1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Body bats, But Joseph's gotten. 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 2: More all the small things true care, truth brings. I'll 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 2: take one lift your ride, best trip always. I know 4 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: you'll be at my show, watching, waiting, commiserating. That's the 5 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: opening line from a Blink one e two song that 6 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: came out many years ago. Now, obviously this deals with 7 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 2: an individual's love life. But there is truth in here, 8 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: particularly as it applies to forensics. It is in fact 9 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 2: all of the small things. And I would submit to 10 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 2: you that if you take true care, you will have truth. 11 00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: But sometimes truth doesn't come in them, idiot. Sometimes it 12 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 2: takes a day, a week, a month, or maybe over 13 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 2: sixty years. Today we're going to be speaking about a 14 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 2: case that we have already spoken of. As a matter 15 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 2: of fact, this is a follow up. It's a follow 16 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 2: up involving the rape and murder of a young girl 17 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 2: from way way back in the early sixties. Today, once 18 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 2: again we are going to take up the case of 19 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: Mary Simpson. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybacks. 20 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: Brother Dave. 21 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: You never know what element of any particular case, at 22 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 2: any particular time is going to factor in to the 23 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: solving of a case. And today I've got a number 24 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: I want to give you. Okay, this is one of 25 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 2: those numbers where to say that it's mind blowing is 26 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 2: kind of an understatement, because when you think about Mary's 27 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: case that we have previously mentioned, it's one of our 28 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 2: author cases. We knew that she had met a very 29 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: brutal end, but we didn't know who perpetrated her death, right, 30 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: And it was stated at that particular time when we 31 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 2: did that initial episode that all things would be revealed. Well, 32 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: they were revealed, and this number that this involves goes 33 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: back to how those investigators all the way back in 34 00:02:54,880 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: time handled Mary's case with such care that they preserved 35 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 2: the items that would in fact lead back to the solving. 36 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 2: The number I want to give you is zero point 37 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 2: zero three nanograms. Now, to put it in perspective, when 38 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 2: you think about a nanogram, it's obviously part of the 39 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: nanogram is a measurement that's used within the metric system. 40 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: So just to kind of round this out, okay, we 41 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: have milligrams. People are familiar with milligrams as they apply 42 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: to medications that you might take, and a milligram is 43 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 2: one thousandth of a gram, all right, So below a 44 00:03:55,360 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: milligram is actually a microgram, and so a microgram is 45 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: one millionth of a gram. Dave, a nanogram. A nanogram 46 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: is so tiny, is so tiny, it is one billionth 47 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: of a gram. Okay, now the aforementioned evidence, hold onto 48 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 2: your hat here, because here comes the reveal that they 49 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: used in order to find the identity of Little Mary's 50 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: killer was zero point zero three nanograms. It's an astronomical number. 51 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: That's all of the biological evidence that they had remaining 52 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 2: after years of testing. And it's almost like it's almost 53 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: like trying to time the moon launch. You know, you 54 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 2: have to be very exacting, very precise if you want 55 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 2: to make sure that your astronauts get there. Uh, there's 56 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: other calculations that we can do as as as as 57 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: an example, so. 58 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 3: I think nanogram was when my granny made me, you know, 59 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 3: a banana pie, you know. 60 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, this is so this is when Mary 61 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: and we had already talked about this when Mary was 62 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 2: brutally brutally murders Joe. 63 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 3: Is that we said when we were doing the show, Yeah, 64 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 3: that we knew it had been solved, which is why 65 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 3: we did the show. But the Almira police were not 66 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 3: ready to release the name of the individual. Yeah, but 67 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 3: they had set a time for it, and at the 68 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 3: time you and I thought, well, we will do an update. 69 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 3: I'll put an I'll put an asterisk on the show 70 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 3: and say here's your update, here's the guy that did it. 71 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 3: But when that update came, it was so significant Joe 72 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 3: reaches out and said, day, we need to do an 73 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 3: update show. That's why we're doing this is to just 74 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 3: add an asterisk and put a name next to it. 75 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 3: Was not enough to do an update this case. This 76 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 3: young little girl deserved more, She deserved better and this criminal, Joe, 77 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 3: I'm going to ask you one very simple question before 78 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 3: you go and tell us everything else. He was the 79 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 3: suspect passing through or did he live in Elmira? 80 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: He lived there. 81 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:46,559 Speaker 2: He lived there, within probably five miles of Mary's home. 82 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: Wow. 83 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 2: You know it's kind of rote to say, but you 84 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 2: know there are demons among us, hiding night, Yeah, hiding 85 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 2: in playing sight. This case actually kind of out of 86 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: all the ones that we've recently done. I thought about 87 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 2: this twelve year old girl that was found out there 88 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 2: in this kind of forested area and left, and it 89 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:14,239 Speaker 2: really pricked my heart. 90 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 3: Man. 91 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: I mean it was and it had been going on, 92 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 2: you know, for sixty one years. I think in Mary's case, 93 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: she has a sister who is up up in age and. 94 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: Older than Mary name and Mary. 95 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, me and brother Dave, we we 96 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 2: want to honor the dead, We want to keep we 97 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: want to breathe life into these lives that have been 98 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: led and that these people and families have been robbed of. 99 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: And you know, you get a case like Mary, brother, 100 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: they ain't ain't too many people left, man, man, you know, 101 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 2: and how many more are there out there there like this, you. 102 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 3: Know, and the city Elmira worked on it. They never 103 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 3: let this case. 104 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: They never ever did. 105 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 3: They held on and I understand why it's so close. 106 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: It is a big time Joe come. 107 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: On, yeah, I know. And a big tip of the 108 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: cap to Elmira on this. And they're chief of police, 109 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 2: oh my lord boy, just to push through with this. 110 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 2: But yeah, so what we understand is that and I 111 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: found this kind of interesting when they collected they saved 112 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 2: Mary's dress that she had on and her underwear and Dave, 113 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: they actually knew enough to put them in the freezer. 114 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 2: Oh wow, point in time. 115 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the first time you've actually said that out loud. 116 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: That's the first time. Yeah, And so I don't know 117 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 2: how it was packaged. I'm assuming it was probably which 118 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 2: is still kind of the the standard. Maybe packaged in 119 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: brown paper bag and sealed, placed into a freezer of 120 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: some kind, and it had to be transferred. Over the years, 121 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 2: you know, things will break down, but they maintained the integrity. 122 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: And that's something we talk a lot about in forensics, 123 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: the integrity of scenes and the integrity of evidence. And 124 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: I don't know, there's been a lot of cases lately 125 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 2: that shall remain unnamed where I have been kind of 126 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: shredded over by virtue of what I'm seeing as far 127 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 2: as forensic practice out there, and I say that I'm 128 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 2: going to use the negative to teach my kids with 129 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 2: at Jack State, Dave, this is one of those cases 130 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: where I would hold this up as a positive case 131 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 2: doing all the right things, because you know, investigators are 132 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: dead and gone, dead and gone. Man. You know some 133 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 2: guy that may have been thirty and sixties, you know, 134 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 2: in the early sixties or forty working as a detective 135 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: and investigator, there's a high probability he's no longer with us. 136 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:10,599 Speaker 1: But those key. 137 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 3: Cop at twenty two years old in nineteen sixty. It 138 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 3: would be in his eighties now. 139 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're you're absolutely right. And it wouldn't have 140 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 2: been a rookie cop working this. It would have been, 141 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 2: probably by their measure, a seasoned investigator up there in 142 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 2: Elmira and New York. But you know, it's isn't it 143 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 2: interesting how it kind of echoes through Tom the steps 144 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: that you take back during that period of time, even 145 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 2: though you were shy of the you know, of the technology, 146 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: you didn't have it, but you plug into it and 147 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 2: all of that work. You know, what a great legacy 148 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 2: to leave behind. You know, there's that old story and 149 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 2: I don't know if this is true or not. Maybe 150 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:55,599 Speaker 2: you can validate this for me. Did they actually decapitate 151 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: Disney when he died and Crouch anically froze his body? 152 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: Is that real? I'd heard that about. 153 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 2: Ted Williams too, And you know they wanted in order 154 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 2: so that the science could catch up with the body, 155 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 2: you know. And I don't know if those stories are 156 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: true or not. I've heard them mentioned over the years, 157 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 2: but this is one of those things where brother science 158 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: did in fact catch up. It caught up with this 159 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 2: case of Mary Mary Simpson. But the beauty part is 160 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 2: it caught up with the perpetrator as well. Unfortunately he 161 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: doesn't get to pay the price, at least in this life. Dave, 162 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 2: let's step back just a second, because you know, I'm 163 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 2: assuming that everybody has heard the story, but there's probably 164 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 2: people that haven't. I think that it would be really 165 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 2: good for our friends to, you know, let's revisit, you know, 166 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 2: kind of what we know about what happened with Mary 167 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 2: leading up to, you know, ultimately the discovery of her remains. 168 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 3: Mary Simpson was twelve years old and she was walking 169 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 3: home from her grandmother's house. Now, this is one of 170 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 3: those stories, Joe, that when you and I were talking 171 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 3: about it, you realize there are parts of a story 172 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 3: that get told early that aren't necessarily as accurate as 173 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 3: the story you hear later, and they kind of get 174 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 3: blurred together. And this is a story similar to that, 175 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 3: but in every telling of the tale, twelve year old 176 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 3: Mary Simpson was walking from her relatives home to her 177 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 3: own home, all right, she was, And we're talking about Elmira, 178 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 3: And in Elmira, New York, this is an area near 179 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 3: the Pennsylvania state border, and it's not an urban jungle. 180 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 3: It's a very country area and a very small area 181 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 3: in that everybody pretty much knows one another. So walking 182 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 3: down the street in nineteen sixty four not an uncommon occurrence. 183 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 3: As twelve year old Mary was walking near East Market 184 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 3: and Harriet Streets in Elmira, New York. She didn't return 185 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 3: to her home that evening and her father reports her missing. 186 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 3: Immediately searches began. They didn't begin with a call to 187 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 3: the police. They were all they being family and friends, 188 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 3: were already searching for Mary the minute she didn't come home. 189 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 3: Minute it was realized, Hey, she should already be here. 190 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 3: Let's retrace her footstep. She's not here, she's not there, 191 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 3: let's look. I think they looked for three hours before 192 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,839 Speaker 3: they actually notified the police, and by the time they did, 193 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 3: everybody in town pretty much knew we got a twelve 194 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 3: year old missing. We had something like that happen here 195 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 3: and where I live in a very small area as well. 196 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 3: And the same thing happened a couple of weeks ago 197 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 3: while Brailer was at wrestling practice. Hannah called and she said, Dad, 198 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 3: there's a kid missing. And I'm like how old? She 199 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 3: was like eight, you know, And so I'm not kidding. 200 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 3: She finds out about it at practice at the high school. 201 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 3: I go there fifteen minutes later, and within thirty minutes 202 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 3: people are fanned out looking okay, And by the time 203 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 3: police were called, which was only about an hour later, 204 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 3: maybe maybe not even that long, we found a little 205 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 3: boy okay, and thankfully he wasn't taken off. He really 206 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 3: was lost. He is a a seven eight year old 207 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 3: boy who actually did walk away following a dog. And anyway, 208 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 3: I say that because that's kind of what I thought 209 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 3: of with this story. They were already really looking. Family friends, 210 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 3: people are getting involved before they actually say we can't 211 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 3: find here, call the police, and the police come in 212 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 3: and we're talking ten o'clock at night. They start looking, 213 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 3: they don't stop looking. What we did find out in 214 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 3: investigating this story is that this was a town turned 215 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 3: upside down looking for twelve year old Mary Simpson because 216 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 3: she vanished. 217 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: Mary's body was discovered. 218 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: Can you imagine stuff like this. It doesn't happen, right, 219 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: you know, we think about it. You know you were 220 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 2: mentioning this child that went missing near where you live, right, Well, yeah, 221 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 2: I mean it does happen. Of course, that had a 222 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 2: very happy ending. But yeah, dude, back in the sixties 223 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 2: like this, in the early sixties, it just it didn't happen, 224 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 2: do you remember. I mean people talk about this. You 225 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 2: had accountability. See how I canna say this? There was 226 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 2: There was neighborhood accountability with kids. You know, if you 227 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,200 Speaker 2: were doing something wrong out in the street, somebody, one 228 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 2: of your neighbors would come out and chastise you for 229 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: it and say I'm going to tell your mom, I'm 230 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: going to or grab you by the wrist and drag 231 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 2: you home and say guess what I saw them doing. 232 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 2: And it wasn't a matter of like the parents saying, 233 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 2: don't you put your hands on my kid. You know, 234 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 2: they'd look at their kid and say, mssus Smith said 235 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 2: you were doing something? 236 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: What were you doing? You know like that. It was 237 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: a different world, dude, it really was. 238 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 3: I'm so glad you brought that up, because back then 239 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 3: your neighbor could beat you if you were wrong. You know. Yeah, now, 240 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 3: well now it doesn't happen so and some things are good, 241 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 3: some things are bad. But in that I'm so glad 242 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,479 Speaker 3: you pointed out because there was an accountability that everybody 243 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 3: felt involved and got involved and now that we know 244 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 3: what actually happened, I wonder if the purp actually got 245 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 3: out there and helped. 246 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: Look, Oh my gosh, now think about that. 247 00:16:59,280 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 248 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 3: Mary's Simpson's body was found after four days, and she 249 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 3: was discovered in a wooded area near Combs Hill Road 250 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 3: in Southport by the Way. Until recently, I hadn't given 251 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 3: out names of streets and things like that when we 252 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 3: do stories, because if you're not from the area, it 253 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 3: doesn't mean a lot. But you know, I have found 254 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 3: myself using Google Earth and other map things to look 255 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 3: and I did with this particular story. I wanted to 256 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 3: know what does it look like now, because if it's 257 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,239 Speaker 3: rustic now, if it's still countryfiede now you know it 258 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 3: was that way then yes, And that's why I said 259 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 3: at the very beginning, Joe, this was a country area, 260 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 3: very rural. But four days and when they did find her, 261 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 3: her remains have been partially concealed under debris and large stones. 262 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 3: Investigators determined she had been sexually assaulted and strangled. Her 263 00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 3: mouth had been stuffed with twigs and dirt, and I wondered, Joe, 264 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 3: if the stuffing of the twigs and the dirt was 265 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 3: significant psychologically or would it have destroyed evidence left behind. 266 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 2: I'm so glad you asked that question because it popped 267 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: into my mind just a moment ago. I don't recall 268 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 2: ever having had a case where I've had cases where 269 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 2: people have had debris in their mouth and its primarily 270 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:30,400 Speaker 2: happens with drowning, but in a homicide, I don't recall 271 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 2: ever having had this. And to your point, I think 272 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 2: there's a couple of ways to look at this. First off, 273 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 2: it goes to a lack of preparedness on the part 274 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 2: of the individual that was facilitating this, and maybe panic 275 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 2: set in. So you know, just like we talk about 276 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 2: weapons of opportunity, and I think that you could use 277 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 2: something like this in order to muffle sound, and that is, 278 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 2: you know, an object or items that are opportunistic on 279 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 2: the part of this individual because he's trying to quiet 280 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: her down. I can only imagine she did not go willingly. 281 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 2: Investigators are now speculating, I think, and I'd come across 282 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 2: this bit that she was either snatched or lured into 283 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 2: a vehicle to facilitate the distance where she wound up. 284 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 2: That this is not something that and it's not a 285 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 2: huge distance. Don't get me wrong because I know you 286 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 2: were talking about geography, but they really think that she 287 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 2: had been in a vehicle, and I found that that 288 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 2: quite compelling. But here here's something else too, Dave. We 289 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 2: talk about convenience, but here's another part this could also 290 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 2: be there's this is kind of it lists into this 291 00:19:55,240 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 2: area of utter humiliation where you're controlling somebody, you're actually 292 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 2: stuffing dirt into their mouth. This little, precious twelve year 293 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 2: old girl, so very innocent, you know, had you know, 294 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 2: gone to grandma's house. I was on our way to 295 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 2: Grandma's house, and you know, she's there in her little 296 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 2: skirt and it's it's cold out too. You know, this 297 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 2: was not in the warmest time of the year, you 298 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 2: know when this occurred. I wonder what other kind of 299 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 2: clothing items that she had and what became of those. 300 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 2: But the brutality of this, and another piece that I 301 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 2: found out, Dave, and this was really striking to me. 302 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 2: Apparently the area where she was found was locally known 303 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: as a lover's lane. I know, right, And listen, you know, 304 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: back in my younger days, we all knew where to 305 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 2: go to watch the quote unquote submarine races. Right, You've 306 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 2: heard that term before, you know, and everybody he was 307 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: aware of that, and the community would be aware of it. 308 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: But Tave didn't it. They didn't make it out there 309 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 2: in their search as someone else other than the search 310 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 2: party found her. 311 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: Correct. 312 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a dad and his sons that were 313 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 3: out hunting or out for a hike, I think, yeah, yeah, 314 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 3: and they just kind of came across this area. That 315 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 3: was what they had not been searched. One thing I 316 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 3: did want to point out, the population of Elmira Joe 317 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 3: was in decline at the time this happened. It was 318 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 3: to give you an idea about forty six thousand people 319 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 3: lived in Elmira in the early sixties spread out. This 320 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 3: is not like a huge, you know, a very small area. 321 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 3: It spread out county wide. But the population was on 322 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 3: in decline in nineteen fifty it was just under fifty thousand. 323 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 3: By nineteen seventy under forty thousand, So there was a 324 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 3: twenty thousand person decline or a ten thousand person and 325 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 3: decline rather from nineteen fifty to nineteen seventy. So that's 326 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 3: why I asked you early on, was the guy they 327 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 3: actually discovered was the suspect. Was he in Elmira at 328 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 3: the time because it's a population in decline. I mean, 329 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 3: new people are not moving in. The people that are 330 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 3: there have been there and that makes it even more 331 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 3: sick when you get down to the nitty gritty. So 332 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 3: you've got an area that's not searched, as you mentioned, 333 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 3: a lover's lane. Those areas are a bit outside of 334 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 3: town because you need privacy. You need an area of darkness, 335 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 3: an area that has some blockage from the road so 336 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 3: you can't just be seen, which is what transpired here. 337 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 3: That's why it took four days and again her body 338 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 3: was not found by people searching for her. Although this 339 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 3: man and his sons could have been hiking to look 340 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 3: for they. 341 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 2: Could have been yeah, yeah, yeah, and they would have 342 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 2: been aware, right yes, I mean you can imagine how 343 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 2: that news would have traveled. And it was some days 344 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 2: later before they found her. But you know, this just 345 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 2: goes to show that even in the smallest of towns, 346 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 2: no matter where you are, evil can visit at any 347 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 2: moment in time. Dave. You remember I had mentioned earlier 348 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 2: about the measurement, right, we think about what was left behind. Well, 349 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 2: it turns out that the sourcing of this biological element 350 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 2: was not blood, it was not saliva. It was ejaculate. 351 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 2: So we're talking about semen that was deposited. And for 352 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 2: people that don't know the average male, and this is 353 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 2: very broad ranging as to volume, the average male is 354 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 2: going to ejaculate anywhere from one point five to five 355 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: grams of ejaculate. Okay, So with her remaining after all 356 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 2: of these years, this is why I'm saying, it's like 357 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 2: threadning a needle. Dude, they had point zero three nanograms 358 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 2: remaining out of that initial deposition. And you know, we 359 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 2: can you know how I talked about the humiliation factor. 360 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 2: You know, with the dirt in the mouth, there is 361 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 2: a high probability that she may have been deceased when 362 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 2: he ejaculated. And this does happen with sexual predators. And again, 363 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 2: and I don't want to be too grotesque here, but 364 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 2: you know, this is body bags. I got to talk 365 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 2: about it. There will be these times where these predators 366 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 2: will stand over a victim and they want to be 367 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 2: able to look them in the eye and perform this 368 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: way before them because it's the ultimate and humiliation. Okay, 369 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 2: what a horrible thing to think about about this precious 370 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 2: young girl that this happens to and this may very 371 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 2: well have occurred after her death. It could I guess 372 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 2: it could have been anti mortem. But he wanted to 373 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 2: shut her up. So what does he do. Well, he 374 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 2: asphyxiates her and he stuffs things in her mouth. And 375 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: you know, I don't know. There's no way that we 376 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: could ever really know if this was this event of 377 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 2: the ejaculation onto her body was anti mortem or post mortem, 378 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 2: but yet there it is, and they were able to 379 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 2: preserve it. Dave. They said that all of these years later, 380 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 2: after it was determined that they the police said that 381 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 2: they knew who this was that did this. They had 382 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 2: a separate release that came just a few days ago. 383 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 2: So while we're back on the air where they said 384 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 2: that they were going to identify and Buddy. 385 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 3: Did they ever Oh my gosh, Joe, when they called 386 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 3: the press conference for February tenth, and we were watching 387 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 3: it as the very beginning, I told you we were 388 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,719 Speaker 3: just going to say, you know, put a tag on here, 389 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 3: here's the name of the guy. But we found out 390 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 3: the man that committed this offense was named Alfred Raymond 391 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 3: Murray Junior. He was thirty two years old at the 392 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 3: time he murdered Mary Simpson, who was twelve. He was 393 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 3: thirty two years old. Then he died in two thousand 394 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 3: and four, so there was no justice. No, But Joe, 395 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 3: I think about this and I'm thinking, he lives forty 396 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 3: years after he murders this twelve year old. He's living 397 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 3: in that community. Every year, they're doing searches, every year, 398 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 3: they're talking about it. This isn't a case that just 399 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 3: went away. It was a real stain for Elmira in 400 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 3: a positive way in that the community took it upon themselves. 401 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 3: We've got to solve this. This is not us, you know, 402 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 3: letting this go is not us. And the law enforcement 403 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 3: there stayed with it. They didn't let it go and 404 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 3: they kept pulling it back out and Joe, it took 405 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 3: a lot of work to solve this case. It wasn't 406 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 3: just getting this little bit of evidence tested. It took 407 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 3: time to pull all of the files together to just 408 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 3: take You've got sixty years of evidence. Every interview that 409 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 3: was conducted has to be digitized, and you know, you 410 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 3: got to put it where it can be searched, where 411 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 3: it can be here. Because everything even though you get 412 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 3: authorm and they can put together you know, the technical aspects, 413 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 3: which is still mind blowing to somebody with my limited mental. 414 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 2: Queen to do a live recording of bodybacks from AUTHRUM headquarters, 415 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 2: that's what we need to do. Wouldn't that be cool? 416 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 3: I don't know if I could speak in those in 417 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 3: the presence of those individuals. I feel like I really. 418 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 2: Ought too, though, But yeah, that's that's what's amazing. I 419 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 2: got to let me let me throw out another another 420 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 2: shout out here. There's a college that, yeah, it's up 421 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 2: there named russell Sage College, and their professor, there's a 422 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 2: professor there that took it upon themselves to get to 423 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 2: get this group of students together, and Dave. They they reviewed. 424 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 2: Now get this if you want to, if you want 425 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 2: to talk about the train not stopping, Dave, there are 426 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 2: six thousand documents related to Mary's homicide, six thousand and 427 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 2: those kids reviewed every bit of that. And you know 428 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 2: that this kind of leads back to not quitting on 429 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: a case. Interestingly enough, with this this uh, this guy, 430 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 2: you know person that has been identified this Murray fellow. 431 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 2: Did you know that the case had been taken up 432 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 2: again in two thousand and three he was at that 433 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 2: moment time dying. He had some kind of terminal illness 434 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 2: and would die a year later. They had taken remember 435 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 2: how the there was a diminishment of the sample, Well, 436 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 2: they had plugged the sample into CODIS, the National date 437 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 2: database for sexual assault, and they came up with zilch. 438 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 2: It wasn't until twoenty twenty two to twenty three in 439 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 2: that time period where this university gets a hold of it. 440 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 2: It breathes new life into Mary's case. And the police 441 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 2: up there were resolute and saying, look, we're going to 442 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 2: get this thing salved. Let's check out author them and 443 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 2: see what they can offer here. And sure enough they 444 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 2: got a bingo on this thing and it came back 445 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 2: through you know, their forensic genetic genealogy that they can do. 446 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 2: But dave one troubling thing that the chief of police 447 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 2: mentioned in this. They believe that Alfred Murray, who is 448 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 2: a father or was a father and a grandfather, was 449 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 2: responsible perhaps for multiple sexual assaults wait for it, on 450 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 2: children over the years. And this had started all the 451 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 2: way back well lord only knows you know what he 452 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 2: had done prior to Mary. Okay, and then how many 453 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 2: of these cases are there? They're not saying at this 454 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 2: point in time, did any of them end up like 455 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 2: Mary's case. One person was opining about the fact that 456 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 2: he may have not have been a a murderer, but 457 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 2: he he was a sexual assaulter and she put up 458 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 2: a fight and he panicked at that moment in time. 459 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 2: And look, no one will ever know, you know, what 460 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 2: the case is, you know, relative to that dynamic that 461 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 2: had occurred, you know, that evening out there on what 462 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 2: they're referring to as a lover's lane area. But you know, 463 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 2: the thread, give me a little license here, this genetic thread, 464 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 2: if you will, has continued own load these many years, 465 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 2: and you know, and it's it's through the efforts at 466 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 2: AUTHORM that the thing was eventually solved. But Authorm was 467 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 2: kind of the finish line here. It was all of 468 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 2: these detectives and technicians and the students and the community 469 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 2: you know, that stayed engaged with using and made sure 470 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 2: that they were going to push it across finish line. 471 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 3: Actually, I'm glad you have brought that up a couple 472 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 3: of different times about the community being involved because they 473 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 3: didn't allow it to continue, you know, or they didn't 474 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 3: allow to go on and just dust it under because 475 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 3: it was unpleasant, But this is what the chief of 476 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 3: police said. His record shows talking about Murray. His record 477 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 3: show's repeated criminal involvement over the decades involving offenses involving children. 478 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 3: While no single incident proves responsibility, this history is consistent 479 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 3: with the forensics findings and circumstances of this homicide, which 480 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 3: means there could have been a number of reports of 481 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 3: attacks on children that were never reported. I think the 482 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 3: shocking thing about this show are there any unsolved homicides 483 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 3: in the areas where Murray traveled, Because he was only 484 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 3: thirty two at the time, and we know that he 485 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 3: lived forty more years after that. I dare say, you 486 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 3: don't start with snatching a child off the street and 487 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 3: kill them within miles of where you snatched them, within 488 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 3: miles of where you live in the community where you're 489 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 3: raising your own children and grand children. That he didn't 490 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 3: do it somewhere else, and do even more before and after. 491 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't go to zero to a thousand. Okay, 492 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 2: this is a progression and what he has left in 493 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 2: his wake. And this guy, Dave on March the nineteenth, 494 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 2: twenty four was actually buried with full military honors. He 495 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 2: was honored flag drape coffin. He was buried in local 496 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:46,720 Speaker 2: cemetery up there, And I think about Mary right now. 497 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 2: I think about her left alone in those woods, would 498 00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 2: brush stacked all over, stones and garbage stuffed in her mouth, 499 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 2: having had the life choked out of her by this guy. 500 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 2: I'm never going to mention his name again, but I will. 501 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:23,760 Speaker 2: I will in fact mention Mary. I'm going to say, 502 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 2: right now, Mary, Teresa Simpson, your case has been solved. 503 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 2: We're going to honor her. And this episode is dedicated 504 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 2: to not just Mary, but to her family, those that 505 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 2: remain in all of those people for all of these 506 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 2: years that have kept this case alive and brought it 507 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 2: to a resolution. There is always hope. There is always 508 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 2: hope in circumstances that seem in fact hopeless, and our 509 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 2: friends at Othram a part of that facilitation. Again, I 510 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,399 Speaker 2: tell you, if there is any way that you can 511 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 2: check out authorm and their website dnasolves dot com, go there, 512 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,280 Speaker 2: visit it, because you know there might be another case 513 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 2: in your little community that's much like Mary's. Okay, unsolved 514 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 2: families with empty chairs everywhere. Go there, take a look 515 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 2: at it, and you can select from any of the 516 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 2: cases on there, and they're not asking for fortune, they 517 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 2: just need a few bucks. Send some bucks that way. 518 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 2: Something that intrigues you, something that is intellectually stimulating, or 519 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,720 Speaker 2: something that tugs at your heart strengths Okay, because Mary 520 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 2: was and is loved, and there's so many people out 521 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 2: there that seem like all hope has faded. In Mary's case, 522 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 2: it didn't, and we're so thankful for that. Here are bodybags. 523 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Bags. 524 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 3: Mhm.