WEBVTT - China Tech In Bear Market, Google's Chrome Future 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:05.720 From Mahart where Innovation, Money and Power Collie in Silicon 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:10.280 Vallet NBN. This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:11.080 ed Luod. 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:27.480 Love live from New York. This is Blue Meg Technology 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:30.680 coming up. Chinese tech stocks enter a bear market by 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.400 do PDD under pressure following earnings results. 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:38.199 Meanwhile, Amazon boosts its stake in Anthropic investing another four 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.800 billion dollars in the open AI arrival, and the CEO 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.320 of Binance discusses bitcoin near one hundred thousand dollars and 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.600 the impact of a Trump White House. 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:49.120 At first we check. 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.120 On these markets that a little bit of just caution 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.120 and sensitive training. On the last day of the week, 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:56.680 we're up a tenth of a percent in fact, and 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:58.680 that's that one hundred is at one point eight percent 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:00.720 for the last five training days, making up some of 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:03.160 last week's sell off. And more broadly, we are up 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:05.600 for the month of November. We're looking at the Golden 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:09.560 Dragon over in China. We've seen the trade be on 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:12.560 the downward trajectory, in particular the Hangsting for example, being 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.280 sold off. And I'm looking at the tech focused US 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.520 ETFs and other areas that you can really track how 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.720 Chinese ets, Chinese tech names are doing. And when you 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:24.760 look at the NaSTA Golden Dragon here, we're off by 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.440 one point eight percent. We want to dig into what's 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.959 the anxiety that's growing in this particular index. Now, technically 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.880 in the bear market, we've got Baidu, you've got PDD 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.240 for example, really on the lower side due to their 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.320 earnings weakness. They sold off in trading in China. We're 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:41.960 off by two point six percent. As you see on 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.399 the US ADRs. These are both US ADRs PDD as well, 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:46.360 off by five percent. 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.960 All of this as we see the PDD. 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.120 For example, pledging to keep investing amid rising competition in 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.320 home and abroad. But it's competition and indeed a Chinese 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:58.680 economy that continues to weaken. We go out to Henry Wren, 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:01.960 who's based in London, just talk us through what seems 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.240 to be ever mounting pressure on Chinese tech names. 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.480 Yeah, so we can start from Baydo and the nation's 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.840 biggest search engine operator. And clearly a tough quarter for 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:15.560 by Do because we saw the revenue declined by three 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.840 percent in a quarter, which was the weakest growth place 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.040 that by the I seen in more than two years. 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.880 And that weakness was clearly driven by its core business 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.080 of online advertising and marketing. That part declined revenue by 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.320 five percent in a quarter, and CEO Robin Lee on 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.000 the earning statement said that the macro has been weak, 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:41.200 while CFO on earnings call acknowledged that despite paging stimulus 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:45.760 measures in late September, consumers are still cautious and advertisers 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.560 spending are still subdued. There are still silver lining though 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.560 AI business. AI and cloud business is still growing revenue 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.800 by double digit but there are some concerns on monetization 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.840 as well, because those AI driven search query are monetized 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.400 at a lower rate and that compare with general queries. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.519 And competition is of course stepping up with other platforms 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:10.919 such as short form video platforms like Going and Quite 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.320 show gaining more user attention as well. 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.480 Let's just talk about the competition also for PDD as well, 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:18.960 and look both of these companies. PDD in particular has 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.000 been trying to make inroads into a US consumer. What 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.680 seems to also be depressing some of these Chinese names 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:26.800 is the fact that perhaps US investors are going to 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.519 be less likely to be able to access these sorts 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.680 of investments you just look at what's happening with the 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:33.880 governor of Texas trying to limit that at the moment, 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:35.720 that seems to a center shiver Daana spine. 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:41.240 Yeah, that indeed hit investor sentiment again for today's trading. 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:45.000 As to PDD, the competition is stepping up. We're talking 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:48.760 about domestic business in terms of JD and Ali Ababa 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.040 keeps on investing as well, but also overseas for a 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:54.920 team move because Amazon is stepping up its game as well. 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.360 So on pdd's earnings call, the company set again for 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:00.200 the second quarter in a role that in the to 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:04.120 step up investments to keep up its game versus competitors. 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.600 And we have been seeing this in the. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:10.640 Results as well, because its margins has been trending downwards 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:14.520 again for this quarter and the company needs to reimburse 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:18.440 more in terms of its merchants, giving merchants more perbs, 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:24.120 reimburse merchants fulfillment costs as well as lowering the technology 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.320 service costs for those merchants as well. So clearly it's 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.760 reimbursing more, the margins is going down and it needs 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.120 to keep up its growth to invest more, and that 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:36.159 has hit investor sentiments Henry. 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.320 Ran with the inside track on what's happening with Chinese 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.200 tech names. Let's broaden out the conversation now. Later it 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:43.760 is with US chief Investment Officer for the Matic Innovation 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.920 Equities at the Alliance Burnsteed, and we want to read 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:51.880 across just generally sentiment around international technology names. But when 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.440 you look at China, I know that within the ETF 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.560 that you particularly manage, there are some companies with exposure 0:04:57.600 --> 0:04:58.400 to China. 0:04:58.440 --> 0:04:59.640 How do you feel about the economy? How do you 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:00.680 feel abut consumer that? 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:06.560 I think it's you know, we do our stock selection 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.560 pretty carefully. We look at whether exposed to rather than 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.320 making a macro call, we look at what they're exposed 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.960 to and then whether they have competitive pressure there. And 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.160 we are our ETF and a lot of stocks were 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.919 investing in broadly speaking, are driven by secular tailwinds. So 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:27.039 regardless of economic outlook cyclically, we believe the selection that 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:31.440 we have, we select them carefully, will enjoy sustained growth tailwinds. 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:33.440 And that's how we do it. One by one really, and. 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:35.840 When you're looking at the one by one tailwinds, how 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.240 much you have to bake in the anxiety around a 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:43.080 headwind of geopolitical tension of a new administration that comes 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.440 in that makes relationships with China ever harder, particularly for 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:46.360 US exporters. 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:51.279 We we certainly are not here to make any predictions 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.040 about political outcome or policy. It's a very difficult thing 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:56.360 for us to do. But rather what we do is 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.640 we do take into consideration in terms of the risk factors, 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.799 you know, if they are exposed, and we certainly will 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:05.200 increase a discount way when we think about the valuation. 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.240 But then again it goes to one by one and 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:09.480 see how they are positioned. 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:15.800 Okay, well, when we're talking therefore more thematically are the 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.000 tailwinds for you still all about artificial intelligence. Whether or 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.120 not a particular chip maker has a large exposure to 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:24.920 selling their very high end chips into China. The tailwinds 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.600 are so strong that at the moment you can still 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:29.599 stick by these names. I know you can't go into 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:31.760 individual selections, but I mean we've all been talking about 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.200 in video this week, for example, when. 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.240 We look at these companies, so what we look is 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.200 the overall exposure. So China is part of it, but 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.640 China is not the sole driver for the growth. So 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:44.640 when we look at it and we can see, you know, 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.200 the immedia, for example, China is part of their business, 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.039 but that's not the majority of their business, and the 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:53.760 other parts of the business is so strong that you know, 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.520 we can do scenario analysis whether or not China goes 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:58.760 up or down, what does it do to the overall 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.120 And then given the applied demand constrain, the constrained environment 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.320 that we're in, they can't easily be allocate to other areas. 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.120 So that's kind of really how we think about its 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:09.840 overall geographic exclosure. 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.840 Let's talk therefore about the hype cycle that we've been in, 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:18.200 the huge valuations baked into certain AI exposed names. You're 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.240 comfortable with that at the moment you feel that the 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:24.760 demand is so strongly indeed supply issues are limited, that 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.320 you can continue to plow money into companies that have 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:28.520 risen so far so fast. 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:30.480 Already, what we. 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:33.440 Think about it is on evaluation front. What we care 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:37.239 is over a long term, can they sustain the profit pool? 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.640 Who has the pricing power? I think that's what ultimately matters. 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.560 In a fast growing phase, some of these companies will 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.320 look very expensive, but we really need to look out 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:48.800 over the ten year Horizon. Are they going to be 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.720 the market leader? Do they have competitive differentiation therefore they 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.040 can garner a bigger part of the profit pool. Not 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.120 every single one of those are going to be a winner, 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:59.920 So it's actually a great time for alpha investors. Frankly, 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:02.560 you get to choose the one that you truly believe in, 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.080 and then there are ones, says Frathi, that we do 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.360 not believe in and we choose now to invest in them. 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.040 Well, you've got a whole array of winners for the 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.520 last year in the ab Global Disruptors and international technology 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.720 portfolios that you manage. Nature Chief Investment officer for Alien Spernstein, 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.080 So it's great to have her expertise and themes here. Meanwhile, 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.760 coming out Amazon boosting its staking a propic. We're sticking 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:37.880 on AI folks. This is Blume Meg Technology. Let's talk 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.600 about anti trust and Google, because the latest is that 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.360 perhaps the tech giant will be forced to unwind it's 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:47.360 partnership with AI startup Anthropic if a federal judge accepts 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.840 the US Justice Department's proposal to resolve this landmark anti 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:54.440 trust case over online search. Let's stick into all of it. 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.559 Adam Kovokovich is with US CEO and founder of the 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.719 Chamber of Progress for more on your expertise that we 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.160 must make clear that used to work for Google, you 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:07.200 really help really think about strategy and lobbying there. And 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.320 now you are CEO one of the key tech lobbies 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:12.199 out there, Adam, so we know which side of the 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.000 equation perhaps you're coming from. But did that take you 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:17.559 by surprise when the UK has already said, look, we're okay, 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.680 we're at ease with this anthropic investment, but then the 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:21.920 US takes a second look. 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.880 Absolutely, and you're absolutely right that I think a loser 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.840 from these remedies would be anthropic. The AAR startup, the 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.160 DOJ wants to unwind Google's investment in anthropic, they want 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.079 to go beyond that. I think it's a testament and 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.959 a symbol of how sweeping these remedies are. And I 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:41.640 think one of the things that's kind of interesting about 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.080 this case is that it was brought by the Trump 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.240 the first Trump administration. I don't think they cared that 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.800 much about the search default deals, but they wanted to 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.000 kind of punish Google. And now I think what you 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.800 see happening now that Biden's Justice Department has won the case. 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:56.600 They don't seem that interested in the core. 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.880 Of the case, which is really search default agreements, and 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.719 instead are treating the as a kind of vehicle or 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.200 pretty broad sweeping changes to Google's business, like unwinding things 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:07.480 like their anthropic investment. 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.720 The main one that Bloomberg had been reporting on and 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.920 then was need substantiated by the DOJ was the setting 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.840 off of Chrome, and many like you said. This doesn't 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.079 seem to be going into the payments that were being 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.800 made to Apple or to Samsung and other Android device 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:24.679 makers to make. 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:26.479 Google Search the default. 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.800 But the fact that Chrome has about sixty percent market 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.320 share when it comes to the browser market, and then 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.160 a lot of people access searched through it, would it 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:37.400 not be a good idea to start peeling off some 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.520 of the ways in which it dominates and search. 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:40.959 Well. 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.559 The key point is that if the Justice Department thought 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.320 that Chrome was a problem, it should have included Chrome. 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:47.520 In its original argument. 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.440 That's the strange part about including it as a remedy. 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.480 The DJ never brought any charges against Google over Chrome. 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.720 They never made any allegation that Google had, you know, 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.720 improperly referenced its search engine in Chrome. Now they're invoking 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:02.880 in the remedy sphase. So I think it's coming out 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:04.720 of left field and the way that judge will reject. 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.600 But Chrome is clearly very valuable for Google as a 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:09.560 way to encourage people to spend time on the Internet. 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:11.959 Good for Google's business, that's clearly true. 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:16.160 But the idea that you know it's valuable to other people, 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:17.880 I just don't think it doesn't have any revenue of 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.880 its own. It's not valuable if it's decoupled from Google's 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:21.520 search results. 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:23.240 Frankly, I just think it's very unlikely. 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.000 I think it's about as likely that Google will be 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.839 forced to sell Chrome as you know Elon musk Doze 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.040 Commission is actually going to make the government more efficient. 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.280 Ah, that's taking us into a completely different avenue, Adam 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:38.640 so another time. But I'm interested more broadly in some 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.240 of the other areas. I mean ones that took perhaps 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.360 people are back was the idea that they'll be forced 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:46.480 to license, sell off, at least hand over their data, 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.600 unique data to other rivals, even as large a rival 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.600 as Microsoft when it comes to the world of search. 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:57.520 How technically feasible is that and ultimately how pro competition 0:11:57.920 --> 0:11:58.959 is that sort of an outcome. 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.240 Yeah, well, I think technically technical feasibility that with the 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.400 Justice Department said as there should be a technical committee 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.920 that really has full access to Google's a source code. 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:10.559 And that's obviously very invasive. 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:13.760 You're absolutely right that things like spinning off Chrome got 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.079 a lot of attention. But if you bear a look 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.480 in the details that this filing, you're absolutely right. They're 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.559 proposing that Google have to make its secret sauce algorithms 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:27.560 available to rivals, share its users data with rival search engines, 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:29.880 including by the way, foreign search engines like Baydoo and 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.320 the Index. There actually is a provision in there that 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:36.360 would make Google pay for consumers to switch to consume 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.400 competing search engines, which is like PEPSI paying you know, 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.120 their customers to try coke. It would make them fun 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.640 paid advertising campaigns for rivals, like being induct dot Go. 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.440 And I think that, you know, all these extreme remedies, 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:50.200 I don't think. I think they would not only deter 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:53.600 Google from continuing to invest in search innovations if they 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.640 have to share everything. But they're so extreme and they're 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.040 so beyond the judges findings. They're a bit like prescribing 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:03.800 and amputation just because the patient has a hangnail. 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:09.240 The arguments you make are very clear, and we therefore 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.560 try and play devil's advocate here me as the consumer, 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.280 would any of this be good for me as a consumer? 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.520 If indeed Google is forced to open up any parts 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:23.839 of the ideas coming from the DOJ remedy. 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.120 Well, I think the vast majority of people just want 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.920 their search engines to work right, and they want their 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.280 search engines to answer questions for them. 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:35.640 And you know, one of the things I think is 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:36.319 interesting is that. 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.400 Obviously the AI layer that people that Google's building into 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:41.439 its search engine is a direct response to the success 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.800 of things like chat GPT. We saw a news report 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.600 yesterday that OpenAI was going to probably build its own browser. 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.400 But these remedies would take direct aim at there. 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.200 They wouldn't allow Googled, for example, to put in AI 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.719 generated results into its search results, and so I do 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:57.960 think that would be a pre direct violation of the 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:02.439 consumer Welfare Standard, which has really been kind of the 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:04.600 load star for anti trust enforcement. 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.839 I conceive that all of these remedies would be great. 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.720 For Microsoft and great for Duck Duck Go, But you know, 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.040 that's just not the way we historically do anti trust 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:15.480 enforcement in the US. 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:17.960 Many had felt that actually there had been a slight 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.800 changing and viewpoint of how you do anti trust in 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:25.280 the US, particularly under Lena Kahan and under now the 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.640 current DOJ. What's notable, though, is this is going to change. 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.120 We've got a new administration coming in in twenty twenty five, 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.720 and it's likelihood is that Jonathan Canter, who's been leading 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.080 the charge on this particular case, hands over the rains. 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:37.720 Do you think anything changes on the back of that. 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.280 As you mentioned, it was the Trump administration that first 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:41.040 brought this case. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.640 That's right, and I think, frankly, the fact that Jonathan 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.200 Canter is on its way out is probably the main 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.320 reason why these remedies are so sweeping. He's not going 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.760 to be around for the trial about the remedies next year. 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.000 A lot of the attorneys who've been prosecuting the case are, 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.880 you know, shopping their resumes around Washington. Trump's gonna have 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.360 a goal turnover in agencies like the DOJ, so cantor 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.280 doesn't have to own what happens next, and I think 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.600 that's why he swung for the fences. I do think 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.840 it's an open question about what the Trump administration will do. 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.880 Trump named Pam Bondi, a former Attorney General of Florida, 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.520 as his next attorney general. She will then decide who 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.560 the head of the Anti Trust. 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.600 Division will be. And there might be slight changes. 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.720 I think that Trump likes having cases a big against 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.600 big tech because frankly, they provide him some kind of 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.120 punishment or leverage over big tech services. But there might 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.680 be changes in how they manage the case, might be 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:39.080 different approaches to how they approach things like remedies. 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.960 Adam Kovakovich, we thank you for the expertise chamber of 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:46.240 a progress CEO on all things Google. Meanwhile, we're just 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.440 talking about how Google might have to unwind its anthropic 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.800 and investment. Well, another company is piling in there, Amazon 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.840 pumping an additional four billion dollars in its stake and 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.120 anthropic and we know that it's the builder of Claude 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.240 generative artificial intelligence software, where a key competitor to open 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.160 ai and Bloembg's Matt Day is here with more and Matt. 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.480 When you saw this extra enormous set of money going 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:08.680 towards anthropic. 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.280 What did you think, Well, we knew Anthropic was raising money, 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.200 but This really underlines for us that Amazon has gone 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.760 full bear hug on Nthropic. You know, much like Microsoft 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:18.600 pumped a ton of money to Open Ai to get 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.840 some exclusive rights and sort of preferred cloud provider for 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.720 chat GPT, Amazon has decided that, you know, hey, cloud 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.320 is a good enough product that if they can, you know, 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.720 seek to tie it to their platform, they're gonna They're 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:31.160 going to do that. 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.520 How exclusive, therefore will Anthropic be? 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.000 We know that actually Google currently has like an investment 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.560 that it's hoping to keep in it, so Whennthropic can. 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.760 Still run on other clouds, it's not like the Microsoft 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.240 open A ideal in that regard. But one exclusive bit 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.400 that Amazon has been pushing for is Anthropic using more 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.560 of Amazon's hardware to train its models. Right, This is 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.960 a key differentiator Amazon thinks for its cloud in the 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:56.040 long term. They think, if Anthropic can help them make 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:57.920 a really good AI chip, then you know, that's just 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.120 another advantage for a cloud platform that already brings and 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:01.680 a ton of money for Amazon. 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.240 And they're spending a ton of money. Matt Day, great 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:14.720 to have you, thank you time now for talking tech. 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.679 First up, Paramount is promising a one million dollar retention 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.720 bonus to its head of government relations and of human resources. 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.600 That's all depending on the merger with Skydance. Just last month, 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.920 Paramount announced that it's three co CEOs will receive three 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.680 million dollars in cash bonuses even if they no longer 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.720 are with the company. Plus DirecTV has notified EchoStar that 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.760 it intends to terminate this acquisition of Dish Network. 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.200 This is after the bondholders failed. 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.399 To consent to a key dead exchange, effectively killing the 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.320 deal that would have created the largest PATV provider in 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.560 the United States. And Apple is readying to revamp Siri now. 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:50.760 According to sources, the tech giant is developing a more 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.160 conversational version of its digital assistant BACLY, aiming to catch 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.760 up with rivals like Opening Eyes Chat GPT. The new 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.400 sery is said to use more advanced lllms and will 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:03.720 have the ability to handle more sophisticated requests. Now talking 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:08.119 of AI, AI leaders and safety institutes and gathered in 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.520 San Francisco this week to discuss the impact of artificial 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:16.639 intelligence on society, but one looming topic dominated conversations, what 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.840 will policy look like under a second Trump administration. For 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.000 more bloom Sharene Gafari joins US now and you were 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.879 there alongside was it? Sexutreen, Romando and all awful lot 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:33.000 of heads of various AI safety networks and cummings together, 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:37.440 What are we currently thinking about that maybe the US 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:39.960 version of AI safety is dismantled in some. 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.320 Way, That's right. 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:44.720 So we had a who's who there? 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:50.480 You know, tech leaders like Athropic CEO Dario Armadae, officials 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:53.320 from international countries around the world who have all just 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:57.119 agreed to be part of this international consooratum of different 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.879 AI safety institutes. But the looming question of uncertainty is 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.280 what will happen on the US side to its own 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:07.560 AI safety institute that was leading the talks if there 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:10.719 is a new administration that will take a different approach 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:11.720 to AI policy. 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.439 Elizabeth Kelly currently heading up that institute, What did she 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.760 think of the future of AI innovation and guard rails 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.000 under our next administration? 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:25.720 Right, So, she really made the case that despite the 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.840 fact that incoming President Trump has said that he will 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.320 repeal the or his party rather platform has said it 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:37.320 will repeal the Biden Executive Order on AI, Elizabeth Kelly 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:39.000 really made the case to me in an interview on 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.720 the sidelines of the conference, that this Safety Institute should 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.639 not be seen as a politicized group, that it is 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:52.040 part of a nonpartisan, larger government institute called NIST, which 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.160 is all about evaluating and making safety standards. And they've 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.280 long been doing this for things like facial recognition technology, 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.720 for example, measuring how good it is and what the 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.640 risks are. And so she's saying that, look, no matter 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:07.479 who's president, we're happy to be continuing our work as 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.160 we have. And you know, that's sort of the best 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.600 case scenarios that this work continues. But the big question 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.280 is that of incoming President Trump does try to take 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.440 a different approach, repeals the EO. Will we see change 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:19.640 with this institute as well? 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:24.399 How disconcerting is it for AI companies trying to build 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:26.800 in what feels like a bit of a vacuum of direction, 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.200