Speaker 1: Today's guests may be most recognizable in the white tail space.
Speaker 1: He grew up in the Bluff Country of southeast Minnesota,
Speaker 1: where he became obsessed with everything outdoors. He spent all
Speaker 1: of his extra time bass fishing, turkey hunting, upland hunting,
Speaker 1: and of course, deer hunting. Tony Peterson took his love
Speaker 1: of deer hunting and eventually turned it into an outdoor
Speaker 1: writing career, a profession he kicked off in his mid
Speaker 1: twenties after becoming the associate editor for Peterson's Bonehunting magazine. Later,
Speaker 1: he earned the role of equipment editor for Bonhuert Magazine
Speaker 1: and Bowhunter TV. In more recent years, Tony joined up
Speaker 1: with me Eater to produce content including articles and podcasts
Speaker 1: under the Wired to Hunt brand, as well as shows
Speaker 1: like Back forty and One Week in November. Listeners will
Speaker 1: likely know of Tony if they are into white to hunting.
Speaker 1: Public land is He was one of the pioneers that
Speaker 1: thrived at killing big bucks on public ground. He has
Speaker 1: aired a pilot Good Bucks on Public Ground in multiple
Speaker 1: states and is considered one of the nation's top authorities
Speaker 1: on hunting pressured gear. But that's not why we have
Speaker 1: him here today. He also happens to be one hell
Speaker 1: of a turkey hunter with countless shotgun and boat tip
Speaker 1: turkeys do his credit. He's a wealth of knowledge on
Speaker 1: calling long beards, especially long beards that have received a
Speaker 1: lot of hunting pressure, which is what we're going to
Speaker 1: get into today. Welcome to the show, Tony.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Man.
Speaker 1: How's everything going.
Speaker 2: It's pretty good. It's pretty good.
Speaker 3: Getting ready for turkey season, so that's always exciting.
Speaker 1: How's the spring shaping up where you're at.
Speaker 3: You know it's coming in real slow, but we're getting
Speaker 3: there now. And you know, my focus right away is
Speaker 3: always to get my little girls. I have twin eleven
Speaker 3: year old girls and their turkey hunting fools, and so
Speaker 3: we scout and get ready for them hard, and then
Speaker 3: once they fill their tags, then I start to play
Speaker 3: around a little bit. But that's always my focus.
Speaker 1: Now, do you guys have a youth season there where
Speaker 1: you're at for the girls?
Speaker 3: You know, in Minnesota, we don't. They just they get
Speaker 3: to hunt the whole six weeks of the season. But
Speaker 3: I do take them over to Wisconsin where they have
Speaker 3: a weekend.
Speaker 1: That's a youth so nice. So Wisconsin and Minnesota this year.
Speaker 1: You have more on the docket for turkey hunts this year,
Speaker 1: just those two states.
Speaker 3: For the girls, those two states myself too, and then
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna head down to Nebraska. And I
Speaker 3: also drew an Iowa tag this year, so I got
Speaker 3: a few tags.
Speaker 1: You'll be busy. Nice, nice. So yeah, it sounds like
Speaker 1: diehard deer hunter, but just as much.
Speaker 3: A turkey hunter is deer absolutely, and it doesn't I
Speaker 3: don't you know, I'm going down to Iowa. I'm hunting
Speaker 3: public land down there. I'll be scouting deer, you know,
Speaker 3: the Nebraska thing. I'll be scouting deer. So it's it's
Speaker 3: always yeah, you know, the primary focus is, you know,
Speaker 3: kill a few long beards, but it's time in the
Speaker 3: woods man like I just love it. And I'm always
Speaker 3: checking out new spots and turkey seasons. So good for
Speaker 3: you know, kind of taking a flyer weekend and going
Speaker 3: somewhere because you never know you might find something worth
Speaker 3: going to deer hunt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love this Kansas piece. We always talk
Speaker 1: about going there to the turkey hunt is just as
Speaker 1: much fun, you know, getting ready for the fall deer
Speaker 1: hunt if I'm lucky enough to grab a tag, because
Speaker 1: you get to go into some areas that he won't
Speaker 1: let you in, you know, during during deer season, so
Speaker 1: you get to check some things out and learn the
Speaker 1: lay of the land and you know, maybe maybe give
Speaker 1: you some tips on where you're gonna you know, set
Speaker 1: a stand or where you should set a stand. So
Speaker 1: now I really like it. But uh yeah, now I'm
Speaker 1: excited for spring. Got Kansas, I've got Washington and then Idaho.
Speaker 2: As well, so I'll have nice yeah, nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like every episode, we're going to start with some
Speaker 1: listener questions, and if you have questions for my guests
Speaker 1: or for myself, please email them to us at ct
Speaker 1: D at phelpsgame Calls dot com or shoot us a
Speaker 1: social message or anything like that and we'll try to
Speaker 1: get them on here. So the first question for you today, Tony,
Speaker 1: is defining a roose tree. We got a question a
Speaker 1: guy was wanting to know. You know, there's trees everywhere
Speaker 1: in the woods. Yeah, how do you define a roost
Speaker 1: tree or what makes an ideal group of roost trees?
Speaker 3: You know, that really depends what part of the season
Speaker 3: you're looking for it. You know, if it's an early
Speaker 3: season thing. You'll find that true turkey roost where it's
Speaker 3: it's someplace you know, it's gonna have big oaks or
Speaker 3: some kind of big tree, and it's gonna have some
Speaker 3: kind of terrain advantage, you know, where they can fly off,
Speaker 3: where they can tuck away from the wind. And then
Speaker 3: as the season progresses and it gets a lot nicer
Speaker 3: out that survival. You know, they're not worried about freezing
Speaker 3: to death up there. They don't need as much protection,
Speaker 3: and so they'll spread out. But you know, I mean
Speaker 3: always it's droppings, it's scouting is huge, you know, looking
Speaker 3: for those those spots. And then you know, I always
Speaker 3: tell people one thing you notice especially and you know,
Speaker 3: maybe like the first half of your season, you know,
Speaker 3: if you have a roost, even if it gets blown out,
Speaker 3: what you'll see those birds do, especially when they're flocked up,
Speaker 3: is if you have nasty weather come in, like we
Speaker 3: get a lot of fronts in the spring in different places,
Speaker 3: those birds are going to roost somewhere where there's a
Speaker 3: there's a real advantage to getting out of the wind.
Speaker 3: And so you think, you know, you get a crazy
Speaker 3: east wind or something and you're like, oh, they're going
Speaker 3: to be roosted where they're always roosted. And then you
Speaker 3: go there and that wind's blowing that up. They're gonna
Speaker 3: be somewhere else and you can almost call your shots.
Speaker 3: You can pull up on X and look at it
Speaker 3: and go, Okay, they could tuck in here and be
Speaker 3: out of that wind all night long.
Speaker 2: You'll find that. You mean, you see that in so
Speaker 2: many places.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that's I mean, you don't want to
Speaker 1: be too obvious, but you know, you got your scat,
Speaker 1: you got your feathers in those areas, you know, and
Speaker 1: the best way is you mentioned, is just to scout it,
Speaker 1: you know, locate. You know, we we learn of most
Speaker 1: of our roost areas just by locating at nighttime, you know,
Speaker 1: getting ready, and they're like, oh, they're in these same
Speaker 1: areas time after time. And it's different though, even different subspecies.
Speaker 1: And you go to the Midwest and if you're hunting Easterns,
Speaker 1: they seem to want to come back to a set
Speaker 1: group of trees as long as it checks all the box,
Speaker 1: you know, out of the wind. A lot of times
Speaker 1: those roost trees are just off of a ridge line.
Speaker 1: They can walk up the ridge, lion or walk and
Speaker 1: then they can pitch down into the tree without having
Speaker 1: to do a bunch of like laborersts flying up and
Speaker 1: just being off of that ridge, as you had mentioned,
Speaker 1: keeps them out of the wind. So big heavy limbs,
Speaker 1: they don't like to be shook around. So it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's I guess we're talking about what they
Speaker 1: typically like to be. And they can roost anywhere, right,
Speaker 1: but but typically like to be in those bigger trees,
Speaker 1: bigger you know, oak trees, big limbs, and not getting
Speaker 1: shook around here as much. And then when I go
Speaker 1: to hunt Mariam's round home, those things literally just roost
Speaker 1: where they end up. But similar you know, they're they're
Speaker 1: staying out of the wind, but they they they're they're
Speaker 1: not as likely to come back to that tree night
Speaker 1: after night after night.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen it, you know, Easterns, like you mentioned,
Speaker 3: I've seen rios be real consistent too. But man, it's
Speaker 3: you know, like the first part of it is fine
Speaker 3: in all those droppings and where you're like, yeah, clearly
Speaker 3: they spend some time on that limb and that limb,
Speaker 3: but if you get away to watch them, if you know,
Speaker 3: if you can get out in the morning and listen
Speaker 3: for them whatever, that's great, But if you can watch
Speaker 3: them in the evening approach it, it's so valuable. See
Speaker 3: how see how they actually work their way in and
Speaker 3: then you know, okay, if I if I get in
Speaker 3: there where I would want to set up, they're gonna
Speaker 3: see me because they're going to have a visual advantage
Speaker 3: a lot of times. So being able to watch turkey
Speaker 3: is so huge.
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, So listener question number two. I'm new to
Speaker 1: turkey hunting and I can only take one week off
Speaker 1: to hunt, which there's a little nuance, right. We talked
Speaker 1: a little bit before the podcast because some seasons have
Speaker 1: already been going for over a month, you know down south,
Speaker 1: some of our northern states, a lot of states open
Speaker 1: on like an April fifteenth opener. You know, some youth
Speaker 1: seasons mixed in there. So we'll have to you know,
Speaker 1: take it with a grain of salt. But in your
Speaker 1: opinion kind of what's the best time to be out
Speaker 1: there if you had to pick, like a one week.
Speaker 3: If I'm hunting a place that nobody else can go into,
Speaker 3: give me the first week. If I'm hunting a place
Speaker 3: where you know I might be the third one in line.
Speaker 3: I always try to time it around like a real
Speaker 3: green up, because you know the flocks are going to
Speaker 3: split up. You know, those hens are going to go
Speaker 3: start eating bugs and some fresh greenery, and those times
Speaker 3: are going to follow them, and then if you can
Speaker 3: time it, you know, for years in Minnesota, one of
Speaker 3: my favorite times the hunt was when the walleye opener happened.
Speaker 3: Nobody wanted to you know what I mean. And you
Speaker 3: see that in other states. So there's it's kind of
Speaker 3: Turkey season a lot of times sort of follows the
Speaker 3: deer season, like at least the bow season pattern where
Speaker 3: there's a bunch of activity right away and then it
Speaker 3: kind of dies down and then as the clock starts
Speaker 3: to and toward the end, you'll see people start to
Speaker 3: get back out, and so there's there's usually a middle.
Speaker 2: Ground there that you can find.
Speaker 1: Yep. And I'm similar to you. I I love hunting
Speaker 1: that first week if you had if I had private,
Speaker 1: I'd be out there that first week for sure. You know,
Speaker 1: I think your likelihood of calling those toms in's way better.
Speaker 1: But in Washington, public ground hunting, like we do, you
Speaker 1: get a week of every single chunk of public ground
Speaker 1: is occupied. And then if you go the second even
Speaker 1: into the third week, you're kind of in that hind
Speaker 1: up phase where everything's locked down. Sometimes they won't gobble,
Speaker 1: they won't they just they will not come to a
Speaker 1: call and you so you're kind of fighting that I've
Speaker 1: always liked in Washington, Like May tenth, it's getting pretty
Speaker 1: late in the season, but we're starting to get the
Speaker 1: majority of our hens bread and on eggs all day
Speaker 1: and away from him and so, and that's to be honest,
Speaker 1: no matter what, you know, if you want to kill
Speaker 1: the three or four year old birds, like I've always
Speaker 1: felt like mid May for us in Washington and some
Speaker 1: of your best timing, it's just those birds are lonely
Speaker 1: after nine o'clock and you know you got them all
Speaker 1: to yourself.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's that's a big thing when when you're talking,
Speaker 3: you know, it used to be just like everybody's like, oh,
Speaker 3: I got to kill my bird off the roost, and
Speaker 3: it's like that lunch shift is when those birds go looking,
Speaker 3: and especially when you're talking May.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you might not. You have to push through a
Speaker 1: little bit more. You're not gonna probably as much goblin
Speaker 1: as much action. At times, it's a little things have
Speaker 1: slowed down a little bit. But man, as far as
Speaker 1: like likelihood of harvesting a more mature bird later is good.
Speaker 1: So I guess we didn't really answer that question wholeheartedly.
Speaker 1: But it's just there's always good times to be out there.
Speaker 1: But uh, I don't know, I don't know if there
Speaker 1: is a perfect week to be out there. But yeah,
Speaker 1: like you said, no pressure early for sure. You know,
Speaker 1: we just completed our Washington youth season and guys were
Speaker 1: just moping, you know, they were. It was just great.
Speaker 1: These birds haven't heard calls yet. They're super callable. And
Speaker 1: then you know it's gonna progressively get slower a season.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean that's a that's another good point for
Speaker 3: somebody who's just starting out.
Speaker 2: How confident are you in calling?
Speaker 3: You know, because if you can get out there and
Speaker 3: and really call right away, you get the most birds
Speaker 3: to work with. It haven't been pressured. That's a good
Speaker 3: time to go, but you know you got to you
Speaker 3: gotta have some confidence, you know what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then our last we got
Speaker 1: a third listener question or in our last so a
Speaker 1: new hunter wanted to know consitting sign be effective or productive.
Speaker 1: And once again, I think we need some more information.
Speaker 1: But I'll go ahead and let you answer and we'll
Speaker 1: add on to it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I you know, I only bow hunted turkeys
Speaker 3: for like ten years.
Speaker 2: I kind of went through that phase.
Speaker 3: And you know, when you're committed to a blind and
Speaker 3: an all days sitting, a spot sign is everything, Like
Speaker 3: I want, I want to know they're using a spot
Speaker 3: for some reason. And we're kind of we're kind of
Speaker 3: used to thinking about turkey on it is like just
Speaker 3: get out there, listen for a gobble and go Yeah.
Speaker 3: But you know, unless you have a lot of land
Speaker 3: to roam, like, that's maybe not the best strategy in
Speaker 3: a lot of places. And turkeys are so patternable. I
Speaker 3: mean they it feels like it gets wild, kind of
Speaker 3: like the white tail rut, Like you're like, oh, they're
Speaker 3: just all over the count. No, there's a method to
Speaker 3: their madness. And Tom's are super predictable and so we're hens.
Speaker 3: And so if you've got a place where they're scratching,
Speaker 3: you know, if if they were there today at ten o'clock,
Speaker 3: they're gonna be there.
Speaker 1: Tomorrowlock unless something bold, Yeah, as long as they're not disturbing.
Speaker 3: So I mean, and the thing is, you got to think, okay, well,
Speaker 3: you're the easiest place to find sign is out in
Speaker 3: the open, right, like on the egg fields or whatever.
Speaker 3: And you know that's great, But I look at it
Speaker 3: and go, I want that, but I want to know
Speaker 3: where they're looping through the woods on a circuit where
Speaker 3: they're scratching somewhere that's in the cover that's not so obvious.
Speaker 3: And you start piecing those together and then maybe you've
Speaker 3: scouted those roofs like we talked about. Now you're like, okay,
Speaker 3: I've got places to be, and then you just got
Speaker 3: to give them time.
Speaker 1: Yep. And and it's kind of funny. I never every
Speaker 1: year we go through this progression where I don't relearn
Speaker 1: that until about day three. You try to go in.
Speaker 1: You've tried to force your plan that wherever that bird's
Speaker 1: at and where if you're set up, you're gonna call
Speaker 1: it to them. And then by day three you're like,
Speaker 1: all right, this is obvious to see. You know it
Speaker 1: may work, but it's not working as effectively. Like we
Speaker 1: know the pattern of these birds, let's not force this
Speaker 1: whole call scenario to us. Let's just go and it's
Speaker 1: way more effective. And I'm saying, this is a guy
Speaker 1: that loves to call turkeys and makes a living, you know,
Speaker 1: sell them calls for turkeys, but patterning, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's almost like the ambush style and elk cunning. I'll
Speaker 1: all always say that you're going to be way more
Speaker 1: successful in calling that bowling if he's already doing what
Speaker 1: he wants to do and only has to come a
Speaker 1: little bit, versus like make them do what they don't
Speaker 1: want to do.
Speaker 3: Every animal man, And I mean that's the turkey thing.
Speaker 3: When you're talking about sign and calling, it's a proximity thing,
Speaker 3: you know, just like with elk. You're like, if you're
Speaker 3: one hundred yards away from a bull, he's a hell
Speaker 3: of a lot easier to call in than if you're
Speaker 3: across the canyon. And turkeys are the same way. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they're going to answer you, But if you're where they
Speaker 3: expect turkeys to be and you're you're damn close to
Speaker 3: their route, it's totally different game.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: All right, So that wraps it up for listener questions
Speaker 1: once again, if you have questions of your own for
Speaker 1: me or my guess, please email us at CTD at
Speaker 1: polpsgamecalls dot com. I'm we'll do our best to include them.
Speaker 1: So now we're going to jump into some of my
Speaker 1: questions I had for you, just some conversations, some things
Speaker 1: we haven't really touched on. You know, we can kind
Speaker 1: of get stuck in this red of like regurgitating and
Speaker 1: like just having that circular conversation. There's only so many
Speaker 1: things you can talk about tricky hunting, So we're gonna
Speaker 1: jump into maybe some of the oddities or some stuff
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about on some of the past Tricky episodes.
Speaker 1: So one thing we just kind of mentioned some of
Speaker 1: the things that takes me till day two or three
Speaker 1: to figure out. But every spring you go out and
Speaker 1: you start to you know, you hear your first gobble
Speaker 1: and you're like, shoot, you know, whether you're in eastern Washington,
Speaker 1: where you're in Kansas, how far away was that thing?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Can I go another one hundred yards? Do I need
Speaker 1: to sit down here? It's one of those real difficult
Speaker 1: things to figure out, and there's a lot of uh,
Speaker 1: you know, factors that that factor into to a gobble.
Speaker 1: But do you have any tips for anybody going out there?
Speaker 1: Like how aggressive can you be? How so you know
Speaker 1: what's the best way to gauge that.
Speaker 3: Man, my hearing sucks. I had so many guns and
Speaker 3: guitars in my day. But I'll say this, especially for newbies,
Speaker 3: if they sound close, they're really close. And if they
Speaker 3: sound far away, they might still be close. And so
Speaker 3: I get real cautious because if you go running gun
Speaker 3: and chasing gobbles when they're lighting up, I mean, you're
Speaker 3: gonna learn that you're gonna bump.
Speaker 2: You're gonna bump over that.
Speaker 3: I mean it just and so and sometimes you know,
Speaker 3: especially if you spend It's different for me when I'm
Speaker 3: scouting birds and I'm photographing them because I'm not I
Speaker 3: don't care about getting into kill them. So it's like
Speaker 3: I learn a lot about how far away they are
Speaker 3: and how far they sound because I'm not making an
Speaker 3: hunter mindset. I'm just observing. And man, there's so many
Speaker 3: times where they sound far away and they're just not.
Speaker 3: And so I'm always like, you know, I know everybody
Speaker 3: wants to sprint across the countryside and get seventy five
Speaker 3: yards away and set up, but I always just assume
Speaker 3: they're closer, and I always assume that if I go
Speaker 3: sneaking in on this bird, unless I've got like an
Speaker 3: obvious like if there's a bluff or something and he's
Speaker 3: on top, like they're gonna see me better than I think,
Speaker 3: And even with the woods greened down and everything. So
Speaker 3: I'm I'm pretty cautious that way, and i'd rather especially,
Speaker 3: you know, if they're sounding off and you can throw
Speaker 3: an owl food at him or something, it's like you
Speaker 3: don't have any reason to go rush, and like work
Speaker 3: it out a little bit, and you almost can guarantee
Speaker 3: that if there's a bird goblin at you there, he's
Speaker 3: probably not alone. I mean, you might have run into
Speaker 3: that two year old it's or what like they might
Speaker 3: be alone, but a lot of times they're not. And
Speaker 3: so you're now you're working in on not just.
Speaker 1: Multiple sets of eyes exactly. And one of the things,
Speaker 1: like the biggest eye opener for me is is you're
Speaker 1: working a bird, as you mentioned, But we've I don't
Speaker 1: know if everybody's been there, but I've been there multiple
Speaker 1: times where we're on the edge of a field and
Speaker 1: there's a bird out there two hundred yards away, and
Speaker 1: that thing sounds if he gobbles away from me and
Speaker 1: then turns and gobbles at me, like I would have
Speaker 1: just lost all kinds of money on on how far
Speaker 1: I thought he was. But it's literally, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: a three x magnitude and difference on what I thought
Speaker 1: that distance was. Just if he turns and gobbles the
Speaker 1: other way versus gobbles towards me. So I've already got
Speaker 1: that against me. Now we've got if he did that
Speaker 1: same thing and the wind was at his back versus
Speaker 1: in his face. You know, what's the wind doing where
Speaker 1: I'm at? You've got fooliage. You know, early in the
Speaker 1: spring gobbles are going to travel a little bit farther
Speaker 1: is it starts to really green up and get thick.
Speaker 1: And now, you know, so all these things play into
Speaker 1: But I think you hit the nail on the head
Speaker 1: earlier with your comment of you just always play it
Speaker 1: a little more cautious. There's if he's gobbling, he's obviously
Speaker 1: still there, and as long as he's still there, you
Speaker 1: have a chance. Versus if you go and bump him
Speaker 1: and spook him, you're now dealing with a you know,
Speaker 1: a buggered up bird, real hard to deal with at
Speaker 1: that point, once him or his hens get you know, spooked,
Speaker 1: it's it's gonna be tough.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean I think in that situation too,
Speaker 3: a lot of people talk themselves into going because they'll
Speaker 3: have that bird that'll they'll hit him every time, but
Speaker 3: he's not coming and they get impatient, and man, I mean,
Speaker 3: you can kill him that way. But I always look
Speaker 3: at that, I'm like, if I have a wild turkey
Speaker 3: talking to me, I'm doing just fine. And you know
Speaker 3: how you know, it's kind of like elk, Like you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes there's just one that slips in from somewhere else
Speaker 3: or suddenly they just come in. And so if you've
Speaker 3: got one and you're like, oh, he sounds like he's
Speaker 3: two hundred two hundred fifty yards away, I'm like, man,
Speaker 3: if he's calling to me, unless I have a real
Speaker 3: terrain advantage to get closer, I'm like, I'm just gonna
Speaker 3: work him until he makes the decision.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then you start to throw in ridges and
Speaker 1: like open ridge tops, and you know, up and down
Speaker 1: that turkey's moving or he turns around, it just it
Speaker 1: becomes very difficult and no matter how good you are
Speaker 1: at it, you you potentially could get it wrong unless
Speaker 1: you can really read the situation. So just yeah, always
Speaker 1: be cautious. I think it's a safe play and approach
Speaker 1: with caution well.
Speaker 3: And I mean that's one of the things I've been
Speaker 3: writing about this a lot lately, is the better you
Speaker 3: get at calling and the more confident you get, the
Speaker 3: less you feel that pressure to just put yourself as
Speaker 3: close as you can, you know. I mean when you
Speaker 3: talk about a bird like that, you know you run
Speaker 3: into that lot with pressure birds. If you hunt a
Speaker 3: lot of public land birds, you'll get those birds that
Speaker 3: just hang up. They'll tell you where they are, but
Speaker 3: it's like you really got to give them something special.
Speaker 3: And so if you can work two calls at one time,
Speaker 3: you know, and make it sound like two hens meeting
Speaker 3: up and cutting hard, and or just give them something different,
Speaker 3: sometimes that's all you need to break them to you.
Speaker 3: But just going to them is so often that does
Speaker 3: not go well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So once again, just be cautious. And then it's
Speaker 1: it's really a skill. It takes a lot, and even
Speaker 1: no matter how many birds you've listened to, still can
Speaker 1: get it wrong. So jumping into our next question, one,
Speaker 1: thing we don't talk a lot about but does play
Speaker 1: a significant factor. But we we also don't think about
Speaker 1: it a lot while we're hunting, especially in Washington where
Speaker 1: we have water and a lot of places. You know,
Speaker 1: how does water affect your turkey hunt? It's it's different
Speaker 1: than an elk and a wallow or you know elk
Speaker 1: that need to go to water every day. Turkeys can
Speaker 1: get it in different places. But they also will use,
Speaker 1: you know, water for different reasons, for feed, for green up.
Speaker 1: What do you how do you think about water in
Speaker 1: relation to spring turkey hunting?
Speaker 3: And you know, I've I've killed birds in like proximity
Speaker 3: to water and Texas and places where you're like, I
Speaker 3: think they're going there to drink. But I use it more,
Speaker 3: you know, because we a lot of the states I hunt.
Speaker 3: You'll get a turkey season that opens up and you
Speaker 3: might get snow, I mean you and so the wetlands
Speaker 3: are full, you know, and those birds do not like
Speaker 3: getting their feet wet unless they have a real good reason.
Speaker 3: So if they're if they're just traveling point A to
Speaker 3: B and scratching or whatever, they're gonna avoid water. And
Speaker 3: so I've I spend a lot of time setting up blind,
Speaker 3: especially for my daughters, where I'm like, there's a swamp
Speaker 3: here and there's a cattail slew there and this is
Speaker 3: the high ground. I mean, kind of like you do
Speaker 3: a deer and you know, they don't always do it.
Speaker 3: Sometimes they'll fly across, but if they can walk, they can.
Speaker 3: And so I mean water is a factor in a
Speaker 3: lot of stuff. And then I mean, I've seen this too,
Speaker 3: and I don't really know what's going on, but it's
Speaker 3: almost like there's a little micro climate around that water first,
Speaker 3: you know, so when you don't have anything else green
Speaker 3: in the woods, sometimes you can go and see turkey
Speaker 3: scratching up on the edges of water. It's like they're
Speaker 3: they're finding something there that they're keying on. And so
Speaker 3: there's a you know, you might look at it and go, well,
Speaker 3: they're just walking around this edge. They're not if you
Speaker 3: watch them or you you know, you might think, oh,
Speaker 3: they're going down there to drink when they got water everywhere,
Speaker 3: and so there's there's things like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think the the amount of bugs
Speaker 1: around that water too. You watch them out there bugging
Speaker 1: as their feed in the middle of the day. I
Speaker 1: think they there's just a lot more bugs near the
Speaker 1: water than maybe away from the water, you know, if
Speaker 1: we're talking about like the same feed in comparison, so
Speaker 1: they may be going down there getting into better food,
Speaker 1: you know, better bugging area from the feed. But yeah,
Speaker 1: so you're basically saying you can treat that water as
Speaker 1: almost not necessarily a funnel, but it almost condenses them
Speaker 1: to like a more narrow path, Like their routine is
Speaker 1: gonna be a tighter path because they're not gonna want
Speaker 1: to be in the swamp. They're not gonna want to
Speaker 1: be next to the water. I'm sure you're gonna kind
Speaker 1: of choke them down to some of these areas so
Speaker 1: they can maintain the high ground.
Speaker 3: It's absolutely a funnel, I mean. And and this is
Speaker 3: you know, this is another crazy theory too, when you
Speaker 3: talk about you know, bugs and water. I do a
Speaker 3: lot of duck photography in the spring, and I'll watch
Speaker 3: hawks set up and you know, you think, like nothing
Speaker 3: out there eats toads, right like you might have a
Speaker 3: dog that'll guma tode up and salivate for a while.
Speaker 3: And I'll watch certain hawks flying and just keying on
Speaker 3: those toads and pick them up. And I always watch
Speaker 3: those turkeys work in those swamp edges. I'm like, are
Speaker 3: they they you know they'd grab a frog? Yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean you know they would. And I'm like, are they keen?
Speaker 3: This probably sounds so stupid, but I'm like, there's something there.
Speaker 3: You know, it doesn't really look like they're catching something,
Speaker 3: but if it was cold enough, it probably wouldn't be that,
Speaker 3: you know, probably wouldn't look that crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so then towards later season is some of
Speaker 1: these you know, wetlands and areas dry up, then you
Speaker 1: almost lose your advantage. You know, the advantage you had
Speaker 1: of necking them down or funneling them is because now
Speaker 1: they've got you know, basically more real estate that they
Speaker 1: they're not afraid to walk through, or or that green
Speaker 1: up's changing, right, the green up used to be on
Speaker 1: the edge here will now the edge is receded back,
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred feet, hundred yards whatever it is,
Speaker 1: and so now they it's basically opened up their path.
Speaker 1: So early on you can take advantage of some of
Speaker 1: those higher water levels and neck them down. So that's
Speaker 1: an interesting point there. So one thing that's really hard,
Speaker 1: and I've tried to rewind my brain when this question
Speaker 1: kind of came up, or I was putting it together
Speaker 1: for you. Is because once you kind of got your
Speaker 1: understanding of turkeys, you just kind of know what amount
Speaker 1: of sign is enough. But let's say you're a brand
Speaker 1: new hunter, your brand new turkey hunting. How do you
Speaker 1: know when you go to scout property if enough sign
Speaker 1: is there? If that makes any sense, you know, like
Speaker 1: we've been there enough, we just like, oh there's enough scat,
Speaker 1: there's birds, goblin, whatever. But for a new hunter that
Speaker 1: maybe just doesn't have it figured out yet, you know,
Speaker 1: there might have been one bird on there a year ago,
Speaker 1: you know, and that's a sign that you see. What
Speaker 1: would you look at and when would you be comfortable
Speaker 1: enough that there's enough sign on this piece to hunt it?
Speaker 3: It depends how fresh it is. And you kind of
Speaker 3: alluded to this earlier. You know the good thing about
Speaker 3: spring in most places, you're gonna get some rain and
Speaker 3: you're gonna get a fresh you know, like a clean slate,
Speaker 3: and you know it might only you might only have
Speaker 3: to find a fresh set of tom track that you
Speaker 3: know was made this morning, and that's all you need
Speaker 3: to set up on that login road tomorrow, or you know,
Speaker 3: if you haven't had any rain for a while, it's
Speaker 3: a little drier, and now it's like, okay, I know
Speaker 3: the sign I'm looking at might be a couple of
Speaker 3: days or a week old. Then you want as much
Speaker 3: as possible, and so I always try to. It's kind
Speaker 3: of like with white tails, like, oh, you know, you
Speaker 3: find a bunch of rubs, that's great, Like I want
Speaker 3: to see what's going on too, So that's like that's
Speaker 3: the starting point. So if you go out there and
Speaker 3: you're in that corner of the cut, you know, cornfield
Speaker 3: or whatever, and you see some you know tracks and
Speaker 3: some you know turkey droppings, you're like, okay, this it
Speaker 3: seems like there's a concentration here. If there's a way
Speaker 3: to back that up with observation, then you win because
Speaker 3: now you know and I mean, you know, the good
Speaker 3: thing about signing the turkeys laid down is you know
Speaker 3: they did it in the day, so at least you
Speaker 3: have that to work. But you know the other thing
Speaker 3: to do. And I know people they don't think about
Speaker 3: this very often, but if you're working, if you're like
Speaker 3: on a small property like a lot of us in
Speaker 3: the Midwest and the East Star running trail cameras for
Speaker 3: turkeys is almost cheating, Like it's it's crazy ey, how
Speaker 3: dialed into those patterns you can get them and see
Speaker 3: with a trail camera. So it's if you're like, if
Speaker 3: you're new to it and you're like, I don't know
Speaker 3: what these tracks mean, Like if you have a trail camera,
Speaker 3: maybe put it out, or it's better to go out
Speaker 3: and glass if you can, because you know, in person
Speaker 3: observation is way better. But there's ways to just kind
Speaker 3: of go, Okay, now I know what's going on here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would consider that question a little bit
Speaker 1: more like pre pre scouting, Right, you're out there February
Speaker 1: before they're goblin, before maybe they've broken you know, there's
Speaker 1: still maybe in their winter flocks. But ideally the best
Speaker 1: way to proof it is boots on the ground. You know,
Speaker 1: those those turkeys are gonna start goblin early March, at
Speaker 1: least where I'm at. You know, they've been gobling for
Speaker 1: the last well by time this airs, you know, two months,
Speaker 1: so you should really go proof it when those birds
Speaker 1: are there and as they start to break up, you know,
Speaker 1: into the end of March or middle of March, wherever
Speaker 1: you're at, just go proof that that ground is going
Speaker 1: to hold turkeys during you know, the spring. And and
Speaker 1: the best way to do that is Tony mentioned, you know,
Speaker 1: put eyes on them, put eyes on the or just
Speaker 1: go locate on that, you know, go spend the morning
Speaker 1: there and you're gonna know, you know, probably by the
Speaker 1: middle of March, if if there's gonna be birds or not.
Speaker 3: And I would say the only thing to be careful
Speaker 3: with there, you know, scouting big flocks is the easiest,
Speaker 3: and the turkeys are so consistent until you get that
Speaker 3: real green up where the bugs are really a factor.
Speaker 3: And then those flocks are when they're done, like they're
Speaker 3: they're not flocking up anymore no matter what comes in.
Speaker 3: And you start to get you know, by nine ten
Speaker 3: o'clock in the morning when you're sitting out there and
Speaker 3: you see all those bugs kind of like when you're
Speaker 3: fly fishing, like you just know those birds are keying
Speaker 3: on that. And so you might have glassed a flock
Speaker 3: in the cornfield two weeks ago.
Speaker 2: And if that green up.
Speaker 3: Hits hard and it warms up and those bugs are out,
Speaker 3: they're gonna focus on that food source.
Speaker 2: And it's gonna change.
Speaker 1: Change, yeah, yeah, change it up real quick and next conversation.
Speaker 1: So it seems like no matter what, we can be
Speaker 1: you know, in prime best managed, you know, land in Kansas,
Speaker 1: we can be in eastern Washington where right now I
Speaker 1: feel like we're in that first twenty years of turkey
Speaker 1: r introduction, still like they've been there longer, but they're
Speaker 1: still in that like you know, predators haven't got them yet.
Speaker 1: They're still on the upswing. But it seems like no
Speaker 1: matter how many birds we're in, every once in a while,
Speaker 1: every season, you just run into that brick wall. And
Speaker 1: then sometimes that brick wall of no gobbling will stay
Speaker 1: up for a day. Sometimes it'll last a couple of days.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a lot of times triggered by whether
Speaker 1: it could be triggered up by them just being a
Speaker 1: hind up. What's your strategy go to there where you
Speaker 1: feel like I just seen a bird. I crow called
Speaker 1: out him, my alcohol at him, my turkey called out
Speaker 1: of my cut at him, and the thing doesn't answer,
Speaker 1: Like how do you get you know, how do you
Speaker 1: hunt with with purpose and with some confidence at that point?
Speaker 1: Because sometimes I just you know, I just get super frustrated,
Speaker 1: but I'm curious, you.
Speaker 3: Know, man, I think I think the main problem a
Speaker 3: lot of time turkey hunters have is the turkey sounds
Speaker 3: they've listened to are sounds other turkey hunters make, so
Speaker 3: they go to YouTube. And I'm not saying there's anything
Speaker 3: wrong with that, but when you listen to wild birds,
Speaker 3: it's like it's like being around a herd of elk.
Speaker 3: When you listen to how cows call and how they communicate,
Speaker 3: it's just different than listening to somebody explain it to you.
Speaker 3: And when you spend time around turkeys, there's we're so
Speaker 3: keen in on the loud noises right, like the loud
Speaker 3: yelping sequence, the gobbles, of course, But when you when
Speaker 3: you call in birds, the hens, and they come in close,
Speaker 3: even Tom's there's a language that it almost doesn't stop.
Speaker 3: And if you don't hear them make it, you don't
Speaker 3: know how to like, you don't know how to work
Speaker 3: on that. So I'm always I don't when I'm out there,
Speaker 3: I'm way too cocky. I'm like, there isn't a bird
Speaker 3: I can't call in, and there's lots of birds I
Speaker 3: can't call in, and trust me, I met them, But
Speaker 3: I always look at that and I go the bird,
Speaker 3: the bird that won't gobble at me. That's fine, Like
Speaker 3: you can still call in those quiet birds. And it's
Speaker 3: I always like just think of it, like there's something
Speaker 3: I got to figure out with my calling to win
Speaker 3: that dude over. And the more this, I mean, this
Speaker 3: was really like the primary benefit I felt when I
Speaker 3: bow hunted him for so long was you call in
Speaker 3: so many hens into your decoys and you get them going,
Speaker 3: and you start going back and forth and they're preening
Speaker 3: in front of you and you you're getting an education
Speaker 3: in the sounds they make when they're interacting with other hens,
Speaker 3: and the sounds they make when there's a tom close.
Speaker 3: And it's just like you just have more tools in
Speaker 3: the kit. And so I think, I think a lot
Speaker 3: of times we go out and we go, well, if
Speaker 3: I can't shot goblinm he's call shy or whatever, or
Speaker 3: if I throw him that that sequence of yelps and
Speaker 3: he you know, he looks but he doesn't hit me,
Speaker 3: then he's not workable. And I'm like, man, you got
Speaker 3: a lot more things you can do. And I think
Speaker 3: you know my thing, you know, you would think you
Speaker 3: hunt pressure birds, right, like you go down public land,
Speaker 3: and it's always like tied to subtlety, right like be quiet,
Speaker 3: make soft yelps, scratch a little bit. I find going
Speaker 3: the other way helps me a lot. Like I think
Speaker 3: a lot of those birds are out there and they go,
Speaker 3: I've heard these hens yelp and you know, purr and
Speaker 3: cluck and do all the little quiet stuff. But when
Speaker 3: you start getting fired up, especially if you can run
Speaker 3: two calls or you have a buddy to go back
Speaker 3: and forth with, now there's something interesting for them. And
Speaker 3: I just think a lot of your competition on pressure
Speaker 3: birds is going the other way. And they're like, I
Speaker 3: gotta they're not saying much, so I gotta be quiet,
Speaker 3: and man, I usually get real aggressive and at least
Speaker 3: then even if you don't call them in, they'll usually
Speaker 3: hit you or change their body language a little bit.
Speaker 3: And I think that's important. But it's a confidence thing
Speaker 3: with your calls, you know, yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so as far as like do you continue,
Speaker 1: do you change up anything, as far as like running
Speaker 1: ridges and locating or like do you do you'd maintain
Speaker 1: like your same path you would take if they were
Speaker 1: gobbling crazy or do you ever assume that a bird's
Speaker 1: they are just not answering you? Does that affect like
Speaker 1: you do like cold calling setups where you just might
Speaker 1: set up for tons if things are just slowed away down,
Speaker 1: you'll just do a cold calling setup.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and you know I do.
Speaker 3: I do a lot of map work, like if I'm
Speaker 3: hunting a big chunk of public land, like I'm like,
Speaker 3: where where can I go? People probably aren't gonna go,
Speaker 3: just like the deer, and I'll do I'll do a
Speaker 3: lot of cold calling setups, but it'll be there'll be
Speaker 3: a reason behind it, like I'm I'm here because I
Speaker 3: think so, And then I try to give them like
Speaker 3: two hours. And I know people get real impatient if
Speaker 3: there's no birds going. But man again, you know, like
Speaker 3: we talked about before, it's proximity. And if you've got
Speaker 3: birds that are covering the countryside, even if they're not
Speaker 3: making noise, and I'm sitting there and I'm working and
Speaker 3: it's in a spot that has something going for it,
Speaker 3: you know, half hours isn't enough time, Forty five minutes
Speaker 3: isn't enough time. And you know, I just think about
Speaker 3: how often you you know, especially when you're younger, and
Speaker 3: you're you're just gung ho and you stand up and
Speaker 3: you walk twenty yards.
Speaker 1: Birds flush everywhere all the.
Speaker 3: Time, man, And so I just try to be like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm going to commit to this spot. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: make it comfortable, and I'm going to give it, you know, like,
Speaker 3: and I will tell myself, like, you are not leaving here.
Speaker 3: It's it's noon, and you're not leaving here till two, no.
Speaker 1: Matter what set your clock to it. There's no that
Speaker 1: I'm gonna jump ahead a few because it's a great
Speaker 1: segue into patience, which is something I don't have much of,
Speaker 1: but you have to. I mean, I've I've learned and
Speaker 1: I've been told by the turkeys, as you mentioned multiple times,
Speaker 1: that patience is one of those things that's actually to
Speaker 1: your to your advantage when turkey hunting. You know, how
Speaker 1: long can you sit still? You know, me just wiggling,
Speaker 1: you know, forty five minutes into sit or a minute
Speaker 1: has cost me birds me you know, thinking I can
Speaker 1: do something that because there hasn't been any action, So
Speaker 1: when aside from me just setting a clock and is
Speaker 1: it just a gut feel? And how long you're gonna
Speaker 1: sit if the area is like cold versus lukewarm, like
Speaker 1: maybe you heard a gobble, you know, a half hour
Speaker 1: into the sites that like can you run us through?
Speaker 1: Like when you're gonna move aside from just setting your
Speaker 1: clock to two hours or is it as simple as
Speaker 1: just I'm gonna give this two hours because I think
Speaker 1: that's the right time, or that's how big this area is,
Speaker 1: or I.
Speaker 2: Just have to force myself.
Speaker 3: And this is this comes from the dear world, right,
Speaker 3: and I mean partially that and bowl hunting turkeys where
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, I've done a lot of dark
Speaker 3: to dark sits and blinds bowl hunting turkeys and you
Speaker 3: get you know, you might have six hours of down
Speaker 3: time and then you look out and there's a tom coming,
Speaker 3: you know. And so for me, I think that, you know,
Speaker 3: one of the things that just kills so many people's
Speaker 3: success is they're just impatient and I see this, you know,
Speaker 3: this is in the white tail space big time. But turkeys,
Speaker 3: because people they're visible. People think they're gonna go strike
Speaker 3: one up or they're gonna go see one There's a
Speaker 3: lot of covering ground and not as much hunting, you know,
Speaker 3: guys out there. You know, you go hunting over the
Speaker 3: counter unit for elk in Colorado. You know, if it's
Speaker 3: the first week, you probably better off sitting on that
Speaker 3: water all day, even though most people can't do it right.
Speaker 3: And turkeys, I think we just don't give them enough time.
Speaker 3: And you got to think, you know, sometimes these birds,
Speaker 3: you know, we all love that bird that runs in, right,
Speaker 3: A lot of them don't, especially when it's greened up
Speaker 3: and they've had some pressure.
Speaker 2: They just need time yep.
Speaker 1: And and the other thing that I've noticed, just after
Speaker 1: doing it a lot, no matter how brushy we it is,
Speaker 1: I feel like I've got like better than normal eyesight
Speaker 1: and can pick things up that are unnatural. And we've
Speaker 1: had birds coming in where I know there's a bird
Speaker 1: within eighty or ninety yards and I can't pick the
Speaker 1: dang thing up, and you know that little head's bobbing around,
Speaker 1: and so it's like, be patient, don't move, only move
Speaker 1: when you know, when when you absolutely know, because we've
Speaker 1: all taken those risks like getting our gun up or
Speaker 1: turning where we think the bird's gonna come. And and
Speaker 1: you know, that kind of tags on to the patients
Speaker 1: of time, but it's like they're so good, and it's
Speaker 1: it's seeing you, seeing movement, seeing any of that that
Speaker 1: you know, being patient, only moving when you can it
Speaker 1: is going to be to your advantage because like you said,
Speaker 1: I've I've flushed birds by getting up after half hour.
Speaker 1: I've I've got birds to run away because I've you know,
Speaker 1: moved my knee at the wrong time. Yeah, patience goes
Speaker 1: a long way when turkey and you know, being just
Speaker 1: being comfortable. That is one thing me and Jordan talked
Speaker 1: about last last week on the podcast was becoming as
Speaker 1: comfortable as you can under the tree. We've actually went
Speaker 1: to using foldable like low sitting chairs just because we
Speaker 1: can sit there for hours and not have to move,
Speaker 1: and it's it's as stupid as a little chair would seem.
Speaker 1: Has probably upped my odds, you know, fifty percent on
Speaker 1: those long caulums just because I'm more willing to sit
Speaker 1: there for long sits.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to be comfortable, Yeah, I mean, if
Speaker 3: you need to pop out a little blind or whatever,
Speaker 3: it's so important if it'll keep you there.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, for sure. So I want to talk about
Speaker 1: patterning off the roost back when I was younger, maybe
Speaker 1: a little more bloodthirsty. One thing, every morning we needed
Speaker 1: to kill the turkeys that we sat up on, you know,
Speaker 1: we we sat up on those so we would literally
Speaker 1: chase those turkeys until we bumped them or kill them.
Speaker 1: It seemed like every time. And so one thing is
Speaker 1: we're getting older, is more patterning off the roost. If
Speaker 1: you have time available within the hunt, you know you
Speaker 1: have five six more days, do you ever pattern off
Speaker 1: the roosts? Like these birds sat here, they went this way.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take that a the learning dam. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: leave them alone. I'm gonna listen to them, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: show them, but I'm never gonna get close enough to
Speaker 1: bump them and then use that against them on the
Speaker 1: following day. And how important that can be, you know,
Speaker 1: for your excess, especially on public ground where you're you're
Speaker 1: finding you know, maybe not as many birds as you want.
Speaker 1: And that's really your only play.
Speaker 2: All the time.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's I'm a scouter man, and I like observation,
Speaker 3: and so if I and that, I mean again, that's
Speaker 3: kind of the patient's thing.
Speaker 2: If you if you have to.
Speaker 3: Sandbag a day to kind of watch them and that's
Speaker 3: so hard to do with Turkey's because you can always
Speaker 3: move in on them. But like I said, you know,
Speaker 3: if you see them do something, as long as you
Speaker 3: know the conditions don't drastically change or somebody comes in
Speaker 3: there and blows it up, they're gonna do it tomorrow.
Speaker 3: And I think you know, when you talk about patterning
Speaker 3: off the roost, I mean that's you know that guys
Speaker 3: were preaching about that in Alabama fifty years ago, right,
Speaker 3: that's like kind of old school advice. I take it
Speaker 3: way further and I go, can you pattern them throughout
Speaker 3: the day? You know, because a lot of times they're
Speaker 3: not that killable off the roost. I shouldn't say they're
Speaker 3: not that callable off the roost, because they're gonna be
Speaker 3: following those hens and they're gonna play that game till
Speaker 3: nine and ten o'clock in the morning, and then you
Speaker 3: start getting a window on a lot of birds. And
Speaker 3: so yeah, it's great to know where they're gonna start
Speaker 3: and where they're gonna end.
Speaker 2: Up, super valuable.
Speaker 3: But if you also know where they end up at
Speaker 3: noon or you know, ten in the morning or two
Speaker 3: in the afternoon, then you're really putting something together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we used to. Like I said you, I would
Speaker 1: for some reason justify the decision we would make that
Speaker 1: I think we can crawl to this point and cross
Speaker 1: that fence there, and then we'll catch back up to
Speaker 1: them and kill that bird, right because we've watched them
Speaker 1: all morning, versus I think as we've I've grown up
Speaker 1: as a trick Kennery like, well, they walked by that
Speaker 1: little pinch point on the ridge meadow or whatever it
Speaker 1: may be. You know, they walked by there, They're most
Speaker 1: likely you know it tomorrow, Let's just go back and
Speaker 1: have a sandwich, or go try to locate some other
Speaker 1: birds that we haven't. You know, we may not screw
Speaker 1: up and then go and kill that bird tomorrow because
Speaker 1: chances are, you know, as long as they don't get
Speaker 1: bumped and not crazy weather wind switches, they're gonna be
Speaker 1: back in that same area Versus me trying to justify
Speaker 1: how I'm gonna crawl through a field and go kill
Speaker 1: that bird when you know chances are under a percent.
Speaker 1: You know, before we before we do it, do it.
Speaker 2: But that's a rite of passage.
Speaker 3: When you're when you're starting out, you're gonna you're gonna
Speaker 3: get too close a lot, and there's nothing there's like
Speaker 3: no easier way to blow up a hunt, to get
Speaker 3: in too close to the roost in the morning. Like
Speaker 3: it's just it's hard, man.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So another great segue into cutting the distance. You
Speaker 1: know the name of the podcast and it's one of
Speaker 1: those things, is you know, to cut the distance. There's
Speaker 1: two ways that can be accomplished. One you either have
Speaker 1: the bird cut the distance or you use your own
Speaker 1: feet to cut the distance. I feel that cutting the
Speaker 1: distance as a turkey hunter is maybe you know, the
Speaker 1: highest level of achievement as far as like woodsmanship go.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, they can't smell you, so you can
Speaker 1: approach from any direction. But as far as like getting caught,
Speaker 1: needing to use terrain vegetation to your advantage and not
Speaker 1: getting picked off is as tough as it gets while
Speaker 1: you're wild turkey on you, especially since there's multiple eyes.
Speaker 1: But in your opinion, like how close do you want
Speaker 1: to be before you start your calling? And you may
Speaker 1: have to add some context to that as far as
Speaker 1: you know vegetation what it allows, But what's your ideal
Speaker 1: like always closer the better? But but what's that like
Speaker 1: magic circle to that bird.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I think, like you know, seventy five to one hundred
Speaker 3: yards is like red zone for a turkey, Like I
Speaker 3: think if you can get into that range, I mean
Speaker 3: I've had so many times, not a ton, but I've
Speaker 3: killed quite a few birds in my life where I
Speaker 3: heard them or I knew they were there and I
Speaker 3: got into as close as I was like, this is
Speaker 3: as much as I'm gonna risk it, and I'll scratch
Speaker 3: out a spot to sit and that's enough. I mean,
Speaker 3: they're coming because you're just you're there, you know, And
Speaker 3: it's so for me, it's it's, you know, pretty close.
Speaker 3: But you know, if you get to seventy five yards
Speaker 3: on a bird and you especially early season, you're in
Speaker 3: trouble a lot of times. And so it kind of
Speaker 3: depends if it's earlier late and I'm I'm not huge
Speaker 3: on pushing it too much, you know, like if I
Speaker 3: know there's a bird there and I think I can
Speaker 3: work him, I don't need to be super close, and
Speaker 3: so I would say just kind of again, be a
Speaker 3: little bit cautious. But sometimes the terrain lets you get
Speaker 3: right there, you know. I mean I killed a bird
Speaker 3: in Nebraska a few years ago with my bow. It
Speaker 3: was just strutting his ass off on a ridge top
Speaker 3: and he was I couldn't get him down to where
Speaker 3: I was. And I got up there and I got
Speaker 3: real close to that bird because I had a quiet
Speaker 3: way to get up there, and I called him over
Speaker 3: that ridge because I was like twenty yards away before
Speaker 3: I made a peep. And then you know, you're I mean,
Speaker 3: you're talking a little soft, you know, like real, You're
Speaker 3: not gonna blow his ears out here. But for that
Speaker 3: bird to walk over and look, you know, and if
Speaker 3: you can get to like fifty yards on him even
Speaker 3: you know, especially if you're gun hunting man, they're gonna
Speaker 3: give you your look like you're you're gonna get your chance,
Speaker 3: but you better be ready.
Speaker 1: Is there ever a situation where you feel like stalking
Speaker 1: the turkey is the right answer versus setting up and
Speaker 1: trying to call? Have you ever?
Speaker 3: You know, I I've killed birds that way.
Speaker 2: I don't like it.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just it, you can do it, you know.
Speaker 3: I just love calling them, you know, I love I
Speaker 3: love that part of the process. And so that's that's
Speaker 3: part of the reason I bowl on them so much,
Speaker 3: is it's such an accomplishment to me, just get them,
Speaker 3: you know, like my decoys are seven yards away and
Speaker 3: I want them. I want them to buy the whole thing,
Speaker 3: you know, And so yeah, I mean you can do it,
Speaker 3: but it's you know, especially when you're out west and
Speaker 3: they're super visible, like that's a that's a possibility. But
Speaker 3: if you want to, if you want to really enjoy
Speaker 3: turkey hunting, you learn how to call.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love calling them. But there was there
Speaker 1: was one bird where I had just got my ass
Speaker 1: whipped all morning. Right we were on six or seven setups.
Speaker 1: I had lost a couple of decoys because I didn't
Speaker 1: want to go grab them while I was still trying
Speaker 1: to stay with the birds. And you know, they had
Speaker 1: one of those nasty old boss hens that just drug
Speaker 1: them away from our setup every time. And as much
Speaker 1: as I'd rather call them in, like there was something
Speaker 1: satisfying about, you know, a flock of I think it
Speaker 1: was fourteen or fifteen birds, and I enjoyed it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: they're on public ground. It's always a little bit dangerous. Yep,
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're and but yeah, it's it's definitely
Speaker 1: a different challenge. But but I think I'm like, you'd
Speaker 1: rather call them in, And that leads me to my
Speaker 1: next question. We talk a lot about calling birds on
Speaker 1: and cutting distance, but can you kind of roll through
Speaker 1: kind of your calling system, Like is there a strategy
Speaker 1: you've mentioned in the past on public land sometimes you'll
Speaker 1: actually do the opposite of what you think call out
Speaker 1: or if you're hunting private birds, like just kind of
Speaker 1: go through your your calling system if there is one,
Speaker 1: or so.
Speaker 3: I like to unless I unless I know where the
Speaker 3: birds are and I know the birds I'm working, are
Speaker 3: you know they're three hundred yards away or whatever. Let's
Speaker 3: just say, if I'm running and gunning and I set
Speaker 3: up in a spot, I stop at a spot, I'm
Speaker 3: my god, is the spot? I'm always going to check
Speaker 3: them real quiet, like real soft yelps, a little bit
Speaker 3: of per and maybe just to see you know, because
Speaker 3: a lot of times you might not get a tom
Speaker 3: to gobble, but you'll get a hand to respond. And
Speaker 3: so they I mean, they almost always give you a
Speaker 3: courtesy yelp.
Speaker 1: Right, so not to stop you here real quick. So
Speaker 1: even if you think you're a couple hundred yards away,
Speaker 1: you're gonna go to Turkey calls versus using your locators
Speaker 1: anymore or or like, That's one thing I still struggle
Speaker 1: with is we think there's a bird here, I almost
Speaker 1: want to know where he's at. Again. Do you go
Speaker 1: to your turkey calls now or do you go to
Speaker 1: your locators?
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I go to my turkey calls mostly if I'm if
Speaker 3: I'm in a situation where I'm moving and there's times
Speaker 3: where I'm going to use a locator a lot. But
Speaker 3: if I'm just going through the states of the dead
Speaker 3: time in the morning and I don't have much going on,
Speaker 3: if I find a place where I'm like, I want
Speaker 3: to set up here, right for whatever reason, this is
Speaker 3: the spot, and I'm committed to it already, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: set up, and I'm gonna start soft, and you know,
Speaker 3: I'll ramp it up if I don't get a response
Speaker 3: after a while. But almost every calling sequence that I
Speaker 3: have that's a cold call, I'm starting off so off
Speaker 3: just in case, and then I never leave without doing
Speaker 3: a locator, you know, one more, Yeah, just going away, Yeah,
Speaker 3: just because you know, like you don't know man like that,
Speaker 3: he might not hit anything you make in that crow
Speaker 3: caller that awl who might get him, or you know,
Speaker 3: you gobble and the depending on where you're at, gobble
Speaker 3: with a mouth, callar whatever.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it just depends.
Speaker 3: But I always I always just assume, like, maybe there's
Speaker 3: one close and I want to, like, I want to
Speaker 3: know it, even if it's just a lone hen or something.
Speaker 3: I want to know they're there before I really ramp
Speaker 3: it up.
Speaker 1: So are you are you under the idea that you
Speaker 1: just kind of feed him what he likes? Are you
Speaker 1: going to start with real soft clucks and purrs and
Speaker 1: then kind of graduate are you going to always go
Speaker 1: to our seventh You know, we talked about the seven
Speaker 1: to nine note yop like is there? You know, we
Speaker 1: always talk about levels of threat when we're elk hunting.
Speaker 1: You know, we're we go in there. We don't necessarily
Speaker 1: want to. We do at times depending on the bulls
Speaker 1: demeanor leading up to that. But you know, we may
Speaker 1: rip his head off right off the bat, or we
Speaker 1: may like, let's try a cal cal, see if he
Speaker 1: hooks on that, and then if not, let's try an
Speaker 1: excited cal cal and if that doesn't work, maybe we'll
Speaker 1: do like a little moaning bugle, you know, and you
Speaker 1: kind of run these progressions because there is times no
Speaker 1: matter how much we get uh, you know, we get
Speaker 1: accused of biggling too much into aggressively. There are some
Speaker 1: progressions we run kind of what's your thought there? Are
Speaker 1: you gonna just kind of start like the lowest level
Speaker 1: or are you just gonna read the situation or what's
Speaker 1: the first peep coming out of your mouth? And how
Speaker 1: do you decide? Kind of.
Speaker 3: I start quiet, but I don't stay there very long.
Speaker 3: And if you know, especially if I've got a bird,
Speaker 3: I'm like that bird's hot, or I've got a hen
Speaker 3: that's responding. When I get a hen to respond, I
Speaker 3: go after her hard.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 3: I'm not a I get after it like I like,
Speaker 3: you know, because we always think, like you know, softer
Speaker 3: is always better, and I do like to start that way.
Speaker 2: But I like to have a conversation with them.
Speaker 3: And I think you I think you can turn them on,
Speaker 3: you know, like I think you get those birds that yeah,
Speaker 3: I'll respond, But if you're you know, three or five
Speaker 3: yelps and you're done, or you know, just just soft
Speaker 3: stuff like they're like, yeah, that's what turkeys do when
Speaker 3: they're not really doing anything. But you know, like you
Speaker 3: mentioned that, you know, boss hen leading that gobbler away.
Speaker 3: Like my favorite thing is when I get that hen
Speaker 3: to talk to me and I can piss her off
Speaker 3: up on her. Yeah, if you get that hen, if
Speaker 3: you get a hen that's that's angry and she starts cutting,
Speaker 3: you're gonna get a bird fired out, Like there's there's
Speaker 3: nothing better out there. And you know, I really learn
Speaker 3: this hunt fall birds because hens get real territorial in
Speaker 3: the fall and they'll come in and chest bump decoys.
Speaker 3: I mean, you see it in the spring too, but
Speaker 3: it's real common in the fall for them to get
Speaker 3: territorial over food sources. And man, when you get them
Speaker 3: going and they're pissed, the world changes. And so I mean,
Speaker 3: if you have a live hen doing that, that's great.
Speaker 3: But you can do that. I mean, I can do
Speaker 3: that with a mouth call on and a pot call
Speaker 3: and you know you can do it with a box
Speaker 3: call too, But you can make that like confrontation shou happen,
Speaker 3: and Tom's just freaking love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm I'm with you, Like, there's nothing better than
Speaker 1: when you get a tom hooked on cutting, because then
Speaker 1: you know, like you're at the you know, you can
Speaker 1: just be as aggressive as possible, and you know when
Speaker 1: they gobble every cut, you're just like, the game's too easy.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say too easy at that point,
Speaker 1: but it's that it's way better than the bird where
Speaker 1: you're like, all he doesn't answer klucks, he doesn't answer
Speaker 1: it a yelop. You know, it's like you're trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what's gonna work, and maybe you know nothing does.
Speaker 1: But I'm I'm similar. You kind of start slow, but
Speaker 1: as you know, you run through your four or five
Speaker 1: different progressions and if none of them hook, you run
Speaker 1: back through them loud, and then if nothing hooks, you're
Speaker 1: just like, all right, I don't know what to do
Speaker 1: or it's gonna be a real tough bird to call him.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think similar to you, we go loud
Speaker 1: real quick, and.
Speaker 3: I mean, but you're you're also at like a huge
Speaker 3: advantage if you can see them right, you know, cause
Speaker 3: I mean, you see this a lot where you know that,
Speaker 3: especially like a Loane Toms, you see us a lot
Speaker 3: where they'll come out in the field, they're scratching. You know,
Speaker 3: they'll throw you some struts, gobbles, whatever, like they're they're
Speaker 3: kind of doing the thing, but you can tell it's
Speaker 3: probably not the bird you want to just go after.
Speaker 3: He can see your decoys, he can hear you, and
Speaker 3: I go the opposite way with a bird like that,
Speaker 3: if I can watch him where then I do a
Speaker 3: lot of soft purring and clucking and just like little
Speaker 3: hen chatter back and forth where it's you know, if
Speaker 3: you're gun hunting. It's different with bowl hunting because a
Speaker 3: lot of times they won't commit right to the decoys,
Speaker 3: but you'll get that drive by and they'll be in
Speaker 3: gun range and it's one of those things it's just
Speaker 3: kind of like it kind of just like pulls them closer.
Speaker 3: Whether it's not that typical run in and just make
Speaker 3: it happen, but they're like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 3: get closer to you.
Speaker 2: Ladies just cuts yep.
Speaker 1: And that's we could ask quite a bit like when
Speaker 1: do you just stop calling you because you hear a
Speaker 1: lot of you know, that's just as in my opinion,
Speaker 1: sometimes just as valuable as the calling, especially turkeys, and
Speaker 1: I use that no calling is when you've got a
Speaker 1: turkey that's not super fired up, not super interested, but
Speaker 1: it seems like he's closed some distance. I'll just go
Speaker 1: to like similar to you all setme, I watch for
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. He obviously knows exactly what tree I'm under.
Speaker 1: When he gets to a certain spot, he's gonna be
Speaker 1: able to see my decoys. One thing I have to
Speaker 1: do is just make sure my gun's kind of pointed
Speaker 1: in this somewhat right direction, because he's gonna probably be
Speaker 1: silent as I'm silent. But yeah, you either be quiet
Speaker 1: and then either one he'll come all the way in
Speaker 1: silent or he gets he gets a little bit frustrated,
Speaker 1: maybe five, seven, ten minutes into that wait and I'll
Speaker 1: finally gobble again. And then it seems like you can
Speaker 1: get him fired up after that versus like just giving him.
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of when I'll use that silent
Speaker 1: treatment is when I think I got something semi interested,
Speaker 1: kind of knows where we're at. There's not a lot
Speaker 1: more calling needed. He's either gonna come or not, And
Speaker 1: then just go quiet for a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that that bird that lets you know he's there
Speaker 3: and is just doesn't feel workable. You just gotta let
Speaker 3: it breathe for a while and you know. I mean
Speaker 3: sometimes they come in, sometimes they don't. But sometimes in
Speaker 3: that situation, all it takes is another bird somewhere else,
Speaker 3: you know. I mean you see this a lot on
Speaker 3: a field edge where you're calling to that bird and
Speaker 3: he's strutting. He's not coming. He can he can see
Speaker 3: the decoys. He's like, you guys can see me. And
Speaker 3: then you know, two jakes walk out in the other
Speaker 3: corner or something. You know, something changes the dynamic and
Speaker 3: then all all of the sudden, you know, like now
Speaker 3: he's callable. But that is a you know, learning that,
Speaker 3: like you can't like you could tell people that like,
Speaker 3: oh you got to take a break, like that's like
Speaker 3: just an experienced thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I have to put it through through a
Speaker 1: lot of time, Like you say, just just let it
Speaker 1: Breathe is sometimes gonna gonna get that that that turkey
Speaker 1: fired up even more. In closing, what is one tip
Speaker 1: you would give a turkey hunter to help them find
Speaker 1: success this this spring as far as like, you know,
Speaker 1: an idea theme, you know calling, uh, you know, perseverance,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be.
Speaker 3: You know, I would We talked a lot about scouting,
Speaker 3: but I I I honestly think what makes turkey hunters
Speaker 3: is just confidence with the calls. And so I would
Speaker 3: say I think everybody should know how to use a
Speaker 3: mouth call just because and you know whatever, people have
Speaker 3: their preferences, but I would say, if nothing else, figure
Speaker 3: out how to yelp well with something you know. And
Speaker 3: I like, you know, I like mouth calls for a
Speaker 3: lot of reasons, but I would say, learn something. Learn that,
Speaker 3: like you don't have to you know, purse clucks whatever,
Speaker 3: Like you don't have to do you can kill a
Speaker 3: lot of birds just yelping, but you gotta know how
Speaker 3: to do it. And it's it is not a sound
Speaker 3: when you listen to somebody yelp. You know, it's like
Speaker 3: a two note sound. And people listen to other callers
Speaker 3: and it's like too fast. The cadence is just a
Speaker 3: little off and they're not breaking that that note right,
Speaker 3: Like it's just like a one note, too fast cadence
Speaker 3: and it's unnatural. But you know, if you listen to
Speaker 3: somebody do it, it's like, okay, well it doesn't it
Speaker 3: sounds like a turkey whatever. Then you listen to a
Speaker 3: real turkey and you go, okay, they're a lot slower,
Speaker 3: and there's like a real distinct break in each yelp,
Speaker 3: And I say, just like, master that as best. You
Speaker 3: can work on it in your truck when you're driving whatever.
Speaker 3: Because once you get that confidence, you're gonna call in
Speaker 3: more birds. You're gonna hear them make real sounds, and
Speaker 3: you're just gonna your your vocabulary is gonna expand.
Speaker 2: But you got to have that confidence first.
Speaker 1: Yep. Perfect, Perfect, So, Tony, how can people find out
Speaker 1: more about you? How they can they follow along with
Speaker 1: what you're doing? Yeah?
Speaker 3: They can, Uh, you know, head on over to Instagram
Speaker 3: at Tony J.
Speaker 2: Peterson.
Speaker 3: And you know, I'm a meat eater full timer, so
Speaker 3: all of my stuff is at the medeater dot com
Speaker 3: writing tons of.
Speaker 2: Tons of Turkey articles right now.
Speaker 1: Perfect.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's you know, there's a lot of good
Speaker 3: information out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, really appreciate you having on here, are having
Speaker 1: you on here today? Wealth of information both Whitetail and
Speaker 1: obviously Turkey.
Speaker 3: So we got to talk to Turkey, but we got
Speaker 3: to talk white Tales, but.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have We're gonna get you dialed up here
Speaker 1: for a white Tail episode for sure.
Speaker 3: Awesome, Thanks man, Thanks a lot, Tony,