1
00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,600
Speaker 1: I am Kevin Riley was the president of ENDBC Entertainment

2
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,680
Speaker 1: through the entire first chapter of the American version of

3
00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:20,599
Speaker 1: The Office. Hello peeps, welcome, We're at it again. This

4
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,960
Speaker 1: is The Office deep Dive, and I am your host,

5
00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,840
Speaker 1: Brian bond Gartner. Today you will be listening to my

6
00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:33,239
Speaker 1: interview with Kevin Riley. Who's Kevin Riley? Why are you

7
00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,520
Speaker 1: interviewing him? I don't even remember his name from the credits. Well,

8
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,080
Speaker 1: that's true, Kevin Riley was not in the credits for

9
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:45,040
Speaker 1: the show because Kevin Riley was even more powerful than that.

10
00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:50,159
Speaker 1: Kevin Riley was the NBC executive that was responsible for

11
00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,720
Speaker 1: bringing The Office to the air. If it were not

12
00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,720
Speaker 1: for Kevin Riley, the Office would have been canceled after

13
00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:03,480
Speaker 1: six episodes. Kevin staked his reputation on our show, and

14
00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:08,000
Speaker 1: he fought for us every step of the way. And

15
00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,880
Speaker 1: by the way, Kevin is responsible for shows, not just

16
00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:16,160
Speaker 1: The Office. Kevin was a network executive behind such shows

17
00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 1: as Saved by the Bell, e r Law and Freaking Order,

18
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,400
Speaker 1: The Shield, Niptuck Rescue Me. Then after the Office, he

19
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:31,000
Speaker 1: went on to develop shows like Thirty Rock, Friday Night Lights, Glee,

20
00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,360
Speaker 1: New Girl, Bob's Burgers, the Mindy Project. I'm gonna stop,

21
00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,319
Speaker 1: But my point is we all owe Kevin a gigantic

22
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,840
Speaker 1: thank you for giving us not just the office but

23
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:50,600
Speaker 1: also like of our favorite TV shows. So on that note,

24
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 1: I present to you the Man behind the Curtain, Kevin Riley.

25
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:07,720
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeak. I love it. Bubble and squeak, Bubble

26
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:25,800
Speaker 1: and Squeaker cookie, every moment left over from the nabb before.

27
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,799
Speaker 1: Very great to see you. It's been so long, are

28
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,040
Speaker 1: you Are you putting this whole thing together? I'm putting

29
00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,200
Speaker 1: this whole time. I did not know that I love it,

30
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,120
Speaker 1: you know, I just didn't connect. As Ben caught me

31
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:39,919
Speaker 1: in between meetings and he said of the podcast that

32
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,080
Speaker 1: I realized and then I love that you're doing it.

33
00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,840
Speaker 1: It's actually perfect, by the way, I never even connected

34
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,240
Speaker 1: to this moment. You also have like a great podcast

35
00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,240
Speaker 1: voice too. You done voice over over there I've done

36
00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:52,960
Speaker 1: more recently. You can get in there and do what

37
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,480
Speaker 1: you need to. No, No, you're fine. I've been told

38
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,400
Speaker 1: this a while and it's my cadence. Most sleep of

39
00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,120
Speaker 1: my real book is that I sound like Tom Hanks.

40
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,040
Speaker 1: So there's a no, there's this is actually true. I know,

41
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,639
Speaker 1: I never I've never know, now that you say it, yes,

42
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:16,280
Speaker 1: I have. That then describes it as um a smoky,

43
00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:22,680
Speaker 1: potentially whiskey laden version of Tom Hanks's voice. Um, but

44
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:27,000
Speaker 1: I'll take it whatever. Um. So yeah, I mean we've

45
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,120
Speaker 1: it's been amazing. I mean so much that I have learned,

46
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,639
Speaker 1: and you obviously so important, and especially these early years.

47
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,720
Speaker 1: So I want to take you back. So you join

48
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,560
Speaker 1: f X in two thousand and you're there through three

49
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,800
Speaker 1: through two thousand three, right in this actual building, which

50
00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,360
Speaker 1: is crazy coming in in this build looking in. Yeah,

51
00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,520
Speaker 1: this building was a sort of fox outpost. It really,

52
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,520
Speaker 1: it was the New World Television building. It was really

53
00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,880
Speaker 1: a crappy building. Yes, in fact, it hasn't been really

54
00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,080
Speaker 1: improved that they put a little veneer on it. But

55
00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,360
Speaker 1: at the time, I mean, my rug, I had left

56
00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 1: these beautiful offices in my previous job. My my, my

57
00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,560
Speaker 1: rug had a giant stain in the middle. It was

58
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 1: literally a hole in the wall in my office. And

59
00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,600
Speaker 1: I said to the office manager. She said, hey, anything,

60
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,560
Speaker 1: we can do whatever you need, just let me know

61
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,359
Speaker 1: and we'll get it for you. And they said, you know,

62
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,400
Speaker 1: you think I get two chairs that match and she said, no,

63
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, we can't do that. That's where it was.

64
00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:32,000
Speaker 1: But then things really took off. Yea, um, so Ben

65
00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,120
Speaker 1: was telling me that you had well. Nick grab was

66
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:41,279
Speaker 1: your development executives and he apparently was a big fan

67
00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,839
Speaker 1: of the British version of the Office. And now when

68
00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,480
Speaker 1: did you become aware of the British version of the office.

69
00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,360
Speaker 1: I had heard of it, But Nick has always had

70
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 1: a good nose for sort of what's next. He was

71
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,719
Speaker 1: the guy always looked to like is this sound cool? Yeah, okay, great,

72
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,719
Speaker 1: I think it's cool too, you know. And so it

73
00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,159
Speaker 1: was one of those where I had kind of heard

74
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,200
Speaker 1: about it, like yeah, I thought this, I think this

75
00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,920
Speaker 1: thing is something. And he came seeing it and talking

76
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,320
Speaker 1: to Bed we can get it, and it's we gotta

77
00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,640
Speaker 1: have it. And now did you meet with Ben while

78
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,799
Speaker 1: you were at f X. No, we never did. Really.

79
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,960
Speaker 1: What it was is I was in the middle of

80
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 1: that transition where it was three magical years of f

81
00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,800
Speaker 1: X with a lot of things happening. This is on

82
00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,680
Speaker 1: the heels of winning all awards with the Shield and

83
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,479
Speaker 1: Niptuck and Rescue Me was being cast and Russo's first

84
00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,440
Speaker 1: project Lucky was here and it was just a lot happening,

85
00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,040
Speaker 1: and this would have tucked right in, so it was

86
00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,320
Speaker 1: a perfect effect show. But my contract was up. I

87
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,360
Speaker 1: was in the middle of a lot of negotiations and

88
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,520
Speaker 1: it looked like I'm going back to NBC at this point.

89
00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 1: And that's when I start talking to Ben because I'm like,

90
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, look, I'm not maybe not staying it, but

91
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,800
Speaker 1: if I go, I'd like to take this with me

92
00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,520
Speaker 1: out the door. And you know, wisely, I think Ben

93
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,640
Speaker 1: smelled the opportunity would have made a great effect show,

94
00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,040
Speaker 1: but just from a value perspective, I think he was like, well,

95
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,640
Speaker 1: that's that's better. So we kind of then went quiet

96
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,360
Speaker 1: on it and just sort of sat on it. Okay,

97
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,920
Speaker 1: So then he started meeting with you once you had gone,

98
00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,520
Speaker 1: uh to NBC. Yeah, we had kind of wink winked

99
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,320
Speaker 1: like I'll see you over there. But at that point

100
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,880
Speaker 1: then it picked up momentum. I was going that happened

101
00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,520
Speaker 1: pretty quick, and we need to take it over to him.

102
00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,719
Speaker 1: And you made a deal there, so you pick up

103
00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,680
Speaker 1: the pilot. Now you've got to find somebody to run it,

104
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,640
Speaker 1: and you start meeting with with show runners to run it.

105
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 1: What were your initial instincts about Greg? Well, Greg, he

106
00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,600
Speaker 1: certainly from the get go had my respect. I mean,

107
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,120
Speaker 1: he's known as a very thorough for a couple of things.

108
00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,400
Speaker 1: Number one, all those years on King of the Hill, Yes,

109
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,239
Speaker 1: which was a show I loved, and I know Greg

110
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,360
Speaker 1: from everybody I knew respect it said Greg was the

111
00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 1: real deal. And then secondly Conan, who I now subsequently

112
00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,200
Speaker 1: have gotten you know, known for decades at this point.

113
00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,840
Speaker 1: But I knew that they had come up together and

114
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,960
Speaker 1: we're both close college friends and had comedy background together,

115
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 1: and I just so I don't think we really ever

116
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,320
Speaker 1: that wasn't really ever sell for me. Yeah, I wondered

117
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:18,120
Speaker 1: if because he hadn't come from you know, live action scripted,

118
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 1: if there was any concern about that, or you just

119
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,320
Speaker 1: met with him and you knew, as most people do

120
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 1: who meet Greg that you know. Yeah, it's just that

121
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,400
Speaker 1: quiet confidence, you know, where you know when he says

122
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,080
Speaker 1: things like the same show with ten percent, hope you're okay,

123
00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:35,960
Speaker 1: I think we're I think we're good to go here.

124
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,600
Speaker 1: That like mad like that, not a professor, but a genius. Yeah,

125
00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, but early on, when you're trying

126
00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,320
Speaker 1: to have this give and take conversation. You know, Greg

127
00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,600
Speaker 1: is a man of few words and sometimes you know,

128
00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,640
Speaker 1: kind of just sort of drifts off all together and

129
00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,800
Speaker 1: you and we kind of left haging there. Okay, So

130
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,360
Speaker 1: early on it took me a while to get the

131
00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,640
Speaker 1: rhythm of you know, he's not a guy where you're

132
00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,560
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, hitting it back all over the

133
00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,840
Speaker 1: net with some top spin on it. Like I think

134
00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,960
Speaker 1: Greig got that. How involved were you specifically, obviously you

135
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,960
Speaker 1: had final say, but in in the casting, how involved

136
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,880
Speaker 1: were you and choosing the people? Well, the casting is

137
00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,400
Speaker 1: something you ultimately have approval over at the network because

138
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,720
Speaker 1: it's it's really everything at the end of the day.

139
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:24,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you got to get the script right. But

140
00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,680
Speaker 1: the script right, with the wrong casting, you know, you're

141
00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:32,760
Speaker 1: you're dead, especially in comedy. And this was a in

142
00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,720
Speaker 1: some ways of fantasy casting process because first of all,

143
00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,200
Speaker 1: we were out of cycle, you know, so we didn't

144
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,199
Speaker 1: have to do this in the shotgun old pilot season

145
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:43,959
Speaker 1: lock and load. You know, you've got five minutes to

146
00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,040
Speaker 1: cast it. We had months and months to do it.

147
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,640
Speaker 1: And I have to say, I don't know how many

148
00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:51,480
Speaker 1: they went through. I was never privy to how many

149
00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,760
Speaker 1: came in, but all I know is, you know, the

150
00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,000
Speaker 1: trickiest one obviously was Michael, and it came down to

151
00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,280
Speaker 1: Bob Oton kirk uh and who's the that we end

152
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,760
Speaker 1: up casting in? What was this? CORRELLI? Yeah, how did

153
00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,320
Speaker 1: that work out? And so, you know, and I'd known

154
00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 1: Bob back from the Mr. Show days my former company

155
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:15,200
Speaker 1: H brill Stein Entertainment. We produced Mr. Show. And you know,

156
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 1: I thought Bob was a major talent, and by the way,

157
00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,040
Speaker 1: I had a great take on the character, a different one.

158
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,840
Speaker 1: So my involvement is I saw every audition for every

159
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,840
Speaker 1: character and they were just fantastic. You know. By the

160
00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,000
Speaker 1: sometimes this process can be really a struggle. You know,

161
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,240
Speaker 1: someone who brings it in and they go we found

162
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:34,640
Speaker 1: the guy, and you look at it and you go,

163
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,040
Speaker 1: this is this the guy you're talking about? All right? Boy,

164
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,920
Speaker 1: I am just not seeing it. We had none of those.

165
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,560
Speaker 1: I mean every time I was like, well, that's the guy.

166
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,320
Speaker 1: Then Jennet came in, Oh my god, that's her, and

167
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,079
Speaker 1: it was just right from the get go. I think

168
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,400
Speaker 1: everybody just made decisions and had a nudget in their

169
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,880
Speaker 1: own direction and it was a blast. And then guys

170
00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:57,560
Speaker 1: like you, you know, who were just coming out of

171
00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:01,199
Speaker 1: nowhere where wait, wait, where this guy come from? This

172
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:06,280
Speaker 1: is fantastic. How on board were you with the idea

173
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,199
Speaker 1: of total unknowns? I mean Steve had you know, had

174
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 1: Bruce Almighty? I had no, Well, he like Steve. I

175
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,920
Speaker 1: had done multiple busted pilots with Steve and several bad

176
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,240
Speaker 1: series that he had co starred in or been in.

177
00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,200
Speaker 1: He was always funny, and this goes back to the

178
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,640
Speaker 1: Dana Carvey Show with he Colbert and I mean it

179
00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,000
Speaker 1: was it's got It's got its own little weird cult.

180
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,560
Speaker 1: Following there was like a Netflix special about it, and

181
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,640
Speaker 1: at that time I was like, Wow, that guy Corrill

182
00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 1: is funny and he was always good. But it was

183
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 1: always good in a bad thing, you know, or something

184
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 1: that was okay but didn't take off. Actually, during the

185
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:48,559
Speaker 1: casting process when we were considering Steve, Stacy Snyder called

186
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,440
Speaker 1: me up. Was running Universal Pictures at the time, and

187
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,000
Speaker 1: that was our sister company. The feature side. He was

188
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:56,840
Speaker 1: doing forty year Old Virgin and she said, I'm gonna

189
00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,360
Speaker 1: send you some dailies. You should see them. And I

190
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,680
Speaker 1: was like, wow, this is a whole another gear for

191
00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,320
Speaker 1: this guy. And I don't want to say that was

192
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,600
Speaker 1: what sealed because, by the way, at that point, who

193
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 1: knows what that movie is getting. It's not like, oh,

194
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,840
Speaker 1: he's already a star, we'll just plug him in. And

195
00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,679
Speaker 1: then it was just one of those kids met kind

196
00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:40,720
Speaker 1: of things where it was just the right move. Okay,

197
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:45,040
Speaker 1: so you meet Greg, all these cast members, it gets

198
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,240
Speaker 1: picked up to a pilot. How has that received at NBC?

199
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,680
Speaker 1: It wasn't you know, it wasn't shown widely. Um. David

200
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,840
Speaker 1: Kissinger was running the studio at the time, was also

201
00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,240
Speaker 1: really an advocate and passionate for this, and he was

202
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,920
Speaker 1: a co conspirator with me, but it was still delivered

203
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,360
Speaker 1: it to me, and I would just say it was

204
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:09,600
Speaker 1: very slow. I was like, Okay, I can see the

205
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,200
Speaker 1: show in there, but but man, we are defying people's

206
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,280
Speaker 1: patients here. Like editorially, it needed a lot of sculpting.

207
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,040
Speaker 1: You could see the comedy, you could see the characters.

208
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,040
Speaker 1: That was not a concern. Those are one of the

209
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,520
Speaker 1: big eases. Oh no, we've got wrong people, or this

210
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,280
Speaker 1: guy is not delivering she's terrible. No, that was not

211
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,400
Speaker 1: the issue. What was working. What was working, But you

212
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,240
Speaker 1: know that narrative was sort of going. And I would

213
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:34,840
Speaker 1: say one of the biggest things I had to work

214
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,680
Speaker 1: with Greg on is was just looking in network television.

215
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:40,160
Speaker 1: You had to get through act breaks, you had to

216
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,679
Speaker 1: go sell toothpaste in the middle, and so I'd say, like,

217
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,360
Speaker 1: you know, Greg, we just sort of trail off here

218
00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,520
Speaker 1: on these act breaks, and you know, we lose the

219
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,400
Speaker 1: narrative thread and that's kind of fun, but we gotta

220
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,640
Speaker 1: we gotta sculptu. I think Greg went back and this

221
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,560
Speaker 1: is really, I think where we've forged Dart relationship, because

222
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,280
Speaker 1: it could have been brutal, and at least I thought

223
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,600
Speaker 1: it was a creatively fun thing. I think he did

224
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,439
Speaker 1: four team cuts of the pilot. It may have been sixteen,

225
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 1: you'd have to ask Greg, but it was double digits

226
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 1: and really, really, and that's where I saw really his

227
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,200
Speaker 1: true gift that he could find find it and he

228
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:23,840
Speaker 1: knew where it was and he could hunt for it

229
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,439
Speaker 1: in everyone. It was just Sharper and Sharper and Sharper,

230
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,360
Speaker 1: and you could I could just see it, right, Yeah, wow,

231
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,720
Speaker 1: And so they that we had time again, had this

232
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,840
Speaker 1: been done in pilot season, these are the vagaries of

233
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:37,960
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Had this been done, even with my

234
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,200
Speaker 1: support and love. Had we had only the time, had

235
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,280
Speaker 1: this been the usual way pilot season was down, You

236
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,720
Speaker 1: shot in sometime April, you had a sometimes days to editive,

237
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,280
Speaker 1: not weeks, because you had to go deliver it and

238
00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:51,920
Speaker 1: test it and do this thing and then boom and

239
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,440
Speaker 1: then screen it. You know, sometimes many of these pilots

240
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,240
Speaker 1: are screened off of two cuts. If we had done

241
00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:02,719
Speaker 1: that dead Dead again, I loved it, and I was like, wow,

242
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,240
Speaker 1: when this names work and we had time to do

243
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,720
Speaker 1: the work. So now we were sitting the other part

244
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,800
Speaker 1: when you were playing the system was you didn't want

245
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,240
Speaker 1: to be into early. You want to hit a sweet

246
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,600
Speaker 1: spot when they're dying to see something new and maybe

247
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,600
Speaker 1: you've got a shot just psychically, oh here's something. We

248
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 1: could be the next thing, and you kind of get

249
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,160
Speaker 1: in there and you don't want to be the leading edge.

250
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,160
Speaker 1: You don't want to be the last one. And this

251
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,080
Speaker 1: thing just sat and sat and sad, sad, and as

252
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,360
Speaker 1: it got exposed through the system, let's just say there

253
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:37,840
Speaker 1: the system wasn't overly responsive. Yeah, I mean, look the

254
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,600
Speaker 1: network at that point, had you know I had started

255
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,320
Speaker 1: my career at NBC, I was there for six of

256
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 1: the great years coming up, the heyday of NBC, the

257
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,280
Speaker 1: great and great things we're in a tart to cover

258
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,480
Speaker 1: in the network. I remember looking at his office and

259
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,000
Speaker 1: at some point it done to me, I don't wonder

260
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,520
Speaker 1: if I could ever have that job. And now I

261
00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 1: came back and got his job and was sitting in

262
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,920
Speaker 1: in his office and literally, you know, I closed the

263
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,880
Speaker 1: door and I had a moment. I looked up and

264
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:11,200
Speaker 1: I I felt so great and about and just amazing.

265
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,640
Speaker 1: I'm sitting literally at Brandon's desk, looking at the monitors

266
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,200
Speaker 1: on the wall, and then I had this sinking feeling

267
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,440
Speaker 1: that I made a horrible, horrible mistake, which it was

268
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,520
Speaker 1: because the wheels were coming off the momentum. It turn.

269
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,880
Speaker 1: I came in telling everybody we need a new breath

270
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,480
Speaker 1: of fresh air, and this place is in trouble. And

271
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,640
Speaker 1: after decades of winning, a lot of the ethos inside

272
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,520
Speaker 1: the building was we know what we're doing, and it

273
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,040
Speaker 1: was a little like who is this guy? And I

274
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,400
Speaker 1: also didn't learn the concept of corporate buy in. You know,

275
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,280
Speaker 1: when you come into a company really anywhere, you know

276
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:47,880
Speaker 1: it's not a new different on a team. You know,

277
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,120
Speaker 1: if a coach takes over team. You gotta win over

278
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,280
Speaker 1: people's comments like all right, we'll follow you, we'll listen.

279
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,440
Speaker 1: You can't just come in now. Once people are bottomed

280
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 1: out and are desperate, you got a shot. But until

281
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,240
Speaker 1: that happens. And so I came in thinking things like

282
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 1: the office, like this is exactly what we need to do,

283
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 1: and just a lot of people were like, no, no,

284
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 1: we need the next version of that's sexy single girl

285
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 1: in New York who's lives with some friends, and they're like, no, no,

286
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,480
Speaker 1: we really don't. There was still this sort of thing

287
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,880
Speaker 1: that lived on in the building post friends of you know, no, no,

288
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,840
Speaker 1: we want funny, but they're gonna be sexy too, right,

289
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,160
Speaker 1: I mean, we need that, And that had just made

290
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,560
Speaker 1: its way into comedy, which was never part of comedy,

291
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,000
Speaker 1: you know. I mean comedy was like funny period. And

292
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,000
Speaker 1: uh so that was still a little bit in the

293
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 1: wind of like wait a manune, this is a group

294
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 1: of misfits. So this kind of just seemed like the

295
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,960
Speaker 1: opposite of at least what everyone thought we needed. Right, well,

296
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 1: I it's so fascinating the idea of we had this opportunity,

297
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,760
Speaker 1: we were handed this jewel this great idea, this show

298
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 1: from London, and everybody just kind of wanted to do

299
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,720
Speaker 1: the best that we could, to do something different, which

300
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,760
Speaker 1: is what you're talking about. You're up against this old

301
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 1: guard and and people who have done it in a

302
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,160
Speaker 1: certain way. And Greg was saying, no, we're gonna have writers.

303
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,479
Speaker 1: We're gonna have writers act in the show right now.

304
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,320
Speaker 1: We're gonna not have a wall that we can move

305
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,960
Speaker 1: because we're a documentary, right and we're going to hire

306
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,439
Speaker 1: actors that are not that are me unknown. Even the

307
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,679
Speaker 1: stupid debates over the Doctor, I had to listen to

308
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,800
Speaker 1: opinions of people saying, you know, Americans associate documentaries with

309
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:35,520
Speaker 1: heaviness and non commercial. It's just an obstructive format to

310
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,040
Speaker 1: most Americans, and you're doing a comedy through that format

311
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 1: by its nature. And I'm just listening, Oh my god, really,

312
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,919
Speaker 1: and I'm some of these people they were professionals, but

313
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,520
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking, what do you know? And what are

314
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,439
Speaker 1: you talking about? Right? But how confident were you that

315
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,879
Speaker 1: it could translate to a broadcast audience because yeah, at

316
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,720
Speaker 1: the time, single camera, mock documentary, no laugh track, nothing

317
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,119
Speaker 1: like that was on network Talible. Yeah, what I felt

318
00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 1: all along for a minute. One is an office comedy

319
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,560
Speaker 1: is a staple of television, So yeah, the form is different,

320
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,520
Speaker 1: the tone is certainly different. The leads attitude is really different.

321
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, you're not gonna

322
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,360
Speaker 1: look at going I don't understand what what is it?

323
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,399
Speaker 1: They're in an office and I always clung to that

324
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,960
Speaker 1: all the way through. But that it's just one of

325
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,000
Speaker 1: the things I just loved about it. I love the

326
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 1: outpost in the middle of nowhere. I love the the

327
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,040
Speaker 1: boss who's in this island, who is free to just

328
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 1: run rough shot over everybody, And uh, Jim, I can't

329
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,440
Speaker 1: remember the exact line. Maybe you do in the pilot,

330
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,199
Speaker 1: you know where they say, you know, describe what you

331
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,200
Speaker 1: do and he's like, well, what's paper products and processing?

332
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,119
Speaker 1: And we moved the skids into thing And I'm just

333
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 1: I'm boring myself out. Is that for me embodied the

334
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,840
Speaker 1: whole show, you know, like, wait, we don't actually even

335
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 1: know why we come to work or what we really

336
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,000
Speaker 1: accomplished every day, right right? So I was told it

337
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,680
Speaker 1: was the worst testing show in the history of NBC.

338
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 1: I don't know it was the worst testing, but it was.

339
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 1: It was bad. The worst testing that maybe made it.

340
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,480
Speaker 1: It was certainly in that pack, I mean, of the

341
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 1: ones that made it. It was it was really down there, right,

342
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,479
Speaker 1: So what was the idea behind giving five more episodes? Like?

343
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 1: Did you have to fight to get those five? Yeah?

344
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 1: First of all, and at this point two things happened

345
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:24,640
Speaker 1: through the course of the show for me, and I'll

346
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 1: give you this the first part. At this point, I'm thinking,

347
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 1: I really think the rebuild of NBC is going to happen,

348
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 1: and this is going to be one of those pieces.

349
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,440
Speaker 1: And I looked at the rest of the platiff stuff

350
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 1: we had, which was ship So it's not like I go, Wow,

351
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaker 1: I got ten other great things. I just said, look,

352
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 1: this is going to be a slog, but this is good.

353
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 1: This is just good, and we're gonna go with We're

354
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,919
Speaker 1: gonna start with greatness. And first of all, I have

355
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 1: noted this before, but for the way the stupid pilot

356
00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,399
Speaker 1: screening process used to work at these broadcasts at works

357
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: was everybody would fly out, and the East Coast guys

358
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 1: and the heads of sports and the heads of affiliate

359
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 1: relations and sales and research and all the all the

360
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 1: middle aged white guys would fly out and sit in

361
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,640
Speaker 1: the room and you know, tell stories, and then you'd

362
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,360
Speaker 1: rotate around and screen all the pilots, and people would

363
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,400
Speaker 1: rank them and put numbers on them, and then you'd

364
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 1: come in and debate and decide, and you'd have to

365
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 1: kind of hear all of that. Now, when things are

366
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:27,760
Speaker 1: going well and you have a hot hand of the

367
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 1: present entertainment, you go through that process, but they are

368
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,439
Speaker 1: either not pushing back on you, or you have the

369
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 1: ability to go, well, that's great, Brian, thanks, thanks for that.

370
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 1: That's fantastic input, and then just go ignore it. But

371
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 1: when the network starts to get on wobbly legs and

372
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 1: I had not again established credibility, people knew me, they

373
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,479
Speaker 1: liked me, they're recruited me for the job. But at

374
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 1: this point I seem to be now uh, advocating for

375
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 1: things that don't look like what they're supposed to look like.

376
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 1: And this is identified as a problem early on, and

377
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: so that gave other players more power to come up

378
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 1: and say, let me tell you why this isn't gonna work,

379
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 1: and then they had the research. Now, so we come

380
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 1: out of this pilot screening process and every room is

381
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 1: giving it. You know, ten is the best zero, we're

382
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 1: going to give it a point five, you know, or

383
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 1: or one. You know. Well, nobody likes it except one room.

384
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,880
Speaker 1: I go down, and honestly, it was the only room

385
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 1: I was interested in. The room filled with the assistance

386
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: and the associates and all the young people, and that

387
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 1: was the biggest rumor. Actually they were at like forty

388
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,400
Speaker 1: people in there, and I go in and they said,

389
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 1: what do you guys think? And I remember they take

390
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 1: away is this not only is this the best thing

391
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 1: we've done, it's the only thing we would watch that

392
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,360
Speaker 1: you're making, and it's kind of the only thing we'd

393
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 1: watch and what's currently on the air. And I was like,

394
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 1: thank you very much, that's all I need to know. Wow,

395
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 1: And like unequivocally that room was we are in even

396
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 1: with the first pilot, still hadn't It hadn't even become

397
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: the show it was. They just could they were it,

398
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 1: and I knew it was going to be the young

399
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 1: audience that we're going to cling to, but that meant

400
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 1: nothing still in selling it. It still wasn't the five

401
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 1: episodes order. And also Greg, look, Greg had made some

402
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: money on King of the Hill, so he was willing

403
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: if he had if he had fought and said I

404
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: want to he he cut his rate. He was willing

405
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 1: to take the shorter order. He could have stood on

406
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: principle and said I'm not doing it. I'm not doing

407
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: six and you know, I'm on a d cents on

408
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: the dollar and that, and then it would have been dead.

409
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: But he he loved it, and he was willing to

410
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: take the short And that's really basically all I could

411
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: cobble out was that initial six episode mid season order, right,

412
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: I love that story. And and a side note, I'm

413
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 1: sure you don't know this, but like on the set,

414
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 1: I was the I was kind of the business. Like

415
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 1: the business of television really interested me. So we aired

416
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: on Thursday nights or whatever, and we would be in

417
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 1: the makeup trailer and I would be going through the

418
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,479
Speaker 1: numbers and and giving perspective as to why the numbers

419
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 1: might be where they are, how they were related the

420
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: night before. But March Madness is on right now, so

421
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: it's going to be like that was just that was

422
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: what interested me so well. There certainly wasn't a lot

423
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 1: of good news in those numbers. There were those first

424
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: six episodes. It First of all, the network had very

425
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: little momentum. You know, if this were still the days

426
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 1: where we had big shows, we could have parked it

427
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: in between. It might have been protected. But at this

428
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: point in mid season the network kind of went from

429
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: bad to worse. During the year, we were beginning to

430
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 1: just grind down. Uh that by the by marches, like

431
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: people a kind of established what they're liking and not liking,

432
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: and we bring the show on and it premier. There

433
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: were definitely there were reviewers that liked it that I

434
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: claimed I I will say Bill Carter from New York

435
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: Times from minute one. Bill Carter said, this is the

436
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: best show I've seen in years, and I love it

437
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: and I'm in And he was a huge advocate for you.

438
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: Do you think that there was any impact so after

439
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: the initial six that were given originally, now the ratings

440
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: were better. That second year we had My name is

441
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: earle Yes. That show ended up because that show came

442
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: out hot, we tucked it in behind I remember, and

443
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: it was around Christmas time. I literally was like a

444
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: Christmas gift to me where and you know, we had

445
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: done the deal with Apple if you remember, early on

446
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: the early iPhone ads or iTunes ads rather featured it

447
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: in the stores, and then Steve had had the movie

448
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: it hit, So I'm saying, wait, wait a minute, here,

449
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: wait a minute, we're getting a little Steve's now becoming

450
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: a thing. And look at that where iTunes is going

451
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: to be a thing, and we're they like us, and

452
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: we're starting to get little pockets of support and people

453
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: are starting to talk about it. And I remember waking

454
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: up and at this point, I'm really beginning to be

455
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: on the ropes. And I wake up one morning in

456
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: like um going into the holidays, and the show actually grew,

457
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: It actually grew, and its stabilized. It was a respectable rating,

458
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: and I honestly, I think I don't admit it, but

459
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: I might have teared up. I mean I really might

460
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: have teared up. Right well, we were certainly at the time,

461
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: I mean when we was sort of like this this

462
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: confluence of events, as you said, with forty year old

463
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: virgin Um. Suddenly there's Apple stores and our pictures are

464
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 1: are on these new things called, you know, the iPod video,

465
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: and we're suddenly the number one show on iTunes. I

466
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: feel like from the beginning you had the foresight that

467
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: you know, the way that that ratings happened with the

468
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: Nielsen boxes. They're looking at households. No one's looking at colleges,

469
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: no one's looking at dorms in college. There was the

470
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: larger thing of what I felt culturally is it was

471
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: the canary in the coal mine for where we are today. Look,

472
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,959
Speaker 1: there's always been a generational turning of the page where

473
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: you know, the young people are want the next thing.

474
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: I could see that happening, which is the sensibility. But

475
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: then something that really the powers that we were passing

476
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: by is the platform itself, the viewing experience itself. It

477
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: ended up being a really smart thing, like, you know what,

478
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 1: let's get out in front with this thing that seems

479
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: to be where it's headed, and that's where young people

480
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,959
Speaker 1: wanted to see it. Well, also that you put it

481
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: on my Space the week before it premiered, like you

482
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: were already using whatever platform we could get it out

483
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: on and just or you know, either legally or illegally.

484
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 1: I don't even know where it was getting passed around,

485
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: but it was clear something was happening. Right. Um, So

486
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: you talk about iTunes, you know, the video iPod on

487
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: this Christmas episode and it's the first one that goes

488
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: over ten million. There was something else that happened during

489
00:26:54,680 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 1: this time. The webisodes, the original online content on NBC. Yeah, yeah,

490
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: and again we these were early days of you know,

491
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: this webisode thing was starting to bubble up, and some

492
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 1: shows were doing them mostly really pretty lame, to be honest,

493
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: But then ours actually weren't lame, right. We did the

494
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: The Accountants, which was Oscar and Angela and um and

495
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: they were becoming a thing and ended up winning and yeah,

496
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: which was that was another amazing thing, and so that

497
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: this kind of content wasn't crappy ancillary thing. In fact,

498
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: Greg would have now never allowed it to happen because

499
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: he just wouldn't. He just wouldn't endorse that. But the

500
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: fact that you're like, wow, these things are really good

501
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: and people love these and it's becoming a way to

502
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: stay attached to that, and I just I couldn't nobody

503
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: could have really predicted that the changes that ultimately came.

504
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: The weird thing for me having been at NBC and

505
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 1: good go back, in my heart of hearts, I still

506
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,959
Speaker 1: believed and it is you know NBC, I mean network television.

507
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 1: The year I started in it came or came out

508
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: here to get into show. If You Go Back was

509
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: the first year that the Wall Street analysts were beginning

510
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: to declare network television the dinosaur. So it's death had

511
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: been premier for you because cable was statistically on the rise. Now,

512
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: obviously decades and decades and decades of billions of dollars

513
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: and tremendous cultural impact was created. So I still believed

514
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: that this platform of NBC, which it did, was still

515
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: a great place to nurture incredible television. With that said,

516
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: I think the powers that were there still were believing

517
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: that it was just one show away from coming back.

518
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: And in my heart, I said, guys, it's never coming back.

519
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: That was the thing that I knew. It is never

520
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: going to be what it was, and you have to

521
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: find what that new thing is, and this show is

522
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: built for that. Whatever that new thing is, this show

523
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: is built for that. But even the tone, the scrappy,

524
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: kind of like bleak looking doc you that tone allowed

525
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: you to then make a webisode out of it. Some

526
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: shows you in a webisode you're like, well, that's not

527
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: the drama I watched, and that's so that's a really cheap,

528
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: bad version. Well this just felt very organic that like,

529
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: well we make it the same way we make the

530
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: show right right, right right, and that felt very viral

531
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: and very you know of the web. And again we

532
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: were just fumbling our way through. But you got the

533
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: young audience, they just knew it and caught on. And

534
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 1: so that's why it thrived, and that's what ultimately the

535
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: culture and the landscape has caught up for this thing

536
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: to then just have this next surge of life. So

537
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: you were talking about, I'm gonna show you a picture

538
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: from August September of two thousand and six. Yeah, I

539
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: have the picture of my office. Yeah, and it's a

540
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: picture of Kevin being picked up by Rain and John

541
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: Um and the look on your face and us winning

542
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: the Primetime Emmy for Best Comedy. Oh my god, what

543
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: a night, huh And what a night and just your

544
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: courage too to have stuck with the show and getting

545
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: recognized now for that must have been pretty special. Amazing.

546
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: You know that that that expression on my face is

547
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: for me because I did ultimately get fired, so did

548
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: save my job. But I will say that it Uh,

549
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, I got into this business all I ever

550
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: want to do as a kid. I no idea what

551
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: it was. I didn't even know how to get in.

552
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: I didn't even know what I wanted to do. But

553
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: those are the kind of moments that are rare where

554
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,719
Speaker 1: you're going, we're doing good work with good people, and

555
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,719
Speaker 1: they're all doing it for the right reasons, and you know,

556
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: the like defying the odds and then having that moment

557
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: of recognition with people who are also then so gracious. Look,

558
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: I've worked with really talented people who some people are

559
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: really talent, they're not so great to crazy and this

560
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: was just a really special thing. You know that. The

561
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,959
Speaker 1: tricky thing about Joe business is a lot of times, uh,

562
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: you know, you don't want to meet your heroes because

563
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: what goes on behind the cameras is not really what

564
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: you pictured that group of people to be. In this case,

565
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: I think it really was, you know. I mean, for

566
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: the most part, I would have to say like, yeah, yeah,

567
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: well you the love and respect that everyone who I

568
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: talked to who comes into this room for you and

569
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: your fight to keep it on the air, and we

570
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: all believe being responsible for us having done over two

571
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: d episodes, that's a legacy. I think that. Well, well

572
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: it's so it's you know, life is full of ironies,

573
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: you know, and um, I was always proud of it.

574
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: It did go on to stay on the air, but

575
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: NBC then, you know, they had then invited me to

576
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,239
Speaker 1: no longer do that job. And uh, you know, there

577
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: were crop of shows I put on that I was

578
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: proud of. You know, the thirty Rocks and Front Night

579
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: Lights were on there. Here's we had a crop of

580
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: good shows that kind of for the next ten years.

581
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: You know, this is the thing about The Office, you know,

582
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: the show that that you know was going to be

583
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: a real problem was one of the only things that

584
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: endured that was worth hanging onto through that really brutal

585
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: time for that organization, and and everyone kind of felt like, wow,

586
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: great run, great show, Let's move on. And then you

587
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: get this crazy moment in time where that Canary in

588
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: the coal Mine really happened, which is the show that

589
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: was ahead of its time with the young people who

590
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: said that's the only thing we're gonna watch. Now there's

591
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: a new platform called subscription video on demand, and it

592
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: finds its way to that platform, and those people are

593
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: now in their forties and there's new people coming up

594
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: discovering it for the first time, and this thing has

595
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: this crazy, way bigger now it wasn't any and I

596
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: don't know if you've heard this figure, um, something like

597
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: fifty two point three billion with a B minutes streamed

598
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: on Netflix alone and by pretty much any metric that

599
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: I can figure out, the most watch show in television

600
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: right now, and we haven't filmed in five to six.

601
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: Finally finally won the title, right, it's crazy. Yeah, it's

602
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: finally ended up in the place where it was kind

603
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: of meant to be. All along, Kevin, Thank you again.

604
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: It's so good to see. It's great city crossed me.

605
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: I could I could do two more hours. Oh well,

606
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Alright, guys, sadly we have to

607
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: say goodbye to Kevin because he has to get back

608
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: to I don't know, saving the next best show on

609
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: television probably Now I have to tell you this. I

610
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: wanted to wait till the end. I had not seen

611
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 1: Kevin Riley in many, many years when he sat down

612
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: with me to do this interview, and I wasn't sure

613
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: how it was going to go, all right. I didn't

614
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: know how willing he would be to talk about the show.

615
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: But at the end I could not have been happier

616
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: and more touched by his openness, his generosity, and his

617
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 1: willingness truly to go back to that time in his life.

618
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: So thank you, Kevin for taking the time and for

619
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: being so thoughtful. Um I look forward to seeing you

620
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: again very soon. To the rest of you, thank you

621
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: for listening. I appreciate it and we will. Oh. I

622
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: promise you this. We will be back next week. So

623
00:34:54,080 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: come join me, yeah the Office. Deep Dive is hosted

624
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive

625
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producer

626
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: is Adam Massias, our associate producer is Emily Carr, and

627
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: our assistant editor is Diego Tapia. My main man in

628
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and

629
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: Squeak performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the

630
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: episode was mixed by seth Olandscape