WEBVTT - The Made-up Disease of Syndrome K 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:13.800 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and Chuck's 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:16.400 here too, and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.079 you should know the podcast. 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:23.720 That's right with a sort of a lesser known story 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:26.279 I think, I think probably most people know, thanks to 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:31.800 Steven Spielberg, the story of Oscar Schindler saving about twelve 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:36.280 hundred Jews from the Nazis. But this is a smaller 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:41.640 story where Italian doctors saved probably about fifty to one 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:42.479 hundred Jews. 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.120 Yeah, depending on who you ask. And yeah, that is 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:46.599 certainly nothing to sneeze at. 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:49.440 Now ask the families of those people, you know. 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.680 Oh, yeah, for sure, you know. Yeah. Before we get 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:54.400 any further, Chuck, I have to I want to give 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:58.240 a hat tip to a listener named Jesselyne Baldwin who 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:02.279 wrote in Many Moons Go and suggested this. I had 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.080 not heard of syndrome K before. 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:04.800 I had neither. 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.080 And there's a pretty it's surprising because there's a pretty 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.200 decent little hour long documentary on it too. 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:11.600 Yeah, it was a good one. 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.199 So yeah, it's a it's a pretty neat, little overlook story. 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.200 And I love. Those are some of my favorites. Getting 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:19.520 to tell people something they had no idea about. 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:20.560 That's right. 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:28.080 So this is just in general, like Italy and what 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.600 happened in Italy and what Italy did during World War 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:32.520 Two was always just kind of been a blank to me. 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:36.240 I knew Minnilini was the leader. I knew they were 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:37.640 on the side with the. 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:39.920 Nazis the access I knew that too. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.919 And that's about it, honestly, to tell you the truth. 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.640 I'm with you, man, I don't know. I feel like 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.520 the I feel like Japan and Germany for some reason, 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:54.720 get probably because of Pearl Harbor, and then Hiroshima and Nagasaki, 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.520 and then the Germans because of you know, obvious reasons. 0:01:58.720 --> 0:01:59.920 Yeah, but I don't know. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.400 And I also did not know a lot about Italy 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:04.279 and World War Two until the past few days. 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.480 No, And Italy at the time too was, as you know, 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:10.800 for a few decades before World War Two is a 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:16.120 pretty large regional power, had a lot of stakes in 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:20.160 other countries, either by just basically conquering the country or 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:25.560 having some sort of say over its doings, usually by 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:29.720 conquering it like Ethiopia, Libya. I think Albania. They had 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.959 just just overrun, like right before World War Two. They 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:38.320 did what Europeans did, especially fascist Europeans, because that was 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.000 what Mussolini was. He was a fascist. He was one 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:43.560 of the firsts. He was a fascist before Hitler even, 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.400 And as a fascist is like, you want to basically 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:50.240 make everybody else a fascist too, so you invade other 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:51.240 countries typically. 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:55.200 Yeah, and I'd love the Europeans and Europe as a whole. 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.280 I hope that didn't come across as like, that's what 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:00.600 Europeans do, but that's what many European entries did for 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:01.680 many hundreds of years. 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:05.680 Yeah, no, it's true. It's the facts, Chuck. Okay, so 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:08.359 there are a couple of things we have to talk about. 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:11.240 In the lead up to World War Two. Mussolini was 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:18.560 appointed prime Minister by King Victor Emmanuel the Second, who 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:22.200 was the King of Italy. Another thing, I did not 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:24.880 realize that the king appointed Mussolini. 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:29.720 Okay, did you. I don't think I knew that. 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.040 Well. I think we should just point out everything we 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.000 didn't know throughout this entire episode every chance we get. 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:37.440 Okay, Yeah, it'd be really interesting. Nineteen twenty two. I 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:38.320 didn't know it was that year. 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:42.880 Yeah, he was the prime minister as of nineteen twenty two. 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:49.200 He very quickly put together essentially a huge fascist power 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:53.960 that seemed to kind of live alongside the monarchy's power. 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:58.200 In Italy. There was almost like two governments, and Mussolini's 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.920 fascists were very powerful at the time. By the end 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:06.080 of the nineteen twenties early nineteen thirties, he was pretty 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:07.440 solidly in control. 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:10.920 Yeah, And of course this is all in a lead 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.040 up to the syndrome case story, but it just sort 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.720 of paints a nice picture of what was going on 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.960 there at the time. Italy had spent a lot of 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:27.039 Italian soldiers' lives and campaigns Furthered campaigns in Libya in 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:32.920 the nineteen twenties and Ethiopia in the nineteen thirties, kind 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:37.600 of concentrating on places in Northern Africa and the Mediterranean 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.640 where Italy had these colonies set up. Like everyone was 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:42.719 trying to get their little piece of other places, like 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.200 you said, and a lot of Italy's was in Northern Africa. 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.160 Yes, there are a couple other things we need to 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.880 touch upon that become kind of part of the fabric 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.560 or the backdrop of this story one took place in 0:04:55.640 --> 0:05:00.080 nineteen twenty nine. It's when the Italian government made a 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.520 treaty with the Vatican, with the Pope and all the 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:09.400 Pope's dudes. Yeah, that was called the Lateran Treaty, and 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.920 it basically said the Vatican and Vatican City is an 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:16.520 independent state within Rome. It still is today. It's the 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:20.240 smallest independent nation according to the syndroom K documentary by 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.160 population and by size, it's like one hundred acres or 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.680 something really small, like Winnie the Poo's woods were bigger 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:27.760 than Vatican City. 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:32.400 Yeah. I walked around it by accident one time because 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.400 we did not know, my friend and I that it 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.479 was like there wasn't a cutthrough or we just kept 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.159 doing that thing. And actually you can check this out 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.280 in your what to Do when you get lost in 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.080 your stuff. You should know stuff kids should know book. 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:46.960 Nice. 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.720 But we just figured, well, let's just keep going this 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:53.440 way and it's bound to do something, and it didn't. 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:55.760 We just kept walking until we came all the way around. 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.040 You didn't paint like a fluorescent orange blaze onto one 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.120 of the pillars or called that you came across. 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.200 No, we should have. But yeah, so they recognize Vatican City. 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:09.200 What this did was, you know, if it didn't necessarily 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.719 make the Vatican beholden to Mussolini, it did create a 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.440 situation where they couldn't just kind of freely say like, hey, 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.800 don't commit as much genocide. That's not cool. 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.799 Yeah, they had a huge they had something huge to lose. 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.040 It was very new and very fragile still, and they 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.479 had gotten it from the people they would be opposing 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:30.440 in this case, right. 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:31.000 Yeah. 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.599 The other thing was it took place nine years later, 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.600 and this was I just want to point out another 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.960 thing I didn't realize Italy had done in World War Two. 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:43.800 They enacted their own anti Semitic race laws starting in 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.800 nineteen thirty eight, and they just kind of they started 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.320 pretty badly, like they were basically like if you're Jewish, 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:52.479 you can't like work in the government, you can't teach 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:56.760 in schools, and then it just got progressively worse until 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.360 it was like if you're Jewish, you can't own this 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:03.000 house and you can't have this bank account. It just 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.960 got worse and worse and worse, and excluded the Jewish Romans, 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.520 who were the oldest Jewish population in Europe from what 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:13.400 I understand a couple thousand year old population from being 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:15.840 a part of Italy in Italian life. 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.960 Yeah, absolutely, they were called an Italian, the Leggi Brazziali, 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.520 very nice. And it was not only Jews in Italy, 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:28.120 but you know those same native Africans in the north 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.600 that we were talking about in the Italian colonies. So 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.240 these racial laws were kind of subjugating all these people, 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.200 like literally banning books and seizing property and stuff like 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:41.600 that stuff fascists do. Yeah, exactly. They stopped short of, 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.000 you know, stuff like rounding people up for gas chambers 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.640 like the Germans did, but it was still like a 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:50.000 pretty terrible subjugation. 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:55.280 That's a big point though. The this is such a 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.920 sticky thing to talk about because the country enacted under 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:03.080 Mussolini anti Jewish laws. They were enforced to some degree. 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:07.400 There were Italian people who forced their Jewish neighbors out 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:09.200 of their homes and forced them to hand over their 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:16.440 bank accounts. This actually happened, but it does bear comparing 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:21.760 to the Nazis version of the same thing. Sure, and 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.640 the fact that it wasn't genocidal is a big deal. 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.400 And the fact that when the Germans came in to 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:32.760 start taking over Italy. It was in part because the 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:36.080 Italians were kind of dragging their feet on. They weren't 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:40.959 showing enough enthusiasm in their genocide against Jewish people in Italy. 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:44.720 They were kind of doing it lackadaisically. And from what 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.040 I saw, if you were Jewish and you made it 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.760 to southern Italy into one of their concentration camps, an 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.520 Italian concentration camp, you were pretty much safe for the 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:55.520 war and your kids were going to go to school. 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.960 It was just a different jam. But at the end 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:03.160 of the day, they still had anti Semitic race laws 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.840 that were enforced for a period during the late thirties 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:08.280 and early forties. 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:11.560 Right, but you know, many tens of thousands of more 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:15.000 were not exterminated, right like they would have been had 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:20.680 Germany been in charge. Yes, all right, So nineteen thirties, 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:25.800 Mussolini and Hitler eventually cozy up. They get together with 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:29.320 what was called the Pact of Steel, and the Nazis 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:33.520 invaded Poland in like September October nineteen thirty nine. Italy 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.880 was still not in the war at this point. It 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:37.839 didn't take them too long to jump in there, though, 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.360 because Mussolini basically was like, you know what, we have 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.400 some some area in North Africa and around the Mediterranean, 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:50.080 but we can probably expand on that because of war. However, 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:55.320 their military and his military because of Ethiopian because the 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:59.160 further invasion of Libya, were not decimated, but they were 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:04.920 fairly taxed at this point laughing about the ten percent thing. Yeah, 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.439 we'll probably get e meals. It was decimated times four 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.559 times four, and you know, the Brits were putting up 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.839 a pretty big fight in North Africa. Eventually, the US 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:19.760 would declare war on Japan after Pearl Harbor, and Mussolini 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.440 would in turn declare war right back on the United 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:25.480 States because he was like, I got to get on 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.360 on this, you know, on the full axis action here 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:31.160 and it probably you know, I have a feeling it'll 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:33.800 be a pretty quick affair. But it was not. 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:37.240 No, and by that time Mussolini was in too deep 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.200 to do anything about it except keep fighting. Right. 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:40.760 Yeah. 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.240 The problem is is by this time, by I think 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:47.760 nineteen forty three, he had sacrificed enough Italian lives, not 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.160 just in World War Two, remember in those campaigns prior 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:54.040 to World War Two, which is a good lesson against adventurism, 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:56.440 any stuff. You should know a listener out there, if 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:00.960 you ever become head of a nation state, don't go 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:05.240 off and try to conquer other neighbors because you never 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.160 know if there's a world warrior. Need to have your 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:08.960 resources for right around the corner. 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:10.080 That's a great lesson. 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.640 And so that's exactly what happened to Mussolini. So he 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:17.120 fell out of favor just he had just problem after 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.280 problem after problem, embarrassment after embarrassment, failure after failure. That 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.400 finally the Italian people are like, you're done, dude. 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:30.320 That's right. September nineteen forty three. September eighth, specifically, is 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:35.280 when Italy technically surrenders to the Allies. However, that didn't 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:38.720 mean Italy was just awesome all of a sudden previous 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.680 to this, And I believe the spring of nineteen forty three, 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.760 Hitler kind of saw the riding on the wall, didn't 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.800 fully trust Italy or Mussolini, and was like, you know what, 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:51.160 if Italy falls into the hands of the Allies, that's 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.120 really bad news for us. So they started sort of 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:58.040 arming up and sending troops in the spring of nineteen 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:03.520 forty three, and they're run up to the surrender that 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.280 Mussolini finally, like I said in September, underwent, and so 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:13.000 takeaway here is Germans were in Italy and well armed 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:17.120 and basically occupying Italy at the time of their surrender 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:18.000 in nineteen forty three. 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.960 Yeah, and yeah, Italy had not only surrendered, they had 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.040 now switched sides. They're like, we're with you, allies. We've 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.160 declared war on Germany, even though the Germans are occupying 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.320 us right now, even though our dictator is in jail. 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:34.040 It's a weird situation, but that was the situation in 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:34.960 nineteen forty three. 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.920 Like you say, yeah, well they were, you know, still 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.679 allies until the surrender. But it was a precarious thing 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:45.360 because like, Germany is like seriously occupying Italy in the 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.560 run up to the surrender, and it was just I 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.920 think everyone was pretty nervous at that point in Italy, 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:52.640 like certainly the citizens. 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.040 Yes, but they were also mad because they had gotten 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.959 rid of Mussolini and now they had the Germans, who 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.280 were just like out of the frying pan into the fire. 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:02.560 And by this time they had said, yeah, we're at 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.280 war with Germany. We don't want to have this, so 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:08.120 there was a pretty strong underground resistance that did like 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.400 attack German Nazi soldiers who were stationed in Italy. They 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.319 didn't have an easy time of it in Italy. I 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:15.239 guess I should. 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:20.240 Say absolutely, maybe we should take a break. Yeah, that's 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:24.720 a good geographical warlike setup, and then we can come 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:26.360 back and sort of talk about some of the key 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.520 people players in this story. 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:58.320 Right after this, So, Chuck, you mentioned a couple of 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:02.000 people who are of prominent players in this The first 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:06.199 two are despicable sobs. They were Nazis. One of them 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:10.240 was named Albert kessel Ring, the smiling Nazi general. I 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.920 saw he was. I saw he was Hitler's go to 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.240 guy in Southern European theater. He was in charge of 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:21.360 the Mediterranean, he was, by default then in charge of Italy. 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:22.760 He was. 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.320 A terrible person who ordered all sorts of terrible atrocities 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.560 to be done to civilians. Anything that happened to civilians, 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:32.640 it was under his watch. 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.200 Yeah, and he was a guy that was kind of 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.160 enacting the racial laws in northern Africa. 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.480 Yes, so yeah, I think we should say. I don't 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.240 know if we really got that point across. When the 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.640 Nazis took over Italy. They said, these racial laws are 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.600 now being enforced for reels, right, people are going to 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.760 start really getting deported. We're in charge now. And this 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:54.120 was the guy who was in. 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:58.280 Charge, that's right. So that's Kesserling. There's also another k 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:04.160 Herbert Kapler. He was an SS guy. He was the 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:09.280 German chief of police in Rome during the occupation and 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:11.480 he's notable for a lot of things he was. He's 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:16.000 an awful human and many atrocities committed under him, including 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.360 a very famous one called and I got to get 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:27.360 the pronunciation right here, the ardi Atina massacre. Okay, you 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:28.480 don't agree. 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:31.040 Yeah, no, I think you nailed it. Actually that's not 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.160 what I would have said, but I would have gotten 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:34.920 it wrong. I think you got it. It's a R 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.080 D E A T I N E. 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.160 Well, and this is also, you know, going by what 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.040 some pronunciation person says. 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:45.520 I would have added a syllable in there. I'm trying 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:46.560 to figure out a warrior. 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:50.040 Who who knows if they're ever correct, But that's what 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:54.040 I'm gonna call him. And that was a situation dealing 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:59.840 with the Atina Caves where they rounded up three hundred 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.760 and and this Is in retaliation for an attack on them. 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:05.880 But they rounded up they were told around up three 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.720 hundred and thirty Italians. They instead got three hundred and 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.960 thirty five Italians and they took them to these caves 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:15.080 and five at a time, made them get on their 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:16.760 knees and shot them in the back of the head. 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.880 Yeah, and then they dynamited the cave afterward so that 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:25.280 people couldn't get to them. That was like really par 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:30.400 for the course for the Nazim in Italy. The Italian 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:35.640 resistance would stage an attack on Nazi soldiers occupying their country, 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.400 and the Nazis would in turn kill ten times the 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:45.160 civilians something like that, just murdering cold blood, just hundreds 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.720 of civilians at a time. And do you realize, Chuck, 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.520 the resolve it takes for a resistance group to just 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:56.160 be like knowing that hundreds of people are going to 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:58.040 die because of the thing you're about to do the 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.960 Nazis and still having resolved to keep fighting. It's just 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.560 again bounding. So that was the plan, was the playbook, 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.960 and it happened all throughout Italy, especially from Rome up 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.800 to in the northern Italy under the watch of kessel 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:18.160 Ring and Kapler again, terrible, terrible human beings. 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:23.800 All right. So that's the situation. The Nazis are in Rome, 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.600 the Italians don't like the Nazis. The Vatican is sort 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.520 of there, not being able to say a whole lot. 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.160 They can't really get into the Nazis business, of course, 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:39.640 because again that same precarious situation with Vatican cities. Well 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:40.959 not stateship. What would you call it? 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:41.920 Just independence? 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.720 Yeah. Independence. So now we got to set a little 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:50.040 geography up. The Tiber River goes through Rome and there's 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:54.000 a tiny little island called Tiber Island. I think it's 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:56.800 the only island in the Rome area of the Tiber River, 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.040 and it is very small. It's about nine hundred feet 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.680 by two hundred and twenty feet and it's been around 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.560 forever and has been used throughout you know, the years 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:12.800 for various things, monasteries, I can't remember those, a couple 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.160 of other things, but it's connected, you know, by bridges 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:18.639 on both sides. And in the fifteen hundreds, for our story, 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:23.080 there was a Catholic order called the Hospitaller Order of 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.119 the Brothers of Saint John of God, who established a 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:31.520 hospital there where the monastery was and the hospital became 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.680 known as the Fata Beina Fratelli. 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.640 Not bet Yeah, yeah, okay, not bed. 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:40.720 What does that mean? Do good brothers? 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:45.719 Yes? Do fate bene good Fratelli brothers, do good brothers. 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.600 And the Ed helped us out with this, and he 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.800 makes a point like, does it mean do good brothers 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.359 or they're the do good brothers like the Doobie Brother's 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:56.120 original name. 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:58.480 Yeah, that sounds more like a duo wop group. 0:18:58.440 --> 0:18:58.840 It does. 0:18:59.400 --> 0:18:59.640 Yeah. 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.639 So the upshot of this is that in the fifteen hundreds, 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.399 this group of friars, Catholic friars, had a hospital up 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.280 and running on this island in the Tiber River, and 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:15.679 it remained in operation basically ever since that time. It 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.639 passed in and out of the Vatican's hands. But for 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.399 the purposes of our story, during nineteen forty three, the 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:27.760 Vatican was, I guess owned that hospital. It was operating 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.040 under Vatican control. 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.320 Yeah, And as such it became a sanctuary. Even though 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.240 you know, Jewish people and Catholic people had different faiths, 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.680 it did become a bit of a sanctuary for all 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:42.639 kinds of people because it was the Catholic Church and 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:46.680 they you know, have long had a history of welcoming 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:48.600 and helping people when they can well. 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:53.280 Also took it like geographically speaking, it linked the Jewish 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:57.200 ghetto in Rome, yeah, and the Vatican. On one side 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:00.560 of the bridge. It was the like, just across bridge 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.720 was the Jewish Ghetto. Just across the other bridge was 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.560 the Vatican. So it was it had its feet in 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.639 two different worlds and brought them all together kind of. 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.119 Absolutely. There was a guy there who ran the place, 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:18.119 a clergyman named a father Maurzio Bialec, and he was 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.640 in charge of the hospital. He was an anti fascist. 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:23.960 And as you'll see here what this guy does, it's 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.280 pretty amazing. He kind of very quietly and he was 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.440 sort of an anti fascist on the downlow because he 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:33.400 didn't want to cause a big stir, but he quietly 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:37.359 stocked the sort of the doctors and the staff with 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.880 anti fascists doctors and staff members. Yeah. 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:45.880 He put together like a Justice League but medical yeah. Yeah. 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:49.000 And I wonder if it was I wonder if his 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:53.040 reasoning was because he thought they they could eventually do 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.320 something like this, or if he was just like, hey, listen, 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:59.040 I'm anti fascist and I want to hire people like minded, 0:20:59.080 --> 0:20:59.600 people like me. 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.360 That or he was like, I am not spending eight 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:06.359 hours a day around fascists. I'll tell you exactly. It 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:08.880 was one of those. But the fact is this guy 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.360 was in charge. He was the hospital administrator. And one 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:15.560 of his first hires, very important hire, was a guy 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:20.679 named Giovanni Borromeo. He was a doctor and he was 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:28.480 very in step with father Biolick. He had very similar views, 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.080 and in fact he would he refused to join the 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.080 Fascist Party, and that really narrowed a lot of his 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:39.440 career prospects. He didn't necessarily get turned down by other hospitals, 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.840 but those hospitals required that he joined the Fascist Party. 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.240 He said thanks anyway. Finally, I don't know how he 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:49.679 was found by father Bilic, but he was, and he 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.879 was recruited and he was now the doctor in charge 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:53.639 of the hospital. 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.959 Yeah, so they team up, they kind of fill out 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.240 the staff with more anti fascists. Hooray. They bring the 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:04.760 facility into the modern age, which was you know again 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.800 at you know, nineteen thirty four modern for those times, 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:10.560 and they didn't have like laser surgery and stuff, is 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:15.720 what I'm saying. They weren't time travelers. Sure, so after 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:19.080 these racial laws, kind of kick in. In nineteen thirty eight. 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:21.560 This hospital, like we already said it was, you know, 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:23.880 it was a bit of a haven for all kinds 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:26.480 of people and certainly Jewish people, but it became even 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:30.400 more of a haven. And there was another guy who 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:36.400 was named Vittorio Sacra dootia animea. 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:40.159 Anytime in Italian there's a C followed directly by a vowel, 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:43.280 it makes a chiss sound. Oh okay, and then strangely, 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:48.080 the cch makes a cuss sound, so like okay, choo 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:55.320 ci or capiche, which is really interesting. I guess you 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:57.280 could say, I think. 0:22:57.240 --> 0:22:59.639