1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and Chuck's 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: here too, and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 2: you should know the podcast. 5 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: That's right with a sort of a lesser known story 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: I think, I think probably most people know, thanks to 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg, the story of Oscar Schindler saving about twelve 8 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: hundred Jews from the Nazis. But this is a smaller 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: story where Italian doctors saved probably about fifty to one 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: hundred Jews. 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, depending on who you ask. And yeah, that is 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 2: certainly nothing to sneeze at. 13 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: Now ask the families of those people, you know. 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, for sure, you know. Yeah. Before we get 15 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: any further, Chuck, I have to I want to give 16 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: a hat tip to a listener named Jesselyne Baldwin who 17 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 2: wrote in Many Moons Go and suggested this. I had 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 2: not heard of syndrome K before. 19 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: I had neither. 20 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: And there's a pretty it's surprising because there's a pretty 21 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 2: decent little hour long documentary on it too. 22 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a good one. 23 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,199 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a it's a pretty neat, little overlook story. 24 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: And I love. Those are some of my favorites. Getting 25 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 2: to tell people something they had no idea about. 26 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: That's right. 27 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 2: So this is just in general, like Italy and what 28 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 2: happened in Italy and what Italy did during World War 29 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: Two was always just kind of been a blank to me. 30 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: I knew Minnilini was the leader. I knew they were 31 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: on the side with the. 32 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: Nazis the access I knew that too. 33 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,919 Speaker 2: And that's about it, honestly, to tell you the truth. 34 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: I'm with you, man, I don't know. I feel like 35 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: the I feel like Japan and Germany for some reason, 36 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: get probably because of Pearl Harbor, and then Hiroshima and Nagasaki, 37 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: and then the Germans because of you know, obvious reasons. 38 00:01:58,720 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know. 39 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: And I also did not know a lot about Italy 40 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,279 Speaker 1: and World War Two until the past few days. 41 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: No, And Italy at the time too was, as you know, 42 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 2: for a few decades before World War Two is a 43 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: pretty large regional power, had a lot of stakes in 44 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 2: other countries, either by just basically conquering the country or 45 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: having some sort of say over its doings, usually by 46 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: conquering it like Ethiopia, Libya. I think Albania. They had 47 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 2: just just overrun, like right before World War Two. They 48 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: did what Europeans did, especially fascist Europeans, because that was 49 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: what Mussolini was. He was a fascist. He was one 50 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: of the firsts. He was a fascist before Hitler even, 51 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: And as a fascist is like, you want to basically 52 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 2: make everybody else a fascist too, so you invade other 53 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 2: countries typically. 54 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'd love the Europeans and Europe as a whole. 55 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: I hope that didn't come across as like, that's what 56 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: Europeans do, but that's what many European entries did for 57 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: many hundreds of years. 58 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's true. It's the facts, Chuck. Okay, so 59 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 2: there are a couple of things we have to talk about. 60 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 2: In the lead up to World War Two. Mussolini was 61 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: appointed prime Minister by King Victor Emmanuel the Second, who 62 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: was the King of Italy. Another thing, I did not 63 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: realize that the king appointed Mussolini. 64 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: Okay, did you. I don't think I knew that. 65 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: Well. I think we should just point out everything we 66 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: didn't know throughout this entire episode every chance we get. 67 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, it'd be really interesting. Nineteen twenty two. I 68 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: didn't know it was that year. 69 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was the prime minister as of nineteen twenty two. 70 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: He very quickly put together essentially a huge fascist power 71 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: that seemed to kind of live alongside the monarchy's power. 72 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: In Italy. There was almost like two governments, and Mussolini's 73 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: fascists were very powerful at the time. By the end 74 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 2: of the nineteen twenties early nineteen thirties, he was pretty 75 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: solidly in control. 76 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, And of course this is all in a lead 77 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: up to the syndrome case story, but it just sort 78 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: of paints a nice picture of what was going on 79 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: there at the time. Italy had spent a lot of 80 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: Italian soldiers' lives and campaigns Furthered campaigns in Libya in 81 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties and Ethiopia in the nineteen thirties, kind 82 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: of concentrating on places in Northern Africa and the Mediterranean 83 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: where Italy had these colonies set up. Like everyone was 84 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: trying to get their little piece of other places, like 85 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: you said, and a lot of Italy's was in Northern Africa. 86 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 2: Yes, there are a couple other things we need to 87 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: touch upon that become kind of part of the fabric 88 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: or the backdrop of this story one took place in 89 00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 2: nineteen twenty nine. It's when the Italian government made a 90 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 2: treaty with the Vatican, with the Pope and all the 91 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: Pope's dudes. Yeah, that was called the Lateran Treaty, and 92 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 2: it basically said the Vatican and Vatican City is an 93 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: independent state within Rome. It still is today. It's the 94 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: smallest independent nation according to the syndroom K documentary by 95 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 2: population and by size, it's like one hundred acres or 96 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 2: something really small, like Winnie the Poo's woods were bigger 97 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: than Vatican City. 98 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. I walked around it by accident one time because 99 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: we did not know, my friend and I that it 100 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: was like there wasn't a cutthrough or we just kept 101 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: doing that thing. And actually you can check this out 102 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: in your what to Do when you get lost in 103 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: your stuff. You should know stuff kids should know book. 104 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: Nice. 105 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: But we just figured, well, let's just keep going this 106 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: way and it's bound to do something, and it didn't. 107 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: We just kept walking until we came all the way around. 108 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: You didn't paint like a fluorescent orange blaze onto one 109 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: of the pillars or called that you came across. 110 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: No, we should have. But yeah, so they recognize Vatican City. 111 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: What this did was, you know, if it didn't necessarily 112 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: make the Vatican beholden to Mussolini, it did create a 113 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: situation where they couldn't just kind of freely say like, hey, 114 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: don't commit as much genocide. That's not cool. 115 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, they had a huge they had something huge to lose. 116 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 2: It was very new and very fragile still, and they 117 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 2: had gotten it from the people they would be opposing 118 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: in this case, right. 119 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 120 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 2: The other thing was it took place nine years later, 121 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 2: and this was I just want to point out another 122 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: thing I didn't realize Italy had done in World War Two. 123 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: They enacted their own anti Semitic race laws starting in 124 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty eight, and they just kind of they started 125 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: pretty badly, like they were basically like if you're Jewish, 126 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 2: you can't like work in the government, you can't teach 127 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 2: in schools, and then it just got progressively worse until 128 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 2: it was like if you're Jewish, you can't own this 129 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: house and you can't have this bank account. It just 130 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: got worse and worse and worse, and excluded the Jewish Romans, 131 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 2: who were the oldest Jewish population in Europe from what 132 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: I understand a couple thousand year old population from being 133 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 2: a part of Italy in Italian life. 134 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, they were called an Italian, the Leggi Brazziali, 135 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: very nice. And it was not only Jews in Italy, 136 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: but you know those same native Africans in the north 137 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: that we were talking about in the Italian colonies. So 138 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: these racial laws were kind of subjugating all these people, 139 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: like literally banning books and seizing property and stuff like 140 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: that stuff fascists do. Yeah, exactly. They stopped short of, 141 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, stuff like rounding people up for gas chambers 142 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: like the Germans did, but it was still like a 143 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: pretty terrible subjugation. 144 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 2: That's a big point though. The this is such a 145 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: sticky thing to talk about because the country enacted under 146 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: Mussolini anti Jewish laws. They were enforced to some degree. 147 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: There were Italian people who forced their Jewish neighbors out 148 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: of their homes and forced them to hand over their 149 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: bank accounts. This actually happened, but it does bear comparing 150 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: to the Nazis version of the same thing. Sure, and 151 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 2: the fact that it wasn't genocidal is a big deal. 152 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: And the fact that when the Germans came in to 153 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: start taking over Italy. It was in part because the 154 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 2: Italians were kind of dragging their feet on. They weren't 155 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 2: showing enough enthusiasm in their genocide against Jewish people in Italy. 156 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 2: They were kind of doing it lackadaisically. And from what 157 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: I saw, if you were Jewish and you made it 158 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: to southern Italy into one of their concentration camps, an 159 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: Italian concentration camp, you were pretty much safe for the 160 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: war and your kids were going to go to school. 161 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: It was just a different jam. But at the end 162 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 2: of the day, they still had anti Semitic race laws 163 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 2: that were enforced for a period during the late thirties 164 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 2: and early forties. 165 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: Right, but you know, many tens of thousands of more 166 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: were not exterminated, right like they would have been had 167 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: Germany been in charge. Yes, all right, So nineteen thirties, 168 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: Mussolini and Hitler eventually cozy up. They get together with 169 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: what was called the Pact of Steel, and the Nazis 170 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: invaded Poland in like September October nineteen thirty nine. Italy 171 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: was still not in the war at this point. It 172 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 1: didn't take them too long to jump in there, though, 173 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: because Mussolini basically was like, you know what, we have 174 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: some some area in North Africa and around the Mediterranean, 175 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: but we can probably expand on that because of war. However, 176 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: their military and his military because of Ethiopian because the 177 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: further invasion of Libya, were not decimated, but they were 178 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: fairly taxed at this point laughing about the ten percent thing. Yeah, 179 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 1: we'll probably get e meals. It was decimated times four 180 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 1: times four, and you know, the Brits were putting up 181 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 1: a pretty big fight in North Africa. Eventually, the US 182 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: would declare war on Japan after Pearl Harbor, and Mussolini 183 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: would in turn declare war right back on the United 184 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: States because he was like, I got to get on 185 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: on this, you know, on the full axis action here 186 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: and it probably you know, I have a feeling it'll 187 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: be a pretty quick affair. But it was not. 188 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 2: No, and by that time Mussolini was in too deep 189 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 2: to do anything about it except keep fighting. Right. 190 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. 191 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 2: The problem is is by this time, by I think 192 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: nineteen forty three, he had sacrificed enough Italian lives, not 193 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: just in World War Two, remember in those campaigns prior 194 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: to World War Two, which is a good lesson against adventurism, 195 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 2: any stuff. You should know a listener out there, if 196 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 2: you ever become head of a nation state, don't go 197 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: off and try to conquer other neighbors because you never 198 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 2: know if there's a world warrior. Need to have your 199 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 2: resources for right around the corner. 200 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: That's a great lesson. 201 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 2: And so that's exactly what happened to Mussolini. So he 202 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: fell out of favor just he had just problem after 203 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 2: problem after problem, embarrassment after embarrassment, failure after failure. That 204 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 2: finally the Italian people are like, you're done, dude. 205 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: That's right. September nineteen forty three. September eighth, specifically, is 206 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: when Italy technically surrenders to the Allies. However, that didn't 207 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: mean Italy was just awesome all of a sudden previous 208 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: to this, And I believe the spring of nineteen forty three, 209 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: Hitler kind of saw the riding on the wall, didn't 210 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: fully trust Italy or Mussolini, and was like, you know what, 211 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: if Italy falls into the hands of the Allies, that's 212 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: really bad news for us. So they started sort of 213 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: arming up and sending troops in the spring of nineteen 214 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: forty three, and they're run up to the surrender that 215 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: Mussolini finally, like I said in September, underwent, and so 216 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: takeaway here is Germans were in Italy and well armed 217 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: and basically occupying Italy at the time of their surrender 218 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty three. 219 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, Italy had not only surrendered, they had 220 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 2: now switched sides. They're like, we're with you, allies. We've 221 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: declared war on Germany, even though the Germans are occupying 222 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 2: us right now, even though our dictator is in jail. 223 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: It's a weird situation, but that was the situation in 224 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 2: nineteen forty three. 225 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: Like you say, yeah, well they were, you know, still 226 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: allies until the surrender. But it was a precarious thing 227 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: because like, Germany is like seriously occupying Italy in the 228 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: run up to the surrender, and it was just I 229 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: think everyone was pretty nervous at that point in Italy, 230 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: like certainly the citizens. 231 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: Yes, but they were also mad because they had gotten 232 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 2: rid of Mussolini and now they had the Germans, who 233 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 2: were just like out of the frying pan into the fire. 234 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 2: And by this time they had said, yeah, we're at 235 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 2: war with Germany. We don't want to have this, so 236 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: there was a pretty strong underground resistance that did like 237 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 2: attack German Nazi soldiers who were stationed in Italy. They 238 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 2: didn't have an easy time of it in Italy. I 239 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:15,239 Speaker 2: guess I should. 240 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: Say absolutely, maybe we should take a break. Yeah, that's 241 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: a good geographical warlike setup, and then we can come 242 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: back and sort of talk about some of the key 243 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: people players in this story. 244 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 2: Right after this, So, Chuck, you mentioned a couple of 245 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: people who are of prominent players in this The first 246 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 2: two are despicable sobs. They were Nazis. One of them 247 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: was named Albert kessel Ring, the smiling Nazi general. I 248 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: saw he was. I saw he was Hitler's go to 249 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: guy in Southern European theater. He was in charge of 250 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 2: the Mediterranean, he was, by default then in charge of Italy. 251 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: He was. 252 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 2: A terrible person who ordered all sorts of terrible atrocities 253 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 2: to be done to civilians. Anything that happened to civilians, 254 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: it was under his watch. 255 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was a guy that was kind of 256 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: enacting the racial laws in northern Africa. 257 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 2: Yes, so yeah, I think we should say. I don't 258 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 2: know if we really got that point across. When the 259 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 2: Nazis took over Italy. They said, these racial laws are 260 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: now being enforced for reels, right, people are going to 261 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 2: start really getting deported. We're in charge now. And this 262 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 2: was the guy who was in. 263 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: Charge, that's right. So that's Kesserling. There's also another k 264 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: Herbert Kapler. He was an SS guy. He was the 265 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: German chief of police in Rome during the occupation and 266 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: he's notable for a lot of things he was. He's 267 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: an awful human and many atrocities committed under him, including 268 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: a very famous one called and I got to get 269 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: the pronunciation right here, the ardi Atina massacre. Okay, you 270 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: don't agree. 271 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think you nailed it. Actually that's not 272 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 2: what I would have said, but I would have gotten 273 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: it wrong. I think you got it. It's a R 274 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: D E A T I N E. 275 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: Well, and this is also, you know, going by what 276 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: some pronunciation person says. 277 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: I would have added a syllable in there. I'm trying 278 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: to figure out a warrior. 279 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: Who who knows if they're ever correct, But that's what 280 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call him. And that was a situation dealing 281 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: with the Atina Caves where they rounded up three hundred 282 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: and and this Is in retaliation for an attack on them. 283 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: But they rounded up they were told around up three 284 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty Italians. They instead got three hundred and 285 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: thirty five Italians and they took them to these caves 286 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: and five at a time, made them get on their 287 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: knees and shot them in the back of the head. 288 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they dynamited the cave afterward so that 289 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 2: people couldn't get to them. That was like really par 290 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 2: for the course for the Nazim in Italy. The Italian 291 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 2: resistance would stage an attack on Nazi soldiers occupying their country, 292 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 2: and the Nazis would in turn kill ten times the 293 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: civilians something like that, just murdering cold blood, just hundreds 294 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 2: of civilians at a time. And do you realize, Chuck, 295 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 2: the resolve it takes for a resistance group to just 296 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: be like knowing that hundreds of people are going to 297 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: die because of the thing you're about to do the 298 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 2: Nazis and still having resolved to keep fighting. It's just 299 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: again bounding. So that was the plan, was the playbook, 300 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 2: and it happened all throughout Italy, especially from Rome up 301 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 2: to in the northern Italy under the watch of kessel 302 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 2: Ring and Kapler again, terrible, terrible human beings. 303 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: All right. So that's the situation. The Nazis are in Rome, 304 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: the Italians don't like the Nazis. The Vatican is sort 305 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: of there, not being able to say a whole lot. 306 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: They can't really get into the Nazis business, of course, 307 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: because again that same precarious situation with Vatican cities. Well 308 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:40,959 Speaker 1: not stateship. What would you call it? 309 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 2: Just independence? 310 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. Independence. So now we got to set a little 311 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: geography up. The Tiber River goes through Rome and there's 312 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: a tiny little island called Tiber Island. I think it's 313 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: the only island in the Rome area of the Tiber River, 314 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: and it is very small. It's about nine hundred feet 315 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: by two hundred and twenty feet and it's been around 316 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: forever and has been used throughout you know, the years 317 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: for various things, monasteries, I can't remember those, a couple 318 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: of other things, but it's connected, you know, by bridges 319 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: on both sides. And in the fifteen hundreds, for our story, 320 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: there was a Catholic order called the Hospitaller Order of 321 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: the Brothers of Saint John of God, who established a 322 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: hospital there where the monastery was and the hospital became 323 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: known as the Fata Beina Fratelli. 324 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 2: Not bet Yeah, yeah, okay, not bed. 325 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: What does that mean? Do good brothers? 326 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,719 Speaker 2: Yes? Do fate bene good Fratelli brothers, do good brothers. 327 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 2: And the Ed helped us out with this, and he 328 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 2: makes a point like, does it mean do good brothers 329 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 2: or they're the do good brothers like the Doobie Brother's 330 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 2: original name. 331 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds more like a duo wop group. 332 00:18:58,440 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 2: It does. 333 00:18:59,400 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 334 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 2: So the upshot of this is that in the fifteen hundreds, 335 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 2: this group of friars, Catholic friars, had a hospital up 336 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 2: and running on this island in the Tiber River, and 337 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 2: it remained in operation basically ever since that time. It 338 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 2: passed in and out of the Vatican's hands. But for 339 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 2: the purposes of our story, during nineteen forty three, the 340 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 2: Vatican was, I guess owned that hospital. It was operating 341 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 2: under Vatican control. 342 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And as such it became a sanctuary. Even though 343 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, Jewish people and Catholic people had different faiths, 344 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: it did become a bit of a sanctuary for all 345 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: kinds of people because it was the Catholic Church and 346 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: they you know, have long had a history of welcoming 347 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: and helping people when they can well. 348 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 2: Also took it like geographically speaking, it linked the Jewish 349 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 2: ghetto in Rome, yeah, and the Vatican. On one side 350 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 2: of the bridge. It was the like, just across bridge 351 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 2: was the Jewish Ghetto. Just across the other bridge was 352 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: the Vatican. So it was it had its feet in 353 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 2: two different worlds and brought them all together kind of. 354 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: Absolutely. There was a guy there who ran the place, 355 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: a clergyman named a father Maurzio Bialec, and he was 356 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: in charge of the hospital. He was an anti fascist. 357 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: And as you'll see here what this guy does, it's 358 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: pretty amazing. He kind of very quietly and he was 359 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: sort of an anti fascist on the downlow because he 360 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: didn't want to cause a big stir, but he quietly 361 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: stocked the sort of the doctors and the staff with 362 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: anti fascists doctors and staff members. Yeah. 363 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 2: He put together like a Justice League but medical yeah. Yeah. 364 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: And I wonder if it was I wonder if his 365 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: reasoning was because he thought they they could eventually do 366 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: something like this, or if he was just like, hey, listen, 367 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: I'm anti fascist and I want to hire people like minded, 368 00:20:59,080 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: people like me. 369 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 2: That or he was like, I am not spending eight 370 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 2: hours a day around fascists. I'll tell you exactly. It 371 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 2: was one of those. But the fact is this guy 372 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 2: was in charge. He was the hospital administrator. And one 373 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 2: of his first hires, very important hire, was a guy 374 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 2: named Giovanni Borromeo. He was a doctor and he was 375 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 2: very in step with father Biolick. He had very similar views, 376 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 2: and in fact he would he refused to join the 377 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 2: Fascist Party, and that really narrowed a lot of his 378 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 2: career prospects. He didn't necessarily get turned down by other hospitals, 379 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 2: but those hospitals required that he joined the Fascist Party. 380 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 2: He said thanks anyway. Finally, I don't know how he 381 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 2: was found by father Bilic, but he was, and he 382 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 2: was recruited and he was now the doctor in charge 383 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 2: of the hospital. 384 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, so they team up, they kind of fill out 385 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: the staff with more anti fascists. Hooray. They bring the 386 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: facility into the modern age, which was you know again 387 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: at you know, nineteen thirty four modern for those times, 388 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: and they didn't have like laser surgery and stuff, is 389 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. They weren't time travelers. Sure, so after 390 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: these racial laws, kind of kick in. In nineteen thirty eight. 391 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: This hospital, like we already said it was, you know, 392 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: it was a bit of a haven for all kinds 393 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: of people and certainly Jewish people, but it became even 394 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: more of a haven. And there was another guy who 395 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: was named Vittorio Sacra dootia animea. 396 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 2: Anytime in Italian there's a C followed directly by a vowel, 397 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 2: it makes a chiss sound. Oh okay, and then strangely, 398 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 2: the cch makes a cuss sound, so like okay, choo 399 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 2: ci or capiche, which is really interesting. I guess you 400 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 2: could say, I think. 401 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: I think the uh. I think the O is supposed 402 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 1: to be in size too doty on you said bora Mayo. 403 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: I think it's Boutromeo. 404 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 2: Oh is that right? 405 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: I think, but I'm not positive again. And you know, 406 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: the funny thing is, we just had a guy right 407 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: in saying he was our biggest Italian and did you 408 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: see that? And he said, uh, he said, chuck, knock 409 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: it off with those semi offensive Italian accents a little bit. 410 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: I emailed them back. I'm so sorry, I said, I 411 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: didn't know that I was offending anyone. I'm just having 412 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: fun and he was just like, it's all okay, and 413 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: he's like, I'm so glad you emailed back, and I 414 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: wasn't really offended. 415 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: Oh that was nice. 416 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: So I don't even know what to think now. 417 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're all up in the air. But I can't 418 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 2: tell you that a sea followed by a vowel in 419 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 2: Italian is okay. 420 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: So you have such a doughty and Boromeo okay or 421 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: Borromeo that sounds more Middle Eastern to me Boro Mayo 422 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: in my mind it does. 423 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: Yet I'm not catching that. 424 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: Boro Mao era meic. 425 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't think. 426 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: Anyway. Here's the key though, is Borromeo wasn't Jewish. But 427 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: say the other guy's name satru Dodi. Satur Dody was 428 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: Jewish and he was one of the ones that was 429 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: fired for being Jewish during those racial laws. 430 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 2: So think about this father Biallick is putting together. He's 431 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 2: got like an anti fascist lead doctor. He has another 432 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 2: doctor's Jewish posing as a Catholic working at a Catholic hospital. 433 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: It's a dream team. 434 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 2: He has another guy, Adriano O Cichini because there's a 435 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: ci chuck. He is basically an anti fascist warrior who 436 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 2: also volunteers at the hospital, and all of these guys 437 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,719 Speaker 2: are working together to form basically an anti fascist medical 438 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 2: committee to figure out what they can do. And one 439 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 2: of the first things they do is I don't know 440 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 2: where the the radio came from, but they had a 441 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 2: secret underground radio that was used by partisans and by 442 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: military leaders to contact other people secretly from a secret radio, 443 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 2: not something you wanted to be caught with. That was 444 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,959 Speaker 2: a tremendous risk just to have that in the hospital, 445 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 2: and they had it in there for years. Apparently. That 446 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 2: was just one of the many things these guys did. 447 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a little anti fascist headquarters operating out 448 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: of this hospital. 449 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 2: Secret. 450 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, of course October of that year, nineteen forty three, Kapler, 451 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: who we were talking about, he's the very bad SS 452 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: officer under orders from Kesselring. He was the other bad 453 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: man in charge. They said, all right, here's what we're 454 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: going to do. We are going to round him up 455 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: German style, and we are going and these were like, 456 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: I think there was like thirty thousand Ish Jewish people 457 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: living in Rome at the time. 458 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 2: I saw ten thousand. 459 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: Oh really, I saw perhaps more than the third So 460 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: I guess the range is pretty wide, and there were 461 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: about a thousand that they rounded up initially, and this 462 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: was I would guess that just the first wave of 463 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: this sent to Auschwitz, sent to the gas chambers. All 464 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 1: of this you can see from the Vatican. It's all 465 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: happening outside their windows on the streets where Nazis would 466 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: literally come to your door in the middle of the night, 467 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,959 Speaker 1: bang them the door, and you know, say come out here, 468 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: get some things. That it was a bit of a 469 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: trick to say gather some stuff, because that would lead 470 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: you to believe that, oh, we're just being relocated or 471 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: something and maybe detained. But that was all a ruse 472 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: to keep them passive and to not fight back, because 473 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: if they showed up and said, don't bother bringing anything, 474 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: then they would surely know that they're on their way 475 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: to their death and they would probably fight back. 476 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. And then on top of that, the Nazis in 477 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 2: Rome had added deception. They had negotiated with the Jewish 478 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 2: community in Rome to accept fifty kilograms of gold in 479 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 2: exchange for protection of the Jewish community in Rome. So 480 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 2: the members of the Jewish community in Rome were under 481 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 2: the impression that they were going to be excluded from 482 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 2: roundups and deportations and concentration camps because they had a deal. 483 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 2: And then on top of it, like you said, they said, 484 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 2: you know, bring some personal items. It's just despicable stuff. 485 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: All right. So the stage is super duper set if 486 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: it was set before the first break, and then we're 487 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: going to come back and finally get to Syndrome K 488 00:27:32,480 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: right after this. All right, super duber set stage. The 489 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: Nazis are in Rome, they're in Italy are the citizens 490 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: are not happy. There are a lot of Jews flaying 491 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: to Catholic churches all over the place trying to find refuge, 492 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: including this hospital. But here's the deal. You show up 493 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: at a church and it's pretty obvious what to do 494 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: with somebody. You hide them. It's a church, it's a 495 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: place of refuge. Anyway, You show up at a hospital 496 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: that is an active hospital treating sick people, and they're like, well, 497 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: what do we do in this situation? Because the Nazis 498 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 1: are probably going to sniff this one out pretty quick. 499 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: So they created this plot to basically invent a fake disease, 500 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: specifically a Jewish disease, and they would hide these people 501 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: under the guise of being stricken with this very highly 502 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: contagious disease that the Nazis certainly did not want and 503 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: did not want to be around. It was ingenious, Actually. 504 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 2: It was super ingenious. I saw just in passing. One 505 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 2: of the people interviewed in the documentary mentioned this and 506 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 2: they I didn't see it anywhere else, but he said 507 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: that he had heard one of the the Jewish people 508 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 2: who showed up at the hospital looking for help in 509 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 2: October when they the Jewish community was being rounded up. 510 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 2: They were like, what's you know? What's wrong with you? 511 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: What? 512 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 2: What do you have? And the guy said, I've got 513 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 2: Kepler syndrome and that that is potentially where the name 514 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 2: came from, syndrome K. And that's what they named, this 515 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 2: fictitious disease that they attributed to people who were Jewish 516 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 2: who were hiding out in the hospital or needed to 517 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 2: be hidden. They hid them in plain sight. 518 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and apparently it was Borromeo's idea. Depending you know, 519 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: when you watch a documentary, Satadode and Osachini were both 520 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: saying like, I'm the one who let people in first, 521 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: but I think they I think they both probably did. 522 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't like everyone showed up at once it was 523 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: a trickle of people. They were letting them in under 524 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: this guise once again of being sick. So they were like, 525 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: all right, we need some symptoms about you know, something 526 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: sort of generic like vomiting, nausea, headache, You should cough 527 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: a lot, We should say it's super contagious and that 528 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: your death will be a really bad one. You basically 529 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: die by asphyxiation. Right, it looked like some other diseases. 530 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: It wasn't too far off from things like tuberculosis or polio, 531 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: so it wasn't like some big, unbelievable new thing that 532 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: they would be like, wait a minute, that sounds fishy. 533 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: And so that was the plan. Is to put them 534 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: in their own wing basically where they were sequestered. They 535 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: had to wear a sign around their neck that said 536 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: syndrome K or I guess in Italian it was ill 537 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: morbo DK d IK And they said, hey, you know, 538 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,719 Speaker 1: ham it up and look like you're super sick and 539 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: they won't want anything to do with you. 540 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, the name also syndrome K. There's a lot of 541 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 2: explanations in addition to that one. What the case stood for. 542 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 2: It could have stood for kessel ring or Kapler. There's 543 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 2: a German word for tumor is creb's crank height, right, yeah, sure, 544 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 2: and then cribs kronkite, Yeah, like Walter kar I was 545 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 2: gonna say that. And then there was another one. This 546 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 2: was a really big one. Apparently in Germany, tuberculosis is 547 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 2: referred to as coke or cock disease ko H, after 548 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 2: the scientists from Germany who discovered the bacterium that creates tuberculosis. 549 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 2: So I think they would sometimes use that term as well. 550 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 2: That really drove it home to the Nazis that this 551 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 2: is like some sort of hyper terrible tuberculosis that we 552 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 2: don't want to catch. 553 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's a lot of stories because they weren't 554 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: just like, you know, we should write all this down 555 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: right to be discovered by the Nazis. So that's what 556 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: happens in history. Stories sort of get changed around. But 557 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: they have these people, like I said, in their own wing. 558 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: The troops would come around, they would you know, do 559 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: the thing that they did, which is investigate and see 560 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: what's going on. And the doctors would walk them by 561 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: and say, you don't want to go in there, trust me, 562 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: they've got syndrome K and you know, it's super contagious, 563 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: it'll kill you dead. It's a Jewish disease that I mentioned, 564 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,959 Speaker 1: and and it worked. They raided the hospital a few times. 565 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: I believe they did find some people in hiding, but 566 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: they did not. I don't think they were in the 567 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: Syndrome k. 568 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 2: Way, they were not. They were I think four six 569 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: Polish refugees who were discovered, like you said, actually hiding. Yeah, 570 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 2: they also so because everybody in Rome was really unhappy 571 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 2: with the German occupiers, it was not hard to be 572 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 2: warned ahead of time that the Germans were heading your way. 573 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 2: And there was one night where the Germans, I guess, 574 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 2: had figured out that there was a radio somewhere around 575 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 2: that island and they got just enough warning to dump 576 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: it into the river. Again, it's really hard to get 577 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 2: a cross like what like that is way different from 578 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 2: being caught hiding some refugees in a hospital a radio. 579 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 2: It was like, you're actively part of the resistance, right, 580 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 2: So it was great that they didn't get caught with that, 581 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 2: I guess what I'm trying to say. 582 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, so while they were there in hiding faking 583 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: this disease, it wasn't supposed to be some permanent thing. 584 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: So it wasn't like they had, you know, some sort 585 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: of lavish situation was it was sort of like a 586 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: midway station, and they would get people in and out 587 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: of there as quickly as possible. They would sneak them out, 588 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: just a few at a time. They would give them 589 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: false papers, they would issue false death certificates in case 590 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: the Nazis were like, well, wait a minute, you only 591 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: have you know, fifteen patients here, you had twenty yesterday, 592 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: that kind of thing, and they're like, well they died 593 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: and here's their papers, and they never it seems like 594 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: they never even became suspicious. 595 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 2: So yeah, I didn't get the impression that they actually 596 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 2: became suspicious. They were suspicious of the hospital just because 597 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 2: of its close proximity to the Jewish ghetto, but they 598 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,719 Speaker 2: the syndrome k thing. From what I could tell, they 599 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 2: were so dedicated to the Ruse that like they took 600 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 2: it just as seriously as they would have if it 601 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 2: was an actual real thing, like just the documentation and 602 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 2: all that stuff. So yeah, it was just imperceptible. Apparently, 603 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,760 Speaker 2: when the Nazis came through for one of their raids, 604 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 2: they brought a doctor with them, a German doctor, and 605 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 2: even the doctor was like, this all checks out, you know, right, 606 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 2: So they definitely did. They were very dedicated to this 607 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 2: and they did it the right way because they were 608 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 2: very anti fascists and they were also very intelligent. 609 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,240 Speaker 1: That's right. Everyone knows how this story plays out. Eventually, 610 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,919 Speaker 1: the Nazis left Italy and American troops entered in June 611 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: of forty four without even any fighting. They were greeted 612 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: as liberators. And as for the cast of characters here, 613 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: he died in nineteen sixty one, but was honored by 614 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: Yad Vashim, an organization that basically said we're going to 615 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: bestow upon you the title of Righteous among Nations in 616 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: two thousand and four. So obviously a much posthumous award, 617 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:20,399 Speaker 1: much posthumous. Posthumous is posthumous. Sure, it was many years so. 618 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 2: It doesn't get trying to say more posthumous. 619 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: But it can be posthumous ten minutes later, right. 620 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 2: Technique, it's it either is or it isn't posthumous. 621 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: Exactly, but anyway, many many years later, and that is 622 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: an award for non Jews who helped rescue Jews turn 623 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: the Holocaust. 624 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, who else? 625 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: Well, your buddy sat your dode. He lived until the 626 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 1: early two thousand and I think lived in the Jewish 627 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: ghetto in Rome and worked as a doctor for that 628 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: whole time. 629 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 2: And then Osuccini, the young partisan, who was also a 630 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 2: volunteer at the hospital. He ended up being elected to 631 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 2: the Italian Senate for decades and I think went on 632 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 2: to be I'm a psychologist too, And he lived until 633 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen. 634 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: Amazing. 635 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 2: And if you're wondering what happened to the Nazis and Mussolini, 636 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 2: I did a little following up on that Kessel ring. 637 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 2: He was convicted of war crimes and sentenced to death 638 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 2: in nineteen forty seven. That was commuted to a life 639 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 2: sentence and he was released in nineteen fifty two, which sucks. 640 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 2: But he died in nineteen sixty Kapler. They brought the 641 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 2: hammer down on him. He was convicted. I don't think 642 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 2: he was sentenced. They handed him over to the Italians 643 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 2: who sentenced him. They send him to life in an 644 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 2: Italian military prison. They served thirty years until nineteen seventy seven. 645 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 2: And the only reason he got out is because he 646 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 2: was in a military hospital on the verge of death 647 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 2: and his wife showed up from Germany and smuggled him out, 648 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 2: lowering down out of the window with ropes and smuggled 649 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,399 Speaker 2: him back to West Germany because she vowed he would 650 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 2: not die in captivity. She thought of him as a 651 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 2: christ like figure, apparently, was a quote of hers according 652 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 2: to the New York Times. Oh bit, so he died 653 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 2: after thirty years in prison. Kind of got his the Mussolini. 654 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 2: He was deposed, remember Chuck, when you're deposed, like you're 655 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 2: kind of under arrest basically, and the Nazi SS paratroopers 656 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 2: were sent in to free him, and they took him 657 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 2: up to northern Italy, which is where the Italian fascists 658 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 2: and the Nazis kind of staged their last stand as 659 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 2: we saw. But he was eventually arrested along with his 660 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,319 Speaker 2: inner circle at Lake Cuomo. Lake Como. I just want 661 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 2: to say Cuomo because of rivers Cuomo, but it's just 662 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 2: Lake Como where George what's his name Cooney? Yeah, where 663 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 2: he lives, right, Okay, Yeah, So they were arrested there. 664 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 2: They were executed, I don't know, maybe on the spot 665 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 2: and strung up by their legs in the piazza in 666 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 2: Milan for all to see. That was the end of Mussolini. 667 00:37:59,200 --> 00:37:59,839 Speaker 1: That was the end. 668 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 2: So at least the bad guys kind of got theirs. 669 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 2: And you know, really, this whole thing is about celebrating 670 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 2: that amazing il Morbo di CKay. 671 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: That's right, Syndrome K. 672 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:11,919 Speaker 2: You got anything else? 673 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: No, maybe there's not enough for a movie here, but 674 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 1: it should be a should be an episode of a 675 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: of an anthology historical anthology show. 676 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 2: Great idea. 677 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: You could get a really good hour out of this. 678 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,879 Speaker 2: Sad for sure, we just almost did. 679 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: I know, I look at us thirty nine minutes. 680 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 2: If you want to know more about Syndrome K, you 681 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 2: can search the internet for that. There's a lot of 682 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 2: really interesting articles out there. There's also a really great documentary. 683 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 2: I think it's just called Syndrome K. And since I 684 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,919 Speaker 2: said Syndrome K twice, that means it's time for listener mail. 685 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna go ahead and read Marco's email 686 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:54,120 Speaker 1: because it's just fittings appropriate. Yeah, Hey guys, I'm Marco. 687 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: I'm an Italian guy born in the Deep South, Calabria 688 00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: and currently living in Rome. I've been listening to Stuff 689 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: Should Know for the last two years. I love your show. 690 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 1: You're amazing. Most likely I'm your biggest fan in Italy. 691 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 1: I know that is pretemptious. 692 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 2: I'm not sure I think he meant pretentious or presumptuous. 693 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 2: Oh okay, maybe he just kind of came up with 694 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 2: a brand new awesome word. May not presuming something. 695 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: He goes on to say, as you see, my English 696 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: is better than the average English spoken and written by 697 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,919 Speaker 1: the average Italian people, which honestly is really bad. That's 698 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: what he says. By the way, well, I have to 699 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: thank you for this. You're the main reason why my 700 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: English is not bad. 701 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:37,280 Speaker 2: Nice. 702 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 1: Three exclamation nice. Just one thing, if I may, guys, 703 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: one little thing. Sometimes you say some Italian words he 704 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 1: says Josh more often than Chuck. But I think he 705 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: just has this swapped out gotta be got be trying 706 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,879 Speaker 1: to replicate the way Italians talk. Yeah, that's that's I'm 707 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,439 Speaker 1: Chuck Marco. A lot of people get that wrong. It's fine. 708 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 2: I know we got blamed just for be in your orbit. 709 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: I know, guys, really we don't speak like that. We 710 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: are not even close to that. To be honest, it's 711 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: a little bit offensive. But he did the crying laughing face. 712 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 1: I don't mean to be a pain in the butt 713 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,240 Speaker 1: except Marco Cus. Oh really, July, he's the A word anyway. 714 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: Thanks for so much, Thanks so much for your show. 715 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: I really hope to have the chance to see you 716 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:23,800 Speaker 1: live someday. 717 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 2: Chao, Marco, very nice, Chuck. You didn't do a single 718 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 2: semi offensive Italian impression in that whole email. 719 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: I tried not well. 720 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Marco, Thank you for setting us straight. Sadly, 721 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 2: I think that might be the end of Chuck's Italian impressions. 722 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 2: Maybe we'll see everybody's stay tuned and we'll all find out. 723 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 2: If you want to be like Marco and take us 724 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,959 Speaker 2: to task over something and do it nicely like he did, 725 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 2: you can send us an email. It's stuff podcast at 726 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio dot com. 727 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 728 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:04,839 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 729 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,800 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.