WEBVTT - #197 Jason Flom with Enes Kanter 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:05.640 Enna's Canter was a young basketball phena, living and playing 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:08.280 professionally in his native Turkey before eventually coming to the 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:11.120 United States to play in the NBA. Currently, he plays 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:14.120 center for the Portland Trailblazers, and his story would be 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:16.599 the stuff of dreams if not for the specter of 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:21.759 authoritarian leadership back at home. Turkish President Resep Erduwan's rule 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.560 in Turkey started off in a promising direction, but soon 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:29.040 devolved into corruption and authoritarianism as he shunned his party's 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:32.400 political allies in the Gulan Movement, eventually labeling them a 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.120 terrorist organization bent on taking over the government. Since then, 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.279 over fifty thousand members of the Ghulan Movement have been 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:43.880 arrested for nothing more than their political affiliation. Ennis Canter 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:46.880 began using his platform as an NBA player to draw 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:51.040 international attention to this dire situation, making him a wanted 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.520 man in his beloved Turkey. Since efforts to silence ns 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.600 have failed, Erduwan has brought down his ire instead upon 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:04.440 the Ennis's father. In twenty eighteen, doctor Memet Cantor was 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:09.400 sent to prison on false charges of terrorism. Ultimately, Sunlight 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.440 proved to be the best disinfectant when Ennis was able 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:14.720 to use his platform as an NBA star to win 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.520 his father's freedom, but he is keen to remind us 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.520 that there are so many more political prisoners still suffering 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:25.280 through the authoritarian rule of Urtuwan. This is wrongful Conviction 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:44.560 with Jason Plott. Welcome back to wrongful Conviction. Today's guest 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:50.400 was wrongfully convicted in absentia. His father was also wrongfully convicted. 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.640 All of this happened in a foreign country, and all 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.960 of it happened while he was playing in the NBA. 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:02.880 So without further ad please allow me to introduce my 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.040 friend Ennis Cantor and it's welcome to wrongful Conviction. 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:08.480 Thank you for having him. I really appreciate it. 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.160 And Ennis, what a life, short life, I mean, you're 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.000 all notly born in nineteen ninety two. You're like a 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:18.240 kid to me, you know, but what a life you 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:23.040 have led and what a courageous person you are. And 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.120 we're going to get into all of that, but before 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.440 we do, let's go back to the beginning. First of all, 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:31.760 I think most people don't know you were born actually 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:33.400 not a Turkey in Switzerland. 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.320 Right, Yes, I'mor in Switzerland. My dad was doing his 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.560 master I stayed there for nine months and then I 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:40.520 moved back to Turkey. 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.000 And your father is doctor Mehmet Cantor, a professor of genetics, 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:47.440 a medical doctor, right, and you know, well tell us 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:47.959 about him. 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.120 I mean, he's a genetic professor. Obviously, it was all 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.680 about education. And you know I was tolder than all 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.240 my classmates. You know, my classmates or my teammates were 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.920 always making fun of me. I said, hey, your dad, 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.720 and you know, play with your geens. That's why you're 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.200 so tall. But he was always all about his education. 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.880 He actually did not want me to play basketball at all. 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:09.680 You know. 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:13.400 He was telling me, hey, you know your mom's a nurse. 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.880 He's a genic professor, so you are going to be 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.200 a doctor or you're going to be a professor one day. 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:23.320 Just stop wasting your time playing basketball. I told him. 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:24.639 He was like, listen that you know, I want to 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.560 play basketball, but you know, go to school same time 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.880 and I can do both. And he was like, okay, 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.560 I'll give you a chance. If your grades are not good, 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:34.960 your quld in basketball. 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.320 I think your father and my father would have gotten 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:39.720 along great. I wish my dad was still alive to 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:44.840 meet him. To understand Ennis's story, you should understand a 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:48.280 few things about Turkish history and politics. The Republic of Turkey, 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.240 formerly the Ottoman Empire, has a very rich and tumultuous history, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.280 leaving a varying religious and ethnic identity in its wake. 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.240 Just before World War One, a coup brought about a 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.200 constitutional democracy that saw to unite the diverse population under 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:06.960 one national Turkish identity. This assertive secularism was problematic for 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.320 the many faithful, who saw their religious identity shunned in public. 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:14.720 Over the last century, this conflict between secularism and religious 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.599 freedom has given rise to movements rivaling the secular, military, 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:22.520 and intellectual elites. One such political group, the Ghulan Movement, 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:26.239 found a tactical political ally in the center right Religion Friendly, 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:30.800 Justice and Development Party, also known as the AKP of 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:35.120 Recep Erduwan. That alliance brought the AKP to power and 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.640 proved fruitful for the Gulan movement, seeing many Gulan appointments 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.960 in the judiciary and law enforcement, until Erduwan and the 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:48.280 AKP began to consolidate power and devolved into corruption and authoritarianism. 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.360 Any investigation into that corruption was met with wild accusations 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.200 of a witch hunt and a judicial coup. The akp 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.159 and Erduwan has since falsely labeled the Ghulan movement a 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:04.080 terrorist organized, purging thousands from their political appointments and arresting 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:08.279 and persecuting over fifty thousand members of the peaceful Guland movement. 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.200 Now what does it mean? I know that you are 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:17.040 educated at his met affiliated schools which are part of 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:22.120 the Guland movement. Now, can you explain why that's significant? 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.360 First of all, that he's met. The word itself means 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.320 like serve. You know, it's a global you know, social 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:34.840 movement focuses on three things, secular education, fightam with poverty 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.600 and social harmony around the globe. And obviously inspired by 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:43.839 an Islamic scholar, Fetula Gulan, and he inspired millions of 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:47.279 people around the world to open up you know, modern 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:51.560 and secular schools and relief organizations. You know, the Gulah 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.839 Moment school in Turkey was the best schools in the 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:59.279 whole country. Even I believe Ardon's kids were going to 0:05:59.320 --> 0:05:59.880 the schools. 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:04.039 You actually became acquainted with Petula Gulin, who's become the 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.760 focal point of so much international intrigue, and of course 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.920 your association with him probably was one of the things 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:12.280 that put you in the crosshairs. 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.160 You know, I remember first time meeting him, I believe 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.200 it was back in twenty thirteen. I was very curious 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:23.159 about who this man, you know, behind all this. I 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.160 took a trip to Pennsylvania to meet him with one 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.080 of my friends, and you know, I still remember one 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:32.640 thing that he told me that still inspires me every day. 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.080 He is like, it doesn't matter what your background is, 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:38.800 It doesn't matter what your belief your religion, your skin 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.920 color is the most important thing in life is live 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.280 your differences on the table and trying to find what 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:46.800 we have in common. And he believes we have lots 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:50.440 of problems are happening around the world because of uneducated people. 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.640 You know, he's an Islamic scholar. But instead of him 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.760 going around and build the mosques, he believed in education. 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:01.479 And you know, this movement have now schools and cultural centers. 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:04.640 I believe, over one hundred and seventy country in the world. 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.680 And these organizations are not just for Muslim people. You know, 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.600 you're a Jewish, you're Christian, Catholic, or you're Muslim, you're 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:14.440 believe in God, you don't believe in God, you can 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.360 go to these schools or these organizations and learn about 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:19.480 method science or about life, you know. 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:24.480 So, the gul And Movement and the currently ruling Justice 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:28.560 and Development Party or AKP, that of course is Urdawan's party, 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.560 were at one point allied, and at that time they 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:36.040 championed the American quote unquote style of secularism that supported 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:40.800 individual rights to freedom of religion over what we call 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:44.560 assertive secularism. And they formed a tactical alliance in order 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.000 to defeat their common foes through political means, which were 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.440 the military leaders and the secular elitists. All of that 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:56.760 sounds good, right, but then things took a turn in 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:01.680 a very dark direction. And can you explain how that 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:04.080 happened to this country that you grew up in and 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.360 that I'm sure you loved and probably still loved to 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:06.840 this day. 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.280 So, actually, mister Gulan and Ardom, you know, they have 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.760 a couple of pictures together, but they were really never allies. 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.200 Media wanted to make it look like they were allies, 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:20.239 but they were never allies. And also till twenty twelve, 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.800 Airdron was saying he's going for democracy. He's gone for 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.200 freedom and all that stuff. And that's why lots of 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.720 the people from you know, Gulam moments, not Julan himself, 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.920 but the Yula moment was voted for him. So a 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.800 lot of people you know from AKP party and Gulam 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:41.560 woman to become policemen, judges, or journalists or persecutors and 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:45.160 they were running the country really really well. So back 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.480 in twenty thirteen, there was a big corruption scandle happened 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:52.480 in Turkey and President Ardan, his family and some of 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:57.840 the congressmans close to Erdoon was involvement. And when they 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.679 cut his voice, when they cut his tape that he 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:04.520 stole from people, it was a huge news because they 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.640 caught the whole world just so that Adam was a 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.640 crop leader. You can literally go on YouTube and hear 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.120 every word when he got cut, and obviously he got 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.880 so mad he wanted to put everyone in jail who 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.920 was saying that he stole from people. He's a crop leader, 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:27.280 you know, So that's why he started putting people in jail, police, judges, 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:32.600 prosecutors or media and started the shutdown media outlets, and 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.760 he started shouting down prep schools in Turkey who are 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.720 affiliated with good Moments. And that is the first time 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.640 I said something. I'm like, I don't care who you are. 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.400 If you are fighting against education, I'm going to say something. 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.760 I tweet something about it, and just because of you know, 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.760 the platform that I have, it became a conversation in 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.520 Turkey and America, and I was like, wow, I just 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:57.200 see an even power of one tweet. So from now on, 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.839 I'm going to start paying attention what's going on in 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:03.280 my country more, because till then I only care about basketball, 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:05.480 you know, just make a lot of money, take care 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.920 of my family, take your people I love, and just 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:13.200 represent my country in America. But after that happened, I'm like, okay, 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.440 I gotta be just more than a basketball player. And 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:20.199 that's the first time I said something, and things just started. 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.480 And you didn't just say something. I mean, you talked 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.560 about Due as a lunatic dictator and even compared him 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:28.199 with Hitler. 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.800 So after I said something in twenty thirteen, you know, 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.560 things were getting worse and worse. And twenty fifteen was 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.800 the last time that I was back in Turkey. I 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.840 only stayed there for like fourteen days, and I remember 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.760 whenever I went there. My family were like scared and say, 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.600 ncl and you don't go out alone. You're going somewhere, 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:49.719 Just go with like a couple of your friends. Let 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.280 us know where you're going and stuff. And then you know, 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.840 that was the last time I saw them before I 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.360 left my family. I remember that morning I had to 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.480 sit down conversation which my family with my mom and dad. 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.600 I said, listen, there's a path that I'm taking, and 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:08.720 whatever happens, I'm not going to back down. And because 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.360 of the stand that I'm going to take, you guys, 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.960 we are going to get haressed a lot. You guys 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:18.080 might be in jail one day and you guys might 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.760 be like the most hated family in Turkey. I told him, 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.200 because I know what the conversation was gone, and I 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.680 told him. He was like, listen, if you are with me, 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.120 then you're with me. If not, then tell me now. 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.160 So I can, you know, make up my mind and say, okay, 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.120 I'm alone in this. My mom said, if you are 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.320 you know, standing up for something good, something right, then 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.400 we are with you. If not, then we are now 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.000 with you. And I looked at my dad. My dad 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.600 did not say a word. He didn't say anything, because 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:50.040 I'll be honest, all he wanted me to do is 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:54.200 play basketball. And then I left. We call a cap 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.360 and I remember my mom and my sister went to 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.400 a balcony to like to bade me goodbye, and I 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.120 get in the cab. I turn around and they were raving, 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.080 and I told myself, this is the last time I'm 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:14.760 seeing them. 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.480 The Pacers Foundation is a proud supporter of this episode 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.280 of Rafel Convision with Jason Flam and of the Last 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.880 Mile organization, which provides business and tech training to help 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:29.199 incarcerated individuals successfully and permanently re enter the workforce. The 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.359 Pacers Foundation is committed to improving the lives of Hoosiers 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:37.080 across Indiana, supporting organizations that are dedicated primarily to helping 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.440 young people and students. For more information on the work 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.040 of the Pacers Foundation or the Last Mile Program, please 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:51.079 visit Pacersfoundation dot org or the Lastmile dot org. This 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:55.320 episode is underwritten by the AIG pro Bono Program. AIG 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.960 is a leading global insurance company, and for over a decade, 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.839 the AIG Obono program has provided thousands of hours of 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.880 free legal services and other support to nonprofit organizations and 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:11.400 individuals most in need. More recently, the program added criminal 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.960 and social justice reform as a key pillar of its mission. 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:26.199 Maday twenty sixteen is when Urdawan sees the Goulan newspaper 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:30.400 It's called Zaman, and then he recategorized the Goulan movement 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:36.600 as the Fetula terrorist organization, which is it's gaslighting, right. 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.440 He was turning into a terrorist state while calling the 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.600 peace loving people the terrorists. But then again, we see 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:47.000 that here in America. Up until you know, January twentieth 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:49.040 of this year, it looked like we were going down 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.719 that road. So there was an attempted coup carried out 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:54.840 by a faction of the Turkish armed forces known as 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:58.600 the Peace and Home Council, and everything went really crazy. 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.800 Now many people knows, but the night of the courttempt 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.200 I was with mister Gillan and he was shot. He 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:10.520 couldn't believe it. The first thing he did was call 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.480 all his friends, all his students to get together and 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.800 pray for Turkey because that night, over two hundred and 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:21.280 fifteen intes of people died. After the quotemp Dan came 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:25.800 out and blamed the Guilla moment for the coottempt and 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.720 that moment, I was like, this is the craziest thing 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.640 I have ever heard, because I saw what mister Gillan 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.520 did with my own eyes that night, he sat in 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:39.200 his chair and prayed for his country. And when the 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.160 air Don blamed the Gillen moment and mister Gillan for 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.480 the quotem, I'm like, I'm gonna do whatever I can 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.240 to tell this story to the whole world. And the 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.840 Turkish government got really really mad because there was their plan, 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.080 you know, the quotemp, and then du one can pretty 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.840 much become a one man show, put everyone in jail 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.560 whoever's against them, shut down all the media outlets who 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.240 are whoever's against them, or just put all the journalists 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.040 and judges, and changed the military and everything. 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.000 You know. Since this time, over one hundred thousand Goolan 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.120 followers have been purged from their civil service jobs and 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:18.040 over fifty thousand have been arrested so far, you know, 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.840 and who knows what's become of them. So after the 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:25.120 attempted coup is when things started getting really scary for 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.840 your family, your immediate family. You know. 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.760 My dad got fired from his job and my sister 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.400 went to medical school for six years. She still cannot 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:38.200 find a job. My little brother was playing basketball, and 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.480 you know, he wanted to be an NBA player, but 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.840 he was literally getting kicked out in every team because 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.760 of the same last name. So they were getting affected 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:48.960 so much. They had to put a statement out there 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.680 and saying we are disowned an NS. But Turkish government 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.120 did not believe that. You know, they sent police to 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.360 my house in Turkey and they raided the whole house 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:01.680 and they took a really electronic away, computers, laptops, and 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:03.960 iPads because they wanted to see if I am still 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.320 in contact with my family or not. If they were 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:09.560 to see any text message, email, phone call or whatever, 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:11.840 they will be all in jail. Which they took my 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.440 dad in jail for a while. We put so much 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.040 pressure from here the Turkey they let him go. 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:17.520 You know. 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.640 I asked my brother like after my dad got out, 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:25.200 like how's my dad doing? And my brother said, we 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.360 asked him the questions like what happened in there? What 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.080 did they ask you? What did they do to you? 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:32.840 He never talks about it after, you know, he got 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.560 out of jail. He was just watching the walls and 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:37.960 acting so weird. And stuff. So I don't know what 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:42.520 did they do in there to him, but he was 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:43.800 just not the same person. 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.200 And then, of course in twenty seventeen, you know, you 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.720 were charged with terrorism, convicted in absentia, and you were 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.080 facing four years in prison, and they came after you. 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:58.720 Now this was at a time when and I don't 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:00.840 know how. By the way, it's really remarkable to me, 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.000 maybe basketball is your one place where you can for 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:07.199 a couple of hours tune out. Nobody can focus on 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.680 the bad stuff. Twenty four hours a day ll go insane. 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.600 So I'm glad that you have basketball, and it's incredible 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:14.480 that you're able to focus on it and continue to 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.520 exceed expectations the way that you do. But twenty seventeen, 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.000 this is the story that you told me over dinner, right, Yeah, 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.120 so you were on the tour teaching kids, and then 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.960 in Indonesia, shit went crazy. 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.399 So we said, okay, after twenty sixteen, we are definitely 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.240 not gone back to Turkey, and my managers like, let's 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.920 do something for kids, and let's just go to these 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:41.640 countries do basketball camp. Talk about education, talk about social harmony, 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.680 healthy lifestyle, with respecting your parents, We talk about universal 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.479 peace and just do basketball camp because sports is an 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.920 amazing tool to bring people together. You know, you can 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.879 be from different countries, different colors, different days and that whatever, 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.680 different beliefs, but you can cheer for the same team. 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:04.480 So in twenty seventeen, we planned to visit seventeen country 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:08.320 in like thirty five days. Right, we start with Pacific. 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:13.760 Visited Japan, Singapore, Philippines. But the same time, obviously my 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:18.119 friends were saying, listen, Turkish government is like octopus. They 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.800 got arms everywhere, so be careful. We visited the seven 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:26.360 countries in pacifics our last one was Indonesia. We held 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.360 a basketball camp. We were meeting with Turkish communities. We're 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:33.000 visiting schools. End of the night, my friend asked me 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.359 if you want to stay in a school or do 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.320 you want to stay at the hotel. You know, he 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:39.600 showed me a picture of the school. The beds were 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.440 so small and I'm I'm not going to fit here. 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.640 So while I was at the hotel, I was sleeping, 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.480 my manager knocked my door about like two thirty am. 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.200 Something is that come to my room. We need to talk. 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.000 We got a phone call from one of our friends 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.080 in a local in Jakarta. He said, there are some 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.919 people in the school who just had basketball clinic with 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:02.439 They are asking for you, but we have no idea 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.320 who they are. And she's like, what do you want 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:05.960 to do. I was like, I want to stay because 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.239 next day we have so many things scheduled. He's like, 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.840 this could be very dangerous. We need to escape the country. 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:12.600 You know. 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:17.119 It's very scary to be in a country that you 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.480 don't know the language, you don't know the culture, you 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.360 don't know the people there, and you are in danger 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.439 and you literally trying to escape the whole country, you know. 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.560 And we look at the flights. Our first flight was 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.720 I believe five thirty AM to Singapore. In fifteen minutes, 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:34.879 I pack everything, we get in the cap at the 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:36.960 same time. But while we go in the airport, we 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.280 are taking a video and send it to our lawyers 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.160 in America, like if something happens, so they can use 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.480 that as a proof that we are about to get kidnapped. 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:51.440 So we came to the airport, I mean obviously Indonesian, 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.560 you know, people are not that tall, and everyone asking 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:56.920 me questions like, hey, I've told you, what are you doing? 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.280 Why are you here? So my friend just said, just 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:02.399 sit down in a chair and do not get up. 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:03.919 I'm just going to get the tickets and we are 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.160 going to leave. We got the tickets and we left 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:11.320 the country at five thirty am and we landed in Singapore. 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.199 My manager's like, let's call our local guy there in 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.000 Jakarta and see, like, who was those people came to 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.720 school that asking for you. And our local guy said, 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.919 you guys are very lucky because those people they were 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.000 intelligence service and army and wanted to talk to you, 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:30.000 and that talk was not going to be just a talk. 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:46.320 What usually Turkish government does is work with these countries 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.879 like Malaysia, Indonesia and some of the other countries. 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:50.520 You know. 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:53.920 They took people there and put a NetPlane and set 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:56.080 it back to a Turkey so if you were to 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.159 stay there that night, they could ship us back to 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:02.080 the Turkey. And then we were like, okay, let's just 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:04.800 go to Europe and do our basketball clinics there and 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:08.440 do our events there. Our first stop was in Romania. 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:11.040 It was my birthday and we had this like huge event. 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:13.879 Thousands of people were gonna come and we're gonna do 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.600 a big event in Romania with some of the Turkish 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:20.800 people there, so I gave my passport to this lady. 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:23.440 She took like five ten minutes and she said, hold 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:25.680 on a second. She went in the back. She came 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:29.760 out with the police and said, sir, your passport has 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:31.800 been revoked. And I was like, hold on a second, 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:35.440 why is my passport revoke? The police said, we are 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:37.280 not allowed to tell you, but if you want to 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:39.840 learn more about it, you can call the Turkish embassy. 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:42.800 And I'm like, those are the people who revoke my passport. 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:45.240 I'm not gonna call them. So my marriage is like, 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:48.000 we literally have like two three hours to get out 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.399 Romania because if not, I'm not an American citizen, I 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:53.639 still count as a Turkish citizen, so they could have 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:56.520 just sent me back to Turkey. So we literally like 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.439 have two three hours who left the country. So I 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:02.720 guess like the best way they just go back to America. Right. 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:06.600 We called every person we know, like congressman, senators, we 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:11.159 even like texted NBA player association. So we getting up 0:22:11.200 --> 0:22:14.040 a flight. We were gonna land in London and come 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:17.720 back to America. We landed in London and the captain 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:22.000 announced and said, nobody gets up and me and my 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:25.600 manager's like, what's going on? The plane? Doors are open, 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:28.760 and there's this Two police with machine guns came in 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:35.000 the plane and they're looking for someone, right, and they 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:38.679 took someone behind us. I guess there was like a 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:42.360 terrorist or someone in the plane. They took them out, 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:46.159 but they took so long that we missed our New 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:49.760 York plane. So there's this ticket lady. It's like, listen, 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.240