1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Enna's Canter was a young basketball phena, living and playing 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: professionally in his native Turkey before eventually coming to the 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: United States to play in the NBA. Currently, he plays 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: center for the Portland Trailblazers, and his story would be 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: the stuff of dreams if not for the specter of 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: authoritarian leadership back at home. Turkish President Resep Erduwan's rule 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: in Turkey started off in a promising direction, but soon 8 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: devolved into corruption and authoritarianism as he shunned his party's 9 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: political allies in the Gulan Movement, eventually labeling them a 10 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: terrorist organization bent on taking over the government. Since then, 11 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,279 Speaker 1: over fifty thousand members of the Ghulan Movement have been 12 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: arrested for nothing more than their political affiliation. Ennis Canter 13 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: began using his platform as an NBA player to draw 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: international attention to this dire situation, making him a wanted 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: man in his beloved Turkey. Since efforts to silence ns 16 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: have failed, Erduwan has brought down his ire instead upon 17 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: the Ennis's father. In twenty eighteen, doctor Memet Cantor was 18 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: sent to prison on false charges of terrorism. Ultimately, Sunlight 19 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: proved to be the best disinfectant when Ennis was able 20 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: to use his platform as an NBA star to win 21 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: his father's freedom, but he is keen to remind us 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: that there are so many more political prisoners still suffering 23 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: through the authoritarian rule of Urtuwan. This is wrongful Conviction 24 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: with Jason Plott. Welcome back to wrongful Conviction. Today's guest 25 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: was wrongfully convicted in absentia. His father was also wrongfully convicted. 26 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: All of this happened in a foreign country, and all 27 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: of it happened while he was playing in the NBA. 28 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: So without further ad please allow me to introduce my 29 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: friend Ennis Cantor and it's welcome to wrongful Conviction. 30 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: Thank you for having him. I really appreciate it. 31 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: And Ennis, what a life, short life, I mean, you're 32 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: all notly born in nineteen ninety two. You're like a 33 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: kid to me, you know, but what a life you 34 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: have led and what a courageous person you are. And 35 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: we're going to get into all of that, but before 36 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: we do, let's go back to the beginning. First of all, 37 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: I think most people don't know you were born actually 38 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: not a Turkey in Switzerland. 39 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, I'mor in Switzerland. My dad was doing his 40 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: master I stayed there for nine months and then I 41 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 2: moved back to Turkey. 42 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: And your father is doctor Mehmet Cantor, a professor of genetics, 43 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: a medical doctor, right, and you know, well tell us 44 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: about him. 45 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: I mean, he's a genetic professor. Obviously, it was all 46 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 2: about education. And you know I was tolder than all 47 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 2: my classmates. You know, my classmates or my teammates were 48 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 2: always making fun of me. I said, hey, your dad, 49 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: and you know, play with your geens. That's why you're 50 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: so tall. But he was always all about his education. 51 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 2: He actually did not want me to play basketball at all. 52 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: You know. 53 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: He was telling me, hey, you know your mom's a nurse. 54 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: He's a genic professor, so you are going to be 55 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: a doctor or you're going to be a professor one day. 56 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 2: Just stop wasting your time playing basketball. I told him. 57 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 2: He was like, listen that you know, I want to 58 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: play basketball, but you know, go to school same time 59 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: and I can do both. And he was like, okay, 60 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: I'll give you a chance. If your grades are not good, 61 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 2: your quld in basketball. 62 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: I think your father and my father would have gotten 63 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: along great. I wish my dad was still alive to 64 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: meet him. To understand Ennis's story, you should understand a 65 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: few things about Turkish history and politics. The Republic of Turkey, 66 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: formerly the Ottoman Empire, has a very rich and tumultuous history, 67 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: leaving a varying religious and ethnic identity in its wake. 68 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: Just before World War One, a coup brought about a 69 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: constitutional democracy that saw to unite the diverse population under 70 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: one national Turkish identity. This assertive secularism was problematic for 71 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: the many faithful, who saw their religious identity shunned in public. 72 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: Over the last century, this conflict between secularism and religious 73 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: freedom has given rise to movements rivaling the secular, military, 74 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: and intellectual elites. One such political group, the Ghulan Movement, 75 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,239 Speaker 1: found a tactical political ally in the center right Religion Friendly, 76 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: Justice and Development Party, also known as the AKP of 77 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: Recep Erduwan. That alliance brought the AKP to power and 78 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: proved fruitful for the Gulan movement, seeing many Gulan appointments 79 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: in the judiciary and law enforcement, until Erduwan and the 80 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: AKP began to consolidate power and devolved into corruption and authoritarianism. 81 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: Any investigation into that corruption was met with wild accusations 82 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: of a witch hunt and a judicial coup. The akp 83 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: and Erduwan has since falsely labeled the Ghulan movement a 84 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: terrorist organized, purging thousands from their political appointments and arresting 85 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: and persecuting over fifty thousand members of the peaceful Guland movement. 86 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: Now what does it mean? I know that you are 87 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: educated at his met affiliated schools which are part of 88 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: the Guland movement. Now, can you explain why that's significant? 89 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: First of all, that he's met. The word itself means 90 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 2: like serve. You know, it's a global you know, social 91 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 2: movement focuses on three things, secular education, fightam with poverty 92 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 2: and social harmony around the globe. And obviously inspired by 93 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 2: an Islamic scholar, Fetula Gulan, and he inspired millions of 94 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 2: people around the world to open up you know, modern 95 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: and secular schools and relief organizations. You know, the Gulah 96 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 2: Moment school in Turkey was the best schools in the 97 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 2: whole country. Even I believe Ardon's kids were going to 98 00:05:59,320 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: the schools. 99 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 1: You actually became acquainted with Petula Gulin, who's become the 100 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: focal point of so much international intrigue, and of course 101 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: your association with him probably was one of the things 102 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: that put you in the crosshairs. 103 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 2: You know, I remember first time meeting him, I believe 104 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: it was back in twenty thirteen. I was very curious 105 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 2: about who this man, you know, behind all this. I 106 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 2: took a trip to Pennsylvania to meet him with one 107 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: of my friends, and you know, I still remember one 108 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: thing that he told me that still inspires me every day. 109 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: He is like, it doesn't matter what your background is, 110 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what your belief your religion, your skin 111 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: color is the most important thing in life is live 112 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 2: your differences on the table and trying to find what 113 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 2: we have in common. And he believes we have lots 114 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 2: of problems are happening around the world because of uneducated people. 115 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 2: You know, he's an Islamic scholar. But instead of him 116 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 2: going around and build the mosques, he believed in education. 117 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 2: And you know, this movement have now schools and cultural centers. 118 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 2: I believe, over one hundred and seventy country in the world. 119 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: And these organizations are not just for Muslim people. You know, 120 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: you're a Jewish, you're Christian, Catholic, or you're Muslim, you're 121 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 2: believe in God, you don't believe in God, you can 122 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 2: go to these schools or these organizations and learn about 123 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: method science or about life, you know. 124 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: So, the gul And Movement and the currently ruling Justice 125 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: and Development Party or AKP, that of course is Urdawan's party, 126 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: were at one point allied, and at that time they 127 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: championed the American quote unquote style of secularism that supported 128 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: individual rights to freedom of religion over what we call 129 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: assertive secularism. And they formed a tactical alliance in order 130 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: to defeat their common foes through political means, which were 131 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: the military leaders and the secular elitists. All of that 132 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: sounds good, right, but then things took a turn in 133 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: a very dark direction. And can you explain how that 134 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: happened to this country that you grew up in and 135 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: that I'm sure you loved and probably still loved to 136 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: this day. 137 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: So, actually, mister Gulan and Ardom, you know, they have 138 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 2: a couple of pictures together, but they were really never allies. 139 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: Media wanted to make it look like they were allies, 140 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,239 Speaker 2: but they were never allies. And also till twenty twelve, 141 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: Airdron was saying he's going for democracy. He's gone for 142 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: freedom and all that stuff. And that's why lots of 143 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: the people from you know, Gulam moments, not Julan himself, 144 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 2: but the Yula moment was voted for him. So a 145 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: lot of people you know from AKP party and Gulam 146 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 2: woman to become policemen, judges, or journalists or persecutors and 147 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: they were running the country really really well. So back 148 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen, there was a big corruption scandle happened 149 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: in Turkey and President Ardan, his family and some of 150 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 2: the congressmans close to Erdoon was involvement. And when they 151 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 2: cut his voice, when they cut his tape that he 152 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: stole from people, it was a huge news because they 153 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: caught the whole world just so that Adam was a 154 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: crop leader. You can literally go on YouTube and hear 155 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 2: every word when he got cut, and obviously he got 156 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 2: so mad he wanted to put everyone in jail who 157 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: was saying that he stole from people. He's a crop leader, 158 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: you know, So that's why he started putting people in jail, police, judges, 159 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 2: prosecutors or media and started the shutdown media outlets, and 160 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 2: he started shouting down prep schools in Turkey who are 161 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 2: affiliated with good Moments. And that is the first time 162 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 2: I said something. I'm like, I don't care who you are. 163 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: If you are fighting against education, I'm going to say something. 164 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 2: I tweet something about it, and just because of you know, 165 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: the platform that I have, it became a conversation in 166 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 2: Turkey and America, and I was like, wow, I just 167 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 2: see an even power of one tweet. So from now on, 168 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 2: I'm going to start paying attention what's going on in 169 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: my country more, because till then I only care about basketball, 170 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 2: you know, just make a lot of money, take care 171 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: of my family, take your people I love, and just 172 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 2: represent my country in America. But after that happened, I'm like, okay, 173 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 2: I gotta be just more than a basketball player. And 174 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 2: that's the first time I said something, and things just started. 175 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: And you didn't just say something. I mean, you talked 176 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: about Due as a lunatic dictator and even compared him 177 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 1: with Hitler. 178 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 2: So after I said something in twenty thirteen, you know, 179 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 2: things were getting worse and worse. And twenty fifteen was 180 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: the last time that I was back in Turkey. I 181 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 2: only stayed there for like fourteen days, and I remember 182 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: whenever I went there. My family were like scared and say, 183 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: ncl and you don't go out alone. You're going somewhere, 184 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 2: Just go with like a couple of your friends. Let 185 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 2: us know where you're going and stuff. And then you know, 186 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 2: that was the last time I saw them before I 187 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 2: left my family. I remember that morning I had to 188 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 2: sit down conversation which my family with my mom and dad. 189 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 2: I said, listen, there's a path that I'm taking, and 190 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 2: whatever happens, I'm not going to back down. And because 191 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: of the stand that I'm going to take, you guys, 192 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 2: we are going to get haressed a lot. You guys 193 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 2: might be in jail one day and you guys might 194 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 2: be like the most hated family in Turkey. I told him, 195 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 2: because I know what the conversation was gone, and I 196 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 2: told him. He was like, listen, if you are with me, 197 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 2: then you're with me. If not, then tell me now. 198 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 2: So I can, you know, make up my mind and say, okay, 199 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: I'm alone in this. My mom said, if you are 200 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 2: you know, standing up for something good, something right, then 201 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: we are with you. If not, then we are now 202 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 2: with you. And I looked at my dad. My dad 203 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 2: did not say a word. He didn't say anything, because 204 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: I'll be honest, all he wanted me to do is 205 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 2: play basketball. And then I left. We call a cap 206 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 2: and I remember my mom and my sister went to 207 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 2: a balcony to like to bade me goodbye, and I 208 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 2: get in the cab. I turn around and they were raving, 209 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 2: and I told myself, this is the last time I'm 210 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 2: seeing them. 211 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: The Pacers Foundation is a proud supporter of this episode 212 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: of Rafel Convision with Jason Flam and of the Last 213 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: Mile organization, which provides business and tech training to help 214 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: incarcerated individuals successfully and permanently re enter the workforce. The 215 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,359 Speaker 1: Pacers Foundation is committed to improving the lives of Hoosiers 216 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: across Indiana, supporting organizations that are dedicated primarily to helping 217 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: young people and students. For more information on the work 218 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: of the Pacers Foundation or the Last Mile Program, please 219 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 1: visit Pacersfoundation dot org or the Lastmile dot org. This 220 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: episode is underwritten by the AIG pro Bono Program. AIG 221 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: is a leading global insurance company, and for over a decade, 222 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: the AIG Obono program has provided thousands of hours of 223 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: free legal services and other support to nonprofit organizations and 224 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: individuals most in need. More recently, the program added criminal 225 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: and social justice reform as a key pillar of its mission. 226 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: Maday twenty sixteen is when Urdawan sees the Goulan newspaper 227 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: It's called Zaman, and then he recategorized the Goulan movement 228 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: as the Fetula terrorist organization, which is it's gaslighting, right. 229 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: He was turning into a terrorist state while calling the 230 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: peace loving people the terrorists. But then again, we see 231 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: that here in America. Up until you know, January twentieth 232 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: of this year, it looked like we were going down 233 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,719 Speaker 1: that road. So there was an attempted coup carried out 234 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: by a faction of the Turkish armed forces known as 235 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: the Peace and Home Council, and everything went really crazy. 236 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 2: Now many people knows, but the night of the courttempt 237 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 2: I was with mister Gillan and he was shot. He 238 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 2: couldn't believe it. The first thing he did was call 239 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 2: all his friends, all his students to get together and 240 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 2: pray for Turkey because that night, over two hundred and 241 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 2: fifteen intes of people died. After the quotemp Dan came 242 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 2: out and blamed the Guilla moment for the coottempt and 243 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 2: that moment, I was like, this is the craziest thing 244 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: I have ever heard, because I saw what mister Gillan 245 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: did with my own eyes that night, he sat in 246 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 2: his chair and prayed for his country. And when the 247 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 2: air Don blamed the Gillen moment and mister Gillan for 248 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 2: the quotem, I'm like, I'm gonna do whatever I can 249 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 2: to tell this story to the whole world. And the 250 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: Turkish government got really really mad because there was their plan, 251 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 2: you know, the quotemp, and then du one can pretty 252 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 2: much become a one man show, put everyone in jail 253 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 2: whoever's against them, shut down all the media outlets who 254 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 2: are whoever's against them, or just put all the journalists 255 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 2: and judges, and changed the military and everything. 256 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: You know. Since this time, over one hundred thousand Goolan 257 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: followers have been purged from their civil service jobs and 258 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: over fifty thousand have been arrested so far, you know, 259 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: and who knows what's become of them. So after the 260 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: attempted coup is when things started getting really scary for 261 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: your family, your immediate family. You know. 262 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 2: My dad got fired from his job and my sister 263 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: went to medical school for six years. She still cannot 264 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 2: find a job. My little brother was playing basketball, and 265 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 2: you know, he wanted to be an NBA player, but 266 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: he was literally getting kicked out in every team because 267 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: of the same last name. So they were getting affected 268 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 2: so much. They had to put a statement out there 269 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 2: and saying we are disowned an NS. But Turkish government 270 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: did not believe that. You know, they sent police to 271 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 2: my house in Turkey and they raided the whole house 272 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 2: and they took a really electronic away, computers, laptops, and 273 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: iPads because they wanted to see if I am still 274 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: in contact with my family or not. If they were 275 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: to see any text message, email, phone call or whatever, 276 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: they will be all in jail. Which they took my 277 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: dad in jail for a while. We put so much 278 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 2: pressure from here the Turkey they let him go. 279 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: You know. 280 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 2: I asked my brother like after my dad got out, 281 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: like how's my dad doing? And my brother said, we 282 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 2: asked him the questions like what happened in there? What 283 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: did they ask you? What did they do to you? 284 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 2: He never talks about it after, you know, he got 285 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 2: out of jail. He was just watching the walls and 286 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 2: acting so weird. And stuff. So I don't know what 287 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 2: did they do in there to him, but he was 288 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 2: just not the same person. 289 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: And then, of course in twenty seventeen, you know, you 290 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: were charged with terrorism, convicted in absentia, and you were 291 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: facing four years in prison, and they came after you. 292 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: Now this was at a time when and I don't 293 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: know how. By the way, it's really remarkable to me, 294 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: maybe basketball is your one place where you can for 295 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 1: a couple of hours tune out. Nobody can focus on 296 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: the bad stuff. Twenty four hours a day ll go insane. 297 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: So I'm glad that you have basketball, and it's incredible 298 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: that you're able to focus on it and continue to 299 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: exceed expectations the way that you do. But twenty seventeen, 300 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: this is the story that you told me over dinner, right, Yeah, 301 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: so you were on the tour teaching kids, and then 302 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: in Indonesia, shit went crazy. 303 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 2: So we said, okay, after twenty sixteen, we are definitely 304 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 2: not gone back to Turkey, and my managers like, let's 305 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 2: do something for kids, and let's just go to these 306 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,640 Speaker 2: countries do basketball camp. Talk about education, talk about social harmony, 307 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 2: healthy lifestyle, with respecting your parents, We talk about universal 308 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 2: peace and just do basketball camp because sports is an 309 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 2: amazing tool to bring people together. You know, you can 310 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 2: be from different countries, different colors, different days and that whatever, 311 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 2: different beliefs, but you can cheer for the same team. 312 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 2: So in twenty seventeen, we planned to visit seventeen country 313 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 2: in like thirty five days. Right, we start with Pacific. 314 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: Visited Japan, Singapore, Philippines. But the same time, obviously my 315 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 2: friends were saying, listen, Turkish government is like octopus. They 316 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: got arms everywhere, so be careful. We visited the seven 317 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 2: countries in pacifics our last one was Indonesia. We held 318 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 2: a basketball camp. We were meeting with Turkish communities. We're 319 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 2: visiting schools. End of the night, my friend asked me 320 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: if you want to stay in a school or do 321 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 2: you want to stay at the hotel. You know, he 322 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 2: showed me a picture of the school. The beds were 323 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 2: so small and I'm I'm not going to fit here. 324 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 2: So while I was at the hotel, I was sleeping, 325 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 2: my manager knocked my door about like two thirty am. 326 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 2: Something is that come to my room. We need to talk. 327 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 2: We got a phone call from one of our friends 328 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 2: in a local in Jakarta. He said, there are some 329 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 2: people in the school who just had basketball clinic with 330 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 2: They are asking for you, but we have no idea 331 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: who they are. And she's like, what do you want 332 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 2: to do. I was like, I want to stay because 333 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,239 Speaker 2: next day we have so many things scheduled. He's like, 334 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 2: this could be very dangerous. We need to escape the country. 335 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: You know. 336 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 2: It's very scary to be in a country that you 337 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 2: don't know the language, you don't know the culture, you 338 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 2: don't know the people there, and you are in danger 339 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 2: and you literally trying to escape the whole country, you know. 340 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 2: And we look at the flights. Our first flight was 341 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 2: I believe five thirty AM to Singapore. In fifteen minutes, 342 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 2: I pack everything, we get in the cap at the 343 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 2: same time. But while we go in the airport, we 344 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 2: are taking a video and send it to our lawyers 345 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 2: in America, like if something happens, so they can use 346 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 2: that as a proof that we are about to get kidnapped. 347 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 2: So we came to the airport, I mean obviously Indonesian, 348 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 2: you know, people are not that tall, and everyone asking 349 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 2: me questions like, hey, I've told you, what are you doing? 350 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 2: Why are you here? So my friend just said, just 351 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 2: sit down in a chair and do not get up. 352 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 2: I'm just going to get the tickets and we are 353 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 2: going to leave. We got the tickets and we left 354 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 2: the country at five thirty am and we landed in Singapore. 355 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 2: My manager's like, let's call our local guy there in 356 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 2: Jakarta and see, like, who was those people came to 357 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 2: school that asking for you. And our local guy said, 358 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 2: you guys are very lucky because those people they were 359 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 2: intelligence service and army and wanted to talk to you, 360 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 2: and that talk was not going to be just a talk. 361 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 2: What usually Turkish government does is work with these countries 362 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 2: like Malaysia, Indonesia and some of the other countries. 363 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: You know. 364 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 2: They took people there and put a NetPlane and set 365 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 2: it back to a Turkey so if you were to 366 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 2: stay there that night, they could ship us back to 367 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 2: the Turkey. And then we were like, okay, let's just 368 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 2: go to Europe and do our basketball clinics there and 369 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 2: do our events there. Our first stop was in Romania. 370 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 2: It was my birthday and we had this like huge event. 371 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 2: Thousands of people were gonna come and we're gonna do 372 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 2: a big event in Romania with some of the Turkish 373 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 2: people there, so I gave my passport to this lady. 374 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 2: She took like five ten minutes and she said, hold 375 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 2: on a second. She went in the back. She came 376 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 2: out with the police and said, sir, your passport has 377 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: been revoked. And I was like, hold on a second, 378 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 2: why is my passport revoke? The police said, we are 379 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 2: not allowed to tell you, but if you want to 380 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 2: learn more about it, you can call the Turkish embassy. 381 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: And I'm like, those are the people who revoke my passport. 382 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 2: I'm not gonna call them. So my marriage is like, 383 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 2: we literally have like two three hours to get out 384 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,399 Speaker 2: Romania because if not, I'm not an American citizen, I 385 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 2: still count as a Turkish citizen, so they could have 386 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 2: just sent me back to Turkey. So we literally like 387 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 2: have two three hours who left the country. So I 388 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 2: guess like the best way they just go back to America. Right. 389 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 2: We called every person we know, like congressman, senators, we 390 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 2: even like texted NBA player association. So we getting up 391 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 2: a flight. We were gonna land in London and come 392 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 2: back to America. We landed in London and the captain 393 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 2: announced and said, nobody gets up and me and my 394 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 2: manager's like, what's going on? The plane? Doors are open, 395 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 2: and there's this Two police with machine guns came in 396 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 2: the plane and they're looking for someone, right, and they 397 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 2: took someone behind us. I guess there was like a 398 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 2: terrorist or someone in the plane. They took them out, 399 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 2: but they took so long that we missed our New 400 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 2: York plane. So there's this ticket lady. It's like, listen, 401 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 2: there is no more flight to New York. You guys 402 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 2: have to stay here. Don't worry. I'm gonna give you 403 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 2: guys like a hotel and come back in. So we 404 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: told the ladies, like we cool, we're going to stay 405 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 2: at airport. And she was just so weirded out. It's like, 406 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 2: what do you mean you guys could He's like no, no, no, 407 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 2: we're cool. We're going to stay at the airport. So 408 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 2: that night we stayed at the airport. The next day, 409 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 2: front of our plane, there was this gentleman I still 410 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 2: remember him, but like glasses jacket, very serious, like he 411 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 2: asked for my green card again, my green card. He 412 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 2: took some nose call some people and he's like, okay, girl. 413 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 2: Later on we learned that he was from Homeland Security. 414 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 2: Because I didn't have a passport, so I wasn't going 415 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 2: to be able to fly. So like Homeland Security got 416 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 2: in and then we came in a plane. I was like, man, 417 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 2: this feels home. I am not living here till become 418 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 2: an American citizen and then since then I'm here. 419 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: At any time for however long. It took two days, 420 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: three days this journey. At any moment, you could have 421 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: been done and you were facing four years in prison. 422 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: But we know that that could have turned into very 423 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: easily a death sentence, torture, or they could have extended 424 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: it indefinitely because they could do whatever they wanted that country. 425 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: Right now, I mean, let's face it, so this is 426 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,719 Speaker 1: a serious, serious thing that you went through. I mean, 427 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: I hope you have a good therapist, because I feel 428 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: like I'm going to need a therapist after listen to 429 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: this story. You know, so you made it out alive 430 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: and you got back to American soil. You're safe here. 431 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: It's hard not to mention the fact that you aren't 432 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: even able to go and play the Toronto Raptors on 433 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: an away game because you simply can't leave the country 434 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: without fear of being extradited to face this four year 435 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: sentence or worse. But the Turkish authorities, after failing miserably 436 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: to apprehend you, I'm sure there was hell to pay 437 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 1: back there for the people who weren't able to capture you. 438 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: But they weren't done messing with you. And because they 439 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: couldn't get you, they decided to extract their revenge on 440 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: your family, on your father specifically, And in June of 441 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:04,719 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, your dad, doctor Mehmetcantor, was tried, I'm 442 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: able to call it a sham trial, charged with terrorism 443 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: charges right again, the gaslighting bullshit, and sentenced to fifteen 444 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: years in prison. Of course, he appealed to charges, but 445 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: that went nowhere, I mean even here. Those things usually 446 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: go nowhere. But somehow or other, and I'm amazed by this, 447 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: you were able to shine a light on this awful 448 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: injustice and free your father in June of twenty twenty. 449 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: I'm amazed that that campaign was successful. But tell me 450 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: what this is all about and how this affected you 451 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: and how you were able to get him home? 452 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: Right, I mean, so he's been going in a lot 453 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 2: of jails and in a lot of Turkish courts for 454 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 2: years and years, right, so they were so scared of 455 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 2: what I was like saying, they banned my Twitter account 456 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 2: and Turkey. So if you go to Turkey right now 457 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 2: and try to check what I twiteter or anything, you 458 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 2: cannot see whatever I'm saying. But I'm like, okay, right now, 459 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 2: what can I do to bring more awareness to discount? 460 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: So that's why I started to work with some of 461 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 2: the politicians. And you know, I went to DC many times, 462 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 2: and whenever I sit down and have a conversation with 463 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 2: it both sides, you know, Republicans and Democrats, and I 464 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 2: started to tell them about my story, tell them about 465 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 2: the people who are facing the same situation. They were like, 466 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 2: we already know these conversation, tell us how can we 467 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 2: help you? And that actually gave me so much hope. 468 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 2: So I start working with politicians, working with senators, working 469 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 2: with congressmens and congresswomen's media really helped us, not just 470 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 2: in America, but you know internationally, really really helped us 471 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 2: to bring awareness of what's really going on in the Turkey. 472 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 2: So and then you know, like we put so much 473 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 2: pressure on them every time they touched my father or 474 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 2: every time my dad was about to go to jail 475 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 2: or go in to a trial. We were bringing so 476 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 2: much awareness to it, you know, we were writing opeds 477 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 2: about it, we were talking to media about it. And 478 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 2: then in twenty twenty, my brother, the one in Greece 479 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: he plays basketball now, finally texted me and said, my 480 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 2: dad is free. They got to a point that were 481 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 2: so scared they have to let him go. And you 482 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 2: know a lot of people are like a lot of 483 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 2: my teammates and friends have texted me and said, hey, man, 484 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 2: you can finally relax. Now take a vacation, you can 485 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 2: finally focus on yourself. But I was like, no, my 486 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 2: fight is just getting started. You know, my family was 487 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 2: only one. I never just did this to only free 488 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 2: my father. There are so many people out there there. 489 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 2: Stretion is way worse than my father's. Turkey is the 490 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 2: still number one country in a world that put most 491 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 2: journalists in a jail. You know, we are just getting started. 492 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 2: We are not going to stop till every innocent person 493 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 2: in those prisons are free. 494 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: Amen to that. It's a nightmare I can't even begin 495 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: to imagine. And it's going to require people like you, 496 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: people of good conscience, with courage and conviction is the 497 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: only word I could think of. Ironically, who are going 498 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: to ultimately bring about this change. It's the only thing 499 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: that ever does, and otherwise it's going to say the 500 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: same and get worse. Of course, we're going to put 501 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: links in the bio for people to learn more about 502 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: this fast moving but slow motion nightmare that's taking place 503 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: for so many people in that beautiful country of Turkey. 504 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: And now we come to the part of our show, 505 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 1: which is a segment that we call closing Arguments. It's 506 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: the part of the show where first of all, I 507 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: thank you and a scanter for coming here, taking your 508 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: time and sharing your remarkable journey, which is still unfolding 509 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: as we speak. And then I turn my microphone off 510 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: and leave yours on. This is the part of the 511 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: show where you get to say whatever you want, anything 512 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: that's been left unsaid, anything you want to tell people. 513 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: But please, as part of that offer any advice you 514 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: can give to people who are listening. Say I'm just 515 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: one person I want to help. I don't know what 516 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: to do. What can people do to help? 517 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 2: First of all, I think, you know, just there's not 518 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 2: just one authoritarian regime in the world. You know, Turkey 519 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 2: is not the only one. There are so many of 520 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 2: them author in the world that I feel like the 521 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 2: best what we can do is just standing up against 522 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 2: those regimes. That is the one question I was always getting, 523 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 2: like what can we do to help? So that's why 524 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 2: we started this initiative call you Are My Hope campaign. 525 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 2: We are planning to call like signatures. You can go 526 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 2: to you Aremhope dot org and sign the initiative and 527 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 2: with those signatures, we are planning to take them to 528 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 2: a White House, United Nations Human Rights course, maybe European 529 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 2: Parliament and says listen, there are so many human right 530 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 2: abuses are happening in Turkey. There are so many political prisoners, 531 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 2: and there are so many journalists are in the general 532 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 2: right now waiting for help. There are thousands of people 533 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: are behind this cous There are so many signatures behind 534 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 2: these cous So let's take some actions. That is the 535 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 2: one thing you guys can to It will take one 536 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 2: minute of your day. You are My Hope and sign 537 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 2: the initiative. We already got over eighty thousand signatures so far. 538 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,239 Speaker 2: But other than that, it's like the best way to 539 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 2: just beat those regime is just educate yourself, because they 540 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 2: are really scared of educated people because they only want 541 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 2: the yes men's around them, and people who's not going 542 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 2: to ask any questions and do whatever they want them 543 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 2: to do. You know, I feel like the education is 544 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 2: the best way to just beat those regimes. 545 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 546 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence projects and go to the 547 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: link in our bio to see how you can help. 548 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff 549 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: Cliburn and Kevin Warns. The music on the show, as always, 550 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be 551 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and 552 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason 553 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: Flamm is a production of Life Off for Good Podcasts 554 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: in association with Signal Company Number one