Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime Trouble.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition to All the Smoke. Jack,
Speaker 1: what's up with you? Baby? And they ain't all live? Man,
Speaker 1: we got a very special guest today, Man, big homie,
Speaker 1: most dominant player ever on the basketball court, Man Shot.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you on the person to catch me in
Speaker 1: mid air before we Before we do, you're gonna get
Speaker 1: the jokes. So I got some jerks hack sack with Flower,
Speaker 1: but then he got the Vestibo got the Christ on
Speaker 1: his tattoos. Jumping boy here looking like hey man, But man,
Speaker 1: thank you for your time down year for the world.
Speaker 1: What was one thing positive or negative you took from
Speaker 1: last year? Was the hardest year of my life. I'm
Speaker 1: forty nine years old and I've had a couple of deaths, grandmother, father,
Speaker 1: But when my baby sister died that hit me. She
Speaker 1: was forty. That really hit me because she had she
Speaker 1: had cancer a couple of times and we beat it.
Speaker 1: So when they told me she had cancer again, I
Speaker 1: figured we're gonna beat it. But then it was just
Speaker 1: too late. So I already got insothing anyway, So I
Speaker 1: just made it times ten. And then one damn downstairs
Speaker 1: working out with my youngest son, Shaquire, and one of
Speaker 1: my other son comes in the in the Gymuey. He's
Speaker 1: crying and I'm trying to prefigure out what he's crying.
Speaker 1: When I say crying, I'm talking about tears everywhere. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, my mom, okay, your mom, okay, my kids okay.
Speaker 1: And then I see the Kobe thing. So now I'm like,
Speaker 1: it gotta be a hoax because I was watching the
Speaker 1: game when Brian passed him up. Probably just somebody messing
Speaker 1: around on on the internet, and then the coach just
Speaker 1: kept coming in and then you go watch TV and
Speaker 1: it just it just hit. It put me in a
Speaker 1: I should have Mowte. I should have spent more time
Speaker 1: with my sister. I should have reached out to young fellow.
Speaker 1: I should have just called to just check on them.
Speaker 1: I should have. And you know, things like that you
Speaker 1: can never get back. Somebody did a picture. I hope
Speaker 1: you'll find this picture of an old Shock and old Kobe.
Speaker 1: That's how I would have liked it to Ben. And
Speaker 1: you know how it is as as as basketball players,
Speaker 1: we don't always get along, but if the respect is there,
Speaker 1: you can never be beaten. Like y'all know him, he was,
Speaker 1: he was alpha. Y'all know me. I was the alpha.
Speaker 1: We didn't always agree on things, but when it comes
Speaker 1: time to compete on the court. I think the fact
Speaker 1: that we always competed with each other made us even
Speaker 1: more unstoppable, because Matt, you know me, I'm always in
Speaker 1: the stats. Oh damn you and I only got fifteen.
Speaker 1: It's something wrong with that picture. So we would always
Speaker 1: compete with each other, and we was able to win
Speaker 1: three out of four, and we did the Laker interview
Speaker 1: and we we we talked. We had a good time.
Speaker 1: Last time I saw him was when he announced he's
Speaker 1: gonna be playing the last game. T and t uh
Speaker 1: flew down and I did what I always did when
Speaker 1: he was a youngster, and man, as you get fifty,
Speaker 1: and what do you do? You know? I got sixty.
Speaker 1: That was probably the last time I saw him. But
Speaker 1: I should have reached out. I should have got in
Speaker 1: this DM. I just should have shouldar shouldar should have it.
Speaker 1: So now I'm just trying to reach out more to
Speaker 1: people that I know, people that allow people that I
Speaker 1: care about but it's been a hard year. But growing
Speaker 1: up from a drill sergeant type father, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't want to use the word get over, but you're
Speaker 1: trying to overcome certain things and you're just trying to
Speaker 1: try to move on. But it's hard. It really is hard.
Speaker 1: I got a mirror of Kobe and my sister in
Speaker 1: the house, so I see him every day. But it's
Speaker 1: it's hard, and it just puts me in that I
Speaker 1: should have mowed and you should never be and I
Speaker 1: should have mowed. So my advice to everybody out there,
Speaker 1: if you want to get something done, you want to
Speaker 1: call somebody, you want to say something to somebody, just
Speaker 1: do it. It doesn't matter if you have past differences,
Speaker 1: past beef, if you got respect for that person, you
Speaker 1: love them and you just hain't talking for a while,
Speaker 1: did I mean that's you're good to face time about
Speaker 1: the blue broke, it's out the blue of that, you know.
Speaker 1: I love that and I want to congratulate you. I
Speaker 1: really love this show. This show speaks our language. That's
Speaker 1: actually the first show ever that speaks out of language.
Speaker 1: I like the fact that you guys don't trying to
Speaker 1: Brian Gumble. It down, So congratulations and I hope you
Speaker 1: guys get many, many many more awards. Was tough, but
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do big things and you know, Prospero,
Speaker 1: just stay focused. I mean, obviously with the pandemic hitting
Speaker 1: basketball is kind of changed from what we know it
Speaker 1: to the bubble last year, two limited fans this year?
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on this unique yet strange season.
Speaker 1: It's different, and I think what I have to do,
Speaker 1: what we have to do is I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's the right thing to do, but we have to
Speaker 1: stop comparing them to us. It's hard. That's all I
Speaker 1: know is greatness coming from Texas. All I know is
Speaker 1: the Spurs. All I know is Magic Johnson. All I
Speaker 1: know is magic being the big man. All I know
Speaker 1: is Kareem Will Russell. All I know is greatness. Sometimes
Speaker 1: so sometimes when I don't see greatness and I say
Speaker 1: I don't see greatness, they think we're hating. Well, I
Speaker 1: thought the definition of hate was somebody that can't do it,
Speaker 1: somebody that ain't doing that. None of them guys ain't
Speaker 1: ain't doing anything that we ain't done, see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So I just tried to actually I tried to do
Speaker 1: the same thing that that they did us. I mean,
Speaker 1: when I first got to l I was putting them numbers,
Speaker 1: but we was losing the ad of here Spurs and
Speaker 1: Utah over here, so somebody hate. Kareem was like, hey man,
Speaker 1: Shack probably one of the best Laker big man ever.
Speaker 1: And Kareem said he ain't winning US. So with him
Speaker 1: having G fourteen classification, I can't say nothing back. I
Speaker 1: can't say nothing back. So I thought, because I had
Speaker 1: G fourteen classification, so many guys would take it as
Speaker 1: constructive critics, says right, And then some of the guys
Speaker 1: and the same thing I did with young fella, man,
Speaker 1: you ain't that good, and he'd go, he'd be like, okay,
Speaker 1: watch this thirty forty right. So but I guess people
Speaker 1: ain't like that no more. And then I got the
Speaker 1: call from the guy mother baby, he's somebody like but this, look,
Speaker 1: this is all I know. This is really So when
Speaker 1: I went at Donovan, and I kind of felt sorry
Speaker 1: that I kind of hurt his feelings, but I was
Speaker 1: just testing his temperature. Knew that. Yeah, So like when
Speaker 1: I said, man, I don't think you got what it take.
Speaker 1: I want him to be like, Okay, oh man, watch this,
Speaker 1: but he's doing that. He's showing us now that that
Speaker 1: so exactly what I wanted. But of course at the Internet,
Speaker 1: oh he taken it too far to that. But what
Speaker 1: I was saying was, you can be good, but when
Speaker 1: it comes time, the playoff time, you gotta get to
Speaker 1: next that next level. We all had to go through it, y'all.
Speaker 1: Remember I was out thirty, we get swept by the Spurs,
Speaker 1: and you talk, I wasn't good enough yet. It wasn't
Speaker 1: good enough yet. So that's it was. It was a
Speaker 1: challenge to him. But I like his game. I like
Speaker 1: the fact that big guys are starting to emerge back up.
Speaker 1: I like Joker m Problem and this league. Now the
Speaker 1: guys that that are at the top, besides the Brian
Speaker 1: k then these are guys that are similar to what
Speaker 1: y'all had to go through, work hard to get to
Speaker 1: wherey'all that and I love that Like Steph Kurry, he
Speaker 1: wasn't know talk about guy coming out of high school college,
Speaker 1: but he my favorite player and he my favorite practice.
Speaker 1: I've never seen that like that before closet. The things
Speaker 1: the step I've seen was Mike Mood So when I
Speaker 1: say Steps my favorite player, he really is because the
Speaker 1: guy that was from here worked his way to the
Speaker 1: time and did it the right way, didn't team up
Speaker 1: with nobody. Him and Claye Draymond. They did it the
Speaker 1: right way. So yeah, that's crazy. So I like I
Speaker 1: like Joe. I like the way he playing out. Doc
Speaker 1: got him playing like a big man. And it's funny that,
Speaker 1: you know, always tell big guys just because you can shoot,
Speaker 1: don't mean you have to shoot. Like, no disrespect to y'all.
Speaker 1: I know you're all the great players, but I'm not
Speaker 1: shooting jumpers on y'all. I'm gonna try to back y'all
Speaker 1: doth and you ain't gonna try to post me up face,
Speaker 1: all right, So you know what. So that's just the
Speaker 1: name of the game. So a lot of times when
Speaker 1: we say these things, I guess some of the guys
Speaker 1: take it personal. But you should know. And this thing
Speaker 1: of IRUs. If you guys play well, everybody get paid, everybody.
Speaker 1: So if I'm giving you answers to the tests, hopefully
Speaker 1: you take them. If you don't take them, I understand,
Speaker 1: but I don't. I don't. I don't want y'all to
Speaker 1: you know, think it's hate, like with Dwight Howard earlier
Speaker 1: on people you hate on the like. No, I'm telling
Speaker 1: him if he average, it ain't nothing nobody can say
Speaker 1: to him. So but it's it's fun. I like it,
Speaker 1: you know. I like the I like the going going
Speaker 1: back and forth and this thing of oves. Only we
Speaker 1: understand it, like I remember, Uh, you know that they
Speaker 1: have to be thing about you know, talking trash white guy.
Speaker 1: That's why I gotta that's what we do. Yeah, not
Speaker 1: at all and personal. It's just what we're doing, you know.
Speaker 1: Only we understand that when you get outside is talking
Speaker 1: about it, you know, becomes a big thing. We discussed
Speaker 1: how Alan everything kind of changed the culture of basketball,
Speaker 1: you know, not only on the court, but off the
Speaker 1: court with his appearance. You said, Steph Curry changed the
Speaker 1: face of basketball itself and how the game has played him.
Speaker 1: Before we even got on air, you were talking about
Speaker 1: a situation with your older son. We had a chance.
Speaker 1: He's standing in the corner when he should have dove
Speaker 1: back in the day. But now that's what the game is,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of a Steph Curry effect. Talked to us.
Speaker 1: Steph Curry is messing the game up. I'm on the
Speaker 1: internet now I see a bunch of little kids dribbling
Speaker 1: shooting a hundred foot us to give more to st
Speaker 1: the game. But he's doing something for them. He's giving
Speaker 1: them a chance. So what I mean by giving him
Speaker 1: a chance? Do you have to day I talked about
Speaker 1: Rudy Gobert making two hundred. People thought I was hating.
Speaker 1: But it's given big guys that aren't David Robinson, Tim Duncan,
Speaker 1: Dirk Demny is giving them a chance. If you work hard,
Speaker 1: this is the bridge you can make. And that's the
Speaker 1: point I was trying to me. I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I said this is I was sing. I said, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm about to say, he ain't worth it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that, but you you get with, you negotiate,
Speaker 1: and that's what it is. Well, I'm not gonna say
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't. I don't like talking about people. Bread.
Speaker 1: I'm glad he got it. But the same thing happened
Speaker 1: to me in high school because my my dream was
Speaker 1: to make eight millions for ten years. That's my dream
Speaker 1: going up to San Antonio's. One day my father came
Speaker 1: intout to the paper and he hit me in the face.
Speaker 1: Keep your hands up. We're going to the game. So
Speaker 1: we go to the Spurs game. We at the top.
Speaker 1: You should see him. He just signed fifteen for three
Speaker 1: John contact and he wasn't that good. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's when I just I said he I said, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, I learned to school about inflation and economic
Speaker 1: I was like, ship by the time I come out,
Speaker 1: I can probably at least get twenty. So I end
Speaker 1: up getting forty. But so you know, it's all about
Speaker 1: it's all about watching these guys and you know, learning
Speaker 1: from But you know, Steph, it probably is the most
Speaker 1: influential player when it comes to little people because I
Speaker 1: see a lot of I see a lot of little guards,
Speaker 1: like a little kids. I'm going to this tournent day.
Speaker 1: They're doing stuff I can't even do. And it's good
Speaker 1: and bad. Nobody running the lane. Everybody is stopping at
Speaker 1: three point line. Coach you like I coached the Twins,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And like I said, it's
Speaker 1: from the time they warm up there shooting it from
Speaker 1: like the out of bounds line instead of like hitting
Speaker 1: layups and everything. And that's literally the effect and the
Speaker 1: whole team shoots threes, now, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of just the way the game has moved.
Speaker 1: So I understand, like you said, giving little people a
Speaker 1: chance is what steps doing and giving them hope. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, like you said, there's a reason
Speaker 1: why Steff is so great because he makes a lot
Speaker 1: of the motherfucking shots. He makes a lot, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, other people don't make as many. And I
Speaker 1: used to hate on him early on in his career,
Speaker 1: but he ain't gonna make that. But he kept proving
Speaker 1: me wrong. That's why my bed player, I like being
Speaker 1: proved wrong. Yeah. So my message to these young cats
Speaker 1: when I say something proved me wrong, yeah, take it wrong.
Speaker 1: Because my Kareem and was doing all that talking. That's okay,
Speaker 1: you're right, Mr Abde. I'm not winning. I understand. I
Speaker 1: appreciate what I will. And I called my father, he's
Speaker 1: my fucking he right, Yeah, you ain't doing ship. He said,
Speaker 1: you've been in l A four years and got swept
Speaker 1: four times. Now you did doing videos and rap songs
Speaker 1: and ship. You ain't doing nothing. I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: you're right, sarge. And then that's when you know, Phil
Speaker 1: came along, and you know we started turning around. So
Speaker 1: remember that. I mean, the thing needs to be by
Speaker 1: the three. You die by three. Like no teams were
Speaker 1: winning shooting a large amount of shot at three point
Speaker 1: attempts like they are now obviously, and they've changed the dynamics.
Speaker 1: So it makes sense. Take us back to your upbringing,
Speaker 1: your family dynamic. You know, military kids are moving around.
Speaker 1: Born and raised in Nook, New Jersey, high level juvenile delinquent.
Speaker 1: Got out of there just in time. This is around
Speaker 1: the time where people stop using their hands by chaining
Speaker 1: knife and then pistols started coming out exactly. So, by
Speaker 1: the grace of God, moved to Germany, got away from
Speaker 1: that right to three years in Germany. Now only thing
Speaker 1: I could focus on this basketball. So I'm terrible, six nine,
Speaker 1: Cut from the freshman team, cut from the sophomore team. Again.
Speaker 1: My father comes in the house. Keep your ass up.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go see this college coach, see if you
Speaker 1: can get a scholarship. It was Dale Brown. So I
Speaker 1: went in there and said, hey, coach, I need help.
Speaker 1: I ain't make the team. Blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: It's like, but I'm thirteen six nine, can't play. I
Speaker 1: got a bad knee. I got osgod I got I
Speaker 1: got the brown knee, breads with the whole. I'm slow
Speaker 1: as hell. I can't do anything. People laughing at me.
Speaker 1: So Coach Brown writes me, I do everything you say.
Speaker 1: So the next year, I still didn't make the team.
Speaker 1: So I sent him a little up man, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: just join Army. Just join Army. They're right. I'm I
Speaker 1: can't walk and you down at the same time. I
Speaker 1: can't do it. So he said, no, I'm off your scholarship.
Speaker 1: So now we leave. When I come back to Texas
Speaker 1: and I go to a small high school in Texas,
Speaker 1: our team is terrible. I make the team all ship,
Speaker 1: and I'm starting to get a little confident. And then
Speaker 1: my dad take me to see John Contact and now
Speaker 1: everything just changed overnight for me. Everything just changed over
Speaker 1: the open night for me, being that I was a
Speaker 1: hip hop kid, had little rhythm. I'm not doing with Korea.
Speaker 1: I'm not doing those sky hooks. I like this magic cat.
Speaker 1: So you know, I started working on my little handles right.
Speaker 1: And then when I first started dunking, I never wanted
Speaker 1: to dunk. So Junior, yeah, I got forty five at three,
Speaker 1: I'm killing the little dudes. I'm playing against my finger
Speaker 1: rose it I miss. My father comes out, its fatigues.
Speaker 1: Time out. He you know, he walks the middle of
Speaker 1: the floor. Yeah, he's time out. So yo, man, time out.
Speaker 1: Bring you. As I said, I'm cool. The public inding
Speaker 1: me out. I got the flavor flat like I'm I'm cool, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm cool. So he takes me aside. See how man fuck?
Speaker 1: You know? Said man, I'm just you know, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm working on my little matt wap smacks me. Ain't
Speaker 1: no magic be Shaquille O'Neill. But that's when I started dunking, right,
Speaker 1: and the reason why I've always dunk so fierce because
Speaker 1: I was mad at him and I wanted to tell
Speaker 1: the room down. But it was just regular dunks dunk.
Speaker 1: So then I'm going home, and you know, he's making
Speaker 1: me watching college games and I'm watching Syracuse play Sherman
Speaker 1: does the stories to Ronnie cycling. He duncan, but he
Speaker 1: getting his legs up. Okay, So the next game, my
Speaker 1: father said, I'm dunking and getting my legs up. So
Speaker 1: when I learned from that, people started doing that I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I got something there. So that's when
Speaker 1: I just started Duncan Duncan, Duncan, Duncan Duncan, dunk and
Speaker 1: dunking dominated, dominator dominated, And I'm the type. I was
Speaker 1: always a jealous kid. If your name is ahead of me,
Speaker 1: I'm coming after. B J. Tyler was ahead of me,
Speaker 1: right le Bradford Smith was out of me. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: had a dude name Matt something that was ahead of me.
Speaker 1: So I'm maveraging thirty four in Texas, but nobody recognized
Speaker 1: on all these guys ahead of me. So I'm coming
Speaker 1: for because that's what I've been doing all my life. Right,
Speaker 1: So I'm coming, I'm coming, I'm coming, I'm coming. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to teach my son. Now, I said,
Speaker 1: our lives is about peace and valleys. It's only a
Speaker 1: few people that come in and just do this. But
Speaker 1: the rest of us terrible high school player, high school
Speaker 1: all American. Oh, now you gotta go to college. Hey,
Speaker 1: they gotta do name Chris Jackson stand, you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to wait. Okay, now you're the man. Oh now you
Speaker 1: get to the pros as you and as Robinson, as
Speaker 1: the King I like. I like being challenged. I like
Speaker 1: when people say you can't do it. That just you know,
Speaker 1: makes us work harder. So my father was always a
Speaker 1: guy that never told me I was great because he
Speaker 1: knew that that was gonna make me want to be great.
Speaker 1: And when I did accomplish something, he'd take the trophy.
Speaker 1: That's why I went so hard when when I was winning,
Speaker 1: because I took the trophy, he didn't say, good game enough.
Speaker 1: All right, see you letter have fun September coming around.
Speaker 1: Let's even get another one, pussy m but get to
Speaker 1: two is good. Lakers went back to back. Then you
Speaker 1: go back to back to back. So that's why I like,
Speaker 1: you know, went so hard. And then the business of
Speaker 1: basketball kicked that and you know, stop moving around, started
Speaker 1: getting older. But you know, I wish I could have
Speaker 1: stayed to stay there the whole time and take me
Speaker 1: back a little bit. Though when you said he would
Speaker 1: it was obviously a challenge. But at what age did
Speaker 1: to start becoming Was it ever like, damn, dad, is
Speaker 1: he's rough on me and this is or was it
Speaker 1: always a challenge from the jump you looked at as
Speaker 1: a challenge or what did you ever look at it like, damn,
Speaker 1: he's not my real father. But I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: believe in that. So he met me and my mind
Speaker 1: when he was two, so he my real father to me,
Speaker 1: and he made me hard, Like I would go outside
Speaker 1: and get bullied and he'd be like, I come in
Speaker 1: the house. Were you gonna I didn't fight. You're too big.
Speaker 1: I have to fight, and like he because you know
Speaker 1: we're from we're from northern New Jersey, the projects. So
Speaker 1: his thing was you're too big to be soft. He
Speaker 1: didn't have a son, but I was his son. He had.
Speaker 1: He had two daughters. But he's like, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: let you be soft. And he told me football, basketball, baseball,
Speaker 1: and bast the ball. He just kept saying these three names,
Speaker 1: Kareem will Bill and from like five, he said, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make you the most dominant big man ever. And
Speaker 1: I could remember one time when I was ten, I
Speaker 1: had one move, fake left, go right, throw it off
Speaker 1: the back board. So we was beating this team like
Speaker 1: nineties and three, and the dude come and grabs his kids.
Speaker 1: This motherfucker ain't ten. If he's ten, he's gonna be
Speaker 1: the best big man ever. Like I remember that. So
Speaker 1: you know, my dad was like dominate, don like you
Speaker 1: would always say, dominate, dominate, dominated, dominated, tominate. So the
Speaker 1: fact that he stayed on me, and then the fact
Speaker 1: that I like to be challenged, and the fact that
Speaker 1: when you were a big guy, you can't be soft.
Speaker 1: You put all that together and then turned into you.
Speaker 1: And then the fact that when you moved from place
Speaker 1: to place, you you learned different things, like Nork, it's
Speaker 1: one set of coult you want to rout. Then he
Speaker 1: moved to Germany, when you bro when I went to Texas,
Speaker 1: I had never seen nothing like that before. Hey, boys
Speaker 1: was hard. Spanish cash was hard. We was hard. Like
Speaker 1: it's just you know, like I would have to like
Speaker 1: walk through certains to get the world Plan. I ain't
Speaker 1: never seen nothing like before. And again that was the
Speaker 1: time when all this was done. They started doing and
Speaker 1: now you got to navigate like a certain way, and
Speaker 1: like you know, we we like to do what we
Speaker 1: do and get on our stuff. But I'm thinking about
Speaker 1: my MoMA new house. I can't I can't got time
Speaker 1: for that. I can't do that with you. All right.
Speaker 1: Now they got you know, they got all these dudes
Speaker 1: ranked ahead of me, on for let me get there first,
Speaker 1: and then we're talking about but right now, I can't
Speaker 1: do it. So and then you know, most of the
Speaker 1: guys that were that were doing it, they were responsible
Speaker 1: enough to say, uh, go that way, you got something else,
Speaker 1: don't go this way that way. So shout out to
Speaker 1: all the homies that took care of me. When did
Speaker 1: you know you can dominate on the court? I remember
Speaker 1: seeing you in high school and the states in the
Speaker 1: state and Austin State championship. I didn't know I can
Speaker 1: dominate until I heard somebody else say, like, my father
Speaker 1: was the only one in my year. Right. But then
Speaker 1: when I'm looking at the paper and I'm like getting
Speaker 1: the validation that I want, I still don't believe it.
Speaker 1: But now you get, Dick Vitela say something. Now I'm
Speaker 1: laying for real, Dick, you think I'm the best high
Speaker 1: school player in the country. Okay, watch this. So that's
Speaker 1: when I knew I could start dominating. And then, like
Speaker 1: every every level, you learn. So in high school playing
Speaker 1: against little guys, it was easy. But then when I
Speaker 1: got to college, I had to go back to zero
Speaker 1: because Stanley Robberts used to kill me. Everybody, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I used to y'all don't understand the stuff I was
Speaker 1: doing new people. I got that from him back. Yes,
Speaker 1: every day he used to back me, now, back me down,
Speaker 1: drop step, pump, fake and dump on me, embarrassed me,
Speaker 1: legs all out everybody, that's Jim going crazy. I got
Speaker 1: that from him, so he would do it to me.
Speaker 1: I was trying to do it to him. But we
Speaker 1: go back and forth every day. Then when he failed
Speaker 1: out being that, I was trying to go at him.
Speaker 1: Already had all that. Then when it was my turn
Speaker 1: to step up, I did that. And then when I
Speaker 1: got to the pro same thing. You know, Robinson used
Speaker 1: to kill me Uli Jouan Rick smits like all these
Speaker 1: dudes just to kill me. And I had to had
Speaker 1: to learn. I had to learn. I had to learn.
Speaker 1: I had to learn. I had to develop my own
Speaker 1: technique like I wish I could have did with guarding
Speaker 1: that and Duncan did faced up and do it. I
Speaker 1: got all that, but I had trying to do that.
Speaker 1: The double and triple is coming, so I had to jump,
Speaker 1: throw it out, clear the land and get it and
Speaker 1: go quick. So but listen, it was fun. I was
Speaker 1: on the mission. I was always on the mission for
Speaker 1: a guy that who said there was terrible. I wanted
Speaker 1: to be known as one of the greatest players ever.
Speaker 1: And even though I would validate myself, I never believed
Speaker 1: until other people validate. Like you know, when you you're
Speaker 1: playing in the T and T games, you hear Ernie
Speaker 1: Stephen in direction from the court, differ like Matt bon Like,
Speaker 1: it's different, So you know you get you get earning
Speaker 1: them guy As to say your name, and Dick Ye
Speaker 1: till Tell and Bill Roffery and all those guys to
Speaker 1: say your name. They started believe in and I started
Speaker 1: believing it. Yeah, And then you had the money game
Speaker 1: of that I'm trying to get that bread, trying to
Speaker 1: get that bread. Like when I was like being the
Speaker 1: first pick, I think it was either Larry or Derek
Speaker 1: went before me. They got a nice thing, and I
Speaker 1: learned the college negotiation. You started high. So when I
Speaker 1: first came to them, I was I don't want eighty.
Speaker 1: I told my guy won eighties, I can't get you
Speaker 1: any I can play get your forty take forty. So
Speaker 1: then we were one of the first ones to sign
Speaker 1: a seven year deal, but with the option up the
Speaker 1: three after that, so I'm you gotta so if you
Speaker 1: ever sween you one this year, you got to go
Speaker 1: to four. So I'm already knowing that. So there got
Speaker 1: some people start talking to a hundred millions. So that
Speaker 1: was a motivation. Being great was the motivation. And just
Speaker 1: playing and competing with a motivation because I ain't gonna lie.
Speaker 1: I was terrified of David Robinson and Patrick my rookie
Speaker 1: terif because they had they because they had it all.
Speaker 1: But now when I'm in the game and you would
Speaker 1: go to the turnaround and I'm right there, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh ship, he's human. And then don't let me block one, well,
Speaker 1: don't let me dunk on you. Then all that, you know,
Speaker 1: all that fear is gone something David Robinson, the way
Speaker 1: he ran and all the people like I was terrified
Speaker 1: those guys. But at some point, the student must kill
Speaker 1: the teacher to become the master, and that's all I
Speaker 1: wanted to do. Let's go back to coming out of
Speaker 1: high school. What other colleges was recruiting besides that University
Speaker 1: of Texas, Tom Penders, North Carolina, North Carolina State in Illinois.
Speaker 1: But I'm sort of like you and Matt I'm a
Speaker 1: mama's boy. I had to be closer to career. And
Speaker 1: the fact that and the fact that Dale Brown offered
Speaker 1: me a scholarship before I became the shock, that mental lot,
Speaker 1: that mental lot. He saw something you didn't see. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they shut me up at the football game too.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you how they did me. So when
Speaker 1: I first get there's a whole bunch of dudes, so
Speaker 1: you know, if you want, this guy seven ft one
Speaker 1: l s HU from San Antonio of l s U
Speaker 1: makes a note, so they put the spotlight on me.
Speaker 1: I turned around nothing but man, yeah, man, the gray
Speaker 1: and the blue out Like, damn man, I'm about to
Speaker 1: sid that right now. That yeah, I was like, man, yeah,
Speaker 1: I sign it. Yea, What was I mean? Obviously we'll
Speaker 1: get to the jump in the NBA. But what was
Speaker 1: college basketball like back then? Because it was people weren't
Speaker 1: coming straight from high school. People are going to pay
Speaker 1: their dudes in college. You had to pay your dudes
Speaker 1: as dumb as you ended up being. What was that
Speaker 1: era of college basketball life. I'm glad I had experience
Speaker 1: of not being the man, because when I went to college,
Speaker 1: I was a man. But the first thing I got.
Speaker 1: There was a rude awakening. I couldn't get no girls,
Speaker 1: couldn't get in the club. I had to wait in
Speaker 1: line at the lunch room. Nobody knew who else. So
Speaker 1: now I'm just sitting back. Don't think about me, as
Speaker 1: I'm a great observer. So it was Chris Jackson, Stanley Roberts,
Speaker 1: and we had a quarterback forgot his name was Toy something.
Speaker 1: But the dudes are like god on campus. I just
Speaker 1: sit back and watch him. Don't be like that's gonna
Speaker 1: be me one day. So you know, you just have
Speaker 1: to You just have to work your way up. I
Speaker 1: didn't start my freshman year, you know, I got some
Speaker 1: pt but I just learned the game, you know. I
Speaker 1: learned that the doubles coming, I learned where to make
Speaker 1: the passes at. I learned how to make an impact,
Speaker 1: and I learned how to put on the show. I
Speaker 1: had a bunch of dudes, four or five, my friends,
Speaker 1: my tutors. I made some T shirts, shack pack. I said, yo,
Speaker 1: let just sit up here. Anytime I do something, go crazy.
Speaker 1: It was already just yeah, just just go crazy, rebound,
Speaker 1: dump block, just do it. So yes, so now you
Speaker 1: see ten kids, and I see twin kids and now
Speaker 1: you see thirty kids. So but it was different. And
Speaker 1: then I realized that even though you're good and great,
Speaker 1: it's always somebody better. Like I was the man in
Speaker 1: the West, but that Tim Dunston wasn't. They're saying, y'all
Speaker 1: be like all them day we all got something. So
Speaker 1: we go up against Duke Christian later tell me a
Speaker 1: new one, and then dig tell him starts saying his name,
Speaker 1: and now I'm mad. Now I know I got work
Speaker 1: to do, So I'm jump hooking it every night, going
Speaker 1: to the gym. Y'all go on the club. Now I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I'm trying to get this first pick now and
Speaker 1: now only saying I need the first pick? What is Alonzo? Dude?
Speaker 1: Now y'all got me at three? Oh hell? So now
Speaker 1: I'm working out every day. We played Duke one more time.
Speaker 1: I showed him who I am and we still lose,
Speaker 1: but show him, which you know, puts me back at
Speaker 1: the top. But look, I like being challenged. It just
Speaker 1: I think it makes you the person and coming from
Speaker 1: where were coming from. And I've been on both of
Speaker 1: y'all since your first come in Langue. We don't back
Speaker 1: down all ever, even if we know we can't do it,
Speaker 1: we're still don't back down. I think that's what makes
Speaker 1: us all great. That's when I try to beat, you know,
Speaker 1: and still in these youngsters. But I think they got
Speaker 1: it too easy. It's different. Yeah, it wasn't that that
Speaker 1: that that struggle, that ground we had. I remember the
Speaker 1: first time we met um. Actually you guys my freshman
Speaker 1: UCL with the lockout, so you and Cob used to
Speaker 1: come to use heal again we saw you. But I
Speaker 1: remember when I worked out for the Lakers. The small
Speaker 1: fir comes out the back and tights, shower shoes, no shirt,
Speaker 1: nipple rings. Just give me a big old hug. I'm like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck? Nipple rings? Bro? I don't don't think
Speaker 1: I'm freaky like that. I did lose the nipple rock.
Speaker 1: So you end up being the first pick in Orlando,
Speaker 1: you know, New Expansion. What was that experience? Like, I
Speaker 1: learned how to become arrogant m m, but professional arrogance.
Speaker 1: It's important because growing up I never talked back to
Speaker 1: my father, high school coach or college coach. You got
Speaker 1: a pad, I gotta tell you the story. Hand me
Speaker 1: that why ain't got in there. It's just so you know,
Speaker 1: I'm nice and respectable. I'm trying to do things the
Speaker 1: right way. But these guys in my ear, man, it's
Speaker 1: your team and you gotta take over. These these guys
Speaker 1: are hey man, it's your team. Forget all that we
Speaker 1: we it's your team. So I'm like, na. So one day,
Speaker 1: Jerry Reynolds Iceman in the shoot around, we're playing against
Speaker 1: Dale Ellis and Maddie Gookas was like, hey man, they're
Speaker 1: gonna run to these plays for the LAS. You gotta
Speaker 1: go over the screen. So the first three players, Jerry
Speaker 1: go under the screen. So we call the time out,
Speaker 1: and man, he was like, goddamnit, Jerry go on that.
Speaker 1: So this is the first time I seen him play
Speaker 1: talk back. I've never seen that before. It's the first
Speaker 1: time I se him play talk back. Jerry knows, go
Speaker 1: funk that ship, call some place for me too, you know.
Speaker 1: Then Maddie did it, and then he was like, see,
Speaker 1: so that's how you gotta be. So that that's when
Speaker 1: I that's when I kind of started that, I kind
Speaker 1: of started serving myself. So my first power moments, my
Speaker 1: first power moves. After we lose I'm in l A
Speaker 1: same day we lose. On the Sunday, I'm in l A.
Speaker 1: So I'm shooting the movie Blue Chips, and they I said,
Speaker 1: you gotta make me a court so I can work
Speaker 1: out the skinny kid is motherfucker diamond me up like matching.
Speaker 1: I don't know who he is because you know, man,
Speaker 1: I don't be paying attention to you don't care. So
Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking, here, actor. So finally I see him.
Speaker 1: Who's this? They said, yoh man, that's Penny Hardaway. I said,
Speaker 1: he actor. He said, now you know that. You know
Speaker 1: they think he's gonna be a number two and number
Speaker 1: three pick. And I'm like that. So I got this
Speaker 1: in my head. So my first major move was when
Speaker 1: when I found out we got the ball. Hey, man, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't get this, Penny, dude, I'm gonna be looking
Speaker 1: to do something else, just to try. For the first
Speaker 1: time I was ever arrogant, first time I ever talked back.
Speaker 1: So now we shoot the move whatever. So the draft comes,
Speaker 1: they draft Sea Webb. Now piss, I'm tearing my house up,
Speaker 1: breaking mirrors, breaking trophies, and then they do it, they
Speaker 1: do the switch. I'm like, man, this guy was right.
Speaker 1: It works. So the second big move, hey man, give
Speaker 1: me a horse. I don't know. If you're gonnafall hoard
Speaker 1: you don't get horse, I'm gonna be looking to do
Speaker 1: something else after my deal. So now I'm learning how
Speaker 1: to I'm learning how to maneuver because you know, they're
Speaker 1: saying it's your team, so we all know. If it's
Speaker 1: my team and it don't go right, I'm getting blong.
Speaker 1: So if I'm gonna get all the blame, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: make sure I'm totally in control. So that was what
Speaker 1: I learned about being a professional, because like, look, I'm
Speaker 1: my father used tell you something back in my father
Speaker 1: you're getting touched up, push ups, sit ups, and the
Speaker 1: damn Superman's on your elbows, and you gotta sit on
Speaker 1: the wall, and you gotta sit on the wall with
Speaker 1: some dictionaries like this, and if you move you get
Speaker 1: three paddles. So I went into like talking back. But
Speaker 1: once I figured out how to do that, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is how this this works. Yes, it is what
Speaker 1: is your welcome to the NBA moment, My welcome to
Speaker 1: the NBA moment. It is different because it's not about
Speaker 1: the game. My welcome to the NBA moment was when
Speaker 1: I first got to the Lando. I already got into
Speaker 1: my head. I need my family with me. So my mother,
Speaker 1: she don't want to take nothing from it. So we
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this big house and I already bought
Speaker 1: the house. So I'm looking at the big house and
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, I told him mysel I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get my house first. I'm gonna take care of y'all.
Speaker 1: But I was doing the opposite. So we're looking at
Speaker 1: this big house and she's like, I like it. Five bedrooms, tends,
Speaker 1: it's cool. Hand of the keys and watch them tears.
Speaker 1: That's my welcome to the NBA, because you know, riding
Speaker 1: around in Texas, I used to ride around San Antonio
Speaker 1: just looking like, damn, look how they live and look
Speaker 1: how we live. That's what I want. So that was
Speaker 1: my moment right there, just being able to buy my
Speaker 1: mom and dad a house, brothers and sisters, and then
Speaker 1: you know, take my dad to the dealership. I just
Speaker 1: got that black on black six. What you want, the
Speaker 1: same thing you want? So that was my bike to
Speaker 1: the NBA. MoMA. I already knew I was gonna do well,
Speaker 1: I gotta do well. But I didn't know that I
Speaker 1: was as close to the greats that early. Like I said,
Speaker 1: I was terrified of Ewing and Robinson. But if I'm
Speaker 1: right there on your shot, all I gotta do is, yeah,
Speaker 1: all I gotta do is make some of justice before
Speaker 1: I get it. And then I'm bumping you back and you, uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got you, And I'm close to the rim like that,
Speaker 1: and all I gotta do is term and throw it
Speaker 1: down you so mercy. But you know, it took me
Speaker 1: a while to get there, but look, it was fun.
Speaker 1: It was something that we always wanted to do. Get there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm there. I gotta represent my family and I gotta
Speaker 1: represent myself and I gotta look for challenges that's gonna
Speaker 1: make me great. M You were able to improve Orlando
Speaker 1: by twenty games your first year, and one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why I look at you so high as far
Speaker 1: as all time players and then all time big men,
Speaker 1: is because you played in a real era where there
Speaker 1: was a bunch of big men, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And it's all due respect to Bill and and to
Speaker 1: to Will, but there wasn't very many considered night and
Speaker 1: night out you faced a dominant big man. Who are
Speaker 1: some of the ones that really gave you problems early on?
Speaker 1: The ones that I didn't respect enough. I always told me,
Speaker 1: Big Country, I always killed me. Rick Smith's always killed me,
Speaker 1: Duck or if I always killed me, Bill Winnington always
Speaker 1: killed me. Who's the guy to play with? You all
Speaker 1: disperse for per due, Well, I wouldn't produce who it was.
Speaker 1: I just have to smoke so much weed, said Malik
Speaker 1: Rose and David I just hate my link gross he
Speaker 1: was in nuisance. But they're just like so which which
Speaker 1: also told me, you gotta respect your opponent. Like I
Speaker 1: know I'm better, but look, we all come out here
Speaker 1: to play a game, so you know, when it comes
Speaker 1: time to playoffs situation, I would turn and switch on.
Speaker 1: But like doing the regular say, especially like if you're
Speaker 1: in certain cities. Listen, Dallas, I wasn't gonna do nothing. Toronto,
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna do nothing, Miami. I wanted to do
Speaker 1: nothing in New York. I was gonna do nothing. Two
Speaker 1: times in the first quarter anyway, And I could remember
Speaker 1: me posting him in the game and COVID, no, you
Speaker 1: ain't ready. Well well, yeah, well the funniest of the funniest.
Speaker 1: That was big Shot Bob. He was doing for the game.
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing nothing up Shot Bob breaking back boards
Speaker 1: and this and signs bringing the breaking the backboards like
Speaker 1: talk about that. It was all being mad at my dad. Crazy, Yeah, crazy,
Speaker 1: I mean, motherfucker's were breaking broken backboard. It happened for
Speaker 1: but you were bringing down the whole because I knew
Speaker 1: if you, if I dunk hard, I got your attention.
Speaker 1: That scared me. Watching I was a little that she
Speaker 1: needs to scare me, Like I got your attention. That's
Speaker 1: if you're really big and strong and I go through
Speaker 1: and I got your attention, it's gonna be easier for
Speaker 1: me the rest of my career. So I just wanted
Speaker 1: to like really really get your attention. And I know
Speaker 1: it was gonna show it on ESPN and no other
Speaker 1: big I was doing that, like I had to take
Speaker 1: pride and being different. Another thing I was trying to
Speaker 1: do was get these commercial endorsements. There wasn't no big
Speaker 1: guys doing that right now. I took a college course
Speaker 1: a l s U and marketing, and the guy was like, hey,
Speaker 1: present on something that you could see in the future.
Speaker 1: So I came with the shock shoes, the same thing
Speaker 1: I'm doing that shock underwear, shack T shirts. And the
Speaker 1: guy says, big guys don't sell mr. I was like,
Speaker 1: he's right, because the only guys that were doing commercially
Speaker 1: there was Magic Johnson Library and made me Mike right.
Speaker 1: So I was like, you know, I gotta do something different.
Speaker 1: So I was I was doing whatever it take to
Speaker 1: get on that Da Nada and then once they see
Speaker 1: me there, then I would just show my don't show
Speaker 1: my personality. You've always been big on the business of basketball,
Speaker 1: probably the biggest to ever do it. To be honest
Speaker 1: with you, but what was that first experience like with
Speaker 1: Blue Chips as an actor, the pickup games of scrimmages,
Speaker 1: you found someone you thought was an actor who ended
Speaker 1: up being Penny Hardaway. What was all that like? That
Speaker 1: was about taking advantage of opportunities we don't We don't
Speaker 1: get those opportunities, and I never look, I never wanted
Speaker 1: to be an actor. I never wanted to be a rapper.
Speaker 1: When I'm sitting in the Fourth Seasons hotel, the guy say, hey, man,
Speaker 1: my Hollywood producer, here's my card doing a movie called
Speaker 1: Blue chips. I think you should do it now. I'm
Speaker 1: not a good I don't know. I've never acted in
Speaker 1: my life. You gotta do is play basketball, play yourself. Nah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get you three million? How much? I don't
Speaker 1: do it? So just playing, you know. And that's how
Speaker 1: I met Penny. You know, everything happens for a reason.
Speaker 1: The same thing with the rap thing when I first
Speaker 1: get drafted, sitting your hoss bucking me, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: want you to be on the show. I don't want
Speaker 1: to be like everybody else. I don't want to go
Speaker 1: get No. Fifteen out of suit talking. And I said,
Speaker 1: let me do that and then let me wrap that
Speaker 1: the end. So I did something with fush Nikins. My
Speaker 1: Asian Coleman said me, you're not gonna believe this. Said
Speaker 1: what he said? Drive off of your three album deal
Speaker 1: ten me. I'm taking that? Why none? Yeah. But then
Speaker 1: but then I meet with Job. I said, look, nobody
Speaker 1: wants to hit me wrap on myself. Let me wrap
Speaker 1: it on my favorite. So as a kid that was
Speaker 1: on punishment, it's like a dream come true. Look I
Speaker 1: know him dead Snoop, Peter Guns, Lord Rick Nas, jay Z,
Speaker 1: fat Jo like I don't. Yes, you can't stop to rain.
Speaker 1: That's what it was about for It ain't about being
Speaker 1: like because you know rappers, rappers don't make no money.
Speaker 1: You gotta you gotta be Travis Scott to make money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like because I went platinum and I gotta check for
Speaker 1: me and I was I was like, what is this?
Speaker 1: But you know I had the commitments on platinum only one.
Speaker 1: It was fun. So you know, we don't get a
Speaker 1: lot of opportunities. I was always talked to take advantage
Speaker 1: of my opportunity. So every time I get an opportunity,
Speaker 1: I'm always taking advantage of periods. Run because shut the
Speaker 1: Boston Garden down, beat the Bulls, pas her Battle and
Speaker 1: then you run into a team in them in the finals.
Speaker 1: That was my fault. We lost. You say that because
Speaker 1: as a leader, I didn't lead. After we beat the Bulls,
Speaker 1: I let up Mike. We straight. We didn't play in
Speaker 1: the Houston before. I think it was one on one
Speaker 1: on you know, even the King gonna get thirty, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get twenty seven. Right and off the record, we
Speaker 1: had eight days off. Me and the Scott were doing stuff.
Speaker 1: We weren't post. Yeah, they had they had like a
Speaker 1: little parade and all that we were just celebrating. So
Speaker 1: it taught me that would celebrate too early. And then
Speaker 1: when we get in the game, we hang out with
Speaker 1: him and then it just you know Nick, and you know,
Speaker 1: I can't blame it on Nick. My fault because I
Speaker 1: didn't get the guys ready. But Nick misses the free thos,
Speaker 1: we go down over one second game, we go down,
Speaker 1: oh two, we go to Houston, we know we don't
Speaker 1: have a shot, so we get swept. But it just
Speaker 1: taught me never to celebrate you early and then also
Speaker 1: put that hunger. I mean, I said, okay, if I
Speaker 1: ever get back to the finals ever again, I got
Speaker 1: to dominate forties. Forget that every time, I gotta be
Speaker 1: in the forties. And that's how when we made to
Speaker 1: the finals, I was trying to put up big numbers
Speaker 1: because if we don't win, it's gonna be my fault.
Speaker 1: And as a leader, I accept that. I went that.
Speaker 1: I once you said, shock ain't ship, that's why they lost,
Speaker 1: it's his fault. I accept all those challenges because that's
Speaker 1: how it was for me as a youngster growing up
Speaker 1: with a drill sergeant father. If you woke with your
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters in school. Then your brother come back
Speaker 1: when his shirt messed up because he got jumped. That's
Speaker 1: your phone and I'm whooping your ass handles on right,
Speaker 1: no question. So it just taught me never to celebrate
Speaker 1: too early. Obviously a cool run, but don't get what
Speaker 1: you set out to do, which was win the championship. Orlando,
Speaker 1: you make a jump to l A. How did that
Speaker 1: move not only benefit basketball wise, but change your life
Speaker 1: off the court as well. It was a hundred million
Speaker 1: dollar talk and I made forty the first time, and
Speaker 1: I said to myself, I'm gonna going off and tell
Speaker 1: him I want one, just to see. So they had
Speaker 1: it in their mind that no guys were rough a
Speaker 1: hundred millions. And I was actually getting ready to sign.
Speaker 1: We were here during Olympics. I was getting ready to
Speaker 1: sign for four yet ready signed to Orlando, but my
Speaker 1: agent told me, hold up, give me one more day.
Speaker 1: So me and money Mark we're in Magic City and
Speaker 1: my Asian called me and said, hey, man, come to
Speaker 1: the Omni Hotel. Got something for you. So we get
Speaker 1: to the Omni Hotel. Jerry West is in the Vasacchi housecoat.
Speaker 1: Come on up, big fella that comes like, how you on?
Speaker 1: Mr West? He said, I got some good news, we
Speaker 1: got some bad news. I said, what's the bad news?
Speaker 1: He said, I can't get you that one fifty that
Speaker 1: chance for but I can get you one twenty. And
Speaker 1: then I told my agent, I said, did you give
Speaker 1: Orlando a chance to come? They don't want to. Kind
Speaker 1: of cool, So I'm signing nobody now family then no,
Speaker 1: Penny ain't no. Next day, in practice it broke. I
Speaker 1: was comfortable with l A because after we lost, I
Speaker 1: was already in l A. And then there was a
Speaker 1: chance for me to stuff. Yeah, do so and they
Speaker 1: had a nice team. The next it was cold Eddie
Speaker 1: Jones and day they're probably gonna take some murder that
Speaker 1: had a nice day. But I can remember this vividly.
Speaker 1: I'm signing as soon as I get signed. Mr West said,
Speaker 1: a man, I just moved, Vlady. I don't know how
Speaker 1: I got this kid. I got a kid and the
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant, you and him, we're gonna get multiple championships.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever, because I'm looking at
Speaker 1: all the well, yeah, he said that like he saw
Speaker 1: something Kobe and nobody saw. And then in In an interview,
Speaker 1: Kobe reminded me that he came to Orlando to see Penny,
Speaker 1: and Penny kind of blew him off and he had
Speaker 1: a sad look on his face and I grabbed him,
Speaker 1: was like, come on, man, I take a picture. I
Speaker 1: never knew that was him. Yeah, I never knew that
Speaker 1: was him until he told me. You know, when we
Speaker 1: did that T and two and everything, he said, you
Speaker 1: don't remember meeting me. He never told me that. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, through all the years that we played in there,
Speaker 1: he never told me that story. I didn't know that
Speaker 1: you I did. You and co connect y'all robbed at
Speaker 1: the same time. He was a guy that wanted it
Speaker 1: right away. And we all understand pecking order. My team
Speaker 1: I ain't about to happen. But I saw that he
Speaker 1: had something in him and he wanted it right away.
Speaker 1: A lot of guys don't have that when they come in.
Speaker 1: A lot of guys just like to go through the road.
Speaker 1: But he wanted, he wanted it, He wanted, he wanted
Speaker 1: and wanted it. So it's rookie. Yeah, we let him
Speaker 1: do what he does. Make his mistakes, but the defining
Speaker 1: moment and his greatness was we were playing Utah. Nobody
Speaker 1: wanted to take the last shots. I'm not taking the
Speaker 1: last shot, shooting four percent for the free throw. Y'all
Speaker 1: ain't gonna be talking about me the shot class game.
Speaker 1: So he takes three shots to eil boss. If you
Speaker 1: can remember, and I hope you can show this clip,
Speaker 1: I was the one to grab him. I don't worry
Speaker 1: about it. One day people are gonna fear you. And
Speaker 1: the next year he come in and becoming a little more.
Speaker 1: He wanted it, he wanted it, he wanted it, he
Speaker 1: wanted it, he wanted it. And this is where I
Speaker 1: wish I was a little bit more tactful. Egos getting
Speaker 1: away that word my team will mess you up, right,
Speaker 1: especially from big guy giving up to a little guy.
Speaker 1: I don't play that ship, so instead of But unfortunately
Speaker 1: it still worked out. We still one three out of four.
Speaker 1: But a lot of necessary stuff that shouldn't have happened
Speaker 1: happened because of the ego, and it was probably my fault.
Speaker 1: But one thing I never do is I never disrespect nobody.
Speaker 1: I ain't gotta like you a you gotta do what
Speaker 1: you do. But if you open in the corner mat
Speaker 1: even if we had to fight the other day. I
Speaker 1: know you're gonna not that down for I'm killing it.
Speaker 1: So you know, even though we didn't hang out or
Speaker 1: do anything of that, I'm always looking for him first,
Speaker 1: and he's always looking for me when he go into
Speaker 1: the hole to get done with it and he dropping off.
Speaker 1: So I think that will help us. And always tell
Speaker 1: people that in relationships, you know, when you focus on
Speaker 1: the tasks, sometimes the relationship dwindles. But you always gotta
Speaker 1: have respect. You've always gotta have respect. I'm anxout to
Speaker 1: know how those how those Spurs teams were, did you guys? Ever? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the only person that got in the fight was man
Speaker 1: Pop every time he took me out the game when
Speaker 1: I want to come out, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like tim and and never none of that. That's that's
Speaker 1: probably the first time I'm hearing of a dynasty that
Speaker 1: never had no problems. All the other dynasties had problems.
Speaker 1: There are problems because you know, you get egos involved.
Speaker 1: But I knew that he had it, and I remember
Speaker 1: him at eighteen years old telling me he's gonna be
Speaker 1: the Will Smith of the NBA. Like slow down, young fellow.
Speaker 1: But he had a dream, he had a vision. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he did have a dream. He had a vision, and
Speaker 1: look he went for being forty nine year old Scheck
Speaker 1: looking back on those Laker days, he said he won
Speaker 1: three out of four. He said, you probably caused was
Speaker 1: some of the ego. If if you had the wisdom
Speaker 1: you have now back then, how many championships you feel
Speaker 1: like you guys could have won seventh? Because the reason
Speaker 1: why I got traded it wasn't about me and Kobe
Speaker 1: beefs what they wanted me to take less money? Not
Speaker 1: doing that? Coach said, at least ten. We asked him,
Speaker 1: he said, at least team if it wasn't for the Spurs.
Speaker 1: That's true. But I got money. I had money. I
Speaker 1: just should have been like, all right, I raised you enough,
Speaker 1: it's your team. Now, I know what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1: I'm still gonna do ten. But I was like, nah,
Speaker 1: I want I want one fifty. I don't care what
Speaker 1: you like. If I had all over do again, I
Speaker 1: probably would have had a meeting with the family, which
Speaker 1: I wonder, let me take less money, take a less role,
Speaker 1: stay here, or you were still want me to be shocked.
Speaker 1: Here's that ego and the ego still got me what
Speaker 1: I want. I should have went to Miami patri Care mean,
Speaker 1: I still won one, but I would have liked to
Speaker 1: have stayed there the rest of my career. Imagine that.
Speaker 1: So three championships, three finals, MVP you spoke to if
Speaker 1: you ever got to the finals, he's gonna dominate. You
Speaker 1: did that off the South Beach. What's that experience like
Speaker 1: with a young d Way? So when I got to
Speaker 1: d Wade, I was like, I know you heard all
Speaker 1: the stories. Share a team. Well I should have did
Speaker 1: in l am now what I'm thinking about it, So
Speaker 1: we ain't have any problem. You're the man, You're the CEO.
Speaker 1: I'll be the consultant. But imagine that. Is it a
Speaker 1: young V Wade here and this motherfucker's team, but it's
Speaker 1: your team. It's crazy. I didn't. I didn't. It's not
Speaker 1: that I don't pay attention to guys. I just don't care.
Speaker 1: I got my home. I didn't even know who he was.
Speaker 1: So while we're in the playoffs, I'm watching him go
Speaker 1: at Baron Davis. I'm night, who is this? So then
Speaker 1: when the Lakers talking about playing with me, I said,
Speaker 1: I know where I want to go go back and forth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to go play with him. So as soon
Speaker 1: they got to the first day, I said, look, man,
Speaker 1: you heard this, You heard that. Me and you ain't
Speaker 1: gonna have a problem. You know, man, take as many
Speaker 1: shots as you wanting you to make everybody feel good,
Speaker 1: think myself feel good. So but just and we never
Speaker 1: had problems. So how do you talk about the spurs.
Speaker 1: I've had problem. We never had an altercation. The only
Speaker 1: time we had an altercation was when I had to
Speaker 1: check everybody during the finals that year. Does everybody waiting
Speaker 1: into the final were already in the final versus Dollars
Speaker 1: when we went down a little too and everybody waiting like, yeah,
Speaker 1: what you're waiting for? I got three dudes on me
Speaker 1: when I kicked Posy flat like, so then we, you know,
Speaker 1: and the respect thing. We were able to go on
Speaker 1: the meeting and go at each other and it just
Speaker 1: surned around flat that I got four people on me
Speaker 1: though everybody folks on me. We're gonna use that though
Speaker 1: to me when they come, I'm gonna can't do something
Speaker 1: where I get the rebad This seriason about just throwing
Speaker 1: to me doing all that I ain't doing nothing right now.
Speaker 1: I'm old, I ain't doing it right now. But you know,
Speaker 1: every Johnson still worried about me, We're gonna use that.
Speaker 1: I kick it back out and go to work. So
Speaker 1: you know, we had one of the fight, one of
Speaker 1: the argument and was able, you know, decor, and then
Speaker 1: again Ego kicked in me and Pat got into him,
Speaker 1: and that's how I ended up in Phoenix. So you
Speaker 1: get a championship there, you end up in Phoenix. One
Speaker 1: thing I liked about you where obviously there was no
Speaker 1: question once you were on the court, you were the
Speaker 1: most dominant motherfucker. But me and you d were talking,
Speaker 1: we just how U d two weeks ago. You had
Speaker 1: a way of keeping the locker room energy light. And
Speaker 1: I think that's so important because you can't always be
Speaker 1: motherfucker like. Sometimes you have to laugh and joke and
Speaker 1: you were the king at that And where did that
Speaker 1: come from? It just you know, being a leader all
Speaker 1: those years, you gotta keep people together. One thing I
Speaker 1: like about him if you do something in front of him,
Speaker 1: he ain't gonna say nothing. So one day we're in
Speaker 1: the locker room, go, what isn't that going Judgic going
Speaker 1: drudge and keep talking. Yeo, man, shut up. He just
Speaker 1: keep talking. So I get behind him, put him in
Speaker 1: one of the UFC things. Yeah, he falls to the ground.
Speaker 1: It's me. It's me and Matt there not take his
Speaker 1: gatorady walk out. They asked what happened? Mess? I see
Speaker 1: but I told him, I said, he man, we got
Speaker 1: a game. Stop talking. Oh you're not gonna do nothing,
Speaker 1: you old, I said quick too, was like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you came in like what happened? Man, I don't know
Speaker 1: what happened, but but it was that I even had
Speaker 1: had a respect. But it's always my job as a
Speaker 1: leader to keep everybody loose. You know. Kobe spoke to
Speaker 1: that too, because he said he learned how to you
Speaker 1: did that and put it in his own way because
Speaker 1: he didn't understand that when he played with you, Because
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta keep everybody loose. Like you guys
Speaker 1: are shoot us and shoot us go on the slumps.
Speaker 1: But I can't. I can't. I can't come down on
Speaker 1: your shoes. So I gotta I gotta make you laugh.
Speaker 1: I gotta come to your house. I gotta ask you
Speaker 1: how your mama doing. I gotta come to your kids
Speaker 1: part Like we just gotta do all that the whole fan.
Speaker 1: The twins are babies, he'd be twins when they were
Speaker 1: just all along them, you know what I mean? A
Speaker 1: little tiny thing, one thing, Like I said, I don't
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about this, and we can
Speaker 1: go into it if you want to talk about it.
Speaker 1: The little back and forth war between you and Lou
Speaker 1: Walmington and man, what you did? You shoot around them
Speaker 1: one day? You put some in your tights this nigger
Speaker 1: put so him and Lou Walmson are going back and forth.
Speaker 1: This motherfucker put lose mouthpiece and his tights for shoot around.
Speaker 1: Went through the whole shoot around. He only told me
Speaker 1: and maybe one or two other people, but nothing. So
Speaker 1: this motherfucker puts lose mouthpiece and this type goes to
Speaker 1: shoot around with it and put quietly puts it back
Speaker 1: up in this thing. But by the time the game
Speaker 1: comes around, you must have told people because more people
Speaker 1: knew about us. So lout puts his motherfucking mouthpiece and
Speaker 1: after coach talks, so we're about the huddle and we
Speaker 1: just lose it because he because he did some ship
Speaker 1: to you though, because he broke I had a big
Speaker 1: gas bad and so I opened the door all the
Speaker 1: little white they hit this dude's bicycle. Somehow you got
Speaker 1: his bicycle up on the stoplight, at the top of
Speaker 1: the stoplight, his bike because you used to try to bike.
Speaker 1: I know some people, right, You got a chance obviously
Speaker 1: to play you being as great as you were. You
Speaker 1: got a chance to play with Code, You got a
Speaker 1: chance to play with the Wade, Nash Lebron, Paul Pierce KG.
Speaker 1: What was that experience like? Obviously you being great, but
Speaker 1: then you know, playing with those guys, some of them,
Speaker 1: some of them in your prime and then later on
Speaker 1: in your career. I realized early that you could never
Speaker 1: do it by yourself. How good you are. I realized
Speaker 1: from also watching the other grades, there's two or three
Speaker 1: grades on the court at the same time. My favorite
Speaker 1: team going over with the Lakers, Kareen magic Worthy Coop
Speaker 1: knowing what he do. So I always knew I needed
Speaker 1: somebody else of that caliber. So whenever I got traded,
Speaker 1: I wanted to go somewhere where why I could win
Speaker 1: and when I can help somebody else win. I wish
Speaker 1: I would have got to you in Phoenix two years
Speaker 1: because at that time and ages ages of months, I
Speaker 1: just didn't have it. Eventually I had it. But you remember,
Speaker 1: just like if Nellie and then wasn't doing that treatment,
Speaker 1: I probably him when two years earlier. But with my process,
Speaker 1: our process was fine. I had a great time doing it.
Speaker 1: I could say I did it my way. I could
Speaker 1: say guy from New Jersey, from Germany, from Texas put
Speaker 1: his name on the map. Guy represents the culture the hood.
Speaker 1: And I want all the little kids, especially the big kids,
Speaker 1: to look at me and see how I did it,
Speaker 1: and cheat off my test. Look at Rudy Gobert, see
Speaker 1: how he did it and cheat she off his time.
Speaker 1: I tell my son all the time, Yo, man two
Speaker 1: hunted two. That's right there, that's your money, and you're
Speaker 1: standing in the corner talking about your guy. Are not
Speaker 1: gonna pass? Go get it two bro. I wish I
Speaker 1: was seventeen right now, me too. I wish I could
Speaker 1: said to y'all, y'all wouldn't see me on those social
Speaker 1: media I just pop out of the man. Who's this kid? Man?
Speaker 1: Who this kid? From seven? I'll just be working as
Speaker 1: players like you spoke on early when you hear certain
Speaker 1: people talk about you as that shit, okay, tnc the
Speaker 1: postgame crew is that for us as players? What was
Speaker 1: it like, you know, to transition into that and being
Speaker 1: a focal point with that team. It came a year
Speaker 1: too early because when I left you, I had a
Speaker 1: two year deal with Boston. I wanted the shack to her.
Speaker 1: I wanted it, but the Achilles came out. I wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna even try and come back. I was just gonna
Speaker 1: take a year of travel. And then they come to
Speaker 1: the house and say, hey, man, we want to hire you.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, fine, So I'm trying to be like
Speaker 1: Brian Gum, but I'm terrible awful. And then you know,
Speaker 1: Charles gonna take up the whole second by talking. I
Speaker 1: only get a few sentences, right. So then the guy
Speaker 1: used to pitch you off because he used to say
Speaker 1: it on the air, like damn, mother, are you talking
Speaker 1: to us? But then the guy came in and said,
Speaker 1: I said, man, we didn't bring it in for that.
Speaker 1: He wants you to be shock, so okay. So once
Speaker 1: I started doing that, it's better. And you know a
Speaker 1: good thing about that show is they allow us to
Speaker 1: be ourselves. And I think from a basketball standpoint, we
Speaker 1: have a lot of experience. You know, the fans know that.
Speaker 1: You know, you got two Hall of Famers up there,
Speaker 1: and you've got a guy that was a part of
Speaker 1: the championship team, and you've gotta earn it. So I
Speaker 1: think our respectability is up there. But I like watching
Speaker 1: all the shows. I like watching all the shows. When
Speaker 1: this us talking and listen other people talking. If I
Speaker 1: can ask you how you know, then you're not incredible,
Speaker 1: right I think about it. Oh, he's Steven, should have
Speaker 1: did this? How you know you're shooter? Yea, yea. So
Speaker 1: being at this US talking to you, him, Paul and
Speaker 1: all that that is us talking. I can respect the
Speaker 1: fact because I know that y'all know. Y'all know that,
Speaker 1: we know, so real quick before we get to the
Speaker 1: quicker doesn't get you out of here. You've always been
Speaker 1: about the business of basketball from day one, and now
Speaker 1: obviously it's more commonly talked about and it's something to
Speaker 1: strive for. When people were talking about it, that was
Speaker 1: always your mindset. I mean, you're on every motherfucking commercial
Speaker 1: of you are a part of hundreds of companies where
Speaker 1: that mindset come from. I'm not gonna use the word
Speaker 1: beat up and use discipline whenever athlete did. I'm crazy.
Speaker 1: I would get disciplined, athlete, lose all, lose sixty million,
Speaker 1: I get disciplined, touched up by the starge. My worst
Speaker 1: ask weapon was lit byas I don't even know who
Speaker 1: linn by as well us. My father came in, face
Speaker 1: full of cheers. If you ever do cool, IM gonna
Speaker 1: kill you. So my my dumbas is like, Bro, I
Speaker 1: don't mess with coke. I'm missing PEPSI That's what I said.
Speaker 1: Motherfucker ain't talking about that because he made me sit
Speaker 1: down and watch it. That's what I never did drunk, right,
Speaker 1: That's why I don't do nothing that. I don't do nothing.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying that he came in, he was just right,
Speaker 1: and then I watched the story. My damn, my man
Speaker 1: could have been the first pick. So whenever somebody made
Speaker 1: a mistake, he brings me, don't teach me. So I
Speaker 1: never wanted to be bro. Do you remember what you
Speaker 1: did for me? That's how I got I had court. Nope,
Speaker 1: I'm sitting in court. I'm actually standing up. Judge walk
Speaker 1: in and as soon as you get ready, said, I
Speaker 1: was like judge, hold on, hold on, Mr Jackson. Before
Speaker 1: we even start I got somebody want to talk to you,
Speaker 1: and they FaceTime you remember, and all my charges got dropped.
Speaker 1: I said, this motherfucker's everywhere dog. This mother just turned
Speaker 1: around the FaceTime and big feather and dropped my charge. Said, man,
Speaker 1: that's my I had. But you didn't tell me. I
Speaker 1: was with Max. You know what I'm saying. You did
Speaker 1: not tell me, and I was like, let's do it everywhere.
Speaker 1: You know, you have to club take care of people
Speaker 1: taking You always took care of me, and y'all know
Speaker 1: I message with y'all. I'm messing with a lot of people.
Speaker 1: But this dude did some things for me. Trust me,
Speaker 1: you did some things for me. She could have went
Speaker 1: all the way left, but because he is standing up
Speaker 1: guy and you don't see nothing, that's how I go.
Speaker 1: That's let it go. So I'm always had love for her,
Speaker 1: more has had love for you. Being from Texas, I'm
Speaker 1: in one time when I came to your hood, you know,
Speaker 1: your whole hood showed me love. So I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: You know, when I saw you was going through that
Speaker 1: minding stuff. You know, I'm in that. I'm in that world.
Speaker 1: I'm in that world. Last quick Hitters first thing to
Speaker 1: come to mind. Your top five rappers. See, I hate
Speaker 1: doing this because I know all the rappers. I don't
Speaker 1: want them to get I don't don't want nobody get upset.
Speaker 1: Biggie Okay, since we're all basketball, can I do an
Speaker 1: Eastern Conference in the Western Conference a little bit? Okay,
Speaker 1: Eastern Conference Biggie jay z nas red Man and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to get somebody down south Jeezy Okay. On
Speaker 1: the West Coast, e forty Snoop ice cubeen to growing up,
Speaker 1: specially Texas. That's all we listened to. That's nice. I
Speaker 1: like the East Coast Top five the eastern East Coast
Speaker 1: was cool, though. I like that Top five current player
Speaker 1: current I hate doing this because they're all guards, all right,
Speaker 1: all right, Steph Dame Dollar, Lebron. We'll go with Joe
Speaker 1: like that. You know he's gonna let yeah. Top five
Speaker 1: dynastiest Lakers, Boston Spurs, Golden State and in the last one,
Speaker 1: Miami had, Miami had, Miami had looked no bulls. I'm
Speaker 1: tripping bull stamps. I thought, how would you rank your
Speaker 1: top five nicknames? Big Ariostotle number five World, Chambi Easy
Speaker 1: number four World Chambi easy, you know what that is?
Speaker 1: World chat? I forgot about that. Yeah, big would be
Speaker 1: three Big, Cactus would be too. Yeah, I'm a woman,
Speaker 1: be Godzilla Gorilla, so you don't know about that one
Speaker 1: Godzilla Cabrilla. If you can relive one moment from your career,
Speaker 1: what moment would that be and why? It'll be making
Speaker 1: it to the final four and winning a college ship
Speaker 1: may show I went on every level except college. How
Speaker 1: far do you guys go in the tournament? Sour thirty two?
Speaker 1: Five dinner guests dead are alive? You plus five people
Speaker 1: always just to see Tupac and we all used to
Speaker 1: give each other to not He'd be in it big.
Speaker 1: He'd be in it is doing big things that I'd
Speaker 1: like to chop it up at him. That's three. Four
Speaker 1: would be the guy who told me about business. Name
Speaker 1: was Roger Enrico. He was the CEO of Pepsi. And
Speaker 1: five would be my sisters rest pig, who would you
Speaker 1: like to see? All the smoke? And your answer if
Speaker 1: you have to help us get this person on the shlf, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to lie to you, don't. I don't
Speaker 1: watch a lot of TV because because I'm a Netflix guy.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know who you got. I would
Speaker 1: like to y'all have Snoop on of course, and that
Speaker 1: was when our best longest. We haven't had Q yet.
Speaker 1: We got you coming up. Have had all of them dope. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so one of those. And if you ever done than Joe,
Speaker 1: we need to have him on. So if you have
Speaker 1: do another song, come in, let's do it. We Overdo
Speaker 1: you need to meet all the smoke to tnc on night?
Speaker 1: Have us come out there? Yeah, I can do that
Speaker 1: with that the smoke lap Man. That's a rapid. We
Speaker 1: appreciate your big rap, Shaquille O'Neil. You can catch us
Speaker 1: on Showtime Basketball YouTube to the Kardashians over the catch
Speaker 1: us our Showtime Basketball YouTube and the Heart platform Black Effects.
Speaker 1: Well see you all next week. Appreciate your big fella.
Speaker 1: This is all a smoke a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime