Speaker 1: On the dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and
Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and
Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hi, welcome
Speaker 1: to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, my
Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Drante, and we're taking a trip. We
Speaker 1: we we're recording in Vista del Mar. Yeah, we are,
Speaker 1: are we? What is our generations? Uh? Cool lots? Is
Speaker 1: there is that? Is that just like, is there a
Speaker 1: pant for our generation that will qualifies cool lots? Or
Speaker 1: is that just kind of timeless across generations? Do you
Speaker 1: remember when gauchos were a big thing among vaguely there,
Speaker 1: I remember like Capri's was like I think that's the
Speaker 1: first that's the first distinct pant that I besides like
Speaker 1: shorts that I remember being like, oh and like middle school,
Speaker 1: like we would wear capris once it became March. Sure, right,
Speaker 1: it might be. I mean gauchos were a thing for
Speaker 1: maybe like two years when I was like a sophomorish
Speaker 1: in college, so you might owner couchos. Describe these they're
Speaker 1: basically the same thing as cool Lots, just with a
Speaker 1: different name. They look very comfortable now that I'm like older.
Speaker 1: I'm five years old now and like these pants, Like
Speaker 1: I understand the appeal of cool. I used to make
Speaker 1: fun of my mom's pants constantly, but it turns out
Speaker 1: that they were she was She was right. I was wrong.
Speaker 1: I was wearing like low rise jeans and had a
Speaker 1: death wish. You know. So, this is our podcast where
Speaker 1: we take a look at your favorite movies using an
Speaker 1: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a jumping
Speaker 1: off point for discussion. But what is that? Well, sometimes Himes,
Speaker 1: it's when a woman named Barbe and another woman named
Speaker 1: Star talk to each other about something other than a
Speaker 1: man for most of the movie. Um, but I guess
Speaker 1: more generally, our version of the test is when two
Speaker 1: people of any marginalized gender with names speak to each
Speaker 1: other about something other than a man and they have
Speaker 1: a you know, meaningful conversation, meaningful to the to the narrative. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, we're recovering Barb and Star go to Vista
Speaker 1: del mart today. I'm so excited to cover this movie,
Speaker 1: and we have an incredible guest with us. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: we sure do here. That was that was my Midwest attempt.
Speaker 1: I literally I did, okay, we I did check with
Speaker 1: my my boyfriend's mom, who is a bona fide barbon
Speaker 1: star type. I was like, is this do you feel
Speaker 1: like seen by this? Do feel like made fun of
Speaker 1: by this? And she was like, this is my favorite movie.
Speaker 1: I love it so much. Like we gave her our
Speaker 1: rental code for it and she flipped it is it
Speaker 1: is Sarah from Racing Wisconsin approved And that's good enough
Speaker 1: for me. Hell yeah. Our guest, though, is a comedian.
Speaker 1: She has a new audiobook out called Dirtbag Anthropology. She's
Speaker 1: the host of Reply Guys podcast. It's Kate Willett. Hello,
Speaker 1: We're so we're so happy to have you again. I
Speaker 1: cannot do this accent. We're so happy to have you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh thank you. I'm really looking. I don't know. This
Speaker 1: is like Tina Fains impression upstair, Palin, Yeah, yeah, so happy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you for bringing us this movie. Oh had you
Speaker 1: not hear it? I felt like you had probably heard
Speaker 1: of it because the person who told me about this
Speaker 1: movie was Julia Claire, who I know is a solid
Speaker 1: buddy of Jamie Loftus. I mean, yeah it was. It
Speaker 1: was on my radar, but I hadn't seen it until
Speaker 1: we started prepping for this episode. Yeah, me, neither. Actually,
Speaker 1: I was just like this sounds good. Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1: I was so excited for this movie to come because
Speaker 1: this this was like another movie that got pandemic, where
Speaker 1: it was shot like two years ago, and I remember
Speaker 1: seeing trailers for it like back when you could still
Speaker 1: be in movie theaters, and and because I think it
Speaker 1: was supposed to be like a summer movie last year,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, that that looks
Speaker 1: so good. I haven't seen Kristin Wig do something like
Speaker 1: truly goofy and fun and so long. So we we
Speaker 1: rented it the day it came out. It was awesome.
Speaker 1: It was great. I love it, especially after Christian Wig.
Speaker 1: I mean no, I we got a lot of requests
Speaker 1: for Wonder Woman, and then we both watched it and
Speaker 1: we were like, I don't I just felt nothing, and
Speaker 1: I felt angry. I was like mad at how bad
Speaker 1: I thought that movie was. And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe we'll cover it eventually, but I'm like
Speaker 1: it is not a priority for me because that movie Stunt.
Speaker 1: I heard it was really bad. It wasn't great, and
Speaker 1: it was also like I don't know, it's always like
Speaker 1: extra frustrating when it's like someone that you know, like
Speaker 1: I don't know, Christian Wig plays like the Big Bad
Speaker 1: in that movie, and it's just like she's boring in it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, how did you make her boring? Like that's
Speaker 1: a that's a you problem, Patty Jenkins. Sorry, remember when
Speaker 1: she plays a weird character and mother exclamation point? Oh
Speaker 1: I god, I try not to think about mother exclamation point,
Speaker 1: but that is true. And she's also I mean, she
Speaker 1: went through We've talked about this, like I think in
Speaker 1: our Crazy Stupid Love episode where it's like when the
Speaker 1: like super successful comedian goes through like a phase of
Speaker 1: movies that are all like very serious indies and some
Speaker 1: of them are good and some of them were like what, um,
Speaker 1: somebody had that phase. She's also, wasn't she in The Martian?
Speaker 1: Was she? I don't remember. Have I lost touch with reality?
Speaker 1: I don't know, it doesn't I don't remember that movie
Speaker 1: very well. I'm pretty sure. And she's in her She's
Speaker 1: in a lot of like real slow birds. Yeah. Anyways,
Speaker 1: this movie is a movie I actually enjoy, like all
Speaker 1: the ones we just listed, right, Yeah, yeah, I I too.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know me, I love a romp and
Speaker 1: this movie is like the textbook definition of a romp.
Speaker 1: And out of ten on Caitlin's rampometer, the rampometer, I believe. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Yeah, what a what? I wasn't sure
Speaker 1: exactly what to expect. I was. I think I was
Speaker 1: picturing kind of like a Girl's Trip esque narrative in
Speaker 1: the sense that, like two people go on vacation and
Speaker 1: they have a vacation. I is not expecting there to
Speaker 1: be like an evil mastermind villain. I wasn't expecting an
Speaker 1: evil revenge plot about killer mosquitoes. Like, yeah, it was fun.
Speaker 1: This was like it felt like it was one of
Speaker 1: those scripts where it just was like written in a
Speaker 1: state of like a very open mind of like what
Speaker 1: could we put in this movie, like Sky's the Limit,
Speaker 1: killer mosquitoes, an underground layer, you know, every south. It
Speaker 1: was just really funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I guess
Speaker 1: I should just get into the recap and then we'll
Speaker 1: go from there, shall we. Oh yeah, and Kate feel
Speaker 1: free to jump in at any time. The recap is
Speaker 1: a safe space. Okay, So we open on a young
Speaker 1: paper boy. This is Yo Yo. He is delivering newspapers
Speaker 1: around a neighborhood and then he enters the layer of
Speaker 1: Sharon Gordon Fisherman, whose name like I had to pull
Speaker 1: that from IMDb because I was not sure if we do.
Speaker 1: We hear her name, and then we call her share
Speaker 1: in a couple of times. But yeah, I just kept
Speaker 1: thinking of her as like bad Kristen Wig. Right, Yes,
Speaker 1: she is played by Kristen Wig. She's like a super
Speaker 1: villain type. And she reveals plans to unleash a swarm
Speaker 1: of genetically engineered killer mosquitoes into an as yet undisclosed
Speaker 1: small town. Then we cut to Barb and Star. That's
Speaker 1: Annie Mamolo and Kristen Wig, respectively. They live in soft Rock, Nebraska.
Speaker 1: Soft Rock. I love that so much good. This movie does,
Speaker 1: like really reward reviewing as because I've never seen it
Speaker 1: three times. Uh, there's something new and fun in like
Speaker 1: the super specific details every time. Indeed, Yeah, they are
Speaker 1: very stereotypical Western women in their forties types. They are
Speaker 1: best friends. They are also roommates, which I did not
Speaker 1: pick up on the first time. I watched it. Um,
Speaker 1: but they lived together and they share a bedroom, which
Speaker 1: is so funny, like Lucy and Ricky style. Yeah, thats
Speaker 1: like separate full sized beds. They work at a furniture store,
Speaker 1: which they get let go from because the whole chain
Speaker 1: has closed seven months ago. Seven months ago. They also
Speaker 1: get kicked out of their talking club, which is funniest
Speaker 1: joke I've ever heard, and like full of like recognizable
Speaker 1: like great female character actors. There's so many good it was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: just wonderful. I love this Talckey club so much, like
Speaker 1: it's like a book club, but it's a talking club.
Speaker 1: No books. Yeah, booklet for women who I've never read
Speaker 1: a book before. Watching Vanessa bearbe so extremely cruel to
Speaker 1: whoever was locked out of talking club is so good.
Speaker 1: I kept wondering who was like doing the voice of Gail,
Speaker 1: the woman who gets locked out. I forgot to look
Speaker 1: it up though. Also that um that the hot dog
Speaker 1: soup triggered my fight or flight reflex, because so, I
Speaker 1: mean it's like and I've seen I know that that's
Speaker 1: like poking fun at Midwestern food, some of which is
Speaker 1: genuinely baffling to me and very thick it's rich. A
Speaker 1: lot of textra dishes out there. I honestly like would
Speaker 1: eat that soup though, Yeah, that is delicious, is the
Speaker 1: thing too, It just like looks like it's already been eaten.
Speaker 1: Y Yeah. Anyway, So Barb and Star are kind of
Speaker 1: down on their look at the moment, and they also
Speaker 1: realized that all the fun times that they used to
Speaker 1: have together were from years before, and they feel that
Speaker 1: they've lost their shimmer. So when their friend tells them
Speaker 1: about a vacation she just took to Vista del Mar, Florida,
Speaker 1: they decide to take a trip together as well. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Sharon Gordon Fisherman gives one of her henchman Edgar played
Speaker 1: by Jamie Dornan uh a microchip which he will need
Speaker 1: to activate the receiver, which is going to attract all
Speaker 1: of the killer mosquitoes, which is confusing and also doesn't
Speaker 1: super matter if you don't fully write process the plot.
Speaker 1: It was very Black Mirror that element, you know. It
Speaker 1: was like kind of like Austin Powers meets Black Mirror.
Speaker 1: I also loved the Jamie Dornan casting, like it was
Speaker 1: such a like watching it again last night, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: it's such a like because I feel like that's happen.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of other examples of like a
Speaker 1: guy who is mostly known for being hot all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, like you're like, oh wait, and he's pretty
Speaker 1: entertaining and he's trying so hard in this movie in
Speaker 1: a way that it like and I mean that is
Speaker 1: like a compliment where if he knew he was funny,
Speaker 1: the performance wouldn't be like as good. I feel like
Speaker 1: he's performing as if he's like is this working, like
Speaker 1: full commitment, Like yeah, yeah. I feel like another example
Speaker 1: of that would be Um. One of the Chris is
Speaker 1: Chris Hemsworth in his role in The Ghostbusters when he's
Speaker 1: like this goofy guy. I vaguely remember that because we
Speaker 1: covered that movie, but I feel like it just it
Speaker 1: just left my body. When that's acceptable hot guy trying
Speaker 1: to be funny. Um, you know, it's hit or miss,
Speaker 1: but sometimes it in. It worked with Jamie Dornan. It
Speaker 1: works because Yeah, the only thing I've ever seen him
Speaker 1: in was like the fifties Shades trilogy, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh Jesus, I refused to watch those movies, but that
Speaker 1: is so funny that he's famous for is like being
Speaker 1: like the hitting guy and then no, he's like this
Speaker 1: like a you know, very gentle character who was obsessed
Speaker 1: with being in an official relationship. Yeah, that was my
Speaker 1: favorite part of the entire movies. It's so funny. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also I just just a quick Jamie dorn in fact,
Speaker 1: because I knew nothing about this man. I also detested
Speaker 1: the Fifty Shades movies and everyone's bad in those movies
Speaker 1: because the movies are bad. Um. But he started as
Speaker 1: a model, which I guess isn't super surprising. But there
Speaker 1: was a time in the early two thousands where he
Speaker 1: was known as the Golden Torso the New York Times.
Speaker 1: So he's it's like, I don't know. I mean, we
Speaker 1: talked about women being objectified a lot, but yeah, he
Speaker 1: The New York Times declared him the Golden Torso okay,
Speaker 1: two thousand one, so you know, shout out to the
Speaker 1: Golden Torso. Good for him. I feel like, by the
Speaker 1: time you give a nickname involving the word torso, there's
Speaker 1: there's just no gray area with are you objectifying this person?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like piece by piece literally right?
Speaker 1: But I love it. I'm thrilled that the Golden torso
Speaker 1: got to like show his skills. This is his time.
Speaker 1: I mean talking about a shimmer like he is shimmering
Speaker 1: all over this movie. Cute accent too, that was my I.
Speaker 1: When I saw his picture, it was like, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to have a celebrity crush on him, But when
Speaker 1: I heard the accent, I was starting to feel more
Speaker 1: flexible on that point. He's Irish in real life, right,
Speaker 1: he is from Northern Ireland. And also I couldn't tell him.
Speaker 1: I was like, is he like trying to do because
Speaker 1: there in some scenes and like is he trying to
Speaker 1: sound American right now? Like his accent is like all
Speaker 1: over the place. But I just don't care. I love it.
Speaker 1: He's the son of a gynecologist. Listen, I read his
Speaker 1: whole Wikipedia page. There are so many things I relate
Speaker 1: too about this guy. Already perfect poor so colleges, former model,
Speaker 1: I had the same life. Yeah, he's an everyman um
Speaker 1: so he has been given this like microchip or whatever
Speaker 1: which he will take to Vista del Mar and activate
Speaker 1: because that's going to attract the killer mosquitoes. And also,
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, Kate Edgar is in love with Sharon
Speaker 1: and all he wants is to be an official couple
Speaker 1: with her, but it's clear that she is stringing him
Speaker 1: along and that she doesn't want to be an official
Speaker 1: couple with him. So then Barbin star fly to Vista
Speaker 1: del Mar. On the flight, they talk about an imaginary
Speaker 1: woman named Trish the whole flight tragically died, who tragically
Speaker 1: died and turned into a water spirit. And I only
Speaker 1: mentioned that now because we've out a Chekhov's Trish happening.
Speaker 1: Um Goddess ex machina right right. And then there's this
Speaker 1: whole thing where they like, they go to the wrong
Speaker 1: hotel and it turns out there staying in a crummy motel.
Speaker 1: But then they managed to get a room in the
Speaker 1: nice hotel after all, and that's where Edgar is staying,
Speaker 1: and they meet him when they're all drinking at the
Speaker 1: hotel bar, and they end up hanging out with him
Speaker 1: all night. They drink a bunch, they take drugs, They
Speaker 1: dance to a techno remix of My Heart Will Go On.
Speaker 1: And as soon as that's where I became convinced that, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like because that's like thirty five minutes in, and
Speaker 1: like I liked, I was like this is a really
Speaker 1: funny movie, like up until that point, but as soon
Speaker 1: as I heard like Doo Doo, Doo doo, I was like,
Speaker 1: this movie is for me. Well, the music that I
Speaker 1: loved in this was they had Richard Cheese in the movie. Yes,
Speaker 1: Richard Cheese is such a kind of classic gen X guy,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it felt like perfect
Speaker 1: to like their age, and you know, it was great.
Speaker 1: I remember like a boy in high school being like
Speaker 1: showing me Richard Cheese because his like uncle had showed
Speaker 1: him and being really blown away like Richard Cheese and
Speaker 1: the Mighty Bush was just like it. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: It was so nice to see him. I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: like gen Z gets Richard Cheese. Now, good for them, Okay.
Speaker 1: So they danced to all this music together and then
Speaker 1: they spend the night together and Edgar leaves the next morning,
Speaker 1: but oh no, he's lost the micro chip which activates
Speaker 1: the mosquito thing or something or something. So Sharon has
Speaker 1: to call this like secret spy man who she knows
Speaker 1: to come in and fix Edgar's mistake. Q Edgar singing
Speaker 1: a song which goes something along the lines of sea
Speaker 1: goes in the sin Can you hear my prayer and
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's the best part of the movie.
Speaker 1: I think it's great. Yeah, there's I don't know if
Speaker 1: this has been mentioned so far, but there are multiple
Speaker 1: musical numbers in this film. It's not a musical, but
Speaker 1: it is music inclusive. Yeah, because there's that big that
Speaker 1: big number when they first got to the hotel and
Speaker 1: then they found out at the motel and the songs,
Speaker 1: and a number is exactly the right sort for it.
Speaker 1: It is a number. It is a number, a show
Speaker 1: stopper fifteen minutes then m rouge, but like like midwestern
Speaker 1: Mulan rouge. It really is like so fun to see,
Speaker 1: like just see what people do if they have enough
Speaker 1: money to do what ever they think is funny, because
Speaker 1: then then just very much feels like what this movie is.
Speaker 1: It's like, Wow, we could actually get a budget to
Speaker 1: do what like the weirdest ship we can think of. Great. Um,
Speaker 1: So Edgar sings his song, which is my favorite part
Speaker 1: of the movie. I listened to it on repeat this morning. Um. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Barb and Star are pretending to have forgotten all about
Speaker 1: Edgar from the night before, but they secretly both went
Speaker 1: to see him again. So first, Barbe sneaks out to
Speaker 1: go talk to him, but then she realizes that her
Speaker 1: and Edgar aren't really meant to be and she values
Speaker 1: her friendship with Star more than a man, so she
Speaker 1: goes back to her in Star's room, but then Star
Speaker 1: goes out to meet up with Edgar has a very similar,
Speaker 1: if not identical, conversation to the one that Barbe and
Speaker 1: Edgar just had, But then he and Star have sex,
Speaker 1: which is a secret a Star keeps from Barbe. I
Speaker 1: do love that, do that? Like Barb is such a
Speaker 1: like champion. She's like, I can't do this, like I
Speaker 1: need to respect my friend, and then Stars like, um,
Speaker 1: we can only fuck twice? Yeah I will, and they like,
Speaker 1: I feel like we skipped over. Did they also fucked
Speaker 1: each other in the three Zone? Because I thought that
Speaker 1: was a brave pie. It's like they had sex together
Speaker 1: in the first night and reference to sex and it
Speaker 1: was I thought that was kind of an interesting aspect
Speaker 1: of that. They portrayed it as kind of a no
Speaker 1: big deal. Oh yeah, yeah, is so yeah that they
Speaker 1: move on immediately, Like if you left two pe, you
Speaker 1: would not know that they sucked each other. It never
Speaker 1: comes up again, really right. Yeah, they're just normalizing having
Speaker 1: three sons with your friends. Meanwhile, Sharon's associate, a spy
Speaker 1: by the name of Darley Bunkle played by Damon Wayne's Jr.
Speaker 1: Contacts Edgar to assist him. I love that. I love
Speaker 1: the scene where they're on the phone scene is my favorite.
Speaker 1: I think his first scene where it's like no, I
Speaker 1: have to go. Oh, he's great. And then back at
Speaker 1: Sharon's lair, she explains her backstory to Yo Yo, which
Speaker 1: is that when she was young, her family moved to
Speaker 1: Vista del Mar, where she was bullied for her pale skin,
Speaker 1: and then after an incident which like utterly humiliated her,
Speaker 1: caused her father to suffer a heart attack and die
Speaker 1: and caused her mother to leave her, and she got
Speaker 1: launched onto a Disney Cruise ship out of a cannon. Uh.
Speaker 1: Sharon vowed to seek revenge on all of the residents
Speaker 1: of Vista del Mar, hence this big revenge plot. As
Speaker 1: a child, she very much it's like full on Wednesday
Speaker 1: Adam's aesthetic. Yeah, yeah, I I have some things to
Speaker 1: say about all of that. I was curious if we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll
Speaker 1: get there. Meanwhile, Star sneaks off to spend more time
Speaker 1: with Edgar, and then while that's happening, Barb is doing
Speaker 1: a bunch of like fun stuff that she and Star
Speaker 1: were supposed to do together. They both feel really bad
Speaker 1: about lying to each other, and then Barbe finds out
Speaker 1: about Star's love affair with Edgar, and Edgar is about
Speaker 1: to like call off the whole Mosquito plan because he's
Speaker 1: falling out of love with Sharon and in love with Star.
Speaker 1: But anyone who's in Kristen Wiggs body, he's right, well,
Speaker 1: I feel like to be fair. That feels like what
Speaker 1: a lot of us do, like, you know, for me,
Speaker 1: it's not christ and Wiggs body, but it's like some
Speaker 1: unkempt man with Beard, you know, just like switch him out.
Speaker 1: He's got a type. He's got a type. But then
Speaker 1: Sharon convinces Edgar that Barb and Star are spies and
Speaker 1: that he needs to kill them. Meanwhile, Barbon Star confront
Speaker 1: each other about lying, but then Edgar comes in and
Speaker 1: ties them up, and then Sharon abducts them. Alligators are
Speaker 1: about to eat them, but they managed to escape with
Speaker 1: the help of their cool lots, which if you're not
Speaker 1: familiar and you haven't seen the movie. First of all,
Speaker 1: go see the movie. But they're these like very flowy
Speaker 1: capri type pants that are like very skirt and shorts
Speaker 1: mixed together. Basically, I didn't know that that's what those
Speaker 1: were called until this movie. They go by many names.
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know. I think I'm gonna buy some.
Speaker 1: I know's I mean, they can truly save your life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as we see in this movie. One of my favorite
Speaker 1: back told test passes of this movie was Kristin Winn
Speaker 1: telling the other Kristen Wig to jump off a cliff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it was a very feminist moment of the film.
Speaker 1: It's incredible. So then they run off to stop the
Speaker 1: mosquito attack, but oh no, Sharon had already triggered the
Speaker 1: receiver to attract all the mosquitoes. So then they fight
Speaker 1: with Sharon in the middle of the ocean. The mosquitoes
Speaker 1: attack Sharon and then Barb and Star are brought safely
Speaker 1: back to land by Trish, the water spirit lady who
Speaker 1: they had brought up on their flight, who is played
Speaker 1: by Reba McIntyre. And then Sharon shows back up with
Speaker 1: like all these mosquito bites, but then she learns the
Speaker 1: power of friendship and she becomes friends with all of
Speaker 1: the residents of Vista del Mar and then Barb and
Speaker 1: Star get their shimmer back and they ride a banana
Speaker 1: boat together and that's the end of the movie. Love it.
Speaker 1: So let's take a quick break and then we will
Speaker 1: come back to discuss and we're back. We're back, Kevin,
Speaker 1: you brought this up during the recap, so I kind
Speaker 1: of just wanted to like touch on it at the top,
Speaker 1: the stuff with Sharon's back story doing because they're so
Speaker 1: I have so many um compliments to shower on this movie,
Speaker 1: so I think let's let's start with the stuff that
Speaker 1: um I guess. Yeah, so for me, And this is
Speaker 1: something that we talked about pretty recently on our divincion. Okay, yes,
Speaker 1: we're going to say on the same page. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: so that was a Matreon episode. But what we brought
Speaker 1: up then and now is the trope of the evil
Speaker 1: albino villain character. And while Sharon Gordon Fisherman doesn't specifically
Speaker 1: have albinism, because she has a made up condition called
Speaker 1: pigment tosh Tadia degenera hysterica white Skinneka, this condition seems
Speaker 1: to have pretty similar characteristics of albinism, and because she
Speaker 1: is the villain of this movie, I feel like we
Speaker 1: could pretty safely like put her in the category of
Speaker 1: this trope, which is obviously very harmful and its depiction
Speaker 1: of people with albinism, portraying them as being villainous, untrustworthy,
Speaker 1: ill intentioned. Yeah, I totally agree with you. It is
Speaker 1: definitely a trope we see all all the time. I
Speaker 1: mean there's I think movies that weaponize this trope to
Speaker 1: varying degrees, and the Da Vinci Code and Barbon Star
Speaker 1: are certainly very different weaponizations of this trope. But it's
Speaker 1: just like kind of stunningly lazy, given how thoughtful so
Speaker 1: many elements of the movie is, and it and it,
Speaker 1: and it just like does end up kind of coming
Speaker 1: off as a lazy, ablest choice that feels like it's
Speaker 1: fifteen years old, even though most of the movie, for
Speaker 1: we felt so modern, and I would be interested in
Speaker 1: hearing what listeners think, particularly listeners with albinism. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: even beyond that, it's also just like the trope of
Speaker 1: like the villain is the person who doesn't look like
Speaker 1: everyone you know, or the villain of somebody with some
Speaker 1: kind of medical condition, you know, it's kind of ablest. Yeah, definitely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's mothered in this particular way. And because she has
Speaker 1: such pale skin, she's got like pale eyes, she has
Speaker 1: an extreme sensitivity to the sun. Yeah, it felt to me,
Speaker 1: even though again they don't identify it as albinism, I
Speaker 1: think it's yeah, definitely coded. Yeah, so I was very
Speaker 1: disappointed to see that in a movie that came out
Speaker 1: this year. You would think that we've you know, we've
Speaker 1: moved past that, but yeah, it turns out no, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, And and it's especially frustrating in a movie
Speaker 1: that like avoid so many tropes that would have been
Speaker 1: very easy in like a movie with this tone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like mothering, your villain is always going to have connotations
Speaker 1: to it, and like, I mean, no one else in
Speaker 1: the movie is is mothered in that way. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: I was. Yeah, I was like put off by that.
Speaker 1: I still really like the movie, but I was like, oh, really,
Speaker 1: come up, Like why so that I didn't love um?
Speaker 1: The other thing that kind of I was like, oh
Speaker 1: really this is in the movie was there's there's a
Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman joke. Yeah, that was I was just like,
Speaker 1: that's what year was this script written? Because yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: just like, did they not get the memo that he
Speaker 1: has a history of like harassing women on movies sets?
Speaker 1: Did did they not? I don't know. So yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: surprised to see that there. I wish it could have
Speaker 1: been any other old actor, you know, like and you
Speaker 1: would have had the same joke. I also felt like
Speaker 1: the I forgot that the child's name yo yo yo yo. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was kind of uh. I don't know that. There
Speaker 1: was definitely aspects of his depiction that felt like they
Speaker 1: were heavily relying on stereotypes along those lines. I felt
Speaker 1: too that like there's a couple of moments in the
Speaker 1: movie where there's there's a music cue that sounds like
Speaker 1: kind of native flute and drumming, yeah, which like the
Speaker 1: Tommy Bahama stuff mostly, And I'm interested to hear what
Speaker 1: our native listeners think about that, but to me, it
Speaker 1: feels like just kind of like a weird and like
Speaker 1: appropriative thing to have in a movie with no native
Speaker 1: people it. Yeah, so just yeah, just like lazy writing too,
Speaker 1: just not Yeah, I think he was supposed to be
Speaker 1: like some kind of shaman, but like of of what
Speaker 1: you know, it's just like the kind of general magical
Speaker 1: shaman guy. You know. It's also I didn't I don't
Speaker 1: know why I didn't realize on my first watch that
Speaker 1: that was literally Andy Garcia. But it's also he's not
Speaker 1: credited as Andy Garcia, is credited to Oh my God.
Speaker 1: So I think maybe that's why. Not to brag or anything,
Speaker 1: but I did recognize him as Andy Garcia. I just
Speaker 1: have an eye for Andy. Um. Yeah, there, and and
Speaker 1: those aspects. I mean that the three things that we
Speaker 1: just touched on, it did feel like the elements because
Speaker 1: this very much feels like an SNL movie to me,
Speaker 1: even though it isn't. And those moments kind of like
Speaker 1: paying the part of your brain that, like most SML
Speaker 1: movies do not hold up for reasons like this of
Speaker 1: like a huge plat point that is extremely homophobic, a
Speaker 1: huge plot point that is extremely racist that you know,
Speaker 1: most of those movies, even for fans of them, like
Speaker 1: they you can't really make much of an argument for
Speaker 1: large aspects of them. And I mean they're they're smaller
Speaker 1: in this movie, but they're definitely still present. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: I mean the movie is also like I mean, like
Speaker 1: all all four main characters are white people too. It's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I get, like, you know, the whole thing
Speaker 1: is that they're from the Midwest and stuff, but yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not like what the whole Midwest is, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the Midwest is like, I mean, not as diverse as
Speaker 1: other areas of the country, but it's not all white people.
Speaker 1: And there were definitely like opportunities for there to be
Speaker 1: more diversity because it's like, I mean, even in Talking Club,
Speaker 1: I think the only person who isn't white is um
Speaker 1: Rose ab Do, who is one of my favorite character actors.
Speaker 1: Have been watching her since she was on Gilmore Girls. Okay, y, yeah,
Speaker 1: there aren't that many characters of color, and the ones
Speaker 1: who are present in the story are relegated to more
Speaker 1: like secondary or tertiary characters. So I was also honestly surprised.
Speaker 1: I guess we're just going to get all our agreements
Speaker 1: out at the top. I was, honestly, this isn't even
Speaker 1: really a criticism. I was just surprised that this movie
Speaker 1: was directed by a guy. I like, it's such a
Speaker 1: movie centered on middle aged women that I was like
Speaker 1: that I just I didn't even realize, like realize until
Speaker 1: later on. I was like, oh, this is directed by
Speaker 1: a guy named Josh. Just would not have expected that
Speaker 1: in this case. Yeah, I mean directed by a guy.
Speaker 1: That's one thing, a guy named Josh. That's even an
Speaker 1: escalation right there, you know that, that's twisting the knife. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Written though by Kristen Wig and Annie Mamlow, and the
Speaker 1: movie also has a number of producers who are women,
Speaker 1: including Jessica Elbaum, who founded Gloria Sanchez Productions, which is
Speaker 1: a production company that focuses on producing female driven comedy projects.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they also did book Smart Hustlers. Those are
Speaker 1: the good ones. Yeah right, yeah, so um, but I
Speaker 1: was similarly surprised that a man would have been hired
Speaker 1: to direct this movie. So, you know, let's talk about
Speaker 1: the fun parts. Yeah, let's do it. I love that
Speaker 1: this is a movie about friendship between women. I love
Speaker 1: this is that this is a movie about women in there,
Speaker 1: like mid forties finding their shimmer because they feel like
Speaker 1: they're kind of just fading away and they want to
Speaker 1: rediscover themselves and like reignite their excitement for life. This
Speaker 1: is like a version of Eat, Pray Love that I enjoy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not it's not so self serious. Obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: this is a pretty small thing. But one of my
Speaker 1: favorite parts of this movie was the relationships self help
Speaker 1: books that the characters are reading, the Sharon's reading one
Speaker 1: and Edgar's reading one. And I think that the one
Speaker 1: that Edgar's reading is called something like how to feel
Speaker 1: like someone loves you even when they don't show it
Speaker 1: most of the time, and that Sharon's book is like
Speaker 1: how to convince someone you love them to get them
Speaker 1: to do what you want. And I just, I don't know,
Speaker 1: that's very it's really small, but I think that that
Speaker 1: was like a funny takedown of that the whole self
Speaker 1: help industry, which is often you know, market into women
Speaker 1: in like a pretty sex ist way a lot of
Speaker 1: the time, you know, like versions of like hears how
Speaker 1: to be you know, more appealing to man or accommodate
Speaker 1: man or something in some way, And so I definitely
Speaker 1: thought it was funny that they got a dig in
Speaker 1: at that. Yeah. Yeah. Similarly, I liked that there was
Speaker 1: kind of like a role reversal in terms of you
Speaker 1: see this man pining after the love and affection of
Speaker 1: this like evil mastermind woman. I feel like that's not
Speaker 1: something you see that much in terms of like especially
Speaker 1: like a hot former model, former Golden torso Jamie dorn Is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's unapologetically sentimental. Ongoing way, we're referring to his relationship
Speaker 1: aspirations as being an official couple, an official couple like
Speaker 1: a fifteen year old. Yeah, but it's the kind of
Speaker 1: thing that like, you know, like women openly expressing a
Speaker 1: design are for you know, like commitment or sense of
Speaker 1: mentality is often portrayed. It's like, you know, there's, oh,
Speaker 1: there's something wrong with her, you know. And I thought
Speaker 1: that it was Yes, I agree that it was very
Speaker 1: fun role reversal in this movie. Yeah, especially because he
Speaker 1: does he still respects her boundaries. He's always like, are
Speaker 1: you ready to maybe become an official couple yet, Like
Speaker 1: he's not like wearing her down or like hounding her
Speaker 1: or like just like being really obsessive. But I mean
Speaker 1: he's kind of obsessive, but he's not like he's still
Speaker 1: like doing this kind of from a distance. Yeah, he's anxious,
Speaker 1: but he's not creepy, you know. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I liked that those are the aspects of Sharon's character
Speaker 1: that I really liked was like how I mean, it's
Speaker 1: like no one should be emotionally manipulative in a relationship,
Speaker 1: but it was a fun reversal to see, like and
Speaker 1: like you're saying Kate with with the self help books,
Speaker 1: and also just like in general, there are even though
Speaker 1: one of even though Star does end up in a
Speaker 1: relationship with Edgar, I felt like, especially for a movie
Speaker 1: about middle aged women who are they're not mothers. They're
Speaker 1: like not the type of middle aged female character that
Speaker 1: you're kind of used to seeing, especially leading a movie.
Speaker 1: And they don't make any of the easy, like lazy
Speaker 1: choices that you would make with a character like that.
Speaker 1: They're not like pining for a husband, They're not like
Speaker 1: where are my children? Like it's just such a simple
Speaker 1: premise of like, well, I am middle aged and I
Speaker 1: want to figure myself out, and like I I feel
Speaker 1: like I've lost touch with myself. And they're also they
Speaker 1: seem generally more concerned about how other women view them
Speaker 1: than really anyone else. They're worried about each other, they're
Speaker 1: worried about how the talking club perceives them, and it
Speaker 1: was just like a cool so I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: like you never see that. Yeah, And I just to
Speaker 1: kind of piggyback off that, Like, I thought it was
Speaker 1: cool that they were both on journeys of self actualization.
Speaker 1: And then you see, you know, Barbe's character, her journey
Speaker 1: of self actualization is solo, it's involving like a lot
Speaker 1: of adventures, and stars journey is like a relationship journey.
Speaker 1: She's opening her heart to love and experiencing that vulnerability again.
Speaker 1: And I felt like the film did not make any
Speaker 1: sort of value judgment about which of those is better,
Speaker 1: you know, and like that's good because I often feel
Speaker 1: like even feminism asked us to kind of you know,
Speaker 1: like either it's like independence it's good, or you know,
Speaker 1: a relationship is good, or you know, like and it's
Speaker 1: just it's like often presented as very like feminist versus
Speaker 1: not feminist, and in reality, most of us have both desires,
Speaker 1: you know, not everyone. But um, yeah, it was just
Speaker 1: it was just cool to see the film kind of
Speaker 1: not like Barbe's journey. It's not a joke, it's not pathetic.
Speaker 1: You know. Uh, Star's journey is not weak. I just
Speaker 1: really liked that. Yeah. Yeah, and an element of Star's Journey.
Speaker 1: I mean it's only mentioned in kind of one scene,
Speaker 1: but I like when I was watching it to prepare
Speaker 1: for for this episode, I especially appreciated it was like
Speaker 1: Star also talked about like her body image and like
Speaker 1: how she as she was getting older, she was feeling unlovable.
Speaker 1: She felt like she was never going to be loved again.
Speaker 1: And then she says like the line is super goofy,
Speaker 1: but it was like it's where she's like, you saw
Speaker 1: my like folds and whole, you weren't bothered by any
Speaker 1: run away, and it's like it's a it's I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's my favorite kind of joke because it's funny, but
Speaker 1: it's not at her expense, and the response to it
Speaker 1: is not cruel. And he's just like, yeah, like Edgar
Speaker 1: is such a good active listener. Um, and I like that, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like harped on, but it is
Speaker 1: like referee instant away that felt like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: like genuine and funny. I liked it. Let's take another
Speaker 1: quick break and then we'll come right back and we're back. Um.
Speaker 1: You mentioned this in the in the recap Kate, but
Speaker 1: the fact that they like they have that like steamy
Speaker 1: threesome together the first night that they meet Edgar, and
Speaker 1: it's clear that, like you know, the Barb and Star,
Speaker 1: we're doing sex things to each other, and that they
Speaker 1: do not make a deal of it at all in
Speaker 1: the aftermath, which like again is like that would have
Speaker 1: been like an easy slash lazy choice that a lot
Speaker 1: of comedies have done. So I'm so glad that they
Speaker 1: did not do that in this movie. I'm thinking particularly
Speaker 1: of a scene in the movie Transplanes and Automobiles where
Speaker 1: Steve Martin and John Candy they have to sleep in
Speaker 1: the same bed and they wake up like spooning each other,
Speaker 1: and as soon as they realize that they are like
Speaker 1: embracing each other, they both dash out of bed and
Speaker 1: like are like, oh my god, gross. They didn't they
Speaker 1: didn't even have sex the way that like Bartman Start did,
Speaker 1: but they just made physical counts. They just like touched
Speaker 1: each other and then yeah, and then but they're like
Speaker 1: flipping out that they even like we're hugging like holding
Speaker 1: each other. Yea. So yeah, I really liked that they
Speaker 1: just very normalized like a couple of friends like getting
Speaker 1: freaky on vacation with each other. Yeah, and they don't
Speaker 1: like it's not a deal, but they don't not talk
Speaker 1: about it, Like they referenced the specific things they did
Speaker 1: together in bed and you know and fun, and just
Speaker 1: like they were talking about it the same way that
Speaker 1: they talk about their their other vacation adventures, you know,
Speaker 1: nothing weird. Yeah, yeah, they acknowledged it happened, but like
Speaker 1: they're like, this isn't anything where like grossed out by,
Speaker 1: are ashamed of so yeah, they just they're just like
Speaker 1: and now we change the subject to seashells or whatever.
Speaker 1: Turtles turtles. Yeah. And I like how the way that
Speaker 1: they deal with conflict too felt really good because that's
Speaker 1: like another area where I feel like you could get
Speaker 1: you know, like a lesser writing team could get super
Speaker 1: lazy with how women are in conflict are so often
Speaker 1: written in these kind of like broad tropes. But I
Speaker 1: liked it. I mean, I thought, like, you know it,
Speaker 1: they are on these solo journeys, and I feel like
Speaker 1: that I didn't even really register this the first time
Speaker 1: I watched it, but it's like, oh, that is a
Speaker 1: part of their journey, is like having to be less
Speaker 1: reliant on each other and like growing as individuals and
Speaker 1: not being so you know, codependent in some ways, but
Speaker 1: also still having that friendship. And when they find out
Speaker 1: they've been lying to each other, I love that they
Speaker 1: can't lie like that being established at the beginning is
Speaker 1: so funny at talking club. Um, but you know it's
Speaker 1: like that they're obviously piste off at each other, but
Speaker 1: then they have these like two beautiful forgiveness scenes after
Speaker 1: the cool lots and again when they think that they're
Speaker 1: going to die right before Trish rescues them. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: so cute, and you know, I mean it's also like, um,
Speaker 1: they have there and this I think this is what
Speaker 1: you're also saying, Jamie. Like they have their fight, they
Speaker 1: do express like the full range of their anger and
Speaker 1: their sense of betrayal. But it's not it's not in
Speaker 1: like this cat fight way. You know. It's like how
Speaker 1: real human beings engaged in serious conflicts when there's a
Speaker 1: portrayal of trust, right, which is cool because it happens
Speaker 1: in between all this like ridiculous ship where like the alligators.
Speaker 1: The alligators. I love the scene where right right before
Speaker 1: their fight, like they're tied together and they're like slowly
Speaker 1: escaping and Jamie Dornan just like doesn't notice because he's
Speaker 1: talking about himself, and yeah, that's so funny. It's so good. Well,
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that I absolutely love about
Speaker 1: this movie, which is you get this like extremely goofy
Speaker 1: movie where I know, it's not just a goofy movie,
Speaker 1: it's an extremely goofy movie where women are the leads.
Speaker 1: Because like a lot of comedy movies where a woman
Speaker 1: is the lead or where women are the lead characters,
Speaker 1: they are often rom coms, and a lot of rom
Speaker 1: coms are not actually very funny. There I said it, Like,
Speaker 1: this movie actually has jokes, and it's like a rare
Speaker 1: example of an absurdist comedy that is female driven, because
Speaker 1: most absurdist comedy, which I think is like my favorite
Speaker 1: subgenre of comedy, Like I love absurdism, they're so male dominated.
Speaker 1: Not a lot of room has been made for women
Speaker 1: in this sub genre, at least like not much in
Speaker 1: like in the mainstream. So I love that this is
Speaker 1: just like it's so silly. You get to see women
Speaker 1: being very goo fee. A lot of very goofy silly
Speaker 1: things happen in the movie, and I was just eating
Speaker 1: it up. Yeah, I agree that another another thing that
Speaker 1: I liked about I don't know, the Barb, Star and
Speaker 1: Edgar triangle, like the their dynamics. I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: there's like so much interesting stuff there because it's like
Speaker 1: it just other things that could have happened but then didn't.
Speaker 1: It's like we've talked about this before, but like Edgar
Speaker 1: is never creepy. He's usually just listening and is maybe
Speaker 1: just like not the smartest person in the world, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't always pick up on other people's signals. And
Speaker 1: on top of that, like in that sequence where like
Speaker 1: Barb and Star basically go on the same sort of
Speaker 1: date with Edgar that they both like I don't know,
Speaker 1: like they just pursue him extremely directly, like without a
Speaker 1: hint of like insecurity or like they just show up
Speaker 1: like doing the splits, like let's hang out doing like
Speaker 1: yoga poses outside his door. I loved that, Like it's
Speaker 1: just so funny. I really. I mean, first of all,
Speaker 1: I love that he's like nine or ten years younger
Speaker 1: than them, like Jamie Dornan is than Annie Mamlo and
Speaker 1: Kristen Wiggs. So again, you we talk about the age
Speaker 1: gap in Hollywood a lot where there's again just a
Speaker 1: tendency to have aging men and they're like female co
Speaker 1: stars will be like twenty five years younger than them,
Speaker 1: and it's rare to see like an older woman and
Speaker 1: a younger man. So I appreciated that you have that
Speaker 1: just representation on screen. And they don't mention it either.
Speaker 1: They're not like, whoa cougar? You know? Right? Yeah? Right, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just normalized. And then I really like when when
Speaker 1: Barb is talking to Edgar on their like little walk
Speaker 1: about around Vista del Mar and she's like, oh, you
Speaker 1: know what, actually, you've set me free, like our night together,
Speaker 1: Like that set me free. But that's all this was.
Speaker 1: She like realizes that she just needed like this sex
Speaker 1: romp to like be the catalyst that gets her to
Speaker 1: realize that she like can go off and do fun stuff,
Speaker 1: but that she's not like pining after him, maybe the
Speaker 1: same way that like Kristin Weig is more interested in
Speaker 1: him romantically. But I like that Dong touched her heart
Speaker 1: right exactly does that does happen? Um? So I like
Speaker 1: that even though they're like connection between the three of
Speaker 1: them initiates in this sexual encounter for all of them
Speaker 1: all at the same time. In this threesome, but that like,
Speaker 1: there isn't like a love triangle after that, you know,
Speaker 1: even though it does seem like they will continue to
Speaker 1: all three of them will be living together back in
Speaker 1: Soft Rock, Nebraska, which I love. Like that would honestly
Speaker 1: be the dream life. Like if I got to live
Speaker 1: with like a partner and my best friend was also there,
Speaker 1: wouldn't that be great? Yeah? I hope they don't change
Speaker 1: the layout of their house at all, and just Jamie
Speaker 1: Dornants in Stars then but they still all share a room. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yes, he joins the Talking Club. Oh
Speaker 1: he would. I feel like he'd be a hit there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very something. I mean, the Golden Torso those ladies
Speaker 1: are going to gobble him up. He would let Phyllis
Speaker 1: talk about horses. God, those cutaways, they're great. Just like
Speaker 1: another thing that just made me laugh, The story of
Speaker 1: how Barbe's husband thought is so funny where he's like
Speaker 1: a Rhodeo star but he got trampled but it was
Speaker 1: at a like a Black Friday sale. It's so good.
Speaker 1: There's so many And like you said, Jamie, every time
Speaker 1: you watch this movie, you like pick up on like
Speaker 1: subtle jokes that you didn't notice the first time. It's
Speaker 1: just this movie is so funny. Yeah, I'm so glad
Speaker 1: to dig this, and I hope that I hope that
Speaker 1: it's like been successful enough that there will be, you know,
Speaker 1: other opportunities like this made for um, for other women
Speaker 1: and hopefully not a white women, you know, like and
Speaker 1: and sort of open the open the floodgates to movies
Speaker 1: like this because it is I mean, I guess that
Speaker 1: I can't say for sure whether it's like Bridesmaids is
Speaker 1: like v movie that Kristen Wig and any Mamola wanted
Speaker 1: to make, but I do feel like there is this
Speaker 1: kind of tendency where it just takes women, even after
Speaker 1: they've been very successful, like way longer to be able
Speaker 1: to make like this is the thing I've always wanted
Speaker 1: to do if I could make anything, because Christen Wigg
Speaker 1: has been you know, she's been around for at least
Speaker 1: fifteen years, extremely successful, and it's like just this year
Speaker 1: that you see like her like ridiculous absurd art project
Speaker 1: come out, and I feel like, you know, that tends
Speaker 1: to come much earlier for men. And yeah, just like
Speaker 1: it would be cool if if women and you know,
Speaker 1: all people who weren't young white guys got that got
Speaker 1: those same level of opportunities at the same pace, which
Speaker 1: is not true, you know. Yeah, yeah, I also think
Speaker 1: that I don't know if I recall correctly, but I
Speaker 1: feel like Kristen Wigg is from kind of like a
Speaker 1: normal background and was not a super rich person. I
Speaker 1: don't know. That could be wrong, but yeah, I know
Speaker 1: that that is true. It feels like the people who
Speaker 1: are like sons and daughters of Hollywood are able to
Speaker 1: get those opportunities at an accelerated pace. Yeah. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that they're like Annie Mamma and Kristen Wigg are
Speaker 1: both from like pretty like standard middle class backgrounds um
Speaker 1: back when the middle class was the thing. And yeah,
Speaker 1: and they and they both became successful in their thirties
Speaker 1: and like just all, I mean that their career trajectories
Speaker 1: are really cool. And I just I just from a
Speaker 1: sentimental point of like, that's so cool that like when
Speaker 1: best friends make a movie, I love it. It's very fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also learned that Christen Maig had twins last year.
Speaker 1: Holy shit, that's amazing via a surrogate. She and her
Speaker 1: husband had twins. She's got tiny babies at her house.
Speaker 1: I just learned so much on scholarly Journal Wikipedia this week. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of Yeah, I don't really
Speaker 1: have much else. I would just say, you know, watch
Speaker 1: the movie. There's some things in it that field dated, uh,
Speaker 1: that I was disappointed to see. But for the most part,
Speaker 1: this is a romp. This is a very funny movie.
Speaker 1: The themes and in the kind of takeaways from it
Speaker 1: are again just like things that we don't get to
Speaker 1: see that much of. And I hope, yeah, that this
Speaker 1: movie kind of helps pave the way for more movies
Speaker 1: like it's to be made and again, yeah, just open
Speaker 1: up doors for just more diverse and inclusive movies. Again,
Speaker 1: like specifically absurdist comedies. Let's see more like women driven
Speaker 1: absurdist comedies, women from all backgrounds, people of marginalized genders
Speaker 1: from all backgrounds. We need more of it. Agree with
Speaker 1: actual budgets too, because you can tell this movie had
Speaker 1: like a budget ridiculous the production design with all of
Speaker 1: like the very like saturated colors and yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: I was looking at the poster and I was like,
Speaker 1: this was like reminiscent of like a Lisa Frank I
Speaker 1: used to have like yeah, yeah, but yeah, I didn't
Speaker 1: really have any anything else. No, I yeah, I UM,
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed this movie. I agreed that it There
Speaker 1: are the elements of it that are dated are super
Speaker 1: frustrating because it seems at so many places to have
Speaker 1: conscientiously avoided dated tropes, and so there are moments where
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, these are you know, gen X white
Speaker 1: women who maybe should have consulted some people. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's true because it was very highlighted because they did
Speaker 1: handel like, there was so much about it that felt
Speaker 1: so original and fresh. You know that the parts of
Speaker 1: it that were dated or you can just clich you
Speaker 1: didn't really stand out like a sore thumb. But I
Speaker 1: still love this movie. Yeah. Yeah, it passes the backtal
Speaker 1: test obviously, Like except for when they're talking about Edgar.
Speaker 1: Basically the entire time they're talking about all sorts of
Speaker 1: wild ship Trish, they have a whole turtles Turtles of
Speaker 1: turtles were led to believe that they spend I'm guessing
Speaker 1: what would be like as four to five hour flight
Speaker 1: talking about a woman named Trish that they made up.
Speaker 1: The entire time they're talking about seashells and their friendship
Speaker 1: bracelets and just every doesn't pass the Bechtel test. But
Speaker 1: one of my favorite exchanges was about Kermit's little frog legs. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: does Kermit count as as a guy? I think so,
Speaker 1: don't identify as a as a let me check. I
Speaker 1: don't know if a non human mail is a good question.
Speaker 1: I didn't remember to pay super close attention to this,
Speaker 1: but I feel like the movie does not pass the
Speaker 1: reverse Spechtel test in that men I think don't talk
Speaker 1: to each other really at all in this movie. Edgar
Speaker 1: and Darley Bunkle, do you talk to each other? Oh? Right,
Speaker 1: retort right, yes, but just a little bit. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: bulk of the conversations in this movie are between women.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely yeah, And just shout out to Darley Bunkle
Speaker 1: and Edgar's fight in the same break. Um, Yeah, this
Speaker 1: movie is so fun and I hope that, yeah, it'll
Speaker 1: it'll make my form work. So let's let's get to
Speaker 1: the nipple ratings, shall we? Yes? Zero to five nipples
Speaker 1: Based on how the movie fares from an intersectional feminist lens,
Speaker 1: I'm going to definitely knock off some points for the
Speaker 1: really unnecessary harmful mothering of the villain, especially because again,
Speaker 1: there's such a long history of ascribing a disability or
Speaker 1: medical condition or mental illness to villains in media as
Speaker 1: a way to other them and to further villainize them,
Speaker 1: which in turn demonizes and stigmatizes disabilities and conditions and
Speaker 1: mental illnesses, which is obviously very harmful and there's no
Speaker 1: need and no excuse for that type of characterization. I
Speaker 1: was disappointed to see that in this movie. Um, this
Speaker 1: movie is way too white. Aside from those things, there
Speaker 1: is a lot about this movie that I really like,
Speaker 1: because so much of the movie is about celebrating female
Speaker 1: friendship and normalizing like women being alive in their forties
Speaker 1: and that being okay, which most movies do not deem
Speaker 1: to be okay. And yeah, but they like rediscover themselves
Speaker 1: and their friendship is just strong, even stronger at the
Speaker 1: end of the movie. All those things like that, I'll
Speaker 1: give it. I think I'm okay with giving four nipples
Speaker 1: for four out of five. That might be way too high,
Speaker 1: but I do love this movie. And also I fumble
Speaker 1: the nipple rating every week, so um, I'll give one
Speaker 1: to Barb, but one to Star. I'll give one to
Speaker 1: Darley Bunkle and then my final nipple I'll give to
Speaker 1: Jamie Dornan's song about seagulls in the sand. Can you
Speaker 1: hear my prayer? I'll go. I guess I'll go like
Speaker 1: four three point seven five. Ultimately the metrics meaningless. But
Speaker 1: but but yeah, I I I'll kind of echo what
Speaker 1: you said that they're making an ablest choice in your
Speaker 1: villain is just I don't know, like really stood out
Speaker 1: in a movie that you know, as we we said,
Speaker 1: tries to avoid those kinds of choices. Also, it is
Speaker 1: like a very white movie and didn't need to be. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but but but I do love this movie. It's so funny,
Speaker 1: it's so well written, and I love that it's like
Speaker 1: celebrating like long term female friendship and you know, doesn't
Speaker 1: make them fixated on marriage or fixated on it's or
Speaker 1: like it's just about them and like finding themselves and
Speaker 1: whether through relationship or whether it's through um, you know,
Speaker 1: like meeting Andy Garcia whatever that means to you. Um,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I'll go, I guess I'll go for it,
Speaker 1: and i'll um, I guess I'll just I'll just do
Speaker 1: two to Barb two to start, keep it simple. Nice?
Speaker 1: What about you, Kate? Well, I think can I do
Speaker 1: point fives or you can do any increments? Yeah, okay, cool,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give it. I'm gonna give it three point five.
Speaker 1: And if you asked me to read this on the
Speaker 1: fund scale, I would say five out of five. But
Speaker 1: you know, through an intersectional feminist lens, this is a
Speaker 1: movie about white people having a very affluent experience, even
Speaker 1: if they're kind of last, and it does I think
Speaker 1: you know, rely on racist and ablest tropes to tell
Speaker 1: certain aspects of the story. So I don't know. I
Speaker 1: would say intersectional feminism three point five, but it is
Speaker 1: a really fun movie. Still fair, very fair, Well, Kate,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us in this discussion.
Speaker 1: It's been a delight. Oh, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: having me. Sorry. If you can hear my little cat
Speaker 1: in the microphone door, he is really mad that I
Speaker 1: locked him out. Well, you'll be able to return to
Speaker 1: him so soon. But first tell us where people can
Speaker 1: check out your stuff, follow you on social media, all
Speaker 1: that good stuff. So on Twitter. I am at Kate,
Speaker 1: will it and will it has two hours and two teas,
Speaker 1: And I am Kate dot will it same spelling on Instagram.
Speaker 1: I have a new audiobook out called The Dirt Egg
Speaker 1: Anthropology that is an exploration of masculinity from my perspective,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, a feminist comedian, and it's kind
Speaker 1: of like part mem where our part podcast, part like
Speaker 1: you know, research, and it's just like it was a
Speaker 1: really really really fun project to make. It's just available
Speaker 1: on Audible Plus. And then I also have a podcast
Speaker 1: called Reply Guys with Julia Claire and it's a leftist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a leftist feminist comedy podcast. So you know, we
Speaker 1: we are talking about stuff through uh an interstectional feminist lens,
Speaker 1: but it's more like news and politics and stuff. So
Speaker 1: please check it out please, and you can follow us
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram. At Bechtel Cast, we've got our
Speaker 1: Matreon to subscribe to. It's five dollars a month. It
Speaker 1: gets you access to two bonus episodes every month, plus
Speaker 1: the whole back catalog, and it can be found at
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash Pectel Cast. And you can get
Speaker 1: our merch at public dot com slash the Bechdel Cast
Speaker 1: for all your merchandise related needs. And with that, let's
Speaker 1: get another buried treasure. Yum yum. Was that ecstasy? Do
Speaker 1: you think that was ecstasy? Yeah, it's gotta be yeah,
Speaker 1: probably yeah, all right, bye bye bye