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Speaker 1: Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebina, a space where no

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Speaker 1: question is off limits and storylines become lifelines. The views

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Speaker 1: shared by our guests are meant to inform, entertain, and empower.

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Speaker 1: From the laughs to the lessons, Just remember tough times

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Speaker 1: don't last, but professional home girls do enjoy the show.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Pretty Private, exchegarra Ebine here and I

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Speaker 2: hope all is cute. Now, before we get into this

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Speaker 2: week's episode, I just want to thank you all for

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Speaker 2: the love on the season premiere. So many of you

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Speaker 2: have reached out about the solo episode and also the

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Speaker 2: rebrand okay, and it truly truly means the world to me,

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Speaker 2: So thank you, thank you, Thank you. Also, a lot

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Speaker 2: of y'all connected with the combo around burnout and as

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Speaker 2: you know, being a creative and stepping into entrepreneurship can

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Speaker 2: feel like a lot. As y'all always know, I always

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Speaker 2: say I feel like I'm working like a two dollar hope.

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Speaker 3: And we all know it is not always glamorous.

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Speaker 2: So I really wanted to provide you with, you know,

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Speaker 2: just real talk, you know, So thank you all for

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Speaker 2: seeing me, hearing me, listening to the show, sharing it

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Speaker 2: with your friends, and you.

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Speaker 3: Know, rocking with me as we pivot.

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Speaker 2: Also, if you're new here, you know, hey girl, hey,

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Speaker 2: make sure you subscribe to the show, leave a five

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Speaker 2: star review, hold me down, do not hold me up,

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Speaker 2: and also share the podcast with someone if you feel

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Speaker 2: like it will resonate with them. I can I tell

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Speaker 2: you how many emails dms I receive on a regular

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Speaker 2: basis on people telling me how this show has saved

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Speaker 2: their lives. So please, please please make sure you support.

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Speaker 3: Now let's get into it.

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Speaker 2: So this episode is a part of the Pretty Open series.

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Speaker 2: That's when my guests come on the show and they

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Speaker 2: are not anonymous. And I am joined by Madison McGee.

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Speaker 3: Y'all.

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Speaker 2: She is so cool, super smart. She is a journalist,

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Speaker 2: podcast host, and all the creator of Ice Cold Case,

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Speaker 2: a podcast.

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Speaker 3: She launched to solve her own father's murder.

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Speaker 2: Okay, when I tell you Madison's podcast, but have you

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Speaker 2: binged listening to every single episode? Like I think I

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Speaker 2: listen to her entire podcast when a day, y'all, Like,

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Speaker 2: I'm being so serious to be honest with you, I

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Speaker 2: was just so fascinated by how she produced it and

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Speaker 2: how she's using this medium to actively investigate and seek

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Speaker 2: justice for her father. So in part one of our conversations,

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Speaker 2: you know, Madison opens up about what it's like to

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Speaker 2: share her family story so publicly, and especially when some

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Speaker 2: of the main suspects are within her family, which is crazy.

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Speaker 3: We also talk.

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Speaker 2: About the emotional weight of just uncovering painful secrets, the

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Speaker 2: strain it put on her mental health which you all

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Speaker 2: can only imagine, and also just the financial sacrifices she made,

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Speaker 2: including going into debt just to bring this story to

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Speaker 2: life and fight for justice.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: We also get into the behind the scenes reality a

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Speaker 2: podcast in which I tell y'all podcast and what have

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Speaker 2: you feeling like you are trying to find a cure

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Speaker 2: for a disease.

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Speaker 3: On the name of Okay.

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Speaker 2: Podcasting requires our time, energy, and heart to make sure

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Speaker 2: to produce a show that's like hers. So from researching

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Speaker 2: and writing to editing and promoting, podcasting is no small feat,

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Speaker 2: especially when the story is as personal as Madison. So

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Speaker 2: it is a labor of love and the Madison Case

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Speaker 2: a mission with real world stakes. So Madison reflects on

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Speaker 2: what it's like to navigate the true crime space as

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Speaker 2: both a creator and someone emotionally tied to the case.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's a constant balancing act between storytelling and sensitivity,

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Speaker 2: between seeking answers while also protecting your piece. So there

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Speaker 2: are so many unique challenges and heavy responsibilities that come

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Speaker 2: with this, and Madison doesn't shy away from it at all. So, y'all,

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Speaker 2: I cannot wait for you all to listen to part one.

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Speaker 2: So get ready, I'm solving my father's murder.

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Speaker 3: Starts now, all right, So to my guests, thank you

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Speaker 3: so much for being on a show. How you doing,

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Speaker 3: how you feeling.

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Speaker 4: I'm good, I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having

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Speaker 4: me me too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we've been kicky in because it's so disclaimer. I

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Speaker 2: really don't listen to a lot of podcasts because I

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Speaker 2: podcast so much. I don't know if you feel the

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Speaker 2: same way. Yeah, but it's right because it's like I'm

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Speaker 2: always hearing somebody in my head. But y'all, when I

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Speaker 2: tell you about our guest Madison McGee, when I was

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Speaker 2: listening to her story her podcast Ice Cold Case, I

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Speaker 2: have never listened to anything that had.

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Speaker 3: Me like, wow, like, what the fuck is going? How

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Speaker 3: many times you get that reaction?

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Speaker 5: Every time?

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Speaker 4: It's I have that reaction myself and then friends, family, listeners.

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Speaker 4: It's always like, I mean, I'll have people come up

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Speaker 4: to me that I'm friends with and they're like, so

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Speaker 4: catch me up because I'm listening, and I'm like, what

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Speaker 4: is going on? And so, yeah, it's funny. People from

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Speaker 4: all corners of my world are like, what the.

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Speaker 3: Fuck right now?

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Speaker 2: Did you ever imagine your story grow the way it

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Speaker 2: has and resonate with so many people?

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Speaker 5: Oh my god. Never. Never.

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Speaker 4: I didn't understand really the gravity of everything.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 4: I don't even know if I still do, but I

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Speaker 4: definitely couldn't have anticipated in the beginning sort of everything

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Speaker 4: that would transpire as a result of the show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's so funny because when I was

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Speaker 2: listening to your show and like obviously we're a podcast

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Speaker 2: or so like I'm listening to like the background, the details,

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Speaker 2: and I can hear you like you're breathing changing, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, like I can only imagine

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Speaker 2: how mentally exhausting this must have been.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm so it's funny. I don't think about

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Speaker 4: it too much anymore because it's sort of just become

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Speaker 4: a part of my day to day. But I am

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Speaker 4: so much more tired.

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Speaker 5: Than I used to be.

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Speaker 4: And my friend joke because they're like, I'm about to

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Speaker 4: be thirty this summer, and they're like, oh, you're just

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Speaker 4: getting old, that's why you're tired. And I'm like, no,

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Speaker 4: Like I take a nap every day at three o'clock.

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Speaker 4: Every I took a nap before this. I just every

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Speaker 4: day at three o'clock.

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Speaker 5: I am tired all the time.

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Speaker 4: My friend the other day was like, Madison, You're my

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Speaker 4: sleepiest friend, Like you're always so tired.

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Speaker 5: And I really truly.

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Speaker 4: Think it's because of all of this, and like the

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Speaker 4: work that I'm doing is so exhausting, like mentally that

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Speaker 4: like I'm just exhausted all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you're an investigator. And also I don't

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Speaker 2: think people understand when it comes to podcast and like

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Speaker 2: podcasts and there's a lot of work.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's an easier lift compared to television and film. Right,

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Speaker 4: it's a harder lift because normally when you're doing a podcast,

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Speaker 4: you're doing it by yourself, so they kind of like

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Speaker 4: trap you into it by being like, well, look how

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Speaker 4: much easier it is just to Mike and a little

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Speaker 4: bored and you hit record and like, isn't that so

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Speaker 4: much easier than like making a movie. You're starting a

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Speaker 4: YouTube channel or whatever, and you're like, that seems like okay,

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Speaker 4: that seems a lot easier, and then you start doing

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Speaker 4: it and you're like, oh, but I have.

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Speaker 5: To do everything. I have to edit, I have to

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Speaker 5: post it.

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Speaker 2: I take notes, interview it, you recappin oh much stuff.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's where they kind of like bait

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Speaker 4: and switch you into thinking it's easier, because in theory,

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Speaker 4: if you had the same resources as the television show,

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Speaker 4: yeah it would be. But you don't, and that's normally

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Speaker 4: why you podcast, and so that it's a lot of work.

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Speaker 4: It's it's a full time job. It's you're doing a

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Speaker 4: ton of different roles. You're you're shifting into different responsibilities

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Speaker 4: all the time and trying to kind of compartmentalize everything

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Speaker 4: in your brain.

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Speaker 5: Right, so much, it's so much.

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Speaker 2: And even when I was listening to one of the

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Speaker 2: episodes when you had a conversation with Daryl and you

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, I wish I would to die, wish

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Speaker 2: that way I did that, And I'm like, you'd be

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Speaker 2: so caught up in a moment that it's kind of

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Speaker 2: hard for you to even like remember or just keep

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Speaker 2: track of everything because you're literally living in the moment.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean, and then I was like, I'm

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Speaker 4: obviously in fear of my safety at this time. I'm

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Speaker 4: my security guard, I'm the interviewer, I'm the producer, I'm

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Speaker 4: thinking about what the show is going to end up

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Speaker 4: being with this interview, I'm like thinking a hundred things

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Speaker 4: all at the same time. And then you leave and

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Speaker 4: you're like, I wish I had had something else. But

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Speaker 4: in a real world, in a bigger production, a higher

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Speaker 4: budget thing, there would have been a producer like taking

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Speaker 4: notes the entire time, going Okay, we really wish that

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Speaker 4: we would have this. Hey Maddison, ask this, and like

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Speaker 4: you have all of that, but you don't have that,

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Speaker 4: So you're just kind of in the moment trying to

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Speaker 4: think of all this stuff.

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Speaker 5: I had a little bit of prep.

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Speaker 4: I had some questions I wanted to ask, But yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean, once you're in that moment, everything just like

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Speaker 4: goes and you're like, I don't even know why are

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Speaker 4: we here, what's going on?

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Speaker 3: I'm surprised a network hasn't picked you up. Have anybody

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Speaker 3: been reaching out to you? That's the Yes, they've been

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Speaker 3: reaching out laugh.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I've had a lot of meetings, and

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Speaker 4: the unfortunate reality is that my dad's case is not solved.

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Speaker 5: They love to be not adjudicated, so.

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Speaker 4: That is something that a lot of people want to

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Speaker 4: keep their hands off of, which, to me, the reason

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Speaker 4: I'm doing this, the reason a lot of people end

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Speaker 4: up doing something like what I'm doing, is to solve

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Speaker 4: the case. So a deal, a network of documentary, any

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Speaker 4: sort of thing like that isn't really like your thought.

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Speaker 4: Once it's all done, you're kind of like, well, this

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Speaker 4: was the point of why I'm doing this. I don't

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Speaker 4: want to wait until I've solved it a documentary on Netflix,

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Speaker 4: Like a documentary on Netflix might help me solve the case.

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Speaker 4: And so to hear that can get really frustrating because

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Speaker 4: it's kind of like, well, that's the whole point of

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Speaker 4: all this is to solve it. Like I'm I'm not

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Speaker 4: doing all of this to get a Netflix doc I'm

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Speaker 4: doing all of this.

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Speaker 3: To solve it my father's death.

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Speaker 4: So when you're telling me like, oh, call us once

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Speaker 4: it's solved, it's like, hopefully I've moved on with my

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Speaker 4: life by then and I'm doing something else and I'm

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Speaker 4: I'm happy and I've had closure, and yeah, it can

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Speaker 4: get really frustrating when you realize no, no one but

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Speaker 4: you is really a in it for the right reasons

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Speaker 4: or cares as much. And to them, it's like this

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Speaker 4: story is interesting, even more so if it's solved, and

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Speaker 4: then they start to see dollar signs and that's yeah,

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Speaker 4: it's it's a tough I mean, I work in entertainment,

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Speaker 4: so I'm not numb to it, but when it's something.

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Speaker 5: So personal, it can get really frustrating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I can only imagine, because why would you

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Speaker 2: want to relive this again? You know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 2: Like I don't want to go through this again mentally,

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Speaker 2: like I want to solve my father's murder and now

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Speaker 2: I want to move on with my life.

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Speaker 5: Exactly.

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Speaker 4: And you know, you'd like to think, Oh, wouldn't I

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Speaker 4: keep using Netflix as an example, we can change up.

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Speaker 4: Wouldn't Hulu or HBO want to be part of the

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Speaker 4: solving of a case. Wouldn't they want to like give

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Speaker 4: this person a platform so that you can getation out

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Speaker 4: there and then the case solved. But they're not in

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Speaker 4: the business of doing good. They're in the business of

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Speaker 4: making money. That's effect and not that I think that

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Speaker 4: the story wouldn't make them money.

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Speaker 5: I think it absolutely would.

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Speaker 4: But they feel this very weird obligation based on market

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Speaker 4: research I've never seen before, that viewers must have a

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Speaker 4: solved case at the end, they must have closure at

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Speaker 4: the end, and they think that if they present them

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Speaker 4: with a documentary or a story that doesn't end in

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Speaker 4: a full circle here it's all done type of situation,

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Speaker 4: that the viewers will be upset. And I'm not sure

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Speaker 4: that that's factional.

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Speaker 2: I don't agree with that because I also feel like

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Speaker 2: somebody like me, I'm going to be so invested that

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Speaker 2: I'm going to try to help you get to the end.

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Speaker 2: Go as a viewer, and my argument is always that

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Speaker 2: you know anyone who's connected to crime, which a lot

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Speaker 2: of us are, even if you don't really realize it.

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Speaker 2: There's more unsolved cases in America than there are solved cases.

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Speaker 5: So you're probably.

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Speaker 4: Connected to a cold case more likely than you are

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Speaker 4: a solved case, which means the reality for you that

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Speaker 4: you don't have closure through the judicial system is very high.

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Speaker 4: And so that's actually a more realistic picture of what

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Speaker 4: your life could look like when you don't go through court.

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Speaker 5: What does closure look like? What does that mean?

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Speaker 4: And that's more real to me and then hopefully, you know,

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Speaker 4: I do solve it and I get to experience the

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Speaker 4: other side of that. But right now, my reality is

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Speaker 4: that that's not true. And I've been meeting through doing

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Speaker 4: this show a ton of people where that's not their reality.

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Speaker 4: They've never gotten hurt, they don't have a solft case,

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Speaker 4: they haven't found their sister, they don't know who killed

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Speaker 4: their sister or their dad or their mom, and they

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Speaker 4: don't know what happened to their cousin who went missing

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Speaker 4: seven years ago. And you know, closure is a really

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Speaker 4: interesting word that we use to say closed, but that

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Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily closure and closed are not the same. I

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Speaker 4: think you can have csure in your life without necessarily

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Speaker 4: going through a court system and saying, oh, the person

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Speaker 4: is behind bars. So I'm now exploring kind of what

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Speaker 4: that looks like because that might, unfortunately be my reality.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, Yeah, we'll see.

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Speaker 2: That's one of the biggest misconceptions that people have if

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Speaker 2: I started on true crime podcast, especially when the story

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Speaker 2: you're telling is your own. What would you say some

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Speaker 2: other truth some other misconceptions. Oh my gosh, because I

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Speaker 2: learned a lot through listening to your podcast, because I

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Speaker 2: don't really listen to true crime podcasts, even though I

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Speaker 2: love true crime. But I was like, yeah, you might

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Speaker 2: not always get closure at the end, and close and

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Speaker 2: closure does not mean the same thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know, there's a level of I'm curious

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Speaker 4: now if I do find out who did it and

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Speaker 4: it goes through kind of you will.

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Speaker 3: Find out like will I.

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Speaker 4: Feel the type of closure I'm envisioning in my head,

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Speaker 4: you know, And I don't know, But yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 4: I think there's a huge misconception with closure. I also think,

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Speaker 4: you know, not to like toot my own horn about

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Speaker 4: my show. But there's this very wild misconception that, as

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Speaker 4: a true crime consumer, which I used to be very

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Speaker 4: fervently all the time listening to podcasts or watching docs

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Speaker 4: or whatever, it was, that all of true crime is

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Speaker 4: really family focused and victim centric.

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Speaker 5: That's not true.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of stuff that's made that is not

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Speaker 4: made with the consent of the family. There's a lot

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Speaker 4: of stuff that's made true in direct you know, adversely

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Speaker 4: from the family. Families are not interested in something being

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Speaker 4: drummed up or something happening or you know, a certain

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Speaker 4: person covering a case for whatever reason. And it's really

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Speaker 4: interesting being in this world on sort of both sides,

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Speaker 4: on the journalism side and also on the family side,

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Speaker 4: right kind of what goes on behind closed doors with

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Speaker 4: a lot of these big podcast companies that are telling

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Speaker 4: or I would say, exploiting these stories, And it really

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Speaker 4: has given me kind of this interesting mission perspective journey

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Speaker 4: through what does it look like to help families actually

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Speaker 4: take on their own story and tell it the way

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Speaker 4: that their family member deserves it to be told. So

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Speaker 4: we'll see kind of what that what that journey looks like.

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Speaker 4: But I do think that, you know, that's a really

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Speaker 4: big misconception, is that a lot of people it's like

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Speaker 4: this don't meet.

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Speaker 5: Your hero sort of thing. But a lot of people.

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Speaker 4: Listen to these shows and think like, wow, like this

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Speaker 4: white guy who has a podcast is just amazing. He's

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Speaker 4: showcasing you know, this story and what happened to this person,

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Speaker 4: and I hope that like the family gets help. And

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Speaker 4: it's like, well, that person actually was like not hired

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Speaker 4: by the family.

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Speaker 3: He never spoke to the family never spoke to.

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Speaker 4: The family, making tons of money while the family is

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Speaker 4: left with like press on their doorstep now and this

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Speaker 4: case like right in the center of the media attention

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Speaker 4: and they're given no resources.

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Speaker 5: And they have no idea how to handle it.

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Speaker 4: And this person is like flying around making money and

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Speaker 4: doing all of this stuff and kind of becoming a

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Speaker 4: pseudo celebrity while the family has left to kind of

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Speaker 4: pick up these pieces now of like their family member

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Speaker 4: becoming also a pseudo celebrity, but they're dead, and it's

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Speaker 4: a really there's a lot of really great people who

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Speaker 4: work sort of against that and work to help families.

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Speaker 4: I think of like Sarah Turney is a great example.

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Speaker 4: Her sister went missing and they never found her, but

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Speaker 4: she thinks that her dad killed her sister and is

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Speaker 4: fighting for justice. And there's so many people who are

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Speaker 4: doing really, really good things to sort of counteract the bad,

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Speaker 4: but unfortunately the more popular ones are the not so

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Speaker 4: good ones.

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Speaker 2: What's up, y'all is Shagara Ebine here and be sure

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Speaker 2: to follow me on Instagram and TikTok at pretty private podcasts,

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Speaker 2: and don't forget to subscribe to my YouTube channel at

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Speaker 2: the Professional Homegirl now let's get back to the show.

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Speaker 3: You know, you make a good point. What was that

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Speaker 3: TV show that was on Netflix?

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Speaker 2: The Serial Killer? And he was dating a black deaf guy.

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Speaker 2: Oh he had the glasses, white guy with the hair Dahmer, Yes,

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey Dahmer.

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Speaker 3: And what you said.

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Speaker 2: The family definitely spoke about that because they didn't have

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Speaker 2: any relationship, they didn't have no knowledge of what was

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Speaker 2: going on. They had to relive all of this and

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Speaker 2: they was gonna take legal suit. And I thought it

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Speaker 2: would be a good conversation to have on the show

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Speaker 2: of those family members who unfortunately their loved one was

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Speaker 2: passed away, but they have no like, no no relationship

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Speaker 2: or anything.

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Speaker 4: Like.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, how do you make a family?

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Speaker 2: How do you make a movie off somebody's family and

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Speaker 2: you get there exploited, but you don't speak to the family.

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Speaker 3: I think that is so crazy.

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Speaker 4: Or make a donation on their behalf to an organization

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Speaker 4: that helps people like them. I mean, it's really interesting

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Speaker 4: what fame and money and kind of do to people.

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Speaker 4: And I think there's a way to balance that. I mean,

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Speaker 4: there's there's a level of fame that can give you

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Speaker 4: access to promote certain things.

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Speaker 5: And I think there are people doing that.

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Speaker 4: I think of like the Potito family, the Potito family,

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Speaker 4: Gabby Patito's parents, who are doing truly incredible things with

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Speaker 4: the platform that they were, you know, unfortunately handed because

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Speaker 4: of the circumstances.

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Speaker 5: So there are ways to.

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Speaker 4: Do it and do it right, and there are people

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Speaker 4: who are not doing.

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Speaker 2: That so and I feel like they make it hard

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Speaker 2: for the people that want to do it right too.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean they It really is like they

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Speaker 4: want that apple spoils the bunch. You know, one family

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Speaker 4: member talks to one bigger show and they get completely burned,

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Speaker 4: and then when another person comes in that could really

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Speaker 4: help them, they're too upset by the circumstances that happen before.

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Speaker 4: They don't want to speak to anyone. And so it's

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Speaker 4: really sad. But I think that there's a lot of

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Speaker 4: people fighting against that right now. And I have a

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Speaker 4: lot of hope for true crime in general, and also

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Speaker 4: just this sort of victim centered storytelling that is happening.

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Speaker 4: And I mean it's a big inspiration for my show.

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Speaker 4: I could have, you know, gone into this and felt

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Speaker 4: really jaded, or I could have reached out to another

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Speaker 4: show and said please tell my story, but it was like,

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Speaker 4: I want to tell it myself and I want to

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Speaker 4: show people how you can kind of take ownership of

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Speaker 4: your own story.

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Speaker 2: And I think you did such a good job when

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Speaker 2: it came to balancing you being a storyteller as well

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Speaker 2: as you live in a story.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a weird line ride and sometimes I'm like,

401
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Speaker 4: it's such a whirlwind, and I really try hard to

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Speaker 4: be as unbiased as possible and really ride that journalism

403
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Speaker 4: line and tell the story. But I think the emotional

404
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Speaker 4: piece is really important, so people kind of understand what

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Speaker 4: I'm going through and to tell that side.

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Speaker 5: It's a lot, and it's it's tough because I hold

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Speaker 5: it together.

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Speaker 4: Fairly well, I mean you do, and like I you know,

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Speaker 4: I do a lot of work on myself, but there

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Speaker 4: are days where it's like I'm not getting out of

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Speaker 4: bed today, I'm not doing anything, like I'm so emotionally exhausted,

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Speaker 4: and it's tough.

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Speaker 5: It can be really tough, and people understand that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, people do not understand because because those other people

415
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,359
Speaker 4: that are not so connected to a story, they clock

416
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Speaker 4: in and clock out, They clock in, they write a

417
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Speaker 4: little bit, they do some investigating, they make some phocal calls,

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Speaker 4: and then at six o'clock at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: they go to dinner with their friends, and their life

420
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Speaker 4: isn't really impeded at all by this story that they're

421
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Speaker 4: covering and the case that they're covering versus with me

422
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Speaker 4: or people who are so closely related to the story.

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Speaker 5: You don't get to clock out.

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Speaker 4: Your family is hitting you up all the time, you're

425
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Speaker 4: stressed or having nightmares. It's like it's the whole thing

426
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Speaker 4: because it's your life and you don't get to clock

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Speaker 4: out of your life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's a thing. How has social media played

429
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Speaker 2: a role in your investigation?

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Speaker 5: It's played an interesting role.

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Speaker 4: I think I'm partially I'm really bad at posting online,

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Speaker 4: so I would be better and learned to.

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Speaker 5: Post clips, clip clips, clips clips whatever now.

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Speaker 4: Right, Oh, I gotta get better. But I will say

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Speaker 4: it's been kind of twofold. So there's been a lot

436
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Speaker 4: of support, which I am just so wildly grateful for,

437
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 4: even within my little community of people that have been

438
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Speaker 4: following me sans clips. So I'm very grateful that I've

439
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Speaker 4: built even that little bit of a of a following there.

440
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 4: But people are really supportive and then there's the other

441
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 4: side where people are very cruel.

442
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,159
Speaker 5: I get a lot of hate.

443
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 4: From specifically my family family members who I think are

444
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 4: wildly suspicious.

445
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 5: You've listened to you understand, And.

446
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:59,719
Speaker 4: So yeah, my family's kind of split in that way

447
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 4: where so my family is like, I'm really glad you're

448
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,880
Speaker 4: doing this. This is amazing, like your dad deserves justice.

449
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,919
Speaker 4: And then some of my family are like I'm watching you,

450
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,639
Speaker 4: like I'm coming for you. You shouldn't be doing this, which

451
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, sure, okay, and then some you know,

452
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 4: comments and reviews reviews.

453
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 5: Podcast reviews are my least favorite thing. I had to

454
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 5: stop reading.

455
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 2: Oh I hate fucking podcast reviews. Please do not get

456
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 2: me started.

457
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're really bad, and it's podcast we use.

458
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 4: Though I have some good ones and some are great,

459
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 4: and then every once in a while it's like one

460
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 4: star like this girl doesn't know what she's talking about,

461
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 4: or you know, I've got a couple that are really

462
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 4: that are funny. I did a read of mean reviews

463
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 4: on my podcast for actually a clip on Instagram. So

464
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 4: I did something online and I just thought it was

465
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 4: funny and I read a bunch of mean reviews and

466
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 4: like some of them were like this lady needs help

467
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 4: and like it was like very funny. But some are

468
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 4: not funny. Some are like actually, like they really they

469
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 4: know what to say to it.

470
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had one and I want to pull up

471
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 2: on shorty because I was so mad.

472
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, and which I could.

473
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 4: You can't respond to them, I know, I'm like, I

474
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 4: just want to divide myself.

475
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 2: But you know what, it's a good reason why we

476
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: can't respond, because girl, we'll be going back and forth

477
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 2: with these niggas.

478
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,400
Speaker 4: Like I know, I know I'd get canceled for sure

479
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 4: if I was like, all right, fine, let me tell

480
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 4: you why I blah blah blah blah blah. Right. But yeah,

481
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 4: I mean, I think social media has kind of done this,

482
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 4: this twofold thing have been a great way for me

483
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 4: to get tips. I mean, people reach out and stuff,

484
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 4: oh I grew up with your dad or I knew

485
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 4: your sister or whatever, and they'll write in some stuff

486
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,479
Speaker 4: that's really helpful, and then you kind of have you know,

487
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 4: the the haters.

488
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Has there been a moment where grief hits

489
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 3: you in a way you didn't expect it?

490
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, wow, all kinds of ways. I think One

491
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 4: of the things I wasn't really prepared for was I

492
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 4: don't I've not been very good about reemptively baking in

493
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 4: time for like recovery.

494
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 5: So that's when I record.

495
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 4: A podcast episode, I get really emotional, like a couple

496
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 4: of days for a couple of days after and my

497
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 4: timelines are so crunched that I don't have time for that.

498
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,719
Speaker 4: And so like, I'm about to put out an episode

499
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 4: late this week because I was supposed to be editing

500
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,959
Speaker 4: all weekend and I didn't because I was like, I

501
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 4: just can't listen to this again.

502
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 5: I just listen to this again right now, And.

503
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 4: You know that's I should have just baked in more

504
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 4: time for that. And so I was not prepared for

505
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 4: like the weight that you know, recording an episode seems

506
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 4: so easy, like I've already written it, like I know

507
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 4: what it says. I've already done kind of the hard work,

508
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 4: which is like writing the thing. But there's something about

509
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 4: sitting in a room that's silent like to other people,

510
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 4: and like reading what I wrote that can get really heavy,

511
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 4: and that carries on for several days.

512
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 5: I also, yeah, yeah, you got.

513
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 2: You gotta take better care when it comes to that

514
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: because that can really fuck with is psyche.

515
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 4: Oh a hundred percent. And the other thing that I

516
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 4: was definitely not prepared for, which I'm grateful for and

517
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 4: unprepared for, was people coming up to me at events

518
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 4: or conferences or wherever, airports, elevators and they're telling me

519
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 4: their story. That's a lot to Yeah, it's the most

520
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 4: It's like my favorite and least favorite things ever.

521
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 5: I love it.

522
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 4: I love to hear people who feel close to me

523
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 4: and resonate with the show, because that's part of why,

524
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 4: you know, I made it. I made it to solve

525
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 4: my dad's murder, but I also made it because there

526
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 4: wasn't anything for someone like me to feel connected to.

527
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 4: And so you know, when I meet people and they

528
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 4: tell me their stories, it's it's beautiful that they feel

529
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 4: the vulnerability and the connection to me to be able

530
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 4: to share. But I carry that shit with me for

531
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 4: like months, I still think about people's dads who went

532
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,719
Speaker 4: missing and like all kinds of stuff. It's just like

533
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 4: it's so hard to like I have nightmares about people

534
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 4: and I'm like wishing I could help or do more.

535
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 5: Can I Should I make a call? Should I try

536
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 5: to do something?

537
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 4: And it's a lot, and there's a funny like they

538
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 4: call it trauma dumping, yeah.

539
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 5: Which I think is a funny word.

540
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 4: But I yeah, I take on a lot of people's

541
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 4: stuff when I go to these events, and so there's

542
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 4: like a week long period after where I'm just like

543
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 4: purging all of the grief that like I have and

544
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 4: that other people have kind of put on me.

545
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 5: And I was definitely not prepared for that.

546
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something that I had to deal with because

547
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: for my show, like I interview so many different people

548
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: from different walks of life, and a lot of the

549
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 2: people I interview are survivors.

550
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 3: And one particularly interview was with this woman.

551
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 2: She was dating a Syriac killer she didn't know, and

552
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: he ended up killing their child. And I didn't go

553
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: into details about how the baby was killed all this

554
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: other stuff because I also feel like she does a

555
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: really great job with you know, sharing that part of

556
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: her story in her book. But I also realized that,

557
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: like a lot of people have a very unhealthy relationship

558
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 2: with trauma, and I had to take a step back because,

559
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: like you said, it's very heavy, Like people email me,

560
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 2: they come up to me like I'm happy that this

561
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 2: is a platform where people feel comfortable and they can

562
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 2: share their stories.

563
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 3: But I really don't want to hear because I.

564
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 2: Think about it, non stuff, all these emails I'm getting,

565
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 2: I'm like, y'all, it's a lot.

566
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 3: To take in.

567
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. And now

568
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 5: I have, you know.

569
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 4: Connections and resources that I can send them, which is nice.

570
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 4: You know, I've got friends who build like advocacy blueprints

571
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 4: for families and do other things, so that's nice to

572
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 4: be able to at least give them something. But you

573
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 4: can't unhear what you've heard. So it's like like, hey,

574
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 4: I didn't read it. Now, yeah I already I already know,

575
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 4: and you know, I can kind of feel better at

576
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 4: least because someone in the beginning it was like I

577
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 4: hear a story and I go, I have no idea

578
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 4: how to help you. And now at least it's kind

579
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 4: of like, Okay, I have something I can do. It's

580
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 4: not gonna, you know, change your life, but I can

581
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 4: give you something that's helpful. And here's you know, an

582
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 4: online resource or an email or whatever.

583
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 5: And that feels a.

584
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 4: Little bit better because it's like, Okay, I did something,

585
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 4: but you know, you still play those stories in your

586
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 4: head over and over, and you're like, I just wish

587
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 4: that these bad things weren't happening in the.

588
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 2: World, like around trying to enjoy my drink, like, yeah.

589
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: Girl, can you email me? I try to hear this

590
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 3: shit right now.

591
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: Wait, So how much have you spent financially because I

592
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: feel like you was traveling the stop like how much

593
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: have you really poured into investigating your dad's murder?

594
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 3: Because I could only imagine like the quality of the.

595
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 2: Quality of your podcast, and then you putting money on

596
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: people books that have conversations with them.

597
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, I maxed out every credit card I have.

598
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 4: Oh wow, making this show after spending all of my savings,

599
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 4: and I am in like an insane amount of debt.

600
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 4: I'm actually like trying to figure out kind of what

601
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 4: to do now.

602
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 3: Oh, we gotta find you some money medicine.

603
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I can tell I'm like, she spent a

604
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 2: lot of money on this.

605
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm I'm probably at around like a little over

606
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 4: one hundred k in on like promoting the show, making

607
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 4: the show, interviewing people, flying out to talk to people

608
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 4: in person who don't want to be on the phone,

609
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 4: or trying to build that reporting connection with them, so

610
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 4: meeting them like face to face, or you have money

611
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 4: on people's books traveling to these conferences, Like they don't

612
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 4: pay me to go, so I have to fly myself out,

613
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 4: put myself in a hotel out there.

614
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 5: For five days, so I have to get food.

615
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 3: That's a party of marketing.

616
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a part of marketing.

617
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 4: It's a part of Yeah, like building a network of

618
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 4: people to help and to me, you know, meet pis

619
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 4: and people who can file foy us for me, and

620
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 4: doing all this networking, finding new listeners who could potentially

621
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 4: then listen to the podcast, and then I get ad revenue.

622
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 4: It's like it's this whole ecosystem, and it's very much

623
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 4: this like you have to spend money to make money,

624
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 4: but what happens if you don't have money to spend

625
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 4: and it's just like equitable thing, you know, it's a

626
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 4: whole thing. I'm very fortunate that my credit score was

627
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 4: good enough for now the only time in my life

628
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 4: that I had credit cards available with those limits. And now,

629
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 4: I mean, I'll never be able to get a credit

630
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 4: card again.

631
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 3: No will iss you will, guess you will.

632
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 4: So yeah, you know, there's a level of privilege there

633
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 4: to even be able to max out credit cards. But yeah,

634
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 4: I really believed in this and my dad's story and

635
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 4: sort of myself in a way where I thought I

636
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 4: would get really close to solving it. So I was like,

637
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 4: you know what, swipe the card, Swipe the card, swipe

638
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 4: the card. It's going to be worth it. I'm going

639
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 4: to solve this case. And yeah, here we are.

640
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 3: Now you're gonna solve this case, Madison. I feel it,

641
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 3: And now I'm serious.

642
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: I really do. Like I feel like when you are

643
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: hitting the wall, that means you getting close. And I

644
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: feel like you hit a couple of walls, and I'm like,

645
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 2: she gonna figure it out, Like you're gonna solve this case,

646
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:16,959
Speaker 2: and then we're gonna have you back on and we're

647
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: gonna celebrate.

648
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 5: Yeah. Perfect, I'm ready.

649
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I feel like you're so close.

650
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel very close. And that shifts sometimes. You know,

651
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 4: There's been moments over the last three years where I've

652
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 4: been like I'm right here, I'm right here, it's right here, yeah,

653
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 4: and it's like, oh not, not not even close. And

654
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 4: but I do feel like those have all kind of

655
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 4: been a weird way gotten me closer and closer absolutely

656
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 4: certain things, and you know, you can kind of see

657
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 4: my board back here. I've got all kinds of stuff

658
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 4: up there with people's names and ruling things out and

659
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,239
Speaker 4: oh maybe we reintroduced this and what about this?

660
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 5: So you know, I do feel very close.

661
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 4: I feel like I've really honed it down to a

662
00:31:55,320 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 4: couple of people, a few motives left, and now it's

663
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 4: really like finding these people, which is sort of the

664
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 4: easiest part of all of this. You know, three years ago,

665
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 4: I didn't know these people's names, so now it's just like, oh,

666
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 4: I just have to find them. Well, I have no

667
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 4: other name, like easy, easy enough, I'll find them, right,

668
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 4: and maybe that will will shift something. And talking to

669
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 4: people who it's been so long now a lot of

670
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 4: these people are implicated for other things.

671
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 3: And I'm like, damn, is everybody in jail.

672
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 4: Everybody's in jail, but like one person and I'm thinking,

673
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 4: you know, maybe there's a world where they could cut

674
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 4: a deal or do something for information.

675
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean, we'll see.

676
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm yeah, I'm talking to a lot of

677
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 4: people behind bars lately, so yeah, it's it's also, you know,

678
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 4: a world I was very shielded from very unfamiliar with,

679
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 4: and now I'm like, you know, boom boom boom rights

680
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 4: and all kinds of crazy stuff.

681
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 5: It's it's really interesting.

682
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: Was there ever a time where you want to just

683
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: give up and be like just fuck this shit, like

684
00:32:58,320 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 2: I just can't no more?

685
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, yesterday, no, but well kind of it.

686
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean I definitely have these moments where

687
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 4: it's like, what is the point of all of this?

688
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 4: Like am I still in it for like a pride

689
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 4: a pride issue where it's like I've started this, everyone

690
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 4: knows I'm doing this. If I stop now, they're gonna

691
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 4: think I'm a quitter, And like should I just hang

692
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 4: it up? Because like I'm just not getting any closer,

693
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 4: and I'm spending money I don't have, and I just

694
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 4: can't do this anymore. Like my landlord is very upset

695
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 4: with me because I'm you know, not paying my rent.

696
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 5: And like there's just so much going on that it's.

697
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 3: Like and you probably feel lonely too.

698
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 4: Oh my, it's the most isolating feeling ever to be

699
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 4: Like I, you know, am running on this hamster wheel

700
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 4: trying to solve the case that I can't really solve.

701
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 4: I'm spending money now that I do not have. My

702
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 4: priorities are this and I have no other work. I

703
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 4: have no other job. I'm just doing this right now,

704
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 4: trying to survive, you know, from a financial perspective really

705
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 4: of like rent and bills, and but then also like

706
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 4: a mental perspective of like this is just taking such

707
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 4: a toll on me that like if my friend was like, hey,

708
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 4: my job makes me feel exhausted every day and I'm

709
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 4: emotionally drained and I feel like, you know, if I

710
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 4: just listed out the feelings I had without talking about

711
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 4: what I was doing, and my friend came to me

712
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 4: and said this is how my job makes me feel,

713
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,479
Speaker 4: I'd be like, oh, quit And so it's like why

714
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 4: am I not quitting? And so yeah, I do think

715
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 4: about it a lot. It was a big conversation I

716
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,959
Speaker 4: had with myself before I put out Part three, which

717
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 4: is coming out right now, was like do I even bother?

718
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 5: Like do I just stop in August?

719
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 4: I like really had to have an honest conversation with

720
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 4: myself about should I just end it now? And is

721
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 4: this it is this as close as I'm going to get?

722
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 4: Do I investigate it? Just on the side on my

723
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 4: own for not a podcast and just not make it

724
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 4: public and just do it on my own because it's

725
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 4: just a lot of work time, energy, money, emotional capacity.

726
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 4: You know, I'm twenty nine, I'm trying to build a life.

727
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 4: I just got into a new relationship. My last relationship

728
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 4: is kind of ruined by this podcast. So it's like, Wow,

729
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 4: what do I do? How do I navigate this? Have

730
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 4: I learned any lessons? I want to quit all the time, Yeah,

731
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 4: but I don't.

732
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 3: And because it's bigger than you.

733
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, and now it's a little bit bigger than my dad.

734
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 3: I mean, there's absolutely there's.

735
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 4: This in equity happening in counties like Belmont County, Ohio.

736
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 4: There are others, but I'm just really embedded in Belmont County,

737
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 4: but where people should know what's going on. I kind

738
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 4: of equate it to like, thirty years ago, journalism was

739
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 4: this really powerful tool where if you lived in a

740
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 4: county where your water supply was filled with chemicals, a

741
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 4: journalist may have gotten the anonymous tip from someone who

742
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 4: worked the water company, and they investigate it and they

743
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 4: write this incredible investigative piece about it, and then the

744
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 4: entire town is like, oh my god, we should stop

745
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 4: drinking the water, and that was journalism. Hey, your politicians

746
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 4: are corrupt. Hey did you know that this was going

747
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 4: on in your school system? You know, we're putting this

748
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 4: stuff in your water? And it was like this really

749
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 4: powerful tool. And journalists were public servants. They were there

750
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 4: for the public to share information. And you know, I

751
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 4: think that's still happening to a degree, but it's really

752
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 4: gotten spun around. And there's different types of journalism, and

753
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 4: there's different types of reporters, and you know, there's everyone's

754
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 4: got a podcast.

755
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 3: Everybody got a Mitcha.

756
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 5: There's all this stuff. And I feel like my show.

757
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 4: Has taken a lot of different turns and is still

758
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 4: very much focused on my dad's case. But something I've

759
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,720
Speaker 4: really tried to do is like bring back this sense

760
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 4: of like what does this show mean for like the

761
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 4: people of Belmont County? And to me, it's Hey, did

762
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 4: you know your police department is super corrupt? Did you

763
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 4: know that the sheriff you elected is doing these things?

764
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 4: Did you know that the prosecutor that you vote for

765
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 4: is choosing not to prosecute anyone in my dad's case?

766
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 4: And guess what, my dad was shot and killed in

767
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 4: his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer, Yes, he

768
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 4: was a confidential informant. But he wasn't shot on a

769
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 4: street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a

770
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 4: drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. He

771
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 4: could have been you. He could have been your dad,

772
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 4: your sister, your brother, your cousin. He could have been

773
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 4: anyone that you know if you live in Belmont County

774
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 4: and your police department would have done nothing about it.

775
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 5: And isn't that a problem.

776
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 3: Because now you've got to kill a walk into streets.

777
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, and now the show has sort of taken this

778
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 4: turn of hey, Belmont County, pay attention to what's going

779
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 4: on because you are in control of who is in power,

780
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 4: and you should know that this is what's happening. And

781
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 4: so it's sort of taken on this like extra layer

782
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 4: of public affairs, public servantry where I'm like, you need

783
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 4: to know what's going on in your town. And you know,

784
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 4: I'm backing all of that up with facts and figures

785
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 4: and former cases that they've had on their tables and

786
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 4: all of these things. But yeah, it's it's really become

787
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 4: this extra thing that it does feel bigger than me

788
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 4: and also now bigger than my dad.

789
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know you pissing a lot of people off.

790
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, because.

791
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 2: You was dropping nays, you was dropping situations. I'm like, Yo,

792
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 2: how many thrests have this girl received?

793
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 4: Oh?

794
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 5: So many. I get death threats all the time.

795
00:38:58,719 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 3: I am not to smiling about.

796
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 4: I'm writing an awp ed for an outlet I probably

797
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 4: can't say right now.

798
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 5: But they keep fact checking. And I just got a

799
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 5: text it.

800
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 4: So funny from my friend who's been helping me with

801
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 4: like copy editing, and she was like, Hey, I need

802
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 4: screenshots of your family threatening you for the fact checker.

803
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 4: And I'm like, oh, yeah, I have a folder on

804
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 4: my phone. Don't worry, I'll just pull them up and

805
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 4: send them over to you.

806
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: Wow.

807
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's I get them all the time.

808
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 4: I to me they're empty threats because I'm like, y'all are.

809
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 5: Broke people in Ohio. I live in LA Like, how

810
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 5: are you even gonna get to me to kill me?

811
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 3: Your family broke?

812
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 5: Check Like, you can't.

813
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 4: You can't afford to pay someone to kill me, and

814
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 4: you definitely can't afford to come here and find me

815
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 4: and kill me.

816
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 5: So I'm like, I'll just let it be.

817
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 4: But but it does get a little spooky because they're like,

818
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 4: oh shit, like that's kind of scary, but right, I'm

819
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 4: like yeah, no, like my like twenty one year old

820
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 4: little cousin who's mad that I said his dad's name

821
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 4: in a podcast. He's not flying out here to find me,

822
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 4: but maybe he will. I don't know who knows.

823
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 5: Medic you crazy.

824
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 4: I'm also like like, okay, oh no, you killed me

825
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 4: and I don't have to pay rent?

826
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 3: Oh no, like thank you?

827
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh no, it's so bad. I don't have to

828
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 5: pay Bank of America back. Oh that's the worst.

829
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 4: So I'm like whatever, bye. If it's my time, it's

830
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 4: my time, you know, right.

831
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 2: I can see why you want to work in comedy

832
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: because that's not funny, Like, oh I'm dead, No, I

833
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: ain't got to pay right, Yeah, but do you know

834
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 2: how to protect yourself? Like do you know how to

835
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 2: shoot and stuff?

836
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 4: Oh? No, I've never held a gun in my life.

837
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 4: I My friends always like, I'm always like, oh yeah,

838
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 4: I don't believe in guns, and they're like, well, guns

839
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 4: are real, like guns, aren't Santa Claus, like you believe

840
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 4: that they exist?

841
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 5: And I'm like, no, I don't believe in guns.

842
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 2: I think you should at least learn how to shoot though,

843
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 2: just for you because of this, the magnitude of what

844
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 2: you're doing, and like, like this is a real case.

845
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 2: So I just always want you to make sure that

846
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 2: you're you're safe.

847
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

848
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, I definitely should be doing a little bit more.

849
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 4: I did install like an extra lock on my door

850
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 4: in my apartment.

851
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 5: I need to call my see if I can.

852
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 3: I get a camera house.

853
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, stuff like that.

854
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: But so you don't care.

855
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, I'm like, yeah, will I like right, but yeah,

856
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 6: I know I need to. But it's like again, it's

857
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 6: one of those things where my to do list is

858
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 6: so long, and like every day it's like I have

859
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 6: to add five things to it and I only get

860
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 6: three things done. So then I carry those things over

861
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 6: and then I rolls over. It just gets longer and

862
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 6: longer and stuff like that.

863
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 4: I mean, as important as it as it is, for sure,

864
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 4: It's like, all right, well I'll get to that in

865
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 4: like a year and a half when I have time.

866
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 5: I'm like, yeah, that's like what am I supposed to do?

867
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 4: And I do everything by myself, with the exception of

868
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 4: like a couple of friends helping me with some things

869
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 4: because I don't have money to pay them.

870
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 5: And I really don't like having people like work for free.

871
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 4: So like my one friend is helping me and we're

872
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 4: kind of building this together and that's really nice. But yeah,

873
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 4: other than that, it's like I can't afford to have

874
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 4: people kind of help with the to do list, so

875
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 4: it's like it's all on me and I just got

876
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 4: to do it and and then episodes are late, and that's.

877
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 3: Have you thought about doing a gofund me?

878
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 6: I can't.

879
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 5: I did one last year.

880
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 4: I'm really weird about asking for money me, So I'm weird.

881
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 2: About gofunding accounts overall. But I think in your case,

882
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: people will support you.

883
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm really weird about it's still up and I

884
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 4: never took it down. But it's also like such a

885
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 4: weird time. I mean, I live in LA and at

886
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 4: the time that I did it, which was like a

887
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 4: year ago, a little over a year ago, you know,

888
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 4: all my friends were still recovering from the strike, people

889
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 4: like figuring out work stuff.

890
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 5: You know.

891
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,919
Speaker 4: Now you know, LA was on fire five months ago,

892
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 4: and our economy is tanking before our eyes, and it's

893
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 4: like everyone is struggling, and I'm really sense that, but.

894
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 5: It's still up. It's there. I don't even know if anyone.

895
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 5: I don't think anyone's like done anything with it recently.

896
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 5: But you know, with me, we'll.

897
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 3: Begin off so I can share with my people.

898
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 5: Thank you.

899
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, to support you.

900
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, we got like four grand which was super helpful.

901
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 4: It was like exactly what I needed to keep the

902
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 4: show going through part two, which was awesome. And you know,

903
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 4: it's still up, but yeah, it's been really interesting.

904
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, but that to do list just.

905
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 4: Grows and grows and grows, and it's like, you know,

906
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 4: with with life stuff and personal stuff and also podcast

907
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 4: stuff and and work and trying to find work and

908
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 4: all that kind of stuff, it just it gets to

909
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 4: be a lot when you're tired and you're emotionally drained.

910
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 4: You know, I've got days where it's like I just

911
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 4: want to lay on my couch and watch Real Housewives

912
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 4: of Beverly Hills.

913
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 5: For like right, like I don't want to you know.

914
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 4: It's one of those things where like you get you

915
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 4: so much to do you don't know where to begin,

916
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 4: so you're like this is anything and runny thing at all,

917
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 4: And then the next day I'm like, like, how did

918
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 4: I get so backed.

919
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 5: Up, Yeah, like wait, how do we get here?

920
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 4: And then it like cuts to me like black and white,

921
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 4: just like scrolling through Netflix, and it's like, oh, that's

922
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 4: how we got here, right right right?

923
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 5: Yeah?

924
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: You know.

925
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 2: One of the things that you spoke about that I

926
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 2: feel like a lot of black women go through is

927
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 2: impostera syndrome. So has how has imposta syndrome ever made

928
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 2: you question? What are you doing too much? Or doesn't

929
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 2: make you feel like you're not doing enough?

930
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 5: Both?

931
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 4: I feel like in the beginning, I guess it's always

932
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 4: always it's been both. It's been this weird sense of

933
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 4: I'm doing too much, I'm too loud, I'm making too

934
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 4: big of a splash. You know. In the beginning, I

935
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 4: was making bags that said did you kill my dad?

936
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 4: On them? I'm like giving them away and like really

937
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 4: trying to like have a big you know, push and

938
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 4: get to go Wait what's this about? And it made

939
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 4: me really feel like, I think, a feeling that a

940
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 4: lot of black women feel, which is like I'm taking

941
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 4: up too much space, Like I'm just taking up way

942
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 4: too much space here, and you know, all these people

943
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 4: are looking at me like where'd you come from?

944
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 5: What are you doing here?

945
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 4: And you're like, oh, no, am I am I being

946
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 4: too like loud? Am I making too much of a splash?

947
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 4: Should I try to like morph and fit in a

948
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 4: little bit better and kind of work my way up

949
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 4: through the proper channels instead of just coming in and

950
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 4: doing it my own way, right? And then sometimes I'm like, oh,

951
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,959
Speaker 4: I'm doing it my own way and that's not enough

952
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 4: and I should have done it the way that all

953
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 4: these other people did it, because they know more than me,

954
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 4: and they're doing more than me, and they're on you know,

955
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 4: they're being interviewed by Dax Shepherd on Armchair Expert, and

956
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 4: they're number one on the podcast.

957
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 5: Charts, and they know how to do all this stuff.

958
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 4: And I'm just over here like, hey, I'm figuring it

959
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 4: out and I'm mixed my show and I'm editing it

960
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 4: alone a lot. I don't know what I'm doing. And

961
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 4: all these people have, like, you know, these crews and

962
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 4: these teams and their shows are you know, skyrocketing and

963
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 4: probably making a ton of money.

964
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 5: And it makes you feel kind.

965
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 4: Of like, oh, is the value of my show in

966
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,240
Speaker 4: how much money I'm producing or how many downloads I'm getting?

967
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 4: And if that's the case, then my show sucks and

968
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 4: you can really spiral. Oh I know, yeah, And so

969
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 4: I go through that a lot. I mean on a

970
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 4: daily basis. I mean I'm looking all the time at like,

971
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 4: where's the podcast stand today?

972
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 5: Oh, we're not on the charts at all. Awesome, that's great.

973
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 3: I'll just go back to crazy.

974
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 2: But don't let that get to you, because that's something

975
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 2: that I have to tell myself because I feel like

976
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 2: my show is fucking amazing. Like I feel like you're

977
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 2: not going to hear stories like this for women that

978
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 2: look like us, for us to speak just be ourselves.

979
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 2: And I feel like it was a point in time

980
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 2: where people were coming out and people are like, oh

981
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 2: my god, they're so amazing show. And I'm like, she's

982
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 2: talking about the same shit I'm talking about. My shit

983
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 2: is better. It's just like it's it's so frustrating, and

984
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 2: I don't think people understand why we need you to support,

985
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 2: why we need you to listen, why the reviews matter,

986
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 2: why you need to share, Like, if you can't support

987
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: me financially, there's other ways that you can support me,

988
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 2: so this show can grow.

989
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 5: One hundred thousand percent. And most especially.

990
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 4: I think that's another great thing about podcasting is most

991
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 4: of the ways to support podcasters are free.

992
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 3: Exactly.

993
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 4: It costs no money, down, writing a review, sharing it, like,

994
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,479
Speaker 4: all of those things are truly free. And they pay

995
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 4: dividends because advertisers see that and they want to invest

996
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 4: in shows, and advertisers see that and they want to

997
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 4: run more ads on shows, and then you get bigger

998
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 4: advertisers and and all of that stuff like adds up,

999
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 4: and that's all at the cost of the listener zero dollars.

1000
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 5: It's it's zero dollars.

1001
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 3: You just got to listen, give me a seconds.

1002
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so yeah, it's really it's the beauty of podcasting.

1003
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 4: But it's also tough because then on the other side

1004
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 4: of it, there's so much saturation and so.

1005
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 5: Many shows and so much stuff.

1006
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 4: And I read a stat that was like, if you

1007
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 4: get like a thousand downloads an episode or something, you're

1008
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 4: in the top one percent of all podcasts because there's

1009
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 4: so many podcasts.

1010
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's just crazy.

1011
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 4: To me because it's how do you find your community

1012
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 4: in a sea of all of these things? But I

1013
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 4: think I want to believe that the good shows end

1014
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 4: up kind of finding their way, even if.

1015
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 5: It takes a while. It takes a while, but you know,

1016
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:33,479
Speaker 5: sometimes I.

1017
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,439
Speaker 4: Lose faith in that, but I but I really want

1018
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,439
Speaker 4: to believe that, like shows like yours, and like I've

1019
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 4: got friends who have really incredible podcasts, and I'm like,

1020
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 4: I want to believe that those shows eventually.

1021
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 5: Will have their moment and get their.

1022
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: Day, but not those shows our shows, because your show

1023
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 2: would get that moment too. But I also think it's

1024
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,760
Speaker 2: important that we support each other. So when I found

1025
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 2: your show and I read about it, I was like, oh,

1026
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: without a doubt, I reached out to you, like I'm like,

1027
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 2: I have to have you in a show because this

1028
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 2: is what people need to hear. I feel like I

1029
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 2: can't even imagine that things you go through on a

1030
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 2: daily basis and then just financially, like financially like it's

1031
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: really lonely.

1032
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's yeah, it's so isolating.

1033
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 4: And I've got friends who they're not doing great, you know,

1034
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 4: by any mean, I don't know anyone who's like, you know,

1035
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,439
Speaker 4: rolling in money right now, but right they're doing well

1036
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 4: to the point where it's like, oh, let's take a

1037
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 4: trip or let's go do something. And you're like let's

1038
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 4: go to dinner tonight. And it's like very weird to

1039
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 4: be almost thirty and be like, oh I can't. That's

1040
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 4: really isolating because it's like you kind of work your

1041
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 4: whole twenties and like kind of scrap it up and

1042
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 4: like really like eat ramen and do all those things

1043
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 4: to like so by the time you're in your late twenties,

1044
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 4: you're like, Okay, I'm a little bit more like if

1045
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 4: I want something, I can get it, or if I

1046
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 4: want to do something, to do it. And to be

1047
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 4: now sort of in a place where like I'm not

1048
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 4: there is incredibly isolating because also like my friends don't

1049
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 4: fully understand.

1050
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 3: Oh if they're not creative, forget about it.

1051
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they don't fully understand, and so it's tough,

1052
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 4: and yeah, it's it's also just like, you know, I

1053
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 4: think we're all hard on ourselves and we expect a

1054
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 4: lot from ourselves. So it's very sad for me to

1055
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 4: be like, oh, you know you, I wish I was

1056
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 4: in a different place. And I think that goes back

1057
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 4: to the frustration that you probably hear in the podcast,

1058
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,399
Speaker 4: which is like I don't want to be doing this.

1059
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 4: I don't want to be talking to you on the

1060
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 4: show because I wish that I didn't have my podcast,

1061
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 4: Like I wish I didn't have to be doing this. Yeah,

1062
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 4: and I am, and I do have to do this,

1063
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 4: and it's very frustrating because at the end of the day,

1064
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 4: like I'd rather be doing something else. I'd rather be

1065
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 4: like building a career and having a life and like

1066
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 4: going to like do on trips with my friends and

1067
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 4: eating dinners with cool people and meeting new people and

1068
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 4: having these cool experiences and not sitting at home sad

1069
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 4: and trying to regroup from a long day of investigating

1070
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 4: my dad's murder. Like I wish that I wasn't doing this,

1071
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 4: and if the police had done their job, then I

1072
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 4: wouldn't be and my life would be in a completely

1073
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 4: different spot right now, and i'd probably be, you know,

1074
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 4: at a point where I'm like paying back my mom

1075
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 4: and my grandma for the money that they've helped me

1076
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 4: with all these years, which is like by the time

1077
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 4: I turned thirty, something I hoped I could do. Yeah,

1078
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 4: and yeah, it's just really sad that the reality is,

1079
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 4: like the police didn't do their job, and now I'm

1080
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 4: doing this, and now I'm sort of in this position

1081
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 4: because of their incompetencies, and it's it's incredibly frustrating.

1082
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, now what made you start the investigation on your own?

1083
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 2: Like did something happen or did you was having a

1084
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 2: conversation with the police officer and you was just like,

1085
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: something's not adding up.

1086
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I didn't have a ton of info when

1087
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 4: I first started, I called, well, it was during the pandemic,

1088
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 4: so I was very bored and I didn't have a

1089
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 4: job because nobody had a job, and I was just

1090
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 4: sitting at home and watching TV all day, like Tiger

1091
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 4: King and love.

1092
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,479
Speaker 3: Tiger King was so good.

1093
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was like crazy.

1094
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 4: And like watching like tiktoks of people like washing their

1095
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,760
Speaker 4: like fruit with like down dish soap or something.

1096
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,919
Speaker 5: But I was super bored, and.

1097
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 4: I was watching like old true crime docs and listening

1098
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 4: to old podcasts and you know, doing all that kind

1099
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 4: of stuff that we were all sort.

1100
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 5: Of stuck at home doing.

1101
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 4: And it really dawned on me that a lot of

1102
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 4: the shows I used to watch or used to listen

1103
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 4: to back in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, in

1104
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 4: twenty twenty were going through court or had a retrial

1105
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 4: or something had happened. There was motion in the case

1106
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 4: as a result of the things that I listened to

1107
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 4: back five years ago, and so I was like, oh, interesting,

1108
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 4: I wonder if I just like got ahold of my

1109
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 4: dad's case files, like what I would find and maybe,

1110
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 4: you know, five years later, which is now, there would

1111
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 4: be some movement there. And so I called to get

1112
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 4: the case files and that was really when it started.

1113
00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 4: And then yeah, I had that moment of like this,

1114
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 4: and as I started reading the case files, it was like, oh,

1115
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 4: this is weird and suspicious and like things aren't adding

1116
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 4: up and why didn't they investigate this and why did

1117
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 4: they never talk to this person?

1118
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 3: I guess common sense at this point.

1119
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And so yeah, that's that was kind of

1120
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 4: the path.

1121
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 5: It was like a very loose like what if I

1122
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 5: did something like this?

1123
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 4: And then it was like, oh, I have to do

1124
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 4: something like this, because what the fuck is this case file?

1125
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 3: Right?

1126
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 2: Right? Do you ever feel guilty for the things you

1127
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 2: uncover or how it affect the other people?

1128
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I I feel. I feel, I feel like a

1129
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 4: weird I don't even know the word for it.

1130
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 5: Bad.

1131
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:54,959
Speaker 4: No, I feel and responsible, No, I feel I don't

1132
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 4: know the right word to use to be honest with you.

1133
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 4: But there's this, there's this sense of I don't like

1134
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 4: exposing my family necessarily. I don't like this like dragging

1135
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:07,959
Speaker 4: skeletons out of the closet type thing.

1136
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 5: But I feel similarly with that as I.

1137
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 4: Do the police, where it's like, well, if you guys

1138
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 4: had done something a long time ago, then I wouldn't

1139
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 4: need to be doing this.

1140
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 5: So it's sort.

1141
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 4: Of like you made your bed and now you have

1142
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 4: to lie in it. It's not my fault that you

1143
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 4: did the things you did. It's maybe my fault that

1144
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 4: I'm talking about them. But if you had owned it

1145
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,240
Speaker 4: back in the day, or if you had done something

1146
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 4: to further investigate my dad's murder and not brushed it

1147
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 4: under the rug, then I probably wouldn't be talking about

1148
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 4: how your drug dealing could potentially have been a cause

1149
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 4: for my dad's murder. And if it wasn't, then we

1150
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 4: would have been all moved on from this. And it's fine,

1151
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 4: but you didn't choose to like investigate. I mean, I

1152
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 4: was six when this happened. What was I supposed to

1153
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 4: do about it?

1154
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 5: But if you all had.

1155
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 4: Done something about it, then I wouldn't have grown up

1156
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 4: to then do what I'm doing now. So that's kind

1157
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 4: of how I feel, where it's like I don't like

1158
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 4: doing it. I wish I didn't have to do it,

1159
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 4: but I have to investigate every possible avenue, and if

1160
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 4: that includes your illegal activity as a possible motive for

1161
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 4: why my dad got killed or why they were at

1162
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 4: Omar's house or why something was going on, then that's

1163
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 4: just the reality. And if you had done this when

1164
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 4: I was six and when my dad was first murdered,

1165
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 4: then maybe we wouldn't be here. So it's like I feel,

1166
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 4: you know, empathy for them, but I don't feel bad

1167
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 4: because it's there. They made those choices, they made those decisions,

1168
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 4: and they just thought that they were going to get

1169
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 4: away with it, so like that's not my problem.

1170
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like when it comes to the family members,

1171
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 2: I feel like they are struggling to navigate the line

1172
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 2: between loyalty and more accountability.

1173
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 3: Like it's really hard for this, yeah.

1174
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 4: One hundred percent, and you know it would be very easy.

1175
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 4: A lot of this stuff I'm brushing up myself. This

1176
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 4: isn't information that they've offered me, which also to me

1177
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 4: is suspicious So if they had come to me and

1178
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,879
Speaker 4: been like, hey, listen, I was drug dealing and I

1179
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,720
Speaker 4: sometimes would run into Darryl Smith and we would exchange words,

1180
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 4: but we weren't really that close, and I remember this

1181
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 4: this about him, and he drove this kind of car,

1182
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 4: and that's all I know.

1183
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 5: If I then found out, oh.

1184
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 4: They were drug dealing and they did see Daryl, sometimes

1185
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 4: it'd be like, oh, they already told me all that.

1186
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:26,919
Speaker 5: We're all good.

1187
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 4: I already knew that, and like, I don't think it

1188
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 4: has anything to do with it. But when they don't

1189
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 4: tell me that and then I find out.

1190
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 3: It looks suspicious.

1191
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 4: Oh well, that's a little weird that they I talked

1192
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 4: to them for four hours and they never brought that

1193
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 4: up once. Right, weird to me, And so that's when

1194
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 4: I call it out. So it's not like I'm just

1195
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 4: out here like here's everyone's laundry. It's like, oh, I

1196
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 4: had to find out that Omar's brother was married to

1197
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 4: Daryl's ex girlfriend for six months through the ex girlfriend

1198
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,839
Speaker 4: because you didn't ever tell me that. Okay, I'm gonna

1199
00:56:58,840 --> 00:56:59,359
Speaker 4: bring that up.

1200
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 3: Because that's weird.

1201
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 2: And so it's like me so stressed child I'm like,

1202
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 2: come on, now, we'll be doing here.

1203
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:06,439
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1204
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 4: I mean, well that man he needs a few more

1205
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 4: screws and has had. But yeah, that it's stuff like

1206
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 4: that where it's like I'm not intentionally just being like,

1207
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 4: here's everyone's business, Like there's stuff I don't share, but

1208
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 4: I share the stuff where it's like, oh, weird. I

1209
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 4: talk to you, I interviewed you. You never brought that up.

1210
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 4: You never said that to me. You never told me

1211
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 4: you went to school with that person, You never told

1212
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 4: me that you hung out with them before.

1213
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 5: Why that's weird.

1214
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now take us back to July eleventh, two thousand

1215
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 2: and two, because I thought it was so fucking crazy

1216
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 2: that your family lied to you and told you that

1217
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 2: your father died from a heart attack. And it's so

1218
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 2: many families from the interviews that I've done in the

1219
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 2: past that had similar stories, and I'm like, why do

1220
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 2: we keep lying to each other like this, Like like

1221
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 2: we're not going to find out the truth.

1222
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 5: That's my white.

1223
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 4: Side, my white mom and my white grandma.

1224
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 5: No, but it was.

1225
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 4: But yeah, I talk about this a lot because I

1226
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 4: think it we really discredit kids' abilities to process information,

1227
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 4: and I actually think the younger people learn things, the

1228
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 4: better they process them.

1229
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 3: I agree.

1230
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 4: I think if you had very plainly, in like very

1231
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 4: simple terms, gone to me at six almost seven, and said,

1232
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 4: bad things happen.

1233
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 5: There are bad people in the world.

1234
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 4: Your dad was shot with a gun, which I'm sure

1235
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 4: at that point I had seen before in a movie

1236
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 4: or a cartoon or something, and he died, and he's

1237
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 4: not with us anymore, and you won't ever get to

1238
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 4: see him again because somebody pulled a trigger and he died.

1239
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 5: I would have been able.

1240
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 4: I would have been very upset and probably very like

1241
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 4: what I don't understand rightfully. So that to me is

1242
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 4: better than going, oh, my family lied to me for

1243
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 4: six years. And not only did they lie to me,

1244
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 4: you know, it's one thing to be like, hey, your

1245
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 4: dad's not with us anymore in your six and you're

1246
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 4: kind of like, huh, they made up a whole story.

1247
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 4: They said it was a heart attack. I mean, there's

1248
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 4: all this stuff, and it's like, you know, that to

1249
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 4: me is like, now you've created a whole world for

1250
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 4: me to like, you know, with.

1251
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 3: That's not real, that's that's so crazy.

1252
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1253
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 4: So it was very weird, and you know, I understand again,

1254
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 4: there's this level of like empathy where it's like I

1255
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 4: get it. I understand, like why you did what you

1256
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 4: did and why you feel the way that you feel,

1257
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 4: But I don't know if you were really thinking about

1258
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 4: the grander scenario and like the real impact that this.

1259
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 5: Was going to have.

1260
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 4: And yeah, and I think, yeah, you didn't give me

1261
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 4: enough credit to be able to process that information and

1262
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 4: carry it and move forward with my life.

1263
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1264
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 2: And you know, when I was listening to the show,

1265
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 2: I thought it was so crazy because your dad was

1266
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 2: known for having a lot of guns throughout the house.

1267
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 2: So the fact that he didn't pick not one gun

1268
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 2: up let me know that he knew to person.

1269
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 4: Yes, so I agree, I think that. So in order

1270
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 4: to get to my dad's front door, you have to

1271
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 4: go up the steps. So it's kind of like one

1272
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 4: of those like the first the first floor is like

1273
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 4: at the top floor kind of steps, that's where the

1274
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 4: front door is, and then the downstairs is like a

1275
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 4: basement area, and so to go up these steps. Now,

1276
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 4: if you go up the steps, the front door is

1277
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 4: in the middle of the house. So on this side

1278
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 4: you have like a bunch of bay windows it's the

1279
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 4: living room and my sister's room past that and on

1280
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 4: this side of my dad's room. So when you go

1281
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 4: up those steps, you're passing my dad's side of the

1282
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 4: house where my dad's window is, right. So I think

1283
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 4: he heard voices that he recognized coming up the steps.

1284
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 4: He gets out of bed because I'm sure they were

1285
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 4: loud and whatever, and it's like six p forty in

1286
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 4: the morning, So he gets out of bed to go

1287
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 4: and be like what is going on out there? Like

1288
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 4: why is so and so there.

1289
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 5: And what are they doing here?

1290
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 4: At six forty in the morning, And he starts walking

1291
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 4: to the door. And I think the reason he didn't

1292
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 4: grab a gun is because he was like, what are

1293
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 4: they what's going on outside?

1294
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 5: Why are they here? And he knew them.

1295
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 4: If he didn't, if he heard voices he didn't recognize

1296
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 4: my dad, a probably wouldn't have gotten out of bed, right,

1297
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 4: he would have grabbed a.

1298
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 3: Gun, especially he thought it was a threat.

1299
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 4: For sure, because one of the last things he said

1300
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 4: was my daughter's in here, talking about my sister, and

1301
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 4: so I think, yeah, he went to the door thinking

1302
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 4: that it was maybe not a friendly face, but a

1303
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 4: familiar face, and at the very least before dying, thinking

1304
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 4: that they were close enough that he could say, my

1305
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 4: daughter's here and they wouldn't have done anything. Wow, But

1306
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 4: that's just what I you know, assume, right, So we

1307
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 4: don't't know what my dad was thinking.

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01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 2: That wraps up Part one, Okay, and baby I cannot

1309
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 2: wait for you all to hear Part two as we

1310
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 2: dive even deeper into the details of Madison's father's case.

1311
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 2: So if you got questions, if you have comments, if

1312
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 2: you want to talk about this episode, or if you

1313
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 2: simply just want to say hey girl, hey, please make

1314
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 2: sure to send me an email at Hello at the

1315
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 2: pgpodcast dot com. Also, please make sure to follow me

1316
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 2: on YouTube at the Professional Homegirl so you can watch

1317
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 2: the video with Madison and I keep ken.

1318
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 3: And please follow me on pretty Private.

1319
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 2: On TikTok as well as Instagram. So until next time,

1320
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 2: everyone later.

1321
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 3: Pretty Private is.

1322
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 2: A production of the Black Effect podcast Network. For more

1323
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1324
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows, don't forget to

1325
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 2: subscribe and rate the show, and you can connect with

1326
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 2: me on social media at Pretty Private Podcasts.