1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you so 3 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. I Uh, I gotta say, I 4 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: just love the cartoonish nature of this one. I'm Ben, 5 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: get that out of the way. And I love cartoons, Ben, 6 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: I love cartoons too, And I also love the word cartoonish. 7 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: And I really learned it from you, and I think 8 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: a lot of listeners have. They'll drop that word like 9 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: it's a nod to Ben Bolan. That's Ben Boland speak. 10 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: I love it you basically, Like it's not like you 11 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: own the word, but it's certainly you've got the Ben 12 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: Bowling trademark of cartoonish downpat for sure. Ben. You know 13 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: what I love delicious roasted meats, you know, especially on 14 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: a hand turned spit over an open flame, like like, yeah, 15 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: you ever see that massive cone of meat at the 16 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: euro Place, you know, or they shave it off the side. 17 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: It really isn't the same unless it's it's it's got 18 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: to be in motion, dude, That meat's gotta move, my friend. 19 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: That's where the flavor comes from. Everybody knows that, right, Yeah. Yeah, 20 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: It's just like at the Brazilian steakhouses. You remember those, 21 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: I am no, yeah, like Fogo to chow. What do 22 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: they call them gauchos or they like you have the 23 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: little car that you flip over when you meat, and 24 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: they bring you the meat and it's on a giant 25 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: skewer that they literally take off of these racks that 26 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: are like over these open flames and they're just glistening 27 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: with deliciousness and juices. Sorry if we're triggering any vegetarians 28 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: out there right now, but sorry, this is an episode 29 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: about rotating meat, uh, and hedonism and a weird ways 30 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: throughout history that that meat has been allowed to move. 31 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. This is one of those episodes 32 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: that's gonna leave the three of us null, myself and 33 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: our super producer, Casey Pegrum, incredibly hungry, ravenous famished afterwards. Uh, 34 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: you're right. The it has been scientifically proven by us, 35 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: with zero studies or experiments or oversight of any kind 36 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: or oversight of any kind, that the motion of meat 37 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: is what provides the succulents, the flavor, all all the 38 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: all the juicy goodness. It's there's a great uh, there's 39 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: great article and the vintage news That gets us into 40 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: this story where they talk about how in the Cartoon 41 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: and the Flintstones, one of the running gags was to 42 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: have animals taking the place of a of a machine, right, 43 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: household appliance of some kind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like you know, 44 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: the dishwasher was an octopus or there was I keep 45 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: remembering there was a bird right who would do something 46 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: and then there would be a weird you know, sound 47 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: cue and the bird would be like, that's it was 48 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: it like the faucet or something. There's definitely like a 49 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: pig as the garbage disposal. I definitely remember that and 50 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: it and it just lives under the sink, and I 51 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: guess the beauty there is like you're feeding the pig 52 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: with your garbage, so you don't really But then wouldn't 53 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: it just like poop everywhere? Though it seems like it 54 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: would be way more mess creating than it would be eliminating. 55 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: What do you think, Casey? I think you just you 56 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: take that and you do composting and then it's all 57 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: very sustainable exactly basically on the case. But it turns 58 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: out that wasn't so far fetched, Uh, the operative word 59 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: here being fetched. I like that that was good. It 60 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: turns out that once upon a time, once upon a 61 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: medieval time, there we go p well, did use animals 62 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: to do some of the same things that machines do today. 63 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: In the sixteenth century, there was a breed of dog 64 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: whose entire existence was to assist humans in cooking meat, 65 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: and it was known by the phrase the turnspit dog. Off. Mike, 66 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: I was talking with you guys about this over the weekend, 67 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: and when I first saw the phrase turnspit dog for 68 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: diving into the research, I thought they were dogs made 69 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: to be eaten, and I felt terrible, and I was 70 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: wondering whether we should skip this episode. But luckily it's not. 71 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: Had a different job no, uh, And I sort of 72 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: jumped the shark a little bit when I said, once 73 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: upon a medieval time, so we'll backchrack ever so slightly too. 74 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,679 Speaker 1: Before these dogs were employed, uh, back in the medieval times. Um, 75 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: you know, in in Britain, they would essentially just scoff 76 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: at the notion of roasting meat in an oven. There's 77 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: a book called Amazing Dogs, A Cabinet of Canine Curiosities 78 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: by Jan Bondison, and it talks about the evolution of 79 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: this uh kind of dogg e tech that led to 80 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: uh the spit dog um. Initially, though in the fifteenth century, 81 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: it was it was it was hard work to rotate 82 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: this spit by hand. So if you were a chef 83 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: or you you know, you got a lot of other 84 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: things on your plate literally, uh and figuratively, and so 85 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: you're running around doing stuff. You don't have time to 86 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: turn the spit with a crank by hand. So you know, 87 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: in these royal households um and you know, moneyed kind 88 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: of gentry situations, Uh, you absolutely had to have your 89 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: roasted spit meat. And in order to do that, you 90 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: had to actually have someone whose entire job it was 91 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: to rotate the meat. If you didn't have it rotating 92 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: at a steady pace, you know, you would run the 93 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: risk of it not being cooked evenly, or being overcooked 94 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: or or undercooked or whatever. So you had to have 95 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: somebody that was like rotating it by hand. And initially, uh, 96 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: it was children that did it. And and this is 97 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: kind of disturbing, actually apparently oftentimes it was such hot, sweaty, 98 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: backbreaking work that the children would do this job in 99 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: the nude, Yeah, because oftentimes if they were wearing their 100 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: clothes they would get so hot that they could faint. 101 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: And we can't have these these spit children fainting because 102 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: what what will happen to our meats? They will stop 103 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: rotating and that's not gonna fly. So, you know, off 104 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: with the clothes, young spit child. This is disturbing stuff. 105 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: Apparently they weren't even allowed to take breaks and there 106 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: are reports of them having to urinate in the fireplaces. 107 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: Uh in Henry, the eighth home of Hampton Court. Um, 108 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty dark. They were called spit jack's and 109 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: they were they would maybe get a wet bail of hay. 110 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: That was about what they had in terms of workers rights. 111 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: And this could be seen as you know, like a 112 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: funny site gag in a comedy film. But this was 113 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: a very real and very torturous existence. And this was 114 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: also a luxury. It wasn't like if you were in 115 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: the average family in England at the time. It's not 116 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: like your parents would make you and your siblings draw 117 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,239 Speaker 1: straws to see who has to turn the meat all night. Uh. 118 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: This is something that you would see more like taverns 119 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: or the homes of aristocracy. But by the fifteen hundreds 120 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: there was something that was kind of like a the 121 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: medieval version of outsourcing. Because these kids, they weren't just 122 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: living a rough life, they were also frankly often fainting 123 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: just from heat exhaustion, and they get these horrific blisters 124 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: on their hands, which means even when they weren't fainting, 125 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: it was very difficult for them to work. So picture 126 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: King Henry the eighth, like a person in an infomercial, 127 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: just dropping glasses and stuff, and he's going, there's got 128 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: to be a better way. Yeah, this filthy nude street urchins, 129 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: open sores are getting all over my meat. That's a 130 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,719 Speaker 1: disgusting image. And I apologize, folks, but it's true. I mean, 131 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: this was really untenable. And I imagine they had to 132 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: have them kind of like off camera, you know what 133 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: I mean, like somehow like pay no attention to the 134 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: the the young lad behind the curtain, turning the meat 135 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: spit um. So yeah, there there did have to be 136 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: another way. Uh. And and it turns out that other 137 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: way was what we uh know now um as a 138 00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: turnspit dog um, which in the sixteenth century really became 139 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: the way. Uh. And to to get this done and 140 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,319 Speaker 1: to to get the kids you know, let's let let's 141 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: give them some of the let's you know, let's put 142 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: them back in the stables, you know, give them some 143 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: other kind of dehumanizing and dangerous work. Um. But you 144 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: know we're gonna we're gonna relegate spit turning to these 145 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: dogs a particular breed of dog in fact, right, that's right. 146 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: You can see a depiction of this in some old drawings. Uh, 147 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: we found one that was I think through amusing planet. 148 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: But let me just describe this too. So there's there's 149 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: a bench and it's clearly a tavern kind of restaurant 150 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: to people are sitting there, families having food and drinks. 151 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: And there's someone who works at the tavern watching the 152 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: fire where a leg of what appears to be you know, 153 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: lamb or beef is slowly turning on the spit and 154 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: it's attached through this uh system of pulleys to a 155 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: hamster wheel kind of hanging a wooden wheel hanging from 156 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 1: a roof beam. And there's a tiny dog just forrest 157 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: gump level, running his heart out in the wheel to 158 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: turn the meat. Uh. There is also a cat who 159 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: is on the you can see at the bottom who's 160 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: just sort of staring in idle curiosity at the dog. 161 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: I was thinking maybe the cat was there to like, 162 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: you know, like as like a stick and carrot kind 163 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: of approach. You know, like the cat is what the 164 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: dog is constantly running after in place, you know, on 165 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: this little hamster wheel. Because I do, I do wonder 166 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: like I mean, that requires some training, you know, I 167 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: would think a dog eventually would get bored of just 168 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: running around on a wheel. Uh. They would probably be 169 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: some abusive tactics that would go into making sure these 170 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: dogs never stopped right, Yeah, Or maybe they're just very 171 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 1: energetic naturally. The way they're described reminds me a little 172 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: bit of doctions of wiener dogs because they've got short 173 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: legs that got a long body drooping ears. Uh. The 174 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: zoologist Carl Linnaeus called the Canus revertigious dizzy dog dizzy 175 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: doug because they were always running around in circles. So 176 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about this apparatus. Uh, that 177 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: had to be like custom design like for this purpose, 178 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, because the kids were essentially turning a chain 179 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: or like pulling a lever kind of situation. Obviously, dogs 180 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: don't have hands, um, so they had to kind of 181 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: manufacture something that would allow the dog to use its 182 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 1: like locomotion to constantly turn this spit. Uh. So basically 183 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: it was a hollow wheel just like a hamster wheel 184 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: UM with an axle connected to it, and that would 185 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: turn the chain or strings that was attached to the 186 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: spit and keep it rotating um at a steady pace. UM. 187 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: As the dog would run just like a hamster wheel, 188 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: the spit would turn and they were able to um 189 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: locate the device away from the actual spit to keep 190 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: the dogs from from getting too hot, which you gotta 191 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: wonder why they didn't figure that out for the kids. 192 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: Maybe that would have kept them from, you know, passing 193 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: out constantly. It seems like they gave the dogs a 194 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 1: lot more attention and care than they did these children. Yeah. Yeah, 195 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: and maybe if being optimistic, I could say that it's 196 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: a lesson learned from their first time out the gate 197 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,719 Speaker 1: with this abusive practice. But maybe, like many people, they 198 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: just liked dogs more than they liked humans, sort of 199 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: like the Nazis and horses, right right, Like the Nazis 200 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: and horses, the dogs had a number of uses, but 201 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: they also had almost like workers rights. I'm not sure 202 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: how to say it. They had Sundays off and and 203 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: they also you know, when they were done with kitchen duty, Uh, 204 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: they were given another job. They were trained to sit 205 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: on their owner's feet to keep them warm in manner 206 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: houses and in castles which are famously drafty. I'm sorry, 207 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to harp on this too much, but 208 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 1: it's crazy. They gave the dogs sundays off and the 209 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: children worked around the clock year round. I mean, I 210 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: aid only assume it wasn't something that we came across 211 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: of like what days did the kids get off? It 212 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: didn't seem like they did. Uh. Really bizarre and interesting. Um, 213 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: so let's talk a little bit more about the actual breed. 214 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: We talked about a name that was given to what 215 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: has it been canus vertigious dizzy dogous dog? Yeah exactly. Uh. 216 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: This was you know, much like docs sins with their 217 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: short legs and and long kind of slender bodies. I 218 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: believe we're bred for a particular type of hunting. Initially 219 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: in Germany, that's true. The British dog breeders were looking 220 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: for specific qualifications. Had to be dogs was small enough 221 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: to fit in a wheel. Irish wolfhound wouldn't fit the bill, 222 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: you know. Uh, they had to be super strong, they 223 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: had to be energetic, and they couldn't be dummies because 224 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: you had to be able to train them to do 225 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: some specific things. And they definitely didn't want them to 226 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: talk back like those pesky animal appliances in the flint stumps, 227 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: or have hands like those pesky children. So according to 228 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: the Kennel Club in London, Uh, the first mention of 229 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: them occurs in fifteen seventy six in the first book 230 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: on dogs ever written. This is the book English Dogs 231 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: by John Kiss. He said that they so diligently looked 232 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: to their business that no drudge nor Scullion can do 233 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: the feat more cunningly, Drudge and Scullion being names for 234 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: kitchen staff at the time. Uh. And did we say 235 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: it's other Latin name yet? Oh? You the vernapeture cur? 236 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: What's that mean? Uh? It's just essentially like kitchen dog 237 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: or cooking dog, if I'm not mistaken. I love the 238 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: idea of a cur that's sort of a term of abuse, 239 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: an old timey one like you cur, you villainous cur, 240 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: which I guess is a dog. I didn't really realize 241 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: that until looking into the research for this episode. Um, 242 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean it is a good example. Like 243 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: I was talking about Dockson's being bred specifically for hunting. 244 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: It was for hunting specific types of small game like badgers, 245 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: which I thought would uh would do it for you ben, 246 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: and and other types of rodents and smaller things. They 247 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: wanted to be lowered to the ground so they could, 248 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: like wheat, wiggle into some of the smaller spaces that 249 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: those creatures would go. Um, and it's the spit dog, 250 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: according to this book of the English Dogs by John Caius, 251 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: was a really good example of breeding an animal for 252 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: a specific purpose. And to be honest, they have a 253 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: little bit of a spotty history. We've been being very 254 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: nice to the kitchen staff. Uh. These dogs were well 255 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: known in contemporary society. Uh, people wrote about them. Shakespeare 256 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: has a dog mentioned in the Comedy of Errors. And 257 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: the hard truth of it is that these dogs did 258 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: not have a good life, right Like, yes, they didn't 259 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: work on Sundays, but the kitchen staff usually got Sundays off. Yes, 260 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: they got to hang out with their owner and keep 261 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: their feet warm. And that's you know, it gives gives 262 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: us all the all the cute fuzzy feels. But we 263 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: have to remember that these were not ornamental pets. These 264 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: were dogs with a function and they were treated pretty roughly. Yeah. 265 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: And it wasn't until um, you know, animal cruelty groups 266 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: like the A s p c A or the American 267 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals UH started kind 268 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 1: of taking notice of of, you know, animal rights. The 269 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: idea of animal rights was not a thing like it 270 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,719 Speaker 1: was really like animals were here for us and we 271 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: would do with them as as we as we pleased. Um. 272 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: But this this gentleman, UH, Steven l. Zowatowski with the 273 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: A s p c A UH talks about the history 274 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: of of these spit dogs and says that they were 275 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: so low on the social order that nobody took account 276 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: of them. Um, which kind of leaves the history a 277 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: little bit open ended. And then UM, there actually is, 278 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, a taxidermy turnspit dog on display 279 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: at the Abergaveney Museum in Wales. UH. The dog's name 280 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: is Whiskey, by the way, And this animal is described 281 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: by Stanley Corene, who wrote a book called Paw Prince 282 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: on History UM as having a very similar body shaped 283 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: to a Bassett hound with the head of a pit bull. 284 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: So we're we're sort of using our imaginations here and 285 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: thinking about what these dogs might have looked like. I 286 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: think we're from the same page and picturing a docs 287 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: in type situation. A Bassett hound is also similarly kind 288 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: of longer with with little stumpy legs, but it does 289 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: seem to be a breed that we wouldn't really see 290 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: these days. And you know, it's it's interesting how breeds 291 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: kind of fall in and out of favor, and if 292 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,959 Speaker 1: you don't keep breeding them, then they're gonna eventually, like, 293 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,959 Speaker 1: you know, get die out. Uh. And obviously there are 294 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of breeds of dogs throughout the world, 295 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: often bred for very specific reasons and uh, like, here's 296 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: a few examples from this cool medium article that we read, 297 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: turnspit dogs the original rotisserie machines UM. For example, jack 298 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: Russell terriers were bred to hunt rats, and border Collies 299 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: were bred for hurting sheep, and greyhounds were sleek and 300 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: quick so they could hunt hairs. Uh. And then Alsatians 301 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: were guard dogs, so they were all these very specifically 302 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: bred characteristics. UM. Turnspit dogs really really did have a 303 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: rough life. I mean, they were denied some of the 304 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: just most basic necessities that you think of in terms 305 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: of like a dog. Dogs overheat really quickly. They need 306 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,199 Speaker 1: a lot of water to stay hydrated and to be healthy. 307 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: And apparently these spit turn dogs would work in teams 308 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: where they would there be like, you know, one working 309 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: and running its little hard out on the wheel, and 310 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: then when that one overheated, essentially it would it would 311 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: be replaced by another dog, and they would trade every 312 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: couple of hours. And even though they did try to 313 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: locate the wheel a little farther away from the spit 314 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: than it would have been with the early examples with 315 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: the kids turning it so close to the actual spit 316 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: because it was just a chain that was directly on it, um, 317 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: it still was very very hot and a lot of 318 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: this dry heat would hit the dogs um and they 319 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,719 Speaker 1: weren't getting water, so they would really kind of they 320 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: were almost being tortured, you know, right, And it went 321 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: even further than that. You see, some of the more 322 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: villainous books involved in this situation might actually put hot 323 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: coals on the wheel if they thought the dog was 324 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: moving lazily, so they would threaten it with burns. You know, 325 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: I've been silent for a second here, and it's not 326 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,479 Speaker 1: because I don't want to talk about this story just 327 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: to peep behind the pandemic curtain. Uh. We usually try 328 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: to avoid recording on Mondays because that's when my friendly 329 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: neighborhood leafblower uh does his uh does his weekly concert 330 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: outside of this window. I think he's using arc and 331 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: uh audible evil as a way to work through his 332 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 1: own issues. Uh. So, so we've had to stop and 333 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: start there's a couple of times, but I'm gonna give 334 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: it a go. If you hear anything in the background, 335 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: just just know it's a terrible person. Definitely is super 336 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: villain in the making. But what are you gonna do? 337 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's power through it. I'm kidding you know. Uh, 338 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: maybe we'll see if we can get them on the 339 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: show one day. That's a great idea, and he can 340 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: explain the terrible things that let him down this dark road, 341 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: why he is the way he is. Yeah. Right, So 342 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: the torture I am enduring is nothing compared to what 343 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: these poor pooches went through. Like you said, no, they 344 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: were not provided water on a regular basis and if 345 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: they were laboring under heat exhaustion. Some villainous cooks who 346 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: would be like leafblower operators today, would just say, you know, 347 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: these dogs are lazy, and they would put hot coals 348 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: in the wheel where the dog was running. And so 349 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: now the dog is doubling its efforts because it is 350 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: running in fear from being burned. This is a level 351 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: of abuse that, uh, like you said, was quite common 352 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: before the rise of animal rights. M there's a fascinating story, 353 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: and I don't know, it almost seems a little bit 354 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: uh fictionalized or overblown, but who knows. Uh. In the 355 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: Annals of bath Um historical account of of the time, UM, 356 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: there was a story about on the Sundays that the 357 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: dogs are off, they would often be taken to church 358 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 1: with the kitchen staff. Um. And apparently on one Sunday service, 359 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: the preacher was telling the story of Ezekiel and the 360 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: Wheel in the sky, and according to this account, the 361 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: third mention of the word wheel, all of the dogs 362 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: in the in the sanctuary bolted for the door. UM. 363 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: So yeah, now you take that one with the grain 364 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: of salt, but it definitely speaks to the levels of 365 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: abuse that these dogs were experiencing if it's true. Yeah, 366 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: and you can see other authors writing about this. In 367 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: the Illustrated Natural His Street from eighteen fifty three, John 368 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: George would note that the dogs were very aware of 369 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: their shift for lack of a better word, if they 370 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: weren't relieved at the proper hour, their innate sense of 371 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: timing would kick in and they would jump out of 372 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: the wheel without any orders, and then they would force 373 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: their companion, their fill in, to take their place. And uh. 374 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: There was another author named John Cordy Jefferson who wrote, 375 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: in a book about the table, I think a fanciful 376 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: story about the relationships that turnspit dogs had with their 377 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: canine co workers. Yeah, it goes like this. This is 378 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: a little bit long, but I think it's worth worth 379 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: kind of taking you there and setting the scene. Abused 380 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: by men of all degrees, and scorned by every other 381 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: dog of the house, a pair of turnspit dogs were 382 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: continually snarling at and fighting each other, each accused the 383 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: other of shirking his fair share of the or common 384 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: work and devouring more than his fair share of their 385 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: common ration, and in their mutual rage, they would sometimes 386 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: fight to the death. Bouffon tells the story of a 387 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: turnspit dog that, on escaping from the wheel in the 388 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: Duke de leon Force kitchen in Paris, ran in upon 389 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: his fellow turnspit and killed him because the latter had, 390 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: by sulking, compelled him to perform an additional spell of work. 391 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: A similar incident occurred at the Jesuits College of La Flesh, 392 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: where a turnspit dog, infuriated by being compelled to work 393 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: in the wheel when it was his turn to be resting, 394 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: had no sooner escaped from the cage of torture than 395 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: he hunted out his dishonest comrade, and after a brief 396 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: conflict with him, took his life. Wow, these were violent 397 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: little fellows, weren't they. I guess you know that's essentially 398 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: the kind of attitude you're gonna breed when when you 399 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 1: when you're living this life of constant servitude and sir 400 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: vival that, yeah, you not wouldn't make the most friendly animals. 401 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: I want I wonder if they were infamous for, like, 402 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 1: you know, attacking other household dogs. We talked about how 403 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: they were like on the lowest possible wrong of the 404 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: social strata in dog terms. In these households Um, I 405 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: bet they would be punished very severely if they were 406 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: caught nipping at the treasured, actual lapdog of the family. Yeah, 407 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: it's a good question. And again the history is spotty 408 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: because these dogs were not considered especially important, right they were. 409 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: It's like, why would you write history of a specific 410 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: kitchen gadget, which, by the way, or the exact kind 411 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: of books I love reading, Give me five pages on 412 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: the rise of the blender or the the sport, the fippoon. Uh, 413 00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: what's another good one? Like the zeudler seen as zeudler. 414 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: What's a zudler? It makes noodles out of like vegetables, 415 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: zucchini and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Um. Also, you know, 416 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 1: the most dangerous kitchen appliance or gadget is that that 417 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: I own at least is a mandolin. You know, it's 418 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: made for like julianning things, and it's very easy when 419 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: you're scraping things on this plane with these crazy sharp 420 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: blades to accidentally slice your entire hand across that thing. 421 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: I've done it more than a couple of times, and 422 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,479 Speaker 1: it's like getting clawed by a vicious cat with like 423 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: metal talents. What sacrifices will we not make in the 424 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: pursuit of great cuisine, which is really messed up way 425 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: to look at turnspit dogs. But also we're not heaping 426 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 1: approbrium on just the British. It's very easy to do 427 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: so because that's where most of the reports come from. 428 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: But less you look down on our cousins across the pod. Uh. 429 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: Please remember that there's evidence of turnspit dogs beat you 430 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: used in the early United States. Pennsylvania's founder did it, 431 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: that's right. And in the Pennsylvania Gazette, which was Ben 432 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: Franklin's publication, UM, you could pretty regularly see ads being 433 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: run for both the turnspit dogs themselves and the wheel 434 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: apparatus that we're talking about. UM. Pretty interesting. Uh. And 435 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: there's an account of William Penn, the founder of Pennsylvania, 436 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: and his wife Hannah UM through through some letters that 437 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: were found UM, asking uh friends in England to ship 438 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: them over a new wheel for their personal turnspit dog. Yeah. 439 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: This makes me so sad when we think about this, UH, 440 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: And I'm glad that the practice is no longer common. 441 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: It was very widespread. Like we said earlier, in seventeen fifty, 442 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: you could find turnspits anywhere in Great Britain, they were ubiquitous. 443 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 1: By eighteen fifty they were becoming scarce, and by nineteen 444 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: hundred they were functionally gone, which was a very good thing. Uh. 445 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: These new spit turning machines called clock jacks were replacing 446 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:12,719 Speaker 1: turnspit dogs left and right, and according to Jan Bonson, 447 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: who wrote Amazing Dogs, a Cabinet of Canine Curiosity, it 448 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: ultimately became a sign of poverty to have a turnspit 449 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: dog instead of a steam operated clock jack. And the 450 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: author here says that these turnspit dogs were quote ugly 451 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,159 Speaker 1: little dogs with a quite morose disposition, so nobody wanted 452 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: to keep them as pets. This just breaks my heart. 453 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: I I feel like every dog is great, it's just 454 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,479 Speaker 1: a reflection of its owner. So I think these dogs 455 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: could have really blossomed with a little bit of TLC 456 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: if they weren't forced to run on a hamster wheel 457 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: for hours while someone was throwing coals at them. Yeah. 458 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: I mean, at least the hamster gets to just do 459 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: it for fun and a little exercise. I mean, can't 460 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: you imagine, Like, I mean, it's very definition of like 461 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: interminable to be forced to run on a wheel Uh, forever. 462 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: You know. It's yeah, it's it's really is the tortures 463 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: of the damned, my friend, the tortures of the damned. 464 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: No pup deserves that life. And it was these types 465 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: of abuses. We we mentioned this in the form of 466 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: a quote early on, but that led to organizations forming 467 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: with the novel goal of protecting animals from this type 468 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: of abuse. Um. It was, uh the turn of the 469 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: twentieth century which saw animal rights activist groups being being 470 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: created for for just that reason. Um, because of all 471 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: of the absurd, you know, abominable abuses that that had 472 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: been you know, heaped on animals throughout throughout the history. 473 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: So you've got this guy named William Boy's Weaver who's 474 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: a food historian, talking about the treatment of turnspit dogs 475 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: in an teen fifties Manhattan hotel. Uh, and it apparently 476 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: angered his friend Henry Berg so much that it actually 477 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: inspired Burg to found the a s p c A 478 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: in the eighteen fifties. So the s p c A 479 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: literally was founded because of the abuses that turnspit dogs 480 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: are going through. And since the institution's inception back in 481 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty six, it has helped reduce the suffering of 482 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands, probably millions of animals across the country. 483 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: So something good did come out of the the tortures 484 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: of the now extinct turnspit dog. And if you want 485 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: to if you want to look at one, like you said, no, 486 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: the best example is going to be Whiskey, who has taxidermy. 487 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: But if you want to watch the closest thing to 488 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: a living one, a lot of people recommend you check 489 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: out the quirky, which is like the fancy version the 490 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: turnspit dog as the peasant version of the court love 491 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: a corky. And you know nowadays those dogs are more 492 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: bred for just cuteness. Maximum cuteness is what you get 493 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: with the corky. Um. And and there's another silver lining here, 494 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: and I think this is a great way to wrap 495 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,959 Speaker 1: up the episode. Um. Some folks were a little kinder 496 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: and gentler to these turnspit dogs. Queen Victoria, for example, 497 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: kept three of them as house pets instead of kitchen tools. Um. 498 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: As as the Alice Obscure article that we've been referencing, 499 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: UM points out, and there is a poem from a 500 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: book called the Book of Days which describes the life 501 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: of a turnspit dog named Fuddle and uh and and 502 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: here here's how this one goes. Um. The whole the 503 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: backstory is that Fuddle is so angry at his uh 504 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: fellow turnspit dogs. As we pointed out in a previous account, 505 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: that there was often rivalry and and sometimes fighting to 506 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: the death between these um but there was also in 507 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: this story an evil look and uh. The two dogs 508 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: were fighting over like a pile of bones. Um, and 509 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: this is how the poem goes. He licked his lips 510 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: and wagged his tail. Was overjoyed he should prevail such 511 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: favor to obtain among the rest. He went to play, 512 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: was put into the wheel. Next day he turned and 513 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: ate as well as they and never speeched again. So 514 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: last thing, Ivan and say, I think I speak for 515 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of our fellow listeners when 516 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: I say ten ten, I want to see the turnspit 517 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: Dog movie. I want Pixar to do it. I wanted 518 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: to be about a plucky uh group of turnspit dogs 519 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: and maybe like a lovable scamp human kid in the kitchen, 520 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: a spit jack, and I want them to bust out, 521 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: and I want them to go on an adventure and 522 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: I want them ultimately to do like a I don't know, 523 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: some kind of like homeward bound thing mixed with a 524 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: little bit of uh find a Nemo and uh. I 525 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: want the one of the dogs to be played by 526 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,959 Speaker 1: Steve Bushe love it and with the Steve Bushey eyes too. 527 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: I could totally picture that. Uh, you know, I gotta 528 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: add Ben. I think it'd be fun if this turnspit 529 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: dog it was dreaming of a life as a greyhound racer, 530 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: like because he's you know, like he he wants to 531 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: break out because he's he's the best turnspit dog is. 532 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: He runs the fastest and the steady is. But he 533 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: really is secretly dreaming of racing alongside those sleek uh greyhounds. Um, 534 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: which was the thing. I think greyhound racing it was 535 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: even a thing in medieval days where because they were 536 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: again bred to to hunt rabbits. So uh, that would 537 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: be cool. I love like that kind of fish out 538 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: of water story. And then you got and then all 539 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: the greyhounds are like, no, you you can't. You're not 540 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: in our league. A little short stubby legs he can't, 541 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: you know. And then and then and then he shows 542 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: that he's got moxie with sheer will and and and 543 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: and pluckiness. The Turnspit Dog does come pete and and prevails. 544 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: Well he's got you know. Eventually they meet, uh, they 545 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: meet royalty at the end of it, who are amazed. Right, 546 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: And the kitchen scamp, who plays a much bigger part 547 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 1: in this story, is you know, like the number one 548 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: human representative, kind of doing a Rata two e thing 549 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,479 Speaker 1: and uh, he gets adopted or she gets adopted and 550 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: they live happily ever after. But the dog always does 551 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: still have Steve bushim his voice, and I think I 552 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: want him to turn out to be the narrator. Will 553 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,399 Speaker 1: play with time a little bit, but we will play 554 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: with this time because this is the story of the 555 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,959 Speaker 1: Turnspit Dog, and luckily it does have a somewhat positive ending. Yeah, 556 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: I agreed. Um, really enjoyed these two episodes that we 557 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: did this week. Um, sorry, Casey, didn't didn't mean to 558 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: trigger you with all the all the British stuff. I 559 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: know that you're staunchly in the you're on team France. 560 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,439 Speaker 1: Did you send this leaflower, Casey? Is this your retaliation? 561 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: You know? Um? Wow, there's a lot of stuff you 562 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: can get on five where I'm just saying he's son 563 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: of the fish, okay, and then he's diabolical, absolutely diabolical. 564 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,320 Speaker 1: But we love him all the same as do we 565 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: love Alex Williams Dearly who composed our theme. Christopher Hasciots 566 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 1: here in spirit as always, um Gay Bluzier, our research 567 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 1: associate extraordinaire Yes, and Jonathan Strickland a k. The Quister h. 568 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: If he had a Facebook relationship status with ridiculous history, 569 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: it would simply say it's complicated. Thanks thanks also uh 570 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: to dogs in general. Man, I just love dogs, like 571 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: oh it's send me pictures of your dogs. You can 572 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter as a as a 573 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: show we love recommending ridiculous historians, but you can also 574 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: find us as individuals. Yes, I am exclusively on Instagram 575 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: at how Now Noel Brown and you can find me 576 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: on Twitter or Appen Bullying hs W, or you can 577 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: find me on Instagram at ben Bowling uh b O 578 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,919 Speaker 1: w l I N. So there you have it. Who 579 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: let the dogs out? It was the uh the Age 580 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: of Machines. Who was the spc A mainly I think 581 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: it was, but there was also the steam operation aspect. 582 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: You know, there was this certain spit dogs had a 583 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: John Henry moment. We'll see you next time, folks. For 584 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I heart 585 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your 586 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: favorite shows.