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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Vladimir Putin lives to Oligarch another day.

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Speaker 1: What a show we have for you today. The New

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Speaker 1: York Times David Leonhard gives a gut check on the

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Speaker 1: volatility of the primaries and how fast they can turn.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to North Carolina State Senator Representative Rachel

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Speaker 1: Hunt on her run for lieutenant governor in North Carolina

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Speaker 1: and why that states Jerry Mander is so messed up.

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Speaker 1: But first we have the host of the Next Level,

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Speaker 1: the Bulwarks, Tim Miller. Welcome back to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 2: Tim Miller, Hey, good to be back, Molly. I'm just

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Speaker 2: going for that gold jacket.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: That's right, I'm going for it.

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Speaker 1: We have a special gift we give out two guests

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Speaker 1: who come on the podcast numerous times. It's a gold

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Speaker 1: jacket nine times.

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Speaker 2: I'm going for that, right.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the Chris Christie presidential run. I

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Speaker 1: feel like the Republican field it's like a messy bitch.

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Speaker 2: It is a messy bitch. The party is messy bitch.

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Speaker 2: I mean literally, MTG called Lauren Bobert a little bitch

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Speaker 2: this way the house floors. If we're exaggerating.

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Speaker 1: She was like, in my defense, she is a little bitch.

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Speaker 2: The Republican campaign. I think we can break these groups

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Speaker 2: down into a few categories. And there's the first category,

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Speaker 2: which is people that are trying to get famous in Maga,

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Speaker 2: in Maga world and maybe they'll get lucky and things

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Speaker 2: will go their way. That's the vivek Ramaswami group, people

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Speaker 2: of that nature that kind of overlaps with the grifting group.

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Speaker 2: This mayor of Miami, you know, who seems to be

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Speaker 2: a felon of like at least some alleged one.

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Speaker 1: That's right, So maybe he's had some problems. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: thought he was going to running to be Trump's VP.

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Speaker 2: We're getting into the tabinet, right, So like these people

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Speaker 2: have some logical you know, the folks who are of

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Speaker 2: Maga world. Then there's the category of delusional people, and

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Speaker 2: that is I think the most dangerous category, depending on

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Speaker 2: how delusional they are, and that's your Tim Scott's, Nicky Haley,

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Speaker 2: Mike Pence will heard this group, I think because they're

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Speaker 2: in this cloistered bubble of Wall Street Journal Republicans, they

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Speaker 2: think the party is something there that it's not still.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if they've been in a coma for

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Speaker 2: eight years. I mean, these voters literally tried to kill

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Speaker 2: Mike Pence, and yet he thinks that they're going to

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Speaker 2: now nominate him.

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Speaker 1: They were saying, elect Mike Pence, not hang Mike Pence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean maybe Tim Scott thinks he's going

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Speaker 2: to be VP. But the other folks, I think really

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Speaker 2: are just wishing for a party that doesn't exist. And

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Speaker 2: the question is will they get out enough time to

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Speaker 2: realize that or will they stay in and harm you know,

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Speaker 2: whoever emerges as a more prominent anti Trump candidate. I

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Speaker 2: think there's an open possibility that there's a like a

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Speaker 2: literal Trump grift going with some of these people. And

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Speaker 2: I don't have any evidence of this, so, you know,

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Speaker 2: but conspiracy tims my goosebumps are starting to pop up

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Speaker 2: a little bit on this with some of these candidates.

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Speaker 2: It's like, is does Trump have a deal with you know,

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Speaker 2: a little back room deal with some of these guys. Again,

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Speaker 2: you know, no evidence, don't don't don't write any articles

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Speaker 2: about this yet, but it's just that's something I think

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Speaker 2: to keep an eye on.

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Speaker 1: It seems very possible that there is. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: have seen a lot of times in Trump world when

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Speaker 1: you suspect something sketchy is going on, you're usually right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. The one person that doesn't

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Speaker 2: fit that is Chris Christy, who you asked about. And

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Speaker 2: I think that Chris christie situation is a little different,

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Speaker 2: he said, Actually I quoted this in my book Osh

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Speaker 2: I had it pulled up. But like he basically told

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Speaker 2: in a podcast The Dispatch, like years ago, you know that,

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Speaker 2: like when you leave the governor's mansion and the lights

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Speaker 2: turn off, it's hard to replace that feeling right of

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Speaker 2: being needed, of the media calling you. He's like, people

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Speaker 2: stop calling you, People stop you. And I think Chris

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Speaker 2: Christy is just really needy and that he's right now

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Speaker 2: for at least a short period of time, I have

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Speaker 2: my aware of needing this for good in order to

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Speaker 2: go straight out Trump. I wish he done it eight

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Speaker 2: years ago. I'm not going to go over the top

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Speaker 2: and praising him, because who knows, he could end up

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Speaker 2: starting to move into the delusional category and start attacking

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Speaker 2: other candidates besides Trump. But for now he's been doing

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Speaker 2: the right thing. He wants attention, He's getting attention.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I think he has a little bit an ego issue too.

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Speaker 2: He wants to show that he's not actually Trump's beta

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Speaker 2: bitch who just goes and fetches Hamburgers, that he's a

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Speaker 2: man with dignity.

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Speaker 1: I think that is certainly possible. I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you with this situation with Christy. He has this incredible

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Speaker 1: ABC contributorship deal where he makes like almost half a

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Speaker 1: million dollars a year. So there is the good of

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Speaker 1: he's attacking Trump, right, but then there's the bad of,

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Speaker 1: like he's also just trying to stay irrelevant, Like if

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Speaker 1: he doesn't run this cycle, he doesn't get that contributorship again.

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Speaker 2: Correct. Yeah, I'm slogging away in the MSNBC salt mines

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Speaker 2: over here, like you know, doing doing umpty hits a week.

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Speaker 2: He shows up once a month, and ABC is gon

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Speaker 2: half MILLI okay whatever, you know, It's it's just enough

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Speaker 2: to make me go Bernie. Not really, but there is

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Speaker 2: that motivation, for sure. There's a selfish motivation. And this

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Speaker 2: is what I said, And me and Charlie got into

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a heated back and forth. You

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Speaker 2: know where Charlie is, I think, very from a good

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Speaker 2: faith place, is impressed and excited that we have somebody

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Speaker 2: actually saying the same things who's inner Republican primary that

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Speaker 2: we've wanted Republicans to say for eight years. I see

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Speaker 2: that perspective. I just know Chris Christy, and I'm skeptical

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Speaker 2: of him. I mean, he is he has sees somebody

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Speaker 2: that that basically tanked all the other candidates to help

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Speaker 2: Trump in twenty sixteen. He's stuck with him, you know,

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Speaker 2: literally through near death Trump. You know, so this is

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Speaker 2: not a trustworthy guy. You know, he's somebody that I

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Speaker 2: can trust as far as I can throw him. And

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Speaker 2: so you can imagine how far that is I can

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Speaker 2: can even nudge him. I don't think. And so, like

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Speaker 2: I said, I have a weary eye. But I will

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Speaker 2: say him being on Fox, him today's at the Faith

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Speaker 2: and Freedom of Conference we're taving on Friday, him going

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Speaker 2: into the lions Den and saying these true things about

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump serves some value. And I have to tell you,

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Speaker 2: I'll just say this, I loathe Chris Christy. I don't

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Speaker 2: think I've given him a genuine compliment in about a decade,

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Speaker 2: and so I want to give him just one right now.

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Speaker 2: In this podcast, went on Fox and said about trans youth,

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Speaker 2: you know, and finally said the actual small government thing,

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Speaker 2: which is I don't get why Sarah Huckabee Sanders thinks

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Speaker 2: that she knows better what should happen to teenagers than

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Speaker 2: their parents and their doctor. And I'm like, man, that's

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Speaker 2: actually a small government conservative sentence that you would have

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Speaker 2: heard maybe ten years ago from certain types of Republicans.

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Speaker 2: Not all they're always Bible bangers, but certain types. And

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Speaker 2: no one is doing that now. If he's going to

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Speaker 2: say these things in Fox and It conservative conferences, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm still cautious. I mean, I still think he might

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Speaker 2: turn do a he'll turn and start working for evil again.

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Speaker 2: But for the time being, you know, I think that

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Speaker 2: that there's in a symmetry between him saying the right

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Speaker 2: thing and him getting the attention that he craves.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's useful if nothing else exactly, Primary field isn't

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Speaker 1: even full, right, like Rick Scott is now toying wood

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Speaker 1: jumping in. I mean, who is that for?

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Speaker 2: Rick Scott is one of the people I was thinking

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Speaker 2: of when I mentioned my little spidey sense tingling on.

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Speaker 2: Is there some background Trump deal happening right now? Because

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Speaker 2: that's for nobody. I mean, he has no constituency. The

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Speaker 2: only thing I could possibly think of that's not, you know,

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Speaker 2: some kind of dirty tricks happening, is that some of

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Speaker 2: these guys are egomaniacs and are thinking Trump might actually

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Speaker 2: be in jail, like this stuff might drive him so

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Speaker 2: insane that he actually strokes out. And Desantas has looked

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Speaker 2: pretty weak as a candidate, Yeah, weaker than we expected,

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Speaker 2: and so why not just throw my hat in the

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Speaker 2: ring and maybe the chips will come up? Rick Scott. Now,

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Speaker 2: we all who are or not don't have narcissistic personality

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Speaker 2: disorder can look at this and say, no matter what

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Speaker 2: happens like like Trump. You know, Trump could be buried

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Speaker 2: in the ground and Ron DeSantis could pee his pants

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Speaker 2: on stage and Republicans will still not turn to Rick

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Speaker 2: Scott as they're saying there's no situation. But I can

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Speaker 2: I guess understand while somebody like him, who thinks he's

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Speaker 2: the greatest thing ever you know, could think could look

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Speaker 2: at the Trump and de Santas thing and say, who knows?

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Speaker 2: I think that's I think basically that's one possibility, you know,

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Speaker 2: super narcissism. The other possibility is that him and Trump

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Speaker 2: have some deal going, and Trump knows that any one

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Speaker 2: or two percent he can shave off at DeSantis, you know,

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Speaker 2: makes his chances of winning it even higher.

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Speaker 1: Right, this is still really Donald Trump's primary.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's very much in the driver's seat. I

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Speaker 2: look at this with DeSantis. I've always been slightly more

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Speaker 2: bullish on DeSantis than some of our friends who are

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Speaker 2: like ready to say he's dead. It's like it's a

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Speaker 2: long primary. There are plenty of times where Joe Biden

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Speaker 2: looked like he was dead. I thinks has a lot

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Speaker 2: of weaknesses.

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Speaker 1: Flunny. I mean, I actually wrote a piece that I

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Speaker 1: really regret where I said because you know, Biden lost

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Speaker 1: the first two primaries.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we could go back and look what I wrote

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Speaker 2: after New Hampshire. It wasn't pretty about old Joe Biden.

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Speaker 2: It was not right either. So you know, I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to learn from that be a little more cautious me too.

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Speaker 2: I think that things could turn towards the Santas. Right

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Speaker 2: that said, it does not look very good for him

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Speaker 2: at all, and here's and here's what I'm seeing. Really,

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Speaker 2: if you remember the Ted Cruz twenty sixteen, you know,

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Speaker 2: Ted Cruz like really did well with the super evangelicals,

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Speaker 2: the super ideological Republicans, right. That was enough to win

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Speaker 2: the Iowa caucus where there's a lot of religious voters,

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Speaker 2: and you know, fewer people show up to Caucasus because

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Speaker 2: they're complicated. And then he goes to New Hampshire, which

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Speaker 2: has a lot less ideological voters, open primary people who

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Speaker 2: just kind of liked the the WrestleMania element of Trump, right,

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Speaker 2: and Trump slaughters him. Go to South Carolina, Trump slaughnters him,

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Speaker 2: goes to Nevada, which is a really good state for

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Speaker 2: Trump either, there's something about the Vegas Trump connection. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I'm just looking at DeSantis and it's like, man,

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Speaker 2: it just he feels like he's headed straight down the

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Speaker 2: barrel for exactly what happened to Ted Cruz. And I

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Speaker 2: don't know how he can get out of that and

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Speaker 2: do a better job appealing to these mega voters. The

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Speaker 2: sale is not going to be made for them by

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Speaker 2: a laundry list of conservative policies. That's not why they

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Speaker 2: like Trump. You know, they like Trump because of you know,

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Speaker 2: how he makes the left crazy. Right, they like Trump

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Speaker 2: because of his alpha demeanor. He not, you know, I

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Speaker 2: think he's a puss, but you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: they say that at him, right, How does Desanta's get

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Speaker 2: reached those folks. It's hard to see right now. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's why he's a really big underdog.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting because it's like when he came up,

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Speaker 1: he was like the National Review favorite, and they were

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Speaker 1: so excited and it was so cute. But I was like,

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Speaker 1: you guys, this is totally this guy's a total fascist.

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Speaker 1: Any worse for LGBTQ than Trump. I mean, there's nothing

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Speaker 1: good about Trump. But Trump does not have an ideological,

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Speaker 1: you know, obsession with hurting gay people, where as you

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Speaker 1: really do see with DeSantis. I mean real or not real.

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Speaker 1: The proof is in the state laws.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean it's very real. And this is

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Speaker 2: something that I think a lot of people don't really

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Speaker 2: understand about Trump that you're hitting on, is that in

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Speaker 2: sixteen when I was doing the anti Trump Superpack, the

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Speaker 2: thing that really was surprised and disappointed me that I

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Speaker 2: didn't see coming was that Trump did extremely well with

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Speaker 2: the least conservative Republicans in the primary. Ideologically speaking, like

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Speaker 2: if you pull people on issues, it was him and Kasik.

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Speaker 2: In my head, I was like, this doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 2: This guy wants to ban Muslims. This guy's insane. But

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Speaker 2: those voters, they saw the apprentice Trump, you know, they

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Speaker 2: saw the guy from New York City who isn't going

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Speaker 2: to be a weird you know, kind of a religious weirdo.

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Speaker 2: And so Trump ended up kind of having this this

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Speaker 2: strange coalition of like super conservative people, you know, who

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Speaker 2: liked the fact that he was going there on the

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Speaker 2: Muslim ban and things like that, and then super moderate Republicans,

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Speaker 2: working class, moderate, non church going Republicans who liked that

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Speaker 2: he wasn't like a Ted Cruz, like, you know, wasn't

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Speaker 2: going to put in place a six week abortion band

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Speaker 2: with no exceptions like Granda Stantistad Right. He did well

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Speaker 2: with both of those groups in the Republican primary, and

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Speaker 2: he is right now doing And so that is why,

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Speaker 2: in a weird way, de Santis is super far right.

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Speaker 2: Policies in the legislature I don't think are helping him

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Speaker 2: as much in this primary as he thinks they are.

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Speaker 2: I think that they're actually hurting him with that more

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Speaker 2: moderate group who stayed in the Republican Party who liked

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Speaker 2: Trump and don't and see him as less ideological.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I also think part of the secret

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Speaker 1: with Trump was that there were the people who believed

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Speaker 1: he believed what they believed. I mean, he was Schrodinger's candidate, right,

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Speaker 1: because he didn't really have any belief system, so you

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Speaker 1: could put anything you wanted on him.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and Desantas doesn't have that at all now, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: you know exactly what he is. You know, he's going

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Speaker 2: to be a far right culture warrior, and look, there's

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Speaker 2: an appetite for that in the Republican Party.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But the problem for Desantasy is if he's splitting that

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Speaker 2: vote with Trump, you know, because some of those people

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Speaker 2: like Trump too.

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Speaker 1: Write no, all those people like Trump, yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so then Trump is crushing him with the other group.

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Speaker 2: How does the math work? I think that's very student

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Speaker 2: exactly right, that Trump was kind of what he needed

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Speaker 2: to be for different people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting. I mean, and I wonder again

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Speaker 1: as we're going through this, I mean, there will be

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Speaker 1: more and there's a debate in August, right, that's sort

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Speaker 1: of the beginning of it. One of the things I

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Speaker 1: love about this debate is that Rona Ronda McDaniel Romney,

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Speaker 1: she has done this to herself. She deserves no pity.

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Speaker 1: But she came up with this brilliant idea that she

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Speaker 1: was going to make people sign this pledge. Nobody is

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Speaker 1: going to sign this pledge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have no idea that and that we're he

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Speaker 2: in Trump's favor.

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Speaker 1: For everyone who's not completely read in on this, the

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Speaker 1: pledge is that they will support whoever gets the nomination.

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Speaker 1: Asa Hutchinson, Poor Asa Hutchinson, the one sane candidate, was like,

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Speaker 1: can we make it so that we won't support the

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Speaker 1: candidate they're guilty of a felony? And Rona's like, no, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Poor Ronda, I'm not really I think that that's an

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Speaker 2: ex epic thing happening there.

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Speaker 1: Talk about report you so, yeah.

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Speaker 2: The thing that I would love to be a fly

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Speaker 2: on the wall for, you know, because I was part

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Speaker 2: of this in twenty sixteen where I'm so mad at Rance,

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Speaker 2: who is my old boss, and I was working for

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Speaker 2: Jeb and he, you know, came out the stupid pledge

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Speaker 2: idea and took the train up to Trump Tower. And

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Speaker 2: Rans and Trump had a little PR conference and I'm

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Speaker 2: calling him like, what the fuck are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Rights.

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Speaker 2: I was like, you're helping this guy, like you're gonna

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Speaker 2: make us sign this pledge. And he's like, no, I'm

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Speaker 2: saving you because when Jeb wins the primary, then Trump

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Speaker 2: won't be able to go third party. I'm like, you

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Speaker 2: think that guy's gonna honor the pledge? The guy I

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Speaker 2: spent his whole life stiffing people, This guy who spent

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Speaker 2: his whole life breaking contracts, Like this is moronic, and

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Speaker 2: yet Rona is now walking down that same path. And

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Speaker 2: I would love to just be a fly on the

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Speaker 2: wall of the like Chris Losovita Ronna McDaniel conversations about

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Speaker 2: the debate, because the Trump doesn't want these people, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: if Trump's going to participate, she's like camp between Trump

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Speaker 2: and the other folks. So all the other folks want

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Speaker 2: one thing, but Trump wants another thing. But she wants

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Speaker 2: Trump to be on the stage. And so it's like,

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Speaker 2: how do you create rules that bring Trump into the

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Speaker 2: stage and then bring enough other people. I think that

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of drama left between now and August

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Speaker 2: twentieth or August is somewhere in the August twenties when

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Speaker 2: the debate is to see how this shakes out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it seems completely crazy. And the problem

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Speaker 1: for her is if for some reason he doesn't agree,

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Speaker 1: then there's you have a Republican debate without the front runner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who wants it? It becomes the ratings go down,

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Speaker 2: it becomes like, it's interesting that it comes to you

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Speaker 2: against Trump. Trump obviously ends up doing some kind of

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Speaker 2: counter programming, probably starts insulting the RNC, right, So, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and they she finds herself in a very precarious situation

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Speaker 2: with regards to this debate.

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Speaker 1: What are you looking at this week? I mean we're

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Speaker 1: in this sort of sleepy summer zone now, but I

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Speaker 1: mean in August is going to be huge for this

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Speaker 1: Republican primary field. What else are you looking at.

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Speaker 2: Looking a week ahead? I'm just trying to survive every day.

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Speaker 2: Molly jong Fast, Like, what is happening next week? The

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Speaker 2: fourth of July? I hate Actually one thing I'm doing

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Speaker 2: next week it's a little different. Republicans. You might want

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Speaker 2: to use this with a podcast or not. Is I'm

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Speaker 2: going to go try to see Presley who's running against

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Speaker 2: team Oh yeah, we were in Mississippi.

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Speaker 1: Oh fantastic, Yes, talk about that for two seconds, because

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Speaker 1: that's a Carvel's been talking to us about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Brandon Presley, it's an interesting race. So we've got

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Speaker 2: it's the off year. So there's an election this November.

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Speaker 2: And Mississippi Governor Brandon Presley, who is the Democrat, who's

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Speaker 2: you know, the kind of Democrat that could win a Mississippi.

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Speaker 1: He was a land commissioner, right, yep.

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Speaker 2: And he's a little bit more he's a little bit

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Speaker 2: more moderate. And I live New Orleans now and so

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Speaker 2: he's ha an event about an hour away in South Mississippi,

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Speaker 2: and so I kind of want to go check him out.

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Speaker 2: Tate Reeves, who is like literally, if you were doing

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Speaker 2: a parody of a Southern Republican governor and you had

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Speaker 2: Tate Reeves, like, you know, Republicans would be like this

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Speaker 2: is offensive, like this micro Republicans aren't the stereotypical.

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Speaker 1: And there's a lot of corruption stuff because of this scandal,

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Speaker 1: the Medicare Tate Reeves sports stadium scandal.

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Speaker 2: It's with Brett Farv. Yeah, so Tate Reeves and Brett

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Speaker 2: Farv had this kind of insider deal to how literally too,

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Speaker 2: because Brett Farr wanted to get his daughter a volleyball

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Speaker 2: courts or something. It's like the stupidest thing ever. Brenton

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Speaker 2: Presley is a cousin of Elvis related that is right,

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Speaker 2: that's just an accident. So he's the cousin of Elvis.

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Speaker 2: I'll probably write something for the book, so we'll check

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Speaker 2: it out. But I want to get a sense for

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Speaker 2: whether this is do this. There is the history of this,

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Speaker 2: so losing it out. Where I live now has a

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Speaker 2: kind of governor I'm less John Edwards, Sir John Bell Edwards.

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Speaker 2: And you know in the South, in these governors races,

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Speaker 2: you get these one party states where there's too much corruption.

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Speaker 2: Candidates go a little bit too. You know, you can

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Speaker 2: even go too far from Mississippi, that is possible.

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Speaker 1: So I think that like Kansas.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like Kansas. So I wouldn't predict a brand impressive

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Speaker 2: victory at this point, but he is. He's running a

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Speaker 2: much stronger campaign than people expected. I'm excited to go

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Speaker 2: say him next week.

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Speaker 1: Oh fantastic. Thank you so much, Tim Miller. I hope

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Speaker 1: you'll come back.

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Speaker 2: Thanks by.

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Speaker 1: David Leonhardt is a senior writer at the New York Times.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, David.

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Speaker 3: It's great to be on the show.

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Speaker 1: It's great to have you. So you write this newsletter,

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Speaker 1: that is the newsletter, it's the New York Times newsletter,

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Speaker 1: and you do have help with him, and you took

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Speaker 1: a book leaves, but you write it many, many, many

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Speaker 1: times a week.

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Speaker 3: I write the lead item. I don't know, maybe four

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Speaker 3: times a week. Sometimes this week I wrote it. I

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Speaker 3: think every day. We've got a great team of people

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Speaker 3: who including people in life who wake up before people

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Speaker 3: in the US wake up, and they put the finishing

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Speaker 3: touches on it. And the idea is, it's sort of

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Speaker 3: want it. We want to give people an overview of

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Speaker 3: everything that's in the New York Times, but we also

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Speaker 3: want to focus on one story. So usually at the

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Speaker 3: top I try to help people sort through the news

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Speaker 3: on one major story, and then and then lower down

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Speaker 3: we give them all the headlines and culture coverage and

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Speaker 3: sports and all that, and so it's it's meant to

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Speaker 3: be like a digital replacement for the old print newspaper.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious you're read in on so much stuff. I

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Speaker 1: have always this anxiety that I'm missing something you know,

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Speaker 1: I do this podcast three times a week. I get

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Speaker 1: to interview a lot of people. But I always feel

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Speaker 1: like there's some really important essay I have missed reading.

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Speaker 1: You know, that there's some piece of news that I

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Speaker 1: have wrong. I mean, for example, I have a friend

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Speaker 1: who writes on the Justice Department beat, and she's always

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Speaker 1: telling me, like, you know, a certain story might not

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Speaker 1: be quite right or this or that. I mean, do

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Speaker 1: you have that anxiety? You must have that anxiety.

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Speaker 3: I do have that anxiety.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think.

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Speaker 1: But what I have I have.

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Speaker 3: This great advantage, which is I can call anyone at

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Speaker 3: the New York Times it is not bad, and I

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Speaker 3: can ask for their help, and I can quote them,

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Speaker 3: and I can also ask them to edit me. And

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Speaker 3: so what I will typically do when I write a piece, say,

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Speaker 3: you know, any piece I write about the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 3: I'll send to Adam Looktech And usually what he does

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Speaker 3: is he'll say, well, that's not quite right. Change that,

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Speaker 3: change that. But it doesn't mean that I don't still

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Speaker 3: sometimes get things slightly off. It's just really it's kind

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Speaker 3: of a wonderful resource to be able to not only

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Speaker 3: talk to my colleagues up front and make sure that

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Speaker 3: I'm kind of getting really interesting information, but then also

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Speaker 3: have them help me on the back end, because you know,

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Speaker 3: I think your point is right on, which is a

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Speaker 3: lot of times you can say something that is not

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Speaker 3: a correctable error but is slightly off, and then look,

432
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 3: other times you're going to say something that a source

433
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 3: is going to say, well, that's not quite right, And

434
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 3: what the source really means is I disagree with that

435
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 3: a little bit, and they can disagree with that, but

436
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,480
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean that what you wrote was necessarily wrong, right.

437
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 1: And I do think though with so much of the stuff,

438
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: like I mean, one of the fundamental anxieties of the

439
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: Trump error is that if a mistake is made, like

440
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 1: a good faith error, there's a lot of this stuff

441
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: is very complicated, especially when it comes to like stuff

442
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: like the documents, right, Like let's even talk about like

443
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 1: you know, there the Washington Post had this is a

444
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 1: while ago, had had said that Trump had nuclear documents,

445
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 1: but the Times did not say that because they couldn't

446
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 1: run it down and they didn't want to take the chance.

447
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,120
Speaker 1: And then eventually it did turn out, but they were

448
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 1: being super careful. Do you see that kind of thing?

449
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: I mean, do you have that kind of anxiety, because

450
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 1: I do feel like one of the things that Trump

451
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 1: did and that trump iss did was that, you know,

452
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: an error, they would sort of blow it up into

453
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 1: some kind of conscious fake news, as opposed to like,

454
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: people are fallible.

455
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, people are fallible, and I think, I mean Trump

456
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 3: would do that. Trump also lied constantly about almost eighty

457
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 3: I once put together a list and I couldn't keep

458
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 3: it updated. I mean I had hundreds of items. I mean,

459
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 3: he just lied constantly. He doesn't seem to care whether

460
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 3: what he's saying is the truth. If saying the truth

461
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,360
Speaker 3: benefits him, he'll say the truth, and if lying benefits him,

462
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 3: he'll lie. And so I do think the Trump era

463
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 3: made a lot of you know, made it harder sometimes

464
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 3: to think about the idea of truth. I would encourage

465
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 3: people on the other side of the political spectrum, progressives

466
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 3: also to be careful with this, because I think we've

467
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 3: gotten to the point where a lot of progressives will

468
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 3: call a wide array of things that they disagree with misinformation.

469
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 3: And I think you really want to use words like

470
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 3: I just use lies to describe Donald Trump, because I

471
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 3: do think but there are many things that I disagree

472
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 3: with that. I don't think are misinformation, and I worry

473
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 3: that while the Republican Party certainly lies more often than

474
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 3: the Democratic Party in recent years, that doesn't mean that

475
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 3: people on the left half of the political spectrum are infallible.

476
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 3: And so, for example, to take an example from COVID,

477
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 3: I think it's misinformation to say that vaccines don't work.

478
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 3: I say, say, is a fair argument about whether mask

479
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 3: mandates work or don't work. I have my own view

480
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,719
Speaker 3: of it, but I don't think either. I don't think

481
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 3: it is misinformation to say mask mandates work, and I

482
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 3: don't think it's misinformation to say mask mandates don't work.

483
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 3: And I don't think we should take either philosophical debates

484
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: or matters of opinion or cases where the ebbit and

485
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 3: say that our opponents are engaging in misinformation. I think

486
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 3: that's really dangerous.

487
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: I agree. On the Internet, I don't know if you

488
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: know about this thing the internet, people are still fighting

489
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: about mask mandates and vaccine mandates. I was in the

490
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: COVID vaccine trials. I am not an anti vaxxer by

491
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: any stretch the imagination, but like you know, I'll probably

492
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: have another shot in the fall when I get my

493
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: flu shot. But you know, I'm perfectly healthy. I've had

494
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 1: COVID twice. I've been totally fine. I mean, I'm not

495
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 1: on some like a desperate quest to get vaccinated every

496
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: four days. And yet there still is a section of

497
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 1: the population that is like, I mean, are we just

498
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 1: so traumatized from the experience of living through a pandemic

499
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: that people just have to fight with each other about

500
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: this or is there like some underlying thing.

501
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 3: Well, I think there's a little bit of un our

502
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 3: link thing. But I think you just hit the nail

503
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 3: on the head. We are still traumatized by the pandemic,

504
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 3: and that's to be expected. It has changed daily life

505
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 3: in the way that nothing has, certainly since World War Two.

506
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 3: And an example I use a lot is I'm a

507
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 3: New Yorker. I was in New York on nine to eleven.

508
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 3: It was worse than anything that I'd ever seen or

509
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 3: going through. So in no way am I minimizing it.

510
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 3: I'm just stating a fact, which is, for anyone who

511
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 3: was not directly infected by it, if you did not

512
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 3: have a relative who was killed, your life was back

513
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 3: to something that looked like normal within I don't know.

514
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 3: Two weeks, even in New York, three weeks you were

515
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 3: going back to the office. Daily rituals were the same.

516
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 3: COVID permanently, in all likelihood change our lives.

517
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: We don't go to the office anymore. People don't go

518
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: to the office anymore.

519
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 3: Right, And not only that, but it killed vast numbers

520
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 3: of people, and it had terrible side effects. I mean,

521
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 3: we have never had as damaging an event to American

522
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: education as COVID.

523
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 4: And also life expectancies went down, and life expectance, So

524
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 4: when you think about what COVID itself did in terms

525
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 4: of the direct toll of the pandemic, and then whether

526
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 4: you think that these were good policies or not, when

527
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 4: you think about the horrible toll of our pandemic precautions

528
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 4: like closing schools, we haven't been through anything this terrible

529
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 4: or disruptive in our lives.

530
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 3: And when you combine that with the terrible degree of

531
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 3: political polarization that we have in society, I think that

532
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 3: explains why. I mean, look, most people are just over COVID.

533
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 3: They're like done with it, They're not going to write

534
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: about it. But I think that explains why you still

535
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 3: see some of this intensity around.

536
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that makes a lot of sense. And

537
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 1: it's funny because it's like, so after nine to eleven.

538
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: I grew up in New York, and I was in

539
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: New York at nine to eleven. I was twenty one,

540
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: and right after I flew to do Oprah with my

541
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: mom and we flew to Chicago over the smoldering It

542
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: was October over the smoldering wreckage of the World Trade Center.

543
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it just forever affected me, but it is

544
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: true we did go back to normal life quite soon

545
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: after that.

546
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, COVID really will shape I assume it'll shape our lives.

547
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess at this one I should say

548
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 3: I hope nothing else shapes our lives as much as COVID.

549
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I remember around that time, I had

550
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: Paul Krugman on the podcast, and I asked him if

551
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: he thought that COVID would shape our economy because we

552
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: lost a million people and then we have these untold

553
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: numbers of people of long COVID. So, I mean, I

554
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 1: guess it's too soon to really know what those numbers are,

555
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: but you could see that happening.

556
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that explains why we still see some

557
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: fights over it. But you know, look, we see fights

558
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,479
Speaker 3: over nearly every major subject in American life, so why

559
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 3: should COVID be any different.

560
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: It's true, it feels very real to me right now

561
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: because since Fauci retired, this sort of anti vax crew,

562
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: which has a lot of and I don't even know

563
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: why they're anti vacs at this point, right, I mean,

564
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: do it two years ago. But there are a lot

565
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: of tech billionaires who are very involved in this whatever,

566
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: and they're all sort of targeting Peter Hotez, who you know,

567
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: is just a deer man. So it's gotten me very

568
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: it feels very fresh right now. So I want to

569
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: talk to you about where we are right now with

570
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: this Republican primary. I mean, I always feel like, because

571
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: I'm on the opinion side, I'm really lucky because I

572
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: never have to you know, I can just have an opinion.

573
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: But like, to cover politics right now in such a

574
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: fraud time in a straight way has to be really tricky.

575
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, I'm not out on the campaign trail.

576
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 3: I may sometimes go out on it toward the end. Look,

577
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 3: I think it's clearly changed. I mean, even setting aside Trump,

578
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 3: you know, Ron DeSantis basically doesn't give interviews to anyone

579
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: from whom he thinks he might get skeptical questions. You know,

580
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 3: that's very different from the past, both Republican and Democratic administrations.

581
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 3: I mean, I you know, I wrote something that the

582
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 3: Bush administration didn't like. They asked me to come in

583
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 3: and we had this you know, great this is years ago,

584
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,719
Speaker 3: and we had this kind of great debate about it,

585
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 3: and they said some things that changed my view, and

586
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 3: I told them that I still had continued up the

587
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: basic view I have. And you know, I interviewed John

588
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 3: McCain and Met Romney on the campaign trail in two

589
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 3: thousand and eight, and so no, I mean, the polarization

590
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 3: of society really has affected the way we cover presidential

591
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: campaigns in and I think damaging ways. It's not the

592
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 3: biggest problem in media. The biggest problem in media is

593
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 3: the decline of local media. I think overall, our national

594
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 3: media is relatively healthy, even if it's somewhat polarized, and

595
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 3: even if the problem of the spread of actual misinformation

596
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 3: is a problem.

597
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,719
Speaker 1: And it's not the same as sort of things that

598
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: are not necessarily that feel incorrect.

599
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think where are we in the

600
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 3: campaign at this point, like I really thought DeSantis, when

601
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: Dessanta seemed to be closing the gap with the Trump

602
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 3: I took that seriously. I think that could happen again.

603
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 3: There's a long way to go. If you go back

604
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 3: to the Obama Clinton primary, there were multiple times in

605
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 3: the odd numbered year, which then was two thousand and

606
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 3: seven and now is twenty twenty three week when it

607
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: just looked like Obama was just done. I mean, you

608
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: can go back and read people writing his political obituary.

609
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 3: Why isn't he cutting into Clinton the lead and basically

610
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 3: every major publication, including the New York Times, And the

611
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 3: answer was, well, it's a long campaign and he wasn't

612
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 3: destined to win, but he did. And I think similarly

613
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 3: this time Trump really does have some weaknesses the legal cases.

614
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 3: But at this point, I think you just have to

615
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 3: say that Trump is the overwhelming favorite to get the

616
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 3: Republican nomination, and although if he does, his odds of

617
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 3: winning are serious, but you also would clearly go into

618
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 3: it as the underdog against bind.

619
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: But why do you think, DeSantis, Because you're the first

620
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: person to say this to me. I mean, I certainly

621
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: think it's a crowded field, but I'm just curious why

622
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: you think that there might be more to DeSantis. I mean,

623
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: he definitely is the favorite for people who are smart Trumpers,

624
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: but I'm just curious. I mean, I think he entered

625
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: in stronger than other Republicans, but I feel like the

626
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: more we get to know him, the less he sort

627
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: of has the appeal. But he does have. He is

628
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: the Trumpiest.

629
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 3: I think that he's still the strongest other than Trump,

630
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 3: and the polls, he's still the strongest in terms of

631
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 3: elite support, probably even stronger than in terms of sun raising.

632
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 3: And so if you go back and you say, and

633
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 3: I understand, history is not you know, is not guaranteed

634
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 3: to repeat itself. There is never a candidate like Trump

635
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: a good precedent, but it's a good precedent at this

636
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,479
Speaker 3: stage in the campaign. Is there anyone who looks like

637
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,239
Speaker 3: say Tim Scott or Nikky Haley or Mike Pence in

638
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: terms of polling and money and endorsements And by all

639
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 3: that I mean polling weakness, lack of money, lack of endorsement. Right, yes,

640
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 3: ever gotten the nomination like maybe Jimmy Carter in seventy six.

641
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 3: That's the thing. There wasn't either a Trump or a

642
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 3: DeSantis in that race, and Dessantas still does look like

643
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 3: some people who've kind of come back to get the nomination,

644
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 3: like Obama, and just in terms of the polling and stuff. Again,

645
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 3: I'm not predicting that. I think I do not think

646
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 3: it most likely scenario.

647
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: You think the most likely scenario is still Trump.

648
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: I think the most likely scenario is still Trump. And

649
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 3: quite frankly, if you told me that the nominee was

650
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 3: neither Trump nor DeSantis, I gotta say I might pick someone.

651
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 3: And you told me that I either had to pick

652
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: one of the other people who's announced or pick the field.

653
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 3: I take the field to me. It's something weird where

654
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 3: like the indictments and the trials cause a whole big mess,

655
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 3: and you know, someone like Glenn Youngkin gets in the

656
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: race really late. I don't see Pence or Scott or

657
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 3: Haley or help me Molly, who are all ruscer names.

658
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 3: I don't see any of the promination yeah, or Rick Scott.

659
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: Even it's funny because it's like if you were worried,

660
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: and my anxiety is largely like because I have children,

661
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: is like authoritarianism comes to the United States, right, So

662
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: if that's your anxiety. Then the worst candidate is trump

663
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: Ism without Trump, which would be obviously DeSantis. But it

664
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: seems to me like just as we watch this process,

665
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: then it's actually lesser. Trump Ism is not how it's

666
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: gonna you know, it'll either be Trump or it'll be

667
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: the party having some kind of seizure and deciding finally

668
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: that that's not what they want.

669
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, my colleague is Staid Herndon. He made

670
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: this point that changed the way I think about it

671
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 3: Donald Trump, and I hesitate to say this, but there's

672
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 3: a fun aspect to him as a political candidate for

673
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 3: people who don't focus so much on matters of substance,

674
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: like if you don't care that much about politics, and

675
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 3: many Americans do not like you know, he's a showman,

676
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: like it's outrageous, you're never sure what's going to happen.

677
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 3: And I do think for some number of voters they

678
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 3: kind of like that. And I mean, Ron DeSantis is

679
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 3: many things. I don't think. Fun is a work that

680
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: almost anyone would use to describe him, including many of

681
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 3: his fans. And I do think it's a little bit

682
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 3: hard to completely unpack what makes Trump so appealing to

683
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 3: Republicans and then put it back together in some incomplete way.

684
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: We find ourselves in a situation of these. You know,

685
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: is charismatic presidential candidate? I mean, as a Democrat, I

686
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: have seen that my party run more than a few

687
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: candidates where you know, every said, well, charisma. People don't

688
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: really vote on charisma like obviously they do. Yeah, And

689
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: if John Decaucus, if you're listening to this, I'm sorry,

690
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: and I treasure you as a friend. But your dad

691
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 1: he couldn't be president because he just didn't have it. Sorry,

692
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: I can't be mean to Mike Decaucus. There's a new

693
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 1: rule on this podcast.

694
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 3: Those things matter. I mean, it makes me wonder. Boy,

695
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 3: the stakes are so high, shouldn't the parties probably be

696
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 3: investing a little bit more in the personal side of

697
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,919
Speaker 3: candidate development. I mean, there's just a fascinating poll done

698
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 3: by the Center for Working Class Politics in which they

699
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 3: gave swingers a bunch of candidate profiles. And it's not

700
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: exactly shocking, but people would rather have their candidates be

701
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: teachers and nurses and warehouse workers and doctors, so it's

702
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 3: not all, you know, blue collar stuff. They would rather

703
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 3: not have them be lawyers or big company executives, and

704
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 3: they're all kinds of things that people vote on, and

705
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,479
Speaker 3: it sort of feels like the political system hasn't yet

706
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 3: optimized some of the ways in whichiving elections.

707
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: It's not all about polpsy.

708
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: David, thank you so much for joining us. It's so interesting.

709
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: I hope you will come back.

710
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 3: I definitely will.

711
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

712
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 3: Mollie.

713
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: Hi, it's Mollie and I am wildly excited that for

714
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: the first time, Fast Politics, the show you're listening to

715
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: right now, is going to have merch for sale over

716
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: at shop dot fastpoliticspod dot com. You can now buy shirts, hats, hoodies,

717
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Speaker 1: and toe bags with our incredible designs. We've heard your

718
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 1: cries to spread the word about our podcast and get

719
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: a tow bag with my adorable Leo the Rescue Puppy

720
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: on it. And now you can grab this merchandise only

721
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: at shop dot fast It takes pod dot com. Thanks

722
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: for your support. Rachel Hunt is a member of the

723
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: North Carolina State Senate and a candidate for Lieutenant governor. There.

724
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Rachel Hunt.

725
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 5: Thank you.

726
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 3: I'm happy to be here.

727
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: We're delighted to have you. So you are a state

728
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: Senator in North Carolina and you are running for lieutenant governor.

729
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: Talk to me about what that means and why you're

730
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: doing that.

731
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 5: Sure well, I was raised in North Carolina. I love

732
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 5: the state, and I refuse to sit back and watch

733
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 5: as extremists try to move the state I love backwards.

734
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 5: I've spent my whole life serving here, both in and

735
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 5: out of elected office. Before that, I ran a domestic

736
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 5: violent shelter, I practiced family law, I served on the

737
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 5: board of my son's public charter school. And I've had

738
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 5: the honor of representing my community in the State House

739
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 5: and now the State Senate.

740
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 3: As a mother.

741
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,439
Speaker 5: I'm running to build a North Carolina that families want

742
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 5: to raise their children in, one where an honest day

743
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 5: of hard work pays off and there are good paying

744
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 5: jobs that will keep our young people heal. We need

745
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 5: a North Carolina where everyone can make their own decisions

746
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 5: and kids can get a world class public education. I'm

747
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 5: running to ensure that working North Carolinians from every part

748
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 5: of the state have a seat at the table. So

749
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 5: if you're with me, please join me at Rachel Hunt

750
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 5: dot com.

751
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: So right now you do have a democratic governor. That's correct,

752
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: but you also have a very powerful Republican state government

753
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: and that has led to a lot of stuff. Can

754
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about the landscape of North Carolina.

755
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 5: Yes, So we are unfortunately in the super minority in

756
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 5: both the House and the Senate, which obviously makes the

757
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 5: governor's vetos able to be over at which they have

758
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,240
Speaker 5: been and they will continue to be, which is making

759
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 5: us into a completely republican state. And the issues that

760
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 5: the Republicans are pushing, especially with regards to women's rights

761
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 5: and the rights of children, are completely unacceptable and we

762
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:16,919
Speaker 5: have to fight against them.

763
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: Those are like a statewide abortion ban, right, yes, absolutely,

764
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 1: and what else?

765
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 5: So other things are partisan jerry mandarin that's a huge

766
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 5: thing in our state. And we just lost our Supreme

767
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 5: Court as well to the Republicans, so now they have

768
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 5: ruled that jerrymandering is allowed in North Carolina. So we

769
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 5: are going back in September to redraw all the districts,

770
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 5: and we will lose all of the Democratic congressional seats

771
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 5: that we had except for possibly two.

772
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 3: So even though our state is basically fifty to.

773
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 5: Fifty, we will end up with ten or eleven congressional Republicans.

774
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 5: And it's the same for the State House and sidate strips.

775
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 5: Wait why because they know, they meaning the Republicans know

776
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 5: the only way they can continue to win is by cheating,

777
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 5: and cheating is through gerrymandering. And they know that people

778
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 5: are not behind the way they value things, especially this

779
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 5: abortion ban, and that if people had one vote for

780
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 5: each person that in a non gerrymandered situation, they would

781
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 5: all lose their seats.

782
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: So what happens now, I mean, is there anything to

783
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: do with this gerrymandering or is it really unfitsable?

784
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 5: Well, the gerrymandering situation is very difficult because you know,

785
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court is not up for re election this year.

786
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 5: That's several more years until we can get those people

787
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 5: out of office. What were you're going to have to

788
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,439
Speaker 5: do is fight like we've never fought before and make

789
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 5: sure people overwhelmingly come out to vote.

790
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 3: Because if we can.

791
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 5: Get every single unaffiliated and Democrat to vote, we can

792
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 5: be them. And that is what we have to do.

793
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 5: We have to make sure people understand their lives are

794
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 5: at stake and their livelihoods with things like the income

795
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 5: tax being got rid of, the corporate income tax in

796
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 5: North Carolina, people will pay for that. Women will die

797
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 5: because of the abortion band and the things about trans

798
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 5: children in sports and otherwise will also result in suicide

799
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 5: rates of those children going by.

800
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: And so tell me, how are you running in your

801
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: state and what does that look like?

802
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 5: So I, you know, started in twenty eighteen when I

803
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 5: won a House district. I won one that was an

804
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 5: R plus nine district Trump won by nine percentage points

805
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 5: in twenty sixteen, and so I have been able to

806
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 5: fight and.

807
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 3: Win in districts like that.

808
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 5: And the way I do it is going door to door,

809
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 5: making sure I talk to every single person. And I

810
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 5: got Republican votes that year too, and making sure we

811
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 5: get our message out to this year, women especially in

812
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 5: suburban areas are very very angry, and they are not

813
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 5: going to take what is being done to them in

814
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,240
Speaker 5: North Carolina sitting down, and they will come out and vote.

815
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 5: So we just have to make sure they know who

816
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 5: to vote for, what the issues are besides abortion, and

817
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 5: that they have to vote because we also have some

818
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 5: issues that we just passed to make voting more difficult.

819
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: Right, you talk to us about that.

820
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 5: Yes, if you try to do a mail in ballot,

821
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 5: which became extremely popular during the pandemic. They have cut

822
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 5: off the number of days that they will allow it

823
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,479
Speaker 5: to be received. They are going to now have more

824
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 5: stringent things with you know, signatures that have to match

825
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 5: two factor authentication, which is not use anywhere else in

826
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 5: the country. You know, they're also making it more difficult

827
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 5: if you want to register and vote on the same day,

828
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 5: which we know that is disproportionately affects minority people and

829
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 5: students because they know the only way they can win

830
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 5: is by cheating, and this is just another way to

831
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 5: do that.

832
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, talk to me about what that looks like with

833
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: the voting, what will happen on the ground.

834
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 5: So we have got to have people out right now.

835
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 5: First of all, getting people their IDs that this is

836
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 5: the first year that goes into effect having to have

837
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 5: an ID. We have not given extra money to the

838
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 5: Bory of Elections. We hope in the final budget they

839
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 5: will get some extra money. But other people are going

840
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 5: to have to pick up the slack, including campaigns to

841
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 5: make sure people understand the rules. And we also just

842
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 5: have to make sure people come out and vote in person.

843
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 5: You know, we have early voting here, so that's what

844
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 5: they need to do.

845
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: So early voting is still okay, but mail in voting

846
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: they've made it harder again.

847
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 5: That's right, that's right. And if your mail in vote

848
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 5: doesn't count and is turned into a provisional ballot, it

849
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 5: will be much harder to cure that, especially if you're

850
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 5: not able to drive or in some other situation like that.

851
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: Right, while we're here, just a little bit more about

852
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: what it would mean to have a democratic lieutenant governor

853
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: in North Carolina.

854
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 5: Having a Democratic governor and a female Democratic governor North

855
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 5: Carolina would be great.

856
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: We've only had.

857
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,879
Speaker 5: One other female Democratic lieutenant governor in history, and we

858
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,280
Speaker 5: know the value of having women at the decision making table.

859
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 5: As lieutenant governor, i will preside over the state Senate

860
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 5: and I'll be in the room with the governor helping

861
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 5: to make critical decisions. We have to have a strong

862
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 5: democratic governor, lieutenant governor, and attorney general at the helm

863
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 5: to fight for our rights and make sure that North

864
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 5: Carolina's women and workers are at the forefront of our priorities.

865
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: Why do you think North Carolina has been so beguiling

866
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: for Democrats? I mean, I think a lot of people

867
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: would have said that it seemed more likely you'd see

868
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: a slipped North Carolina. Before you'd see a flipped Georgia.

869
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: But here we are. I mean, why do you think

870
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: it's been so beguiling for us?

871
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 5: I think the jerrymandering issue is one of the reasons.

872
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 5: You know, we started that in North Carolina. We were

873
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 5: the first state to really be very good at jerrymandering

874
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 5: and to do it to an extreme degree. And so

875
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 5: that's set up, you know, starting in twenty ten when

876
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 5: the Republicans took over the state legislature. That has set

877
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 5: up this entire time that they have been in control

878
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 5: of the legislature over ten years now. And because they

879
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 5: were able to control the district lines, you know, and

880
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 5: make people's voats count less than they should fully in

881
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 5: a democracy, they have been able to hold onto power.

882
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 5: But you know, we are starting to chip away. We

883
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 5: won a state House seat in an exurban county, which

884
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 5: is exactly what we are going to work on.

885
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 2: Now.

886
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 5: We know that in the counties that are right outside

887
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 5: of the cities in North Carolina, people are ready to

888
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 5: make changes. They may have moved here. We have one

889
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 5: hundred people a day that move into Charlotte. They don't

890
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 5: under stand that Republicans in North Carolina are not the

891
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 5: same as Republicans in New York or Massachusetts, and once

892
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 5: they find out, they are willing and ready to vote

893
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 5: the right way for the Democrats.

894
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: Here we are in this off year. What do you

895
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 1: think the people in North Carolina are looking for for candidates,

896
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: what do they want to see from Biden in this

897
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 1: presidential What do you think the ethos is in your state?

898
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: And how do you think Democrats could win in the

899
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: twenty four Well.

900
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 5: I think we win by meeting people where they are

901
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 5: talking about issues that they care about. My dad was

902
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 5: governor in the state for sixteen years. He had people

903
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 5: from every background that supported him. He was able to

904
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 5: get an incredible amount of things done by Republicans and

905
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 5: Democrats working together. And that's because, you know, we talked

906
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 5: about things that are that are important to us, things

907
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 5: like quality and affordable health care, fully funding our public schools,

908
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 5: supporting family farmers, bringing jobs to the state, keeping communities safe.

909
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 5: None of these are partisan. They appeal to everyone, and

910
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 5: those are the issues that should be a top priority

911
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 5: for all of us. That is what my campaign is doing.

912
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 5: We are building a grassroots movement in every single up

913
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 5: the one hundred counties and it'll be a platform for

914
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 5: the issues that North Carolinians care about. They do not

915
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 5: care about these social issues that the Republicans are trying

916
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 5: to push. Those are just red flags. They are meaningless.

917
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 5: They are not what people care about. And we have

918
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 5: to keep the attention on the issues people care about

919
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 5: and make sure that they understand we are the party,

920
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 5: we are the people, We are the candidates who are

921
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:41,919
Speaker 5: going to help them.

922
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 1: Do you still think that Trump has a real kind

923
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: of base in North Carolina?

924
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 5: I would say he still has about thirty percent of

925
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 5: the people that are Republican that support him.

926
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 1: Yes, from what you're sort of seeing on the ground

927
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: in North Carolina, do they seem angrier or do they

928
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: seem like they've sort of are of living with the

929
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: defeat of trump Ism? Or do you think they think

930
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: their guy's going to win next time?

931
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 2: Oh?

932
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 5: No, they think their guy's going to win. They are

933
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 5: fully in that world. They have all pledged allegiance to him.

934
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 5: They think that they're going to be able to do

935
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 5: exactly what they did last time when he won, and

936
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 5: they think he's going to win.

937
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: There's no moment of reflection or anything.

938
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 3: Absolutely not.

939
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 5: If they had a moment of reflection, they would not

940
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 5: be able to pass these laws at their passing.

941
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: When voters talk to you, I mean, what are the

942
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: things they're the most concerned was.

943
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 5: They are concerned with their children being safe at school,

944
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 5: They are concerned with their children's education. They are concerned

945
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 5: with healthcare. Women, as I've said before, women on the doorsteps.

946
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 5: When I was knocking doors last year for my state

947
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 5: senate race women over seventy would actually break down in

948
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 5: tears to talk and talk to me about when they

949
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 5: fought for the right to have abortion in the state

950
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,919
Speaker 5: and in this country, and how happy they were when

951
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 5: Roby Waite was passed, and how devastated they are with

952
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 5: the Dobbs decision.

953
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I continue to think Dobbs is a much bigger

954
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: deal than even now it's being painted as I do too.

955
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 5: And you know, our ban goes into effect July first,

956
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 5: and once that happens, people are really going to see

957
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 5: this is not just about abortion. This is about health care.

958
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 5: If you are pregnant and you have a very bad situation,

959
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 5: you need to get kidder and the doctors are going

960
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 5: to leave.

961
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 3: They're going to leave the state.

962
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: Well, and also the doctors don't want to lose their licenses,

963
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: right exactly, and I don't blame them. Yeah, I'm so

964
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: delighted to have you. So when is your tell us

965
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 1: when your election is?

966
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 5: So the primary is March eight. I do have one

967
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 5: premier opponent. I hope that he drops out, but we'll see.

968
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,399
Speaker 5: We can do it either way. And then of course

969
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 5: the election is in November.

970
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: Great. Thank you so much for joining us.

971
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 3: We're so welcome.

972
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 5: It was my pleasure. And anyone who us to go

973
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 5: to about website Rachel Hunt dot com please do.

974
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon, Maley.

975
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 2: Jung, Fast the Money Honey, Maria Barceromo, and Senator Marshall

976
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 2: Blackburn there sounded like Alex Jones to me.

977
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: It's all The idea here is that Biden orchestrated a

978
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: coup was on Putin to distract from Hunter Biden's laptop.

979
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: That's really what it is. And I just want to

980
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 1: say that if Biden could organize a coup to remove

981
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,760
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin, I don't think he's gonna the dumbest people

982
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: saying the dumbest things. Congratulations, Fox News, you've done it again.

983
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics Tune in

984
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds

985
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

986
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

987
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.