1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: It seems like hardly a month goes by where we 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: are not bombarded with horrific images of far ride violence, 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: mass shootings, the target synagogues, black churches, and queer nightclubs, 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: death threats to hospitals, spurred by post from online trolls, 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: and a barrage of fascist groups attempting to intimidate everyone 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: and everything. From children's events, black Lives Matter protests, pride celebrations, 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: and abortion clinics. Boden resistance is mobilized and people do 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: push back. The media often frames these confrontations is a 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: clash simply between two sets of extremists. On today's shows, 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: the It's Going Down crew once again takes over it 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: could happen. Here we look at how far from being 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: just confined to small sets of antifas super soldiers, mass 13 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: community self defense is part and parcel to the DNA 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: of grassroots movements for liberation in the so called United States. 15 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: We can see this throughout the ongoing history of indigenous 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: resistance to callization. In the fight against slavery and racial apartheid. 17 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: Radical labor unions such as the i w W organized 18 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: against the Ku Klux Klan, attention that even led to 19 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: running gun battles, while militant organizers like Robert F. Williams 20 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 1: and groups such as the Deacons for Defense, who helped 21 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: inspire the Black Panthers, fought back against white racist mobs. 22 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: In the book This Non Violent Stuff Will Get You Killed, 23 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: author Charles E. Cobb documents this history, discussing the wide 24 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: use of arms and defending civil rights organizers from white supremacists. 25 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: Groups like Anti Racist Action or a r A carried 26 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: on this trajectory, working to set up chapters of organized 27 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: anti racists that confronted neo Nazi groups the Clan, and 28 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: participated in defense of abortion clinics. Once again, I'm Mike Andrews, 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: Let's get into it. In two thousand five, in the 30 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: wake of Hurricane Katrina, the levy surrounding New Orleans broke, 31 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: flooding working class communities and homes. Those that could evacuate fled, 32 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: while many, often pouring black, were stuck behind to fend 33 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: for themselves. Stepping into this setting was a group of 34 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: black liberation and anarchist activists who worked to set up 35 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: mutual aid hubs and free clinics dubbed Common Ground. But 36 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: as these volunteers worked to feed people, restore people's homes, 37 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: and provide free medical care. They quickly found that they 38 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: weren't the only organized force on the streets of New Orleans. 39 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: In this following interview, Sunseri Ali Shakur discusses how the 40 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: group came up against and defended themselves from a formation 41 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 1: of armed racist white vigilantees who worked directly with local 42 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: police and our suspected of carrying out multiple murders of 43 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: unarmed black men. A warning. However, this interview was graphic 44 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: in details death, racist violence, and anti black racism. My 45 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: name is s I'm organized out of Wasson and d C. 46 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: I went to New Orleans UH doing Katraina, doing the 47 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: Katraina after Math, and I helped form co co found 48 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: Common Ground Relief and common Ground was formed as a 49 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: response to the calamity of Katraina and UM. Common Ground 50 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: was also the brainchild of the Angle of Three, so 51 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the base organizers of Common Ground were 52 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: already in New Orleans. UH organized and helped the Angola Three. 53 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: So the Angle of Three was basically the god fathers 54 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: of Common Ground Ground Relief. We lost a few of 55 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: the of the elders, Alfred Wood Fox and such and 56 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: we still got King uh King, what is and everything? 57 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: A note to our listeners. Of three referred to here 58 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: is a group of formally incarcerated black political prisoners and 59 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: members of the Black Parentther Party when the nineteen seventies 60 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: were imprisoned in the notorious Angola Facility in Louisiana. This 61 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: included Robert Hillary King, Albert Wood Fox, and Hermann Wallace. 62 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: King was released in two thousand one, and, along with 63 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: another former Black panther, Malik Raheem, became involved in mutual 64 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: aid and disaster relief efforts in New Orleans following Katrina 65 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: in two thousand five under the banner of common ground. 66 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: Wallace was released from prison on October one, only to 67 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: pass away sadly three days later, a day after being 68 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: reindited by the state. Albert Wood Fox was finally released 69 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: in February of two thousand sixteen and passed on six 70 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: years later due to complications from COVID nineteen tireless activists 71 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: on both sides of the prison walls. Together, the angal 72 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: of three endured a combined total of one fourteen years 73 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: in solitary confinement. Yeah, my job, when I when I 74 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: touched down the common ground was basically I was a 75 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: released scout UM. I wore many hats, I was a 76 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: mediation person, head of security UM. And I also organized 77 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: about seven UM makeshift hurricane distribution UH centers from New 78 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: Orleans to the Bayou. And I spent eighteen months there 79 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: and children's free breakfast program. Anything that the community needed, 80 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, I provided. I used to drive like fourteen 81 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: hundred miles a week taking supplies from New Orleans UH 82 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: into different bious and different surrounding areas in New Orleans. 83 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: That was my my job. When I first got there, 84 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: I ran into Malink Rahim, a former black pather in 85 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: New Orleans, Scutive Minister of Defense, and when I touched down, 86 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: he had told me that there were a group of 87 00:05:55,360 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: white vigilantees, up to eighteen of them, riding around and 88 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: murdering black people as they walked through these white communities 89 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: and Algiers and Algier Point. Algiers wasn't affected by water, 90 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 1: but it did have a great deal of wind damage. 91 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: Most of the houses was intact, it just wasn't no 92 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: electricity and the water was also a problem. Well, what 93 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: they would do they would tie UH cans from one 94 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: fence to another beginning of the neighborhood of the street. 95 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: And if they were in their homes and uh, you 96 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: bumped in, you know, you you try to get up 97 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: under the cans, and the cans started ringing. They would 98 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: open up windows and and and begin u fire at you. 99 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: And they were jumping their pickup trucks and chase you down. 100 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: And some uh you know, some are murdered, you know, 101 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: point blank. And those whom they wounded, they were throwing 102 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: the back of the truck. Take to a garage and 103 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: pour gasoline over your wounds, put cigarettes out on you. 104 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: And uh, some didn't make it out that situation. They, 105 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: like I said, they dropped about courting and information we got. 106 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: They dropped nineteen and some black men and the brothers 107 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: in the community got tired of of of these guys 108 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: and they broke into a pawn shop and stole all 109 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: the guns out the pown shop. And there was about 110 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: to be a major race war. And um, you gotta 111 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:31,119 Speaker 1: understand too, how tight the situation was because their base, 112 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: their house the day they hung out at their backyard 113 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: connected with our backyard, so it was extremely tense. So 114 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: when the brothers broke into the pond shop and got 115 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: the weapons out. Just so happened. The next day the 116 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: National Guards showed up. But if the National Guard didn't 117 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: show up the next day, it would have been extremely 118 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: ugly out there. Uh and everything. And yeah, they used 119 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: to patrol the streets and the pickup trucks. We would 120 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: see them all the time. I would see them all 121 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: the time, and they were cowards, man, you know, they 122 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: would tender one. It's always tender one. You know. Ten 123 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: vigilante is the one black man, unharmed black man. But 124 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: we noticed one they would drive by. We would come 125 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: out with our weapons on our hips and let them 126 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: know that this ain't no place to mess with. Keep driving. 127 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. You will be fired upon 128 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: you come here with that business. And I would have 129 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: to set up patrols for our house at night. Um, 130 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: I would sleep uh in the hallway and malaks home 131 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: with a nominal of me to car being rifle strapped 132 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: across my chest in a radio column, so I could 133 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,599 Speaker 1: keep in contact with the others who were unarmed and 134 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: doing patrols, you know, watching the house while the other 135 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: thirty six volunteers have slept intense in the backyard. You know, 136 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: we're asleep. Lucky for us. They were a bunch of 137 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 1: cowards and they kept it moving. I would see them 138 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: all the time, and they were they were afraid of 139 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: me because they knew that I was not afraid of them, 140 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: and I was armed, and uh we all when we 141 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: had a few people back at the house that was 142 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: armed as well. You could ride down certain streets and 143 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: there will be uh dead bodies that were bloated, uh 144 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: from being left out in the sun. And uh those 145 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: bodies were left by the vigilantees. The rumor was that 146 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,719 Speaker 1: the do on the police department told the vigilantes. We 147 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: gave the vigilantes a green light to do what they 148 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: needed to do and as far as the bodies, just 149 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: leave them near the gutter and they would come and 150 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: collect them later, which they didn't. The bodies stayed out there, 151 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,599 Speaker 1: I would say up to two months, you know you. 152 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: I mean, they were like you can see them all 153 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: the time, and um, there a lot of people had left. 154 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: There wasn't a lot of people there because people had evacuated, 155 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,359 Speaker 1: a lot of stray dogs running around out uh impacts 156 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: of thirty And what we would have to do is 157 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: get up early in the morning when the curfew was over. 158 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: Take bids she's from Malink's mother's room, and go out 159 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 1: and wrap up the bodies with these sheets. Keep the 160 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: dogs from ripping them open for fluid and food. Reporting 161 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: In the Nation of Republica, investigative journalists A. C. Thompson 162 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: spent months speaking with survivors of Katrina about a racist 163 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: militia that formed in the predominantly white neighborhood of Algiers Point. 164 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: He carried out a series of deadly shootings and even 165 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: worked directly with local law enforcement. White residents told investigators 166 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: the police had given them a green light to shoot 167 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: anyone quote breaking into their property into quote leave the 168 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: bodies on the side of the road. Others spoke of 169 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: a free for all of white against black, where whites 170 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,479 Speaker 1: condulged in violence with compunity. Years later, several white vigilantings 171 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: were found guilty were sentenced to prison time for shootings 172 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: and murder. And like many modern conspiracy theories pushed by 173 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: the far right about and BLM during the George Foight Uprising, 174 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,119 Speaker 1: the vigilantes and Eltiers Point were largely animated by widespread 175 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: racist rumors that weren't founded about looterers um we were 176 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: harassed a lot by the and OPD. You know a 177 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: lot of times at gunpoint. They would come to our 178 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: house sometimes, you know, ten cars DP, you know, p 179 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: D would looking for Malink. One night they came through 180 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: looking for Malink and what we had heard that they 181 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: were out to assassinate him and anybody with him. They 182 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: came out looking for Malink one night, about ten cars 183 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: D and they had went through the house looking for him, 184 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: and they couldn't find them. And they pulled out this 185 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: fourteen year old young man that we had befriended to 186 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: live on the backstreet for mLink and they started beating him, 187 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: saying that he has stole a cooler out somebody's yard 188 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: and minds you, you know, no one's there, so no 189 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: one's really missing that cool And the young man thought, 190 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, because we didn't have refrigeration and hadn't put 191 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: everything on ice. You know, ice was very important at 192 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: that time, and the water was very important, you know, 193 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: along with gasoline. But the young brother brought us a 194 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 1: cooler and the police put shot guards and everybody's stomachs 195 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: and they beat them in front of us and dared 196 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: us to do anything as far as like what the 197 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: environment looked like it was not and I say this, 198 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: it was not a rescue mission. This was seemed like 199 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: they were running a drill, a military drill, you know, 200 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: like the same hour, I mean, like the old project. 201 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: You will look at the bridge and you will see 202 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 1: continue with military cars going across the cresta city bridge 203 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: at nighttime. In four corners of the community. You would 204 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: have black Hawk helicopters patrolling. You know, they will follow 205 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: you through the yard with spotlights. Also, we had homeland security, 206 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: which included mercenaries. They were sometimes up to cars and 207 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: if you were to violate, uh, the curfew, they were 208 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: ride up on you and they had these little and 209 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: I used to have to interact with them because we 210 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: had some some some young people there that thought they 211 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: had privileged from up north would translate in New Orleans, 212 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: which it did not. Um, they've seen any white person 213 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: outside of New Orleans as a bunch of quote unquote 214 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: nigga levels. So I would have to negotiate with these 215 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: homeless security people. Um, you had to be very calm, 216 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: very still, because you could see the pupils that pupils 217 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: were dilated with small anybody that's been in the war 218 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: like Vietnam and such an Uh, there's a storm. They 219 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: know when these people, when pupils are dilated like that, 220 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: it means these people have killed several times. And the 221 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: my huncle used to call it a hundred miles there. 222 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: And you had to be very calm with these people 223 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: because if you flinched, if you did anything that they 224 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,599 Speaker 1: didn't like or they felt threatened in any type of way, 225 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: they will open up fire on you. Um. They were 226 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: They had a R fifteens all of them had a 227 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: R fIF teams and not milling meter strapped to their legs. 228 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: So it was more you know, it seemed more like 229 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: a military takeover, like I said before, than ar rescued 230 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: and further down the line. For in the months, you 231 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: had National guardsmen that opened fire on people, uh into 232 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: busy traffic. Um. You will find bodies in the seventh ward, 233 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: in the eighth ward in different houses, UH with bullets 234 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: in the back of their head, you know, executive style, 235 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: and UM our investigating team will go out and witness 236 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: this firsthand. And I was a part of that investigating 237 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: team that would do a walk through the house where 238 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: the body was at. It was shot in the back 239 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: of the head and the rumor was, you know, we 240 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: had some rogue National guardsmen executing you know, people who 241 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: didn't have homes. We're home some homeless people. You know, 242 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: they were left behind. Number one lesson I learned, umu 243 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: a trainer, was you may be a pacifist, but you 244 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: might need to pass and fists. You may need to 245 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: go out and get you firearms. Of course, we want 246 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: you to get proper training. Of course, we don't want 247 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: you to do anything illegal. Get your legal firearms and 248 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: get some training. The second lesson was that human beings 249 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: are incredible. We saw a lot of destruction, but we 250 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: also saw a lot of beauty and a lot of love. 251 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: In my experience too, we were common ground. People came 252 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: together in days and we fell in love with each 253 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: other within days. Because of the pressure of the situation. 254 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: If we didn't love each other, if we didn't get 255 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: along with one another, we had to, you know, in 256 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: order for survival. Things were so bad that if your 257 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: car had broken down on the side of the highway 258 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: on the road, you had to call us and five 259 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: different vehicles will be speeding to your location. Um you know, 260 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: to see who will get there first before Homeland security 261 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: or a vigilante group will roll up on you. You 262 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: can't rely on the state. Can't rely on the state. 263 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: Stay with us as it could happen. Here returns after 264 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: the short break and the word from our sponsors. The 265 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: same year that Sinceria was facing down armed racist vigilantes 266 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: in New Orleans, the stage was also set for an 267 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: uprising to kick off in Toledo, Ohio. In our next interview, 268 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: Tom tells us how a largely black community an intergists 269 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: affiliated with anti racist action hit the streets against the 270 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,479 Speaker 1: National Socialist Movement for the NSM and participated in uprising 271 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: to the sploded not just against the neo Nazis, but 272 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 1: the police that were protecting them as well. That Toledo 273 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: and to racism protests really began when a National Socialist 274 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: Movement member who was living in a black neighborhood in 275 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: Toledo pulled a gun on two black children that were 276 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: playing in the alley behind his house. Um those kids 277 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: then went home and told their parents. Their parents then 278 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 1: showed up to his house with weapons. The guy pulled 279 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: a gun on them and then called the National Socialist Movement, 280 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: who then showed up, and so they had been This 281 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: is back when Bill White was still the head of 282 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: ns M and NSM was actually starting to make some headway, 283 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: like they were growing really quickly. They targeted Ohio as 284 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: a recruiting ground um because they thought that they could 285 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: gain a lot of membership there. And so Toledo was 286 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: kind of their first foray into trying to do stuff 287 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: in Ohio. And so they announced a date and the 288 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: organizers on the ground and Toledo did something really interesting. 289 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: Then instead of organizing activists, they went and organized in 290 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: the community directly um that they were going around the 291 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: streets to talking to people. Street gangs were calling truces 292 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: for the day, right, And so when October fifteenth rolled around, 293 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: like everybody showed up, like there were anarchists there, but 294 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: there were like tons of people from the neighborhood there. 295 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: The whole protest didn't last very long. It was this 296 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: is October five they sort of NSM was there and 297 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: they had their shields and people were hooking stuff at them, 298 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: but they were kind of too far away to really 299 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: like hit. So the cops started surrounding them and allowing 300 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: them to mark and as they were marching, they got 301 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: within projectile range of people who then started pelting them 302 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: with everything that they could think of the cops and 303 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: got them to run, got the Nazis to run so 304 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: they could kind of try and get them out of 305 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: the area. A group of people sort of cut back 306 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 1: behind the school trying and cut them off. I got 307 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 1: tear gas and when the tear gas flew, everything just 308 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: got set off. There was rioting on and off for 309 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: like three days in this neighborhood. After this, a bar 310 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: owned by a cop got burned, got looted, and then 311 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: burned to the ground. People try to burn this Nazi's 312 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: house down. They had to declare state of emergency over this, 313 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: And so there are a number of things that really 314 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: important about that day, I think for for us, one 315 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: was it really did point to the effectiveness of community 316 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: anti fascist work. People that neighborhood were already mad, but 317 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: it was this sort of like mobilization work which was 318 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: done by people in the neighborhood and also done by 319 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: kind of anarchists that were down in the neighborhood working 320 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: with people to really make that what it was right. 321 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: And it really showed what a community can do when 322 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: Nazis show up in their name, and how much a 323 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: community can reassert its ownership over their space when the 324 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: police decided to protect the Nazis that are attacking their neighborhood. 325 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: But the other thing that really demonstrated that it really 326 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: kind of created was it created a dynamic in Ohio 327 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: which had been sort of building for a little while, 328 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: but you can kind of still feel the ramifications of it. 329 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: So starting with the over the Rhine riots, which I 330 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: think we're in two thousand three or two thousand one, 331 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: when the Cincinnati police killed Timothy Thomas, there had kind 332 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: of been this escalating series of you know, tensions with 333 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: with the state around this period of time. It's also 334 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: the period of time that a lot of high cities 335 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: were sort of beginning. They're the really cute period of 336 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: their decline that they had been sort of declining for 337 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: a while, But this is really when things got bad. 338 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 1: It was starting really like the early two thousands, mid 339 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: two thousand's UM. The financial collapse in Cleveland, for example, 340 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: was in two thousand six UM, but it had already 341 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: been sort of going for a couple of years before that, 342 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: and so there were these political conditions that were in 343 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: place that facilitated this. But this also kind of created 344 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: a dynamic of confrontation with the state and created a 345 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: mentality within anarchist communities about being really realistic about what 346 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: those confrontations look like. UM that instead of being idealistic 347 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: sort of like people were in the anti war movement 348 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: and um, sort of approaching police from a perspective of 349 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: ideas and discourse, what we learned during those days is 350 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: that we should probably approach the police as a logistical 351 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: force and understand them as such. UM. It was after 352 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: that point that people really started researching police tactics in 353 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: this area of the country, and that has had really 354 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: profound impacts over the last fifteen years. Right. It really 355 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: did create an entire culture of really digging into those 356 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: kinds of things very carefully and doing it in a 357 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: way which wasn't bombastic, but was focused on actual research. 358 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: The reason that that could happen was what went down 359 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: on those days was so intense. UM. It was the 360 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: first time a lot of people had experienced like full 361 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: blown major rioting before and like major large scale urban 362 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: writing before, and it definitely changed a lot about the 363 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: way that anarchists in this area of the country approached things. UM. 364 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: And you can still feel the the ramifications the ripple 365 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: effects of that today. Stay with us. We're gonna take 366 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 1: a quick break and we'll be right back after these 367 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: words from our sponsors. In our last segment, we're going 368 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: to speak to anti fashion his researcher and author Spencer Sunshine. 369 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: But first, let's rewind the clock to when Trump first 370 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 1: came in as president in two thousand seventeen, kicking off riots, walkouts, 371 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: and protests around the country. Angry protests soon spilled into airports. 372 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: His people in the tens of thousands took action to 373 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: defeat the Muslim ban. On February second, a massive riot 374 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: kicked off at you See Berkeley against the far right 375 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: troll Milo Napolis, shutting down his scheduled talk. The far 376 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: right responded by holding a series of free speech rallies 377 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: throughout the summer, and anti fascists soon found themselves out 378 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 1: flanked in the streets by a loose coalition of militia members, 379 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: Proud Boys, neo Nazis, and alt right groups. Seeking to 380 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: seize on this moment, the White Nashal swing of the 381 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: movement called for another free speech rally in Charlesville, Virginia, 382 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: and the scene was set for historic and deadly showdown. 383 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: It was pretty clear, especially as the run up to 384 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: it happened, about how big it was going to be, 385 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: how many different kinds of groups were going to be involved, 386 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: and that for the first time, although there had been 387 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: increasing mobilizations throughout the year especially, it was the first 388 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: one that was gonna be led by open fascists. Some 389 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: of the other ones fascists participated in them, but there 390 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: were more a pan far right. We were like pan 391 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: far right events like what happened in Berkeley, but this 392 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,239 Speaker 1: one was going to be led by fascists, and they 393 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: were all those many different kinds of groups, and they 394 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: were coming out of the woodwork. We had old activists 395 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: who had been around in the eighties who stated they 396 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 1: were going to come, and there was clearly a lot 397 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: of energy behind it, and it seemed like it was 398 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: the big bid, and there were some of the participants 399 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 1: were openly saying this it was gonna be the big 400 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: bid for power and legitimacy of the ault right. I 401 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: believe it was Richard Spencer who said, or Matthew Himeeck 402 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: I forget which one actually said. There's gonna be before 403 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: Charlotte's Bille and after Charlotte's Bille, which was true, but 404 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: not in the way that they hoped for. I think 405 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: it was a success for anti fascists and other people 406 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: who wanted the alt right to wanted that inertia to 407 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: stop and eventually end um. But it was not a 408 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: success I think in the way that people wanted it 409 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: to be or think about it um as a success. 410 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: It could have it was. It could have been a 411 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: failure very easily after the event. The event itself was 412 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: fairly neutral. I mean, there was all the fighting that 413 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: is in people's minds that all happened before the rally 414 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: was supposed to start. That was kind of a draw, 415 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: which certainly was not a success that anti fascists stopped 416 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: the rally. They did not. It did not stop people 417 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: from entering into the rally grounds. The police dispersed it 418 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: before the rally itself actually started, so that can be 419 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: seen as a success. And then the car attack, of 420 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: course was well in some ways a failure for us, 421 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: and I think at the very beginning many of the 422 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: fascists you know, were excited about it, like it really 423 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: did add to their inertia, and the whole thing could 424 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: have been forgotten about very quickly, in which case I 425 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: think it then would have been seen as a success 426 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: for the fascists. If people remember the first when it happened, 427 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: Trump immediately was like, nazis bad. And then the next 428 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: day he made his very fine people on both sides comment, 429 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: and this is what energized liberals essentially to condemn him 430 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: and to jump on the bandwagon against him. If he 431 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: hadn't said that, this could have just sort of passed 432 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: out of the public eye very easily, and it be seen, 433 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: at least by fascists that anti fascists were unable to 434 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: mobilize enough people to stop them, you know, and the 435 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: only stopping of them only happened because the police did it. 436 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: So I think it could have easily been a draw 437 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: or neutral or a failure without Trump's comments. It did 438 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 1: end up being success because of this backlash against them. 439 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: It did, for whatever reason, did finally bring it to 440 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: the consciousness of people that um this huge rising in 441 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: the far right that Trump had engendered, what it really meant, 442 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: how violent it was really going to be, what a 443 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: threat it really was, And it did motivate people two 444 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: and the and the aftermath in particular. Unfortunately, this sort 445 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: of went away really quickly to take the streets and 446 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: come out in big numbers and condemn the alt right, 447 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: and the fascist wing of the right did collapse fairly 448 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: soon afterwards. By spring of the next year. Charlottesvill was 449 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 1: real interesting because people had been killed by the ault 450 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: right before it, but not in such a dramatic manner, 451 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: not in public and not on video. And it was 452 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: sort of like, I think for people, and I've said 453 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: this before, I kind of you remember the first murders, 454 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: you remember the first blood, and in that sense, because 455 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: afterwards a lot of people were killed during the Trump 456 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: administration and car attacks. I mean, I think a few 457 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: dozen people during the Black Lives Matter demonstrations. It became 458 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: almost wrote where you're like, oh, someone was killed at 459 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: a demonstration again. But it was the shock of this 460 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: at first, because this had not been seen for a 461 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: very long time in the United States, that someone would 462 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 1: be murdered at a demonstration. Um, And that really sort 463 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: of stuck with people, and in that way it became 464 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: a symbol. Um. You can even today still say Charlotte'sville 465 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: unless people are you know, teenagers or something, don't remember 466 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: people know what you're talking about. Biden invoked it when 467 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: he was running for president. So it's good it remains 468 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: as a symbol of how big the really really far right, 469 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: you know, the fascists can become quite quickly, and how 470 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: violent and murderous they are, And so that remains is 471 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: a symbol to people, I think, and frankly that there 472 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: can be resistance to it, Like people also saw there 473 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: was real resistance and people were willing to fight them, 474 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: and especially after one six like there's no more of 475 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: this idiotic discourse. A bet if it's okay to punch 476 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 1: and nazi, I really think most people do think it's 477 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: okay now, you know, after they've seen one unfolded under 478 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: the entire arc of Trump from Charlotte'sville to the capital takeover. 479 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: If people had stayed at home, if there wasn't the 480 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: allart the mobilization that did occur, it would have been 481 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: a total victory for them. They would have taken it 482 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: as a total victory and then moved on to the 483 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: next thing and tried something bigger. Absolutely, if you held 484 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: a demonstration and a thousand people came, you know, wouldn't 485 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 1: you be an you did your thing? Wouldn't be like cool, 486 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: like let's move on to the next thing that was successful. 487 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: Over the years, since I've done more and more activism, 488 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: I come to realize what nothing succeeds as success means, 489 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: like once you start going, when something succeeds, more people 490 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: come to it and you can move on and move 491 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 1: on as a bigger thing and be able to do 492 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: things you weren't able to do before. So this is 493 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: why I always say we need to confront people. We 494 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: have to break their movement. We can't let it jump 495 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: from either success to success or just simply not a failure. 496 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 1: Because if you're already moving and you hit something that's 497 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: not a failure, you'll just go on to the next thing. 498 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: Nothing will stop you. And we need to need these 499 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: things to stop. The night of Heather Higher was murdered, 500 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: thousands hit the streets and cities across the United States, 501 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: tearing down Confederate statues and marching in solidarity. A few 502 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: weeks later, when far right activists tried to hold a 503 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: rally in Boston, over forty hit the streets to shut 504 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: it down. A week later in San Francisco and Berkeley, too, 505 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: of thousands of march to shut down more alright rallies. 506 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: In Berkeley, a black block of several hundred strong marched 507 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: information as part of a wider anti racist coalition, pushing 508 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: both far right activists and heavily armed riot police out 509 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: of a downtown park where only months before, far right 510 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: activists had driven out anti fascists. The events of the 511 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: first eight months of the Trump administration showed that there 512 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,719 Speaker 1: was mass militant opposition on the streets of the US 513 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: against the far right, which destabilized the Trump regime and 514 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: made it back pedal. But more importantly, it showed millions 515 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: of people across the country the resistance was possible. That 516 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: is going to do it for us today. Follow i 517 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: g D at It's Going Down dot org and on 518 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: masodon at i g D Underscore News. Thanks so much 519 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: for tuning in and be sure to come back next time. 520 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: As it Could Happen Here returns. We will continue to 521 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: tread where we please into the fascist no past on 522 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 523 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 524 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 525 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 526 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts you can find sources for. It could 527 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: happen here, Updated monthly at cool zone media dot com 528 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: slash sources. Thanks for listening.