1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Dave Ramsey, personal money management expert, America's trusted voice on 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: money and business, has a national radio show It's all 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: over the place. He's got seven best selling books um 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: sold in many millions of copies, and he's got a 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: heck of an interesting life story as well. And we 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: couldn't agree with this guy more on a whole bunch 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: of different things, because four hours simply usn't enough. This 8 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: is armstrong and getty extra large. There he is, Dave Ramsey. 9 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: How are you, sir? Great? How are you guys? Oh, 10 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: we're terrific. We're terrific. You know, we have a lot 11 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: a lot in common, whether you know it or not, 12 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: because we share a lot of your beliefs about financial 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: responsibility and how you know it's it's I don't know 14 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: if you consider it moral? Do is like being reasonable 15 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: with your money, being frugal, being smart? Do you consider 16 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: that a moral value? Probably? Is this definitely wise? Sure? 17 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: Because I mean it used to be taught by all 18 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: the classic religions that that was part of being a 19 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: good person. Yeah, it's a discipline of your life, and 20 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: it's an indicator or that you're uh, you know, you're 21 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: emotionally spiritually mature that you handle money well, I mean, 22 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: you're not a child. Here. Here's where it comes up 23 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: most often on our show is there'll be some government 24 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: statistic or a conversation particularly about or around retirement or people, 25 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: you know, when they're getting older and how much money 26 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: they've got, and I'm supposed to feel terrible about it. Well, 27 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: I might feel terrible about person A. Maybe they had 28 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: bad things happen to him. I don't know. But person 29 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: B may have always owned a new car and gone 30 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: on vacations. I've never gone on, and then lived in 31 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: a house bigger than they should have, and then they 32 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: got no money there into their life. I don't care. 33 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: So it bothers me that that the news never takes 34 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: that into an into account, well, because there there would 35 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: be an ideological agenda obviously with those folks. So the 36 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: news folks and people putting out that in that way 37 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: because if you can say, well, society is sick, and uh, 38 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: you know all of those people are victims of a 39 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: systemic problem, then we must to need socialism to fix it. Right. Yeah, 40 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: I get I get what you're saying, but just what 41 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: a bad message to have for everyone though? Uh? In 42 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: real life. Just two days ago, I'm going to visit 43 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 1: my my dad with my kids. They're going to see 44 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 1: grandma and grandpa. And buddy of mine said, boy, where 45 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: your dad lives. He must have really done well in 46 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: the business he was in. And I said, no, not really. 47 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: He never made very much money. We just always drove 48 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: used cars. We lived in a small house. We never 49 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: went anywhere on vacation. He's just always been really really fuegel. 50 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: That's frugal. That's why he's got some money. The assumption 51 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: that you have to make says some Cooper says, oh, 52 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: he's lucky, right exactly. But luck didn't have anything to 53 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: do with this. So listen. For fans of Armstrong and 54 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: getting you might not listen to you or or be 55 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: familiar with you. What's the introduction crash course to Dave 56 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: Ramsey and what you teach? Well, start with him. Honored 57 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,839 Speaker 1: to be on the Armstrong and Getty show. You guys 58 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: are legends. Thank you for having me. Honored to be 59 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: with you. But you know, it is common sense. It's 60 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: God's and Grandma's ways of handling money, is what we 61 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: always say. And so it's live on less than you make. 62 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: It's be outrageously generous. It's have a written plan, stay 63 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: out of debt, because your number one wealth building tool 64 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,119 Speaker 1: is your income, and when you give it to everybody else, 65 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: that makes you pour uh. You know. It's those basic 66 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: kinds of things like that. It used to be called 67 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: common sense, and I've made a really good living for 68 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: thirty years with it. Yeah. Well, I didn't know this 69 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: about your bio until I was reading your bio. At 70 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: twenty six. You accumulated a lot of money for a 71 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: year old, then you lost it all. What's that whole story? 72 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: And then what you learn from it? I was stupid? Um, 73 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: that's you know. We started with nothing, and by the 74 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: time I was twenty six, I had about four million 75 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: dollars worth of real estate, a little over a million 76 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: dollar net worth. And this is eight four. I made 77 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: two h fifty thousand dollars cash taxable income that year 78 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: in Tennessee. We call that a lot of money back then. 79 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: And so I was doing great, but I borrowed too much. 80 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: The bank got sold to another bank. I had built 81 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: a house of cards, and guess what they called our 82 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: loans because they freaked out and saw twenty six year 83 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: old kid oh too, millions of dollars. And it took 84 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: two and a half years then for Sharon I to 85 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: lose everything we owned, and we had the wonderful opportunity 86 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: to start over with a brand new baby, a toddler 87 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: in our marriage hanging on by a thread. Wow, that's 88 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: that's something else. And and so starting out a new 89 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: what was different about your approach? Um? Well, I wasn't 90 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: just broke. I was broken. Uh it. I thought I 91 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: could do anything, and I've discovered I couldn't. And so I, 92 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: you know, I had to rethink all the stuff I 93 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: had been taught in academia and check it against scripture 94 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: and check it against common sense. Because in academia they 95 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: tell you that there's good debt and so borrow as 96 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: much as you can if it's a student loan or 97 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: a house. And uh here I sat broke using that 98 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: exact theory. So something's wrong with this. And I kind 99 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: of came up with the idea that a broke finance 100 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: professor is like a shop teacher with missing fingers. You know, 101 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,119 Speaker 1: I don't think I'm gonna follow your best ideas because 102 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: the last time I did, it left a mark. And 103 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 1: uh so I just got weird. I just said, you 104 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: know what, I talked to rich people, and they don't 105 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: borrow money. They don't borrow money. They don't care credit 106 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: card balances, they don't have car payments, they drive used cars. Um, 107 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: they don't borrow money. They go on vacation, they pay 108 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: for it. They don't borrow money. They get ready to 109 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: fix up their kitchen, they pay for it, and then 110 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: the next month they get to keep their paycheck instead 111 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: of giving it some stupid bank home equity loan. And 112 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: so it was a real revelation, you know. And so 113 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: I started applying this stuff to my life, and then 114 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: I started talking about to other people, and it turned into, 115 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: you know, thirty years later, a Hall of Fame radio show, 116 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: Who Knew So? And what's interesting to us about the 117 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: change in the culture from a pays ugo society to 118 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: everybody borrows to buy everything all the time, is that 119 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: it didn't happen in two seventy five years. I mean literally, 120 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: Grandma paid as she went there. There bad guys in 121 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: this Is it just a societal thing? How that change happened. Uh, 122 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: there's bad guys, but they're they're not. It's not a 123 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory. They're just uh, they don't care about their customer, 124 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: and they're called banks. And you know, the debt is 125 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: the most aggressively marketed product in the culture that has 126 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: the most marketing in the history of mankind. So there's 127 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: more money spent selling the credit card than any other 128 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: product in our world today. And we live in the 129 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: most marketed to culture in the history of the world. 130 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: So these guys are really good at getting you in 131 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: debt and making you believe at the core of your 132 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: very being that you cannot exist without debt. Well, you 133 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: can't have a car that a car payment. You can't 134 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: be a student without a student loan. It's absurd, Graham, 135 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: you've lost your mind. No, got a pretty good life 136 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: that way, boy. And the most obvious of business analysis 137 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: is they're not working that hard and spending that much 138 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: to get your credit card because if they know it 139 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: will be helpful, it's because they're gonna make that much money. 140 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: You know. If you notice their building is bigger than 141 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: your house and their furniture is nicer than yours, something's 142 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: going on here. It's a transfer of wealth, boys and girls. Boy. 143 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: And if you if you've ever been in the position 144 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: to pay cash for things you're washing machine or your 145 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: car or whatever. When you when you when you are 146 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: paying cash, you make different buying decisions. You don't buy 147 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: the next step up of car if you're paying cash 148 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: for at least that's been my experience. You yeah, because 149 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: it's like real money. It's yeah, it counts his real money. 150 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: So a Dave um any thoughts on the current state 151 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: of college education and paying for it. You've mentioned student 152 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: loans a couple of times. What else? Uh, Well, one 153 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: of our Ramsey personalities, Anthony O'Neil's launching a book on 154 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: October seventh called Debt Free Degree. We are sure you 155 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: can go to college debt free. But it's just like you, 156 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: it's exactly like you just said. It has to do 157 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: with college choice, choosing to go to a school that 158 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: is within your budget, choosing to buy a car that's 159 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: within your budget. No one even considers what they're paying 160 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: for school because it's not real money. It's monopoly money. 161 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: And um, you know. And on the political front, this 162 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: idea of forgiving student loans without the idea of stopping 163 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: making them is ridiculous. If this is a plague on 164 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: America of epic proportions, which I think it is. Then 165 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: Congress needs to wake up and stop making stop guaranteeing 166 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: the line. I don't know how much time you want 167 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: to spend on the politics as but but it drives 168 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: us crazy that the discussion is always about whether you 169 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: forgive loans or not, or how much or whatever. Nobody 170 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: ever even brings up why is college so damned expensive? Now? Why? 171 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: Why would knowledge is easier to spread around than it's 172 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: ever been in the history of the world. Is college 173 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,599 Speaker 1: ten times as expensive? It doesn't even come up in 174 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: the conversation. Well, it's supplying to my end of money. 175 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: I can tell you that. I mean, when you have 176 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: unlimited money, when your customer has unlimited money to spend, 177 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: you will find a way to raise your prices. And 178 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: so you want college price to come down, stop the 179 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 1: student loan guarantee program instantaneously. Colleges will disappear, and some 180 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: of them need to because they're ridiculous, and the rest 181 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: of them will adjust to a disrupted market. But this 182 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: is a market that's propped up by government subsidies, and 183 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: it's driven the price through the roof. It's basic econ right. 184 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: You don't need to be an economist. You need to 185 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: be like a first or second year ECON student to 186 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: understand what distorting market is. Um but and and you 187 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: know a final note is semi philosophical. It's interesting listening 188 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: to you tell your life story, Dave, that it comes 189 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: from being humbled, and through being humbled you decided I'm 190 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: the captain of my own ship. I'm strong enough to 191 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: plot my own course. It's it's kind of an interesting contrast. Now, 192 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: the problem with my monny is the guy in my mirror. 193 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: If I can get that goober to behave he can 194 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: be skinny and rich, but he's got issues. Well said, indeed, 195 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: you know it's it's been too long since we talked. Listen, 196 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: not let too much time go by again, Dave Ramsey, Well, 197 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: thank you, my brothers. I'm honored to be on the 198 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: station with you, and thank you for letting me come 199 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: on for a few minutes. You holler anytime, I'd be 200 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: happy to do this. We'll do that. Thanks. I've never 201 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: heard that story before I did. I listened to Ramsey 202 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: on and often I hear all the credit card advice 203 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: and stuff, and it's all great. I agree with it, 204 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: but I've never heard the story of how he had 205 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: a million dollars when he was twenty six, and that's 206 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: when a million dollars was really a lot of money 207 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: and and lost it all. Well that you know, that'll 208 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: change your view of things. Yep, good stuff extra large