1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: On the night of November twentieth, nineteen ninety nine, Angela Garcia, 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: a single mother, was at home with her two toddlers. 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: It was a quiet, peaceful evening. The girls were upstairs 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: in her bedroom watching Rugrats on TV. Downstairs, Angela was 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: on the phone with her family making Thanksgiving plans. Angela 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,159 Speaker 1: went up to use the bathroom, and while there, she 7 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: noticed it was getting hard to breathe. She began coughing. 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 2: I knew something was going on, but I couldn't really 9 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 2: figure out what was happening in the house. 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: When she came out of the bathroom, Angela saw smoke 11 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: billowing up from downstairs. Frantically, she searched for her daughters, 12 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: but the smoke was too thick. 13 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 2: I couldn't find them, and so the only thing I 14 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 2: thought about was I needed somebody to help me. 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: Angela broke the window, jumped down from the second story, 16 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: and ran to the neighbor's house. 17 00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: I went to her house, and not to please help me, 18 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: Please help me find my kids. Can't get I can't 19 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: get my kids. 20 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: Both of her children died in the fire. Angela was 21 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: convicted of arson and murder and given a life sentence, 22 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: and then after spending over sixteen years in prison, she 23 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: was faced with an agonizing choice. 24 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 2: I cried so hard, and I remember praying to God 25 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 2: and asking God, like, whatever you want me to do 26 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 2: or do because I just I had to make a 27 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 2: decision within a couple of minutes that was gonna change 28 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 2: the rest of my life. 29 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: From LoVa for good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie 30 00:01:38,080 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: Freeling today Angela Garcia. Angela Garcia was born in New 31 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: York in nineteen seventy seven. She moved to Cleveland when 32 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: she was fourteen. 33 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 2: My mom got married to my stepdad when I was 34 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: really young, so he kind of raised me. I lived 35 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 2: with him and my mom. So I have a bunch 36 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: of step brothers and sisters, but for my mom, I 37 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 2: only have. It's me and I have one sister, my 38 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 2: sister Judy, for my mom were seven years apart. 39 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 3: She was just a little sister. She always wanted to 40 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 3: be up under me, as little sisters always want to do. 41 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: This is Angela's older sister, Judy Cotto Nichols, and despite 42 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: their age difference, the two have always been close. 43 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: I have this one memory that I always think about 44 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 2: my mom had I don't know how old I was. 45 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 2: I had been really young. My mom had bought these 46 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 2: telephones and we had this long hallway, and I remember 47 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: us being on these like I think they were blue phones. 48 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that is so silly. 49 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 3: Yes, my mother had bought her for Christmas, these little phones, 50 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 3: remember them princess phones. Well there was two of them 51 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 3: attached to one that She'd be in one room and 52 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 3: I'd be in the other room. We talked. 53 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that is so silly. 54 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 2: Hi, Angela, Hi Judy. I just that's like one of 55 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: the memories from my childhood that is so fond in 56 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 2: my mind. 57 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 3: I think we had a good childhood. You know, we 58 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 3: would know it was never hungry. 59 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: We lived nicely. 60 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: The sisters stayed close as they grew older and both 61 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: started families. Judy had a son, dj and Angela had 62 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: two girls, Nayima and Nysa. Their children were around the 63 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: same age and constantly together. 64 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: My oldest daughter was like real bubbly, real talkative, and 65 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 2: just really outgoing, and then my youngest daughter was kind 66 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 2: of quiet, like real observant. She would be quick to 67 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 2: speak to people, but like she would try to get 68 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: a feel of people. I A would say that they 69 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: like they were both of my characters kind of like 70 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: split up and got into both of them. 71 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 3: Naima she was always smiling. She thought she was big 72 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 3: sister to her little sister and my son. Yeah, she 73 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 3: was a smart one. And Nida, Yeah she was the. 74 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: Roly poly one. 75 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 3: She was more quiet. She was just she was like 76 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 3: a little Buddha. She's so adorable. 77 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: And I used to love to do to hear, used 78 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 2: to like braid to hear and for men here. 79 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 3: And it was spoiled by everyone. They were babies that couldn't. 80 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: Do no wrong. How was she as a mom? 81 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 3: She was a good mom. Yeah. I kept the kids 82 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 3: a lot because I had a younger son, so so 83 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 3: they can play together all the time. So basically I 84 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 3: had them mostly all the weekends. 85 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: Angela was a single mother, twenty two years old and 86 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: engaged to be married. She was raising her daughters in 87 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 1: a two story house she rented from her parents in 88 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: East Cleveland. Judy and her family lived nearby. Angela was 89 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,799 Speaker 1: in school and dreamed of becoming a paramedic. 90 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: But it was like schooling was expensive. So me and 91 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: my sister had I think we had went somewhere and 92 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: we met a recruiter, and he told me like, hey, 93 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: if you sign up for you know, to be in 94 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: a navy, you know, we'll pay for you go to school. 95 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: So I mean, I just figured why not, Like, who 96 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 2: wouldn't want to do that? And knowing that somebody that 97 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: your whole schooling is going to be paid for. 98 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: Basic training would take six weeks, and Angela knew she 99 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: would need someone to take care of her daughters during 100 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: that time, So naturally she asked Judy. 101 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not a problem. It wasn't a problem, you know. 102 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 3: I just say, it takes a village to raise a family, 103 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 3: you know, so we was our little village. 104 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: But yeah, of course that never happened. 105 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 4: So this case started with a fire at Angela's house 106 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 4: on November twentieth, nineteen ninety nine. 107 00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: This is Joanna Sanchez. 108 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 4: Managing counsel of the Wrongful Conviction Project at the Office 109 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 4: of the Ohio Public Defender. 110 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: It was the weekend before Thanksgiving and Angela was at 111 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: home with the girls. 112 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: My daughters used to love Rugrats, so we used to 113 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 2: watch that all the time they were two and three, 114 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 2: So it really wasn't like we were doing like a 115 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: whole lot. 116 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: The house was calm and quiet. While the girls watched TV. 117 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: Up in her bedroom, Angela lit a couple of candles. 118 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: I was talking with her stepsister on the phone downstairs. 119 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 2: And we were just talking about Thanksgiving and who's gonna 120 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: cook and what they're gonna cook and all that. I 121 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: had Winnes say as he used the restroom, and my 122 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 2: oldest daughter, Naima, she had came in the bathroom and 123 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: I told him, like, get out the bathroom, and she 124 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 2: said something to me, but I didn't pay any attention 125 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: whatever she was saying. And to this day, I always 126 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 2: think about if I would have listened to her. Maybe 127 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: she was telling me something, maybe she seen something, heard 128 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: something and was trying to tell me, But at the 129 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 2: time I didn't think anything of it. 130 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 4: When she came out of the bathroom, she noticed she 131 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 4: was coughing and she saw smoke, so she kind of 132 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 4: went towards the stairs and saw just smoke billowing up 133 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 4: the stairs. 134 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: I knew something was going on, but I couldn't really 135 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: figure out what was happening in the house. And I 136 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: knew I was having problems breathing and I couldn't breathe. 137 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: The first thing Angela thought of was her children. 138 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 2: They were in my bedroom at the time, and so 139 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 2: I was feeling all over my bed for them, and 140 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: I couldn't find them. 141 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 4: And by this point the house was just filling with 142 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 4: thick black smoke. 143 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 2: I couldn't find them, and so the only thing I 144 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 2: thought about was I needed somebody to help me. So 145 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 2: I opened up the window and I was screaming out 146 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 2: the window, and then somehow I broke. I busted the 147 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 2: window out trying to get out, and then I jumped down. 148 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: I jumped out of the house. And in my mind 149 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 2: at the time, I thought that if I jump, if 150 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 2: I jumped out and found somebody to help me, I 151 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: could find my daughters. 152 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 4: So she did break out the second story window, went 153 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 4: onto what was the roof of the porch, jumped down 154 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 4: to the yard, and ran to her neighbor's house to 155 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 4: get help. 156 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: You don't think like I didn't think about if you 157 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 2: jump out the window, how are you gonna get back 158 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: in the house. I never even thought about that. The 159 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 2: only thing I thought about was trying to get back in, 160 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 2: you know, trying to trying to stay them, trying to 161 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: find them. And so I went to the next door 162 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 2: neighbor's house, and I said, please help me, Please help 163 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: me find my kids. Can't get I can't get my kids, 164 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 2: and me and her went back to the house. I 165 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: don't remember everything that happened. I remember me and her 166 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 2: being on the porch because we couldn't get back in 167 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: the house. 168 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 4: Unfortunately, by the time the firefighters came, Nija and Naima 169 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 4: had died. Initially, the firefighters, they looked at the house, 170 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 4: they documented the scene. They brought in an accelerant sniffing 171 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 4: dog who found no accelerant, and they determined that this 172 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 4: was an accidental fire, and they destroyed the house. 173 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: Is that normal? I thought that was so crazy. Two 174 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: days later, the house is destroyed. 175 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 4: It's very quick. I mean it prevented certainly the defense 176 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 4: from ever collecting any evidence in the house. But really 177 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 4: no evidence was collected. I mean they took photos, but 178 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 4: no materials were collected for any store of testing for 179 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 4: accelerance or anything of that nature. So it's very strange. 180 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: So then walk me through. It's an accident. The house 181 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: is leveled. How do we get to where we are? 182 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 4: So the house is leveled. A couple months later, Angela 183 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 4: submitted her insurance claim for her renter's insurance, and they 184 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 4: believed that she had overvalued the contents of her home. 185 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 4: And so at that point the police and the fire 186 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 4: investigation unit started looking at this again and determined instead 187 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 4: that this was an incendiary fire. 188 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: How do they come to that conclusion without the house? 189 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 4: So what they did was they looked back at some 190 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 4: of the photographs. There's a large burned through pattern in 191 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 4: the dining room floor, and so they believed that was 192 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 4: the area of origin. I think when they had called 193 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 4: it an accidental fire, the presumption had been that maybe 194 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 4: one of the gandals had fallen over and caused this fire. 195 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 4: And so one of the fire investigating unit officers indicated 196 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 4: that he thought now the candle was too sturdy and 197 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 4: too far away from any combustibles to have caused the fire, 198 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 4: and so they came to the conclusion that it must 199 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 4: have been an intentional fire. 200 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: Angela was barely into her twenties. She had lost both 201 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,479 Speaker 1: her daughters as well as her home. 202 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 2: That hope time period. I can't even say, you know 203 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 2: how when you're sleep in like you think you're dreaming, 204 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 2: but you're not sure because sometimes it looks real. Something 205 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 2: parts of the dream looks real something parts to fake. 206 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 2: And that's just how I felt for that time period. 207 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 2: You know, I was I was a young mom, and 208 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 2: I never really experienced losing anybody. I didn't know how 209 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 2: to feel. I didn't how to feel. I didn't know 210 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 2: what I was supposed to feel. Now I know that 211 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: I was in a real bad depression. 212 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: And then just three months later, in February of two thousand, 213 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: Angela was arrested. She was charged with insurance fraud and 214 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: aggravated murder. 215 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 2: I couldn't believe I was arrested. Actually, I was like, 216 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 2: what is this crazy? You know, it didn't make no 217 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 2: sense to me, none whatsoever. I knew I didn't hurt 218 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 2: my daughters. You know, I knew I didn't them. I 219 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: love them like I love myself. You know, I always 220 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: believed that the truth will prevail. I always thought that 221 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 2: if somebody got arrested, whatever they got arrested for, they did, 222 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 2: because that's what society teaches you to think, That's what 223 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 2: the news teaches you to think. So why would I 224 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: ever think that the system would let me down? 225 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. 226 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: You can listen to this and all the Lava for 227 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing 228 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Angela's two daughters, 229 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: three year old Naima and two year old Nyja, had 230 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: died in the house fire, and on August twenty first, 231 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: two thousand, Angela went to trial for the first time 232 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: before Judge Bridget McCafferty. The state sought the death penalty. 233 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: Their case hinged on the theory that Angela had burned 234 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: down her house and killed her children to get the 235 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: insurance money. 236 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 4: She had a render's insurance policy. She had life insurance 237 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 4: on herself, and their theory was that she burned down 238 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 4: her house and murdered her children so that she could 239 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 4: collect some money on those insurance policies and sort of 240 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 4: start a new life child free. 241 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: Remember the year before, Angela had been thinking about joining 242 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: the navy. 243 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 4: And because she was a single mother, she was told, 244 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 4: you can't join the navy with dependence, you know. So 245 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 4: Angela looked into having her older sister, who she was 246 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 4: very close with and very close with her children, to 247 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 4: take temporary custody of them while she pursued this navy career. 248 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 4: Ultimately Angela changed her mind and didn't do that. 249 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: Nevertheless, the state used that information at trial to bolster 250 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: their narrative that Angela was trying to free herself from 251 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: the responsibility of motherhood by setting fire to her own home. 252 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 4: They put on their fire investigation unit, a couple officers 253 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 4: from there, and they testified about what we now know 254 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 4: are really outdated myths that used to use that indicated 255 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 4: arson in their minds, so different types of char like 256 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 4: alligator char on the walls, burned through pattern. They put 257 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 4: that evidence on. 258 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: The prosecution also presented an insurance adjuster to testify that 259 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: Angela had recently purchased a large renter's insurance policy as 260 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: well as a policy on herself and her daughters. 261 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 4: The defense put on evidence that indicated she actually hadn't 262 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 4: sought out those policies. These are salesmen who had come 263 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 4: to her work and sort of given her a sales pitch, 264 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 4: and she had reluctantly signed up for insurance. 265 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: In addition to those witnesses, the prosecution presented firefighters and 266 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: neighbors who had witnessed the events that night. They also 267 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: presented a hospital worker who testified that when Naimo was 268 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: brought into the er. She was wrapped in a cord 269 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: from the window blind. 270 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 4: They alleged that Angela had tied up one of her children. 271 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 4: There's lots of testimony that shows why she might have 272 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 4: ended up bound in those blinds. There was testimony from 273 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 4: the firefighters that they actually came in and they used 274 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 4: a tool to knock out the windows and knock down 275 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 4: all the blinds and curtains, and so those blinds would 276 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 4: have landed on her child. The firefighter then scooped her 277 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 4: up with the blinds, went outside with her, handed her 278 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 4: to an EMS worker, who then handed her to someone else, 279 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 4: and so it's easy to see how during this whole 280 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 4: process she may have become entangled in the blinds. 281 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: The prosecution also alleged that Angela wasn't reacting properly at 282 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: the hospital, that she wasn't behaving the way a grieving 283 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: mother should. 284 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 4: You know, that's something that's really interesting about this case 285 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 4: because originally what the witnesses that the scene were saying 286 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 4: was that Angela was hysterical. She was sitting on the ground, 287 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 4: she was rocking back and forth. You know, she was 288 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 4: screaming about her children. Really, you know, couldn't be consoled, 289 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 4: and when she was interviewed at the hospital by the 290 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 4: firefighters and the police detectives, they wrote up a report 291 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 4: said nothing about her demeanor thing out of sorts. Later, 292 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 4: after they changed the fire to incendiary, they went back 293 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 4: and added a report about their reflections of her demeanor 294 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 4: that night in the hospital and said that she was 295 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 4: too calm. 296 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: When the defense presented their case, they didn't call any 297 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: witnesses to testify. 298 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 4: What they did was aggressively cross examine the state's witnesses. 299 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 4: So these trials happened in two thousand and two thousand 300 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 4: and one, and by then fire science was starting to evolve. 301 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 4: This guide that fire investigators use n FPA nine to 302 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 4: twenty one had started to debunk some of these long 303 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 4: held myths, and so the defense at trial really used 304 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 4: that to cross examine the fire investigators about, you know, 305 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 4: all these things that they were relying on that weren't 306 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 4: supported by science. 307 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: The first trial ended in a hung jury. A few 308 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: months later, there was a second trial, which started in 309 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: January of two thousand and one. The same judge and prosecutors. 310 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 4: For the second trial, the state presented much of the 311 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 4: same evidence they did at the first but then also 312 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 4: brought in a jailhouse informant. 313 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: That informant's name was Tanya Lanham. 314 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 4: Tanya and her husband Tim were arrested for passing bad 315 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 4: checks and they hit the jail at the same time. 316 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 4: He was on the men's side, she was on the 317 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 4: women's side with Angela, and so then she would later 318 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 4: testify that Angela confessed to her during that time. 319 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: And as we've seen in so many wrongful conviction cases, 320 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 1: that jailhouse confession never actually happened. 321 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 4: Years later, Tim would write a letter to Angela indicating 322 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 4: that you know that was a lie, and what he 323 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 4: said was that the police approached them. After her first 324 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 4: trial about testifying against Angela. 325 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: The prosecution denied that Tanya and Tim had been offered 326 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: any kind of deal, but after she gave that information 327 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: to the police, Hanya received a sixty day suspended sentence 328 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: for the bad checks charge. That second trial also ended 329 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: in a mistrial. The jury couldn't reach a verdict there either, 330 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 1: but the state just would not give up. 331 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 4: By the time we got to the third trial, the 332 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 4: prosecution had completely changed its prosecutors. They really enhanced their 333 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 4: evidence about the financial motives. It really became a trial 334 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 4: almost entirely about that. And they also alleged that in 335 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 4: between the second and third trial, they had discovered a 336 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 4: second area of origin for the fire in the house. 337 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 4: So now they were saying this didn't just start in 338 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 4: the dining room. There was also a poor pattern on 339 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 4: the stairs, and so the state's theory was an accidental 340 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 4: fire couldn't start in two different locations. They also brought 341 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 4: on and this is kind of maybe one of the 342 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 4: more shocking parts of the third trial, they had a 343 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 4: firefighter testify that he was at the scene the night 344 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 4: of the fire and that on the stairs he found 345 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 4: an intact bit lighter that he didn't photograph, didn't tell 346 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 4: anyone about. He just looked at it, put it back 347 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 4: down and never said anything until trial number three. And 348 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 4: then the other thing the defense did in the third trial, 349 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 4: which they hadn't done in the first two is they 350 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 4: called an expert witness. So they brought in doctor Richard Roby, 351 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 4: who was a chemical engineer and an expert on fire science, 352 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 4: and he testified that the fire investigators had relied on 353 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 4: outdated signs of arson. He really debunked a lot of 354 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 4: what the state's evidence was. He described this concept of 355 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 4: flashover that really changes how fire investigations should be conducted. 356 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 4: And so he was really kind of ahead of his time. 357 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 4: And the state at the third trial called him junk 358 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 4: science and said that he had kind of created a 359 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 4: quote miracle theory of flashover and tried to discredit him, 360 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 4: and they effectively so, and Angela was convicted at the 361 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 4: end of that trial. 362 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 2: By the time my second trial happened, I just I 363 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 2: really believe that, you know, I had two hung juries. Okay, 364 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 2: they don't let me go because why would you still 365 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 2: why would you still keep trying me? And it's like 366 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: mentally it starts to weigh you down, and you know, 367 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,479 Speaker 2: hearing people say things about me that's not true, or 368 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 2: you know, certain people call me a predator, and you know, 369 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 2: all these different type of names and stuff like that. 370 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 2: So I was really going through it and I just 371 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 2: had like this overwhelmingly tired feeling, you know, I was. 372 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,719 Speaker 2: I was just so overwhelmingly tired. 373 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: Joanna. I feel like we'd think after one or two 374 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 1: mistrials they would just let this go, but they did not. 375 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: The state kept coming for Angela. Was there something else 376 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 1: going on? 377 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 2: Yeah? 378 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 4: I think that there's certainly racism and misogyny are a 379 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 4: big factor in Angela's conviction. You know, we often see 380 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 4: this with women who are wrongfully convicted of killing their children. 381 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 4: This idea that they're a horrible mutter is running throughout 382 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 4: their trial, right And in Angela's trial, there's also a 383 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 4: huge degree of racism the way she was characterized throughout 384 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 4: the trial. Angela's Puerto Rican She was referred to as 385 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 4: a predator, as an animal. They suggested that her family 386 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 4: were engaged in fraudulent business or fraudulent practices without any 387 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 4: proof of that. Jurors were interviewed after the first and 388 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 4: second trial, and we know that the deliberations often broke 389 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 4: down along racial lines, and so I think race was 390 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 4: a huge undercurrent in this trial. 391 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: Angela was convicted of three counts of arson, two counts 392 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: of murder, and four counts of aggravated murder. She was 393 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: given two life sentences. She would not become eligible for 394 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: parole for almost fifty years. When they convicted you, what 395 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: did you think? I mean, that was the moment that 396 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: it all became pretty real. 397 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 2: Do you know I wasn't in like a state of shock, 398 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 2: because when I got found guilty I didn't believe it. 399 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 2: I didn't believe it. How do you send someone innocent 400 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: to prison when you know I didn't do this. I 401 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 2: was like in never never Land, like I was in 402 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: a world by myself, in my own head, because I 403 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 2: just could not believe that these people are sending me 404 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 2: to prison for forty nine and a half the life life. 405 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 2: When I was in prison, you know, sometimes women can 406 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 2: be very cruel, you know, and people would say, oh, 407 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: I would have died with my kids, I would have 408 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 2: did this, and I would have did that. But you know, 409 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, no one could honestly 410 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 2: say what they would or wouldn't do. 411 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: And so what was life like for you in prison 412 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: before this happened? You were going to school? Were you 413 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: able to continue with that when you entered prison? 414 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 2: So initially I was doing forty nine and a half 415 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,959 Speaker 2: the life, so I wasn't able to go to school. 416 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: So I just kind of like had nothing to do 417 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 2: for the most part. And so until I gentleman as 418 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 2: he was a teacher there. He helped me a whole lot, 419 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 2: and he taught me a whole lot of like by 420 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 2: construction and things like that, and Blue Princess just like 421 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: a lot of different things, and so like he let 422 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,479 Speaker 2: me become his aid for the class, and he let 423 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 2: me take an apprenticeship, and so he let me weld 424 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. So if it wasn't for him, 425 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 2: I don't know what I would have been doing in there, 426 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 2: because it's so easy to get caught up in drama 427 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 2: and all type of other stuff. So that kind of 428 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 2: kept me out the way. 429 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: Some Judy, your two nieces died and then your sister 430 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: is arrested for their deaths. What were you thinking when 431 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,120 Speaker 1: all of this was happening. 432 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 3: For one, I used to live in that house and 433 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 3: there was already issues going on with the electrical, and 434 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 3: there was already issues going on. Everyone already knew that, 435 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 3: you know. The first thing my dad said, oh my god, 436 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 3: the electrical. You know, I should have got the guys 437 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 3: in there. And electrician actually went in there. He told Angela, 438 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 3: I'll be back. So many people have guilt over this. 439 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 3: The guy that's supposed to come back to the electricity, 440 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 3: he had guilt. Everyone felt I had some sort of 441 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 3: guilt over this. You know, I did, because usually I 442 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 3: get the kids on the weekends, and I didn't have 443 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 3: the kids that day. I don't know what happened, but 444 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 3: I didn't have the kids that weekend. 445 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: When she was in prison. Were you guys still close? 446 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: Did you talk often? 447 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 3: Oh? Yes, one hundred and ten percent. We was going 448 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 3: every weekend. Wow, until they changed the visitation and it 449 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 3: got to the point where the guards knew us. They 450 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 3: would be like, hey, how you doing. 451 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: Hi? 452 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 3: I see it from Yeah, I got to that point. 453 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 3: But we was there all the time. 454 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: You know, I didn't ask her, and I usually do, 455 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: but did she struggle in prison? Did she ever tell 456 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: you about any really hard times she was having in there? 457 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 3: She didn't want us to know anything that was going on. 458 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 3: You know, I don't ask any questions. I told her, 459 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 3: whatever happened in here, leave it there. Don't nobody want 460 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 3: to relive that. You know, if she wants to share, 461 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 3: whenever she's ready, she can share. But I told her, 462 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 3: when you come home, you leave that there. 463 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: Angela's family continued to support her and believe in her innocence, 464 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: and so did the fathers of Naima and Nija. 465 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 2: Both my daughter's fathers did yes, anything I needed. They 466 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 2: were there for me. Even after we had children together, 467 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 2: we still we had a good relationship, and I've talked 468 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 2: them through my whole the whole time I was in prison. 469 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: In two thousand and nine, Angela applied for assistance to 470 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: the Wrongful Conviction Project at the Ohio Public Defender's Office. 471 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 4: We had just started that year, in fact, and so 472 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 4: it was one of our very first cases that we 473 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 4: really dug into. And what we did is we had 474 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 4: some expert witnesses look at the fire in light of 475 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 4: new evidence and particularly the shift in science related to 476 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 4: fire investigation. 477 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: One of those witnesses was the renowned fire expert John 478 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: de Haan. His expertise has been key in reinvestigating many 479 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: other arson convictions, including Karen Bow's and Deborah Nichols. We've 480 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: covered them both on previous episodes. 481 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 4: What he found was that, again the state really relied 482 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 4: on unreliable factors, unscientific signs of arson. He also noted 483 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 4: that there were other potential accidental causes of the fire 484 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 4: that the state completely failed to consider. 485 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: And one of those possible causes ties in with something 486 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: Judy told us about earlier. 487 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 4: They found pretty compelling proof that this was actually an 488 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 4: electrical fire. There was what they called like an unsystemic 489 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 4: mix of wires and that was visible in the ceiling 490 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,959 Speaker 4: of the basement, the floor of the dining room, and 491 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 4: there's evidence that there was like a low burning, sustained 492 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 4: fire in that section. They were also able to use 493 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 4: fire toxicology, which wasn't really used in fire investigation in 494 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 4: nineteen eighty nine, to show that there couldn't possibly have 495 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 4: been a second poor pattern on the stairs. So with that, 496 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 4: we filed emotion asking for Angela to have a new trial, 497 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 4: and we are actually supposed to have a hearing on 498 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 4: that in May twenty sixteen. 499 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: And then on the morning of the hearing, there was 500 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 1: a surprise development. 501 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 4: The prosecution came in and they offered Angela a plea 502 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 4: deal and essentially what they said is plead guilty to 503 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 4: a lesser offensive involuntary manslaughter, will let you go home 504 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 4: from prison in five years. 505 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: This type of plea is known as a dark plea. 506 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 4: Dark plea is a term that Ohio Supreme Court Justice 507 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 4: Michael Donnelly actually coined after learning about Angela's case, and 508 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 4: he uses it to refer to please that happened exactly 509 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 4: like how angelus did. So we think about plea bargaining 510 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 4: in the system, and we usually think about it before trial, right, 511 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 4: somebody decides to enter into a plea instead of going 512 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 4: to trial. A dark plea is one that happens after 513 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 4: an individual has already been convicted. They're incarcerated, and they've 514 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 4: found proof of their innocence, and they're asking for a 515 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 4: new trial, and that dark plea offer comes right at 516 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 4: that time. The danger in it is that it's incredibly 517 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 4: coercive because this person has been convicted, they're living in prison, 518 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 4: they've lost their liberty, and what they're looking at is 519 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 4: take a risk, take a gamble on my future and 520 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 4: hope that the system that has wrongfully convicted me gets 521 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 4: it right, or have this certain freedom and justice. Donley 522 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 4: describes it as essentially negotiating with a gun to your head. 523 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 2: I always said that I'm innocent and I would never 524 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 2: plead anything. Nope, I'm going to fight, fight, fight. However, 525 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: as time go on, I stepdad, past, my moms, getting older, 526 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 2: you know, you start thinking differently. So Joanna said, hey, 527 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 2: they offered you something. 528 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: I'm like what she was like, I don't know what 529 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: to do. 530 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 3: And it was like a last minute thing they gave her, 531 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 3: you know, didn't even give it time to think about anything, 532 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 3: but what ten minutes, fifteen minutes, not even. 533 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: You know, there was like make a. 534 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 3: Decision to make it now? You know, come on, does 535 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 3: somebody's life you don't just tell them, make a decision 536 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 3: to make it now. 537 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 2: I cried so hard, and I remember praying to God 538 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 2: and asking God, like, whatever you want me to do, 539 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 2: I'll do. I can't do this on my own. I 540 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 2: need you, you know. And that's the one time in 541 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 2: my life that I was all by myself. But I 542 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 2: didn't feel alone. And I'm not a very like religious person, 543 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 2: but I felt like God's spirit with me because I 544 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 2: just I had to make a decision within a couple 545 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 2: of minutes that was gonna end change the rest of 546 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 2: my life. 547 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: This deal. 548 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 3: I told her, Angela, you have all the people standing 549 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 3: behind you. We had the workers, the kids' fathers all 550 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 3: standing behind her. But Angela was frightened. She was scared. 551 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 2: I think I was forty at the time and don't 552 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 2: have to worry about doing another thirty seventhing years in 553 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 2: prison for something I didn't do. And then, you know 554 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: what makes it even worse for me is that I 555 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 2: didn't take my children's lives, and now here I am. 556 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 2: I did the one thing that I said I would 557 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 2: never do. I took the plea. 558 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: That morning rather than face a fourth trial, Angela pled 559 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: guilty to one count of aggravated arson and two counts 560 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: of involuntary manslaughter. Under the plea agreement, her sentence was 561 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: reduced to twenty two years. She would be out in 562 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: less than six years. 563 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 2: I didn't have time to think about, Oh, when you 564 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 2: get out, you're gonna be a convicted felon. 565 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: Angela was finally released in January of twenty twenty two, 566 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: but life isn't exactly back to normal with the felony 567 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: convictions still on her record. Even the most basic things 568 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: in life can be a challenge when. 569 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 2: You get out. You can never get an apartment because 570 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 2: they don't rent apartments to convict the felons. You know 571 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 2: how hard it is to get a job having a record. 572 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: You know, it's so many different things that I didn't 573 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 2: get a chance to think about, you know, And then 574 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 2: now I you know, of course, now I think about, like, 575 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 2: did I make the right decision? 576 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: Well, do you regret doing it? 577 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 2: Sometimes I do? Sometimes I do. Sometimes I wish I 578 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 2: had the courage to fight. But you know, all the 579 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 2: things that I've seen that happen in the courtroom, and 580 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 2: I was scared, did I have the mental strength to 581 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 2: go through all that again? Did I want to take 582 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 2: my mom through all that again? Or anybody else in 583 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 2: my family, you know? And I just figured, like, if 584 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 2: I took this plea, like I could be home. I 585 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 2: could be home my mom. I could take her out 586 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,439 Speaker 2: to eat, you know, and I can lay to bed 587 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:23,919 Speaker 2: with her and stuff like that. 588 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: When Angela first got out of prison, adjusting to her 589 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: new life was harder than she expected. 590 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 2: When I first got locked up, I had to figure 591 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 2: out prison. I had to figure out how and what 592 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 2: I had to do to survive. And it's like kind 593 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 2: of the same concept, but being free, it's not like 594 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,479 Speaker 2: the prison or anybody says, you know, hey, listen, here's 595 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 2: a manual. This is what this is, this is life, 596 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 2: this is what you need to do. This is how 597 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 2: things are going to be. You know, you don't get that. 598 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 2: When I I came home, it was weird being around 599 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 2: my friends because we were all once young. Now they're 600 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 2: older women, and not only are they older women, but 601 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 2: their grandmas. Sometimes I will you go out with my friends, 602 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 2: and I will feel out of place, because it's just 603 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 2: like I think that, like when you're in prison, especially 604 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 2: for a long time, it's like that's how you picture them. 605 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 2: Even with my mom, Like my mom's in her seventies now, 606 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 2: but I still picture her as this forty seven year 607 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 2: old woman, you know, And so like sometimes I look 608 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 2: at my mom and she'll do something and I'll be like, man, 609 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 2: my mom's old lady now. 610 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: But Angela, still in the prime of her life and 611 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: with a renewed sense of purpose, plans to get married 612 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: and start a nonprofit organization. 613 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 2: Like a sober living home to help people that have 614 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 2: been in prison, let them have a place to come to. 615 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 2: So I've been trying to work on that and just 616 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 2: trying to work on myself and just trying to become 617 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:09,439 Speaker 2: a better me, a better daughter. A bet it's still 618 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 2: a better n You're. 619 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: Still quite young, do you do you want to have 620 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: kids or adopt kids or anything like that. I'm young, 621 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: I think forty six. 622 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I can know fifties doors like, come on in, no, 623 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 2: I can't have any more children. After I had my children, 624 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 2: I had complications. And that's another reason why my daughters 625 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 2: meant so much to me because I just felt like 626 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 2: God gave me these two. 627 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: So let me ask you. I mean, this is so 628 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: hard to talk about, so how come you do talk 629 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: about it? 630 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 2: I talk about it because my situation can happen to 631 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 2: anybody else out there, and I want people to be 632 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 2: aware of the things that happened to me and to 633 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 2: many others. I want people to understand that ah judicious 634 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 2: system is not always right, and our judicial system is 635 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 2: not always fair. And you know, a lot of people 636 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 2: are not aware of all the people that have been 637 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 2: wrongfully convicted. It's my same situation. Could be your daughter, 638 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 2: your mother, your sister. You know, it could happen to anybody. 639 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 2: I want people to understand that everybody that takes it 640 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 2: plea is not guilty. 641 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie FREELINGK. 642 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the 643 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,240 Speaker 1: links in the episode description to see how you can help. 644 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,280 Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm, Jeff Kempler, 645 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: and Kevin Wortis, as well as senior producer Annie Chelsea, 646 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:11,240 Speaker 1: producer Kathleen Fink, story editor Hannah Beal, and researcher Shelby Sorels. 647 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: Mixing and sound design are by Jackie Pauley, with additional 648 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,799 Speaker 1: production by Jeff Cleiburn and Connor Hall. The music in 649 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: this production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. 650 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on all social media platforms 651 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 1: at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can 652 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: also follow me on all platforms at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful 653 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a production of Lava for 654 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one