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Speaker 1: What's going on, buddy? Hey man, So we're almost back.

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Speaker 1: We just spent like fifteen minutes recapping all the countless

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Speaker 1: stories that we have regarding our travels, the good and

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Speaker 1: the bad, to each other, not to our audience. But

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Speaker 1: what's what's funny is that we had to we needed

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Speaker 1: to jump back into the office to record a couple

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Speaker 1: ad spots. We're just you know, we're trying to be

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Speaker 1: team players there for the network. It's tough to go

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Speaker 1: m I A for multiple weeks. Yes, yeah, but we are.

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Speaker 1: We figured, hey, how about a quick little intro and uh, the.

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Speaker 2: Honest truth is, nothing has happened while we're gone. No

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Speaker 2: big bills have passed. No fascinating.

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Speaker 1: I think the pause while we're going right exactly? The

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Speaker 1: world revolve around how the money?

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Speaker 2: There's there's so much to discuss upon our return, which

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Speaker 2: comes Wednesday. So if you're listening to this now, this

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Speaker 2: is our last bestie and we look forward to being

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Speaker 2: back with you. And actually Wednesday's episode is going to

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Speaker 2: be a recap of our sabbatical, what we've learned, what

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Speaker 2: we've taken away from from this time off. Matt, I

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Speaker 2: know for you it's been resortive for me too, So

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Speaker 2: forward to it. Man, a lot of interesting insights that

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Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to discussing with our audience on Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 2: and today we're talking about Jesus Christ, Super Saber, ancient wisdom,

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Speaker 2: and your money. So this is not our Andrew Lloyd

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Speaker 2: Weber version of seventies rock play or did you have

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Speaker 2: you ever seen Jesus Christ Super sar I have never

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Speaker 2: seen it.

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Speaker 1: So now, but it is a good one.

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Speaker 2: And we took inspiration from that title for this episode.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely and okay, so like not to launch into the

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Speaker 2: proverbial phrases too soon, But who it is that you

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Speaker 2: listen to will determine who it is that you become.

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Speaker 2: And so if you're listening listening to our podcast, you

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Speaker 2: listen to Joel and Matt talk about money, I think

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Speaker 2: there's a good chance you're gonna end up in a

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Speaker 2: maybe in a similar place as us, at least financially speaking,

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Speaker 2: compared to the rest of the world. Right, Like, certainly they're.

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Speaker 1: Gonna be differences between our finances and your finances. But

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Speaker 1: who it is that we listen to, what we fill

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Speaker 1: our minds with truly does have a massive impact on

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Speaker 1: our future.

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Speaker 2: Garbage and garbage out, all of these things that determine

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Speaker 2: your future. And so that's why we're essentially like revisiting

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Speaker 2: some of these seriously ancient truths and specifically we're gonna

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Speaker 2: look at how it is that they pertain to your money.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about the moves that you can make

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Speaker 2: and how this ancient wisdom can inform those moves. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to tap some biblical wisdom. We're gonna

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Speaker 2: tap some of the Stoics or thus the Jesus Christ

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Speaker 2: part exactly exactly, and we're gonna go out about doing

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Speaker 2: like we're gonna get Old Testament with Jesus Christ Buddha

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Speaker 2: in a Stoic walk into a bar kind of. But

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Speaker 2: we figured that started getting getting a little too long.

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Speaker 2: That was a little more heretical as well. Another title

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Speaker 2: idea for this episode, but I like what we went with.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, so hopefully in today's episode will cover a

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Speaker 2: bunch of ground. And I think Matt, especially in a

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Speaker 2: time where we rely on a lot of modern wisdom, well,

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Speaker 2: we thought it could be helpful to yeah, bring bring

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Speaker 2: out some ancient wisdom at the same time.

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Speaker 1: That's right, man, Okay, real quick, I've got a frugal

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Speaker 1: or cheap for you. A couple of weeks ago, some

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Speaker 1: friends of ours were throwing a party and this was

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Speaker 1: an adult's only party, so no kids allowed. So this

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Speaker 1: was after you put the kids down to bed kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. Oh yeah, no, I was definitely looking forward

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Speaker 1: to it. It was like creepy Tom cruise parties.

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Speaker 2: Is not that kind of not an eyes wide shut

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Speaker 2: whatever party, but a normal grown ups, adult party. And

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Speaker 2: specifically I failed to mention this. These were some neighbors

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Speaker 2: of ours directly across the street, and this raised the

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Speaker 2: question as to whether or not we should get a babysitter.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it led to a discussion. It wasn't an all

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Speaker 2: out argument, but we got close. We were discussing it,

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Speaker 2: and I felt that because it was going to just

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Speaker 2: be across the street, and because we have.

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Speaker 1: An older daughter now, that it was going to be

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Speaker 1: totally fine for us to put the kids down walk

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Speaker 1: across the street. Literally, we're gonna My idea was a

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Speaker 1: set up an iPad and if anything comes up, they

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Speaker 1: can just facetimeless. They all know how to use the iPad.

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Speaker 1: But you see where this is going. Kate disagreed with me.

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Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts? Do you feel that I

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Speaker 1: was being frugal or cheap by counting on our kids

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Speaker 1: to report if there was anything going on?

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Speaker 2: Oh well, I don't know, man, I'm somewhere in the

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Speaker 2: I think probably it's frugal. I think if you're across

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Speaker 2: the street, I think you could buy without a babysitter,

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Speaker 2: especially since you have a nine year old who's just

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Speaker 2: pretty smart.

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Speaker 1: She's pretty good. I mean, all the kids are pretty smart.

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Speaker 1: Held down the fort and plus if it was like

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Speaker 1: a real emergency and let's say the technology failed, they

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Speaker 1: could just like right across the street. Like literally, we

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Speaker 1: were right there. Kate disagreed, and I think she knew

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Speaker 1: before we ended the conferce, like we never reached a conclusion.

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Speaker 1: And then the next time I brought it up, she's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we've got a babysitter. And I mean truly, in the end,

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Speaker 1: I was like, all right, that's fine. I was willing

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Speaker 1: to pay a babysitter because it meant that she was

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Speaker 1: going to be able to relax, maybe have just a

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Speaker 1: better time. But that also kind of raises another question.

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Speaker 1: At what age would you feel comfortable leaving your oldest to,

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Speaker 1: like you said, hold down the fort Yeah, uh, not

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Speaker 1: necessarily just within the neighborhood, because it depends on distance.

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Speaker 1: It depends on to be gone, because I would trust

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Speaker 1: her now probably going across the street for an hour

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Speaker 1: because they she would know where we were. But part

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Speaker 1: of it, I don't know what.

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Speaker 2: Age, because part of so much of it depends on

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Speaker 2: how much sure she is right individual and so yeah,

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Speaker 2: how depends your circumstances with her younger siblings, especially as

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Speaker 2: they grow up, like can they listen to her? And

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Speaker 2: will they will they obey? So well, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: but I will say I think you guys, you did

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Speaker 2: mention that you expanded your budget for babysitting services, which

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Speaker 2: I think is which I think is smart that you

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Speaker 2: you've basically called out in your budget you've prioritized being

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Speaker 2: able to go out the two of you, and so

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Speaker 2: you probably wish you would have used it on uh

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Speaker 2: what different sort of day because you kind of think

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Speaker 2: that there's a way that you can do both at

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Speaker 2: the same time. Because I see the ability to a

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Speaker 2: hang out with some friends and be also not spend

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Speaker 2: the money because they're just right there. And again this

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Speaker 2: was we would have put them down, so they would

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Speaker 2: have been for the most part, especially the younger ones,

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Speaker 2: either as sleep or just reading quietly in their bed as.

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Speaker 1: They peacefully drifted off to sleep while we were hanging

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Speaker 1: out across the street.

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Speaker 2: What I think the other right thing to do is

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Speaker 2: if it's that big of a deal to your significant other,

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Speaker 2: you said it was, yeah, all right, I guess well,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to be It would be cheap then,

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Speaker 2: because it would make her upset and she would not

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Speaker 2: be able to enjoy her time. And so yeah, you

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Speaker 2: got to think about that as well, not just whether

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Speaker 2: you feel comfortable with it, but whether they feel comfortable

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Speaker 2: with it.

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Speaker 1: To your partner as well, I think yeah, speaking of

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Speaker 1: ancient wisdom, better defer to your partner, to your spouse.

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Speaker 2: What happy wife, happy life is always what I've heard,

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Speaker 2: but school it has some truth.

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Speaker 1: To it, Yeah it does. This is called sour Pipe

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Speaker 1: Project Apricot Crumble. This is a beer by Vitamin C Brewing.

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Speaker 1: And it's not vitamin C as in like vitamin AB

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Speaker 1: vitamin C. It's vitamin C as vitamin ocean. So I'm

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Speaker 1: looking forward to this brewery who happens to be located

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Speaker 1: by the ocean. We'll share our thoughts at the end

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Speaker 1: of the episode. Very nice, all R.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking forward to checking this out. Any anything

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Speaker 2: that beer that tastes like a pie, I want to

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Speaker 2: try it, so.

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Speaker 1: Fruited sours, lactose or pastry sours yea in particular. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: looking forward to it. All right, Well, Matt, let's let's

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Speaker 1: move on. Let's get to the subject at hand. We

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Speaker 1: are talking about ancient wisdom in this episode, and you

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Speaker 1: know it. As I thought about this, I was thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: what is it today that most of us use someone

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Speaker 1: regularly but it falls short of kind of what we're

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Speaker 1: used to.

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Speaker 2: Maybe quality has gone down the hill, and maybe kind

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Speaker 2: of maybe think of Akia for some reason, Like I

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Speaker 2: thought you're.

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Speaker 1: Gonna say, lead pipes, they'll make them like they use

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Speaker 1: true the brass knuckles. They're not, you know, quite as

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Speaker 1: thick as they used to be. Well, brass knuckles. I'm

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Speaker 1: not thinking.

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Speaker 2: I'm not talking about like gang fights. I'm thinking about

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Speaker 2: like actual pipes. Well, in your plummus, that's making a joke,

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Speaker 2: because lead pipes were terrible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah they were.

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Speaker 2: I thought you were like, talk about those chains someone

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Speaker 2: over the head with one.

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Speaker 1: But and you got you got your mind on what

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Speaker 1: was that motile game road rash Sega genesis. That's the

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Speaker 1: kind of lead pipe you're thinking of. That that's exactly what.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why, but uh yeah, he chose violence.

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Speaker 2: But I'm thinking about Ikea, and I'm thinking, like, we

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Speaker 2: have a few Ikea pieces in our house. Mostly we

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Speaker 2: do too for storage in our kids room. They're basically

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Speaker 2: like the cheap bookshelves, right, But nothing I've encountered in

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Speaker 2: Ikea as I'm walking through there has ever come close

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Speaker 2: to the beauty and the sturdiness that our favorite antique

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Speaker 2: furniture pieces that we have in our house possessed. Right.

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Speaker 2: I love my Brazilian rosewood table. Yeah, we have a

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Speaker 2: mid century teak desk. I didn't know you're so wealthy.

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Speaker 2: They're not even terribly expensive. We have seventy year old

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Speaker 2: walnut dressers. Matthew, you're just you're just bragging life of opulence.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's true, and and rich mahogany, the smell of leather.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but these are pieces we planned to have forever,

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Speaker 2: and they were not even terribly expensive pieces.

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Speaker 1: To begin with.

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Speaker 2: But they're a far cry from let's say, the Ikio

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Speaker 2: wardrobe that crumbled when we tried to move it that

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Speaker 2: one time. I swear we paid fifty dollars for that.

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Speaker 2: It lasted for a couple of years in the house.

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Speaker 2: We tried to move it and it basically disintegrated in

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Speaker 2: front of our eyes. Well, you know, and that could

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Speaker 2: just just evaporates, right, yes, where did it go? Teleported

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Speaker 2: to another realm? It's like the snap I knows right well,

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Speaker 2: And that could just be maybe because our skills with

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Speaker 2: an alan rent aren't very good, and so it lasts

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Speaker 2: for a minute.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I think it made me think that no one really

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Speaker 2: ever gets jazzed about inheriting their parents' callax shelving unit

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Speaker 2: or something like that. Right, But that one hundred year

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Speaker 2: old mahogany chest, that's a different story. It's like this

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Speaker 2: family heirloom, and the way it's crafted and made is

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Speaker 2: you might be thrilled to get that one of these days.

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Speaker 2: And I think the same is true when it comes

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Speaker 2: to modern advice. Right, there's some good stuff out there,

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Speaker 2: but the best of it is actually based on ancient

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Speaker 2: wisdom that has stood the test of time, and so

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Speaker 2: we want to really talk about older money advice that's

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Speaker 2: been around for hundreds and hundreds of years. Delve into

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Speaker 2: that and see maybe what it has to say to

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Speaker 2: us today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so, okay, I'm not on TikTok, but I've

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Speaker 1: seen some of the videos that are out there that

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Speaker 1: masquerade as financial advice that's flitting around there on the platform,

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Speaker 1: out there in the ether. And if you are only

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Speaker 1: listening to folks on TikTok, for instance, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of wisdom that you're missing out on when we only

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Speaker 1: pay attention to, you know, like influencers on some of

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Speaker 1: the different social media platforms. And that's not to say

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Speaker 1: that there aren't solid folks out there who are doing

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Speaker 1: decent work in the short form format. There definitely are.

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Speaker 1: But the best wisdom, the best advice, stands the test

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Speaker 1: of time, like you said, And you know, we're not

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Speaker 1: just picking on social media as well. There's crappy financial

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Speaker 1: advice even in legacy media, you know, like the more

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Speaker 1: traditional forms of media.

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Speaker 2: Oh, even in some of the bigger papers, the TV papers, blogs.

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Speaker 2: There's bad books out there as.

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Speaker 1: Well, just because you get a publishing deal or you

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Speaker 1: self published, that doesn't necessarily mean that there is good

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Speaker 1: advice within that book, within the text. So in today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be pulling from the Bible. We're gonna be

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Speaker 1: talking about Stoicism and just some of these other wisdom

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Speaker 1: traditions from hundreds to thousands of years before time, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll connect that ancient wisdom to like a modern

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Speaker 1: implementation in order to help you to determine what it

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Speaker 1: is that you should be doing with your money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you just mentioned books, Matt, and it makes

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Speaker 2: me think like most of the books that people read

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Speaker 2: these days are actually new books, right, and yet we

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Speaker 2: have so many rich books from years and years and

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Speaker 2: years ago that we just never even touched. And I

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Speaker 2: subscribe to this newsletter actually, it's called read More Books,

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Speaker 2: and this guy, Jeremy Anderberg runs it and he reads

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Speaker 2: one hundred plus books a year, and so I just

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Speaker 2: kind of want to, you know, as somebody who's an

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Speaker 2: avid reader who writes a newsletter about it, I'm constantly curious, well,

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Speaker 2: what is it that he's reading and maybe is there

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Speaker 2: something worth reading for me? And he just wrote a

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Speaker 2: top ten list that includes some of his takeaways from

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Speaker 2: having read more than a thousand books, which is impressive.

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Speaker 2: And one suggestion that he gave, which I thought was

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Speaker 2: just helpful, was to not read the new shiny books

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Speaker 2: that get marketed to us, to spend more time with

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Speaker 2: the classics. And I think he's spot on there. I

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Speaker 2: couldn't agree more. I think the same is true when

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Speaker 2: it comes to helpful thoughts on money right there are,

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Speaker 2: like you admitted, Matt, some great personal finance influencers giving

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Speaker 2: really helpful advice on some of the socials on Twitter,

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Speaker 2: on Instagram, whatever it is. But the more we can

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Speaker 2: incorporate ancient wisdom alongside folks who are good at translating

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Speaker 2: it for modern ears, the more thorough our understanding and

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Speaker 2: connection to this subject that has this massive impact, this

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Speaker 2: massive influence on all of us is going to be.

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Speaker 1: And it's not necessarily that old books are automatically good

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Speaker 1: or wise or better. It's important to be are automatically dustier.

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Speaker 1: But we want folks to be thoughtful about which ancient

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Speaker 1: wisdom texts that we look at, that we read, that

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Speaker 1: we listen to. Makes me think about a book that

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Speaker 1: we've been checking out that came out recently called superabundance.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of newer books, this is a newer book, but

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Speaker 1: it's a quality book and it's pretty nerdy. It's written

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Speaker 1: by two economists, but at the beginning of the book,

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Speaker 1: they're basically going through some of these different economists views

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Speaker 1: of how humanity would progress over the These are predictions

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Speaker 1: that were made, like, I mean, hundreds of.

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Speaker 2: Years ago, sixteen, seventeen hundred stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, most of them were way off. We're seriously off.

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Speaker 1: And they often thought that the earth was becoming overpopulated

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Speaker 1: and that we would basically run out of resources, that

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Speaker 1: civilization would collapse. And that's often referred to as the

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Speaker 1: Malthusian view because Thomas Robert Malthus perhaps I think that's

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Speaker 1: his middle name, he was the most famous person arguing

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Speaker 1: from that vantage point. But this, you know, this book

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Speaker 1: is all about just how wrong his views have come

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Speaker 1: to be over the years. You know, instead of fewer resources,

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Speaker 1: we've got Malthusian refutation.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, we've got more resources these days. Instead of

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Speaker 2: fewer calories per person that are available to us now,

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Speaker 2: food is it's widely plentiful, even if some of those

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Speaker 2: resources aren't being properly matched to those who need it

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Speaker 2: in the immediate short term could go on and on.

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Speaker 2: Human ingenuity has just proven to overcome these resource limitations,

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Speaker 2: and so, you know, while we are certainly critical of

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Speaker 2: a lot of the modern advice that is dispensed today,

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Speaker 2: it's important to question the validity of old advice as well.

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Speaker 2: Don't just take it as cannon. Don't don't just take

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Speaker 2: it as you know, truth, just because it was written

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Speaker 2: to three hundred plus years ago. And in fact, depending

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Speaker 2: on what topic you're delving into there, there's probably a

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Speaker 2: lot that's changed scientifically, geographically, like our understanding, a lot

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Speaker 2: of things that we've developed, and so you don't want

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Speaker 2: to go back that far.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, if you're a doctor, don't look back at

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Speaker 1: some of the old texts like blood letting. Hell, how

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Speaker 1: that should be something that we don't.

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Speaker 2: Go watch snake and then perform surgery like that, Like

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Speaker 2: that's not that's probably not a good approach. But one

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Speaker 2: of the reasons that ancient wisdom often holds up is

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Speaker 2: because even though the times have changed, human nature hasn't.

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Speaker 2: And even though our financial systems and the products that

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Speaker 2: are available to us wouldn't have been recognizable even just

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Speaker 2: a couple hundred years ago. The emotions that humans possess

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Speaker 2: remain just as true and consistent as ever. Even though

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Speaker 2: there are better tools at our disposal, we still have

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Speaker 2: a hard time using them appropriately and effectively because scarcity, jealousy, greed, like,

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Speaker 2: people were dealing with all those things, all those emotions

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Speaker 2: thousands of years ago. But it's not like we've been

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Speaker 2: able to eradicate them in any way form more fashion like.

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Speaker 2: We're still dealing with them today just as much, if

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Speaker 2: not more so. And so, yeah, some things never change

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Speaker 2: because human nature never really changes. And this is also

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Speaker 2: why we're able to take a neutral stance when it

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Speaker 2: comes to, you know, whether or not something like money

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Speaker 2: is a good or bad thing. Right, It's not inherently

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Speaker 2: either one of those things, because it comes down to

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Speaker 2: what the individual is doing with that money. You can

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Speaker 2: you can use the tool for good or for bad,

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Speaker 2: but it all comes down really to how you wield it.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, money is not inherently virtuous, right, it

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Speaker 1: is a completely passive tool. So we're gonna go back

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Speaker 1: even for though than just some of the economists and

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Speaker 1: predictions that were made a few hundred years ago, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna go back further. We're gonna focus less on economists

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Speaker 1: and their ilk. We're more interested in these time tested

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Speaker 1: passages from literally from millennia past that ring true then

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Speaker 1: but also have a similar residence today. We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about how those truths apply to your money. We'll

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Speaker 1: get to that right after this break. All right, Matt,

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Speaker 1: let's keep going with us. Let's talk money in ancient wisdom,

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Speaker 1: and maybe let's start with the Hebrew Bible in fact,

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Speaker 1: where specifically there's a lot of proverbs that speak to money,

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Speaker 1: and they speak to a life well lived. And the

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Speaker 1: thing is, you don't have to be Jewish or be

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Speaker 1: a Christian to gain value from the wisdom, the copious

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Speaker 1: amounts of wisdom that spring from the sixty six books

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Speaker 1: in the Bible, the books in the Old Testament, or

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Speaker 1: as the Hebrew Bible. Right, And the reality is that

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Speaker 1: our whole society is infused with Judeo Christian ethics. They

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Speaker 1: form the basis of much of our cultural reality. Our

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Speaker 1: country was largely founded on a lot of those ethical citations.

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Speaker 1: Are our legal structures as well that govern our country today.

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Speaker 2: Right, But I think it can be hard for us

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Speaker 2: to see that because it's the water we swim in

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Speaker 2: and we're like, what's water.

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Speaker 1: Well, it is truly.

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Speaker 2: Kind of all around us, So it can be hard

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Speaker 2: if you're not looking for it to see that it's

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Speaker 2: kind of the reality of the world around us in

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Speaker 2: so many ways, and that much of the wisdom from

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Speaker 2: those traditions kind of feels less accessible to us today.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's.

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Speaker 2: Because our nation isn't nearly as steeped in the wisdom

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Speaker 2: literature from these two monotheistic religions, not nearly as much

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Speaker 2: as we used to be, at least sure, And that's

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Speaker 2: not We're not no judgment here, but we do think

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Speaker 2: that religious or not, spending more time with these books

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Speaker 2: can help us better understand ourselves, the people around us,

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Speaker 2: and the society that we living. And we think that

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Speaker 2: spending some time with the Proverbs, with some of this

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Speaker 2: wisdom literature can help us understand money better too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. You know what's really interesting is I bet there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of folks out there who know way

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Speaker 1: more Bible verses than they realize because they just thought

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Speaker 1: that they were just staying that their grandma said. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're like, grandma was so wise and it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: I think she was wise, but I think she also

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Speaker 1: just knew the Bible, or she knew a lot of

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Speaker 1: verses and.

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Speaker 2: Was in touch with ancient wisdom more than we are.

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Speaker 1: Now exactly exactly, and so like one that kind of

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Speaker 1: falls within that vein is Proverbs chapter sixteen, verse eighteen,

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Speaker 1: which is pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before

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Speaker 1: the fall. I think a lot of times in my

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Speaker 1: mind at Lea's always shortened that one to like pride

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Speaker 1: goes before the fall. Yeah, but in reality it's, uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not quite that one.

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Speaker 2: Let's just abbreviate that monern wisdom or the ancient wisdom

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Speaker 2: that it's a yeah, the how to money translation. Proverbs

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Speaker 2: is just one of those books though that it's it's

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Speaker 2: considered wisdom literature. And instead of these the card and

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Speaker 2: fast rules of what you can and can't.

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Speaker 1: Do, they're more like rules of thumb. And this one

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Speaker 1: is it's basically stating that the more prideful we are,

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Speaker 1: the more likely we are to end up in a

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Speaker 1: bad place. You know. Like we actually had an episode

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Speaker 1: not too long ago where we talked about the characteristics

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Speaker 1: of great investors and humility that was up there as

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Speaker 1: one of the most important characteristics that we that we

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Speaker 1: think folks should embody when it comes to getting far

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Speaker 1: with their money. And because the fact is that we're

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Speaker 1: too prideful to take important helpful advice or for just

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Speaker 1: even unwilling to admit that we don't know everything, there's

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Speaker 1: a good chance that it's gonna wreck havoc within our lives.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe can we give kind of

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Speaker 2: a modern example of this match. I think maybe that'll

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Speaker 2: help connect the dots.

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Speaker 1: Well, plenty of examples of their side in our world today,

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Speaker 1: there's so many.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, we could spend the whole rest of

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Speaker 2: the episode giving examples, but I just made me think

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Speaker 2: of everyone's good friend. Kanye West was on CNBC recently

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Speaker 2: talking about his breakup with The Gap, and you know,

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Speaker 2: he has helped the Gap be I guess more successful,

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Speaker 2: which is not just that's not saying a whole lot

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Speaker 2: because The Gap has been pretty pathetic for whole lot

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Speaker 2: of years now. But yeah, they have now parted ways,

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Speaker 2: and so yeah, Kanye was on CNBC and he basically

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Speaker 2: told the host that he refuses to take advice from

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Speaker 2: people who have less money than he does. And of

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Speaker 2: course the interviewer, she was pretty speechless because that's just odd.

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Speaker 2: But that's Kanye for you, right, And I don't know,

433
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 2: but his response to me it was telling because he

434
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,360
Speaker 2: thinks he's the only guy in the room who knows

435
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 2: what he's doing. He thinks he's the most talented. And

436
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 2: when you think of yourself in that way, you're a

437
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 2: bound to make bigger mistakes at some point. And whether

438
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,399
Speaker 2: that's because there truly is someone who has more knowledge

439
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,679
Speaker 2: than you do, maybe it's because they're simply able to

440
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,919
Speaker 2: provide a different perspective, or maybe it has more to

441
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,240
Speaker 2: do with the social impacts of someone who's prideful. Right

442
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,240
Speaker 2: either way, like to say that you can't accept advice

443
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 2: from someone who is less financially successful than you are,

444
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 2: to me, reflects a pretty prideful spirits and a lack

445
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 2: of realizing that we can learn from all sorts of

446
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,679
Speaker 2: people around us, Like you know what, I could learn

447
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 2: something from Kanye, even despite his kind of erratic behavior.

448
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 2: And the more that we are on the lookout for

449
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 2: wisdom from the mouths of others, I think the better

450
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 2: off we're going to be.

451
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 1: That's right, man. Yeah, let's keep moving. Then let's snag

452
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,679
Speaker 1: another one from Proverbs. This is from chapter twenty two.

453
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 1: Verse one reads, A good name is more desirable than

454
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: great riches, to be esteemed is better than silver or gold.

455
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 1: And so basically what this one is saying is that

456
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 1: money is not everything. So you kind of gave Kanye

457
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 1: as an example, which he.

458
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 2: Always did a Sunday service thing. I feel like we

459
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:32,680
Speaker 2: could go there and read somebody.

460
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 1: Because he found Jesus according maybe he has, maybe he hasn't.

461
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's not for me to decide or

462
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 1: to judge. But you gave him as an example. My

463
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 1: mind kind of drifts off to somebody else who basically

464
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: completely ruined the reputation, which is Bernie made off. Let's

465
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: imagine that even though he had done all the terrible

466
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,719
Speaker 1: things he didn't Let's imagine that he had somehow avoided

467
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: going to jail, he had managed to hang on to

468
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 1: all his money. Would you rather be the guy or

469
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: the girl with ludicrous, ridiculous amounts of money got billions

470
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: in the bank but everyone hates you, or would you

471
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 1: rather just be a regular person with average assets who

472
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: has a solid reputation, where you're able to live just

473
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: a fulfilling and happy life. And while there might be

474
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 1: some folks out there who might be tempted to, I

475
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 1: think truly you would know that that would not lead

476
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 1: to you being happy, because you know, a lot of

477
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 1: us here are We're keen to build wealth, right, We're

478
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: here to develop better money habits, but we obviously don't

479
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: want to do it at the expense of our integrity.

480
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: I just saw a recent survey actually showing that folks

481
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: they care more about being respected at work then they

482
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,360
Speaker 1: care actually about making more money. I think there's totally

483
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 1: something to that. Even if there are, if there's like

484
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,719
Speaker 1: this underlying truth that folks aren't even aware of, like

485
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: I think that those desires are pointing to like a

486
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 1: higher and more ultimate truth. We would all be more

487
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 1: than happy to get a twenty percent raise tomorrow, But

488
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: if that came alongside a boss who doesn't respect us,

489
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,400
Speaker 1: or maybe who puts us down constantly, that fatter paycheck,

490
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,360
Speaker 1: it is not going to keep us around very long. Ultimately,

491
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: it's not a the money. It's also about how we're

492
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: treated as individuals and the other things that matter in life.

493
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: You're talking, when you're talking about Kanye. It also makes

494
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: me think about just how somebody who's prideful, there are

495
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: just social barriers that get like these morays and norms

496
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: and traditions that also just get pushed to the side

497
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: with somebody who's prideful, and so feelings get hurt, bridges

498
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: get burned, and there are individuals who are like, all right, well,

499
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 1: even if that guy is like the smartest guy in

500
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 1: the room, or even if that guy is the most

501
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 1: wealthy person around, I.

502
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 2: Don't like how he treats people. I don't like how

503
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 2: he treats me. And it makes you not necessarily want

504
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 2: to do business with somebody like that. We've all known

505
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 2: somebody who was the best at something, are just really

506
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: really good at something, but because of how prideful they are,

507
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 2: because of how how much of a show off they

508
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 2: might be, it's like we just don't want to hang

509
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 2: around them. And it doesn't matter that they're brilliant and

510
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: a brilliant designer or something like that. It's like, I

511
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 2: just I'd rather work with the second most brilliant designer

512
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 2: because the person who is the best at this is

513
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 2: just too tough to get along with. Mm hmm, well, okay,

514
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 2: so we're going to get past just the Proverbs, Matt,

515
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 2: But there's just really is when we're talking about old

516
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 2: school wisdom literature that has a lot to say to

517
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 2: us today about money, Proverbs is really the place to start.

518
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 2: We're going to get to some of the Stoics, we're

519
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: even going to get to some New Testament Christianity. But

520
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 2: something else from Proverbs twenty two real quick about death?

521
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, Proverbs twenty two is a good one.

522
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's definitely one more looking at it, there's

523
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: a lot of the well verse seven says the rich

524
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 2: rule over the poor, and the borrower is serventh to

525
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 2: the lender. And yeah, we've talked about having loads of

526
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 2: debt how it can impact your mental faculties, right, how

527
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 2: debt kind of makes you dumber. The reality is, like

528
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 2: study show that if you're walking around up to your

529
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 2: eyeballs in debt, you're going to lose something like ten

530
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 2: to twelve points off your IQ. It's going to be

531
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 2: more difficult to make smart decisions if you're hanging onto

532
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 2: boat loads of debt. But of course the truth is

533
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: that when you have loads of debt, right, each paycheck

534
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 2: requires payments to your credits are so money that's coming

535
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 2: in every two weeks, well a good portion of it

536
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: is going out in order to pay the piper. And

537
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 2: we don't want you to be a house We don't

538
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 2: want you to be a servant to the credit card companies,

539
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: to Visa or to American Express. And that doesn't mean

540
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 2: that all debt is dumb either. Right. We talked about

541
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 2: that the strategic use of debt in episode five sixty six.

542
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 2: The principle I think we can extract here is that

543
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: going overboard on debt, owing too many folks too much

544
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 2: money creates an imbalance in your life that can put

545
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 2: you in a precarious position. And matter as we read

546
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: that little passage right that the borrower is servant to

547
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 2: the lender. I think sometimes that's been abused and it's

548
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 2: basically told people that, like, debt is not okay regardless

549
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 2: of circumstances. Ever, Yeah, it's been used as like a

550
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 2: bludgeon to hit people over the head with to see

551
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 2: how stupid debt is. Well, that's what we were trying

552
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 2: to avoid talking about the strategic use of debt when

553
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 2: we discussed it. And it makes me think of a

554
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: friend who decided to pay off his student loans, even

555
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: though based on where he was working, he was going

556
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 2: to be eligible to have those loans forgiven. And he

557
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: not only did he use money that he had on

558
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 2: hand to pay off student loan debt early that would

559
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 2: have been forgiven. What he opted to do was to

560
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 2: sell some of his assets, to sell some of his

561
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 2: investments to pay off those loans early. And now that

562
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: he stepped back from the movies made years ago, he

563
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 2: has a little more wisdom. He wishes he hadn't have

564
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 2: done it, because the truth is that debt would have

565
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: been forgiven, and on the flip side, his investments would

566
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 2: have seen quite an increase. And so while it is

567
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 2: true that the borrower is serving to the lender, there's

568
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 2: a lot of truth in that phrase. It's also, like

569
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 2: you said, these are rules of thumb coming from the proverbs.

570
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 2: It's basically wise counsel pointing us in the right direction,

571
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 2: not telling us exactly how to behave in every instance.

572
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, But simultaneously, I mean, I would say that

573
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: if there is somebody out there who feels that based

574
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: on like because of principle, that they want to pay

575
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 1: off all debts that they owe, even though that there

576
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: is a chance of it getting forgiven. I personally would

577
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: take advantage of any sort of forgiveness program. But that

578
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: being said, I do think that folks can fall on

579
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: different sides of that fence. And while he may have

580
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: changed his mind, had he not changed his mind, and

581
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: in retrospect, if he was just like nope, still think

582
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: that that was a wise decision. I totally would stand

583
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: by anybody who feels that they are making the right

584
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 1: decision for them personally.

585
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 2: Well, we've talked about that with some of our friends

586
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 2: or you know, guests on the show who have paid

587
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: off a mortgage early, right, and we've said that's not

588
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 2: that's not what we're gonna do. But it makes sense

589
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 2: to us from a psychological and a money perspect exactly

590
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 2: if that debt is frustrating you to the point where

591
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 2: you've got to get rid of it and you'd rather

592
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 2: prioritize that over other things, that's okay. But it's also

593
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, there's there's wisdom here in not taking

594
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 2: this little passage as something that says like I must

595
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 2: sell all my possessions get to get rid of my

596
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 2: debt before I do anything else.

597
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: Exactly. All right, let's talk about some fancy living. And

598
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: this is another one from Proverbs. This is from chapter

599
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: twenty one and in verse seventeen, it says that whoever

600
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: loves pleasure will become poor, whoever loves wine and olive

601
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: oil will never be rich. And craft bear does the

602
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: same thing about craft beer.

603
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: Matt, I feel there's a there's a slight sense of

604
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 2: judge not judgement tradiction. Yeah, that's the I guess that's

605
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 2: maybe what I'm feeling a little bit, because obviously back

606
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 2: then wine and olive oil they were delicacies in ancient times.

607
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, is this proverb saying that you can't

608
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: like nice things? Well, no, but it is possible to

609
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: put too much emphasis on them if we say that

610
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: we love craft beer. And oftentimes I think maybe we

611
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: use the word love too often. But there's a difference

612
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: between saying that, like, oh man, I really love craft

613
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: beer versus in my heart it being something that completes

614
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: me and not just fancy food or drink, but anything

615
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 1: I think can kind of take that place in your heart.

616
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: And this one's interesting too, because I think it's a

617
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: warning to those who are successful, right, because if you

618
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: might be listening and you're thinking, well, all right, that's fine,

619
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: but I've got zero temptation to do that in my life.

620
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: I'm living paycheck to paycheck. I'm barely making enough to

621
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: pay for the essentials. Well, definitely still pay attention. But

622
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: this is a warning to those who are at the

623
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: stage and their wealth building game that they have a

624
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: little bit more disposable income, they have the ability, they've

625
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: got a little more margin on hand, and they're thinking, oh, well,

626
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 1: what am I going to spend my money on now?

627
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: And you start to spend it on some of these

628
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: nicer things, which I believe can be a slippery slope.

629
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: I think if by spending a little bit, if that

630
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: puts you on this path to losing control of your

631
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: spending and where it is that your money is going,

632
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: I think it's better to not have spent that money

633
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: at all on that thing and to have never experienced

634
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: this thing that could have brought you some joy in

635
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: your life if it means that you're going to see

636
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: a lot more of your money going to waste and

637
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: potentially your life even ruined as well.

638
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 2: All right, makes me think of Dittio's robe. We've talked

639
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: about that on the show before. Right, the French philosopher

640
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: the ditero effect. Yeah, who gets a new robe and

641
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 2: for some reason everything else in his life looks tinge

642
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: like he was frugal and he gets this one nice

643
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: new piece of clothing, and then all of a sudden

644
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 2: he goes bankrupt, basically trying to update everything else around him.

645
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: And I think that is You're right, that's a real problem.

646
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 2: We're going to give kind of the counter balance point

647
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: to that in a little bit when we go over

648
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 2: some stoic advice, Matt.

649
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: But it is true.

650
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: I think you're right that it's easy to fall in

651
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: love with nice things, and once we've started incorporating more

652
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: nice things into our lives, it's hard for us to

653
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: go back. We assumans, we have a hard time. Once

654
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: you start getting your house clean twice a month, it's

655
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 2: hard to go back to once a month, right, stuff

656
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: like that. So you have to be careful about what

657
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: you bring in on the front end, and me, let's

658
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 2: do something else. From the Bible, from Christian tradition, this

659
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: is finally not in the Proverbs. This is from Luke

660
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: chapter twelve. This is a parable that Jesus tells about

661
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: storing up possessions for yourself here on earth. And this

662
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 2: farmer he harvests crops, and he yields just such a

663
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: bounty that he decides to not only just build bigger storehouses,

664
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 2: but teared on the old ones so that he can

665
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 2: build bigger ones in their stead and that once he

666
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: has those built and his massive harvest stored, he can

667
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:40,959
Speaker 2: just eat, drink and be merry. He doesn't even have

668
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 2: to think about the future anymore. He's got himself set

669
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 2: for life. And I think there's a sense in which

670
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,959
Speaker 2: maybe we all think like that, that our pursuit of

671
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 2: financial independence is going to allow us to not have

672
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: to rely on anyone or anything. But while Jesus is speaking,

673
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 2: he's basically speaking to the where we pin our eternal

674
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: hope in this passage. But a simple and practical lesson

675
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: behind this parable two is that life is fleeting, and

676
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 2: this guy, he decides to build these bigger barns that

677
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: he can store his stuff and then just chill axe right,

678
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: just rest on his laurels, hang out, sip lemonade in

679
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: his rocking chair. But the reality is that not a

680
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 2: single one of us knows if we're gonna wake up

681
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 2: tomorrow to enjoy the fruits of our labor. You know,

682
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: eventually we're all gonna die, which which actually, probably Matt,

683
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: makes it a good time for us to start talking

684
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: about the Stoics their wisdom because they were were kind

685
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: of hyper focused on the ultimate reality, that's all.

686
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: Right, keeping that the eventuality of death front and center

687
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: on the tippy tops of their minds, that's right.

688
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we'll talk about some some Stoic wisdom. We'll

689
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: even get into a little bit of Buddhism, and we'll

690
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 2: get to we'll get to that ancient wisdom and how

691
00:31:48,800 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: it intersects with our money right after this break. All right,

692
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 2: now that we wrapped up that Jesus Christ Super Savior segments,

693
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 2: we can move on to the Stoics. It still cracks

694
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: me up to say that out loud. Yeah, it's a

695
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: good title, the Stoics.

696
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: All right. So when you think about the fact that

697
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: these folks lived in ancient Greece, like like two thousand

698
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: years ago, it is impressive to hear some of the

699
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: wisdom that they possessed. And so the Stoic philosophy, it's

700
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: all about building resilience and that no matter what circumstances

701
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: you are born into that, you will grow into confidence

702
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: that you can take on anything. It's no surprise that

703
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: I feel like stoicism is sort of making a comeback today,

704
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: whether that's just sort of the current financial crisis or

705
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: the you know where markets are, just the kind of

706
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: world that we live in today. But there's a lot

707
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: of great truths that we can take from stoicism and

708
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: apply those two not only our lives, but to personal

709
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: finances as well.

710
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 2: I think living in a time of abundance like we

711
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: have now, like there's even more necessity for self restraint.

712
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: And the Stoics really talked about that a great deal, right, Yeah, yeah,

713
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: because at the time, like Greek civilization was at its pinnacle,

714
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: like it was at the peak, but they.

715
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 2: Also realized that that partaking in that e gorging yourself

716
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: on the abundance was not bringing about that happiness ultimate fulfillment.

717
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally agree. And that's yeah, it's really interesting because

718
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: there's certainly a parallel to that today within our world

719
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: where we have the most comfort, the most information at

720
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: our fingertips as well, it's like we last.

721
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: Wealth, even the poorest among us have more wealth. Yes,

722
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: really was imaginable throughout most of history.

723
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and just the internet, like literally we

724
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: were we lack very little in our modern age, in

725
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: particular in this country.

726
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So epictetis Man. He's one of the

727
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 2: most fascinating stoics to me, partly because he was born

728
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 2: into slavery and his name literally means the acquired one,

729
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: and he spent the first thirty years of his life

730
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 2: in chains. And he once said that wealth consists not

731
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: in having great possessions, but in having few wants. That's

732
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: that's the quote I remember from him most. And then Seneca,

733
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: another of the great Stoke philosopher, said that contented poverty

734
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 2: is an honorable estate. And I think those two quotes

735
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 2: really go together for me because at the heart of

736
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 2: both of them is the ability to be completely satisfied

737
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 2: with where you're at in life, even if you're lot

738
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 2: in life, even if the place where you are isn't

739
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 2: where you want to be, even if there's a lot

740
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: of progress left to be made. But to realize that

741
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 2: getting more money, more possessions, a bigger house, a nicer car,

742
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 2: that they're not actually going to bring fulfillment. We would

743
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 2: say it's wise to desire the upside of wealth without

744
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 2: being dependent on it. And I think it's really easy, Matt,

745
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: for us to think that once we cross a certain threshold,

746
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 2: whether it's net worthwise, or whether it's success in our

747
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 2: career wise, whether it's achieving the position or a certain

748
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 2: amount of podcast downloads or something like that, that that's

749
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: going to make you happy. The truth is, oh, it will.

750
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: The truth is once you get to that point, there's

751
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 2: always a next hill to climb, and so it never

752
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: does really make you happy as a human, and so

753
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 2: you have to find your contentedness in other places, right,

754
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 2: and being able to, yeah, see kind of how the

755
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 2: Stoic's travel to do it, how they thought about it,

756
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,439
Speaker 2: I think can be really informative to how we start

757
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 2: to think about our own trajectory.

758
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: And you know, we're constantly moving the goalposts. And so, yeah,

759
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: while you're talking about how we often seek after more possessions,

760
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: here's another banger from Seneca, which is it is the

761
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: quality rather than the quantity that matters. This is a

762
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 1: great one.

763
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 2: Because it feels like our society it's often focused on

764
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: just acquiring more stuff, you know, like not just finding

765
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 2: fulfillment in those things, but just more and more. You know,

766
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,720
Speaker 2: it's sort of like the bigger is better kind of mantra.

767
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 2: But we feel, for instance, it's way better to focus

768
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: on quality over quantity.

769
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: We think it's better to have like quality relationships rather

770
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: than a slew of acquaintances, and spending our money on

771
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: quality items is something worth prioritizing as well, like in

772
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: a world of fast fashion and prepackaged foods, disposable toys,

773
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: a world of plastic. Basically, it's helpful to rethink our

774
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: spending patterns. And you know, at least for me, that's

775
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 1: meant buying fewer things, but oftentimes more just expensive ones

776
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: as it pertains to quality because they're going to last

777
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: for a much longer time.

778
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 2: It's like those antique pieces versus the key pieces that

779
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 2: we talked about at the beginning.

780
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: Exactly, and not a disparaged ikea. There's a time and

781
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: place and depending on where you are in life. But simultaneously, yeah,

782
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,839
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot that can be learned not

783
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: only from buying higher quality items that are going to last,

784
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: but also the different things that we pour our time

785
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: and energy into as well.

786
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, are another good one from Seneca because he was

787
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 2: full of them. He said that until we begin to

788
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 2: go without them, we fail to realize how unnecessary many

789
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 2: things are. And I mean, that's so ridiculously true. We

790
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: would suggest that it would be helpful, a helpful exercise,

791
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 2: to walk through your house finding objects that you really

792
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 2: wanted at one point. We all have those, and then

793
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: things maybe you thought you couldn't live without, in order

794
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 2: to see whether or not they're making you happy, whether

795
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 2: they're paying dividends, and are you still you using that

796
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: what was a must have item?

797
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: Are you using it regularly?

798
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 2: And a good place to start would probably be your closet,

799
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 2: right you still have tags on those new items you

800
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 2: purchased months and months ago saying that you, oh, man,

801
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 2: I can't wait to wear this. This is going to

802
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 2: be the perfect piece for this in this occasion. Well so,

803
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 2: so many of the things we identify as needs are

804
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 2: actually just once right, And we would do well to

805
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 2: think about the things we've purchased that are actually unnecessary

806
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 2: and to keep this lesson front of mind for future purchases.

807
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 2: And it might even be helpful to purposely go without

808
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 2: some things and start to clear out some of the

809
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: items in your house you aren't using us frequently to

810
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: give away to people who who might use us things

811
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: more with more regularity. But the truth is a lot

812
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: of us have probably a lot of unnecessary things floating

813
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 2: around our house, things that cost us money to buy,

814
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 2: and that cost us time to produce the money. And

815
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: when the reality is that our time is our most

816
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: important asset, we have often squandered it in the pursuit

817
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 2: of things that aren't really moving the needle for us.

818
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: That's right. Well, so, actually, as you're talking about being

819
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: charitable market Aurelius, he is another one of the most

820
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: famous Stoic philosophers out there. He said that the only

821
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: wealth which you keep forever is the wealth that you

822
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,919
Speaker 1: have given away. And you know, I feel that we've

823
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: lost the understanding of this in our culture. You know

824
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: that always does want to have more. But it is

825
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: so true that when you, you know, give your time

826
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: your money away, that you do become a happier person.

827
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: Oftentimes the folks who are most generous are the ones

828
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: who I actually have the least amount of possessions. But

829
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 1: you know, we think that giving your money away regularly

830
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: to causes to folks or you know who you're passionate about,

831
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: who you want to see advanced in the world that

832
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: that is going to allow you to see your money

833
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: do good around you, also giving you a healthier relationship

834
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 1: with money in general.

835
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've always said that giving your money away gives

836
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 2: you a more healthy relationship to your money, lessening your

837
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: attachment to something that is a tool right and that

838
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 2: you can use for good, but that you can use

839
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 2: to see good happen in the world around you, specifically

840
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 2: through nonprofits or in generosity to individuals who are in

841
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 2: nearby where you live. And Matt, I want to hit

842
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: one more from Seneca, who he said, for the wise

843
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: man does not consider himself unworthy of any gifts from

844
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: fortune's hand. He does not love wealth, but he would

845
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 2: rather have it. He does not admit it into his heart,

846
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 2: but into his home, and what wealth is his, he

847
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 2: does not reject, but keeps wishing it to supply greater

848
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 2: scope for him to practice his virtue. And I really

849
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 2: love this one because, Yeah, I think you know you

850
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: and I we really believe that building wealth is a

851
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 2: good thing. Obviously, we talk about it a lot on

852
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: this on this podcast, but it's important to ask ourselves,

853
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 2: is our pursuit of building wealth helping us become more

854
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 2: of who we want to be, or is it detracting

855
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: from it? And I think at different points in my life, Matt,

856
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: I've found that my attempts at building well, I've been

857
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 2: so focused on the money side of my life that

858
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 2: I've been missing out on things that are actually more important.

859
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 2: And I think what Seneca is speaking to here. He's

860
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,839
Speaker 2: talking about not letting the wealth we acquire get too

861
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 2: close to our hearts, influencing and changing who we are.

862
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: And so I think you can do both those things simultaneously.

863
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 2: I think I think you can rather have wealth, like

864
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: he says, without loving it, but keeping keeping wealth really

865
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: in a healthy spot in your life, where it is

866
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: something that you are keen to build, keen to preserve,

867
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 2: but that gets demoted down the list of biggest priorities

868
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 2: in your life.

869
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I love the casualness of it. You know,

870
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 1: he would rather have it. He does not love money.

871
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 2: There's this sort of like not lase fair approach, but

872
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 2: just kind of like a casual, open handed It's not

873
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: something that you're clinging to, it's not something that you're

874
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: striving after, it's not ambivalence. Somewhere in between there right, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

875
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: So we've said a lot, We've quoted a bunch from Seneca,

876
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: but he also talks about the like what is the

877
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: proper amount of wealth for an individual to have? And

878
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,439
Speaker 1: he says, first of all, it's having enough money that

879
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: you're able to cover the essential things in life. But

880
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 1: then secondly, it's just simply having enough, which I love

881
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: because it man, it's like a double edged shore because

882
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: what that means is that pretty much anybody listening to

883
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: this can decide right now that they have enough. You

884
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: just have to decide that. But again, you can flip

885
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: that on its head though, because there might be somebody

886
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 1: who would always say that, like, well I don't have enough,

887
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: and it could always be this thing that they're striving

888
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: after where they are just wanting more and.

889
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 2: More and meeting the beast exactly. Yeah, And so I

890
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of power there. But basically, I

891
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 2: think what Seneca is getting at is the ability for

892
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 2: us to rein in our behavior and how it is

893
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: that we view and perceive and pursue money. It comes

894
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: down to us as individuals. I don't think there's there's

895
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,439
Speaker 2: not like necessarily a right or wrong amount of money,

896
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 2: But it's all about how it is that we do

897
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: the dang thing. Yeah, that reminds me of another saying

898
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 2: that my mom used to say back that speaking of

899
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 2: ancient wisdom. Mat She's not that old, but she would

900
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 2: always she would always tell me that, how like, it's

901
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 2: not what you say, it's how you say it.

902
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's it matters so much truth.

903
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: To it, right that that it is how. It's not

904
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: the words that are coming out of her mouth. It's

905
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: the way in which you were treating someone, why you

906
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 2: say it, and whether you're saying it with like anger

907
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 2: or whether you're saying it out of love. It's people

908
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 2: perceive that, and so much of the same is true.

909
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 2: I think when it comes to how we handle our

910
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 2: money and the way in which we go about it matters.

911
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 2: And I don't know, there's this concept in Buddhism called

912
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 2: the middle way. I think that's worth mentioning here too. Basically,

913
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: it's this call to avoid extremes and the realities. We

914
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 2: live in a society that is incredibly polarized, which I

915
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 2: would say makes it easier said than done. Right, we're

916
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 2: kind of fighting uphill to live in a way that's

917
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: different from our modern culture, from popular culture. You know,

918
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 2: political views are fears. Money views can be as well.

919
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: You know, on that front, Matt makes me think of

920
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 2: the Fire Movement. It's kind of an extreme way to

921
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 2: view your money. True, it's not that aren't great principles

922
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 2: there and great people in the movement. But we've also

923
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: said that, you and I we've also always really talked

924
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 2: about kind of a middle way that would focus not

925
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: on depriving yourself but also not over indulging. And that's

926
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 2: just constantly what we're trying to espouse here is balance, basically,

927
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 2: this middle way with your finances, enjoying the here and

928
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 2: now while realizing that money is a piece of the puzzle,

929
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 2: while saving investing wisely for your future. And it is

930
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 2: not the easiest thing to get right. I think it's

931
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 2: a pendulum that is constantly swinging because we as humans,

932
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 2: we never really kind of find the sweet spot and

933
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 2: stay there. We're always kind of on the march to

934
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 2: be in that sweet spot. And so it's okay to

935
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 2: see that in yourself, because I think anybody who's trying

936
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: to be decent with their money sees that in their

937
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: own lives, right that at times they are too frugal,

938
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: and at other times they might prioritize investing for the

939
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 2: future more than they should. They should enjoy some of

940
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 2: the fruits in their labor in the here and now,

941
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: and that maybe you might think after hearing us talk

942
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 2: about this, Oh man, I haven't really thought about giving

943
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 2: my money away at all, And maybe it's a good

944
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 2: time for you to reconsider. Well, maybe you're too attached

945
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 2: to your money, and it would be a good idea

946
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: to look for ways to give of what you've been

947
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 2: given to care for those around you, people who have

948
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 2: more need than you do. But Matt, it's just fun

949
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 2: to kind of go over some of these these ancient quotes,

950
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: some of these ancient texts to gain wisdom, because there

951
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 2: are a lot of deep and beautiful truths here that

952
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 2: I think, like we can all run through the filter

953
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 2: of modern life and kind of start to make different

954
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 2: choices with how we think about how we approach our money.

955
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah, And it's not lost on us too that

956
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: we barely just touched on like Buddhism, in any tradition,

957
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: that some of the Eastern, yeah, like Eastern traditions as

958
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: opposed to most of what we talked about today was

959
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: kind of more from the Western tradition.

960
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 2: We'll speaking to things that we're more familiar with at least,

961
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 2: but there's a lot more we could dive in there is.

962
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I could totally see us doing an

963
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: entirely new episode where we do dive into some of

964
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: those Eastern traditions and some of the wisdom that can

965
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: be garnered there and how it is that we can

966
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: apply that to our money. So yeah, maybe look out

967
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: for that one in the future. But Joel, we're going

968
00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: to go ahead and shift to our beer that you

969
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: and I enjoy. This was Apricot Crumble. This is a

970
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: beer by Vitamin C Brewing. What were your thoughts on

971
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: this one, dude?

972
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like, actually a month or so ago,

973
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,919
Speaker 2: I got a pie from one of our local pie

974
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 2: making shops and it tastes a lot like this one.

975
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 2: It was so good and the beer was delicious as well.

976
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: It's like the apricots came through nicely. I think ours

977
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: was a peach crumble, but apricots are like a little sweeter,

978
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 2: have just like a little more tartness going on. This

979
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 2: one had like some of the fresh crust vibes as

980
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 2: well going on with like a dash of cinnamon in

981
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 2: there to go along with it. So this definitely tasted

982
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: like the beer version of a delicious pie, and I guess.

983
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: I like it a lot. Yeah, I liked it as well,

984
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: So it wasn't so we've had some of the beers

985
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: by a humble forager. It also makes me think of

986
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: tripping animals, where all all of their beers are in

987
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: the style, but they're often just boozier and they're just

988
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 1: just way thicker, a lot heavier. And this was a

989
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: similar style, but they didn't get too crazy with it.

990
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: I felt that they kept the amount of sweetness in

991
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: check where it felt like it was not quite ripe

992
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: apricot right like it was a little bit tart, like

993
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: maybe you had like a slight amount of crunch as

994
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: opposed to where you're looking at it. Because the best fruit,

995
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: like the sweetest fruit, it never looks good right like.

996
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: You look at it and you think, oh, should I

997
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: toss that? But then you wash it and eat it

998
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh my gosh, this is like the sweetest,

999
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 1: most delicious ripe fruit that I've ever had. I feel

1000
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 1: like this one tasted like an apricot that looked real nice,

1001
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: which awesome meant that was a little bit tart. Yeah,

1002
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: but it totally had some of those crumble crust notes

1003
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: going on. Some of that. I think there's like some

1004
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: of that lactose in it as well. It made it

1005
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: taste nice and creamy. It was really enjoyable, and I

1006
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: don't think we've ever actually had a beer by Vitamin

1007
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: C before. But yeah, I'm glad that you were able

1008
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: to pick this one up and we were able to

1009
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: share it during this episode, no doubt. I'm me too.

1010
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 2: It was a good one. But that's going to do

1011
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: it for this episode. Don't forget to sign up for

1012
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 2: the how to Money newsletter on our website at hodamoney

1013
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 2: dot com. Slash newsletter makes sense, right, It'll show up

1014
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 2: into your inbox every Tuesday morning, hopefully giving you a

1015
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 2: nice chuckle along with some good money information. But Matt,

1016
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 2: that's going to do it for this episode. Until next time,

1017
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 2: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,