1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Why won't he just be quiet? Now? 2 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: That could really apply to a lot of people. Right now, 3 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: I'm talking about blockbuster movie star Alec Baldwin. In the 4 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: last hours, he's tweeted something out about being truthful and Buddhism. 5 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: What And it's coincidentally the same day that the grieving 6 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: widow of Helena Hutchins speaks out about him, shifting blame 7 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: and sounding like he Alec Baldwin is the victim of 8 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: the fatal rust set shooting that claimed the life of 9 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: a wife, a mother of a little boy, boy Andrews. 10 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I see Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank 11 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and 12 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: Serious XM one eleven. You know I've enjoyed his movies. 13 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: I've enjoyed him on Saturday Night Live. Not anymore, Not anymore. 14 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 1: If you can't speak without taking blame or shifting blame 15 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: to somebody else, for Pete's sake, he had the gun 16 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: in his hand when Elena was shot dead. Just don't 17 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: say anything. Just don't speak, for Pete's sake. You know 18 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: what I believe. Miss Hutchins's husband says it all. I 19 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: don't need to speak for him. Take a listen to 20 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: Matt Hudges speaking to our friend Hoda on NBC. Remember 21 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: the production team told me that Helena had been shot, 22 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: and my heart sank right away, completely inexplicable to me 23 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: that it could have happened at that moment, and the 24 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: first thing I thought. I sat down and I said, 25 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: I have to get my son because I had to 26 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: be with him. I rushed home, and on the way 27 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 1: I decided that we had to go to Santa Fe. 28 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: And when I got through to the doctor and spoke 29 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: with him, and he detailed exactly what had happened and 30 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: that she didn't survive. I mean I was. I was heartbroken, 31 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,119 Speaker 1: and I knew that I had to tell my son 32 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: right away when I saw him, I just had to 33 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: be very direct and blunt, because going to pick him 34 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: up and go to the airport to go to Santa Fe, 35 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: I didn't want him to think that we were going 36 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: to be seeing her and having fun together and getting 37 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: his hopes up. I told him, sitting together, you know, 38 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: that his mother had been shot and died, and of 39 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: course he didn't believe it right away. He didn't want 40 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: to believe it. I'm just hearing that how do you 41 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: tell your little boy that mommy has been shot and 42 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: is dead and then load your child up in a 43 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: car and take off to the scene of the shooting. 44 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: Just before I introduced our all Star panel, let me 45 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: go first to doctor Jerry Cross and psychologist Faculties Saint 46 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: Leo University and author of Operation SOS Doctor Jury. I 47 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: know I'm projecting again, but when my fiance Keith was murdered, 48 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: all I wanted to do was get there because in 49 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: my mind, I guess I thought maybe I could fix it. 50 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: I did. I thought I could fix it. Then I 51 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: can anvince myself that it was wrong, that he was 52 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: not dead, that he was just in the hospital, and 53 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: if I could just get there, I could fix it. 54 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: I could tell the doctors to do something I didn't 55 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: know what, but something and save him. And I'm thinking 56 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: about this dad just flying up the interstate to the 57 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: airport to try to get there. What is that impulse? Well, 58 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,839 Speaker 1: that's trying to bring some kind of comprehension or coherence 59 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: into this trauma, this traumatic situation. By him telling his 60 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: son up front, you know, I think that was a 61 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: good thing because, like he explained that he didn't want 62 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: them to think we're going out to visit mom and 63 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: they can start the bonding and healing of the grief 64 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: process together as father and son. How can you do 65 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: that when you don't really even know what's happened yet. Well, 66 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: I mean, you know that she is dead, so you 67 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: can start grieving from that point, and you can start 68 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: again that bonding from father and son trying to explain things, 69 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: remembering good times. All of this is all that process 70 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: that comes from that traumatic jolt again. I mean, see Grace, 71 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories and thank you for being with 72 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: us here at Fox Nation. In series XM one eleven, 73 00:04:54,880 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: apparently Alec Baldwin, megastar on the big screen and on TV, 74 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: just can't stop talking. Take a listen to our friends 75 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: at Inside Edition. The husband of cinematographer Helena Hutchins, who 76 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: was accidentally shot and killed by Alec Baldwin. He's breaking 77 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: his silence, just so angry to see him talk about 78 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: her death so publicly in such a detailed way, and 79 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: then let's not accept any responsibility after having just described 80 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: killing her. Matthew Hutchins tells the Today Shows Hoda Copy 81 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: that he finds it shocking that Baldwin is portraying himself 82 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: as the victim. Hearing him blame Helena in the interview 83 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: and shift responsibility to others and seeing him cry about it, 84 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: I just feel like, are we really supposed to feel 85 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: bad about you, mister Baldwin. In the days after his 86 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: wife was shot to death, Matthew Hutchins was seen embracing Baldwin, 87 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: but now he says it's time for the actor to 88 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: take responsibility for what happened. The idea that the person 89 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: holding the gun causing it to discharge is not responsible 90 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: is absurd to me. Well, I've got to agree with him, 91 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: Matthew Hutchins, Helena's husband. But what exactly to Alexis Terrestchuck 92 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: Crime online dot com investigative reporter with Me Alexis Terres Chuck. 93 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags and host 94 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: of Today with Doctor Wendy k c b Q. You 95 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: can find her at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com, Doctor 96 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: Jorry Crows and psychologist at faculty at Saint Leo University, 97 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: author of Operation so Os Paul Zike for a police commander, 98 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: and author of Stopped Him From Killing Them on Amazon 99 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologists, former medical examiner and author 100 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: of Homicide Investigation Field Guide Matte Alexis Terrestuck. What is 101 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: Matthew Hutchins talking about when he is set saying that 102 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin is blaming his wife. So four months later 103 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: and Alec Baldwin gives an interview where he says, you 104 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: know someone was responsible for this death, but it wasn't me, okay, 105 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: So Alexis terres Schuck, Baldwin is now saying it's not 106 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: my fault. He is, he has said it was not 107 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: my fault. It's somebody's fault. But it certainly wasn't me. 108 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: But he was the one holding the gun. He was 109 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: the one pointing it at her. He was one holding 110 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: it when it went off and shot her and in 111 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: fact shot another person. And now Baldwin tweeting out something 112 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: about being truthful in Buddhism, he did, okay, take a 113 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: listen to our cut eleven in from NBC. Baldwin has 114 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: not commented on the interview, but posted this cryptic message 115 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: on social media. In Buddhism, being truthful goes beyond simply 116 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: not telling lies when anyone feels no shame in telling 117 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: a deliberate lie. There is no evil. They will not do. 118 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: The actor also posting this clip of Nina Simone singing 119 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: Please don't let me be misunderstood. In an earlier statement, 120 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: Baldwin's attorney says any claim that Alick was reckless is 121 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: entirely false. The Santa Fe County DA's office says it's 122 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: still investigating the shooting and has not decided whether to 123 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: file criminal charges. The FBI is doing ballistic tests and 124 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: analyzing the revolver used in the shooting. The DA writing, 125 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: while my office has reviewed weapons with similar actions and 126 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: varying conditions, it is premature to guess or speculate about 127 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: the functionality of the particular firearm. Mister Baldwin discharged. WHOA 128 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: he sounds like a cat in a room full of 129 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: rock and shares he's really parsing his wars. We've done 130 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: a lot of tests on a lot of guns, but 131 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: not that guns, so we don't know if Balwin pull 132 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: the trigger or not. So in Buddhism, being truthful goes 133 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: beyond simply not telling lies what. It's very confusing, and 134 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: I doubt pretty seriously. Alexis Terrez Chuck that one of 135 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: the all time greatest singers in the world, Nina Simone 136 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: may she rest in peace, wants to be dragged into 137 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: this with Alec Baldwin, but's also just so disrespectful, like 138 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: he yes, you are an actor, but you are also 139 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: a father, you are a husband. You should understand the 140 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: devastation of this his cause for the family. And to 141 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: put up a quote from a singer or a Buddhist quote, 142 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: are you are you even a practicing Buddhist Alec Bublin? 143 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: This is it's just a slap in the face to 144 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: the family of the woman he killed. And you know 145 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: what he said in that interview where he totally didn't 146 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: kick anyblame at all. He said, someone put a live 147 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 1: bullet in a gun, a live bullet that wasn't even 148 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: supposed to be on the property. I can't see who 149 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: that is, but I know it's not me. Someone's responsible, 150 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: but it's not. That reminds me so much Wendy Patrick 151 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 1: at trial when I would try co defendants together that 152 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: I'll go like this, pointing at each other, not me. 153 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: The money did it, but it wasn't me. And another thing, 154 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: Wendy Passion. While I've got you California prosecutor author red flags. 155 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: From my understanding, matt Hutchins the husband, He's no idiot. 156 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 1: He didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I understand 157 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: that he is a Harvard educated lawyer. Yeah, you know, 158 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: it is really hard to hear, especially I can imagine 159 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: being a lawyer. Matthew is listening to Baldwin say I'm 160 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: not responsible when he was the one with the gun 161 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: in his hand. So what Boldwin is trying to say, 162 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 1: Remember he's a civil defendant here, He's trying to say, 163 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: I'm guilty of killing her, not murdering her. But that's 164 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: not a distinction with a difference to a grieving family, 165 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: and we see that sometimes in cases like this. That's 166 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: why it's so hard, no doubt from Matthew and others, 167 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: to listen to this. Why has Alex Baldwin changed by 168 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: the way it says something that really struck me wrong. 169 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: Not that you're inaccurate, but you're right, this is a 170 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: civil proceeding, But why is this not a criminal proceeding such? 171 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: I don't have any belief that Alec Baldwin meant to 172 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: shoot a person, much less Helena Hutchins. I don't think 173 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: he meant to, but there is such a thing as 174 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: reckless hall side and das still looking at it, and 175 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: she was very clear, why are they still looking? What's happening? 176 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: Well according to their office, and I think he just 177 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: played a little bit of the cliff. They're still analyzing 178 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: the evidence, but they've had a long time to do 179 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: that between the between the killing and between now. So 180 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: it's a great question as to why criminal charges aren't there. 181 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: It's not it's easy to understand why a civil suit 182 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: has been filed. So I hear you, Paul sit jumping in, 183 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: who's that? Yes, it is so. Bottom line is he's 184 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: a film producer, star of the film, in the big 185 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: name on the set. Nobody's going to tell him what 186 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 1: to do or what not to do. He brought that, 187 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: he took the possession of the firearm, he aimed the firearm, 188 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 1: and he caused the firearm to discharge from a beyond 189 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt. That's going to take some time, and 190 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: they're taking some time to put that together from the 191 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: pondering to the evidence of civil suit. That's a slam dunk. 192 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: Speaking of Ali Balden and what are you saying now 193 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: other than tweeting out Buddhist comments. Take a listen to seven, 194 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: and this is him speaking with our friends at ABC. 195 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: And she says to me, hold the gun lower, go 196 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: to your right. Okay, right there. I do that. I'm 197 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: showed a little lower and she's getting me to position 198 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: the gun. Everything is in her direction. She's guiding me 199 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: through how she wants me to hold the gun for 200 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: this angle. And I draw the gun out and I 201 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: find a mark. I drew the gun out off a cock. 202 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: And what's really urgent is the gun wasn't meant to 203 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: be fired in that angle. So if you're shooting directly 204 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: into the camera lens, you're not aim I'm not shore 205 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: into the camera lens. I'm shooting just off, just off 206 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: in her direction. I'm holding the gun where she told 207 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: me to hold it, which ended up being aimed right 208 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: and below her armpit. It was what I was told. 209 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. This was a completely incidental shot, an 210 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: angle that may not have ended up in the film 211 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: at all, but we kept doing this new so that 212 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: I said to her, now in this scene, I'm going 213 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: to cock the gun. And I said, do you want 214 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 1: to see that? And she said yes, So I take 215 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: the gun and I start to cock the gun. I'm 216 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: not going to pull the trigger. I said, do you 217 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: see that? She was, will just cheat it down and 218 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: tilt it down a little bit like that. And I 219 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 1: cop the gun to go can you see that? Can 220 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: you see that? Can you see that? And she says, 221 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: and then I let go with the hammer of the 222 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: gun and the gun goes off. Time stories with Nancy Grace, 223 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: we kept doing this news so that I said to her, 224 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: now in this scene, I'm going to cock the gun. 225 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: And I said, do you want to see that? And 226 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: she said yes. So I take the gun and I 227 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: start to cock the gun. I'm not going to pull 228 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: the trigger. I said, do you see that? She was, 229 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: We'll just cheat it down and tilt it down a 230 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: little bit like that. On I cop the gunn go 231 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: can you see that? Can you see that? Can you 232 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: see that? And she says, and then I let go 233 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: with the hammer of the gun and the gun goes off. 234 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 1: That's I believe it's that portion of his statements that 235 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: is just stabbing the victim's family in a heart. She 236 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: told me to do what she told me to do 237 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: this She said, yes, I can see now why Matthew 238 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: Hudgins is so angry take us an our cut ten 239 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: in Our Friends at NBC see him talk about her death. 240 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: Matthew Hutchins expressing his grief and anger at Alec Baldwin 241 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: her comments the actor made following the Rust tragedy. Just 242 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: so angry to see him talk about her death so publicly. 243 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: Hutchins has filed a wrongful death suit against Baldwin and 244 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: other members of the production team, telling Hoda he takes 245 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: issue with Alec Baldwin's account of the fatal incident, holding 246 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: I'm just showing how about that? Does that work? Do 247 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: you see that? Do you see that? Just say? She goes, yeah, 248 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: that's good. I'm not going to the hammer bang, the 249 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: gun goes. Mister Baldwin goes out there and talks about 250 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: these details about how he caused the gun to discharge 251 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: and yet takes no responsibility. And in my mind, it's 252 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: just very simple that he was holding the gun and 253 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: caused it to go off. Baldwin has not commented on 254 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: the interview and also insists he did not pull the 255 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: trigger or take a Listen to our cut eight in 256 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: Our Friends at NBC, I let go of the hammer 257 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: of the gun, that gun goes on at the moment 258 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: and decides that was the moment the gun went off. 259 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: Yet that was the moment that coming on. It wasn't 260 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: in the script for the trigger to be pulled. Well, 261 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: the trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger, and 262 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: so you never pulled the trigger. No, no, no, no no. 263 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: I would never point a gun anyone to pull the 264 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: trigger at them. Never. Never. That was the training that 265 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: I had. You don't point a gun and pull trigger. 266 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: On day one of my instruction in this business, people 267 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: said to me, never take a gun and go click 268 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: click click, click click. Because he didn't, even though it's incremental, 269 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: you damaged the firing pin on the gun if you 270 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: do that. Don't do that. And Hall's attorney told ABC 271 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: News that he was watching and agrees that Alec did 272 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: not pull the trigger and that his finger was outside 273 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: the trigger guard. So you know this cold forty five, 274 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: you just pulled the hammer as far back as I've 275 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: been without cocking the actual and you're holding onto the hammer. 276 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: I'm I'm just sorring. How about that? Does that work? 277 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: You see that? Do you see that? Just say? She 278 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: goes yeah, that's good. I'll let going the hammer, bang, 279 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: the gun goes off. That's so we're hearing. Now we 280 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: understand why an inspection of that weapon is so critical. 281 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: To doctor Michelle Dupre, forensic pathologists and former medical examiner, 282 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, why is it so 283 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: critical that the tests are appropriately run, the ballistic tests 284 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: on the shooting weapon. Nancy, that's gonna you're gonna look 285 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: at the bullet and you're gonna look at the bullet 286 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: that's recovered after a test firing, and you're gonna be 287 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: able to say that, yes, this is definitely the gun. 288 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: This is definitely the weapon that shot this person in 289 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: fact killed them. And it's just sort of you know, 290 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: dotting your eyes and crossing your teeth. It's also making 291 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: sure that the weapon didn't malfunction, that it's like functioning 292 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: weapon and so it was not quote accidental. What about it, paul'syke, Okay, 293 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: So that a hammer and that type of weapon, it's 294 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: a single action fire. He's pulling that hammerback and he's 295 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: doing a great job with playing with words. He's pulling 296 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: the hammerback. No finger on the trigger. If he pulls 297 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: that back and he doesn't pull it back far enough 298 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: to where that hammer a lots by him releasing the 299 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: hammer with his thumb and that hammer going forward using 300 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: the firing pin, I'm the hammer striking the cartridge and 301 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: the weapon goes off. So he is he's misrepresenting the 302 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: truth and telling the truth at the same time by 303 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: saying I didn't look okay, you know what, I have 304 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: no doubt. Paul's like that, You're right, but I don't 305 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: know anything you just said. Can you just speak to me, 306 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: like I have never prosecuted a shooting death, Just tell 307 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: me what you just said in simple words. Because you 308 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: can't pull the trigger and not pull the trigger. You 309 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: can't shoot and not shoot right. I may not know 310 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 1: a lot, but I know that much. Both statements can 311 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: be correct. That single action firearm that could forty five 312 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: does not have to have the hammer pulled all the 313 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: way back, and you don't have to pull the trigger. 314 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: He can pull the hammer partially back and let go 315 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: of it, and that hammer still is enough force to 316 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: go forward, strike the cartridge and fire the gun. And 317 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: it sounds like that is what happened in this case. 318 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: So Wendy Patrick, even under the scenario that Alec Baldwin 319 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: has painted for us speaking to our friends at ABC. 320 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: He is still responsible for the shooting, whether he pull 321 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: the trigger or not, if Paul Zyke is correct. And 322 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: that's why Paul Zyke would be my number one expert witness. 323 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: He'd be the star of the show because that's the 324 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: issue here is negligence and was it some sort of 325 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: negligence supervision? Remember Baldwin was also the executive producer, so 326 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: there's different levels of liability that jury can look at. 327 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: But that's exactly it. They're going to have to prove 328 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: that what he did with that gun, the way he 329 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: manipulated it, let's just call it, that did not violate 330 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: some sort of standard of karats my Pnfhill Dodle, Paul Zey, 331 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: will you say it one more time, just as few 332 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: words as necessary. The manipulation of the firearm that Alec 333 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: Baldwin engaged in was enough to cause that firearm to 334 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: discharge with or without the pulling of the trigger. The end, 335 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: the way he Baldwin is handling the gun, whether he 336 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: pulled the shagger or not, resulted in the bullet ejecting. 337 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: Is that what you just said? Absolutely absolutely, and it's 338 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 1: because he helped pull the hammer back. Explain everybody what 339 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: the hammer is. The hammer is simply the thing that 340 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: you would grab with your thumb. It's where it's located 341 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: about where your thumb is. And in a single action firearm. Again, 342 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: not all firearms have hammers, this one does. He pulled 343 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: back the hammer and pull the trigger. Yeah, well if 344 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: it locks, If the hammer pulls all the way back 345 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: and locks, you then have to pull the trigger to 346 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: get it to fire. If you pull it back and 347 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: say three forced the way back where it doesn't lock, 348 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: and then you let go of the hammer, they're still 349 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: in the energy and that hammer dropping to use the 350 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: hit the cartridge itself with that hammer and cause it 351 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: to fire. And bottom line, if it wasn't aimed at 352 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: a person, even if that worder case and he just 353 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,479 Speaker 1: dropped the hammer, nobody would have been shot. But in 354 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: fact it was aimed at somebody while that happened, Okay, 355 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: that makes it jump in Legally, the big issue is 356 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: going to be who should have known there was a 357 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: live bullet in the gun? I mean that seems to 358 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: do what a lot of people are focusing on that 359 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: work on the set. But Wendy Patrick, I mean, you've 360 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: handled guns in front of a jury. The first thing 361 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: I hate guns to start with, But whenever I would 362 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: prosecute a case, I would have to handle the gun. 363 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: And the first thing you do is pick it up, 364 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: pointing down, open it in front of the jury, look 365 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: yourself to make sure there's no bullet sent it. Shake it, 366 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: says the jury knows there's no bullet sent it, and 367 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: either leave the shamer out or wreck it back in 368 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: and then handle it. Everybody in their right mind knows 369 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: you have to check the see if there's a bullet 370 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: in there. And if there had been, well there was 371 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 1: a live round in there, he would have seen that 372 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 1: if he had checked. Yeah, that's exactly right. And that's 373 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: what the focus right now is. Why didn't he check? 374 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: Should he have checked? Would he trained a check in? 375 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: His talking continually about the case is not helping him. 376 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: He said he was trying and quoting out some Buddhist 377 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: quote is not helping anything. Listen to nine in This 378 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: is Baldwin still talking on ABC. Well, everyone is horrified, 379 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: they're shocked. It's loud, they don't have their ear plugs, 380 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: and no one was the gun was supposed to be empty. 381 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,479 Speaker 1: I was told I was handed an empty gun, if 382 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: there were cosmetic grounds and nothing with a charge at all, 383 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: or a flash round, nothing where she goes down? I 384 00:21:53,520 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: thought to myself, but is she faint? The notion that 385 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: there was a live round in that gun did not 386 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: down a mate probably forty five minutes to an hour later, 387 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: forty five minutes to an hour. Well, she's laying there, 388 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: and I go, did she hit it by wadding? Was 389 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: there a blank Sometimes those blank rounds have a wadding 390 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: inside that packs us like a cloth that packs the gunpowder, 391 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: and sometimes wadding comes out and can hit people and 392 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: it can feel like a little bit of a poke. 393 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: But no one could understand did she have a heart attack? 394 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: We could remember the idea that someone put a live 395 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: bullet in the gun was not even in reality. Did 396 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: you go up to her? Did you back up to her? 397 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: And then we were meeting aboard told to get out 398 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: of the building. We were forced to get out of 399 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: the building. The medicis came in and I stood over 400 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: her for sixty seconds as she just laid there kind 401 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: of in shock. Was she conscious? My recollection is yes, 402 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: he couldn't see the blood. Let's see when you when 403 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: you say he didn't know she was shot for forty 404 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: five minutes to an hour. He thought she may have 405 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: passed out or got hit by the wadding and the gun. 406 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: And that's not what we're learning on an immediate nine 407 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: one one call. Take a listen to our cut sixteen 408 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: in they were but doubled over the ID and the 409 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: camera woman and the direct and the director. They're clearing 410 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: the roads ten to come back. We're back on the K. 411 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: So back in the town, if you call them, were 412 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: back in the western town. Is there any serious belieing? 413 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. I ran out of the building, but fine, 414 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: I still have to go through these Okay, are they 415 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: completely alert? We don't know, Sallo, Hi, I have a 416 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: protocol of questions I need to add if you think 417 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: you'll just sounds in the best in came. Okay, aren't 418 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: they completely alert? Um? Yeah, well part of the body 419 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: was injured. I'm not sure. I'm not in there. Fine, 420 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 1: is there more than one wound? I think there's one 421 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: on on two individuals, one one on two individuals. Okay, yeah, okay, 422 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: So I mean everyone's helping outstandlineal see exactly want to 423 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: do next? Okay, I'm gonna tell you how to stop 424 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: the bleeding and listened carefully, make sure we do it right. 425 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: We do. We do have a medic on set. They're 426 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: already doing. That is the bleeding controls um if I'm 427 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: allowed to get it. So immediate calls from nine one one. 428 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: They obviously know people have been shot, but Alec Baldwin says, 429 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: forty five minutes to an hour goes by before he 430 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: realizes she didn't just faint or get hit by the 431 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: wanting Yet he says he was standing over her. Did 432 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: he not say that? Alex? Alexis ures check, that's exactly 433 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: what he said, and he said, and that's I'm so 434 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: glad you just played that nine one one call because 435 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: it's a complete contradiction. The woman who placed the nine 436 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: one one call immediately said, there's been an accidental shooting 437 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: on the set. So how did Alex Baldwin not know 438 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: when he's in the room and then where they say 439 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: there's a medic taking care of her, and they weren't 440 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: letting people back in. The woman, the operator who was 441 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: trained to teach people how to stop the bleeding, wasn't 442 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: even they weren't even allowed to go back into help, 443 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: which they clearly needed because she didn't make it. And Baldwin, 444 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 1: you have to remember, is a very very very good actor, 445 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: an award winning actor, and he's had months now to 446 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: change his story, to come up with a different plan, 447 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: to come up with a different version of what happened 448 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: to DNA Michelde pre forensic pathologists joining us form a 449 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: medical examiner. What were hauling his injuries exactly? Well, she 450 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: was actually shot and bled to death, so we call 451 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: that excanguination. She was shot in the upper part of 452 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: her body. I don't know what organs or vessels had 453 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: actually hit, but it was a certainly enough to cause 454 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: her to bleed to death. How could he stand over 455 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: her and not know she was bleeding out right there? 456 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: I do not understand that. I don't understand that either. 457 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: And you know, this is what we've learned a small lie. 458 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: For instance, I for forty five minutes that she would 459 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: been shot, when you know he also said still he 460 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 1: stood over her for sixty seconds following at least following 461 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: the shooting. The two of those can't be true. At 462 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: a trial, a jury is instructed by the judge. It's 463 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: a black and white letter of the law. If you 464 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: find a defendant has lied in part or in hole, 465 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: you can throw out their entire testimony and disregard it. 466 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: Why would he say that? Take a listen to our 467 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: cut five in this is Helena Hutchins's husband speaking to 468 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: our friend Hodah. He said, essentially he felt grief but 469 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: no guilt. Almost sounds like he was the victim. And 470 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: hearing him blame Helena in the interview and shift responsibility 471 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: to others and seeing him cry about it, I just 472 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: feel like, are we really supposed to feel bad about you, 473 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: mister Baldwin? So do you think that the majority of 474 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: the blame lays on Alec Baldwin? The idea that the 475 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: person holding a gun causing it to discharge is not 476 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: responsible is absurd to me. Every individual who touches a 477 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: firearm has a responsibility for gun safety. But gun safety 478 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: was not the only problem on that set. There were 479 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: a number of industry standards that were not practiced and 480 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 1: there's multiple responsible parties. Well, he's right about that. The 481 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: husband of Helena Hutchins describing a very lax attitude towards 482 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: safety on the set of Rust, the movie, the major 483 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 1: motion picture that Alec Baldwin was filming. Take a list 484 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: of our cut six in This is Matt Hutchins again 485 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: speaking the suit, which alleges at least fifteen safety practices 486 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: were disregarded on set, claims there was a wider culture 487 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: of cost cutting that ultimately led to Helena's death. In 488 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: a statement, Baldwin's attorney says, any claim that Alec was 489 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: reckless is in tirely false. In your mind's eye, what 490 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: does justice look like? You know, we're pursuing justice every 491 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: way we can, with the lawsuit seeking to hold accountable 492 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: the people who are responsible for Helena's death, which was 493 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: totally preventable. In the end, you know, justice won't bring 494 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: Helena back, but maybe the memory of her can help 495 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: keep people safe and prevent something like this from ever 496 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: happening again. I can tell you another thing it will 497 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: do seeking justice, and that is how Ease is suffering 498 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: of her little boy, eight years old. Ambrose will grow 499 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: up one day and if no one does anything about 500 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: this shooting of his mother, he will feel helpless the 501 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: rest of his life. You never get over that. I've 502 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: spoken to so many adults that were child victims of crime, 503 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: and one of the main things they suffered the rest 504 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: of their lives is. Nobody did anything. Nobody did the 505 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: right thing. Nobody protected my mother, No one avenged her death, nothing, 506 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: and that is so wrong. And I don't understand why 507 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: the prosecutor is sitting on his thumb. Alexis terrest like, 508 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: what's happening there? And see afraid of movie started, might 509 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: get mad at him and trash him on TV. It 510 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: seems like what they're trying to do is make sure 511 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: they have all their tea's crossing their eyes dotted by 512 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: testing this gun, because they've said they've tested other kinds 513 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: of guns, but this one they have never done a 514 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: test on why. I don't know why it's a prop gun, 515 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: but it's happened they done a test, Alexis, I do 516 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: not know why they haven't done a test yet. Well, 517 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,239 Speaker 1: I can tell you this much. How long did it 518 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: take to get Alec Baldwin's cell phone? Because let's look 519 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: at those phone calls. He went right outside it got 520 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: on the cell phone after her. Lena was shock. What 521 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: was he saying? What was he texting? Did he say, 522 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: oh my stars, I just shot someone. It was an accident. 523 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: I don't think I pulled the sugar? Is that what 524 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: he said? Or did he say something very different. How 525 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: long did it take to get a cell phone? Alexis, 526 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: It took absolute months. And there's I'm not sure what 527 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: kind of investigative tools they have, but there are lots 528 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: of ways to actually delete things off of cell phones 529 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: in even one hour. So they waited so long, it 530 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: took so long? Months? Did it take months to get 531 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: a cell phone? I mean he was pictured holding talking 532 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: on the cell phone in public weeks and weeks after 533 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: the shooting, the same cell phone he was using after 534 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: the shooting, immediately after the shooting. Alexis, Yes, and they 535 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: didn't get it. He is with all the talk and 536 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: the interviews that he wasn't responsible. He is not really cooperated. 537 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: Doesn't appear that he's cooperating with the investigation very much. Well, 538 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: jump in real quick, so you know the other thing. 539 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: We don't have to be you don't have to be quick. 540 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: I want to hear the whole thing. Okay, this is 541 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: a workplace, right, This is something that somebody has an 542 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: obligation to make sure it's secure. People are expected to 543 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: come to work, perform their duties, and go home. And 544 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: that is a double shock to the husband. You know, 545 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: the kid like, how could that possibly happen? It's a 546 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: movie set. The work problem was just used here. That 547 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: is not what this was. This is a full functioning 548 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: deadly weapon. As far as why has it not been 549 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: tested so to speak, it's because of the allegations that 550 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: it malfunctioned. So they're going to have to take this 551 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: weapon and put it under a host of different circumstances 552 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: to see if there's any way possible due to the 553 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: mechanism being worn down, the things inside the gun that 554 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: are meant to be failsafe, did they or could they 555 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: have failed? Because that's going to be his big defense 556 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: is that this malfunctioned. This didn't do what it was 557 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: supposed to do, and he's going to put a lot 558 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: on that. Well, him aiming the firearm at this person's 559 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: going to, you know, certainly mitigate a lot of his 560 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: attempt to say it malfunction, but it's going to take 561 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: a lot of testing to make sure, No, that's impossible, 562 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: that didn't happen. And I think that's what the delay is. 563 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the response of Baldwin's family 564 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: has come under fire. Take a listen to our cut 565 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: twelve in Our Friend Jim Ray at Inside Edition, Alec 566 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: Baldwin and his family are doing what they can to 567 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: get back to normal, posting images of a festive Halloween. 568 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: Baldwin is dressed up as a creature from the children's 569 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: book Where the Wild Things Are. His wife Alaria is 570 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: glammed up as a spider witch, matching two of their daughters. 571 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,719 Speaker 1: Alaria posted parenting through this has been an intense experience, 572 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: to say the least. Referring to the accidental shooting death 573 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: of cinematographer Helena Hutchins, we're also learning about Helena Hutchins's 574 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: final and haunting words as she lay dying after Alec 575 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: Baldwin fired the fatal shot. Moments before Baldwin fired the 576 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: gun during rehearsals, which he had been told was not loaded, 577 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: he announced, I guess I'm going to take this out, 578 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: pull it and go bang. The bullet hit the forty 579 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: two year old woman in the chest. Then a fatally 580 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: wounded Hutchins spoke these haunting last words, that was no good, 581 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: That was no good at all. As an active investigation 582 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: interms of warm dying, she was my friend. She was 583 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: my friend. I don't think anyone believes for a moment 584 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: that Baldwin meant to shoot Helena hutchins 's never been 585 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: on the table. Then why keep the cell phone and 586 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: not hand it over? What were his immediate texts? Who 587 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: did he call? Can they tell us what Baldwin was 588 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: saying in the immediate aftermath of Elena hutchins shooting death? 589 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: What is the response? What does the ballistics report show 590 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: not on a facimile, but on the actual weapon itself. 591 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: Is Baldwin's statement even possible? Is it? Is it possible 592 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 1: that what he's saying happened did happen? And if he 593 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: is telling the truth to you, doctor Jerry Crawsen, I 594 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: think he would get a lot more respect if he 595 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: said I did it, I didn't mean to do it, 596 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: it was an accident. Do you notice how he shifted? 597 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: He admitted, you know, like no guilt. But then in 598 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: his quote from Buddha, it talks about feel no shame. 599 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: Guilt is personal, shame is public. You look at what 600 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: he's doing now. He's doing everything public to downplay or 601 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: alleviate his shame. He's an actor and he's doing a 602 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: good job. Look at the pictures they put out an Halloween. 603 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 1: You know, if like now it's in a recovery mode 604 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: of his persona. In the public much has been made 605 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: of an embrace shared by Alec Baldwin with the husband 606 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: Matthew Hutchins. Take a listen to our cut four in 607 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: Our Friend Hoda at NBC. Alec Baldwin called you afterwards 608 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: and it was an embrace and a meal. Well, tell 609 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: me what that was like. Well, I feel like to 610 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: understand that moment, you have to remember the shock we 611 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: were in and I spoke with mister Baldwin and was 612 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: just looking for a way through the storm. Was did 613 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: he seem distraught during that time? There are a lot 614 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: of emotions, for sure, on both sides. Hutchins, who's filed 615 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: a civil suit against Baldwin and other producers and crew 616 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 1: members on the film, now expressing outrage with Baldwin's recent 617 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 1: interview where he says the actor shifted blame over the 618 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 1: death of his wife, Helena. I feel that someone is 619 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: responsible for what happened, and I can't see who that is, 620 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: but I know it's not me. But watching him, I 621 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: just felt so angry, just so angry to see him 622 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: talk about her death so publicly in such a detailed way, 623 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: and then to not accept any responsibility after having just 624 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: described killing her. And here is more of Helena's husband, 625 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: the father of their child, our cut one in one 626 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: sitting and speaking to our friend Hoda at NBC. When 627 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: do you miss her the most? I saw a picture 628 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,439 Speaker 1: of her smiling the other day and I just thought, 629 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 1: you know, she'll never smile again, and that's really hard. 630 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: I didn't know her, but I know you loved her. 631 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a parent sitting across from you in 632 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: this moment when you first met Helena? Was it? Wow? 633 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: Was it like fireworks? What was it like? Pretty much? 634 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: Was it? You knew right away? It was pretty magical 635 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: meeting her. It was love at first sight. Matt Hutchins 636 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: traveling two thousand miles to Ukraine, Helena's native country, to propose, 637 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: getting engaged only three months after they met. Well, I 638 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 1: like to trust my intuition on matters of the heart. 639 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: And I was like, well, I can just get on 640 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: a train and go two thousand miles and get there. 641 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: That's what love does. Wow. And it was along the 642 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: way where I decided to propose, and I got that 643 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,760 Speaker 1: on my knees. Let's get married. And now he's focused 644 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: on dealing with Alec Baldwin's statements in the press and 645 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: cryptic Buddhist quotes about the truth or a partial truth. 646 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure what he's trying to say, and 647 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: working on what we call is a recree. Tell me 648 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: alexis terres Chuck, what does the recreation show? So it 649 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: is you would almost call it an animated video, and 650 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: it shows. It starts off showing the church, which was 651 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 1: the set that they were filming on, and it's an 652 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 1: old Western movie and it shows it from the outside 653 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: and then you go inside and it shows of character, 654 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,399 Speaker 1: a person that's clearly Alex Baldwin being handed a gun 655 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: and this is by Dave Halls, who was the assistant 656 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: director and he but he is not the armorer. Remember 657 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: that the woman who was the armor who was in 658 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: charge of all the weapons, was kept outside of the 659 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: buildings because of COVID protocol, so she was there she 660 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: gave it to him. The person the character hands Baldwin 661 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: a gun, he is seen tucking it into a holster 662 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: inside his costume, which is like a jacket and a shirt, 663 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: and then it shows him pulling it out and then 664 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: it bangs and you hear it's an actual very loud 665 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,919 Speaker 1: bang and you see a burst of fire, and then 666 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: she grabs herself and there's a noise and then shows 667 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,800 Speaker 1: her falling to the ground. To you, doctor Michel Dupree 668 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,240 Speaker 1: joining us princy pathologist form a medical examiner and author, 669 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,919 Speaker 1: how does a recreation a recreate and I know you've 670 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 1: looked at it. How does that help the case? And 671 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: what do you think of the recreation as it fits 672 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 1: or doesn't fit with the injuries that we know of, Nancy, 673 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: This is a very good thing to do so that 674 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: we can tell the trajectories. We can, as you said, 675 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: verify the stories of what people saw or didn't see. 676 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: And in this case, I think it actually helps us 677 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: understand where Helena was hit and how she was hit. 678 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: Um it verifies most of that as as far as 679 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: I can tell, and it also helps us get a 680 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: better understanding of what might have been going through each 681 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: Prussian's mind at the time this actually happened. Alex, you 682 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: have reported to me that there are plans to enlarge 683 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: the Baldwin family. There is a blind item on a 684 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: gossip website that says that the family is consider that 685 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: they're considering having more children. The commenters are saying that 686 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: it is Hilaria Baldwin and they are they already have 687 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: six children's and the blind item claims that this family 688 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: is planning to expand their brew to take to distract 689 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: from the attention which everybody in every industry, whether you're 690 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: a politician, whether you're an actor, or you know the 691 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: CEO of a big business, you always use something for distraction. 692 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 1: So this could cause be something that would distract having 693 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: a seventh baby. Yes, take a listen now to our 694 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 1: cut two. In this is Helena's husband speaking to Hoodah 695 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: that ring he gave Helena he now wears. Matt and 696 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,359 Speaker 1: Helena were happily married for sixteen years, raising a loving son. 697 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: There was a picture that struck me so deeply, and 698 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:27,440 Speaker 1: it was she and andros knows to knows. And when 699 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 1: I saw that, I thought that's pure. She just felt 700 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: that connection and just loved him so much. And Helena 701 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,000 Speaker 1: calling every night from the Rust movie set to wish 702 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: him good night. What were their conversations like, Well, they 703 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: would get on video and you know, she would just 704 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: do everything that she could as a mom to reassure him. 705 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: You just give him kisses And how did that make 706 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: him feel when he saw her on video like that. 707 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: I think it helped him get to sleep every night, 708 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: knowing that she was thinking about him. I feel like 709 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 1: in life, we expect certain things to happen. We expect 710 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 1: the sun to rise, we expect the sun to set, 711 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: and we expect our loved one to come home at night. Well, 712 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: I certainly expected her to come home and to be 713 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,839 Speaker 1: there with us in our new home. We wait as 714 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: just as sun falls. Nancy Grace Crumb's story signing off 715 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:19,400 Speaker 1: Goodbye Friend,