WEBVTT - Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:04.080 Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:07.400 Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan runt Dog, 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.760 but enough about me. My guests today are among the 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:14.640 greatest songwriters and producers of all time. It's not negotiable. 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.840 Just look at the stats. Together, they've written thirty one 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:22.160 top ten hits, including sixteen number one, and these are 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:24.920 songs that have become part of popular culture. Tracks with 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.680 Janet Jackson like Control Nasty, What Have You Done for 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.000 Me Lately? Together Again and All for You. Then there's 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.479 Boys Two Men's Four Seasons of Loneliness and on Bended Knee, 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:39.200 Human by Human League. They've worked with everyone from Michael 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.520 Jackson and Gwen Stefani to New Edition and Shaka Khan, 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.600 but now they're stepping out in front for the first time. 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.240 On July nine, they released Jam and Lewis Volume One, 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.599 their debut album under their own name. It features help 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:56.960 from up and comers like Oh Mariah carry Usher, Baby Face, 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.920 Tony Braxton, Mary j. Blige. Maybe heard of them. Like 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.760 their home state of Minnesota. They are cooler than cool. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.919 I am so happy to welcome to music legends Jimmy 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:10.720 Jam and Terry Lewis Jimmy Terry, thank you so much 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:12.960 for taking the time today. This is such an honor. 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:16.040 I owe you every every high school dance I've ever 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:19.000 had thanks to you. I should say, it's such an 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.039 honor to be speaking to you. Thank You've given me 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.080 so much joy over the years. Oh, thank you. Well, 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:27.000 we'll try to do nothing to ruin that. Nothing. I 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.000 don't worry. My hopes are very high. You. You have 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.120 your debut solo album due out, Jam and Lewis Volume one. 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.479 In some ways, it's been in the works for thirty 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:36.080 five years now. Can you tell me a little bit 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:39.000 about the genesis of the album. The origin of the 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.960 Jam and Lewis album actually started, Yeah, thirty five years ago, 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:44.840 the same year that we were working on an album 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:48.559 that ended up becoming Control for Jam and Uh. Really 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.640 we had started, you know, working on tracks for our album, 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:53.760 and then we got the call from a John McClean 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:55.720 at and M Records who was a and our person, 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:57.200 and he said, hey, who do you want to work 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:58.920 with on our roster? And we looked at the roster 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:00.560 and we said, oh, jam it. We want to do 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:01.920 Janet And he said, you want to do a couple 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:03.120 of songs. We said, no, we want to do the 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.400 whole album, and he said, oh, okay, cool. So anyway, 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.280 Janet came to Minneapolis. We started working. When we were done, 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:11.880 at least what we thought. When we were done with 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.680 the album, we had John come up and we played 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:17.639 him control and Nasty and when I Think of You 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.800 and Pleasure Principle and Funny out time Wise and let's 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.320 wait a while. And we're thinking we're done, we're good, 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:25.440 and like all a and our people, he goes, I 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:29.760 just need one more, just need one more, always one more, right, 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:31.679 and we're like, now forget you. So anyway, we hop 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:33.120 in the car and we're gonna go grab a bite 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:35.520 to eat. Terry puts in a cassette. So now this 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:37.480 dates us thirty five years ago. He puts in a 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:39.919 cassette of tracks we were working on for the Jam 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.119 and Lewis album, and about the third track in John 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.840 McClain goes, wait, that's the one I need for Janet. 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:47.600 He said, what are you talking about? He said, not 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:49.840 need that track for Janet, play it for and if 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:51.440 she likes to give it to her. And we're like, oh, 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.360 you're just giving our songs away now okay, fine, So 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.440 the next day we go to the studio. We just 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.160 turned a song on. We didn't say we were gonna 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:00.480 play anything. We put the song on. We why Janet, 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.920 and Jane's kind of looking at the TV and then 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:04.920 she kind of puts her head down and she starts 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.240 bopping a little bit. She walks to the door. She 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.200 pointed me and Terry. When the song goes off, she goes, 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.160 who's that for? And we said, well, you if you 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.080 want it, and she said, oh I wanted that song 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.840 became what have you done for me lately? So it 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.680 ended up being the single that launched her career and 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.880 basically ended hours at least as artists and got us 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.640 into writing and production. So that's why it's been a 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.919 thirty five year journey. And over the years going forward, 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:33.160 we would do songs with artists and we'd say, hey, 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:34.760 we want to do something for our Jane and Lewis 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:36.320 album and they go, you had great, great, And then 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:38.240 when the song would be done, they'd go, oh, no, 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:42.680 I gotta keep this for myself. So about four years 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.480 ago we finally got selfish. We were going in the 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.120 Songwriters Hall of Fame and we were on the red carpet, 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.360 and a couple of reporters said, what is it that 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:53.240 you guys haven't done that you guys still want to do? 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.520 And we looked around on the red carpet, and standing 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:57.960 a few feet down from us was baby Face. And 0:03:58.000 --> 0:03:59.480 we looked at baby Face and we said, well, we 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.120 never got a round to finishing anything with baby Face, 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:04.240 working on someone with baby Face. And then we said, 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:06.480 and we never got around to do in our album. 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:08.480 And the third thing we said was we never got 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.640 around to actually touring playing our own songs. So those 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:13.560 were kind of the three things on our checklist that 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.160 we had never gotten around to doing. And then through 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.520 kind of you know, weird circumstances and different things, we 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:23.200 finally just decided, let's be selfish and let's just do 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:25.120 our record. And so baby Face was one of the 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.520 first people we reached out to we put our wish 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.800 list together, and you know, that was kind of the 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.680 journey of the album and why it took so long 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:36.400 to do. And finally we were just like, we're keeping 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.840 the songs for ourselves. You know, at one point in time, 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.960 I think we were thinking of calling the album something 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.680 like songs we were keeping for ourselves or something like that, 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.560 you know, because because really that's what it is, That's 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:49.640 what these songs are. Are there any songs on this 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:53.240 new album that date back to I don't think there's 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:57.479 any that date back that not that far, but you know, 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:02.080 certainly we have like a book titles or now iPhone 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.080 the titles that might date back that far that we 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:09.520 pull ideas from in terms of just concepts to write them. 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:13.360 So the base of those things could possibly be. And 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:16.960 certainly a lot of inspirations probably date back that part 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:19.159 you met your baby Face. I love the track that 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:20.920 he did with him. He don't know nothing about it. 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.039 Tell me about the background behind that song. It's such 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.400 a great track. Well, really, the concept with really all 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.080 the artists on the album is really to make if 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:32.280 you said the artist's name, what should that song sound like? 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:35.080 And I remember with baby Face, it was interesting because 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.200 we just wanted to make the most baby Face sounding 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:41.080 record we could possibly do. And the feeling we wanted 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.039 to try to give people was we call it nostalgia. 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:48.160 It's that idea of hearing something new which is exciting, 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:52.680 but it's familiar. It makes you feel good and comfortable, right, 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.159 It's like it's almost like something you you're hearing something 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:57.640 new for the first time, but it feels like something 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.640 you've heard before, or like meeting an old friend for 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.280 the first time or something. I don't know the different 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.400 ways to kind of analogize it, but that's kind of 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:06.280 the the idea of it. So when you hear the 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.080 baby Face record, to us, it sounds like a baby 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:10.600 you know, it sounds like a baby Face record. And 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.120 I remember somebody when we when they first heard it, 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.800 said you know, wow, it doesn't sound like a Jam 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:18.479 and Lewis record. And we said, well, what does it 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:20.119 sound like and they said, it sounds like a baby 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.159 Face record and we said, exactly, so it's not you know, 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:25.200 I think they took it as like a like it 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.360 wasn't a compliment. We took it as a total compliment 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.880 because as writers and producers, that's what we've always tried 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:31.880 to do, is make the artists sound like the best 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.800 their best self. And with baby Face, it was really 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:36.600 cool because when we first of all, we got a 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.600 chance to do to start working on it pre COVID, 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:41.920 so we actually got to sit in the studio together 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.640 and actually right and and record and do all that 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.479 kind of in person, which was which was great. But 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.080 then you know, baby Face allowed us to produce the 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.120 song rather than him producing it, so it made for 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.520 an interesting thing. When he finally heard the finished version 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.680 of the song, he just said, man, that sounds really good. 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.000 And we said, oh, thanks, and he said, no, that 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.320 sounds really good and we said, your baby face, what 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.800 do you think it's gonna sound like. But sometimes the 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.560 artists forget, they kind of forget who they are, like 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.320 why they're so great. But with him, I we also 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.880 realized that because he's so meticulous about doing everything himself, 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:22.679 he never gets to hear himself in a fresh new way. 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.280 So the fact that he just handed the song off 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.080 to us and said go ahead and finish it, he 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:28.640 didn't know the choices we were going to make a 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.440 which vocal to use, which guitar part to use, which 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.120 he didn't know. But when he heard it he was 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:35.080 pleasantly surprised. So I got I think he got a 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.240 chance to hear himself and in a way fall back 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.920 in love with himself again, which was very important for 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.040 us really with all the artists, but particularly with baby Face. 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:45.600 But you mentioned saying you know you you want a 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.640 song to sound like the best version of that artist? 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.040 How do you do that? You put yourself is you 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.240 sort of put your fan hat on and think, Okay, 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:55.360 I'm really a fan of this artist. What would I 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.080 want is that? How do you approach that? That's exactly 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.760 how we approach it. We are fans, you know, friends 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.640 and fans of these artists first, and then you know, 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.440 you just imagine, like what would I want to hear 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.720 this particular artist sound like what song would I want 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:11.520 to hear? And then we try to go for that 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:15.880 concept and then from there, you know, just hearkening back 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.280 to like a history of it, You've heard great performances 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.320 from all of these artists. So we just try to 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.840 make sure that we are in the ballpark's get great 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.680 performances so that it takes you to the place that 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.200 you feel like you're where you were, but you're in 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:31.640 a whole new space because, like jam said, the new 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.240 stagia of it. It's comfortable but new. And so I 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.680 think everybody get that that smile that you just had, 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:40.720 just like that, we try to go for that that 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.960 makes you just feel good. It's it's that that warm 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:49.199 feeling that the woman fuzzy that that is absolutely right. 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.240 We basically this is a very selfish record. This is 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.880 a record we made for ourselves, and we just hope 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.600 everybody agrees. You know, we made it for ourselves. We 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.520 made the records we wanted to hear these artists do, 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.000 simple as that, and and hopefully people just agree with 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:06.000 that and go, oh, yeah, that's I agree, that's what 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:08.280 I want to hear, you know. So we're very selfish 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.400 of us. There's a great story you've told about working 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.720 with with Janet Jackson on I think it was control 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.240 where for the first five days you were just talking 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:18.480 and she said, well, when are we gonna get started? 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:20.280 And you said, well we did, and you showed her 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.040 the lyrics too. I think it was control saying based 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.120 on what you've been talking about and how you kind 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.240 of sort of got into her mind in a lot 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.040 of ways, what is that preprocess like that that period 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.280 for Janet for example, when you're sort of getting inside 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.320 an artist, how do you know how do you cast 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.200 a song? I guess is the question very interesting? To 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.480 put it that way, I mean, it's interesting process. It's 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:47.079 the kind of the psychology, psychiatry of human of humanities, 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.960 like to understand or at least listen to what a 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.360 person is feeling in their deepest feelings and then convert 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.800 that into song. We always say what comes from the 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.719 heart reaches the heart. So if it comes from their 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.520 deepest places in their mind and their soul, when they 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.600 deliver it is certainly going to touch anyone that comes 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.400 into contact with it. So we just like to just 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.480 be in their weaving I guess tailoring. I guess we 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.599 call it with song smith smith ing and just the 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.280 personalities of people. We just like to play with that 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:22.080 because it just it's just an interesting place to be 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.760 and as opposed to writing a song that comes out 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.079 like certainly I can write a concept that comes out 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.360 of my mind, but it comes out a lot better 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:35.000 when I integrate that artists feelings about that concept, and 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.280 so we always try to include those things. We're always 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.559 aware also that the artist has to you know, they 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:41.680 have to perform these songs for the rest of their life. 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.640 If they hit you no big, you know, at that 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:46.839 point in time obviously, as right as in producers, when 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.000 the song leaves the studio, it's done and we move 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:50.880 on to the next thing. For them, it's just the 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:52.920 beginning of the journey. They have to talk about it, 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.720 they have to learn it, rehearse it, make videos for it. 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:57.760 I want to make sure that that song really means 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:00.600 something to the artist that it did, it really resonates 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.240 with them. And with Janet it was cool because when 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.520 she her eyes just lit up when she saw kind 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:07.880 of the lyrics to control. She just said, well, wait, 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:09.680 this is exactly what we've been talking about. And we 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:11.319 said yeah, and she says, whatever we talk about, that's 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:12.880 what we're gonna write about. And it's like yeah, and 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:14.319 she was I want I want to write about this. 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:15.960 I want to write about this. And it got her 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:19.600 excited about becoming a songwriter because we included her in 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.560 the process of actually creating the songs. And but that 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.800 was always our philosophy, like like Terry said, tailoring almost 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.319 like tailoring a suit. You get what people like, the color, 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.600 the lapel, they like that, you know, and all that, 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:32.920 and now they have something that they can wear. It 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.240 only fits them. It's custom made for them and not 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:37.680 everybody can wear it. But I think that's kind of 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.040 the philosophy production one give us a question, and I 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.720 guess there's no easy answer. What is it about music 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.679 that makes it's that's an effective conduit for emotion. Just 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:49.040 reach it straight into your soul. It's the universal language. 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.800 It's we we call it the divine art. It's the 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.760 divine art. And if you think about it, a couple 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.400 of things come to mind. One is it's time to travel. 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.080 So if I said to you, uh, you know, Jordan, 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:06.800 in nineteen eighty five, on this day, what were you 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:08.960 doing or whatever? You know, just pick a year and 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.559 you could probably kind of piece it together in your mind. 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.360 You know, well, I might have been going to this school, 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:15.760 or I might have been you know, whatever it was 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:18.720 that was happening in your life. If I play a 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.120 song from five or a day in nineteen eighty five, 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:26.400 you remember everything about it. Remember you know, you might 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:29.280 might be the girl you're dating. It might be whether 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.640 it's a prom, whether it's you know, oh, I'm in 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.319 my car driving with the top down, or I'm at 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.160 my parents house or um, whatever, and you not only 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.160 remember it, you remember the smell of the food that's 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:44.040 cooking that day, You're there, sounds of the right you're there. Okay, 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:48.080 that's divine. Okay, that's divine. And also think about now, 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.160 in the days of zoom or we're doing everything on 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.760 zoom screens. So I know you've been on zoom screens 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:54.240 with a ton of people write and you look on 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:57.600 a zoom screen and you see young, old, black, white 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:02.160 male female. You you see every different people on their right, 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:06.479 maybe even some people where they don't even speak English necessarily, 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:08.719 so you may not understand what they're saying. If I 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.440 put a beat on, everybody's going like this. At the 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:15.040 same time that it's that uniting thing. So I always 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.520 say the zoom screen is like a quilt. Music is 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:19.480 the threat. So that's what it is. I mean, it's 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.000 very simply the divine art, and it speaks It's God's language. 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.280 To me, it's the it's the language that God speaks 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.600 to all of us, which is why we all understand it. 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.079 That's why we all understand Yeah, and it's in as 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:40.920 Biblicu it as well. Like that. The mystery of music 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:42.880 is always fascinated me. And when you think about you 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:47.480 see in ancient culture as you see remnants of instruments. 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.120 This is back when we were just struggling to be 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.240 able to eat. You know, this was clearly something that 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.040 wasn't just you know, for fun. This was a primal 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.280 need that we needed for some reason. And even though 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.680 we don't necessarily can't totally articulate why, I think it's 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.080 it's roof positive that this is something that we as 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.280 humans need in our lives. Right, that's a beautiful way 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.440 you expressed it. Yeah, Well, silence is scary, and there's 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:12.600 and there's there's music and everything that happens in life. 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.880 There's a rhythm when you hear the birds sweet, there's 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.400 a melody with it. Uh, there's you know, if you 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.720 hear attractor trailer or a car going by, there's a 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:25.600 rhythm that there's there's always music and everything. We just 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:29.240 desired as humans to hear that and to feel that 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.720 that that's the thing that connects us to nature. We 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.000 love to hear the brook babbling in the background and 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.120 the squirrels running up the tree. Is like, we love 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.680 all that kind of stuff. It's just nature is part 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.000 of humanity. And and the one thing I'll add to 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.800 that is we've always talk about, you know, how in 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.840 schools are taking music out of schools. If you remember 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.280 when you're a kid, the way you learn your alphabet, 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:55.040 you don't learn it a B, C D. Nobody lines 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.560 up the letters and goes learn these in order. But 0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.120 as soon as you put a melody to it, as 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:00.920 soon as you go A E, C, D, E F G, 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.240 now you remember it. So why would the very route 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:08.000 of tools that you used to learn the alphabet? Would 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.160 you then go to school and go take music out 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.320 of schools? Because that is the way that you learn. 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:14.560 It's the reason why you know a kid can't do 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.040 an essay, but he'll sing three minutes of any rap 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.200 song out totally memorize. So it just, you know, it's 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:22.880 just kind of interesting to me. But once again, I 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:24.760 just I'll go back to what we originally said, it's 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.840 the divine art, a beautiful way to put it. I 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.800 guess the flip side of that my question too. And 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.320 I'm fascinated to hear your response to this to people 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:35.280 who have I think, by my account, over a hundred 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.560 top ten songs. What do you do on the days 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:39.680 when the music is not coming? How do you push 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.040 through that when you're you're you're stuck at a point 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:43.800 when you're working on a song, how do you how 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.400 do you persevere? Do you did you walk away from 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:48.560 and get away from it? Is it's just willpower and 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.160 plow through. What what do you do when, uh, when 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.520 you hit a musical problem? Well, Jordan, I don't think 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.440 there's a day that the music doesn't come. It's just 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:01.480 that all those music that comes is not great. There's 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:06.320 always music, and there's always inspiration. Sometimes there's better inspiration 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.720 and better music, you know. I tell my wife that 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.360 all the times, Like sometimes you just have to wait 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.440 eighteen hours to get that two hours and you know 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.080 that you're inspired to do something, but you have to 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.440 sit there and put the time in to get to 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.200 that two hours. You never know when it's gonna come. 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.200 It might come the first hour, but it might be 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.320 the last hour. You just don't know. Well. The other 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.520 thing too, is that we being a team makes it 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.200 easier because I go through periods where I may not 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.200 be inspired or I may not feel I'm coming up 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:38.800 with any good ideas, and then but Terry'll inspire something 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:40.880 like Terry will have an idea or mentioned something and 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.560 I was like, oh, yeah, that's that's really cool. And 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.040 then it works both ways, you know where that sometimes 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.520 that happens. You know, it's interesting. I remember when we 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.040 were working this is a while back, I think by 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.000 Alexander O'Neil or something we were working on and Terry 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.080 couldn't figure out a lyric. And we've worked and worked 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.000 and work couldn't figure it out. And Terry went to 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.000 like the amusement park or something he went to. He 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.040 went to Disney, and he came back with a million 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.840 ideas because he wasn't thinking about it. So we're kind 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.080 of aware that that is kind of the way that 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.679 that it happens. But there was a Terry talked about 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:16.240 the usher, the significance and usher in our in our lives. Yeah, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:19.359 well usher especially for me. And I'll tell you I 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.960 went through a period of time where I thought that 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.320 artists didn't really care about music anymore and it just 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.320 didn't feel inspiring to me. So I remember going to 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.080 the studio one night and sitting down in Jams office 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.240 and he had chairs, but I sat on the floor 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.040 because I felt that low. I just my battery was 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:38.720 just drained. I hated to do it, but I had 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.600 to tell him, hey man, I'm not feeling this anymore. 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.480 It's like I feel like I'm tapped out. I don't 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.720 I'm not inspired. Nothing that anyone says or does makes 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.239 me feel like I want to do music And Jam said, well, 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.920 I really don't feel like that. So I said, well, 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.040 hey man, I'll just keep pushing as far as I can, 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:57.600 you know, but I just wanted to let you know. 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.320 And along came Usher. We were doing the project with Usher, 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.679 and we started working and Usher showed me that he 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:10.240 was so into being great. He wanted to sing better, 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.359 he wanted to write better, he wanted to learn, and 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:17.119 he was so involved in that process that it inspired 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.200 me to want to be part of that process again. 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.879 And basically he restarted my my energy and my engine 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.880 again and he pulled me into the next however long 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.600 I'll feel like this, but that inspiration is so important. 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.480 And just to be able to work with people who 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.280 inspire you and pull you and push you to do 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:39.359 things that you wouldn't ordinarily do. That's a great story 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.199 and a real story for me because I got to 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:44.280