WEBVTT - Perry Link on China's COVID Situation (Radio)

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<v Speaker 1>Joining us live as Perry Link. Professor U. C. Riverside,

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<v Speaker 1>Distinguished Professor in China expert. Thank you so much, professor

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<v Speaker 1>for joining us um. This is an extraordinary series of

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<v Speaker 1>events now over the past few days, given She's expanding

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<v Speaker 1>command of the country, isn't it Yes? I wouldn't have

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<v Speaker 1>predicted it. It is extraordinary. So now, what what does

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<v Speaker 1>it mean going further? I mean, does it you know

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<v Speaker 1>she does it? Does it put further clamps clamps down?

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<v Speaker 1>Or does it possibly exponentially show command moving to Taiwan policy?

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<v Speaker 1>What what are the ripples from this? Uh? Chinese society

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<v Speaker 1>is repressed and the kind of frustrations and complaints that

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<v Speaker 1>ordinary people feel are kept under wraps when something like

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<v Speaker 1>this happens. The effect is to let everyone who hears

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<v Speaker 1>about it vicariously express complaints that have been underneath for

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<v Speaker 1>a long time. That's why it's dangerous to Mr She

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<v Speaker 1>and that's why it spreads so quickly across China. And

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<v Speaker 1>what I can't say what Mr She will do, except

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<v Speaker 1>to say for sure that he will crack down. In

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<v Speaker 1>nine when the last time that the central government was

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<v Speaker 1>confronted by something like this, they exercised a deliberately conspicuous

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<v Speaker 1>massacre whose aim was not just to kill some people,

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<v Speaker 1>but to show the whole country that we can That

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<v Speaker 1>is the kind of bottom line measure that people in

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<v Speaker 1>China no is available and is used to intimidate and

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<v Speaker 1>could still there will be secure Professor. How secure is

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<v Speaker 1>he in his power structure? I mean he seems to

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<v Speaker 1>have firm, firm grip. Is he secure there? He's very

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<v Speaker 1>secure on the surface, but inside, no, In that system,

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<v Speaker 1>you always look to your superior to see whether you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to be promoted or rewarded, except at the very top,

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<v Speaker 1>where there is no superior, and therefore the rivals at

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<v Speaker 1>the top who could vie for the superior position are

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<v Speaker 1>eyeing one another. This is not just contemporarily, this is

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<v Speaker 1>for decades. The communist system in China has been this way,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's that way firstgining. So he needs to be

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<v Speaker 1>aware that if he does a mistake quote unquote that's

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<v Speaker 1>the technical term for it in the communist jargon, that

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<v Speaker 1>he could be attacked for it. And if handling COVID

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<v Speaker 1>turns out to be a mistake, then it might be

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<v Speaker 1>that his regime falls not but the regime as a

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<v Speaker 1>whole falls, but that his rule of it falls so

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<v Speaker 1>inside he always feels that kind of insecurity and when

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<v Speaker 1>these street demonstrations pop up, it only exacerbates them. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>now now they and of course these are large as.

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<v Speaker 1>Does it reflect reflect on how he moves forward on

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<v Speaker 1>on COVID zero. It seemed that he was loosening a bit.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is this is I understand the knee, the

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<v Speaker 1>protesters wanting to protest what happened with the fire, But

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<v Speaker 1>does this risk being counterproductive? Does what risk being counterproductive?

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<v Speaker 1>The the he may he clamp down further, may he

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<v Speaker 1>go you know, COVID zero and and really not not

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<v Speaker 1>relax what he looked like he was going to do.

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<v Speaker 1>So what I meant when I said he's sure to

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<v Speaker 1>clamp down is not that he will make the policy

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<v Speaker 1>any stricter. Because it's already had zero. He can't really

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<v Speaker 1>tighten that. But he can send the plain close police

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<v Speaker 1>out to find who is that these demonstrations. Invite them

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<v Speaker 1>for a chat, they call it inviting to t advise

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<v Speaker 1>them that they shouldn't do this or they might be

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<v Speaker 1>in trouble, Threaten them if they don't listen, And uh,

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<v Speaker 1>do you really want to keep your job. Do you

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<v Speaker 1>really want your children to be able to go to

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<v Speaker 1>the local school. This kind of thing, that kind of

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<v Speaker 1>on the ground granular repression, is sure to happen. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sure that that's happening right now. Whether or not it

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<v Speaker 1>will change the policy, I'm not sure. The policy is

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<v Speaker 1>already at zero right, got it? Okay, Professor, thank you,

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<v Speaker 1>we are out of time. I really appreciate it your

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<v Speaker 1>time though. Professor Perry Link, Distinguished Professor at University of California,