1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: This podcast is a dramatization of fictionalized events that contains 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: culturally insensitive language and violence. It's been over an hour 3 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: since the shoot out with the police. Following Gerald's orders, 4 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: Jay s boards up the back door up front in 5 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: the main bar area. Martin measures the time by watching 6 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: droplets of blood dripped from Sergeant places leg. In the kitchen, 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: Gerald holds vigil over his son, Niles, who still stretched 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: across the cold, stainless steel table. From the looks of 9 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: the expansion and contraction of his diaphragm in the video, 10 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: Niles is definitely still breathing, but other than that, he's 11 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: unconscious and attempts to wake him have been futile. Looking 12 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: at Gerald here as he observes his wounded son, I 13 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: can't help but wonder what was going through his mind 14 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: as he studied Niles's dislocated shoulder, crushed orbital socket, smashed jaw, 15 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: broken thigh, fractured ankle, contused ribs, with taser burns on 16 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: his chest, and several other black and blue bruises all 17 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: over his body. What were the effects on this father's 18 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: psyche after this protracted, solemn observation of his only son, 19 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 1: Cleaning to life on that metal slap. Whatever was going 20 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: on inside Gerald's head in this moment as he stood 21 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: over his son, he showed nothing but absolute stoicism. This 22 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: case presented a lot of challenges from the start. Once 23 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: the ht S retreated into the building, the standoff had begun, 24 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: but as you can imagine, emotions were running high among 25 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: our officers because one of our own is being held 26 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: against his will, and word was starting to spread among 27 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: the ranks that officer Webb perished and route to the hospital. 28 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: That's Commander John Ammonds. He arrived and assumed control on 29 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 1: site shortly after the failed attempt by lower ranking officers 30 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: to take the building by force. So the first thing 31 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: I had to do and continued to have to do, 32 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: was remind my teams that we have to rely on 33 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: our training and treat this like any other standoff situation. 34 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: And was that hard to do. It was an uphill battle. 35 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: Tactical was incessantly in my ear lobbying for us to 36 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: make a push into the building again, and snipers in 37 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: their bird's nest positions wanted to carte blanche green light 38 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: to fire if the slightest window of opportunity presented itself. 39 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: Did you give it to them? No, of course not. 40 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: The last thing you want to do is give the 41 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: order to fire when you don't know what you're shooting at. 42 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: Because the windows were blocked. Correct, we had zero line 43 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: of sight into the building's interior because construction paper was 44 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: blocking all the windows. But normally there's some visibility into 45 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: the edifice or location that the HTS are in. Unfortunately, 46 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: not the case in this situation at all. So this 47 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: pretty much neutralized my sniper's primary function, which is to 48 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: do recon through their scopes, let alone taking a shot 49 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: at neutralizing the target or targets. If you add that 50 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: to the fact that we had a public safety and 51 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: security concern because of the growing crowd of onlookers and media, 52 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: plus the immense obstacle we faced in trying to negotiate 53 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: with these particular ht s when we had committed the 54 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: first hostile act. It was all challenging from the start 55 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: to say the least. And when you say first hostile act, 56 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: are you referring to place in web beating Niles up 57 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: or are you referencing your guys trying to take the building? 58 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: Allow me to clarify, Okay, I'm talking about from the 59 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: ht S point of view. Just a quick note, you'll 60 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: notice that the commander keeps saying the ht S. That's 61 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: police speak for hostage takers. When entering a negotiation, you 62 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: always have to be cognizant of the fact that what's 63 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: reality to you may not be reality to the other side. 64 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: My point is the AHTS viewing us the police as 65 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: their primary Verry Foe didn't do the negotiation any favors, 66 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: and we hadn't even begun negotiating. Everything, and I mean 67 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: everything that had transpired before command was even set up 68 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: made it extremely difficult for my negotiation team to get 69 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: off on the right foot with the ht S once 70 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: a private direct line of communication or a throw line 71 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: was established. And how did that first call with Gerald go? 72 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 1: Gerald Hales was compatifying the start. And when you say compile, 73 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: give an example. This is the voice of Detective stand Homer, 74 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: lead hostage negotiator. He had me meet him at the 75 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: Police Academy's gymnasium in Alesian Park, where he's overseen his 76 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: police league's basketball team. Homer is the assistant head coach. 77 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: As a general ruler, Thumb, I never grant any hostage 78 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: taker's requested demands until I'm in direct communication and more importantly, 79 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: until I built a basic report. The reason being is 80 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: you have to establish the rules of engagement if you're 81 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: going to have a successful negotiation. Now, this particular HT 82 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: Gerald Hayes was yelling at us from the get go, 83 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,119 Speaker 1: before the throw line receiving up, telling us to put 84 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: down all weapons and that he needed a medic He's 85 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: essentially giving us on laundry listening demands before the opening tipple. 86 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: And in my twenty seven year career of negotiating standoffs, 87 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: I have learned that old saying, you give him a 88 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: mouse a cookie's gonna want a glass of milk, it 89 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: always applies. So it's very important you get the h 90 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: T used to understand as quickly as possible that everything 91 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: is an exchange. It is always transaction, never a hand out. 92 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you that give him mouse a cookie bullshit, 93 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: Actually he did. How did you know that? This is 94 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: former Detective Curtis Patterson at the time, he was backup 95 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: lead negotiator on the case. I'm interviewing him aboard his 96 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: boat DOC in the Marina del Rey Harbor. That has 97 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: never been good at adapting to a situation, which is 98 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: funny because that's essential to our trade. You know, he 99 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: has his playbook and he runs it, and I just 100 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: wasn't the right approach for that night. By the time 101 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: we got to throw line up and finally made contact 102 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: inside the bar, Gerald had been asking for a doctor 103 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: for over an hour, but Helmer flat out ignored that 104 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: request because it wasn't in the order that he likes 105 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: to do things. Did you raise your concern? Yeah, but 106 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: the answer I got with some sny comment like amateur 107 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: hours over. I'd rather not enter into my negotiation doing 108 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: favors for nothing. After the botched attempt to take the building, 109 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: the commander wanted to make sure that we settled down 110 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: and did things the white wood. So once the throw 111 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: line was up, were you able to establish the type 112 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: of report that you like? Uh, there was a rocky 113 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: star Ham. We got his ass handed to him. That's 114 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: how it started. I'm sure you've heard that already. Unfortunately, 115 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: the surveillance audio from Jay's forty two only picks up 116 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: the bar side of the conversation, and where the phone 117 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: is located relative to surveillance cam. It's it's just been 118 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: really difficult to make out a lot of what Gerald 119 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: was saying. What about the department stapes? Wait, there's tapes? 120 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: What tapes? Detective Patterson explained to me that the department 121 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: has a policy of recording throw line conversations so that 122 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: negotiators can review things that were said during standoffs. This 123 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: was news to me because so far the police department 124 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: had told me that they had given me access to 125 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: all recordings from that day. That's not either. What you're 126 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,119 Speaker 1: hearing is Patterson head first in a small storage cabin 127 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: in the underbelly of his boat. Normally I would return 128 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: it tapes back into heaven Is by now, but I 129 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: got fired before he gave me a chance to. So fun. 130 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: Do you think that you let go and anything to 131 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: do with the fact that I'm black? I think it 132 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: has everything to do with it. Oh wait, this might 133 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: be it. Can you have me that flashlight? Yeah? Patterson resurfaces, 134 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: slightly winded with the Manila envelope sealed inside of family 135 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: size zip block. When he was down there, he couldn't 136 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: find the machine he normally used to play the tapes, 137 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: so I had to make a run to three different 138 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: electronics stores to buy one that said it was worth it. 139 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: But before I play this first conversation between Gerald and 140 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: the lead negotiator, Detective Homer. I want to make sure 141 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: that you have a visual of who's inside the command 142 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: vehicle right before the inaugural throw line call. This is 143 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: me running my notes by Patterson for verification. Okay, so 144 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: tell me if I have this right. In the mobile 145 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: command trailer, we've got Commander Ammonds, he's the boss. Detective 146 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,959 Speaker 1: stand Homer, the lead negotiator. Loud boys give him house 147 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: a cookie. And of course there's you, Detective Patterson, now 148 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: retire Detective Patterson noted, but at the time you were 149 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: active duty and secondly negotiator on the case, right. And 150 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: then we've also got Captain Flores. He's super ripped, ex military, 151 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 1: real no nonsense, lean, mean fighting machine kind of dude, right, 152 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: which figures because he runs both the squad team and 153 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: this niper team. And last, but certainly not least, the 154 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 1: only woman in the trailer, Officer Tara Rondos on Comms, who, 155 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: in addition to liaising with the phone company to patch 156 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: a direct line between the command trailer and Jason's for 157 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,319 Speaker 1: you two, also referred to as a throw line, Tera, 158 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: is responsible for the flow of information to and from 159 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: officers inside the trailer and officers outside the trailer, as 160 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: well as the communications with the precinct. And I think 161 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: that's it. What about Sergeant Hobbs, I don't. I don't 162 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: have a sergeant Hobbs. Normally Hobbes will be in a 163 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: command trailer too, but he got kicked out. Kicked out. 164 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: You make it sound like you put on the time out. Yeah, 165 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: that's kind of what it was. Commander Ams is quick 166 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: to eight six you if you don't come correct, and 167 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: Hobbs is just different, you might just do a different drummer, 168 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: whereas the commander is more about keeping everyone on time 169 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: to his regimented beat. What one? That's Patterson offering me 170 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: a beer f y I I'm more of him her 171 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: little girl and usually only at dinner parties. But I 172 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: wasn't going to miss out on an opportunity to fratnize 173 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: with someone who has this much to share. Plus, nothing 174 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: helps get people talking like a little liquid courage. So 175 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: um yeah, I'll take one. Cheers, cheers. Would you know? 176 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: Truth be told? I just don't think I'm is like 177 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: the way Hobbs dressed. Hobbs wrinkly on Talk Hawaii ensure 178 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: offended the commander's sensibilities. Plus, hobbsn't really need to be 179 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: in with us to do his work. He was more 180 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: of a floater. And and what does Sergeant Hobbs do 181 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: exactly intel? But at this point he had none, which 182 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: meant we knew nothing. Before the first throw line call, 183 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: we hadn't even figured out who was in the building 184 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: for sure, other than Sergeant Place. We were guessing that 185 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: Jay Shaw could be among the ht s because it 186 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: was his restaurant and his car that was involved in 187 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: the traffic stop, but we weren't exactly on terra firm 188 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: or with that either. Now, this information gap really irked 189 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: the commander, maybe not as much as Hobbs a y 190 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: in shirt, but it definitely contributed to him getting put 191 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: in time out as you put it. So that's pretty 192 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: much the lay of the land. You've got Ammends, Homer, Patterson, 193 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: Floors and Ramos inside the trailer, and Hobbs somewhere nearby 194 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: trying to work up some solid intel. Meanwhile, back inside 195 00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: Jason's forty two, everyone is huddled in the kitchen. When Hello, 196 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: my name is Detective stand Homer. I am here to 197 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: listen to you. And to make sure that everyone stays 198 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: safe so that we can resolve this situation. You should 199 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: have been had adopted here by now the are you 200 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: don't going to do that for you, sir? But I 201 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: need a little help on your end first. Is there 202 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: something I can call you instead of sir? Or Mr? 203 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: Name you go by? Anita? Okay? Anita? Is there a 204 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: last name? Doctor? Anita? Doctor? Hello? Hello? Damn he's off 205 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: the dentist. Yeah, yeah, I know he's all right, but 206 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: shy sending a medicant as a show of gootry. Patterson 207 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: was right. Homer basically did get owned by Gerald in 208 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: their first call. But the worst part of it is 209 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: for all that grandstanding, posturing and positioning, it just resulted 210 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: in more time ticking off the clock before Niles or 211 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: Sergeant Place for that matter, got medical attention. I was 212 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: scared shitless. I thought I might go in there and 213 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: get smoked. This is paramedic Darrel Hanover speaking. I mean, 214 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: the police prepped me and everything before I went in there. 215 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: But all I kept thinking about were those guys on 216 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: one of those boats leading up to the beach at 217 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: Normandy and how a lot of them, a lot of 218 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: them got killed before they even got to land, you know. Uh. 219 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: Then then I I yaked. I yaked behind a police cruiser, 220 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: which you know, settled me down some, but I was 221 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: still really nervous. What was it like when you first 222 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: entered Jayson's pretty too bar? And girl did I engined? 223 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: I was scared? Uh honestly, I don't even remember actually 224 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: walking through the door, you know, I It's almost like 225 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: I was transported in there. And then then all of 226 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: a sudden, Gerald is staring at me with those eyes. 227 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: Well they just had a vibe. Then said don't funk 228 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: with me. I didn't even notice he was holding a 229 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: gun until he shoved it in my face and started 230 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: patting me down. And it's it's weird. That's when I 231 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: started to calm down. With a gun in your face. Why, 232 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: before I went in, I had asked Captain Flora as 233 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: if I could sneak a weapon in Heck, yeah, but 234 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: but of course they said no. And I gotta tell 235 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: you once, once I was face to face with Gerald, 236 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: I was so glad not to be carrying because gun 237 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: or no gun, I could immediately tell he's not the 238 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: type of dude you want to funk with. So That's 239 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: what made me calm down. As Gerald was patting me down. 240 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: I was just relieved, you know, to know that I 241 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: didn't have anything on me that was going to piss 242 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: that guy off. Then he starts checking through my bag 243 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: to to to make sure everything's cool, you know. And 244 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: and he mentioned that that he had asked for a doctor, 245 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: and I pointed out proudly that I'm certified E m T. 246 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: Did that illicit change in his mood? Wait? What what 247 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: do you mean? Well? Did he act differently after you 248 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: stood up for your profession? No, it was all business. 249 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: He just went on a pull medication out of my 250 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: bag and asked me questions about what he's met. Does 251 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: kind of like he was quizzing me, you know. Uh. Finally, 252 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: he lowers his gun and sort of motions for me 253 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: to follow him and says, this way. The first person 254 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: I see is we crossed through the screening doors into 255 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: the kitchen is Sergeant Place, who's looking pale and sweaty, 256 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: and there's this little puddle of blood that had formed 257 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: underneath him. So naturally or or naturally, I lean in 258 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: to check on him. Why would you say unnaturally because 259 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: I didn't even see Niles lying on the kitchen table. 260 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: And to this day, I don't know if that's because 261 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: the officers outside it loaded me up before I entered 262 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: the bar, like with encouraging words like make sure places okay, 263 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: you know, make sure the sergeant is okay, and do 264 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: everything you can for place, or if I was just 265 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: rattled in general because of the situation. But Niles cool Niles. 266 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: He was invisible to me at first. And I'm trained 267 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: to observe a scene, you know, to treat out it, 268 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: out it. It literally took Gerald putting his hand on 269 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: me and saying not him helped my boy out. And 270 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: that still that bothers me to this day. You know 271 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: what does um? Uh? Yeah, it just feels like, you know, 272 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: like I'm the white guy and I only saw the 273 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: other white man that needed help, when clearly Niles was 274 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: was the one who needed attention first. And don't get 275 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: me wrong, sergeant Place was a mess. But this poor kid, 276 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: I I should have seen him first. Why do you 277 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: po Click to god, he looked like he had been 278 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: attacked by some kind of monster from a science fiction movie, 279 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: you know. Um. And I sort of remember saying to 280 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: myself but out loud, what happened to him. The poecast 281 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: police happened. Okay, I I swear to God. After Gerald 282 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: said that, I turned over to Sergeant Place and his 283 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: expression will hulp me for the rest of my life. 284 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: What did it look like? Wow, it's like nothing like 285 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: avoid Like nobody was home. So I don't know. It 286 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: was getting too meta for me. I wasn't there to 287 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 1: make observations on people's souls, so I just pushed my 288 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 1: thoughts aside and I went to work. After I checked 289 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: Nile's blood pressure, I sort of ran my fingers along 290 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: the back of Nile's neck and that's when when I 291 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: felt this big bulge in the C one and C 292 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: two area, and I thought, oh what what? He could 293 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: have a broken neck. So you knew pretty quickly that, yeah, 294 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: this was no bueno. Okay, what's happening right here? In 295 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: the video when Gerald gets in your face, we can't 296 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: hear what's being said, or at the time, I wasn't 297 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,719 Speaker 1: aware or I hadn't totally clicked with me uh that 298 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: that that was his son on the table. So I 299 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: just said, very matter of fact that, you know what, 300 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: without any bedside manner, I said, um, his neck, he's broke, 301 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: and and that's when Gerald sort of blinks awkwardly and 302 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: gets in my face and says, you don't funk with me, 303 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: like he wanted to bully me out of my assessment. 304 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: And and then then then Jas kind of separates Gerald 305 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: away from me, and that's where you hear Jace say, 306 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: come on, man, what do we gotta do for noth 307 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: My immobilization kid is outside in the truck, so I 308 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: need to go grab that and come back after I 309 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: get him strapping, then I can take him to the hospital. 310 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: What you're waiting forull, go go go, go go get it. Hi, Hi, 311 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: got your hats off? Woo bamn. Six SWAT officers with 312 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: guns drawn. They jump on me and sweep me from 313 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: the building. I don't even think my feet were touching 314 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 1: the ground where they like literally carried me to their 315 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: command center, which wasn't what I was expecting at all, 316 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: because in my mind, I thought I was going to 317 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: quickly grab my supplies and head right back into the bar. 318 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: But then the cops they wanted to interview me first, 319 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 1: so I wasn't allowed to do what I felt was needed, 320 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: and things just kind of went sideways from there. He 321 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: was right when local media picks up the story, it 322 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: turns things that are already sideways upside down. I'm Colleen 323 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: Sanders and where here live from the Los Angeles Valley 324 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: the outside of jass Corny to sports bar and grill, 325 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: where a carjacking suspect opened fire on, leaving one officer 326 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: dead and the second officer wounded. Apparently, the suspect, along 327 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: with some of his accomplices, then took the surviving police 328 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 1: officer hostage and retreated into this restaurant, believed to be 329 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: owned by former football professional Jase Shaw. The status of 330 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: the officer being held captive is unknown at this time, 331 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: but we are hearing reports that Jason Shaw maybe among 332 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: the kidnappers, and if this is true, it would not 333 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: be Shaw's first. It was like pouring gasoline on a fire. 334 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: Martin sims for counts. So inside the bar, you know, 335 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: we're expected the paramedic to come back and you know, 336 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: help noiles out get him to the hospital. We look 337 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: up and the news media is vilifying this poor kid 338 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: and they're calling him a carjacker. And I mean, this 339 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: is no other way saying it. Okay, it just it 340 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 1: just sucked. If Martin thought the media reporting was incendiary 341 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: and unfair. I had to get Jase's take on it 342 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: as well, But in order to do that, I had 343 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: some making up to do. If you remember my last 344 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: chat with Jason, it ended abruptly and not on good terms. 345 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: Get this thing off. Needless to say, I wasn't quite 346 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: sure how receptive Jas was going to be to me 347 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: reaching out again. Yellow, It's Kate Bell. Yeah, and I 348 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: just wanted to reach out to you and tell you 349 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: that I didn't like the way that things went the 350 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: last time that we chatted in I was hoping that, yeah, 351 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: maybe that I could get a do over. Hello. Hello, Hello. 352 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: It was clear Jay still needed some space, but I 353 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 1: did connect again with Michelle Niles's mother. Hello, Michelle, It's 354 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: Kate Bell. Hey, Kate. For the record, every time I 355 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: talked to Michelle, whether it was on the phone or 356 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: in person, I was acutely aware of how much I 357 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: was asking of her to revisit the day's events. For 358 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: the most part, I tried as best as I could 359 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: to employ a light touch, but when you're touching a 360 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: raw nerve, I'm not sure that's even possible. The last 361 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to do was a fend Michelle in anyway, 362 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: and I and only didn't want her to shut down 363 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: at me like Jays did. Do you remember where you 364 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 1: were when you first found out that there was a problem. 365 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: I was actually on a date when I first knew 366 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: for sure that something was up. Niles have been pushing 367 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: me a lot to use social media's to get back 368 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: out there and start seeing people again. I think he 369 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: was worried about me being lonely when he went off 370 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: to school, and to be honest, so as I. So, yeah, 371 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: that's what I was doing on a date, even though 372 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: it always felt kind of weird to me to even 373 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: call it that. Why. I'm from the old school where 374 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: date is when a guy asked you for your digits 375 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: and their calls or whatever. But this was one of 376 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: those situations where you swipe, write and exchange a few 377 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: direct messages. How is it going awful? His shoes were 378 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: a hot mess, his personality was worse, and his cologne 379 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 1: smell bear. I've been there, So wait, why did you 380 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: say that you knew for sure that that something was up? Well? 381 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: I had text Niles a few times and gotten no response, 382 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: which had me super annoyed because I had just gotten 383 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: on him earlier that morning about that, but I was 384 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: trying to brush it aside and just you know, saying 385 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: to myself, Michelle, relaxed, give him some space. You need 386 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: to get used to his independence, that sort of thing. 387 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: So when did you realize it wasn't just a case 388 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: of him being slow to get back. Me and my 389 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: so called date were waiting for a table at the 390 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: bar at l CLO's when I saw Jason's forty two 391 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: on the news with a bunch of cop cars in 392 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: the background, and my heart just sunk. But it was 393 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: also confusing because the first reporting just didn't make any 394 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: sense at all. The media was making it out to 395 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: be like there was a carjacking that led to a 396 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: cops murder and the kidnapping of another policeman. So I 397 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: just started own now is his phone up in Gerald's too? 398 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: But no answer. Do you remember what you said to 399 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: your data? As all this was unfolding, I didn't know 400 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 1: that man, nothing. I just grabbed my purse, walk out 401 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: the restaurant, got in my car and started driving over 402 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: to Jason's forty two. Helma was still playing a slow 403 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: way too slowly asked me he wasn't happy about sending 404 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 1: the medica in for nothing, as he put it. So 405 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: he instructed me and Hobbs to interrogate Darryl, which I 406 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,479 Speaker 1: wasn't totally mad at because at this point we were 407 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: still so far behind on intel. Not only was Detective 408 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: Patterson one of the most likable people I interviewed in 409 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: this process, he had recordings which I love. Here's a 410 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,959 Speaker 1: tape of Key and Sergeant Hobbs interviewing Darryl the medic 411 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: after he came out of Jason's forty two. So the 412 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: car jackers slash hostage takers, they beat up Sergeant Place 413 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: after they shot him over forty shot. There's three voices 414 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: on this recording, and I want to make sure you 415 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: know who's who That first voice, would you probably record nice? 416 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: Is Detective Patterson? Yes, maybe I don't know. That was 417 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: Darryll the medic, who you've already met. Look forget about 418 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: Sergeant Place for a second. The police or somebody beat 419 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: up one of the guys inside, the young one, Niles, 420 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: and I need to take my immobilization kid in there 421 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: and get this boy to a hospital. A S A P. Wait. 422 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: So the car jacker got beat up, and that right 423 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: there is Sergeant Hobbs. If you remember, he was supposed 424 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: to be in the trailer with the rest of the 425 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: hostage negotiation team. The commander Ammon's kicked him out. Did 426 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: you guys keep talking about a car jacker? I don't 427 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: want anything about that, man, Okay, settle down. We're just 428 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: trying to figure out who's running things. How many of 429 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: them are there? How many guns? Listened to me for 430 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: a second. There's a kid badly beat that I need 431 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: to get him to a hospital. His father has the gun. 432 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: He's the one in charge, his father. Wait, how do 433 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: you know it's his father? It's such something. He said, Uh, 434 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: help my boy out, and he said helped my boy, 435 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: like help my whole way out? Or was it more 436 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: like help my boy as it help my son? Did 437 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: the way that he's acting, I'm pretty sure what was that? 438 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: I jumped up so quick my recorder fell off my 439 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: lap right there. We had it all wrong? Could I 440 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: be frightened you? Detective Homer? I want you to be 441 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: totally Frankly, former Detective Patterson was never cut out for 442 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: this kind of job. His conduct that day was totally inappropriate, 443 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: and obviously others agree with me on that, which is 444 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: why he is no longer on the force. You don't 445 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: go popping your mouth off in the background while the 446 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: lead negotiator is on a call with an HD. You 447 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 1: know why that is because you run the risk of 448 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: emboldening the h D. And that's exactly what happened. Needless 449 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: to say, Homer and Patterson were clear early at odds 450 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: on how to run the negotiation, but as far as 451 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: my investigation goes home or in the department, weren't exactly 452 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: doing everything they could to help me create a detailed, 453 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: factual narrative. They were more concerned with pushing their narrative. Patterson, 454 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: on the other hand, was much more forthright and even 455 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 1: candid about his own mistakes. And not only that. Again, 456 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have access to 457 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: recordings of the throw line conversations. Mr Homer, listen, stop 458 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: fucking playing with me. Em T were both to come 459 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: right back. I want to do that for you, but 460 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: you have to deal with me and Nita. This is 461 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: how it works. Now. Why don't you send down Sergeant 462 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: Place and your guy that needs help. Yeah, that we 463 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: get both of them on their way to say Joe's hospital. Dan, 464 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: give this guy what he wants. Were you gonna lose 465 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: a free They hung up again. Kurtish you out of 466 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: your goddamn mind. There is a lot going on here, 467 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: so let me run it back for you, beat by beat. 468 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: While Gerald is talking to Halmer on the throw line, 469 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: Patterson enters the mobile command vehicle and you can hear 470 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: him in the background imploring Hallmark too given to Gerald's demands. 471 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: At the same time this is happening back in the bar, 472 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 1: Nile starts convulsion in the kitchen. Jason notices nile shaking 473 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,719 Speaker 1: body and calls out to Gerald. Gerald hangs the phone up, 474 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: then hobbles quickly over to check on his son and 475 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: sees Nile's body gyrating violently on the table. Without hesitation, 476 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: Gerald marches straight out the front door, his gun raised 477 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,719 Speaker 1: and pointed at a sea of cops. Every police officer 478 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: on the scene aims back at Gerald when the unthinkable happens, 479 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: I had tactical and all my men on a tight leash. 480 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: You never really know for sure until it's tested, right, Well, 481 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: this was that. Test Ander Ammon's recounts his thoughts when 482 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: Gerald came bursting out of the building. Any one of 483 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: my snipers could have dropped Gerald, but they held fire. 484 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: So good on them. That said snipers tend to be 485 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: a more disciplined bunch. Where we really caught a break, 486 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: is it? None of the policeman on the ground flinched, Kate. 487 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: If one man fired, it would have been like the 488 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: fourth of July out there. But that didn't happen either, 489 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: So good on all them too, especially considering we could 490 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: have mistakenly fired on that crazy e MT. So, Darryl, 491 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: what were you thinking when you went charging in between 492 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: the police and Gerald like that? I wasn't thinking, but 493 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: in all honesty, as soon as I saw Gerald come outside, 494 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: I knew exactly what was going on. Luckily I was 495 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: sitting on the bumper of my vehicle, so I just 496 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: reached up and I grabbed my DFIB kit and the stretcher, 497 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: then ran as fast as I could toward the building. 498 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: I have probably watched the YouTube clip of you charging 499 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: with your gear towards the bar at least ten times. 500 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: Did you consider how dangerous of a situation that was? 501 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: I didn't. I just stacted. You know a lot of 502 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: people would say what you did was heroic. I'd say 503 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: more like one part foolish, one part guilty conscience and 504 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: one small part heroic. What part was guilty conscience? I 505 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: should have bolted for that door a lot sooner, and 506 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: I knew that kid needed immediate help. Who knows if 507 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: I had gotten him sooner? Who knows? You know? Do 508 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: you think the outcome could have been different? Maybe? I 509 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: set up the archive surveillance feeds from the bar and 510 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: I played them on my computer monitor for Darryl and 511 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: asked him to talk me through what we're seeing and hearing. 512 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: Starting here, Yeah, that's good, cool, Okay. So here Gerald 513 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: is pointing his gun at the police. They all have 514 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: their guns trained on him. I go running and sort 515 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: of brushed past Gerald at the door on my way 516 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: into the bar. In the video you can see him 517 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: falling behind me, And in this camera you can see 518 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: we rushed straight over the kitchen and by the time 519 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: I get to Niles, he's unresponsive. I check his pulse, nothing. 520 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,719 Speaker 1: I cut an Aile's shirt open and proceed to give 521 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: him chest compressions. Two three, six eight h I'm wanna 522 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: take going for me? True wow. Touch of patient analyzing 523 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: from the patient to stand back shot will be deliverer 524 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: and three two shot. Done doing that, he's him Wait, 525 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: let the corn do its thing. When Darrel says rather clinically, 526 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: he's in spasm. This may be the most terrifying thing 527 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: I've ever seen, and part of me felt like it 528 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: was overkilled to describe what it looks like. But then 529 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: I said, fuck that, because passing current through this kid's 530 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: body twice, the first time outside when he was being 531 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: taste and now in an effort to revive him, is 532 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: part of the horror of what was done to him. 533 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: So here goes. The current doesn't move like a sudden jolt. 534 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: It's more like a rolling wave. Niles tongue would sort 535 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: of stick out of his mouth and then undulate and twirl, 536 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: and his fingers curled up like he suffered from cerebral policy, 537 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: and then his body would relax, almost as if a 538 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: demon was being slowly exercised. Three shot, one shot delivered, 539 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: Hey me at right back, take over chess compressions again 540 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:13,959 Speaker 1: out wow, six seven, commencing about the mouth six seven. 541 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: They repeat this, physically punishing an emotionally draining cycle for 542 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: more than ten minutes. It's pretty apparent by this point 543 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: that CPR isn't working. Gerald is still doing chess compressions, 544 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: but the machine is asking him to clear. We shocked 545 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: him six times, which is a lot. General rule of 546 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: thumb is if a patient doesn't revive after three shocks, 547 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: it's not likely to happen. Hey, look, he's spokeful man. Sure, 548 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,479 Speaker 1: even as a professional, it can be very difficult stop 549 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: life saving efforts. But you know when he's done. When 550 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: when you've done all you can, Jas puts his hand 551 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: on Gerald's arm, and Gerald sort of slaps Jace away 552 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: and takes a step back. The fun out. At the time, 553 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: part of me wanted to ask if I could check 554 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: on Sergeant Place, but something told me it was not 555 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: the time to press my luck. If I was a hero, 556 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: like people said, I would have insisted that I get 557 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: to go treat Sergeant Place as well. But I didn't 558 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: want to sit Gerald off, you know. Plus, from what 559 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,240 Speaker 1: I could see, the police officers still had time. Towards 560 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: the end of my discussion with Darryl, I asked him 561 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: if there was anything else, any detail about either of 562 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:49,959 Speaker 1: the two times he was in the bar that could 563 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: shed some light on the day's events. No, not really, 564 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: Oh well, yeah, I guess there's something. Um did I 565 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: tell you that my wife and I just had her 566 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: second kid? Oh no, he didn't. Congratulations, thanks, Little sucker 567 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: called us totally by surprise. It wasn't planned at all, 568 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: and we found out really late. Anyway, when we went 569 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: in for the gender appointment, the doctor told us it 570 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: was a boy, and I leaned over to my wife 571 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: and I said, right then and there, I know what 572 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: I wanted his name to be. You named him Niles? No, 573 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: we named him Gerald. Wow, that's after everything? Why, well, 574 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: he did everything he could for his boy. I can't 575 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: say I would make all of the same choices, but 576 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: I'd like to think that I'd do anything for either 577 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 1: of my kids. So yeah. As we watched the valence 578 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: footage of Darryl exiting the bar for the second time, 579 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: Swap meets him at the door with the same level 580 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: of militaristic gusto that they read it him with the 581 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 1: first time he left the building. It felt different. How's 582 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,439 Speaker 1: that being carried away from the building The first time 583 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,839 Speaker 1: I felt like I was floating. Second time, I was 584 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: conscious of my own weight. I was literally thinking, why 585 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: am I so heavy? When that reporter shofter microphone in 586 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: my face? Can you tell us what it's like in there, 587 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: back off the areas off limits, like what was that? 588 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: Who fire? Who fire? I don't know. I think it 589 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: came from inside. More in what Happens next Time on 590 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: hashtag Matter. Hashtag Matter starring Aman Joseph as Gerald Hayes, 591 00:36:54,440 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: Jennifer Christopher as Kate Bell, Steve Harris as Jason shaw Hayley, 592 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: Joel Osman as Sergeant Place, Pooch Hall as Martin Sims, 593 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: and Snoop Dogg as Big H. Additional performances by Nile 594 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: Bullock as Niles Hayes, Serena Pouncey as Michelle Hayes, Monte 595 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: Russell as Detective Patterson, and Alex Vaughan as Darryl Hanover. 596 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: Hashtag Matter was written and directed by Dylan C. Brown. 597 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Sandy Bailey, Lauren Holman, Dylan Brown, 598 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: Winnie Kemp, and Amon Joseph. Audio designed by Wolf at 599 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:41,800 Speaker 1: the Door, sound design and mix by Josh Falcon, music 600 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: by Jonathan Sandford, edited by Darren Bowling, and our sound 601 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: director is Alexander Kemp. Produced by Toby Lawless and Lucy Jones. 602 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: Casting by Lawless Casting. Hashtag Matter is a production of 603 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio and 604 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: an association with Wolf at the Door. For more podcasts 605 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: from shod Land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 606 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,320 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.