WEBVTT - Mobits Extra: Burrata and Anchovies with Major Garrett 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:04.360 Hi everyone, it's Mo. I'm excited to report that I'll 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:08.960 be sharing brand new Mobituaries starting on January eleven. In 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:11.640 the meantime, i'd like you to hear a special conversation 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:15.360 I recorded with my CBS News colleague and friend Major 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:19.880 Garrett back in November. Major has a terrific podcast called 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.440 The Takeout, and as the name would suggest, most episodes 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:26.760 are taped over a meal. For this chat, we dined 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:30.640 together at Trattoria del Arte, across from Carnegie Hall here 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:33.960 in New York City. We talked in depth about season 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:39.000 three of Mobituaries while gnashing on barata and octopus. Actually 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:41.240 I did all the eating, which I feel kind of 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:44.720 bad about. I really don't mind sharing, really, unless it's 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:47.120 a wet dessert. I will not share a wet dessert. 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:50.240 I'm sorry. It is way too intimate. Anyway, I got 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:53.040 to tell Major how some of this season's episodes came 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.680 to be. You'll also hear me talk about an episode 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.160 of Mobituaries we have coming up later in the month, 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.920 the story of Samantha's Math, the ten year old girl 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:05.360 from Maine whose letter to then Soviet premier Eurie and 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:09.520 drop Hop in the nineteen eighties made headlines. Here is 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.800 that episode of The Takeout, hosted by CBS News Chief 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:18.000 Washington Correspondent Major Garrett, featuring Me Morocca as his guest 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:33.319 five four three two one. But who's counting right? His 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:38.440 name is Major, Lady and gentleman. Please welcome Major Garrett 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:44.520 from the Nation's capital. Major fantastic. It's the Takeout. This 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.840 is a major team with CBS News Chief Washington Correspondent 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:53.480 Major Garrett, s CBS f s Major Garrett. Major, that's nonsense. 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:57.840 Brother is Major out of the dog house answers, Yes, 0:01:58.000 --> 0:01:59.920 welcome to the red best part of my broadcast week. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.080 Know we are winding to a close of the year 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.800 two and this episode is going to be particularly special 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.400 for me because it's about a topic I love. Maybe 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:11.800 it's a topic you love too. It's a podcast, not 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.680 this one. There's no podcast I love more than this one. 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.680 You know that, my dear friends. But it's very close. 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:27.480 Mobituaries Obituaries is the beautiful, luminous journalistic work of Mo Rocca. Mo. 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:29.920 It's great to see you, thanks for being with you, 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:33.200 and I mean this. It is an amazing achievement. I 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.880 love every episode. I immerse myself in every episode and 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.440 I am enriched by every episode. I'm just gonna fanboy 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:41.359 on you for like the next forty five minutes. If 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.119 that's okay, It is totally fine. And I did bring 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.000 my wallet, by the way, unless this is no no, 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:49.480 dinner is always on us here at the take out. 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.160 So speaking of that, we are in New York City, 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.520 Trotteria del arte. What are you that? For me? Is 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.400 that okay? That was like passable? It was great? And 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.680 we're gonna talk talk about mobituaries. You're midway through season three. 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.519 The second part of season three will start right about 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:10.200 when three starts. For those who may not know about 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:16.079 this wonderful place to find great stories about Americans who've 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:20.440 been slightly overlooked or maybe heavily overlooked. What is the construct? 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:24.520 What is the premise the passion behind mobituaries? So it's 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:32.040 people or things um in uh this season we even 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:36.960 included a fruit uh that um that deserve a second look, 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.920 that passed on and didn't get the recognition that I 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.600 think they deserved. Um. And then they also what is 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:47.600 that I love that? I love that? How special is 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:51.120 that Morocco? That will be all yours I know because 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.080 you saw the dog. Oh that's great. The baratas, and 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:59.480 thank you for writing the anchovies. Barata is nothing without anchovies. Okay, great, 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.760 thank you so much. I think very mans is an 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:07.920 indulgent culinary experience entirely from Orocco. I'm guessing you saw 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.920 the documentary about the octopus, right that everybody that I 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.120 see all the documentaries on octopus. Yeah, and so that's 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.200 why I have not I'm waiting to see it until 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.400 after I eat this. So it's basically things that I 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:23.480 think deserve a second look that didn't get the send 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:25.280 off they deserved the first time. Or maybe he didn't 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:28.680 get any send off at all. Um So, already this 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:32.880 season we had John Denver uh with names, and I'm 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:34.880 sorry that we didn't include Major, but that would have 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.120 been really interesting. Actually, do you know where it ranks major? 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.359 Very very low, very very It does not make the 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.280 top ten thousand, I don't think ever, but that's been 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.000 an advantage for me, so I'm good with that. It 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.159 probably is so yeah. So, um So, we looked at 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:53.640 names like Mildred, Bertha and Todd, which um fell off 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.800 the map. I was surprised that Todd had fallen off 0:04:55.839 --> 0:05:00.159 the map in the early seventies. Um, and uh so 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.160 it's been it's been a blast just to kind of 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:05.839 dive into these different topics. And what strikes me about 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:11.760 this second look process is in some instances the subject 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.000 matter got a look like John Denver, for example, John 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:19.560 Denver in his time well as a sensation, and the 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.680 treatment of at this time was He's different than the 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:28.000 caricature or the popular understanding of what John Denver was. Well, 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.279 you know, I don't know if you remember this, and look, 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.800 it might have just been in my own little tiny 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:38.280 corner of the world. But when he died and I didn't, 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.120 we didn't mention this in the podcast, but I remember 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:45.640 a lot of like really snarky jokes about him, and 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.080 it was sort of the same way as a child 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.920 that I remembered when Elvis died. The very first time 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.680 I heard the word loser was on the playground at 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:58.119 Woodacre's Elementary School in Bethesda, Maryland, and Elvis had died, 0:05:58.200 --> 0:05:59.880 I guess in the summer. And when I came was 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.080 showed up in August. Yeah, in third grade, and somebody 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.720 mentioned Elvis and this girl said he was a loser, 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:11.800 and oh, yeah, and exactly right, no, exactly and but 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:13.839 but John Denver had come to this place where he'd 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.800 sort of become a punch line, and and so I thought, well, 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.560 that's this is rich because I'm not the only one 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.120 telling Alexa to play John Denver's Greatest Heads. A lot 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.400 of people are doing this. And Kurt Cobain apparently when 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.400 he grew up, his mother only had one album in 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.839 the house and it was the John Denverus Greatest Heads, 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:35.520 and he listened to it over and over again. And 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:39.200 I was probably morocc is sympathetic to that retelling of 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:41.280 the John Denver story because I think that's what's going 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.160 to happen when Neil Diamond dies. And I'm a huge 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.880 Neil Diamond fan and not apologetic Neil Diamond fan. I 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.440 believe he is an exceptional songwriter. His latter part of 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.200 his career is a little bit kitchier than the first 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.039 part of his career, but I think he's a substantial 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.120 member of the American song book, and he's not treated 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:58.479 that way. He's not regarded that way. And I think 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:02.960 when whatever that day comes, it will be a sequined 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:06.080 reference and a lot of ribbing of people on the 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:08.320 in the side. Well, that guy was really kind of 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:12.239 just a low level entertainer. Not true. Yeah, I agree 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.240 with that. What I mean people at ben Way would 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:18.960 what right, Caroline, Yeah, but but but also just regard 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.040 that as like a baseball song. No, it's actually a 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.800 really good song in itself. Well, I think you're I 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:25.840 think this is what happens. It seems like with a 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:30.880 lot of really really um mass appeal entertainers. And of 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.600 course it's foolish, like the audience is smart. They attach 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.160 themselves to something for a good reason. People punched through 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:43.880 not by accident, and the process of a mobituary is 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:48.040 too tell the story of a person's life in the 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.400 context of the times in which they lived in not 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.680 are modern times, because some of the issues and some 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.320 of the people are viewed maybe more harshly now than 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.480 they were in the time in which they lived, or 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.560 they were subject to pressures unlike the pressures they would 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.080 face now. Back in season two, there's a tribute to 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.400 really one of the greatest entertainers ever, Sammy Davis Jr. Right, 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.760 And that story is about his time, his struggles and 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.920 how he moved through them. Yeah, I think it's I 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:25.560 mean I'd like to try to go back and and 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.200 and help the audience understand how the person was received 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.200 in their time. I mean, obviously there's a point of view, 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:32.880 So I mean, I can't if it would be a 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.719 cheat for me to say, oh, we're not judging them 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.480 by contemporary standards, it's not true. But I also don't 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.240 want to look when we did Latin Lovers in the 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:46.160 first half of this season Valentino, Roman Navarro, Fernando Lamas. 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.240 You know, Valentino is a hundred years before me too, Okay, 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.680 And so I get it these a lot of these 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:57.640 movies haven't dated well. Um, but of movie goers were 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:00.160 women at the time, and he was created by men. 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.000 I mean, the matinee Idol was created by women who 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.720 at that time, you know, that's what they wanted. And 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.560 so I didn't feel like digging up women that have 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:12.840 been dead for seventy and eighty years and putting them 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:15.800 on trial. I mean, for like what they liked. I 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.120 think it's you know, it's it's sort of this is 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.040 what was at the time, and of course, you know, 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.840 we add a little bit of like my viewpoint on it. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.520 But I'm interested in what created this phenomena at the time. 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.760 Why why people were literally killing themselves when he died, 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.760 because there was such hysteria. And tastes are tastes, and 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.400 one of the ways to understand how a culture evolves 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:42.360 is to understand tastes of a different era. Totally, yes, 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.120 And if you don't understand the taste of a different area, 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.679 you can't mark yourself and how things have changed. And 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:53.720 one of the ways of appreciating and sort of quantifying 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.240 change and evolution is, well, what were the taste back then? 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:02.120 And why how do we get here? And also, I 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.360 don't think I don't think most people are that judgmental anyway. 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.199 I don't think most place senior. Oh, that's so terrible. 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:11.360 I mean, there is a there is a sort of 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:15.920 self defined judgment or judgmental industrial complex, but most people 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.600 are not a member of it. That's hysterical. The judgmental 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:24.040 industrial complex is perfect, that's perfect. Yeah, if it most 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.640 people don't count themselves in that, and they want to know. Like, 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.480 for example, going back to John Denver, I didn't realize 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.679 until I listened, not only didn't he have a successful 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:36.520 songwriting career, but and we'll talk more about this on 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.480 the other side of the break. Uh, he had one 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.600 of the most watched Christmas specials in the history of 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.920 broadcast television. Yes, yes, I mean it's not it's it's 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:51.920 it's not quite the level of say my podcast or yours. 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.840 Sixty five million people tuned in to the Rocky Mountain 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.959 Christmas Special in and you know when I found it. 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:00.800 You can find it on YouTube to but don't. I'm 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.280 not sure it's supposed to be there, but it's um 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.800 it is. And you know, you and I are not 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:09.160 far apart in age, and so you can smell the 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:11.720 seventies just by listening to this thing. It is so 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:16.440 evocative of kind of a weird sort of one kind 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:20.240 of energy, you know, John Denver, it's sort of There 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:24.160 are scenes of nature. There's um flying a slow most 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.560 shot of a flying squirrel. There's a sequence on the 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.240 life's life cycle of the brook trout. And we're gonna 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.079 hold on the brook trout and all the other scenery 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:33.760 because we need to go to break. Do we have 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:39.560 brook Trout coming by the way, because Garrett Segment two 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:50.760 of the takeout coming up intil a second from CBS News. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.560 This is the takeout with Major Garrett Welcome back to 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:59.079 segment two of the Takeout Trotta del Arte in Midtown Manhattan. 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.199 Our special guest Rocca and I am just gonna fanboy 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.120 for the next forty minutes because it's about mobituaries. It's 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.200 about this phenomenal podcast that grew out of your work 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:17.880 on CBS Sunday Morning, and this gathering of information, observation 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:22.480 and archival sound that brings to life people who deserve 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.040 a second look. And we'll get back to the John 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:28.760 Denver Christmas Special from a second. But you are the 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.439 editorial agent of control over who gets the second look, 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:33.719 are you not? Yeah? I mean, I don't know. I 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:35.400 don't know if you feel this way too. I just 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:39.280 feel like I've learned to trust my gut. I don't 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.760 want that in a leader necessarily, but like for editorial, 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.559 you know, if something gets me in the gut. I 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:51.000 think there's something about, say John Denver that and I 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:52.960 mentioned this in the podcast. I was this is going 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:54.960 to be a name drop. But I participated in a 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:59.760 reading that a friend put on a playwright and Julianne 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:01.560 Moore was there and she sat right next to me. 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.000 It was really cool, and and my friend was being 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.960 very nice and said, oh, Julianne, you have to listen 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.319 to most podcast in obituaries. He explained what it was, 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:10.679 and she said, who do you have coming up? And 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.880 I said John Denver and she like she melted, She 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:21.240 went John Denver and and she like was it's sort 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.079 of like she stepped into a time machine right there 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:26.560 and went back and and was just exhaled and and 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:30.280 uh um. And I think that there's something that makes people. 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.520 He's what I call an undervalued stock. And I think 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.800 there are people like that that they're sitting somewhere in 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.000 the back of our minds, and then if you bring 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.280 them up, people go, oh my god, that's right. I 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.040 loved that person. And if you can find those are 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.840 people that I'm always kind of like, who who is 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.640 a person like that? And go back to the Christmas Special? 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.400 So did you say sixty eight million people watch this? 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.520 Six that is? So this is remember Dais and gentle 0:13:57.640 --> 0:13:59.320 let's just go back in the way back machine with 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:04.560 Mr Peabody. Yeah. So broadcast television back then was a 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.160 mass audience structure. Three networks that were not a lot 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.760 of choices were streaming alternatives. There weren't cable alternatives. But 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:16.600 still it was highly competitive because of that intense segmented 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.840 So if you pulled sixty eight million, you were literally 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:24.320 pulling ten million viewers from two other networks at that hour. 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:26.800 It is Listen, you're absolutely right when people say, oh, 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:28.840 there were only three networks. Okay, that's fine, but also 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.160 the country was also significantly smaller. Okay, the country had 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.640 I think probably you know, like two competitive zeal to 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.040 grab a million viewers, let alone ten million from another 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.760 network was off the chart. Yeah. And so when you 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.240 watch this thing, it's I mean, it's very weirdly seventies. 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.200 He's and basically he's like basically in a snow globe 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:51.600 and a biosphere that they've built for him in the rockies, 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.800 and he's got like grow eas and greenies as he 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.280 calls him. Inside. He has all this plant life inside 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.440 um and UM at the whole thing. I'm not surprised. 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:06.760 Imagine hanging Macromay baskets are probably in there somewhere. And 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.200 he's got the biggest stars of the day. He's got 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.800 Steve Martin in his Wild and Crazy Guy, UM period 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:20.080 and and Um, Valerie Harper, Olivia Newton, John Um and 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.640 he just sort of sings songs. There's kind of a 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.880 it's cheerful, but there's also something kind of wand and 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.080 sort of seventies about it. And think about the psyche 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.760 collectively of the country. Nine the bi centennial year. But 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:37.040 we're coming off Vietnam. We're wondering about what what America 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.560 means after two hundred years. We are still dealing with 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:42.560 the after effects of the civil rights movement, campus riots, 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:44.800 all of those things. Watergate is just right in the 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:51.400 rear view mirror. And this idea of almost like this 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:56.040 snow globe commune ye yep, sitting in the middle of 0:15:56.200 --> 0:16:02.520 living rooms across America found a place of traction psychically, 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.040 I think people if you look at it and you 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.800 think people just needed a break, people just needed a break. 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.520 And even the way everyone in the audience shots, the 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.920 reaction shots, I mean there's a there's a I wouldn't 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:21.640 say a like quality to it, but everyone looks mildly sedated, 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.360 like and so everyone's ballly um, it's like a very 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:31.080 like that crowd and uhum, and everyone sort of naturally attractive, 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:32.880 like no one seems to be wearing makeup, none of 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.640 the women and so um, and he's sort of strumming 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.240 his guitar and they're having a sing along. Um And 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.200 one of the things I love about the Mobituaries about 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.320 John Denver. And I promise we'll get onto other parts 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:46.160 of Mobituary Season three. But I found this deeply meaningful 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.200 to me because I had sort of overlooked John Denver 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:54.400 until recently got the greatest hits on my iTunes. And 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.600 we all remember, I certainly remember the time Rocky Mountain 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:03.680 High having a kind of hilarious end joke Rocky Mountain High, 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.520 everyone stone, that's not what the song is about. And 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.359 the first three stands of that song, I urged my 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:13.560 audience go back and listen to it. It is beautiful, 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:19.640 evocative life journey writing. It really is. And I mean yeah, 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.960 And he went and he testified in fact, but during 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:27.000 the um Parents Music Research Council, right the tipper Goore 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.920 hearings that what are commonly known as that and and said, 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:32.920 you know, my song was not was not about that. 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:36.200 It seems almost quaint now because no one would care 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.080 today if they thought it then. And it was sort 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.439 of like an allegation against it, like a celebration of 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:43.880 sitting around a campfire just getting stoned and that's all 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.639 that's all American youth could do, and how terrible that was, 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:50.040 and we ought to do something about that. Arms Akind 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:54.760 Absolutely No, it was his. It was his reaction to 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.880 seeing the the parased meteor shower from twelve thousand feet 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:00.960 up in the Rockies and how beautiful that was. Damn 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:06.920 exactly exactly. Um, how is it that people like John Denver? 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.440 And I imagine you've thought about this because you're saying 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:14.400 this person deserves a second look? Have you ever come 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.720 to a unified theory about why they didn't get the 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:21.760 good look the first time? M Um? Well, I think 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.119 it's probably different in every case. I think for John Denver, 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.760 I do think that he would have been recognized more 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.080 had he lived longer. And you know what you know, 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:33.359 as you know one of the in the podcast Bill 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.840 flan Again it was a great music writer, and I 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.680 talked about how today he might be Dolly Partner. He 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.800 might have been Dolly Partner, this enduring person of with 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.960 a with a great songbook that is a touchdowe for 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.200 lots of people over many generations. Yeah, I think so. 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.520 And I don't know what the statistics are, but I 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:54.679 bet that the number of times his songs are played 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.480 would probably surprise a lot of us, like how they're 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.359 still played. So, um, yeah, I think you would be 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.199 a figure like that. And uh so I'm not, I'm not, 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.320 I'm not sure. It's it's a it's I think it's 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.879 different every time. So who is Mr and Mrs Smith 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.040 And why did they rate a mobituary? Well? Mr and 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:16.280 Mrs Smith rated him obituary because actually the producer of 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:20.840 that episode, um Zoe Marcus, had sent long ago an 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:25.159 image of a Time magazine cover from seven Um that 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.960 simply says Mr and Mrs Smith an interracial marriage. And 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.919 I remember being struck that I had not known the 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:36.400 story that Dean Rusk, the Georgia Democrat who was um 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:40.439 the Secretary of State under Kennedy and and LBJ, that 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.399 his daughter, who was white, married a black man in 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.080 seven and that that would have been put on the 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.720 cover of Time magazine. And and one of the details 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.879 really jumped out at me that Dean Rusk, her father, 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:56.439 had offered his resignation to the president because he was 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:01.320 worried that the publicity around it would comprom eyes, you know, 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.680 crucial Southern support and Congress for the president's agenda on 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.560 like a civil rights in Vietnam. But um that one 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:14.720 marriage could be so galvanized as to possibly jeopardize the 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.679 political prospects of a president of the United States. Right. 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.400 But what also kind of captivated me was the idea 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.639 of this young couple in love who end up on 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.480 the cover of Time magazine and then are completely forgotten, 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:30.320 which they were very happy about. They retired, They moved 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:34.600 as young people to central Virginia and raised horses all 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:36.920 their lives. I mean, she was Peggy Rusk of the 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.840 daughter of the Secretary of State, was not like a 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.399 did not aspire to be a Washington doyenne or social climber. 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.800 She just had no interest in that. She found this guy, 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:47.879 fell in love, they married, and they just wanted to 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:49.960 get away from it all and be with horses, which 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.359 is how they met. And why is nineteen sixty seven 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.000 a particularly important year because it ends up being this 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:59.320 year where it starts with um loving versus Virginia and 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:03.800 the unanim mis ruling and um uh that struck down 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:07.720 bands in sixteen states against mixed race marriages. And then 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:09.720 you have this marriage in the middle, and then you 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:14.000 have guests Who's coming to dinner? Um, huge box office 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.760 success at the end of that year. And then there's 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:20.000 a little detail that I thought was really interesting that 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:22.760 Sidney pot I'm gonna hold you right there because that 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:26.040 interesting detail is a perfect segue and a grabber for 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:28.960 the next segment of the Takeout, And that's what Rocca 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:31.520 is doing. And the broados here and I'm Major Garrett 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:36.040 back for more of our deeply enjoyable conversation about Mobituary 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:52.240 season three here on the Takeout from CBS News. This 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.720 is the Takeout with Major Garrett. Welcome back. This is 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:58.679 not a rhetorical question. How delightful is it to spend 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.480 the end of twenty two in the presence of Mo 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.920 Rocca in downtown Midtown, New York. It's spectacular. I told 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.600 you it was not a rhetorical question. Our subject matter 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:12.399 is Mo Rocca. Of course, Mobituaries. Midway through season three, UM, 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:14.720 we're talking about Mr and Mrs Smith. One of the 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:20.320 things I found very interesting about that episode is Dean 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:25.280 Rusk's daughter, who becomes Mrs Smith, doesn't really think much 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:28.280 of guests Who's coming to dinner? The movie which wasn't, 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.639 as you said, a box office sensation then and is 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:34.680 regarded as one of these turning point movies of its time, 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:41.000 and people who watch it now find great inspiration, substance, emotion, 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:43.880 and a kind of clarity in it. But that didn't 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:45.959 really land that way with her. It sounded like to me, 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:48.520 you know, it didn't. And I found her as a 0:22:48.640 --> 0:22:53.680 character so interesting because she was and and I'm sure 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:57.320 when you encounter this, i'd like, I'm guessing you're happy 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:01.320 about it. She's like someone who's never watching TV because 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:04.720 she doesn't have the cadence of a TV interviewee. She 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:08.560 just answers like she'll sometimes do like one word answers 0:23:09.119 --> 0:23:11.840 and she talks like a normal person. I'm like, what 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:14.240 are you doing? Why are you being so normal? Like 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:16.679 you're supposed to talk like people do on TV and 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:19.439 give these answers. You're just to give me the answers 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:22.640 I'm expecting, what is wrong here? No, it's so and 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:24.639 but what I what What I also found sort of 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:29.520 inspiring is kind of she had this clarity that she 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:31.720 was in love with this guy and that's all that matters. 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:34.159