1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, it's Mo. I'm excited to report that I'll 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: be sharing brand new Mobituaries starting on January eleven. In 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: the meantime, i'd like you to hear a special conversation 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: I recorded with my CBS News colleague and friend Major 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: Garrett back in November. Major has a terrific podcast called 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: The Takeout, and as the name would suggest, most episodes 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: are taped over a meal. For this chat, we dined 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: together at Trattoria del Arte, across from Carnegie Hall here 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: in New York City. We talked in depth about season 10 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: three of Mobituaries while gnashing on barata and octopus. Actually 11 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: I did all the eating, which I feel kind of 12 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: bad about. I really don't mind sharing, really, unless it's 13 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: a wet dessert. I will not share a wet dessert. 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. It is way too intimate. Anyway, I got 15 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: to tell Major how some of this season's episodes came 16 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: to be. You'll also hear me talk about an episode 17 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: of Mobituaries we have coming up later in the month, 18 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: the story of Samantha's Math, the ten year old girl 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: from Maine whose letter to then Soviet premier Eurie and 20 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: drop Hop in the nineteen eighties made headlines. Here is 21 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: that episode of The Takeout, hosted by CBS News Chief 22 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: Washington Correspondent Major Garrett, featuring Me Morocca as his guest 23 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: five four three two one. But who's counting right? His 24 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: name is Major, Lady and gentleman. Please welcome Major Garrett 25 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: from the Nation's capital. Major fantastic. It's the Takeout. This 26 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: is a major team with CBS News Chief Washington Correspondent 27 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: Major Garrett, s CBS f s Major Garrett. Major, that's nonsense. 28 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: Brother is Major out of the dog house answers, Yes, 29 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: welcome to the red best part of my broadcast week. 30 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: Know we are winding to a close of the year 31 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: two and this episode is going to be particularly special 32 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: for me because it's about a topic I love. Maybe 33 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: it's a topic you love too. It's a podcast, not 34 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: this one. There's no podcast I love more than this one. 35 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: You know that, my dear friends. But it's very close. 36 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: Mobituaries Obituaries is the beautiful, luminous journalistic work of Mo Rocca. Mo. 37 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: It's great to see you, thanks for being with you, 38 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: and I mean this. It is an amazing achievement. I 39 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: love every episode. I immerse myself in every episode and 40 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: I am enriched by every episode. I'm just gonna fanboy 41 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: on you for like the next forty five minutes. If 42 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,119 Speaker 1: that's okay, It is totally fine. And I did bring 43 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: my wallet, by the way, unless this is no no, 44 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: dinner is always on us here at the take out. 45 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: So speaking of that, we are in New York City, 46 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: Trotteria del arte. What are you that? For me? Is 47 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: that okay? That was like passable? It was great? And 48 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk talk about mobituaries. You're midway through season three. 49 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: The second part of season three will start right about 50 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: when three starts. For those who may not know about 51 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: this wonderful place to find great stories about Americans who've 52 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: been slightly overlooked or maybe heavily overlooked. What is the construct? 53 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: What is the premise the passion behind mobituaries? So it's 54 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: people or things um in uh this season we even 55 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: included a fruit uh that um that deserve a second look, 56 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: that passed on and didn't get the recognition that I 57 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: think they deserved. Um. And then they also what is 58 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: that I love that? I love that? How special is 59 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: that Morocco? That will be all yours I know because 60 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: you saw the dog. Oh that's great. The baratas, and 61 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: thank you for writing the anchovies. Barata is nothing without anchovies. Okay, great, 62 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: thank you so much. I think very mans is an 63 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: indulgent culinary experience entirely from Orocco. I'm guessing you saw 64 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: the documentary about the octopus, right that everybody that I 65 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: see all the documentaries on octopus. Yeah, and so that's 66 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: why I have not I'm waiting to see it until 67 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: after I eat this. So it's basically things that I 68 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: think deserve a second look that didn't get the send 69 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: off they deserved the first time. Or maybe he didn't 70 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: get any send off at all. Um So, already this 71 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: season we had John Denver uh with names, and I'm 72 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: sorry that we didn't include Major, but that would have 73 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: been really interesting. Actually, do you know where it ranks major? 74 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 1: Very very low, very very It does not make the 75 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 1: top ten thousand, I don't think ever, but that's been 76 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: an advantage for me, so I'm good with that. It 77 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: probably is so yeah. So, um So, we looked at 78 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: names like Mildred, Bertha and Todd, which um fell off 79 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: the map. I was surprised that Todd had fallen off 80 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: the map in the early seventies. Um, and uh so 81 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: it's been it's been a blast just to kind of 82 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: dive into these different topics. And what strikes me about 83 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: this second look process is in some instances the subject 84 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: matter got a look like John Denver, for example, John 85 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: Denver in his time well as a sensation, and the 86 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: treatment of at this time was He's different than the 87 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: caricature or the popular understanding of what John Denver was. Well, 88 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if you remember this, and look, 89 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: it might have just been in my own little tiny 90 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: corner of the world. But when he died and I didn't, 91 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: we didn't mention this in the podcast, but I remember 92 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: a lot of like really snarky jokes about him, and 93 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: it was sort of the same way as a child 94 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: that I remembered when Elvis died. The very first time 95 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: I heard the word loser was on the playground at 96 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,119 Speaker 1: Woodacre's Elementary School in Bethesda, Maryland, and Elvis had died, 97 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: I guess in the summer. And when I came was 98 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: showed up in August. Yeah, in third grade, and somebody 99 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: mentioned Elvis and this girl said he was a loser, 100 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: and oh, yeah, and exactly right, no, exactly and but 101 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: but John Denver had come to this place where he'd 102 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: sort of become a punch line, and and so I thought, well, 103 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: that's this is rich because I'm not the only one 104 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: telling Alexa to play John Denver's Greatest Heads. A lot 105 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: of people are doing this. And Kurt Cobain apparently when 106 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: he grew up, his mother only had one album in 107 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: the house and it was the John Denverus Greatest Heads, 108 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: and he listened to it over and over again. And 109 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: I was probably morocc is sympathetic to that retelling of 110 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: the John Denver story because I think that's what's going 111 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: to happen when Neil Diamond dies. And I'm a huge 112 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: Neil Diamond fan and not apologetic Neil Diamond fan. I 113 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: believe he is an exceptional songwriter. His latter part of 114 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: his career is a little bit kitchier than the first 115 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: part of his career, but I think he's a substantial 116 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: member of the American song book, and he's not treated 117 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: that way. He's not regarded that way. And I think 118 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: when whatever that day comes, it will be a sequined 119 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: reference and a lot of ribbing of people on the 120 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: in the side. Well, that guy was really kind of 121 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,239 Speaker 1: just a low level entertainer. Not true. Yeah, I agree 122 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: with that. What I mean people at ben Way would 123 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: what right, Caroline, Yeah, but but but also just regard 124 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: that as like a baseball song. No, it's actually a 125 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: really good song in itself. Well, I think you're I 126 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: think this is what happens. It seems like with a 127 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: lot of really really um mass appeal entertainers. And of 128 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: course it's foolish, like the audience is smart. They attach 129 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: themselves to something for a good reason. People punched through 130 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: not by accident, and the process of a mobituary is 131 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: too tell the story of a person's life in the 132 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: context of the times in which they lived in not 133 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: are modern times, because some of the issues and some 134 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: of the people are viewed maybe more harshly now than 135 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: they were in the time in which they lived, or 136 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: they were subject to pressures unlike the pressures they would 137 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: face now. Back in season two, there's a tribute to 138 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: really one of the greatest entertainers ever, Sammy Davis Jr. Right, 139 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: And that story is about his time, his struggles and 140 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: how he moved through them. Yeah, I think it's I 141 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: mean I'd like to try to go back and and 142 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: and help the audience understand how the person was received 143 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: in their time. I mean, obviously there's a point of view, 144 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: So I mean, I can't if it would be a 145 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: cheat for me to say, oh, we're not judging them 146 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: by contemporary standards, it's not true. But I also don't 147 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: want to look when we did Latin Lovers in the 148 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: first half of this season Valentino, Roman Navarro, Fernando Lamas. 149 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: You know, Valentino is a hundred years before me too, Okay, 150 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: And so I get it these a lot of these 151 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: movies haven't dated well. Um, but of movie goers were 152 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: women at the time, and he was created by men. 153 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: I mean, the matinee Idol was created by women who 154 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: at that time, you know, that's what they wanted. And 155 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: so I didn't feel like digging up women that have 156 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: been dead for seventy and eighty years and putting them 157 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: on trial. I mean, for like what they liked. I 158 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: think it's you know, it's it's sort of this is 159 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: what was at the time, and of course, you know, 160 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: we add a little bit of like my viewpoint on it. 161 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: But I'm interested in what created this phenomena at the time. 162 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: Why why people were literally killing themselves when he died, 163 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: because there was such hysteria. And tastes are tastes, and 164 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: one of the ways to understand how a culture evolves 165 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: is to understand tastes of a different era. Totally, yes, 166 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: And if you don't understand the taste of a different area, 167 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: you can't mark yourself and how things have changed. And 168 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: one of the ways of appreciating and sort of quantifying 169 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: change and evolution is, well, what were the taste back then? 170 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: And why how do we get here? And also, I 171 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: don't think I don't think most people are that judgmental anyway. 172 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: I don't think most place senior. Oh, that's so terrible. 173 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: I mean, there is a there is a sort of 174 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: self defined judgment or judgmental industrial complex, but most people 175 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: are not a member of it. That's hysterical. The judgmental 176 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: industrial complex is perfect, that's perfect. Yeah, if it most 177 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: people don't count themselves in that, and they want to know. Like, 178 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: for example, going back to John Denver, I didn't realize 179 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: until I listened, not only didn't he have a successful 180 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: songwriting career, but and we'll talk more about this on 181 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: the other side of the break. Uh, he had one 182 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: of the most watched Christmas specials in the history of 183 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: broadcast television. Yes, yes, I mean it's not it's it's 184 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: it's not quite the level of say my podcast or yours. 185 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: Sixty five million people tuned in to the Rocky Mountain 186 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: Christmas Special in and you know when I found it. 187 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: You can find it on YouTube to but don't. I'm 188 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: not sure it's supposed to be there, but it's um 189 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: it is. And you know, you and I are not 190 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: far apart in age, and so you can smell the 191 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: seventies just by listening to this thing. It is so 192 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: evocative of kind of a weird sort of one kind 193 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: of energy, you know, John Denver, it's sort of There 194 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: are scenes of nature. There's um flying a slow most 195 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: shot of a flying squirrel. There's a sequence on the 196 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: life's life cycle of the brook trout. And we're gonna 197 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: hold on the brook trout and all the other scenery 198 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: because we need to go to break. Do we have 199 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: brook Trout coming by the way, because Garrett Segment two 200 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: of the takeout coming up intil a second from CBS News. 201 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: This is the takeout with Major Garrett Welcome back to 202 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 1: segment two of the Takeout Trotta del Arte in Midtown Manhattan. 203 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 1: Our special guest Rocca and I am just gonna fanboy 204 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: for the next forty minutes because it's about mobituaries. It's 205 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: about this phenomenal podcast that grew out of your work 206 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: on CBS Sunday Morning, and this gathering of information, observation 207 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: and archival sound that brings to life people who deserve 208 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: a second look. And we'll get back to the John 209 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: Denver Christmas Special from a second. But you are the 210 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: editorial agent of control over who gets the second look, 211 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,719 Speaker 1: are you not? Yeah? I mean, I don't know. I 212 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: don't know if you feel this way too. I just 213 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: feel like I've learned to trust my gut. I don't 214 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: want that in a leader necessarily, but like for editorial, 215 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: you know, if something gets me in the gut. I 216 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: think there's something about, say John Denver that and I 217 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: mentioned this in the podcast. I was this is going 218 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: to be a name drop. But I participated in a 219 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: reading that a friend put on a playwright and Julianne 220 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: Moore was there and she sat right next to me. 221 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: It was really cool, and and my friend was being 222 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: very nice and said, oh, Julianne, you have to listen 223 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 1: to most podcast in obituaries. He explained what it was, 224 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: and she said, who do you have coming up? And 225 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: I said John Denver and she like she melted, She 226 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: went John Denver and and she like was it's sort 227 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: of like she stepped into a time machine right there 228 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: and went back and and was just exhaled and and 229 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: uh um. And I think that there's something that makes people. 230 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: He's what I call an undervalued stock. And I think 231 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: there are people like that that they're sitting somewhere in 232 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: the back of our minds, and then if you bring 233 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: them up, people go, oh my god, that's right. I 234 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: loved that person. And if you can find those are 235 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: people that I'm always kind of like, who who is 236 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: a person like that? And go back to the Christmas Special? 237 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: So did you say sixty eight million people watch this? 238 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: Six that is? So this is remember Dais and gentle 239 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: let's just go back in the way back machine with 240 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: Mr Peabody. Yeah. So broadcast television back then was a 241 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: mass audience structure. Three networks that were not a lot 242 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: of choices were streaming alternatives. There weren't cable alternatives. But 243 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: still it was highly competitive because of that intense segmented 244 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: So if you pulled sixty eight million, you were literally 245 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: pulling ten million viewers from two other networks at that hour. 246 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: It is Listen, you're absolutely right when people say, oh, 247 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: there were only three networks. Okay, that's fine, but also 248 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: the country was also significantly smaller. Okay, the country had 249 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: I think probably you know, like two competitive zeal to 250 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: grab a million viewers, let alone ten million from another 251 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: network was off the chart. Yeah. And so when you 252 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: watch this thing, it's I mean, it's very weirdly seventies. 253 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: He's and basically he's like basically in a snow globe 254 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: and a biosphere that they've built for him in the rockies, 255 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: and he's got like grow eas and greenies as he 256 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: calls him. Inside. He has all this plant life inside 257 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: um and UM at the whole thing. I'm not surprised. 258 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: Imagine hanging Macromay baskets are probably in there somewhere. And 259 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: he's got the biggest stars of the day. He's got 260 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: Steve Martin in his Wild and Crazy Guy, UM period 261 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: and and Um, Valerie Harper, Olivia Newton, John Um and 262 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: he just sort of sings songs. There's kind of a 263 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: it's cheerful, but there's also something kind of wand and 264 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: sort of seventies about it. And think about the psyche 265 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: collectively of the country. Nine the bi centennial year. But 266 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: we're coming off Vietnam. We're wondering about what what America 267 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: means after two hundred years. We are still dealing with 268 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: the after effects of the civil rights movement, campus riots, 269 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: all of those things. Watergate is just right in the 270 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: rear view mirror. And this idea of almost like this 271 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: snow globe commune ye yep, sitting in the middle of 272 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: living rooms across America found a place of traction psychically, 273 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: I think people if you look at it and you 274 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: think people just needed a break, people just needed a break. 275 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: And even the way everyone in the audience shots, the 276 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: reaction shots, I mean there's a there's a I wouldn't 277 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: say a like quality to it, but everyone looks mildly sedated, 278 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: like and so everyone's ballly um, it's like a very 279 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: like that crowd and uhum, and everyone sort of naturally attractive, 280 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: like no one seems to be wearing makeup, none of 281 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: the women and so um, and he's sort of strumming 282 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: his guitar and they're having a sing along. Um And 283 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: one of the things I love about the Mobituaries about 284 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: John Denver. And I promise we'll get onto other parts 285 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: of Mobituary Season three. But I found this deeply meaningful 286 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: to me because I had sort of overlooked John Denver 287 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: until recently got the greatest hits on my iTunes. And 288 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: we all remember, I certainly remember the time Rocky Mountain 289 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: High having a kind of hilarious end joke Rocky Mountain High, 290 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: everyone stone, that's not what the song is about. And 291 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: the first three stands of that song, I urged my 292 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: audience go back and listen to it. It is beautiful, 293 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 1: evocative life journey writing. It really is. And I mean yeah, 294 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: And he went and he testified in fact, but during 295 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: the um Parents Music Research Council, right the tipper Goore 296 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: hearings that what are commonly known as that and and said, 297 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: you know, my song was not was not about that. 298 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: It seems almost quaint now because no one would care 299 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: today if they thought it then. And it was sort 300 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: of like an allegation against it, like a celebration of 301 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: sitting around a campfire just getting stoned and that's all 302 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: that's all American youth could do, and how terrible that was, 303 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: and we ought to do something about that. Arms Akind 304 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: Absolutely No, it was his. It was his reaction to 305 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: seeing the the parased meteor shower from twelve thousand feet 306 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: up in the Rockies and how beautiful that was. Damn 307 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: exactly exactly. Um, how is it that people like John Denver? 308 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: And I imagine you've thought about this because you're saying 309 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: this person deserves a second look? Have you ever come 310 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: to a unified theory about why they didn't get the 311 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: good look the first time? M Um? Well, I think 312 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: it's probably different in every case. I think for John Denver, 313 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: I do think that he would have been recognized more 314 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: had he lived longer. And you know what you know, 315 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: as you know one of the in the podcast Bill 316 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: flan Again it was a great music writer, and I 317 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: talked about how today he might be Dolly Partner. He 318 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: might have been Dolly Partner, this enduring person of with 319 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: a with a great songbook that is a touchdowe for 320 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: lots of people over many generations. Yeah, I think so. 321 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: And I don't know what the statistics are, but I 322 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: bet that the number of times his songs are played 323 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: would probably surprise a lot of us, like how they're 324 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: still played. So, um, yeah, I think you would be 325 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: a figure like that. And uh so I'm not, I'm not, 326 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. It's it's a it's I think it's 327 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: different every time. So who is Mr and Mrs Smith 328 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: And why did they rate a mobituary? Well? Mr and 329 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: Mrs Smith rated him obituary because actually the producer of 330 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: that episode, um Zoe Marcus, had sent long ago an 331 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: image of a Time magazine cover from seven Um that 332 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: simply says Mr and Mrs Smith an interracial marriage. And 333 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: I remember being struck that I had not known the 334 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: story that Dean Rusk, the Georgia Democrat who was um 335 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: the Secretary of State under Kennedy and and LBJ, that 336 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: his daughter, who was white, married a black man in 337 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: seven and that that would have been put on the 338 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: cover of Time magazine. And and one of the details 339 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: really jumped out at me that Dean Rusk, her father, 340 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: had offered his resignation to the president because he was 341 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: worried that the publicity around it would comprom eyes, you know, 342 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: crucial Southern support and Congress for the president's agenda on 343 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: like a civil rights in Vietnam. But um that one 344 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: marriage could be so galvanized as to possibly jeopardize the 345 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: political prospects of a president of the United States. Right. 346 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: But what also kind of captivated me was the idea 347 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: of this young couple in love who end up on 348 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: the cover of Time magazine and then are completely forgotten, 349 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: which they were very happy about. They retired, They moved 350 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: as young people to central Virginia and raised horses all 351 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: their lives. I mean, she was Peggy Rusk of the 352 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: daughter of the Secretary of State, was not like a 353 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: did not aspire to be a Washington doyenne or social climber. 354 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: She just had no interest in that. She found this guy, 355 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: fell in love, they married, and they just wanted to 356 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: get away from it all and be with horses, which 357 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: is how they met. And why is nineteen sixty seven 358 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: a particularly important year because it ends up being this 359 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: year where it starts with um loving versus Virginia and 360 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: the unanim mis ruling and um uh that struck down 361 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: bands in sixteen states against mixed race marriages. And then 362 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: you have this marriage in the middle, and then you 363 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: have guests Who's coming to dinner? Um, huge box office 364 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: success at the end of that year. And then there's 365 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: a little detail that I thought was really interesting that 366 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: Sidney pot I'm gonna hold you right there because that 367 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: interesting detail is a perfect segue and a grabber for 368 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: the next segment of the Takeout, And that's what Rocca 369 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: is doing. And the broados here and I'm Major Garrett 370 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: back for more of our deeply enjoyable conversation about Mobituary 371 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: season three here on the Takeout from CBS News. This 372 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: is the Takeout with Major Garrett. Welcome back. This is 373 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: not a rhetorical question. How delightful is it to spend 374 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: the end of twenty two in the presence of Mo 375 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: Rocca in downtown Midtown, New York. It's spectacular. I told 376 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: you it was not a rhetorical question. Our subject matter 377 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: is Mo Rocca. Of course, Mobituaries. Midway through season three, UM, 378 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: we're talking about Mr and Mrs Smith. One of the 379 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: things I found very interesting about that episode is Dean 380 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: Rusk's daughter, who becomes Mrs Smith, doesn't really think much 381 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: of guests Who's coming to dinner? The movie which wasn't, 382 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: as you said, a box office sensation then and is 383 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: regarded as one of these turning point movies of its time, 384 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: and people who watch it now find great inspiration, substance, emotion, 385 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 1: and a kind of clarity in it. But that didn't 386 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,959 Speaker 1: really land that way with her. It sounded like to me, 387 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: you know, it didn't. And I found her as a 388 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: character so interesting because she was and and I'm sure 389 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: when you encounter this, i'd like, I'm guessing you're happy 390 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: about it. She's like someone who's never watching TV because 391 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: she doesn't have the cadence of a TV interviewee. She 392 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: just answers like she'll sometimes do like one word answers 393 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: and she talks like a normal person. I'm like, what 394 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: are you doing? Why are you being so normal? Like 395 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: you're supposed to talk like people do on TV and 396 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: give these answers. You're just to give me the answers 397 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 1: I'm expecting, what is wrong here? No, it's so and 398 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: but what I what What I also found sort of 399 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: inspiring is kind of she had this clarity that she 400 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: was in love with this guy and that's all that matters. 401 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: She wasn't really I was sort of taken aback when 402 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: she says she wasn't following the Supreme Court case. Now, 403 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: that's probably because she was in a state where she 404 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: was in the district of Columbia and she was gonna 405 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: get married in California. There wasn't going to be an 406 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: issue there in were protected. Yeah, but but but she wasn't. 407 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: She just says, look, I don't know what to tell you. 408 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: I wasn't doing this to make a cultural impact or 409 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: make a political point. I was doing it because I 410 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: was in love. And when I interviewed the great entertainer 411 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: Leslie Ulghams, who married a white man an Austar alien 412 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: two years before in she sort of said the same thing, like, 413 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: you know, when you're in love with somebody, you're not 414 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: really thinking about the social issue aspect of it. I mean, 415 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: you know, and that's maybe one of the ways, you know, 416 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: it's really deep and abiding for them, right, because they're 417 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 1: not distracted by all these other things. They just know 418 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: what they are, who they are, and what it means 419 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: to be together, right, And there's a abject beauty to 420 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: that mm hmm. Completely, it's so pure, and then it's 421 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: it's sort of plainness and ordinariness. It seems to me 422 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: as I was listening felt extraordinary. Yeah, well, I'm glad 423 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: you feel that way. Thank you, and uh and thank her. 424 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: But it's um, and I hope that that's why it's 425 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: that that people that it's landing with a lot of 426 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: people who are sick of everything, every personal story becoming 427 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: news becoming a political story necessarily because it doesn't. It 428 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: just doesn't, it doesn't fit it that neatly. And if 429 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: you allow me, well, I'd like to reach back to 430 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: season two, uh to talk about Sammy Davis Jr. Um, 431 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 1: because some in this audience may not have a real memory. Uh, 432 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: Sammy Davis Jr. You have to be a person at 433 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: a certain age like you and I are you. And 434 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: I grew up watching Sammy on television and even then 435 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: I knew he was amazing, but I didn't know until 436 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: I listened to the show how highly he was regarded 437 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: by the superstars of his time. Yeah, he really was. 438 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: When he was at Ciro's nightclub in Los Angeles, I 439 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: mean people, everyone wanted to get in and see him perform. 440 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: And he was quite young then. He was primarily a 441 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: dancer then and uh, um and part of a nightclub 442 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: act with his father and part of the will Maston trio. Um. 443 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: But even then, you know, people were fighting to get 444 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: in and see this this masterful performer. And then he 445 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: lost his eye and he came back from that. But 446 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: part of why I wanted to do him just because 447 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: not just my admiration and affection and call it death 448 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: of an entertainer, is because entertainer the word. Sometimes people 449 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: are a little kind of I think it sounds a 450 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: little cheeseball, but they're dismissive it, right. But to be 451 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: a capital e entertainer like that, um, that's really special. 452 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: To be somebody who performs, you know, in Vegas and 453 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 1: then goes back to his hotel room and does the 454 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: whole act again with lizam and Ellie because they both 455 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 1: just love performing. That's like, that's a certain drive and 456 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: an energy that that we all are great should be 457 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: grateful for to have that person in our lives. And 458 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: there's a theme in that mobituary that I think is 459 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: also important because looking back at entertainers of that era, 460 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 1: So in the TV era who made it big, they 461 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: came out of vaudeville, which was a place that demanded 462 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: not just one talent. You could not be successful in 463 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: vaudeville as a single talent entertainer. No, I mean he 464 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: was sort of a quintuple threat. I guess, actor, singer, dancer. 465 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: He had the gun spinning routine, which was really amazing. Uh. 466 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: He was also a really great impressionist, and he was 467 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: also groundbreaking impressionist because he was a black impressionist, um, 468 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 1: imitating white actors. But and when he did that in 469 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 1: the army after being physically beaten regularly, you know, because 470 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: he was part of the first wave of integrated forces. Um, 471 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: he was so good that that even like the abusive 472 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,719 Speaker 1: white you know, soldiers who would bullied him and worse, 473 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: you know, we're like, whoa, this guy is really special. 474 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: And one other theme that comes through subtly. But I 475 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: think it's important because it's a hallmark of people who 476 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: are successful in times when their success is harder than 477 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: the people they are around. There was a tenacity to Sammy. Yeah, 478 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: they're yeah, there there was. There was, there was a 479 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 1: tenacity he kept going. And I think also there's something, Um, 480 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: I find something. I actually, weirdly enough, was thinking a 481 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: little bit of Ellen DeGeneres when I was doing this, 482 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: because I remember when I profiled her that she said, 483 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: you know, I just want to make people laugh. I 484 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: just want to be an entertainer. And she sort of 485 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: got caught up in one point in politics and having 486 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: you know, and she she she was okay being an advocate, 487 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: but what she really wanted to do was entertained and 488 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: that's kind of Sammy Davis Jr. And by the way, 489 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: Sammy Davis Jr. Went and launched it Selma. He was 490 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: on the march on Washington and I think Harry Belafonte 491 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: even said at one point, I don't understand why Sammy 492 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: Davis Jr. Doesn't get credit for that, and it's seen 493 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: as somebody who sort of shirked that, which he didn't. 494 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: But maybe it's because he was so first and foremost 495 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: an entertainer and loved doing that. There might be one answer. 496 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: It's referred to in the episode. I remember it in 497 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: my household growing up when he endorsed Richard Nixon, and 498 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: that maybe one reason. That was a moment from my 499 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,479 Speaker 1: Republican Paris right. I'm seriously it was. It was a 500 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: moment and they said, see Richard Nixon must be fine. 501 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: This this this amazing. We did not use the terminology 502 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: African American at the time, this amazing black American has 503 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: endorsed Richard Nixon. Good enough for Sammy, good enough for 504 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: us even Yeah, it was a moment. And you mentioned 505 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: in the episode that there was a little bit of hey, 506 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: what are you doing among white liberals and maybe some 507 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: in the civil rights community, you know, there was And 508 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: then he this great speech was a push conference. I 509 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: am who I am right, Yeah, I'm a black man 510 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: in American I've made a choice, right and and and 511 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: it was and I really loved talking to Willie Brown 512 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: about that, who is, by the way, just one of 513 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: the greatest interviews ever. So he talked about an individual 514 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: y mean and as sharp an observer and uh, he 515 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: has to pick up on something you said earlier, a 516 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: gut sense of politics that is very very good, very 517 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: very sharp, always has and he had sort of a 518 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: three sixty view of Sammy. He really did. And he 519 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: also really pushed back at the notion that Sammy might 520 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: have been deficient because he was so much about entertainment. 521 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: He was like, no, he's a great cook. He was, 522 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: you know, a film lover. He was a really sophisticated 523 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: guy and a great host. So it was I loved 524 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: hearing his perspective. So when we think about, because we're 525 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: going to be anticipating in a lot of different ways, 526 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: what should we think about, what can you set the 527 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: table at for coming up from obituaries in the second 528 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: part of season three, Well, I really wanted to tell 529 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: the story of Samantha Smith, whom you probably remember, but 530 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: an astonishing number of people have forgotten that. In this 531 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: young girl from Jane, she wasn't connected. She wrote a 532 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: letter like how many kids were kept awake at night 533 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: during the eighties and seventies. I'm sure terrified that the 534 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: world was going to be blown up, right, that the 535 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: Soviet Union in America would trade you know, I CBMs 536 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: and and uh and she wrote a letter to Eurie 537 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: drop LP and with that another teaser. At the top 538 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: of his game, Always at the top of his game, 539 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: I Major Garrett. That's Morocco. Stay tuned for segment four 540 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: because that's a great teaser. When we get back from 541 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: CBS News, this is the takeout with Major Garrett. Always 542 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: fantastic to be in New York City. Even better when 543 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: I get to sit down for meal with Morocca. So, Mo, 544 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: you were talking about a letter, Well, right, do you 545 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: remember towards the end of the Soviet Union, there were 546 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: like a succession of really scary ghoules at the top. Right, 547 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: it went, it went, the Supreme Soviet it went well, 548 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: it went Breshnev and drop Up in Chernienko, Right, those 549 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: are the three. I mean, Breshnev had been there a 550 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: long time. But but and drop Up was like like 551 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: particularly a caricature of a scary guy because he'd run 552 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: the KGB right and uh and um. And so this girl, 553 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: Samantha Smith wrote this letter saying, you know, why do 554 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: you want to blow up the world basically, and he 555 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: wrote her back. The letter was published in propta um 556 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: and said, you know, we don't want that, and um, 557 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: you know people all over the world are the same 558 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah, and come visit the Soviet Union. 559 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: And so she went, and CBS and News covered the 560 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: hell out of it. It was a very big deal. 561 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: But what I found, um in previous seasons of the 562 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: podcast is people under a certain age really not that 563 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: much younger than me, but had no clue. And one 564 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: of the producers said, no, you this, You've got to 565 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: do this episode because no one I'm telling you, no 566 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: millennials know this story at all, not only all of 567 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: that story, but have any sense of And you mentioned 568 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: this before we went to break and it might have 569 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: struck people. What the terror terror, the psychic heaviness that 570 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: came with the Cold War, And in the seventies and eighties, 571 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: almost once a month there was a story written about 572 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: the ever enlarging stockpiles of nuclear weapons and how many 573 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: times over one side or another could obliterate Planet Earth. 574 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: That was heavy, It was real, and it weighed on 575 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: you every single day. It weighed on you. And and 576 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: so when I hear about kids who have climate anxiety, 577 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: I take that seriously. When I hear that, like kids 578 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: have trouble sleeping because they're worried that the planet is 579 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: going to be destroyed, and um, you know that the 580 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: cities and places where they live will be submerged by 581 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: the oceans. And I thought that's what it was that 582 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: I can sort of felt existential. It felt existential. And 583 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: I had two fears at that time myself as an adolescent, 584 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: that the world would be destroyed by nuclear attack, and 585 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: that Broadway was just not economically viable as a model, 586 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: and that by the time I moved to New York, 587 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 1: there would be no you know, Broadway. So those two 588 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: things were the we're really weighing on me. Uh, Samantha 589 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: Smith did nothing for the Broadway community, I'm sure you know, 590 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: but thankfully it's still here, still here and going strong. 591 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: But but she did, she did something remarkable. And she 592 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: was a kid, an ordinary kid, and and the trip 593 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,280 Speaker 1: there was really interesting because she that was not easy 594 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: to comport herself the way she did, and so that 595 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: story has been really interesting to tell. So one of 596 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: the things that I find so enjoyable about obituaries is 597 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: not only is it a second look, but it's a 598 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: closer look at the first two lines of the original obituary, 599 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: if you will, Because everyone who who achieves some level 600 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: of notoriety, this is true, ladies and gentlemen, I've done it. 601 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: You wonder, all right, when I die, what's the first 602 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 1: or second line going to be about me? Anyone who 603 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: denies that is not being honest with themselves, and they're 604 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,879 Speaker 1: not being honest with you, Okay. And so you look 605 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: at that lead and you say, is that true? Yes? 606 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: But or did that completely miss it or miss it 607 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 1: by more than it should have? It seems to me 608 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: that's one of the exercises you go through in the process. Well, 609 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: I appreciate that because I hadn't thought of it in 610 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: those terms, but I'd like to think that that's what 611 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: we are doing with it. I hope so. Um, I 612 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 1: think you're right. It is interesting to see what that 613 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: little is it in a positive I forget what the 614 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,760 Speaker 1: grammatical term for it is. But you know, Joe Schmo 615 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: Calma died today, he was sixty eight or whatever. Exactly 616 00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,439 Speaker 1: exactly what is that thing that is the essence? Yeah, 617 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,439 Speaker 1: what is the contemporary essence of this person? Maybe right, 618 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: maybe incomplete, maybe more wrong than right. And it seems 619 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: to me that's one of the things you're trying to excavate. Yeah, 620 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: And and look that changes with I mean different eras, 621 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: because you know, a while back, when Jerry Jerry Lee 622 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: Lewis died, some of the the I could see that 623 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,959 Speaker 1: some of the o bits were balancing his legendary career 624 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: as a rock and roller with his personal life in 625 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,720 Speaker 1: trying to smush it in there. You know, in earlier 626 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: era would not have worried about the personal side. I'm 627 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: not saying one is right and one is wrong. What 628 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: is that is there? Oh, thank you so much. That's fine, 629 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: that's fine. Actually no, it's not. But it is a 630 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: break in the video action, which is which is what 631 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: when Midtown Manhattan it's a functioning, moving wine indulgent restaurants. 632 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: So that's great. This is not a rehearsal to say, 633 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: that's the kids saying right yeah, And it's not a 634 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 1: drill without they saying and it's uh an appraisal plus more. 635 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: And what do you find about the podcast space that 636 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: gives you that elbow room? Well, I think certainly the 637 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: space the time you know that you can take, which 638 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: I don't you know, I don't want to abuse that. 639 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes on streaming shows you think, well, you know, 640 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,240 Speaker 1: maybe it could have used a commercially a network exactly 641 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: telling you sorry, five episodes, not a yeah exactly, you know, 642 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: forty minutes, not seventy like you didn't need that, and 643 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: uh um. But I think there's there's a room for that. 644 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: I also think, you know, probably sometimes for intense interviews, 645 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: not you know, showing up with just a microphone, people 646 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: will open up a little bit of that question without question. 647 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: I think so. And one of the things that I 648 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: find and you will probably feel humble about this in 649 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: a way that I don't intend, like, oh, major, what 650 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: are you saying that for? You have convening authority, there 651 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: are people who will talk to you that enlarge this 652 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 1: project and these and these concepts. It feels to me, well, 653 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: I hope so, I mean, that's that is nice of 654 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: you to say that, and I hope so. I hope 655 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: as people listen to more episodes or or see interviews 656 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: that they like that I've done, um, that it will 657 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: make them more open to it. I know with you know, 658 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: with John Denver that there was a lot of protectiveness 659 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 1: around him and I thought, all right, you know, um, 660 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: but but who's who is the leading character of that episode? 661 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: His ex wife Annie? Yeah, and and that that had 662 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 1: to take some doing it did I think she needed 663 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 1: to know that this was not this was coming from 664 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 1: I know it sounds corny, but from a place of 665 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: love and it is it is which you know, Um, 666 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,319 Speaker 1: that's there. There's a way, you know, from a place 667 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: of love to get too to make discoveries. And in 668 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: the last minute or so, we have mode. It feels 669 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: also that one of the things you want to help 670 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 1: people understand is that there is an American story. It 671 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: has lots of characters, there are lots of complexities to it, 672 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: and we should spend some time with it. Yeah, um, yes, 673 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: uh and um yeah, and I want to tell more 674 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: of those stories. And well, I mean yeah, because I 675 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: really like America and I and think there are a 676 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: lot of great stories and there are a lot of 677 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: things to be happy and proud about, and uh, you know, 678 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: and and um there are a lot of heroes and 679 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: uh you know, I don't want it to be hokey 680 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: and um, but uh sure, I mean that. I hope 681 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: there are many more episodes that we can keep telling 682 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,760 Speaker 1: stories about people who overcame struggles and achieved great things 683 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: in part because they were here. So Jamie Benson, who 684 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,720 Speaker 1: was behind the camera with us this episode and running 685 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 1: audio and who was an integral part of article and 686 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: has been part of my success in the debrief in 687 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: the take out for the better part of six years, 688 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: had an idea and you latched onto it. So let's 689 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 1: roll with this a little basis major Why don't you 690 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: think of a possible mobituary? Can I suggest one? Please? 691 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:25,440 Speaker 1: Kurt Flood? Who's Kurt Flood? Beautiful? Beautiful beautiful. I'm already intrigued. 692 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: Kurt Flood played major League baseball. He played Major League 693 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: baseball for the St. Louis Cardinals. He was an All 694 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: Star outfielder African American. Kurt Flood went to federal court 695 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,400 Speaker 1: to challenge the reserve clause, which was something that existed 696 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 1: in Major League Baseball until Kurt Flood came along. What 697 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: was the reserve clause? It said, every Major League baseball 698 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: team reserved the right to keep you on their roster 699 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: until they changed their mind. You could never opt out 700 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: of your contract for the perpetuity of your major league career. 701 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: Kurt Flood said that disabled him and every other Major 702 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,320 Speaker 1: League baseball player from their rights to test their value 703 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: among other teams. Kurt Flood went to federal court one 704 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: his case and began the era of free agency. So 705 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 1: that's how we got free agency. I had no idea. 706 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: I had no idea. Well, I'm instantly drawn to it. 707 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: Also because I know how Cardinal fans are just so 708 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: fur fan and which makes the best baseball fans in 709 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 1: the country. I've been to many baseball games in St. Louis, 710 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: and they know the game. They are deeply appreciative and 711 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: Missouri has a complicated history in our country sure with 712 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 1: with race relations dating all the way back to to 713 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: pre Civil War times. Um, the dread Scott case originates 714 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,799 Speaker 1: in part in Missouri. Kurt Flood is an enormously important 715 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,720 Speaker 1: part of the American story and the assertion of rights 716 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: and the searching for rights. In a different context athletics, 717 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,959 Speaker 1: but was in enormously important to the game we see 718 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: before us today. That right, So that that's that's that's 719 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:10,279 Speaker 1: one suggestion. Um what else he got? We got a 720 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: lot of We got seasons to fill a more material Now, Uh, 721 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: this this can't happen yet because he's still with us. 722 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,919 Speaker 1: But when the day comes, and I hope it's not soon, 723 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: I believe Jerry Brown would deserve an examination for his 724 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: multi decade career in politics that has more twists and 725 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 1: turns than I think anyone comparable. Well, and also Jerry Brown, 726 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: I mean at one point he went and worked in 727 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: Calcutto with mother Teresa. I mean, he's had a really 728 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: contrascinating life, and he was this Roman candle in American 729 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:56,160 Speaker 1: politics early in his career, and he's very reflective about 730 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,319 Speaker 1: the mistakes he made and the Hubris that came with 731 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,880 Speaker 1: it then, And this is one of the things that 732 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 1: I'm drawn to, not ideologically, not because of party, but 733 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: because of I believe people who will stay in the 734 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 1: arena deserve appraisal. You're staying in the arena because it's 735 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: not easy to stay in the arena. He was very 736 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,800 Speaker 1: high and then he went back and became a mayor 737 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,359 Speaker 1: in a very tough stay to be in Oakland, way 738 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: up high, back down low, and then served and understood, 739 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,239 Speaker 1: and he learned more about being a good leader and 740 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 1: being a good deliverer of services to a community than 741 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,760 Speaker 1: he rose to attorney general. Then he became governor again 742 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 1: and ushered California into its sort of modern future. I 743 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,879 Speaker 1: just think he is someone who spands decades and isn't 744 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 1: rigid in any of those particular decades. And I love 745 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 1: that that he went from governor to being mayor and 746 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,880 Speaker 1: reminds me a little bit of John Quincy Adams going 747 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,400 Speaker 1: from president to a house rap and that being his 748 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,319 Speaker 1: happiest time actually as a house rap and uh um 749 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,919 Speaker 1: and uh and and didn't Jerry Brown dated deper Winger also, 750 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: so he's Linda Ronda Ronstad. Sorry, Bob Kerry dated deper 751 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 1: winger winger. I don't want to do that to different winger, 752 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 1: but anyway, everything dated, No, no, no, uh the uh 753 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: um yeah, Linda ron Stadt of course, but yeah, no, 754 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: he's what an interesting life. Well, we wish him well, 755 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,359 Speaker 1: We wish you well, Jerry absolutely absolutely. I'm not, yeah, 756 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 1: prematurizing that, if that's even a word, But I do 757 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 1: think there is something worth saying about Jerry Brown because 758 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,480 Speaker 1: he occupies the difference and and he is an embodiment 759 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,719 Speaker 1: of the seventies in a certain way, a caricature of 760 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,279 Speaker 1: that time. And you either stuck with that are you 761 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 1: mature it out of it? And I think that journey 762 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 1: is is interesting. Can you know how far we've fallen? 763 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,799 Speaker 1: I remember when he was in the primary against Phil 764 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: was the first presidential campaign I covered, Okay, and I 765 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: remember listening to W A. M U. I think it 766 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: was still called there and Diane Ream and somebody called 767 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 1: up and went, well, Governor Moonbeam, and then she went 768 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 1: and she went, we do not insult people on this show, 769 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,440 Speaker 1: and she made the caller apologize. And how far we 770 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: fall in because now everyone just insults each other all 771 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 1: the time. But then that was your authenticity to insult. 772 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,560 Speaker 1: I'm authentic and I don't insult. I'm Major Garrett Morocco. 773 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 1: What a pleasure, thanks man, and you're not. And I'm 774 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 1: eating anchovies and you're not insulting me. I mean because 775 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,440 Speaker 1: I'm not touching a mom, not today, not ever. That's it, 776 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: ladies and down. When we'll see you next week. The 777 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,520 Speaker 1: Takeout is produced by Arden Farie, Jamie Benson, Sarah Cook, 778 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:36,880 Speaker 1: Ellie Watson, Jake Rosen, and Ashley Armstrong. CBSN production by 779 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 1: Eric Susanin. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at 780 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:46,239 Speaker 1: Takeout Podcast. That's at Takeout podcast, and for more go 781 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,280 Speaker 1: to Takeout podcast dot com. The Takeout is a production 782 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:57,040 Speaker 1: of CBS News. I hope you enjoyed listening to this 783 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,360 Speaker 1: episode of The Takeout with Major Garrett, a weekly podcast 784 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 1: from CBS News. If you like what you heard, may 785 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,240 Speaker 1: I ask you to follow The take Out. Just like Mobituaries, 786 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 1: It's available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or altogether Now wherever 787 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. We'll be back next week with 788 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:19,400 Speaker 1: more new episodes from season three of Mobituaries.