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Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the

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Speaker 1: last twenty five years writing about true crime.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's

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Speaker 2: worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them.

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Speaker 1: Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most

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Speaker 1: compelling true crimes.

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Speaker 2: And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring

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Speaker 2: new insights to old mysteries.

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Speaker 1: Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime

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Speaker 1: cases through a twenty first century lens.

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Speaker 3: Some are solved and some are cold, very cold.

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Speaker 1: This is buried Bones.

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Speaker 3: Hey Paul, Hey Kate, how are you today?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing well. I wanted to ask you a question

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Speaker 1: because you know, you and I come from backgrounds where

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Speaker 1: sometimes people don't like us for what we do for

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Speaker 1: a living. Sometimes people don't like journalists, and sometimes people

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Speaker 1: don't like you know, a law enforcement even like the

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Speaker 1: forensic community. Do you think it has made you a

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Speaker 1: more cautious, paranoid anything like that, like too much over

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Speaker 1: the top. Do you feel like you look over your

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Speaker 1: shoulder every once in a while. Have you ever felt

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Speaker 1: like that in your career.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, for sure.

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Speaker 2: In fact, there's a couple of times in my career

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Speaker 2: in which I received death threats. What the very first time,

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Speaker 2: which is when I first started, I was just a

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Speaker 2: civilian toxicologist and I testified against a guy. I think

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Speaker 2: it was a manufacturing a drugs charge and he was

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Speaker 2: a bad guy.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: He ended up being sentenced and put in Pelican Bay

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Speaker 2: in California, which is, you know, for the hardest of

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Speaker 2: the hardened criminals out there. And then I get my

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Speaker 2: boss coming up to me handing me a form saying

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Speaker 2: you need to get DMV confidentiality because she had just

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Speaker 2: been notified that the guy had threatened to kill the

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Speaker 2: chemists that had testified against him. And I was like,

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Speaker 2: what what am I getting myself into here?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: And then I had an online sleuth type on Golden

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Speaker 2: State Killer kind of want to do me harm?

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Speaker 1: So over the Golden State Killer.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: And there's several other individuals out there that probably have

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Speaker 2: some mental health aspects going on that aren't fans of mine,

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Speaker 2: So you know, you do become a little bit more cautious,

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Speaker 2: a little bit more paranoid. Fortunately, especially towards the end

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Speaker 2: of my career, I had access to resources at the

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Speaker 2: federal level that could be deployed if there was a need.

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Speaker 1: Well that was very cryptic, and I know as men

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Speaker 1: as a scare tactic, but congratulations, I think you did it.

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Speaker 3: Let's see.

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Speaker 2: You know, there is a what do you want to

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Speaker 2: call it? There is possibility do sort of a whack

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Speaker 2: of moole aspect.

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Speaker 1: Okay, there you go. I tell my journalism students all

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Speaker 1: the time. You know, this is a fantastic profession to

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Speaker 1: be in, and you are doing so much good. If

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Speaker 1: you are a responsible journalist, a good person who wants

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Speaker 1: to do the right thing. They're in this business to

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Speaker 1: do the right thing. To inform the public. It is dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Oh you know, we are in the public and what

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Speaker 1: you've done is dangerous too. When you particularly when you're

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Speaker 1: dealing with other people's lives and their freedom and everything,

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Speaker 1: you are in the public eye and you run some

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Speaker 1: pretty big risks. And so I always say, you'll have

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Speaker 1: to really think about that. You know, this is something

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Speaker 1: that you want to do, because you're going to piss

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Speaker 1: people off generally in this business.

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Speaker 2: Now, you know, at any time when you're affecting somebody's emotions,

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Speaker 2: their livelihood, and sometimes it's just the receiver's perception of

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Speaker 2: who you are and what you're doing, particularly when it's

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Speaker 2: you know, kind of from afar. It does elevate the

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Speaker 2: risk just because you know, ninety nine percent of the

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Speaker 2: people out there are good people, but the one percent

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Speaker 2: out there is what you have to be concerned about,

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Speaker 2: and the point one percent are straight out dangerous. So

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Speaker 2: you know, it's just something that in these types of

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Speaker 2: professions you kind of have to accept that these are

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Speaker 2: the risks. It's sort of that risk versus reward aspect.

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Speaker 2: You know, pursue your passion, do what you love, but

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Speaker 2: getting into these fields you most certainly just be aware of,

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Speaker 2: you know, some of the aspects.

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Speaker 1: Well, the main person we're going to be talking about

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Speaker 1: in our episode today is an investigative journalist. He was

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Speaker 1: a reporter for the Arizona Republic. He was investigating had

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Speaker 1: been investigating for years corruption and organized crime in Arizona,

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Speaker 1: which sounds like a terrifying beat to be on. He

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Speaker 1: was really really good that I will say, just as

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Speaker 1: a preview, put him in some pretty dangerous situations. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, the murder weapon that we are going to

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Speaker 1: talk about has never been a weapon we've talked about before.

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Speaker 3: Oh interesting, I'm curious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Well let's go ahead and set the scene.

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Speaker 1: Nineteen seventy six. I was born two years earlier. I

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Speaker 1: was the prospery two year old when this story took place.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to do the math. How old were

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Speaker 1: you in seventy six?

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Speaker 2: I was eight years old. I was living outside of Washington,

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Speaker 2: d C. I can remember the bi centennial. Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: I distinctly remember nineteen seventy six.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm thrilled to be doing a story in which

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Speaker 1: I was born in this time period. I think that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing that we're going to the seventies. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: as I said, we are in Phoenix, Arizona. It's June second,

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Speaker 1: and the main person at the center of the story

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Speaker 1: is a guy named Don Bowles, and he's forty seven.

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Speaker 1: He's an investigative reporter for the Arizona Republic, great newspaper.

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Speaker 1: He is very hard working. He has lots of sources,

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Speaker 1: really deep sources for all kinds of corruption, mafia. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's really digging around for a lot of different bits

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Speaker 1: of information and I think that he is concerned that

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Speaker 1: he could possibly be in danger at some point, but

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Speaker 1: he's a long term reporter and people like that, the

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Speaker 1: investigative journalists, I know, they put their job above their

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Speaker 1: own safety. I mean clearly, if you are a reporter

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Speaker 1: who is digging into mafia ties and government corruption, you

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Speaker 1: know you are dealing with dangerous people. And he very

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Speaker 1: strong felt that this was his calling and he wanted

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Speaker 1: to help protect the people of Arizona and this was

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Speaker 1: his way to do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I've got to think there's got

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Speaker 2: to be for someone like him. In addition to you know,

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Speaker 2: the fear of the people you might be pissing off,

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Speaker 2: is there's an adrenaline rush as well, you know, and

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Speaker 2: I think that that's just part of that personality. Not

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Speaker 2: only is you know, the fact finding and informing the public,

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Speaker 2: but I think people who get into that line of

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Speaker 2: work truly enjoy, you know, sort of the discovery of

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Speaker 2: the information that somebody else is trying to suppress or

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Speaker 2: cover up or whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, what's interesting about Dawn And I don't know

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Speaker 1: if this was his age, if he got tired of

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Speaker 1: this beat or what, but he decided he wanted to

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Speaker 1: switch up concentrations. So very very recently he decided he

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Speaker 1: wanted to move to more day to day state politics.

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Speaker 1: There is in the state politics, and he actually had

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Speaker 1: a desk in the press room at the Arizona State Legislature.

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Speaker 1: I would think good move for Dawn because it keeps

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Speaker 1: him out of the crosshairs of danger. You would think

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Speaker 1: getting away from the organized crime and mafia aspect of

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Speaker 1: it kind of bad news for us because it's going

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Speaker 1: to open up his circle even wider, because he's now

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Speaker 1: covering all sorts of contentious subjects and people who you know,

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Speaker 1: are doing really lazy things, and his job is to

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Speaker 1: dig up the dirt.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, obviously something bad happens to don.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, unfortunately. So on June second, he leaves his desk

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Speaker 1: for a meeting with a source at the Hotel Clarendon

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Speaker 1: in downtown Phoenix. You know, he is a reliable guy.

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Speaker 1: He's married to a woman named Rosalie. It's the second

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Speaker 1: marriage for both of them. Between the two of them,

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Speaker 1: they have seven children, four from his previous marriage, two

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Speaker 1: from hers, and then they have one together. He's a

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Speaker 1: family man, seems to be a great guy. So eleven

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Speaker 1: fifteen am on this June second, he goes to the hotel.

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Speaker 1: He waits in the lobby for a little bit and

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Speaker 1: then a receptionist calls him to the front desk. He

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Speaker 1: talks on the phone to someone there for about two minutes.

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Speaker 1: She said I have no idea who he was talking to,

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Speaker 1: but that she could tell from his end of the

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Speaker 1: conversation that this meeting with the source was being postponed.

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Speaker 1: He told the other person on the line to just

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Speaker 1: come down to the State House. You know, he has

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Speaker 1: that desk at the State House, and that was it.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like it was a meeting involving his

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Speaker 1: politics beat, not his former mafia you know, corruption beat.

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Speaker 1: So now this timeline is important. He's in the hotel

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Speaker 1: for a total of fifteen minutes, so he's parked his car,

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Speaker 1: He goes to the hotel, he comes back out, he

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Speaker 1: gets back to his car, which is parked in the

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Speaker 1: hotel's parking lot. Now we took about witnesses to what's

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Speaker 1: about to happen. There's a guy named Lan Reid. He's

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Speaker 1: on a ladder and he's working on an HVAC system

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Speaker 1: in a neighborhood building at eleven thirty, so fifteen minutes

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Speaker 1: later from when Dawn had entered the hotel lawn. Here's

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Speaker 1: a massive explosion, and it is powerful enough to shake

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Speaker 1: the entire building he's working on in this HVAC system.

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Speaker 1: He climbs down from you know, whatever floor he's on.

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Speaker 1: He walks outside and he sees the direction the noise

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Speaker 1: came from a massive plume of white smoke. It's coming

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Speaker 1: from the parking lot of the hotel. He hears a

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Speaker 1: man screaming, and he and other workers start running. Now

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Speaker 1: I can pause, or I can tell you what more

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Speaker 1: I know. I told you we've never talked about this weapon.

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Speaker 1: We haven't had a car explosion before. I don't think, no,

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Speaker 1: we haven't.

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Speaker 3: I in my career did not have a bombing.

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Speaker 2: I reviewed a case that had happened in my jurisdiction

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Speaker 2: like a couple of years before I started, which was

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Speaker 2: a bombing a car, a vehicle bombing that resulted in

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Speaker 2: the death of an individual. And of course I've through

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Speaker 2: my friend pathology studies have seen what happens to the

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Speaker 2: human body as a result of bombings, including during the

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Speaker 2: early days post ninet eleven, attending some of the law

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Speaker 2: enforcement based training provided by the FEDS in terms of

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Speaker 2: the various bombings that had occurred across the world and

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Speaker 2: seeing the devastation that bombs can do to not only property,

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Speaker 2: but to the people that are impacted.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is very graphic what happens with Don. He unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: I will say, does not die immediately, and there are

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Speaker 1: some heroes in this story. What it sounds like happened

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Speaker 1: is he was just starting to pull his car out

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Speaker 1: from the parking space when part of it, the right

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Speaker 1: part under his seat, seemed to have exploded. I have

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Speaker 1: photos of the interior and exterior of the car. Don

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Speaker 1: is not in it. We don't see any of that.

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Speaker 1: I can so tell you what state Dawn was found

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Speaker 1: in and what they were trying to do to save him.

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Speaker 1: So do you want to see the photo? What do

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Speaker 1: you want to see? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I definitely want to see the photo. This

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Speaker 2: is the crime scene.

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Speaker 1: Some may if you need me to zoom in on

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Speaker 1: any of this.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm taking a look at the photo of

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Speaker 2: the driver's side of a light colored four door Sedan

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Speaker 2: vintage nineteen seventies.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is.

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Speaker 2: Looking very much like a dots in import vehicle. I

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Speaker 2: can't say it for sure if it's a dots and

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Speaker 2: from this photo and the driver's door is open, the

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Speaker 2: hood of the vehicle is slightly bent up.

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Speaker 3: But from this photo I can't really discern much more.

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Speaker 2: What I think what I am surprised by is I

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Speaker 2: was expecting the vehicle to be much more damaged externally

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Speaker 2: than what I'm seeing.

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Speaker 1: Let me show you a couple more angles, and then

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Speaker 1: there's an internal one.

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Speaker 2: So the top phot is showing basically that almost the

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Speaker 2: same view of the car from the driver's side, with

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Speaker 2: the driver's side door open, I can see three plane

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Speaker 2: closed investigators, one which is crouched down at the front

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Speaker 2: of the car by the front bumper with a device

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Speaker 2: that probably is a mirror on a handle, looking at

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Speaker 2: the undercarriage of the vehicle. There is some debris that's

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Speaker 2: on the ground on the driver side, and the hood

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Speaker 2: itself is showing I would almost call it like an

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Speaker 2: it's been uplifted from probably the blast internally, but it

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Speaker 2: still looks like it's engaged. It's not like it's flipped open.

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Speaker 2: Maybe the front driver's side tire might be flat, but

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Speaker 2: I can't tell from that photo. And then the bottom photo.

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Speaker 2: The car has obviously been transported. The previous two photos

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Speaker 2: were black and white. Now this photo is color, and

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Speaker 2: it appears that this car has been put I don't

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Speaker 2: know if that would be the investigating agency's impound yard

248
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Speaker 2: or if this is just a junk yard ank junk yard,

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Speaker 2: but it's showing the kind of the left front of

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Speaker 2: the car. So I can now see the front of

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Speaker 2: the car. I can almost make out that it's a

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Speaker 2: dots and but I'm not entirely sure about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's a dots and I say it. Here's

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Speaker 1: the big photo, I think now now right underneath him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now this is the critical photo. So now I'm

256
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Speaker 2: seeing a photo of the inside driver's front seat, shows

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Speaker 2: the steering wheel, the front dash. There is a massive

258
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Speaker 2: hole that is directly under where the front seat cushion

259
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Speaker 2: should have been, but that is completely gone in this photograph.

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Speaker 2: The floorboard itself has been blasted through with the edges,

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Speaker 2: showing that the force came from underneath the vehicle to

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Speaker 2: the inside of the vehicle. You know, there's been This

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Speaker 2: photo is showing that there has been processing of the vehicle.

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Speaker 2: So the kind of the dash components have been removed.

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Speaker 2: I can see where the various electrical sockets have been

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Speaker 2: individually unplugged, so this must have been that item must

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Speaker 2: have been collected during the processing of the vehicle. Obviously,

268
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Speaker 2: Don sitting in this seat with this explosion going off,

269
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Speaker 2: would have suffered immense lower body injuries, and that potentially

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Speaker 2: could account for why he survived for a period of time,

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Speaker 2: as the sea cushion itself would have received the initial

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Speaker 2: blunt of the blast, but that would not have prevented

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Speaker 2: Don from sustaining significant injuries from such a large blast.

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Speaker 2: You know, the percussive forces from an explosion can also

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Speaker 2: damage the internal organs. And you know, I would not

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Speaker 2: be surprised that not only were Don's legs and you know,

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Speaker 2: lower part of his body be you know, completely mangled,

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Speaker 2: if not somewhat severed from his body, but he may

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Speaker 2: have also suffered from various blast injuries to his upper

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Speaker 2: body and internal organs.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me tell you about the injuries. Because these workers,

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Speaker 1: including the man who you know initially heard the blast lawn,

283
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Speaker 1: are trying to save his life. They run over they

284
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Speaker 1: find him lying face down halfway out of the car

285
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Speaker 1: with extensive of course injuries. His legs are basically destroyed.

286
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Speaker 1: As you had predicted. Blond ties his bell around one

287
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 1: of Don's legs at the thigh sinching in as tight

288
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,359
Speaker 1: as he can to make a tourniquet. He yells for

289
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Speaker 1: someone else to give him another belt. He does the

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Speaker 1: same thing with Don's other leg. I mean, Don is

291
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,840
Speaker 1: gravely injured. There's blood spurting from his leg. Why this

292
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 1: is important that somebody responds this quickly to Don. Don dies,

293
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 1: We know that Lawn becomes a witness because Don is

294
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Speaker 1: trying to say some things before he dies. So he

295
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,600
Speaker 1: says a name, John Adamson. The firefighters in the emergency

296
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Speaker 1: personnel arrive at the scene within four minutes of the explosion,

297
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Speaker 1: and he's rushed to a nearby hospital. He's still conscious.

298
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Speaker 1: He keeps saying, over ago, over again, this name John Adamson.

299
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Speaker 1: And then emergency personnel hear him say that he's an

300
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter working on a mafia story. He repeats to

301
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Speaker 1: them the word mafia, and then he says the word

302
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 1: m prize E M p R. He's unconscious after that,

303
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,560
Speaker 1: and then that's it. The final words we're working with

304
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,880
Speaker 1: here are John Adamson in Mafia. An imprise sounds cryptic.

305
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,080
Speaker 1: Some of it is, And this is a man who

306
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,199
Speaker 1: is very much trying to tell people who might be

307
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Speaker 1: responsible for his murder.

308
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a dying declaration.

309
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so there's in some ways there's a

310
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:22,200
Speaker 2: level of veracity given to this type of statement because

311
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:28,159
Speaker 2: this person doesn't have jeopardy or consequences moving forward, so

312
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,240
Speaker 2: there's no reason to lie. So now, I mean, this

313
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,440
Speaker 2: is golden for the investigators. There's a name, the fact

314
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,919
Speaker 2: that it's associated with the mafia, which is, you know,

315
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 2: something they probably would have figured out just looking at

316
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:47,280
Speaker 2: the victimology of Don. But then this word emprise. I

317
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 2: don't know that word.

318
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Speaker 1: Some of this is confusing what he says, and you know,

319
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Speaker 1: and then part of it is Don doesn't know maybe

320
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Speaker 1: who did this. Yeah, a family friend picks up the

321
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,320
Speaker 1: youngest kids and brings them to the hospital, but the

322
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Speaker 1: police say get them out of here, and they're under

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Speaker 1: police protection from then on twenty four hour police protection,

324
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Speaker 1: which doesn't surprise you, I'm assuming considering this is does

325
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 1: this feel like a mob hit? I mean, is this

326
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Speaker 1: like a signature mob hit mafia?

327
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 3: Well, I think that you know, this is where obviously

328
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:18,920
Speaker 3: this is a.

329
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 2: Very unusual type of crime, but it does happen, and

330
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Speaker 2: it does happen without some sort of organized crime aspect

331
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Speaker 2: to it. This is where now it gets into, in part,

332
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,280
Speaker 2: the physical evidence investigation. You know, what is the level

333
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 2: of sophistication of this bomb. Obviously nineteen seventy six, most

334
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,640
Speaker 2: certainly using radio triggers, there could have been a remote

335
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 2: detonation of this bomb once the offender saw that Don

336
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 2: was in fact in the car, but most likely this

337
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 2: bomb was placed after Don went into the hotel. It

338
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,919
Speaker 2: was only in the hotel for fifteen minutes. They linked

339
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 2: it to the electrical system for when Don started the vehicle.

340
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,359
Speaker 2: Now there's the electrical signal that is triggering the detonation

341
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,919
Speaker 2: of this this bomb. What's the chemistry of the bomb?

342
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,399
Speaker 2: You know, what are the components of the bomb? Is

343
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 2: this looking like something that is showing a level sophistication

344
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:25,119
Speaker 2: where now you're dealing with a highly sophisticated, knowledgeable bomb

345
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 2: making individual. Does it look like it could be state sponsored?

346
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 2: Does it look like it's juvenile? You know, is this

347
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,360
Speaker 2: merely a pipe bomb that they were able to put

348
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,919
Speaker 2: an electrical detonation device on and they bought all the

349
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,360
Speaker 2: components from a hardware store, you know. So that's that's

350
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 2: all part of the assessment of who the offender might be,

351
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 2: and that's through the crime scene evidence.

352
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:55,959
Speaker 1: Well, let me get to the bomb part. I'm going

353
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,360
Speaker 1: to skip down because you just asked about the device

354
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: and I was wondering how professional this setup is because

355
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,880
Speaker 1: I am clueless. So this is what they said. So

356
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 1: the first law enforcement officers on the scene are from

357
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,679
Speaker 1: the bomb and arson unit, not the homicide investigators, so

358
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 1: they are assessing, which is well, I mean, but that's good, right,

359
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 1: because there's nobody there to muck up the bomb scene.

360
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 2: No homicide investigators are staying two hundred yards away from

361
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 2: this until your bomb guys clear it. There's no way

362
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 2: in hell, as an investigator, you're going anywhere near this.

363
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 2: You know, some of the tactics of bombers, and we

364
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 2: see this, you know over in the terrorist organizations, is

365
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 2: they will have a bombing and then all the first

366
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 2: responders respond, and then they have a second bombing to

367
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 2: kill all the first responders. So the proper way to

368
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 2: handle this type of thing is to get your bomb

369
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 2: arson guys to clear this scene, and they're trained to

370
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 2: be able to do that without contaminating the homicide evidence

371
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: side aspect too much.

372
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: Well, the way that this all unfolds, you know, is

373
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 1: so mysterious. It's to me very cloak and dagger. But

374
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: let me tell you about this device. Okay, So the

375
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,239
Speaker 1: bomb and arson guys get there, and this is what

376
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: they figure out. The bomb under the driver's side of

377
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 1: Don's door had been made with six sticks of dynamite,

378
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: and you're right, it had a remote control. It was

379
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 1: attached to the bottom of the car under the driver's

380
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 1: seat with a magnet. Now, they miscalculated Don was six

381
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,959
Speaker 1: foot two, and so I don't think they realized that

382
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 1: he pushed his seat back, so they made an estimation

383
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: of where he would be sitting. That's why he put

384
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: his seat back or his seat was back, and they

385
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: didn't know this, I guess. And they figured out that

386
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: this is why it hit his legs more than anything else.

387
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 1: Had he been more forward, he would have been killed instantly,

388
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: is what they're saying. So I don't see an assessment

389
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: of whether or not this is considered professional. Six sticks

390
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 1: of dynamite with a remote control in the seven What

391
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: do you think about that? Does that signal anything to you?

392
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 2: That's showing a level of sophistication in my estimation. Now,

393
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 2: the positioning of the bomb underneath on you know, the

394
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: offender not taking into account his height or the exact

395
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: position of a seat. I don't think that that's a

396
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 2: factor at all. They're attaching this bomb using a magnet.

397
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 2: You think about being underneath the vehicle, You're just kind

398
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 2: of going with six sticks of dynamite. I just need

399
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 2: to get this under the driver's side and this is

400
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 2: going to kill Dawn. Now, you know, with the forces

401
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 2: of the blast, there's so many just weird things that

402
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: happen under these extreme weird.

403
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 3: Phenomena, you know.

404
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: So the idea that if he had just been six

405
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 2: inches fourd that this would have just absolutely devastated his

406
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 2: upper body, Well, no, you have this intervening object of

407
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 2: the seat cushion, you have the floorboard, you possibly have

408
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 2: cross members underneath the vehicle, and this is all deflecting

409
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 2: and having all sorts of weird aspects to these forces.

410
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: The offender is just going, I'm placing these six sticks

411
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 2: of dynamite underneath the driver's side door, and I am

412
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 2: confident this will kill down. And now the offender, whether

413
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: it's the bomb maker, slash bomb placer, or it's a triggerer,

414
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 2: you know, somebody who's you know, we don't know what

415
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 2: kind of conspiracy we're dealing with, but now you have

416
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 2: somebody who has a vantage point to be able to

417
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,719
Speaker 2: know when Don is in that vehicle in order to

418
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: do the remote controlled detonation. You know, this is showing

419
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: this is not most certainly you could you could have

420
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 2: some very intelligent, criminally minded teenagers that might be able

421
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 2: to pull this type of thing off, but we don't

422
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 2: generally see that. You know, they they're the ones that

423
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: use the little pipe bomb stuff. This is to me

424
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 2: telling me, okay, you know there is a level of

425
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 2: expertise and sophistication. I can't say to what point yet,

426
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 2: you know, but it's something that's like I am a

427
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 2: little bit concerned about who might be behind this.

428
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: Well, I want to tell you about Don's most active investigations.

429
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: We know he's been digging into mafia, corruption, government stuff

430
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: for years, but remember he's on this political beat. So

431
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: this is what they figure out happened with Don. The

432
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 1: day that this happened Now I will say Don lived

433
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: for a while, several days, and he was trying his

434
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: best to give information. He does end up dying, but

435
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: he is able to confirm some things. I mean, he

436
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: really wanted to help figure this out, and I'm sure

437
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: he didn't have any illusions that he was going to

438
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 1: survive this. It must have been a tremendous amount of

439
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: pain that he was in. So this is what happens.

440
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: That morning. He had gone to the state Legislature to

441
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: cover a Senate session on that morning before his appointment

442
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 1: with this source at the hotel. Before he left, he

443
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,719
Speaker 1: jotted down a note on a colleague's typewriter, and it

444
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: was a reporter named Bernie Wynn. So Bernie turns this

445
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: over to the police, and the note says, I've gone

446
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: to meet that guy with the information on Steiger at

447
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: the Clarendon House. Then to Sigma Delta Kai back about

448
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: one thirty bulls. So Steiger is referring to Congressman Sam Steiger.

449
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: So Sigma Delta Chi refers to a luncheon held by

450
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: the legal branch of the Society of Professional Journalists, which

451
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: is held at the Phoenix Press Club. What Dawn had

452
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: said was that this source that he was meeting was

453
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: a sleazy bastard, as he said, from San Diego, who

454
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: had told him about a tip about a dirty land

455
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: deal involving this Congressman Steiger, and the first contact had

456
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 1: happened about a week before, on May twenty seventh, right

457
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: before Memorial Day weekend, and that person had also implicated

458
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,360
Speaker 1: Senator Barry Goldwater, who was the sixty four Republican presidential nominee,

459
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: and another politician named Harry Rosenwig. So now it starts

460
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: to feel a little bit like a political cover up

461
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: if these are connected. Dawn had said, I'm not I

462
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm that interested in this. I was

463
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: going to turn it over to the paper City desk,

464
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: but he wasn't sure anything was going to come of it. Ultimately,

465
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: it sounds like he decided to go ahead and meet

466
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: this source anyway, even though he's like, I don't know

467
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: if this is the right story for me. On his

468
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: own desk, he had written a note that said John

469
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: Adamson Lobby at eleven fifteen Clarendon House fourth in Clarendon.

470
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: And we don't know if he left this for somebody

471
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 1: else or if this was a note and he didn't

472
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: take it with him. But John Adamson never shows up,

473
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: he never makes contact with him, and then he's in

474
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: this car explosion. So that is his day. He's looking

475
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: into political corruption, a dirty land deal involving a congressman,

476
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: and you know, he ends up in this terrible, terrible

477
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: accident slash murder scene.

478
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's interesting thoughts an investigation I was doing

479
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 2: out in Stockton related to Golden State killer. I had

480
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: a dirty developer, this Eckhart Schmidts, who was a child

481
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 2: molester who had a connection to Barry Goldwater and the

482
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: land based aspects. Not saying that mister Goldwater had any

483
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: criminal aspects going on, but when you said that Barry

484
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 2: Goldwater had some sort of connection with this Steiger and

485
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 2: a bad land deal or a dirty land deal, that

486
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: just was like, you know, bells are going off in

487
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: my head, you know, and that seems like that would

488
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: be kind of an interesting topic to dig down into

489
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: in the future. Now, the question I have it sounds

490
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: like this John Adamson, or the observation I have is

491
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: it sounds like this John Adamson. Is this source at

492
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: least Dawn thinks John Adamson is a source. So now

493
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 2: is Adamson legitimately a source and just coincidentally, you know,

494
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: backed out of the meeting at the hotel. Or was

495
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: John Adamson sort of the loure and had been hired

496
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: to bring Don out to this hotel right now? Don't know,

497
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 2: it could be it could be either way. But obviously

498
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: you have to identify John Adamson and go talk to

499
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: this guy.

500
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: Well, luckily police do. He is in San Diego, he

501
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: is well known to the police. He's considered a low

502
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: level street hoodlum, and they find him eventually in Lake Havasu,

503
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: which is about two hundred miles away from Phoenix. So

504
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: it doesn't look like John Adamson was actually ever present

505
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: at the hotel lobby when he was supposed to meet Don.

506
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: But when they show a picture of John Adamson to Don,

507
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: you know, Don says, yeah, this is the person I've

508
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: been talking about. Now, I don't know how he knows

509
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: what this guy looks like. He is confirming that this

510
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: is who he thinks that he's supposed to be meeting.

511
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: So two days after the bombing, Don is still fighting

512
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: for his life and the police speak with a lawyer

513
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: named Neil Roberts. There are a lot of names in

514
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: this story, now, Paul, because this this is a big

515
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: conspiracy at this point, yea. You know, now we're talking

516
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: about deep government stuff and lawyers, sleazy lawyers, no less.

517
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: So Neil Roberts says that he was with John Adamson

518
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: at the time of the bombing, so alibying him. Police

519
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: are also tracking down John Adamson, like I said before,

520
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: and he comes back to Phoenix, and it sounds like

521
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,239
Speaker 1: Neil Roberts actually bought the plane tickets for him to

522
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: come to Phoenix to talk to the police. So then

523
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: this helpful, we think. Attorney Neil Roberts not only says listen,

524
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: you know, John Adamson had nothing to do with this.

525
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: He was with me. Here he is, I'm bringing him

526
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: to you. He's leading police to two more guys. One

527
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: is a real estate developer named Max Dunlop and the

528
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: other one is a man named Kemper Marley. So they

529
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: are linked to the dog racing industry. To me, what

530
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: Neil Roberts sounds like is an attorney for corrupt people,

531
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: for reputable people, is what it sounds like to me.

532
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: So I can continue talking about this more or you

533
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: can comment, But clearly Don has been getting into all

534
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: different kinds of investigative roots here that are leading him.

535
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: He reports on the dog racing industry also.

536
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: Well you know, the dog racing is gambling, and this

537
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: of course, you know, has probably mafia associations all over it, right,

538
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: especially during this era. This Neil Roberts, you know, is

539
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: he is he an attorney for the mob?

540
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 3: You know?

541
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 2: Is there anything along those lines or is he is

542
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 2: he just an attorney? I forget what you said. Was

543
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: he an attorney for Steiger?

544
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: He's an attorney who was I don't know if he's

545
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: directly representing John Adamson, the hoodlum guy who's supposed to

546
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: be the source, right, but he's definitely facilitating him talking

547
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: to the police. And then he's pointing out these two

548
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: other men. And then I can kind of get to

549
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: where we're going with because imprize comes into play at

550
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: this point. This is a deep story. I mean, this

551
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: is not your typical murder story here. This is a

552
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: journalist who was digging into some places where people thought

553
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: he needed to stay out of it.

554
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: Well, if this John Adamson is a just your typical

555
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: street level thug.

556
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: You know how and why is.

557
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: What sounds like a fairly highly priced attorney, this Neil

558
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: Roberts representing him. Somebody is paying Neil Roberts to represent

559
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 2: John Adamson.

560
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: Well, let me keep We'll keep digging and see what

561
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: we can come up with. So Dawn Bowles has some

562
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: notes that are discovered, and reporters look at these notes

563
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: and figure out that people in the racing industry would

564
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: have been really pissed off about this, the dog racing

565
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: industry that he was really digging in on another story.

566
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: So it doesn't sound like he's going completely you know,

567
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: boring state legislature stuff. He's still staying within corruption. He

568
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: used that phrase. Remember the weird one we talked about Imprise,

569
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: which is the it turns out of a gambling operation,

570
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: dog racing gambling operation based in New York, but it's

571
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: nationally known. It's still in business, actually under a different name.

572
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: One thing that is confounding is that there doesn't seem

573
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: to be a link between you know, this guy Kemper

574
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: who I had mentioned, Keimper Marley, who is linked to

575
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: the dog racing industry and this Imprise. So he's mentioning Imprise.

576
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: It looks like this sleazy attorney is pointing to, well,

577
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: you should really look at these guys who are involved

578
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: in the dog racing industry. But it doesn't look like

579
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: Don is reporting on these particular people. So it's almost

580
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: like this jigsaw puzzle that's been thrown up in the

581
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: air and there's answers here somewhere, but nobody's been able

582
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: to put it together just yet.

583
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: Well, Don, over the course of his career, probably has

584
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: made many enemies. However, his dying declaration seems to be

585
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 2: focusing in on this aspect of why he thinks he

586
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 2: was targeted to be killed, and so I think there

587
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: has to be a lot of weight put on Imprise.

588
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: And then what Don was discovering about Imprise? Now, was

589
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 2: he focusing in on any particular individual or was he

590
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 2: focusing in on aspects of Emprize that could have potentially

591
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: shut down aspects of its operation that would have financially

592
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: hurt people and now they are protecting their livelihood. You know,

593
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: that could kind of open up the suspect pool a

594
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 2: little bit. But right now we have John Adamson, Mafia

595
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 2: and Imprise, So at least investigators can kind of, you know,

596
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: put their resources down that path to see where it leads.

597
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: Well, what they're figuring out is they're trying to make

598
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: that connection between Imprise and the mafia, and they figure

599
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: out that the company is trying to conceal an ownership

600
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,439
Speaker 1: of a hotel that would result in like a big

601
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: restructuring within this company and would reveal that Imprized have

602
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 1: ties to the mafia. So all of this is wrapped

603
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 1: up in and around this attorney, Neil Roberts, who now

604
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: seems to be representing John Adamson. So you know, Neil

605
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: Roberts is not doing this out of the goodness of

606
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: his heart. You know, John Adamson is tracked down and

607
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 1: might not have ever been tracked down had number one

608
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: Don not left that note. And number two of course

609
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: he said that name. So you know this was all

610
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: Don solving his own murder here. So Neil says the attorney,

611
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: He says, listen, John Adamson, Yes he was in Phoenix.

612
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: Yes he was with me. Yes we were five minutes

613
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: from the hotel where Don was murdered. But we were

614
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: together the whole time for that fifteen minutes leading up

615
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: to it. There's a discrepancy and police are able to

616
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: prove that. They can't say we were definitely where we

617
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: said what we were. There's evidence that if these two

618
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: people were involved with the bombing, that they were able

619
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: to But then, you know, what I had thought was, well,

620
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: why don't they could have planted it the day before

621
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: or days before? It's a remote control right, I mean,

622
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: this is not something that had to happen that day,

623
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 1: is it but held by a magnet? I don't know, well.

624
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: Right now, I think it's it's hard to assess why

625
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: that day that time, And I think I go back

626
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: to was John Adamson just a lure, you know, in

627
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 2: order to be able to get down to this hotel

628
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: and there must have been confidence that his vehicle would

629
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 2: be accessible in order to plant the bomb. If that

630
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: was the case, you know part of this and I

631
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 2: don't know if you have any information on this, but

632
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 2: you know, going back to the physical evidence in the case.

633
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 2: Oftentimes with bombings the like this remote control device, depending

634
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 2: on what it is, but sometimes you have the components

635
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 2: even through this explosion, that survive and the investigators are

636
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 2: able to recover like serial numbers and trace them back

637
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 2: to where you know, where this device will is purchase

638
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 2: from Layton. Prints can survive explosions, and so sometimes you

639
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: can get the bomber's fingerprints, you know, off of you know,

640
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: the various components or fragments, you know. So that's part

641
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 2: of what I'm wondering is is do they have any

642
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 2: further forensic evidence, you know, that can also point to,

643
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 2: you know, who the bomb maker possibly was.

644
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: Well, they do not seem to have forensic evidence that

645
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: that can you help us with the bomb maker.

646
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 3: Okay.

647
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: What they do though, is they are lucky that it

648
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: looks like the main player here is not particularly smart.

649
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: So this is what ends up happening so far, so

650
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: there's no reliable alibi. This leezy lawyer cannot be trusted,

651
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: and John Adamson is on the hot seat because they

652
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: go ahead and search his apartment, the apartments in San Diego.

653
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: They find, i mean, magnets, firecrackers, electric wire tape, and

654
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: a copy of the Anarchists Cookbook, which I mean, I mean,

655
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: you know, which includes instructions on how to make bombs.

656
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: Have you ever looked at that? I've never looked at

657
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: it before. I've read about it in many stories, but

658
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: I've never looked at it. Actually, I've read it, Okay,

659
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: you find it valuable?

660
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely, you know I had a hard copy,

661
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: or I should say my Sheriff's office lab library had

662
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 2: a hard copy of that. And you believe it or not,

663
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 2: the same publisher has a book that's titled, in essence,

664
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 2: how to Become.

665
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 3: A Professional Hitman.

666
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 2: So you know, these are people that are putting out,

667
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: you know, how to commit crimes. And the Anarchist Cookbook

668
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 2: has legitimate aspects to it. Now, some of it probably

669
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 2: isn't as accurate as others, but I would not be surprised.

670
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 2: Like if this John Adamson wanted to learn how to

671
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: do a bomb, yeah, he could have turned to such

672
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: a publication.

673
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 1: This will come down to once we start really thinking

674
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: about John Adamson. This is really going to come down

675
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: to what we think of Don's last words, what you

676
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: called the dying declaration that he made. Okay, so let

677
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: me tell you more. We have this evidence against John Adamson,

678
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: and as soon as Don dies, which unfortunately happens. Let's see,

679
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: the explosion happened on the second and he died on

680
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: the thirteenth, So the amount of pain he must have

681
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: gone through. So that's eleven days. He dies in the

682
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: hospital and they arrest him. They arrest Adamson for murder

683
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: a few hours later, so there is a preliminary hearing

684
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: to determine whether he can be tried. That prosecutors call witness.

685
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,399
Speaker 1: This is an associate of Adamson's named Robert Lettier, and

686
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: they're connected through this greyhound racing industry. So Robert flips

687
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: and says that five days before the bombing, he and

688
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: Adamson were driving around and they went to the Arizona

689
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: Republic offices to look for Don's car. They didn't find it.

690
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: Adamson said something, well, I couldn't do anything here anyway,

691
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: That's what he says. And then they went to a

692
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: dots and I mean, god, this guy. They go to

693
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: a dots and dealership and Adamson looks underneath a Dotson

694
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: that's similar to the one that Don drove and ultimately

695
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,919
Speaker 1: the one that he was fatally injured in. So this

696
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: is pretty good testimony, I'm assuming. I mean, he is saying,

697
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 1: let me give you one more line, Paul. On the drive,

698
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: Adamson alluded to an upcoming job and asked for help

699
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: following the target around. He said he'd be getting twenty

700
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars, and he promised Robert to cut up

701
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars, but Robert said, no, he does not

702
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: say I'm going to kill this guy. He's just saying

703
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to just kind of follow him around. There's

704
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: a job coming up. But he's doing all of this stuff.

705
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: This does not sound like a smart mafia guy to me.

706
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 3: He's a street level thug that's been hired. Yeah, the

707
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 3: question is is who hired him? Now?

708
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 2: Is it somebody connected to the mob, is it, you know,

709
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: somebody else. If Adamson is offering or saying he's getting

710
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 2: twenty five thousand dollars, I mean, this is a pretty

711
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: decent paycheck for somebody like him, you know. So you

712
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 2: have somebody that's hiring him, that has money and has

713
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: an interest in shutting Don down, you know. So that's

714
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: that's the thrust of the investigation. Needs to figure out

715
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: who that is. I mean, Adamson may be the yeah,

716
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 2: the actual bomb maker and placing the bomb, but you

717
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: still need to go after the people who employed Adamson

718
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: to do this homicide.

719
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: Well, just so you know, twenty five and seventy four

720
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: is about one hundred and forty thousand. Now, so that

721
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,479
Speaker 1: is not insignificant. I mean real coniflation, I mean real

722
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: So well, yeah, that's not insignificant. And he was offering

723
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: this guy, Robert almost half of that and Robert it down.

724
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: So we've got a couple of other witnesses before we

725
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: get to who might have been responsible. Here there's a

726
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: woman named Gail Owens. She dated John Adamson. She says, idiot,

727
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,919
Speaker 1: he took her to go buy remote control the kind

728
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,720
Speaker 1: that fly model I mean, why is he taking people?

729
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 1: He's getting a remote control that flies model airplanes and

730
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 1: he's just like taking friends along with him.

731
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it just speaks to his lack of sophistication,

732
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 2: you know, on that front. But he is doing it

733
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: in a way, you know, as I talked about earlier

734
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: about assessing the bomb itself. You know, he is getting

735
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 2: the instructions from somebody within that anarchist cookbook that is

736
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 2: very sophisticated, you know, so you at least have him

737
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 2: being able to follow instructions. But how many times has

738
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: he done a bombing in the past, how many times

739
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 2: has he committed a homicide in the past.

740
00:42:58,719 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: Probably he had.

741
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 2: You know, he's probably not a professional hit man, but

742
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 2: he's somebody that for money, is willing to commit this

743
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 2: type of crime. But he's not covering his tracks very

744
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: well at all.

745
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: No, he's not. And you know, this case goes on

746
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: and drags on and on and on until nineteen seventy seven.

747
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: He ends up ultimately pleading guilty and in the process

748
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: prosecutors say, who are you working for? He says, this

749
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: guy Max Dunlap, who is a real estate developer, who

750
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: is close to this guy Kimper Marley, who's in the

751
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: racing industry. Down had reported on Kimber Marley in the

752
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: racing industry. Right, so this seems to tie up some

753
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,919
Speaker 1: things for investigators. This seems right. Dunlap is charged with

754
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: Don's murder. He's found guilty. The issue is is that

755
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: and that I think is an interesting point is Dunlap's

756
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: family says, listen, you know, yes he's this leazy real

757
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: estate developer, and yes he's connected to a guy who

758
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: Don reported on because of the dog racing industry, but

759
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: he's not connected to Imprise. And Don was pretty specific

760
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: about what he was saying. So they think his family

761
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 1: of course, this is his family. But Max Dunlap's family

762
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: says we think he's actually been set up by other

763
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: figures in the Arizona underworld. Adamson says that I can

764
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: tell you who the person who hit the remote control was.

765
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: It's this guy named James Robinson. I mean, I told

766
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: you there's a million people. James Robison. He said. Robison

767
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: was the one who watched Don as he exited the

768
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: hotel and triggered the bomb when he got into the car.

769
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: There's not enough evidence against Robeson and he's acquitted, but

770
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: you know, there's just a lot that Dunlap's family and

771
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: other people were saying. Those last words of him. Mafia

772
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense with Max Dunlap, and neither does Imprise

773
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 1: because neither of those guys have dealings with Imprise. So

774
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: how much do we rely on on what Don is saying?

775
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: Does he even know what's happening? You know, when his

776
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 1: legs are blown off essentially and he's bleeding out.

777
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 2: Well, what we can say is Don knew what he

778
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 2: was looking into, and he knew that it probably was

779
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: a risky venture as an investigative journalist to start digging in.

780
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: He probably is making a guess as to why he

781
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 2: was targeted, and it's his most recent venture, you know,

782
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: and he's giving a specific name, John Adamson, who obviously

783
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 2: is the bomb maker the idea of mafia and imprized.

784
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 2: Don must have had some knowledge that was going to

785
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 2: really disrupt this imprize aspect, you know, whatever that would

786
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,839
Speaker 2: have been. So in some ways, you know, I can

787
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 2: see where the Dunlap family is going on. Hold on,

788
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 2: you know, at least with what what Don is saying.

789
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 2: The victim is saying. That doesn't add up with with

790
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 2: Max Dunlap, you know. And and when you get into

791
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 2: these types of corrupt and organized crime aspects, you know,

792
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 2: this is where things The higher up you go, the

793
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 2: more murky it gets, right, And this is where the FBI.

794
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 2: I mean that they are good at pursuing these types

795
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 2: of investigations, but they've also got decades of understanding the

796
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 2: structures and who are the shot callers and you know,

797
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: who has interest in let's say this mprice. You know,

798
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 2: my perspective would be, you know, there's just no way

799
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 2: with you and I talking to sort out this type

800
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 2: of you know, who really was the one that called

801
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,439
Speaker 2: the shot here there's just no way, right. But that's

802
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 2: where you know, the FEDS, that's their area of expertise,

803
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 2: you know, and so that's where like, if if I

804
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 2: were involved in a case like this at the local level,

805
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 2: it's you know, automatically, you need to get the FEDS involved. Yeah,

806
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 2: even if it's just an isolated local jurisdiction crime, you

807
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 2: need the people who know how to handle the investigation.

808
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 2: It's just like if if there's a homicide on federal land,

809
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: you need to get a local homicide investigator involved, because

810
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 2: they actually investigate homicides. The FEDS don't for the most part,

811
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 2: you know. So there is recognizing where the expertise and

812
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 2: experience lies, and that's in this type of scenario, that's

813
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 2: what the FEDS.

814
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 1: Well, to wrap this up, we are going to go

815
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: back to the sleazy attorney, Neil Roberts. Neil Roberts is

816
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 1: connected to everyone in this story, every suspect imprize. He's

817
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: represented people within that company. He is the one I

818
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: think you remember who pointed to Dunlap to begin with.

819
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 1: In the racing industry. He apparently paid for Adamson's defense.

820
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: It seems like I think it sounds like that Neil

821
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: Roberts was the middleman here between his client, whoever his

822
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: clients are, and Adamson, who is the muscle in all

823
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: of this, and that bastard Neil Roberts was given immunity

824
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,439
Speaker 1: from being charged as an accessory after the fact, even

825
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: though it turns out there were a couple of convictions

826
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: out of this and that was basically it, and we

827
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 1: don't even know if these were the right convictions aside

828
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: from Adamson.

829
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: So my thought is, with this level of organized crime

830
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 2: that appears to be involved, Mprize has a nationwide footprint

831
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 2: and appears to have a connection back to New York,

832
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 2: I can't imagine that an arm of this organized crime entity,

833
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 2: maybe it's mafia, would commit a homicide like this without

834
00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 2: somebody from way up authorizing it because they want fly

835
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 2: under the radar, because you know, a bombing of an

836
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 2: investigative journalist is going to bring a lot of attention

837
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 2: from law enforcement as well as media, and people in

838
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 2: the mafia don't want that. So whatever Don was digging

839
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: into must have been serious enough to wear a very

840
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,240
Speaker 2: high up shot caller, likely out of New York said

841
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 2: take him out.

842
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: But why hire an idiot? Like John Adamson, some street

843
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 1: hood from San Diego. Why not get somebody more experienced,

844
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: you know, well, this is where they are they're employing.

845
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: In some ways, this is like your plausible deniability. There

846
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:43,760
Speaker 1: are so many layers from the people that are saying

847
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 1: take down out to whoever's hiring Adamson, that there's never

848
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: going to be You're never ever going to be able

849
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 1: to connect all those dots. And so now Adamson, who

850
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: doesn't appear to be mafia associated, he's not a made guy,

851
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 1: you know. So he's the one that is tasked with it,

852
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 1: and they're paying him good money, right one hundred and

853
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: forty thousand dollars in today's money, in order to do this.

854
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: There is a risk, I mean where he can flip

855
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: and say well I was hired by so and so

856
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 1: of course, but they've shielded themselves because there's probably several

857
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: steps of intermediaries in which there isn't going to be

858
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: that obvious connection that can that law enforcement can trace

859
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: back all the way to the top. And then I

860
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 1: was thinking, well, why would John Adamson turn on Dune

861
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: Lap unless it was done lap? But obviously Adamson, if

862
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: he's going to flip. It's not going to be on

863
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: the real estate developer that probably doesn't have any serious ties.

864
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: He's not going to flip on Mprize, which clearly has

865
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 1: lots of ties and would have him murdered in prison.

866
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: So now, at as we conclude this, does it sound

867
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: more and more like you that maybe Max Dunlap is

868
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: not responsible for this and it's just much deeper than that.

869
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my guess, and that's all I can all

870
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 2: I can give. Adamson pled guilty.

871
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, he pled guilty, and that's when he flipped and

872
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: said it was done lab Okay.

873
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 2: So again I'm just speculating here, But if you have

874
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: an entity like New York based mafia that's calling the shots,

875
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 2: and this Neil Robertson is an attorney, you could see

876
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 2: where now there's communication to Adamson going keep your mouth shut,

877
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: point fingers at Max Dunlap. You'll serve X amount of

878
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 2: time and there could be threats both either to him

879
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:33,280
Speaker 2: or to his family.

880
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 3: However, it's like when.

881
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 2: You get out, you will be rewarded with X amount

882
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 2: of money, something like that. You got twenty five grand

883
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 2: up front. When you get out, we'll give you two

884
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 2: hundred grand just stay quiet and do what we say.

885
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: So I would not be surprised that there's some sort

886
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 2: of arrangement like that with Adamson.

887
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: Well, you have an investigative journal I mean, just to

888
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: wrap this up, you have an investigative journalist who is

889
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: doing so much overtime work to try to make people's

890
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: lives safer and better. He has put himself in danger

891
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: and it has happened, you know, statistically, something unfortunately would

892
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: have happened to him at some point. Boy, I mean,

893
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: when you're poking enough people out there, we need journalists

894
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: like that who will help protect us. That's part of

895
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: our job as journalists. You know, you're going and you're

896
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 1: putting yourself out there, just like people in law enforcement.

897
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: You're putting yourself out there knowing that you can get hurt.

898
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: And don did. And now we have like a big

899
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: conspiracy and we don't know who is in prison for

900
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: what reason and why and who's responsible for it. But

901
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 1: we've never really done him offia conspiracy type story on

902
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: this show before, so I thought it was interesting or

903
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: a car bombing.

904
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 2: No, you know, these types of cases are They're fascinating.

905
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 2: There's no question about it. It's just a it's a

906
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 2: different world than like what I lived in when I

907
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 2: was working within law enforcement. You know, My experience, I

908
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 2: would say, is more or you know, reading some of

909
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 2: these books, you know, agents that have gotten under cover

910
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,760
Speaker 2: within organized crime entities, you know, and kind of getting

911
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 2: the inside information on how these entities think and why

912
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 2: they you know, carry out the types of crimes that

913
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 2: they do.

914
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 3: You know.

915
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 2: But well, certainly something like this case Don's homicide, even

916
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 2: though it sounds like they got convictions, they didn't solve it.

917
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 2: They got the low level players, but there's very powerful

918
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,439
Speaker 2: people in my estimation that are behind this, that are

919
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 2: you know, living scott free and probably have committed similar

920
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 2: crimes across the nation.

921
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 1: You know what this is interesting there I mentioned this

922
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 1: guy really briefly, Rubison, James Albert Robison. So he was

923
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: the guy that John Adamson had said was the trigger guy,

924
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: the guy who pushed the button. So this was a

925
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:01,720
Speaker 1: plumber he was charged initially with. John Robison said I

926
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with this. I didn't trigger a bomb.

927
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything. Adamson pleaded guilty as I said,

928
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 1: and served twenty years and two months in prison, so Dunlap,

929
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 1: Max Dunlap, and Robison, whom Adamson had had implicated, they

930
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: were tried together and Ross and Custon's case was based

931
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: on Adamson's testimony who said that Dunlap and Max Dunlap

932
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: approached him about killing Dawn and they reached out to

933
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 1: a friend, this guy, Robison, and that Adamson was paid

934
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:33,280
Speaker 1: about six thousand dollars for his role in the crime.

935
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 1: Both of these guys were convicted, both were sentenced to death.

936
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: So they were convinced the courts and the law enforcement

937
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: was convinced Max Dunlap and John Albert Robison were responsible

938
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: for this, these kind of low level guys, and actually

939
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 1: Robison didn't have a record at all. So in February

940
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty, the Arizona Supreme Court overturned the convictions,

941
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 1: saying that the court improperly denied a defense motion to

942
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: strike Adamson's testimony and so so later this year. Later

943
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 1: that year, their murder charges against Dunlop and Robison were

944
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: dismissed without prejudice because Adamson wouldn't testify again. So ultimately

945
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: what ends up happening is they're trying to try him

946
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: again and they can't get a conviction. He was acquitted.

947
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 1: Immediately after Robson was acquitted, federal authorities charged him with

948
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: soliciting a prison inmate to kill Adamson while he was

949
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: awaiting his second trial, and he did that. Robison did

950
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: try to set up Adams to be murdered for testifying

951
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: against him. So all of this is to say that

952
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: there is all kinds of people floating around. James Albert

953
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: Robison is listed under the National Registry of Exonerations. But

954
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: at the same time he said, yes, I tried to

955
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 1: have this guy executed. I tried to happ into this

956
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: guy murdered because he was setting me up. I mean,

957
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: it's awful. I mean, what a story. I mean, getting

958
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: into the mafia and stuff. It's scary to even think

959
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,919
Speaker 1: of that. Journalists dig in that deeply, but they do

960
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,919
Speaker 1: and I respect that. That is something I can't do,

961
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: but I respect those who do.

962
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and it is.

963
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: It's not just like with what Don was looking into

964
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 2: with this Empress. You know, I had a case which

965
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 2: put me down a rabbit hole, something called In's law promise.

966
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 2: And you have journalists and others that were killed as

967
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 2: a result of this other super weird conspiracy theorist type

968
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 2: of thing.

969
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 3: You know.

970
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 2: I just have firsthand experience kind of with something along

971
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 2: those lines, and that there are powerful people that are

972
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 2: behind a lot of it. And it's like, well, how

973
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 2: you know, if you're just a local PD investigator, you know,

974
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 2: how do you get to where you're actually going up

975
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 2: into the ranks of these organized crime entities. My sense

976
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 2: is with with Don's homicide is there's probably an FBI

977
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 2: agent who basically say, oh, yeah, we know who probably

978
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 2: called the shot. You know, we can't make a case

979
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,319
Speaker 2: on it, but we know who the you know, the

980
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:15,919
Speaker 2: og is or the godfather or whatever you know, you want,

981
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 2: whatever title that person has.

982
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 3: So fascinating for sure.

983
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: Well to end on I think an uplifting note here.

984
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 1: When he died in seventy six, so many people in

985
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,959
Speaker 1: journalism were inspired by what he was doing and why

986
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 1: he died. Clearly it was based on his reporting. We

987
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 1: don't know one hundred percent sure which, but because he

988
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: was doing so much, I mean, was this like the

989
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: you know congressman, was this the mafia? What was this

990
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,439
Speaker 1: dog racing all of it? Real estate? But thirty over

991
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: that year from seventy six to seventy seven, thirty investigati

992
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: journalists from all across the country came to Arizona and

993
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: dedicated themselves almost in shifts to report on corruption in mafia.

994
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 1: And they called it the Arizona Project. And it wasn't

995
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: his honor, you know, I mean, it wasn't connected to

996
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 1: let's figure out who did it, who killed Don. It

997
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: was more like this guy's work has to carry on.

998
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that it's a very cool story. And you

999
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 2: know what those journalists did and his honor was. I mean,

1000
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 2: I think that's that seems genuine and heartfelt, you know.

1001
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 3: So that's that's really cool.

1002
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: Well, we're not going to do another story about a

1003
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: journalist who dies, not for a while, because that just

1004
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: gets to me. But thank you for listening to my story. Well,

1005
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 1: we won't do another car bombing for a while. But

1006
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm always interested in learning more about different kinds of

1007
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: weapons and the way, you know, I mean, just the

1008
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: different types of forensics I think is fascinating. So thank

1009
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: you for coming along this journey with me to nineteen

1010
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: seventies Arizona.

1011
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 3: No, this was again fascinating.

1012
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 2: I appreciate this case is unusual and it's somewhat intellectually challenging.

1013
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 3: Let's say that.

1014
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,959
Speaker 1: Well, that to me means you need some time off.

1015
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: So we're on a little bit of a hias, just

1016
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 1: a little tiny Hiatu's nothing too long. But we'll be

1017
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 1: back and I'll have another story that will be a

1018
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: mind bender.

1019
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 3: I'm sure all right, sounds good, Kate.

1020
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 1: Thank you, Paul. This has been an exactly right production.

1021
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 2: For our sources and show notes go to exactlyrightmedia dot

1022
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 2: com slash Buried Bones sources.

1023
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Alexis Emirosi.

1024
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 2: Research by Maren mcclashan, Ali Elkin, and Kate Winkler Dawson.

1025
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: Our mixing engineer is Ben Tolliday.

1026
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 3: Our theme song is by Tom Bryvogel.

1027
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: Our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

1028
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 2: Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia hard Stark and Daniel Kramer.

1029
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: You can follow Buried Bones on Instagram and Facebook at

1030
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 1: Buried Bones pod.

1031
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 2: Kate's most recent book, All That Is That Wicked, a

1032
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 2: Gilded Age story of murder and the race to decode

1033
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 2: the criminal mind, is available now, and

1034
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 1: Paul's best selling memoir Unmasked My Life Solving America's Cold

1035
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: Cases is also available now.