Speaker 1: Last time on ear Witness, I.
Speaker 2: Have my mind spirit for Cross told you I have
Speaker 2: a pit.
Speaker 1: What appears to be a.
Speaker 2: Jumped the comedy police officer shot in the back of
Speaker 2: our building.
Speaker 3: He hit that movie.
Speaker 2: He has been shot.
Speaker 4: Looks it looks too bad.
Speaker 5: And then I just heard one say that's it. It's old.
Speaker 5: We can't do anymore.
Speaker 4: It's old. We can't save it.
Speaker 5: He's gone. Tavarra Johnson. I remember he was pushing Adrika's
Speaker 5: forward in a wheelchair. They came together.
Speaker 6: I had saw too far.
Speaker 5: I was pushing a Drinka's in the club. I just
Speaker 5: sat two signs up and I left.
Speaker 3: And and he was still there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was when I left.
Speaker 3: A defuity shareer working another deputy shares murder. Do you
Speaker 3: think that was emotional? Yes, it was very and had
Speaker 3: it been my decision the day we caught the people
Speaker 3: that did it, let's put them on death throat.
Speaker 1: The murder of Deputy Bill Hardy behind the Crown Sterling
Speaker 1: Sweets Hotel was the top news story in Birmingham on
Speaker 1: July nineteenth, nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 3: And plays are looking for a cop killer. Someone shot
Speaker 3: forty nine year old William Hardy several times in the year.
Speaker 3: Slow start, but investigators are throwing everything they have behind
Speaker 3: the caves.
Speaker 1: The TV news footage shows deputies wearing the traditional black
Speaker 1: band over their badges, a gesture that expresses for a
Speaker 1: fellow officer.
Speaker 3: We'll somber, we'll say it, but we know we have
Speaker 3: a job to do, and we're determined to.
Speaker 2: Do that job.
Speaker 7: This is a very difficult night for William Hardy's family.
Speaker 8: The Hardy home is full of sorrow and pain as
Speaker 8: they search for asss to a senseless crime.
Speaker 1: A week after the murder, hundreds of people turn out
Speaker 1: for Deputy Hardy's funeral.
Speaker 4: Thank you, my brothers, Thank you, my brothers.
Speaker 1: Video footage of the funeral shows women in dresses fanning themselves.
Speaker 1: It's summer in Alabama, a swampy ninety seven degrees. Someone
Speaker 1: actually faints in the heat.
Speaker 2: We are still by that.
Speaker 8: We all have to do what Bill has already done.
Speaker 1: The church is packed, but at least one longtime colleague
Speaker 1: of Hardy's isn't at the service.
Speaker 5: I didn't make the funeral. We worked this case so hard,
Speaker 5: and we were so determined to get a resolution. I
Speaker 5: was working. I didn't make his.
Speaker 1: Feel Tony Richardson is the lead detective on the case.
Speaker 1: A prosecutor who used to work with Richardson tells me
Speaker 1: he's a thorough investigator, a man who gets the job done.
Speaker 1: But this case is different from any other he's worked before.
Speaker 1: He's investigating the murder of someone he knows, someone he likes,
Speaker 1: someone he worked with for almost two decades.
Speaker 3: When you got a deafor shriff killed over here, it's
Speaker 3: high profile and people are expecting things out here, not
Speaker 3: only you. You know, you emotional. You want to find
Speaker 3: the people who did this. You want somebody in custom.
Speaker 1: In the immediate hours after Deputy Hardy's murder, Detective Tony
Speaker 1: Richardson and his investigators interviewed Marshal Kelly Cummings, the Keebler
Speaker 1: cookie guy who heard the shots and saw someone drive away.
Speaker 1: They also interview the front desk clerk at the hotel,
Speaker 1: Barry Rushikov, and other people staying at the Crown Sterling
Speaker 1: Suites who heard voices in the parking lot followed by gunshots.
Speaker 1: No one they talked to says they actually saw the murder.
Speaker 1: Just a few witnesses heard the gunshots and then saw
Speaker 1: a car pull away. The lead evidence technician who's actually
Speaker 1: Tony Richardson's brother, Deputy Charlie Richardson, finds two nine millimeters
Speaker 1: shell casings at the scene. A ballistics expert will later
Speaker 1: say that both casings came from the same gun, and
Speaker 1: that's pretty much all they have to go on. Police
Speaker 1: sweep the surrounding area and pull over any vehicle's loosely
Speaker 1: matching descriptions from hotel guests, but it doesn't get them
Speaker 1: very far.
Speaker 3: Not only do you want somebody in custody. The lieutenant
Speaker 3: is telling me, we need to get this done. The
Speaker 3: captain is telling the lieutenant, we need to get this done.
Speaker 3: The sheriff, you're telling the captain, we need to.
Speaker 5: Get this done.
Speaker 1: Nine hours after Hardy is killed, the Sheriff's department announces
Speaker 1: a reward for information. The reward amount would eventually grow
Speaker 1: to twenty thousand dollars adjusted for inflation, that's about forty
Speaker 1: grand today. And once a tip line is announced, the
Speaker 1: phone start ringing. One caller says a guy known as
Speaker 1: Big Man told him his cousin was involved. Another says
Speaker 1: a member of the Disciples gang carried out the murder.
Speaker 1: Officers sift through this information trying to decipher what's worth
Speaker 1: pursuing and which callers might be pranks, are people just
Speaker 1: interested in the rear ward money. Days go by and
Speaker 1: they still don't have a suspect. And then Detective Richardson
Speaker 1: speaks to a woman named Rosa Hardy, and what she
Speaker 1: tells him eclipses every other lead he has.
Speaker 5: And she told me, she says, my daughter knows who
Speaker 5: killed Bill.
Speaker 1: I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness chapter two.
Speaker 3: Don't know Diddley, anybody that was not there when I
Speaker 3: was there, anybody that was not there when Harry was shot.
Speaker 5: Don't know deadily about this case.
Speaker 1: When I first got the enormous trove of records in
Speaker 1: the investigative file, I spent hours and hours just staring
Speaker 1: at my computer, overwhelmed by thousands of pages of documents.
Speaker 1: Right away I knew I wanted to talk to Tony Richardson,
Speaker 1: the lead investigator in Hardy's murder. His name is on
Speaker 1: most of the police reports, and it's his voice we
Speaker 1: hear on a lot of the interrogation tapes.
Speaker 7: Sorry of Tony vision, Jeff, we got a Shuran service.
Speaker 1: Today's data is when I first call him. For an interview.
Speaker 1: He says it would be best not to talk with me,
Speaker 1: but Richardson keeps talking for twenty five minutes. It seems
Speaker 1: like he's got a lot on his mind. Two weeks later,
Speaker 1: he agrees to go on the record.
Speaker 2: Listen.
Speaker 3: I've decided I'm going to speak with you concerning your podcast.
Speaker 1: Great, I'm really glad to hear that. My producer Mara,
Speaker 1: and I meet him in a conference room of a
Speaker 1: local library.
Speaker 2: Okay, how are you.
Speaker 1: I'm Beth Tony.
Speaker 4: This is Maura.
Speaker 8: Nice to be too.
Speaker 1: He's dressed casually, jeans, a black sweatshirt, a US Marines
Speaker 1: ball cap, and a toothpick he keeps in his mouth
Speaker 1: the entire interview.
Speaker 5: Somebody when they hear this, they're going to be questioning.
Speaker 3: My integrity. You know, is this guy telling the truth for?
Speaker 3: Is he just telling the story? So I'll talk to
Speaker 3: you to the NSKY.
Speaker 1: When Detective Tony Richardson first gets that tip from Rosa Hardy,
Speaker 1: he goes over to the Ford dealership where she works
Speaker 1: as a receptionist.
Speaker 5: I was always pretty thorough.
Speaker 1: I wrote everything down, He writes in a report that
Speaker 1: Rosa Hardy told an officer that her daughter had information
Speaker 1: concerning the crime. The police report reads, Miss Hardy told
Speaker 1: us that after she arrived for work at twelve noon
Speaker 1: of seven nineteen, she heard a police officer had been killed.
Speaker 1: She bought a newspaper and learned the victim was someone
Speaker 1: she and her family knew personally. Rosa knew Deputy Hardy
Speaker 1: and his wife. They have the same last name, but
Speaker 1: they're not related. They were good friends. The report goes
Speaker 1: on to say that Rosa's daughter, Yolanda Chambers, called her
Speaker 1: at work. Rosa told her that the officer that had
Speaker 1: been killed was Bill Hardy. According to Rosa, her daughter
Speaker 1: Yolanda responded, Mama, I didn't know it was him, And
Speaker 1: then Yolanda went on to say she knew who killed him.
Speaker 5: She says, my daughter knows who killed Bill. Well great will.
Speaker 5: She talked to me, I don't know. She kind of reluctant.
Speaker 5: She don't want to do it.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to get her to do it, and I
Speaker 3: was just begging her, you know, let's figure out a
Speaker 3: way to get her in.
Speaker 4: We need her.
Speaker 1: But Rosa isn't sure where Yolanda is.
Speaker 3: I think at the time, Yolanda was a semi runaway
Speaker 3: or whatever, but she wasn't there, okay, So we worked
Speaker 3: very hard with Mom to get Yolanda in.
Speaker 1: Later that evening, Rosa calls the Sheriff's office and says,
Speaker 1: Yolanda is at her apartment, and that's where Richardson picks
Speaker 1: her up. He brings Yolanda to Sheriff's headquarters for questioning.
Speaker 7: Charlton, Tony rich and Jeffson Kuint of Shriff's Office. Today's
Speaker 7: date is July twenty fourth, nineteen ninety five. The time
Speaker 7: it's eleven twenty pm. I'm at the Sheriff's Office headquarters
Speaker 7: along with Officer James Branton at the Birmingham Police Department
Speaker 7: and Yolanda Michelle Chambers. Yolanda is a black female. She's
Speaker 7: fifteen years of age. Again, what I want to talk
Speaker 7: to you.
Speaker 1: About is Yolanda is by herself in a room with
Speaker 1: detectives and a tape recorder.
Speaker 7: So I guess the best way for us to proceed
Speaker 7: is for you to tell me. First of all, when
Speaker 7: you learn that w Hardy had been killed?
Speaker 6: All right, if I'm not mistaken, it was a Friday,
Speaker 6: Me and one of my girlfriends, say he named Latanya.
Speaker 6: Me and her and two guys are supposed to hook
Speaker 6: cup that night. Yeah, you know they're older than us.
Speaker 6: One is twenty one.
Speaker 2: They call him Dre. He's in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1: Dre is Ur Dregas Ford's nickname, and for some reason
Speaker 1: in this interview, Yolanda refers to to Forest as Carlos
Speaker 1: and he.
Speaker 6: Has a brother named Carlos. So we you know, we
Speaker 6: were supposed to hook up, you know, after they left Teeves.
Speaker 1: To Forest and Ardregas are not related, and to Forest's
Speaker 1: nickname has never been Carlos. It's unclear why Yolanda refers
Speaker 1: to him this way, but she tells police that ar
Speaker 1: Dregas called her around two am. He and to Forrest
Speaker 1: had left Tea's place and were on their way to
Speaker 1: pick her up.
Speaker 2: You know they'd be on time.
Speaker 6: They call it around about two or three, you know,
Speaker 6: be like come on.
Speaker 1: Ardregas asks Yolanda to bring along a friend for to Forest.
Speaker 1: So after they pick up Yolanda, they all drive to
Speaker 1: pick up her friend, Latanya Henderson, who lives a few
Speaker 1: minutes away. I want to take a moment to address
Speaker 1: the age gap between to Forest, Ardregas and the girls
Speaker 1: they're picking up to Forest is twenty two, Ardregas is
Speaker 1: twenty one, Latania is sixteen, and Yolanda is fifteen. To
Speaker 1: Forest and Ardregas met Yolanda and Latania at a night
Speaker 1: club two nights prior to picking them up after teas.
Speaker 1: It's likely that the girls lied about their age to
Speaker 1: get into the club where they met. But I don't
Speaker 1: know if to Forest and Ardregas knew how old they were.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if it came up. The age
Speaker 1: of consent in Alabama is sixteen. But regardless, guys in
Speaker 1: their early twenties picking up teenage girls. It's just problematic.
Speaker 6: Him and Carlos came down and we went all hand
Speaker 6: to was in dear park Pelataia.
Speaker 1: Yolanda says that once they get to Latanya's house, it
Speaker 1: takes a while for Latanya to get ready.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, going out and tell you about it. For
Speaker 6: forty minutes to get ready, take our bathroostuf because she
Speaker 6: didn't have on no clothes.
Speaker 1: Latanya finally sneaks out of her bedroom window to meet them.
Speaker 1: Once the girls are in the car, Yolanda says that
Speaker 1: something is off and our Dregas seems nervous.
Speaker 6: You know and all like what's wronging wrong? Why we
Speaker 6: didn't got to get fill the wrong? We don't either,
Speaker 6: you know, it goes o injur chill out. So you know,
Speaker 6: we were riding around, you know, we're telling hill a
Speaker 6: man and it is smoked a cop.
Speaker 1: According to Yolanda or Dragas says, the other guy in
Speaker 1: the car with them, to Forrest had smoked a cop.
Speaker 6: You know who got their life playing y'all got us
Speaker 6: in the cortown y'all and did from did a crime.
Speaker 1: Somehow. This revelation that to Forrest and Ardregis were supposedly
Speaker 1: just involved in the murder of a police officer doesn't
Speaker 1: deter their plans.
Speaker 7: She says.
Speaker 1: The four of them drive off to look for a
Speaker 1: hotel room.
Speaker 6: We rode around in Hollywood usbid went to the Fat
Speaker 6: fear hand, but.
Speaker 1: She says, the Fairfield end was booked solid and so
Speaker 1: they head across the street to the Super eight motel.
Speaker 6: So when we went light cross to the suba eighth ahole,
Speaker 6: lot of cops came from knowing sheriffs and everything that
Speaker 6: came and I'll you know, and hated everybody to get
Speaker 6: at the car.
Speaker 1: It's there and the Super eight parking lot. That officers
Speaker 1: tell the group they're investigating the murder of a deputy
Speaker 1: who was shot and killed earlier that night a few
Speaker 1: miles away at the Crown Sterling Suitets Hotel. Remember, officers
Speaker 1: were on the lookout for cars in the vicinity of
Speaker 1: the crime scene, and this is why they pull in
Speaker 1: behind the Monte Carlo in the Super eight parking lot.
Speaker 1: One of the officers later testifies that he tried to
Speaker 1: extract ar Dregis from the car before learning that he's paralyzed.
Speaker 1: The officer makes to Forest get out of the car,
Speaker 1: put his hands on the trunk while he pats him down,
Speaker 1: then looks inside the Monte Carlo with his flashlight. He
Speaker 1: finds nothing suspicious and decides to let everyone go except
Speaker 1: to Forest because he has a misdemeanor warrant for driving
Speaker 1: without a license, so police take to Forest to the
Speaker 1: Birmingham City Jail and he bonds out later that afternoon. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Ardregas's license is expired, so police won't let him drive home,
Speaker 1: and he leaves the Monte Carlo in the Super eight
Speaker 1: parking lot. He and the girls get a cab to
Speaker 1: go home and Yolanda crashes at a friend's house. She
Speaker 1: says she calls her mom later that morning, how god
Speaker 1: my mom is?
Speaker 2: Next morning, she say, guess at being as big.
Speaker 1: That click, it's the sound of an officer turning the
Speaker 1: tape recorder off. We don't know what's being said between
Speaker 1: Yolanda and investigators when the tape is stopped, but Yolanda's
Speaker 1: first interview isn't over. The tape starts rolling again.
Speaker 6: Okay, go ahead, Yeah, I'll tell my mom a bide
Speaker 6: and she can see Landa, you know her the police
Speaker 6: house that got killed last night.
Speaker 2: I'm right here.
Speaker 7: Okay, let me stop you again, okay, because I want
Speaker 7: to make sure that we get it on the record.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 7: You have already mentioned in your statement that this was
Speaker 7: a Friday.
Speaker 6: It was a Tuesday, because that's when they had a
Speaker 6: happy hour. It was going on with her Wednesday morning,
Speaker 6: round back food.
Speaker 1: Yolanda says that Carlos, remember, that's what she's calling to.
Speaker 1: Forrest told her the time that he shot Deputy Hardy.
Speaker 6: But if they had worn bout twelve right now, twelve thirty, Carlos.
Speaker 1: And then Yolanda suggests a potential motive. She says, Deputy
Speaker 1: Hardy had arrested to forrest before, and that's why he
Speaker 1: supposedly shot him.
Speaker 6: No, because I think we are arrested him a found before, Carlos.
Speaker 5: You go where you're arrested him at?
Speaker 2: I think it has only the way he went to parison.
Speaker 1: An officer turns the tape recorder off for a second time.
Speaker 1: When the tape resumes, Yolanda offers a different motive for
Speaker 1: Hardy's murder now. She says they killed him after an
Speaker 1: attempted robbery, and since Hardy had seen their faces, it
Speaker 1: just made sense to kill him.
Speaker 2: Got a mo things former do with kill him.
Speaker 1: In the last minutes of the interview, detectives ask Yolanda
Speaker 1: why Ardregis and Carlos had gone to the Crown Sterling Suites,
Speaker 1: and she says they wanted to get a room because
Speaker 1: they sell drugs. They ask her if she knows anybody
Speaker 1: else these guys run with. Yolanda points to the photos
Speaker 1: of two other men and a stack that police show her.
Speaker 1: You hear Richardson say she has identified Omar Berry and
Speaker 1: Quintez Wilson.
Speaker 4: Quinte is Wilson. This guy you look at, you know him?
Speaker 7: As what okay, that's the photograph of Omar Berry.
Speaker 1: These two other young black men are added to their
Speaker 1: list of suspects. This first recorded interview lasts about thirty
Speaker 1: five minutes, and right at the end, an officer asks
Speaker 1: Yolanda if anyone has made promises to her.
Speaker 4: They promises to you by the statements you just made.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: Vin.
Speaker 1: She answers no. Then we hear her say the only
Speaker 1: thing y'all gonna and then there's seven long seconds of silence.
Speaker 7: It's Charlie Richardson. This is going to conclude this interview
Speaker 7: at this time eleven PM.
Speaker 1: I listened to this interview over and over again, and
Speaker 1: what stands out is that each time officers stop and
Speaker 1: then restart the tape, there's a shift in Yolanda's story.
Speaker 1: At first, first she says it was a Friday that
Speaker 1: she heard about Hardy's murder. Then, after the tape stops
Speaker 1: and restarts, Richardson prompts her for the date, and she
Speaker 1: corrects herself and says it was a Tuesday night going
Speaker 1: into Wednesday. With every restart of the tape, Richardson gets
Speaker 1: a story that lines up more and more with the
Speaker 1: facts surrounding Hardy's murder, that he was shot on Wednesday
Speaker 1: morning behind the Crown Sterling at twelve fifty am. And
Speaker 1: then there's the motives. Yolanda provides first that to Forest
Speaker 1: killed Hardy because Hardy had arrested him previously. But we
Speaker 1: know Hardy had not arrested to Forrest at the time
Speaker 1: of his death. Hardy worked in court services. His duties
Speaker 1: involved serving subpoenas and directing traffic outside the courthouse. I've
Speaker 1: seen zero evidence that Deputy Hardy ever came into contact
Speaker 1: with four Worst Johnson. After the tape stops and restarts,
Speaker 1: Yolanda gives a second motive that the crime started as
Speaker 1: an attempted robbery that ends in Hardy's murder. I asked
Speaker 1: Tony Richardson about his approach with Yolanda.
Speaker 5: Yolanda was reluctant. She didn't want to talk, she didn't
Speaker 5: want We had to keep.
Speaker 3: Better and we had to pull like polenty, you know, Yolanda,
Speaker 3: we need this and sometimes we'd have to be stern,
Speaker 3: you know, infirm, trying to shake her. You know, sometime
Speaker 3: we'd have to be soft, whatever will work to get
Speaker 3: this information out of her.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of stops and starts, and I
Speaker 1: wonder what is going on? Then like the tape stops
Speaker 1: and then it restarts. I could do you when you
Speaker 1: go off the record with people, I mean, what what
Speaker 1: is best practices?
Speaker 4: For best practice?
Speaker 5: If not is not to go off the record, that's
Speaker 5: the best practice.
Speaker 3: I mean, once you cut the tape on, unless the
Speaker 3: tape runs out and you changing the tape, you don't
Speaker 3: cut it off until you're done. There's no way I
Speaker 3: can tell you why the tape stopped, but I will
Speaker 3: tell you this. It didn't stop so something sinister could happen.
Speaker 5: I can tell you that.
Speaker 3: What would do you do off the record though? I
Speaker 3: mean somebody could have wanted to go to the bathroom,
Speaker 3: or could have just motioned for a break, or or.
Speaker 5: Could have even motioned to say, cut that thing off.
Speaker 3: You know, there's no way I can tell you why
Speaker 3: it was cut off. I can tell you there's nothing
Speaker 3: sinister here. I mean, there's no smoking gun here as
Speaker 3: far as doing anything that was not above board. Never
Speaker 3: never occurred, never happened, never happened.
Speaker 9: It was early in the morning and I was just
Speaker 9: lounging around in my apartment, you know, and I had
Speaker 9: my front door was open, and where I was sitting,
Speaker 9: I could see out the door and here I see
Speaker 9: just cars one Marco.
Speaker 1: In July of nineteen ninety five, to Forrest and his
Speaker 1: cousin Antonio Green were living together. But on the morning
Speaker 1: of the twenty fifth, Antonio is alone in their apartment
Speaker 1: when police cars pull out.
Speaker 9: Oh there, So I see him pulling up in the front,
Speaker 9: lock in the bag, and I'm like, oh, what's going
Speaker 9: on over here? You know, next thing I know, they're
Speaker 9: in my daughter and their acts was to far As
Speaker 9: Johnson there I said, no, it's no, he's been staying here.
Speaker 9: But while he asking me this, they've already came in
Speaker 9: bought both doors, so they're already in my house. They're
Speaker 9: going down the hallway. So I'm thinking, nah, this must
Speaker 9: be something serious, you know, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: So this guy's telling me what officers say they're looking
Speaker 1: for to Forest because they think he might know something
Speaker 1: about a.
Speaker 9: Murder something or when they said murder, that really just
Speaker 9: threw me all the way to the left, because violent.
Speaker 9: He wasn't never violent, you know, rambunks his teenager, young
Speaker 9: kid doing what all of us were doing, and far
Speaker 9: As a partying and having a good time and all this,
Speaker 9: but violence never.
Speaker 4: He was never a violent person.
Speaker 1: As officers walk through Antonio's house, his phone rings. It's
Speaker 1: his grandfather and he says police are at his house too.
Speaker 1: Antonio hangs up and the phone rings again, ring again.
Speaker 4: I answered it, and it's him.
Speaker 5: It's the Freest.
Speaker 4: I said, hey, man, where you head?
Speaker 5: He said, I'm headed up there now.
Speaker 4: I said, yeah, it's folks looking for you airways.
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's what I heard. I don't know what they want,
Speaker 9: but I'm finna go and see now. I'm going up
Speaker 9: dead house now and see what they want.
Speaker 10: So he did.
Speaker 1: To Forest tells his cousin he has no idea why
Speaker 1: police want to talk to him, but he goes to
Speaker 1: meet with them at his grandfather's house.
Speaker 9: Father's house and I heard him over the radio say
Speaker 9: we got him in custody.
Speaker 4: And only then would they lead house.
Speaker 1: Police take to Forest to Sheriff's office headquarters for questioning.
Speaker 1: On the morning of July twenty fifth, the day after
Speaker 1: they first talked to Yolanda Chambers, Detective Tony Richardson and
Speaker 1: his partner Tom Salter asked to Forrest to walk them
Speaker 1: through the evening of July eighteenth, the hours leading up
Speaker 1: to Deputy Harty's murder.
Speaker 4: I suppose you're doing it five o'clock and even proud
Speaker 4: little again well who who?
Speaker 1: To Forrest says that around five pm he was getting
Speaker 1: his haircut at a neighborhood spot called gas World Park
Speaker 1: gas Station Park, barbershop and nail salon part convenience store. Afterwards,
Speaker 1: he met up with his little brother at his mom's
Speaker 1: apartment complex.
Speaker 4: He was hanging out outside.
Speaker 7: I think, yeah, we'd be outside of there on the
Speaker 7: little park or around.
Speaker 5: Walking is something to do. Any they to do is
Speaker 5: try to.
Speaker 1: Fire, something to do, trying to find something to do
Speaker 1: when there's nothing to do. As to Forrest tells this
Speaker 1: to police, he has no way of knowing that he's
Speaker 1: describing one of his last few days of freedom.
Speaker 4: So you guys might take you home because you're hungry.
Speaker 4: What'd you fix a blown sand?
Speaker 1: Yes, he fries himself a Bolognian cheese sand which, play
Speaker 1: Sega and listens to the radio.
Speaker 4: See, I think I stayed at home the Draga's game.
Speaker 4: I think I stayed there. Came feed me in.
Speaker 1: He stays there and tell his friend ar dregas Ford
Speaker 1: picks him up in his nineteen seventy one black Monte
Speaker 1: Carlo to go to Tea's place. While police asked to
Speaker 1: Forrest about the night Hearty was killed. Others are out
Speaker 1: looking for ar Dregas Ford. They knock on the door
Speaker 1: of his mom's house. Here's Joyce Ford.
Speaker 10: Three o'clock that morning, I'll stayed at Central Park. Somebody
Speaker 10: knocked on the door and I said, who is it?
Speaker 10: And they said Jefferson, count of sheriff Man. So I
Speaker 10: looked out the window. They were everywhere. I opened the
Speaker 10: door and I was kind of nervous, and they said,
Speaker 10: is Draga's Ford home?
Speaker 5: I said no.
Speaker 10: Then they said what can we come in? I said,
Speaker 10: I don't have anything to have. You welcome to come in,
Speaker 10: but do you have a search one? And they said no.
Speaker 10: I said, well you can't come in. They said, well,
Speaker 10: we have some questions to asks and can you bring
Speaker 10: him in when he get home?
Speaker 5: And I told him.
Speaker 10: When he got home, I told him what happened and
Speaker 10: he said, yeah, Ma, I'd be glad to go.
Speaker 1: So Joyce drives our Dregas to the Sheriff's office headquarters
Speaker 1: on the morning of July twenty sixth detectives Richardson and
Speaker 1: Salter ask him what he was up to on the
Speaker 1: night of the murder. Richardson asks him what time he
Speaker 1: picked up to Forrest.
Speaker 4: First time you saw him tubes.
Speaker 7: It was about ten o'clock at night.
Speaker 1: But team about team once they get to tease or
Speaker 1: Dragas says, his beeper is going off all night. It's
Speaker 1: Yolanda Chambers.
Speaker 4: Should have been paid, but I want to call her.
Speaker 1: But he had just met her the previous Sunday at
Speaker 1: another nightclub called the Jaguar. In separate interviews, both to
Speaker 1: Forrest and Ardregas tell detectives they hung out at teas
Speaker 1: until past one am, catching up with old friends like
Speaker 1: Mama Cat and Queasy.
Speaker 9: Right there, we were fucking with that girl, Mama Kid
Speaker 9: were out telling you about Mamma.
Speaker 4: Caedd and Queasy.
Speaker 1: But after they strike out at the club, Ardregas says
Speaker 1: he finally calls Yolanda around two thirty am, so I
Speaker 1: call her told I will come get Ardregas says, he
Speaker 1: and too Forrest pick up Yolanda and then head to
Speaker 1: her friend Latanya's house, and just like Yolanda told police,
Speaker 1: He also says that Latanya doesn't come out to meet
Speaker 1: them right away. He remembers this clearly because it was
Speaker 1: kind of annoying to go wow, to come out.
Speaker 5: At daytime or night. You know, ain't got time to
Speaker 5: be waiting a more bad.
Speaker 1: Detectives also bring Latanya Henderson in for questioning. She talks
Speaker 1: to a female officer without a parent or lawyer present,
Speaker 1: and she says the same thing, so, Yolanda, and then picked.
Speaker 6: You up around three o'clock my time again, caland three
Speaker 6: and third o'clock am.
Speaker 5: In a moment it.
Speaker 1: All four of them say. They leave Latanya's house and
Speaker 1: try to get a room.
Speaker 4: I see when we pulled up at the fair viaa.
Speaker 5: We went to Fairfield first to put them in a
Speaker 5: fair Field.
Speaker 1: Just like Yolanda says. They tell police that the Fairfield
Speaker 1: Inn is booked, so they head to the Super eight Motel.
Speaker 1: This is where officers stopped them as part of their
Speaker 1: sweep of cars across Homewood. At this point, ardregis to forrest. Latania,
Speaker 1: and Yolanda have all independently described similar versions of the
Speaker 1: night to detectives, with one huge exception. No one in
Speaker 1: the car says they know anything about Deputy Hardy murder
Speaker 1: except Yolanda.
Speaker 7: Today David July twenty sixth, nineteen ninety five. At the
Speaker 7: time is twelve thirty seven, two.
Speaker 1: Days after her first recorded interview with police, Yolanda Chambers
Speaker 1: is back in for questioning. At first, Yolanda tells a
Speaker 1: similar story to her first interview that she heard Ardregis
Speaker 1: say that to Forrest killed a cop.
Speaker 4: Did you say anything?
Speaker 2: Is now?
Speaker 1: The tape recorder is turned off. Forty minutes later, they
Speaker 1: start recording again, bes.
Speaker 7: Sharton Richard and I'm uh restarting to uh to take
Speaker 7: the time is uh twenty minutes to two, and we
Speaker 7: took a short break. Uh we gonna get started again.
Speaker 2: You're learn to uh.
Speaker 7: During our break time, Uh, we talked something about the
Speaker 7: the incident of.
Speaker 5: The for the case.
Speaker 7: Now, I was gonna ask you, now what you have
Speaker 7: already told me during the times that I have interviewed you,
Speaker 7: is that the truth? No, it's not the truth. No,
Speaker 7: did any that you told me?
Speaker 5: Did any of that occur?
Speaker 2: Can occur, but it was not nothing that I had occurred. Mkay.
Speaker 7: So are you telling me that you didn't get this
Speaker 7: second hand that when this deputy was shot and killed
Speaker 7: that you were there.
Speaker 2: M No, I didn't get it taking hand how Then.
Speaker 1: She says she was actually there when Hardy was shot,
Speaker 1: and she's about to tell detectives a completely different version
Speaker 1: of what happened that night.
Speaker 7: Okay, tell me about that.
Speaker 2: Well, when I told you that they were supposed to
Speaker 2: come get me around back, he be given me by
Speaker 2: eleventh thirty, They did come and give me. As the
Speaker 2: act for five.
Speaker 1: Yolanda now says that to Forrest and Rodregaz came to
Speaker 1: pick her up around eleven thirty pm instead of two am.
Speaker 2: You know, pafter they came and got new women gat
Speaker 2: her crying you were you were ready? Yuh huh women?
Speaker 2: You mean brought right out right on now?
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: Yolanda says that Latanya hops right into the car instead
Speaker 1: of taking a long time to get ready.
Speaker 7: Did you know at the time y'all we're going?
Speaker 2: Yeah, where were you doing?
Speaker 4: Okay? So did y'all go to the crass there?
Speaker 2: Yeah? We went, we went.
Speaker 1: She now says they left Latanya's house and went straight
Speaker 1: to the Crown Sterling Suite's hotel.
Speaker 4: And what time do you think you got there?
Speaker 2: A little astafoya because Draga's drive pad.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 1: Yolanda names an arrival time that fits neatly with Hardy's murder,
Speaker 1: which was around twelve to fifty am, and then she
Speaker 1: says that our Dregas and de Forrest we're meeting up
Speaker 1: with some guys at the hotel to do a drug deal, okay.
Speaker 4: And where did y'all call.
Speaker 2: On the SAD Now on the SAD for the south
Speaker 2: right cross from where the bank.
Speaker 1: Is, she says they pull up on the side of
Speaker 1: the hotel, across from another car that flashes its lights
Speaker 1: at them. Inside that car, Yolanda says she sees three
Speaker 1: people and two of them are the guys she previously
Speaker 1: identified in photos that police showed her, Omar Barry and
Speaker 1: Quintez Wilson. Yolanda says that Omar and Quintez walk over
Speaker 1: to Ardregas's car and to Forrest gets out to join them. Yolanda, Latanya,
Speaker 1: and Ardregas stay in the car, and Yolanda says this
Speaker 1: is when she sees Deputy Bill Hardy walk around the
Speaker 1: side of the building. In the final six minutes of
Speaker 1: this recording, Yolanda tells a disjointed version of events. She
Speaker 1: says Deputy Hardy meets up with this group of men
Speaker 1: in the parking lot and they huddle up, then all
Speaker 1: walk toward the front entrance of the hotel. She says
Speaker 1: they're gone for thirty to forty minutes, when to Forrest,
Speaker 1: who she calls Carlos jogs back to the cars, Carlo.
Speaker 2: Jumping for the man who on this gold is gold.
Speaker 9: It's cold going to start, you do now.
Speaker 1: Up until this point, Yolanda has not mentioned Hardy's murder.
Speaker 7: Okay, Now, you mentioned to me that you heard what
Speaker 7: you thought was three shots.
Speaker 2: But when we heard it, we were like, we know
Speaker 2: what it was. We didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 1: This is the first time there's any mention on tape
Speaker 1: that Yolanda heard gunshots. She confirms it after Tony Richardson
Speaker 1: brings it up.
Speaker 7: So you heard those shots before he ever ran back
Speaker 7: to the show when they will call in their long
Speaker 7: period of time.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: This version of events does not line up with what
Speaker 1: Richardson knows about the crime. Hardy was murdered at the
Speaker 1: back entrance of the hotel, not the side near the
Speaker 1: bank where Yolanda says they were parked, and definitely not
Speaker 1: the front of the hotel. Where she claims this group
Speaker 1: of men disappeared with Hardy.
Speaker 2: This is what you're telling me, now, this is the
Speaker 2: honest for guy truth.
Speaker 7: Okay, why did you tell me from the all that
Speaker 7: you were But I was scared.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what it was.
Speaker 6: Clams who I just think I went to Okay, I
Speaker 6: just want to I sause I knew of about it.
Speaker 6: You know, I didn't wanted to let you know that
Speaker 6: I have some information about it, but I don't want
Speaker 6: you out to know how they're the age of pass.
Speaker 1: The recorder is turned off yet again for almost an hour.
Speaker 1: When the tape starts up again, Sergeant Salter asks the questions, Ms.
Speaker 8: Chambers, we need to clarify something about where y'all were
Speaker 8: parked at at the Crown Sterling Suites, and it's my
Speaker 8: understanding that y'all drove in to the parking lot to
Speaker 8: the back door.
Speaker 4: Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Correct?
Speaker 1: Yolanda now agrees that they were parked at the back
Speaker 1: of the hotel where Hardy was shot. There's no discussion
Speaker 1: on tape about why this detailed chained changed, and then
Speaker 1: her story changes again. She says she didn't just hear
Speaker 1: the shots. She says she sees Deputy Hardy falling to
Speaker 1: the ground right after he shot.
Speaker 2: I heard the first shot, and then I looked over.
Speaker 2: He had already fail. You were falling.
Speaker 8: He was falling when you saw him. Who was standing
Speaker 8: in front of him? When you saw him falling?
Speaker 2: It was a little Carlo.
Speaker 4: Did you see a gun.
Speaker 5: At the bad time?
Speaker 4: You didn't? Did you hear another shot?
Speaker 2: I heard? I heard three shots.
Speaker 4: You heard three shots?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 4: Then what happened?
Speaker 2: And then.
Speaker 4: A running who started running all over him? Okay.
Speaker 1: Sergeant Salter then prompts her to talk about what she
Speaker 1: sees when to Forrest gets back into Ardregus's money.
Speaker 8: Carlo, did he have anything on his hand that you
Speaker 8: told me?
Speaker 4: Did you think he was hurt?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Did you see how he got the blood on his hands?
Speaker 2: No, I've just seen the blood. I don't put it
Speaker 2: on me.
Speaker 1: Yolanda chambers statement to police has gone from hearing Ardrega
Speaker 1: say his buddy smoked a cop to actually being at
Speaker 1: the Crown Sterling Suites wind shots were fired and seeing
Speaker 1: blood dripping off to Forrest's hands.
Speaker 5: Did I believe everything Lena told me?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: Hell no, hell no. But Yolanda told a lot of truth.
Speaker 3: Why she was trying to hide it by telling lovels?
Speaker 1: Why do you think she told a lot of truth?
Speaker 1: Like what convinced you that some of what she was
Speaker 1: telling you was truth and some wasn't?
Speaker 3: You know? Police officers through their gnahge investigative skills, history.
Speaker 5: You know, they know how to put things together.
Speaker 3: So I started talking to you, but I already know
Speaker 3: in my mind before you ever started talking, what happened,
Speaker 3: how it happened.
Speaker 1: After two days of on the record interviews with police,
Speaker 1: Yolanda now says that she to Forrest and Ardregis, her
Speaker 1: friend Latanya, along with OMR Berry and quint Tess Wilson.
Speaker 1: We're all there at the Crown Sterling Suites when Deputy
Speaker 1: Hardy was killed. But all five people she places at
Speaker 1: the hotel deny being there. The officer who interviews Latanya Henderson,
Speaker 1: confronts her with Yolanda's latest story.
Speaker 4: So what she's saying she was there and I was there.
Speaker 4: That's a lie.
Speaker 8: Okay, that's a lie.
Speaker 4: That's a shame.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: So Yolanda's line she surely lives, Okay. So y'all never
Speaker 4: went to Crown Sterling. Y'all w I went to super eight.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 5: I don't know Crown stir lives.
Speaker 8: Okay, if Crown stirring myself eight, No, well then I
Speaker 8: didn't go, and I'm telling truth.
Speaker 1: Police also confront to Forrest with Yolanda's story.
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying. Everything that I did, I
Speaker 4: explained it to you exactly. Everything you sup to the Crown.
Speaker 4: We take a trip down. Yeah, she took a trip
Speaker 4: to the Crown up so he did.
Speaker 3: Yes, you did.
Speaker 5: Don't so I didn't go to the ground.
Speaker 4: I hope you into the.
Speaker 8: Crown ipe crown still sweet, No, sir, I ain't been
Speaker 8: to the Crown stairs, and I've been over.
Speaker 4: As un as he got you.
Speaker 1: They interrogate him for over two and a half hours.
Speaker 1: No matter what to Forrest says, or how many times
Speaker 1: he states plainly that he was not there and does
Speaker 1: not know anything about the murder, investigators don't believe him.
Speaker 4: How about given me some of the information that you
Speaker 4: just have a hard time giving me.
Speaker 5: I'll say, I give you everything that I know about
Speaker 5: two the night. I don't know anything else. I can't
Speaker 5: make myself chieving it, and I don't know. I told
Speaker 5: you all that I that's all I know.
Speaker 4: That's see.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 4: All i'mna do is I'm just getting fucked.
Speaker 5: Is I'm gonna getting I'm money getting fucked.
Speaker 4: I don't know who getting that name.
Speaker 5: I ain't get that man.
Speaker 4: I give you all that I know, Zoe, I can't
Speaker 4: give you nothing. I don't think you give us all
Speaker 4: that you know.
Speaker 5: I'm trying to give you all the information that I know.
Speaker 4: Oh, Murch, I'll give you. I don't do anything.
Speaker 2: I'm just a way.
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying. But you do, You're gonna
Speaker 5: make me said I.
Speaker 10: Did I did not do it.
Speaker 5: I was not deaf.
Speaker 1: From this point on, detectives rely on Yolanda to build
Speaker 1: their narrative about the murder. They'll go on to interview
Speaker 1: her over and over again, at least twenty five times,
Speaker 1: and every time they talk to her, her story will change.
Speaker 1: So why did continue to lean on this fifteen year
Speaker 1: old girl even though they caught her in so many lives?
Speaker 1: And who is Yolanda Chambers? That's next time? Ear Witness
Speaker 1: is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association
Speaker 1: with Signal Company Number One. Executive producers are Jason Flamm,
Speaker 1: Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and me Beth Shelburne. The investigative
Speaker 1: reporting for this series was done by Me and MARAA McNamara.
Speaker 1: Producers are MARAA McNamara, Hannah Bial and Jackie Polly. Kara
Speaker 1: Kornhaber is our senior producer. Brit Spangler is our sound designer.
Speaker 1: Additional story editing from Marie Sutton, fact check help from
Speaker 1: Catherine Newhan, and special thanks to to Forrest Johnson's legal
Speaker 1: defense team. You can follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook,
Speaker 1: and Twitter at Lava for Good. To see behind the
Speaker 1: scenes content from our investigation, visit Lava for Good dot
Speaker 1: com slash ear witness