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Speaker 1: Last time on ear Witness, I.

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Speaker 2: Have my mind spirit for Cross told you I have

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Speaker 2: a pit.

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Speaker 1: What appears to be a.

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Speaker 2: Jumped the comedy police officer shot in the back of

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Speaker 2: our building.

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Speaker 3: He hit that movie.

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Speaker 2: He has been shot.

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Speaker 4: Looks it looks too bad.

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Speaker 5: And then I just heard one say that's it. It's old.

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Speaker 5: We can't do anymore.

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Speaker 4: It's old. We can't save it.

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Speaker 5: He's gone. Tavarra Johnson. I remember he was pushing Adrika's

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Speaker 5: forward in a wheelchair. They came together.

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Speaker 6: I had saw too far.

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Speaker 5: I was pushing a Drinka's in the club. I just

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Speaker 5: sat two signs up and I left.

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Speaker 3: And and he was still there.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, he was when I left.

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Speaker 3: A defuity shareer working another deputy shares murder. Do you

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Speaker 3: think that was emotional? Yes, it was very and had

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Speaker 3: it been my decision the day we caught the people

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Speaker 3: that did it, let's put them on death throat.

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Speaker 1: The murder of Deputy Bill Hardy behind the Crown Sterling

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Speaker 1: Sweets Hotel was the top news story in Birmingham on

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Speaker 1: July nineteenth, nineteen ninety five.

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Speaker 3: And plays are looking for a cop killer. Someone shot

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Speaker 3: forty nine year old William Hardy several times in the year.

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Speaker 3: Slow start, but investigators are throwing everything they have behind

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Speaker 3: the caves.

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Speaker 1: The TV news footage shows deputies wearing the traditional black

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Speaker 1: band over their badges, a gesture that expresses for a

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Speaker 1: fellow officer.

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Speaker 3: We'll somber, we'll say it, but we know we have

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Speaker 3: a job to do, and we're determined to.

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Speaker 2: Do that job.

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Speaker 7: This is a very difficult night for William Hardy's family.

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Speaker 8: The Hardy home is full of sorrow and pain as

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Speaker 8: they search for asss to a senseless crime.

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Speaker 1: A week after the murder, hundreds of people turn out

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Speaker 1: for Deputy Hardy's funeral.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, my brothers, Thank you, my brothers.

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Speaker 1: Video footage of the funeral shows women in dresses fanning themselves.

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Speaker 1: It's summer in Alabama, a swampy ninety seven degrees. Someone

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Speaker 1: actually faints in the heat.

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Speaker 2: We are still by that.

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Speaker 8: We all have to do what Bill has already done.

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Speaker 1: The church is packed, but at least one longtime colleague

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Speaker 1: of Hardy's isn't at the service.

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Speaker 5: I didn't make the funeral. We worked this case so hard,

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Speaker 5: and we were so determined to get a resolution. I

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Speaker 5: was working. I didn't make his.

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Speaker 1: Feel Tony Richardson is the lead detective on the case.

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Speaker 1: A prosecutor who used to work with Richardson tells me

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Speaker 1: he's a thorough investigator, a man who gets the job done.

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Speaker 1: But this case is different from any other he's worked before.

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Speaker 1: He's investigating the murder of someone he knows, someone he likes,

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Speaker 1: someone he worked with for almost two decades.

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Speaker 3: When you got a deafor shriff killed over here, it's

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Speaker 3: high profile and people are expecting things out here, not

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Speaker 3: only you. You know, you emotional. You want to find

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Speaker 3: the people who did this. You want somebody in custom.

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Speaker 1: In the immediate hours after Deputy Hardy's murder, Detective Tony

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Speaker 1: Richardson and his investigators interviewed Marshal Kelly Cummings, the Keebler

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Speaker 1: cookie guy who heard the shots and saw someone drive away.

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Speaker 1: They also interview the front desk clerk at the hotel,

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Speaker 1: Barry Rushikov, and other people staying at the Crown Sterling

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Speaker 1: Suites who heard voices in the parking lot followed by gunshots.

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Speaker 1: No one they talked to says they actually saw the murder.

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Speaker 1: Just a few witnesses heard the gunshots and then saw

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Speaker 1: a car pull away. The lead evidence technician who's actually

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Speaker 1: Tony Richardson's brother, Deputy Charlie Richardson, finds two nine millimeters

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Speaker 1: shell casings at the scene. A ballistics expert will later

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Speaker 1: say that both casings came from the same gun, and

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Speaker 1: that's pretty much all they have to go on. Police

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Speaker 1: sweep the surrounding area and pull over any vehicle's loosely

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Speaker 1: matching descriptions from hotel guests, but it doesn't get them

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Speaker 1: very far.

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Speaker 3: Not only do you want somebody in custody. The lieutenant

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Speaker 3: is telling me, we need to get this done. The

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Speaker 3: captain is telling the lieutenant, we need to get this done.

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Speaker 3: The sheriff, you're telling the captain, we need to.

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Speaker 5: Get this done.

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Speaker 1: Nine hours after Hardy is killed, the Sheriff's department announces

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Speaker 1: a reward for information. The reward amount would eventually grow

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Speaker 1: to twenty thousand dollars adjusted for inflation, that's about forty

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Speaker 1: grand today. And once a tip line is announced, the

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Speaker 1: phone start ringing. One caller says a guy known as

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Speaker 1: Big Man told him his cousin was involved. Another says

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Speaker 1: a member of the Disciples gang carried out the murder.

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Speaker 1: Officers sift through this information trying to decipher what's worth

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Speaker 1: pursuing and which callers might be pranks, are people just

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Speaker 1: interested in the rear ward money. Days go by and

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Speaker 1: they still don't have a suspect. And then Detective Richardson

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Speaker 1: speaks to a woman named Rosa Hardy, and what she

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Speaker 1: tells him eclipses every other lead he has.

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Speaker 5: And she told me, she says, my daughter knows who

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Speaker 5: killed Bill.

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Speaker 1: I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness chapter two.

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Speaker 3: Don't know Diddley, anybody that was not there when I

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Speaker 3: was there, anybody that was not there when Harry was shot.

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Speaker 5: Don't know deadily about this case.

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Speaker 1: When I first got the enormous trove of records in

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Speaker 1: the investigative file, I spent hours and hours just staring

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Speaker 1: at my computer, overwhelmed by thousands of pages of documents.

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Speaker 1: Right away I knew I wanted to talk to Tony Richardson,

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Speaker 1: the lead investigator in Hardy's murder. His name is on

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Speaker 1: most of the police reports, and it's his voice we

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Speaker 1: hear on a lot of the interrogation tapes.

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Speaker 7: Sorry of Tony vision, Jeff, we got a Shuran service.

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Speaker 1: Today's data is when I first call him. For an interview.

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Speaker 1: He says it would be best not to talk with me,

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Speaker 1: but Richardson keeps talking for twenty five minutes. It seems

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Speaker 1: like he's got a lot on his mind. Two weeks later,

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Speaker 1: he agrees to go on the record.

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Speaker 2: Listen.

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Speaker 3: I've decided I'm going to speak with you concerning your podcast.

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Speaker 1: Great, I'm really glad to hear that. My producer Mara,

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Speaker 1: and I meet him in a conference room of a

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Speaker 1: local library.

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Speaker 2: Okay, how are you.

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Speaker 1: I'm Beth Tony.

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Speaker 4: This is Maura.

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Speaker 8: Nice to be too.

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Speaker 1: He's dressed casually, jeans, a black sweatshirt, a US Marines

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Speaker 1: ball cap, and a toothpick he keeps in his mouth

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Speaker 1: the entire interview.

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Speaker 5: Somebody when they hear this, they're going to be questioning.

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Speaker 3: My integrity. You know, is this guy telling the truth for?

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Speaker 3: Is he just telling the story? So I'll talk to

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Speaker 3: you to the NSKY.

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Speaker 1: When Detective Tony Richardson first gets that tip from Rosa Hardy,

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Speaker 1: he goes over to the Ford dealership where she works

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Speaker 1: as a receptionist.

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Speaker 5: I was always pretty thorough.

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Speaker 1: I wrote everything down, He writes in a report that

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Speaker 1: Rosa Hardy told an officer that her daughter had information

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Speaker 1: concerning the crime. The police report reads, Miss Hardy told

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Speaker 1: us that after she arrived for work at twelve noon

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Speaker 1: of seven nineteen, she heard a police officer had been killed.

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Speaker 1: She bought a newspaper and learned the victim was someone

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Speaker 1: she and her family knew personally. Rosa knew Deputy Hardy

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Speaker 1: and his wife. They have the same last name, but

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Speaker 1: they're not related. They were good friends. The report goes

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Speaker 1: on to say that Rosa's daughter, Yolanda Chambers, called her

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Speaker 1: at work. Rosa told her that the officer that had

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Speaker 1: been killed was Bill Hardy. According to Rosa, her daughter

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Speaker 1: Yolanda responded, Mama, I didn't know it was him, And

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Speaker 1: then Yolanda went on to say she knew who killed him.

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Speaker 5: She says, my daughter knows who killed Bill. Well great will.

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Speaker 5: She talked to me, I don't know. She kind of reluctant.

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Speaker 5: She don't want to do it.

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to get her to do it, and I

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Speaker 3: was just begging her, you know, let's figure out a

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Speaker 3: way to get her in.

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Speaker 4: We need her.

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Speaker 1: But Rosa isn't sure where Yolanda is.

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Speaker 3: I think at the time, Yolanda was a semi runaway

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Speaker 3: or whatever, but she wasn't there, okay, So we worked

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Speaker 3: very hard with Mom to get Yolanda in.

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Speaker 1: Later that evening, Rosa calls the Sheriff's office and says,

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Speaker 1: Yolanda is at her apartment, and that's where Richardson picks

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Speaker 1: her up. He brings Yolanda to Sheriff's headquarters for questioning.

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Speaker 7: Charlton, Tony rich and Jeffson Kuint of Shriff's Office. Today's

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Speaker 7: date is July twenty fourth, nineteen ninety five. The time

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Speaker 7: it's eleven twenty pm. I'm at the Sheriff's Office headquarters

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Speaker 7: along with Officer James Branton at the Birmingham Police Department

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Speaker 7: and Yolanda Michelle Chambers. Yolanda is a black female. She's

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Speaker 7: fifteen years of age. Again, what I want to talk

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Speaker 7: to you.

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Speaker 1: About is Yolanda is by herself in a room with

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Speaker 1: detectives and a tape recorder.

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Speaker 7: So I guess the best way for us to proceed

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Speaker 7: is for you to tell me. First of all, when

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Speaker 7: you learn that w Hardy had been killed?

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Speaker 6: All right, if I'm not mistaken, it was a Friday,

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Speaker 6: Me and one of my girlfriends, say he named Latanya.

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Speaker 6: Me and her and two guys are supposed to hook

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Speaker 6: cup that night. Yeah, you know they're older than us.

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Speaker 6: One is twenty one.

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Speaker 2: They call him Dre. He's in a wheelchair.

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Speaker 1: Dre is Ur Dregas Ford's nickname, and for some reason

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Speaker 1: in this interview, Yolanda refers to to Forest as Carlos

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Speaker 1: and he.

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Speaker 6: Has a brother named Carlos. So we you know, we

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Speaker 6: were supposed to hook up, you know, after they left Teeves.

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Speaker 1: To Forest and Ardregas are not related, and to Forest's

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Speaker 1: nickname has never been Carlos. It's unclear why Yolanda refers

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Speaker 1: to him this way, but she tells police that ar

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Speaker 1: Dregas called her around two am. He and to Forrest

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Speaker 1: had left Tea's place and were on their way to

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Speaker 1: pick her up.

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Speaker 2: You know they'd be on time.

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Speaker 6: They call it around about two or three, you know,

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Speaker 6: be like come on.

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Speaker 1: Ardregas asks Yolanda to bring along a friend for to Forest.

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Speaker 1: So after they pick up Yolanda, they all drive to

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Speaker 1: pick up her friend, Latanya Henderson, who lives a few

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Speaker 1: minutes away. I want to take a moment to address

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Speaker 1: the age gap between to Forest, Ardregas and the girls

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Speaker 1: they're picking up to Forest is twenty two, Ardregas is

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Speaker 1: twenty one, Latania is sixteen, and Yolanda is fifteen. To

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Speaker 1: Forest and Ardregas met Yolanda and Latania at a night

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Speaker 1: club two nights prior to picking them up after teas.

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Speaker 1: It's likely that the girls lied about their age to

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Speaker 1: get into the club where they met. But I don't

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Speaker 1: know if to Forest and Ardregas knew how old they were.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know if it came up. The age

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Speaker 1: of consent in Alabama is sixteen. But regardless, guys in

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Speaker 1: their early twenties picking up teenage girls. It's just problematic.

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Speaker 6: Him and Carlos came down and we went all hand

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Speaker 6: to was in dear park Pelataia.

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Speaker 1: Yolanda says that once they get to Latanya's house, it

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Speaker 1: takes a while for Latanya to get ready.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, going out and tell you about it. For

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Speaker 6: forty minutes to get ready, take our bathroostuf because she

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Speaker 6: didn't have on no clothes.

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Speaker 1: Latanya finally sneaks out of her bedroom window to meet them.

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Speaker 1: Once the girls are in the car, Yolanda says that

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Speaker 1: something is off and our Dregas seems nervous.

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Speaker 6: You know and all like what's wronging wrong? Why we

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Speaker 6: didn't got to get fill the wrong? We don't either,

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Speaker 6: you know, it goes o injur chill out. So you know,

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Speaker 6: we were riding around, you know, we're telling hill a

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Speaker 6: man and it is smoked a cop.

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Speaker 1: According to Yolanda or Dragas says, the other guy in

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Speaker 1: the car with them, to Forrest had smoked a cop.

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Speaker 6: You know who got their life playing y'all got us

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Speaker 6: in the cortown y'all and did from did a crime.

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Speaker 1: Somehow. This revelation that to Forrest and Ardregis were supposedly

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Speaker 1: just involved in the murder of a police officer doesn't

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Speaker 1: deter their plans.

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Speaker 7: She says.

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00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,120
Speaker 1: The four of them drive off to look for a

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Speaker 1: hotel room.

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Speaker 6: We rode around in Hollywood usbid went to the Fat

237
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Speaker 6: fear hand, but.

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Speaker 1: She says, the Fairfield end was booked solid and so

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Speaker 1: they head across the street to the Super eight motel.

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Speaker 6: So when we went light cross to the suba eighth ahole,

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Speaker 6: lot of cops came from knowing sheriffs and everything that

242
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Speaker 6: came and I'll you know, and hated everybody to get

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Speaker 6: at the car.

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Speaker 1: It's there and the Super eight parking lot. That officers

245
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Speaker 1: tell the group they're investigating the murder of a deputy

246
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Speaker 1: who was shot and killed earlier that night a few

247
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Speaker 1: miles away at the Crown Sterling Suitets Hotel. Remember, officers

248
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Speaker 1: were on the lookout for cars in the vicinity of

249
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,080
Speaker 1: the crime scene, and this is why they pull in

250
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 1: behind the Monte Carlo in the Super eight parking lot.

251
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 1: One of the officers later testifies that he tried to

252
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 1: extract ar Dregis from the car before learning that he's paralyzed.

253
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,920
Speaker 1: The officer makes to Forest get out of the car,

254
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,160
Speaker 1: put his hands on the trunk while he pats him down,

255
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,800
Speaker 1: then looks inside the Monte Carlo with his flashlight. He

256
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 1: finds nothing suspicious and decides to let everyone go except

257
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,280
Speaker 1: to Forest because he has a misdemeanor warrant for driving

258
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 1: without a license, so police take to Forest to the

259
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 1: Birmingham City Jail and he bonds out later that afternoon. Meanwhile,

260
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Speaker 1: Ardregas's license is expired, so police won't let him drive home,

261
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 1: and he leaves the Monte Carlo in the Super eight

262
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,040
Speaker 1: parking lot. He and the girls get a cab to

263
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Speaker 1: go home and Yolanda crashes at a friend's house. She

264
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,960
Speaker 1: says she calls her mom later that morning, how god

265
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Speaker 1: my mom is?

266
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,280
Speaker 2: Next morning, she say, guess at being as big.

267
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,920
Speaker 1: That click, it's the sound of an officer turning the

268
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Speaker 1: tape recorder off. We don't know what's being said between

269
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,879
Speaker 1: Yolanda and investigators when the tape is stopped, but Yolanda's

270
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,680
Speaker 1: first interview isn't over. The tape starts rolling again.

271
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Speaker 6: Okay, go ahead, Yeah, I'll tell my mom a bide

272
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 6: and she can see Landa, you know her the police

273
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Speaker 6: house that got killed last night.

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Speaker 2: I'm right here.

275
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Speaker 7: Okay, let me stop you again, okay, because I want

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00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:45,760
Speaker 7: to make sure that we get it on the record.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,280
Speaker 7: You have already mentioned in your statement that this was

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Speaker 7: a Friday.

280
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,879
Speaker 6: It was a Tuesday, because that's when they had a

281
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:58,640
Speaker 6: happy hour. It was going on with her Wednesday morning,

282
00:17:58,800 --> 00:17:59,639
Speaker 6: round back food.

283
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,240
Speaker 1: Yolanda says that Carlos, remember, that's what she's calling to.

284
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,840
Speaker 1: Forrest told her the time that he shot Deputy Hardy.

285
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:15,880
Speaker 6: But if they had worn bout twelve right now, twelve thirty, Carlos.

286
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,040
Speaker 1: And then Yolanda suggests a potential motive. She says, Deputy

287
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,560
Speaker 1: Hardy had arrested to forrest before, and that's why he

288
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 1: supposedly shot him.

289
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,240
Speaker 6: No, because I think we are arrested him a found before, Carlos.

290
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:33,399
Speaker 5: You go where you're arrested him at?

291
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,880
Speaker 2: I think it has only the way he went to parison.

292
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,600
Speaker 1: An officer turns the tape recorder off for a second time.

293
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,600
Speaker 1: When the tape resumes, Yolanda offers a different motive for

294
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,639
Speaker 1: Hardy's murder now. She says they killed him after an

295
00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:01,399
Speaker 1: attempted robbery, and since Hardy had seen their faces, it

296
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:02,919
Speaker 1: just made sense to kill him.

297
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,639
Speaker 2: Got a mo things former do with kill him.

298
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,600
Speaker 1: In the last minutes of the interview, detectives ask Yolanda

299
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 1: why Ardregis and Carlos had gone to the Crown Sterling Suites,

300
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 1: and she says they wanted to get a room because

301
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,920
Speaker 1: they sell drugs. They ask her if she knows anybody

302
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,680
Speaker 1: else these guys run with. Yolanda points to the photos

303
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,199
Speaker 1: of two other men and a stack that police show her.

304
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,920
Speaker 1: You hear Richardson say she has identified Omar Berry and

305
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:38,160
Speaker 1: Quintez Wilson.

306
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 4: Quinte is Wilson. This guy you look at, you know him?

307
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 7: As what okay, that's the photograph of Omar Berry.

308
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: These two other young black men are added to their

309
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 1: list of suspects. This first recorded interview lasts about thirty

310
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 1: five minutes, and right at the end, an officer asks

311
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 1: Yolanda if anyone has made promises to her.

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00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 4: They promises to you by the statements you just made.

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00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:07,639
Speaker 3: No.

314
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:11,080
Speaker 2: Vin.

315
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 1: She answers no. Then we hear her say the only

316
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 1: thing y'all gonna and then there's seven long seconds of silence.

317
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 7: It's Charlie Richardson. This is going to conclude this interview

318
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 7: at this time eleven PM.

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00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 1: I listened to this interview over and over again, and

320
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 1: what stands out is that each time officers stop and

321
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 1: then restart the tape, there's a shift in Yolanda's story.

322
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,879
Speaker 1: At first, first she says it was a Friday that

323
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 1: she heard about Hardy's murder. Then, after the tape stops

324
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: and restarts, Richardson prompts her for the date, and she

325
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 1: corrects herself and says it was a Tuesday night going

326
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 1: into Wednesday. With every restart of the tape, Richardson gets

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00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 1: a story that lines up more and more with the

328
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 1: facts surrounding Hardy's murder, that he was shot on Wednesday

329
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: morning behind the Crown Sterling at twelve fifty am. And

330
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 1: then there's the motives. Yolanda provides first that to Forest

331
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 1: killed Hardy because Hardy had arrested him previously. But we

332
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 1: know Hardy had not arrested to Forrest at the time

333
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: of his death. Hardy worked in court services. His duties

334
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 1: involved serving subpoenas and directing traffic outside the courthouse. I've

335
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: seen zero evidence that Deputy Hardy ever came into contact

336
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 1: with four Worst Johnson. After the tape stops and restarts,

337
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 1: Yolanda gives a second motive that the crime started as

338
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: an attempted robbery that ends in Hardy's murder. I asked

339
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: Tony Richardson about his approach with Yolanda.

340
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 5: Yolanda was reluctant. She didn't want to talk, she didn't

341
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 5: want We had to keep.

342
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 3: Better and we had to pull like polenty, you know, Yolanda,

343
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,400
Speaker 3: we need this and sometimes we'd have to be stern,

344
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 3: you know, infirm, trying to shake her. You know, sometime

345
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 3: we'd have to be soft, whatever will work to get

346
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 3: this information out of her.

347
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 1: There are a lot of stops and starts, and I

348
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: wonder what is going on? Then like the tape stops

349
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: and then it restarts. I could do you when you

350
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: go off the record with people, I mean, what what

351
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:56,959
Speaker 1: is best practices?

352
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 4: For best practice?

353
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 5: If not is not to go off the record, that's

354
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 5: the best practice.

355
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 3: I mean, once you cut the tape on, unless the

356
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 3: tape runs out and you changing the tape, you don't

357
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 3: cut it off until you're done. There's no way I

358
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 3: can tell you why the tape stopped, but I will

359
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 3: tell you this. It didn't stop so something sinister could happen.

360
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 5: I can tell you that.

361
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 3: What would do you do off the record though? I

362
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 3: mean somebody could have wanted to go to the bathroom,

363
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 3: or could have just motioned for a break, or or.

364
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 5: Could have even motioned to say, cut that thing off.

365
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 3: You know, there's no way I can tell you why

366
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 3: it was cut off. I can tell you there's nothing

367
00:23:54,840 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 3: sinister here. I mean, there's no smoking gun here as

368
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: far as doing anything that was not above board. Never

369
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 3: never occurred, never happened, never happened.

370
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 9: It was early in the morning and I was just

371
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 9: lounging around in my apartment, you know, and I had

372
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 9: my front door was open, and where I was sitting,

373
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 9: I could see out the door and here I see

374
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 9: just cars one Marco.

375
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 1: In July of nineteen ninety five, to Forrest and his

376
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: cousin Antonio Green were living together. But on the morning

377
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: of the twenty fifth, Antonio is alone in their apartment

378
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: when police cars pull out.

379
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 9: Oh there, So I see him pulling up in the front,

380
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 9: lock in the bag, and I'm like, oh, what's going

381
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 9: on over here? You know, next thing I know, they're

382
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 9: in my daughter and their acts was to far As

383
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 9: Johnson there I said, no, it's no, he's been staying here.

384
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 9: But while he asking me this, they've already came in

385
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 9: bought both doors, so they're already in my house. They're

386
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 9: going down the hallway. So I'm thinking, nah, this must

387
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 9: be something serious, you know, whatever it is.

388
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: So this guy's telling me what officers say they're looking

389
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: for to Forest because they think he might know something

390
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: about a.

391
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 9: Murder something or when they said murder, that really just

392
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 9: threw me all the way to the left, because violent.

393
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 9: He wasn't never violent, you know, rambunks his teenager, young

394
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 9: kid doing what all of us were doing, and far

395
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 9: As a partying and having a good time and all this,

396
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 9: but violence never.

397
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 4: He was never a violent person.

398
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: As officers walk through Antonio's house, his phone rings. It's

399
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: his grandfather and he says police are at his house too.

400
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: Antonio hangs up and the phone rings again, ring again.

401
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 4: I answered it, and it's him.

402
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 5: It's the Freest.

403
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 4: I said, hey, man, where you head?

404
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 5: He said, I'm headed up there now.

405
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 4: I said, yeah, it's folks looking for you airways.

406
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's what I heard. I don't know what they want,

407
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 9: but I'm finna go and see now. I'm going up

408
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 9: dead house now and see what they want.

409
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 10: So he did.

410
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: To Forest tells his cousin he has no idea why

411
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: police want to talk to him, but he goes to

412
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: meet with them at his grandfather's house.

413
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 9: Father's house and I heard him over the radio say

414
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 9: we got him in custody.

415
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 4: And only then would they lead house.

416
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: Police take to Forest to Sheriff's office headquarters for questioning.

417
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: On the morning of July twenty fifth, the day after

418
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: they first talked to Yolanda Chambers, Detective Tony Richardson and

419
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: his partner Tom Salter asked to Forrest to walk them

420
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: through the evening of July eighteenth, the hours leading up

421
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: to Deputy Harty's murder.

422
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 4: I suppose you're doing it five o'clock and even proud

423
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 4: little again well who who?

424
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: To Forrest says that around five pm he was getting

425
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: his haircut at a neighborhood spot called gas World Park

426
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: gas Station Park, barbershop and nail salon part convenience store. Afterwards,

427
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: he met up with his little brother at his mom's

428
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: apartment complex.

429
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 4: He was hanging out outside.

430
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 7: I think, yeah, we'd be outside of there on the

431
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 7: little park or around.

432
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 5: Walking is something to do. Any they to do is

433
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 5: try to.

434
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: Fire, something to do, trying to find something to do

435
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: when there's nothing to do. As to Forrest tells this

436
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: to police, he has no way of knowing that he's

437
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: describing one of his last few days of freedom.

438
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 4: So you guys might take you home because you're hungry.

439
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 4: What'd you fix a blown sand?

440
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: Yes, he fries himself a Bolognian cheese sand which, play

441
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: Sega and listens to the radio.

442
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 4: See, I think I stayed at home the Draga's game.

443
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 4: I think I stayed there. Came feed me in.

444
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: He stays there and tell his friend ar dregas Ford

445
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: picks him up in his nineteen seventy one black Monte

446
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: Carlo to go to Tea's place. While police asked to

447
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: Forrest about the night Hearty was killed. Others are out

448
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: looking for ar Dregas Ford. They knock on the door

449
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: of his mom's house. Here's Joyce Ford.

450
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 10: Three o'clock that morning, I'll stayed at Central Park. Somebody

451
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 10: knocked on the door and I said, who is it?

452
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 10: And they said Jefferson, count of sheriff Man. So I

453
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 10: looked out the window. They were everywhere. I opened the

454
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 10: door and I was kind of nervous, and they said,

455
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 10: is Draga's Ford home?

456
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 5: I said no.

457
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 10: Then they said what can we come in? I said,

458
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 10: I don't have anything to have. You welcome to come in,

459
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 10: but do you have a search one? And they said no.

460
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 10: I said, well you can't come in. They said, well,

461
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 10: we have some questions to asks and can you bring

462
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 10: him in when he get home?

463
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 5: And I told him.

464
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 10: When he got home, I told him what happened and

465
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 10: he said, yeah, Ma, I'd be glad to go.

466
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: So Joyce drives our Dregas to the Sheriff's office headquarters

467
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: on the morning of July twenty sixth detectives Richardson and

468
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: Salter ask him what he was up to on the

469
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: night of the murder. Richardson asks him what time he

470
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: picked up to Forrest.

471
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 4: First time you saw him tubes.

472
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 7: It was about ten o'clock at night.

473
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: But team about team once they get to tease or

474
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: Dragas says, his beeper is going off all night. It's

475
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: Yolanda Chambers.

476
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 4: Should have been paid, but I want to call her.

477
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,239
Speaker 1: But he had just met her the previous Sunday at

478
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: another nightclub called the Jaguar. In separate interviews, both to

479
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: Forrest and Ardregas tell detectives they hung out at teas

480
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: until past one am, catching up with old friends like

481
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: Mama Cat and Queasy.

482
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 9: Right there, we were fucking with that girl, Mama Kid

483
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 9: were out telling you about Mamma.

484
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 4: Caedd and Queasy.

485
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: But after they strike out at the club, Ardregas says

486
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: he finally calls Yolanda around two thirty am, so I

487
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: call her told I will come get Ardregas says, he

488
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: and too Forrest pick up Yolanda and then head to

489
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: her friend Latanya's house, and just like Yolanda told police,

490
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: He also says that Latanya doesn't come out to meet

491
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: them right away. He remembers this clearly because it was

492
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: kind of annoying to go wow, to come out.

493
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 5: At daytime or night. You know, ain't got time to

494
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 5: be waiting a more bad.

495
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: Detectives also bring Latanya Henderson in for questioning. She talks

496
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: to a female officer without a parent or lawyer present,

497
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: and she says the same thing, so, Yolanda, and then picked.

498
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 6: You up around three o'clock my time again, caland three

499
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 6: and third o'clock am.

500
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 5: In a moment it.

501
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: All four of them say. They leave Latanya's house and

502
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: try to get a room.

503
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 4: I see when we pulled up at the fair viaa.

504
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 5: We went to Fairfield first to put them in a

505
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 5: fair Field.

506
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: Just like Yolanda says. They tell police that the Fairfield

507
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: Inn is booked, so they head to the Super eight Motel.

508
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: This is where officers stopped them as part of their

509
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: sweep of cars across Homewood. At this point, ardregis to forrest. Latania,

510
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: and Yolanda have all independently described similar versions of the

511
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: night to detectives, with one huge exception. No one in

512
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: the car says they know anything about Deputy Hardy murder

513
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: except Yolanda.

514
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 7: Today David July twenty sixth, nineteen ninety five. At the

515
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 7: time is twelve thirty seven, two.

516
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: Days after her first recorded interview with police, Yolanda Chambers

517
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: is back in for questioning. At first, Yolanda tells a

518
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: similar story to her first interview that she heard Ardregis

519
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: say that to Forrest killed a cop.

520
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 4: Did you say anything?

521
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: Is now?

522
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: The tape recorder is turned off. Forty minutes later, they

523
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: start recording again, bes.

524
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 7: Sharton Richard and I'm uh restarting to uh to take

525
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 7: the time is uh twenty minutes to two, and we

526
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 7: took a short break. Uh we gonna get started again.

527
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: You're learn to uh.

528
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 7: During our break time, Uh, we talked something about the

529
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 7: the incident of.

530
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 5: The for the case.

531
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 7: Now, I was gonna ask you, now what you have

532
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 7: already told me during the times that I have interviewed you,

533
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 7: is that the truth? No, it's not the truth. No,

534
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 7: did any that you told me?

535
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 5: Did any of that occur?

536
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 2: Can occur, but it was not nothing that I had occurred. Mkay.

537
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 7: So are you telling me that you didn't get this

538
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 7: second hand that when this deputy was shot and killed

539
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 7: that you were there.

540
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 2: M No, I didn't get it taking hand how Then.

541
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: She says she was actually there when Hardy was shot,

542
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 1: and she's about to tell detectives a completely different version

543
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: of what happened that night.

544
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 7: Okay, tell me about that.

545
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 2: Well, when I told you that they were supposed to

546
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 2: come get me around back, he be given me by

547
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 2: eleventh thirty, They did come and give me. As the

548
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 2: act for five.

549
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: Yolanda now says that to Forrest and Rodregaz came to

550
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: pick her up around eleven thirty pm instead of two am.

551
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 2: You know, pafter they came and got new women gat

552
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: her crying you were you were ready? Yuh huh women?

553
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: You mean brought right out right on now?

554
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 4: Okay.

555
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: Yolanda says that Latanya hops right into the car instead

556
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: of taking a long time to get ready.

557
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 7: Did you know at the time y'all we're going?

558
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, where were you doing?

559
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 4: Okay? So did y'all go to the crass there?

560
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 2: Yeah? We went, we went.

561
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: She now says they left Latanya's house and went straight

562
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: to the Crown Sterling Suite's hotel.

563
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 4: And what time do you think you got there?

564
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 2: A little astafoya because Draga's drive pad.

565
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 4: So.

566
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: Yolanda names an arrival time that fits neatly with Hardy's murder,

567
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: which was around twelve to fifty am, and then she

568
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: says that our Dregas and de Forrest we're meeting up

569
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: with some guys at the hotel to do a drug deal, okay.

570
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 4: And where did y'all call.

571
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 2: On the SAD Now on the SAD for the south

572
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 2: right cross from where the bank.

573
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: Is, she says they pull up on the side of

574
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: the hotel, across from another car that flashes its lights

575
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: at them. Inside that car, Yolanda says she sees three

576
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: people and two of them are the guys she previously

577
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: identified in photos that police showed her, Omar Barry and

578
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: Quintez Wilson. Yolanda says that Omar and Quintez walk over

579
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: to Ardregas's car and to Forrest gets out to join them. Yolanda, Latanya,

580
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: and Ardregas stay in the car, and Yolanda says this

581
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 1: is when she sees Deputy Bill Hardy walk around the

582
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 1: side of the building. In the final six minutes of

583
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: this recording, Yolanda tells a disjointed version of events. She

584
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: says Deputy Hardy meets up with this group of men

585
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: in the parking lot and they huddle up, then all

586
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: walk toward the front entrance of the hotel. She says

587
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: they're gone for thirty to forty minutes, when to Forrest,

588
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: who she calls Carlos jogs back to the cars, Carlo.

589
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: Jumping for the man who on this gold is gold.

590
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 9: It's cold going to start, you do now.

591
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: Up until this point, Yolanda has not mentioned Hardy's murder.

592
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 7: Okay, Now, you mentioned to me that you heard what

593
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 7: you thought was three shots.

594
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 2: But when we heard it, we were like, we know

595
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 2: what it was. We didn't know what was going on.

596
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 1: This is the first time there's any mention on tape

597
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: that Yolanda heard gunshots. She confirms it after Tony Richardson

598
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: brings it up.

599
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 7: So you heard those shots before he ever ran back

600
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 7: to the show when they will call in their long

601
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 7: period of time.

602
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 4: Okay.

603
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: This version of events does not line up with what

604
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: Richardson knows about the crime. Hardy was murdered at the

605
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: back entrance of the hotel, not the side near the

606
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: bank where Yolanda says they were parked, and definitely not

607
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: the front of the hotel. Where she claims this group

608
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: of men disappeared with Hardy.

609
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: This is what you're telling me, now, this is the

610
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: honest for guy truth.

611
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 7: Okay, why did you tell me from the all that

612
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 7: you were But I was scared.

613
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 2: I didn't know what it was.

614
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 6: Clams who I just think I went to Okay, I

615
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 6: just want to I sause I knew of about it.

616
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 6: You know, I didn't wanted to let you know that

617
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 6: I have some information about it, but I don't want

618
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 6: you out to know how they're the age of pass.

619
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 1: The recorder is turned off yet again for almost an hour.

620
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: When the tape starts up again, Sergeant Salter asks the questions, Ms.

621
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 8: Chambers, we need to clarify something about where y'all were

622
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 8: parked at at the Crown Sterling Suites, and it's my

623
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 8: understanding that y'all drove in to the parking lot to

624
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:47,439
Speaker 8: the back door.

625
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 4: Is that correct?

626
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 2: Correct?

627
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: Yolanda now agrees that they were parked at the back

628
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: of the hotel where Hardy was shot. There's no discussion

629
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: on tape about why this detailed chained changed, and then

630
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: her story changes again. She says she didn't just hear

631
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: the shots. She says she sees Deputy Hardy falling to

632
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: the ground right after he shot.

633
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 2: I heard the first shot, and then I looked over.

634
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 2: He had already fail. You were falling.

635
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 8: He was falling when you saw him. Who was standing

636
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 8: in front of him? When you saw him falling?

637
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: It was a little Carlo.

638
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 4: Did you see a gun.

639
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 5: At the bad time?

640
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 4: You didn't? Did you hear another shot?

641
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: I heard? I heard three shots.

642
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 4: You heard three shots?

643
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: Okay?

644
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 4: Then what happened?

645
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: And then.

646
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 4: A running who started running all over him? Okay.

647
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: Sergeant Salter then prompts her to talk about what she

648
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,959
Speaker 1: sees when to Forrest gets back into Ardregus's money.

649
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 8: Carlo, did he have anything on his hand that you

650
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 8: told me?

651
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 4: Did you think he was hurt?

652
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: Yeah?

653
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 4: Did you see how he got the blood on his hands?

654
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 2: No, I've just seen the blood. I don't put it

655
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 2: on me.

656
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: Yolanda chambers statement to police has gone from hearing Ardrega

657
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: say his buddy smoked a cop to actually being at

658
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: the Crown Sterling Suites wind shots were fired and seeing

659
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: blood dripping off to Forrest's hands.

660
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 5: Did I believe everything Lena told me?

661
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: No?

662
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 3: Hell no, hell no. But Yolanda told a lot of truth.

663
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: Why she was trying to hide it by telling lovels?

664
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: Why do you think she told a lot of truth?

665
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,320
Speaker 1: Like what convinced you that some of what she was

666
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 1: telling you was truth and some wasn't?

667
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 3: You know? Police officers through their gnahge investigative skills, history.

668
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 5: You know, they know how to put things together.

669
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 3: So I started talking to you, but I already know

670
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 3: in my mind before you ever started talking, what happened,

671
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 3: how it happened.

672
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: After two days of on the record interviews with police,

673
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 1: Yolanda now says that she to Forrest and Ardregis, her

674
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: friend Latanya, along with OMR Berry and quint Tess Wilson.

675
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: We're all there at the Crown Sterling Suites when Deputy

676
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: Hardy was killed. But all five people she places at

677
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: the hotel deny being there. The officer who interviews Latanya Henderson,

678
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: confronts her with Yolanda's latest story.

679
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 4: So what she's saying she was there and I was there.

680
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 4: That's a lie.

681
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 8: Okay, that's a lie.

682
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 4: That's a shame.

683
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: Okay.

684
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 4: So Yolanda's line she surely lives, Okay. So y'all never

685
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 4: went to Crown Sterling. Y'all w I went to super eight.

686
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 4: That's it.

687
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 5: I don't know Crown stir lives.

688
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 8: Okay, if Crown stirring myself eight, No, well then I

689
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,760
Speaker 8: didn't go, and I'm telling truth.

690
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: Police also confront to Forrest with Yolanda's story.

691
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying. Everything that I did, I

692
00:42:53,840 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 4: explained it to you exactly. Everything you sup to the Crown.

693
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 4: We take a trip down. Yeah, she took a trip

694
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 4: to the Crown up so he did.

695
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 3: Yes, you did.

696
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 5: Don't so I didn't go to the ground.

697
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 4: I hope you into the.

698
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 8: Crown ipe crown still sweet, No, sir, I ain't been

699
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 8: to the Crown stairs, and I've been over.

700
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 4: As un as he got you.

701
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: They interrogate him for over two and a half hours.

702
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: No matter what to Forrest says, or how many times

703
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: he states plainly that he was not there and does

704
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: not know anything about the murder, investigators don't believe him.

705
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 4: How about given me some of the information that you

706
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 4: just have a hard time giving me.

707
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 5: I'll say, I give you everything that I know about

708
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 5: two the night. I don't know anything else. I can't

709
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 5: make myself chieving it, and I don't know. I told

710
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 5: you all that I that's all I know.

711
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 4: That's see.

712
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 1: Now.

713
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 4: All i'mna do is I'm just getting fucked.

714
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 5: Is I'm gonna getting I'm money getting fucked.

715
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 4: I don't know who getting that name.

716
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 5: I ain't get that man.

717
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 4: I give you all that I know, Zoe, I can't

718
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 4: give you nothing. I don't think you give us all

719
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 4: that you know.

720
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 5: I'm trying to give you all the information that I know.

721
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 4: Oh, Murch, I'll give you. I don't do anything.

722
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: I'm just a way.

723
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying. But you do, You're gonna

724
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 5: make me said I.

725
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 10: Did I did not do it.

726
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 5: I was not deaf.

727
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: From this point on, detectives rely on Yolanda to build

728
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: their narrative about the murder. They'll go on to interview

729
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: her over and over again, at least twenty five times,

730
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: and every time they talk to her, her story will change.

731
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: So why did continue to lean on this fifteen year

732
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: old girl even though they caught her in so many lives?

733
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 1: And who is Yolanda Chambers? That's next time? Ear Witness

734
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association

735
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 1: with Signal Company Number One. Executive producers are Jason Flamm,

736
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:34,919
Speaker 1: Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and me Beth Shelburne. The investigative

737
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: reporting for this series was done by Me and MARAA McNamara.

738
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: Producers are MARAA McNamara, Hannah Bial and Jackie Polly. Kara

739
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: Kornhaber is our senior producer. Brit Spangler is our sound designer.

740
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: Additional story editing from Marie Sutton, fact check help from

741
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: Catherine Newhan, and special thanks to to Forrest Johnson's legal

742
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: defense team. You can follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook,

743
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: and Twitter at Lava for Good. To see behind the

744
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: scenes content from our investigation, visit Lava for Good dot

745
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: com slash ear witness