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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, look at the time. It's behind the

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Speaker 2: Bastards forty five. It's actually two eleven PM, otherwise known

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Speaker 2: as eight am in the morning for me, because I

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Speaker 2: let my sleep schedule get disastrously disordered and it is

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Speaker 2: slowly destroying me and my life. But you know who

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Speaker 2: it's not destroying is our wonderful guest for these episodes,

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Speaker 2: Cowpen col How are you doing.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing well. I was gonna make a joke about

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Speaker 3: just perpetually being awake, but I had no I had

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Speaker 3: no good punchline. I'm good. I am awake, more of

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Speaker 3: a more of a morning person, but very excited to

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Speaker 3: be here.

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Speaker 4: I was.

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Speaker 3: I was just telling you in the before we came on,

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Speaker 3: what a fin I am and so especially remember, can

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Speaker 3: we talk about Sylvia's voice. Sorry, I'm just jumping the.

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Speaker 2: Gun and we'll be hearing more of it, don't you

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Speaker 2: wear Okay, Okay, yeah, but no, I'm excited to be here,

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Speaker 2: so thank you for thank you for having me. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: let's put a pick, because I do want I do

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Speaker 2: want to hear what you have to say about her voice.

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Speaker 2: But let's give the listeners like a minute or two

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Speaker 2: of it, which they're going to get in a minute,

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Speaker 2: and then we can really we'll have something to sink

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Speaker 2: our collective teeth into.

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Speaker 1: We'll dive in. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, in case you're coming into part two of this

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Speaker 2: episode like a maniac, we're talking about Sylvia Brown, who

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Speaker 2: is not named Sylvia Brown yet because she hasn't married

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Speaker 2: the guy that she takes the last name from, but

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Speaker 2: we're gonna call her Sylvia Brown anyway for the sake

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Speaker 2: of making this simpler. She is a psychic who has

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Speaker 2: found out that if you have are sick or Diana War,

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Speaker 2: that's because you chose to do that in a past life.

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Speaker 2: She's gotten out of her first marriage to an abusive cop.

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Speaker 2: She's moved to California. She has started a psychic foundation

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Speaker 2: where she is working to create her own new religion.

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Speaker 2: So by nineteen seventy five, things are really starting to

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Speaker 2: come together for Sylvia. She's getting more and more famous.

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Speaker 2: She's getting paid to speak at events by local organizations

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Speaker 2: in southern California. And usually what this means is like

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Speaker 2: an Elks club or something well like entertainment, and they'll

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Speaker 2: channel her right, or she'll channel Francine right, so she'll

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Speaker 2: she'll bring in and they'll get to ask Francine questions

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Speaker 2: about aliens or the other side or whatnot. Right, Like

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Speaker 2: it's a game pick, you know, yeah, it could be fun.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: This isn't evil. This is just a hoot. It's it's

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Speaker 2: the stuff that comes later that gets to be evil.

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Speaker 2: This is also the period where she claims she starts

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Speaker 2: working as a pro bono consultant for cops and quote

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Speaker 2: several medical and psychiatric professionals that she knew. Now, this

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Speaker 2: is one thing that's interesting to me about this book.

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Speaker 2: It tells you what a different era Sylvia came from.

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Speaker 2: Where she has to reiterate several times, I never tell

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Speaker 2: anyone to come to me first. I'm always only brought

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Speaker 2: in if they've already consulted a medical professional or already

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Speaker 2: talked to the police and that didn't work. I'm just

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Speaker 2: there to help if they've already tried traditional methods. Never

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Speaker 2: go to a psychic before you go to a doctor,

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Speaker 2: which is like a responsible thing to say, and she

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Speaker 2: would absolutely not be saying if she were like doing

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Speaker 2: this grift today. Right like today you can just do

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Speaker 2: away with doctors altogether. It's just interesting to me how

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Speaker 2: even back in her day, you had to be like, obviously,

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Speaker 2: go to a doctor first. It's kind of a even

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Speaker 2: the psychics just doctors less than they used to.

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Speaker 3: My question about this is why not go to you first?

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Speaker 3: Like the cost both in the actual what you're paying

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Speaker 3: the doctor and the time you got to take off work.

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Speaker 3: And if she's so great and you can solve something

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Speaker 3: in twenty seconds, why would we not go to you first.

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Speaker 2: I you know, logically, you're right, it does make no sense.

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Speaker 2: If she's a legitimate psychic, she shouldn't be saying that, right.

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Speaker 2: I think it's just that that was too much, Like

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Speaker 2: it was too crazy to tell people to do that.

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Speaker 2: In the eighties. People have been like, you tell people

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Speaker 2: not to go to the doctor. That's fucked up, right, Oh,

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, I think the disinfo ecosystem has just advanced

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Speaker 2: so much now. But you're right, like, if she's a

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Speaker 2: real psychic, you would want to go to her before

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Speaker 2: a doctor, because doctors fuck up all the time, and

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Speaker 2: God doesn't, right, Like the spirit will know where your humor? Yeah, right,

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Speaker 2: So yeah, she's she's consulting and whatnot with all sorts

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Speaker 2: of agencies. So she claims and she also starts to

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Speaker 2: show up on television. Right this is when the beginning

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Speaker 2: of her TV career starts, and she gets asked to

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Speaker 2: come to San Francisco, where she will for the next decade,

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Speaker 2: like almost twenty years, will be a semi regular guest

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Speaker 2: on the local TV show People Are Talking. This is

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Speaker 2: like a San Francisco like local access show or something

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Speaker 2: like that. And finding episodes of local TV shows from

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Speaker 2: the seventies is very hard. There's a ton of lost

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Speaker 2: media for that era, which is actually really unfortunate, Like

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Speaker 2: there's it's a there are efforts to archive a lot

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Speaker 2: of that stuff that I'm very supportive of because it's

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Speaker 2: a serious problem. That's so much of very important America

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Speaker 2: like culture has been lost from that era. So I

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Speaker 2: can't show you her appearances on People Are Talking from

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Speaker 2: the seventies. I just haven't found any. But I did

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Speaker 2: find a nineteen ninety one episode of People Are Talking

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Speaker 2: with Sylvia Brown, and I think it's fair to assume

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Speaker 2: that this is similar to the stuff she would have

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Speaker 2: been doing in the seventies. In the eighties, so we're

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Speaker 2: still in the seventies. I'm going to play this clip

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Speaker 2: from the nineties because I want you guys to get

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Speaker 2: an understanding of like what her TV appearances are like

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Speaker 2: in the early stage of her career, right, I hope

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Speaker 2: that makes some sense.

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Speaker 3: And this was this is twenty years into her doing

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Speaker 3: this show.

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Speaker 2: She's she's well, she starts in like the late seventies.

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Speaker 2: She's been doing it for like a dec a little

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Speaker 2: over a decade. She'll be on the show off and

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Speaker 2: on I think for like twenty years. Right, this is

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Speaker 2: about a decade into her run something like that. And

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Speaker 2: before you ask, since this is from nineteen ninety one, yes,

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Speaker 2: if you can't see, all of the women in this

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Speaker 2: clip are wearing it thick shoulder pads and everyone's hair

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Speaker 2: looks terrible, just terrible, terrible hair.

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Speaker 1: The age of big earrings as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love the whale eye ball ear rings.

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Speaker 2: It's beautiful. Yeah, Sylvia looks incredible. She's got, as Kal said,

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Speaker 2: earrings that looked like whale eve rouse. So the episode

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Speaker 2: starts with a very low stake story, right, some guy

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Speaker 2: wanted to buy Sylvia is talking about a thing that

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Speaker 2: had happened previously where some guy paid her to consult

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Speaker 2: because he was going to buy an apartment with his wife,

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Speaker 2: and he wasn't sure about it, so he asked Sylvia

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Speaker 2: it was a good idea, and she said, no, don't

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Speaker 2: buy the apartment. It's a horrible idea. And then sometime

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Speaker 2: later that guy's wife calls in and leaves a voice

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Speaker 2: message thanking Sylvia for telling them not to buy the

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Speaker 2: apartment because of what had happened in it. And here's

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Speaker 2: that voicemail. And by the way, I do think the

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Speaker 2: person leaving the voicemail is intoxicated, but you can make

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Speaker 2: your own opinions up on that.

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Speaker 4: People that know me. I really don't beat around the

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Speaker 4: bush that much. I probably was a little bit nicer

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Speaker 4: than that, truthfully, but I said it's a bad idea,

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Speaker 4: it's negative. There's something wrong with it. I feel all

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Speaker 4: kinds of negative energy around it. And I came on

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Speaker 4: very strong about it.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 6: He then called our producer Kathy Churmmel and left a

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Speaker 6: message on her answering machine, and this is the message

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Speaker 6: he left after he talked to Sylvia.

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Speaker 5: It's Terry, It's I can see it thirty your time.

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Speaker 5: I just wanted to tell you that the apartment that

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Speaker 5: Eric Clapton's kids fell out of the window I don't

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Speaker 5: know if you've heard he was killed the apartment that Billy,

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Speaker 5: you know and I have been looking at forever that

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Speaker 5: he just lost today that someone else bought. So Billy

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Speaker 5: calls and says, maybe your psychic's right after all, because

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Speaker 5: your psychic said there are major problems with that apartment.

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Speaker 5: So for what it's worth, he's a big believer again

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Speaker 5: in your psychic. Can you believe that anyway? I thought

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Speaker 5: you'd want to know.

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Speaker 3: Isn't that something?

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Speaker 1: Wow?

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Speaker 2: First off, I do think that lady's struck. But second,

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Speaker 2: that's a true story. Eric Clapton's son did die falling

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Speaker 2: out of a window in a New York City apartment building.

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Speaker 2: That's what she's claiming is that, like the apartment they

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Speaker 2: were going to buy was in the building that Eric

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Speaker 2: Clapton's sun fell out of, which, like I mean, first,

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Speaker 2: that's a tragedy obviously it's horrible, but also doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: that anything was wrong with his apartment. He wasn't buying

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Speaker 2: Eric Clapton's apartment, and the child didn't die because the

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Speaker 2: apartment was bad. The window was left open while it

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Speaker 2: was being cleaned, and the kid hadn't realized and he

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Speaker 2: like ran towards what he thought was a closed plateglass

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Speaker 2: window to like put his face against it or something,

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Speaker 2: and he fell over the side. Like it's a really

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Speaker 2: sad story. But again, there's nothing wrong with the apartment,

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Speaker 2: Like they wouldn't have died falling out of the apartment window. Right,

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Speaker 2: It's like again, whatever, it's just there's this And I

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Speaker 2: have no idea at this point how much of this

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Speaker 2: is even manufactured, Like if that was like an completely

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Speaker 2: faked story because Eric Clapton's son dying was so in

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Speaker 2: the news. Oh, it's kind of unclear to me the producers.

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Speaker 3: Would they fact check calls that came in. We don't know.

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Speaker 2: No, No, I don't know that they would. But also,

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Speaker 2: this is like a show like it's about entertainment, they're not, yeah, purport,

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Speaker 2: So I don't actually know what's going on here. That said,

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Speaker 2: as we established last episode, Sylvia has a history of

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Speaker 2: deciding homes are cursed and not wanting to.

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Speaker 5: Be in them.

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Speaker 2: So I can believe this just happened to be the

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Speaker 2: same apartment Eric Clapton lived in. Right, So the next

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Speaker 2: question here they go to break and when they come back,

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Speaker 2: the hosts note that they're having weird electrical issues with

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Speaker 2: the broadcast, which always seems to happen when Sylvia comes

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Speaker 2: by and she's like, oh, every time I'm on TV,

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Speaker 2: there's electrical issues somewhere. You know. It's the spirits. The

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Speaker 2: ghosts mess with the equipment. The recording in the video

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Speaker 2: looks pretty clear to me from recording from nineteen ninety one,

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Speaker 2: but who knows. Next, they take questions from the audience,

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Speaker 2: so she's being asked, now, this is a series of

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Speaker 2: questions about celebrity marriages and celebrities trying to have kids

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Speaker 2: and whether or not their relationships work out, and she

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Speaker 2: gets a couple right. She's first asked if Maury Povich

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Speaker 2: and Connie Chung are going to have a child together,

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Speaker 2: and she says no, which we will call partially correct.

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Speaker 2: The couple had fertility issues and we're not able to

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Speaker 2: conceive together, But they did adopt a child not long

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Speaker 2: after this broadcast, so partially we'll give her like a

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Speaker 2: half score on that one. Right after that, they ask

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Speaker 2: about Bruce Willis and Demi Moore's second child. Now, she

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Speaker 2: does correctly predict that their second child will be a daughter,

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Speaker 2: which is like a fifty to fifty guess, but okay,

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Speaker 2: we'll give her that one, right, she's right about this.

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Speaker 2: The next one she's asked about is Roseanne bar and

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Speaker 2: Tom Arnold, and they were at the time attempting to

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Speaker 2: have a child through artificial insemination, and she goes on

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Speaker 2: a real rant here. Her whole mood changes because she

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Speaker 2: thinks God hates artificial insemination. I can't think of anything worse.

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Speaker 2: She is so angry at the fact that they are

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Speaker 2: getting having artificial incemination. And there's also some weird like

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Speaker 2: fat shaving parts of it too, because when they talk

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Speaker 2: about do you think they'll have a kid? Like, the

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Speaker 2: audience starts to laugh as they show pictures of Tom

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Speaker 2: Arnold and Roseanne Barr, and I think they're just like

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Speaker 2: laughing at the fact that they're like heavier people, right,

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Speaker 2: Like it's shitty, it's kind of gross. But I guess

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Speaker 2: TV in nineteen ninety one. So the last questions he

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Speaker 2: asks about and it is weird to me that she's

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Speaker 2: so negative about IVF. But the next question we get

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Speaker 2: to is my favorite, because she's asked about Tom Cruise

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Speaker 2: and Nicole Kidman, who had recently gotten together in nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety one. And she's asked, like, is this relationship going

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Speaker 2: to last? And here's what she says.

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Speaker 6: How about Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman.

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Speaker 4: They're job, they're cute, and I think that they're fun

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Speaker 4: for each other. And I think they're going to make it.

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Speaker 4: And I'll tell you why, because she's a real strong woman,

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Speaker 4: and I think he needs a strong woman. And I

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Speaker 4: think that's why it's going to be good, because she's

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Speaker 4: got the strength. Because he's got that sort of charming

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Speaker 4: little boy way about him. He really does. And I

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Speaker 4: think she's good for him, and I think she'll whip

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Speaker 4: him into.

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Speaker 2: Line that one did not correct. Yeah, they got divorced

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and one, siting and reconcilable differences. You know,

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Speaker 2: when you look at this what you're seeing here, First off,

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Speaker 2: this is a great situation to be a TV psych again,

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Speaker 2: because it's a bunch of fifty to fifty guesses, right, sure,

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Speaker 2: and your accuracy is pretty good. First off, if you're

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Speaker 2: being asked, will these celebrities who are already famous for

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Speaker 2: having a tumultuous relationship, which was the case with a

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Speaker 2: lot of these relationships, she's asked her, they're going to

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Speaker 2: stay together? It's a pretty good bet to be like, well,

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Speaker 2: probably not right because like they're already having a bunch

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Speaker 2: of problems. Also the same thing with like they've had

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Speaker 2: one daughter, do you think their next child will be

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Speaker 2: a daughter? Fifty to fifty shot, pretty easy guess to

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Speaker 2: get it right. But in nineteen ninety one, Krus and

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Speaker 2: Kidman had just gotten married. They had not had any

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Speaker 2: sort there wasn't anything in the media about the relationship

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Speaker 2: having like problems yet right every all the press about

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Speaker 2: them was positive. So Sylvia guessed that they were going

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Speaker 2: to last, like she's not. It just really makes the

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Speaker 2: case of what she's doing here. She can get it

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Speaker 2: right when it's kind of a thing anyone could guess, well,

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Speaker 2: but when there's less to go on, she's going to

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Speaker 2: be wrong because she's just she's just blindly guessing.

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Speaker 3: You know, yes, this is it's such a fifty to fifty.

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Speaker 3: It's a fifty to fifty and you hate I.

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Speaker 2: Via right, and yeah, you're really against the itef artificial dissemination.

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Speaker 2: God hates it anyway. This episode is from the early nineties,

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Speaker 2: but she's doing this stuff like this by like from

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Speaker 2: the late seventies up through the eighties, and so we

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Speaker 2: can safely assume a lot of her TV appearances during

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Speaker 2: that period are kind of similar to this, and she's

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Speaker 2: she's a good performer for what that show is, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: she's that's why they keep bringing her on. She does

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Speaker 2: the job she's being brought on to do. Uh, And

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Speaker 2: the hosts of the show know what they're getting out

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Speaker 2: of her, right, and they're they're pretty smart about tailoring

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Speaker 2: because she likes to talk about metaphysics and aliens and

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Speaker 2: dead people. That's more heavy than you want on like

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Speaker 2: a daily time you about celebrity marriages and babies. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So this is kind of her at her most public

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Speaker 2: facing like media like like this is like the most

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Speaker 2: digestible Sylvia tends to get. She is a hit though.

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Speaker 2: She starts doing fairly well enough that she's able to

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Speaker 2: rent a larger office and start hiring employees to handle

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Speaker 2: her correspondence. She brings in two full time researchers for

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Speaker 2: the Neirvada Foundation and even an early computer system because

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Speaker 2: they're trying to map out all of the realities of

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Speaker 2: the other side, and you know, how they're ranking angels

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Speaker 2: and how angels work and trying to figure out the

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Speaker 2: science of all of this stuff that she believes. Sylvia

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Speaker 2: starts hosting regular hypnosis sessions and psychic readings and begins

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Speaker 2: advertising that she can help clients quit smoking, lose weight,

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Speaker 2: or fix their life in any number of ways. Sylvia

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Speaker 2: says that at first these sessions were just a way

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Speaker 2: for her to fund her foundation for psychic research. Quote

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Speaker 2: it never occurred to me that these hypnosis sessions would

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Speaker 2: contribute far more than money to the foundation and its

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Speaker 2: efforts to prove that the spirit survives death. So the

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Speaker 2: way these sessions prove that life exists after death is

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Speaker 2: that she starts having clients who start telling her about

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Speaker 2: their past lives. This begins with a guy named Frank,

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Speaker 2: who just he comes in because he wants to lose weight.

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Speaker 2: But when you know it, when she puts some down

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Speaker 2: and hypnotizes him, he starts talking about quote his life

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Speaker 2: in Egypt as a pyramid builder. We're gonna talk about

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Speaker 2: Frank the pyramids in a second, but before we continue

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Speaker 2: with Frank, we need to make a quick detour to

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Speaker 2: the history of past life aggression therapy. This starts like

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Speaker 2: the origins of this kind of shit, or in like

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Speaker 2: the end of the eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, you

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Speaker 2: get these occultists and scientists in London who are kind

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Speaker 2: of like like Sylvia says she's doing, they're trying to

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Speaker 2: they set up foundations to try to find evidence of

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Speaker 2: life after death. And it'll be a mix at this

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Speaker 2: point of like spiritualists and scientists, because they're not that

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Speaker 2: different in eighteen ninety, you know, like there's not a

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Speaker 2: real strong reason to be like, well, ghosts don't exist

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Speaker 2: based on the science of eighteen ninety. It's like an

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Speaker 2: arguable point really to a lot of scientists at that time,

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Speaker 2: as opposed to I mean, it's still an I guess

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Speaker 2: you could say an arguable point now, but a lot

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Speaker 2: of mainstream scientists are willing to explore the idea that

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Speaker 2: the maybe their spirits right, and maybe there's a way

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Speaker 2: that we can like like figure out science typically how

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Speaker 2: spirits work. That's very much in vogue at the time.

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Speaker 2: In the nineteen thirties, a researcher at Duke University tries

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Speaker 2: to systematically study the experiences of people with past lives

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Speaker 2: and start documenting them. And then in the mid nineteen fifties,

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Speaker 2: Maury Bernstein writes a book titled The Search for Britty Murphy.

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Speaker 2: This is a fiction book inspired by a real story

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Speaker 2: of a woman named Virginia Tie, an American lady who

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Speaker 2: came to believe she was the reincarnation of a nineteenth

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Speaker 2: century irishwoman. The book was made into a movie that

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Speaker 2: was fairly popular and this Obviously reincarnation is like a

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Speaker 2: major aspect of a number of world religions, but this

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Speaker 2: book helps popularize the idea in a secular sense for Westerners,

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Speaker 2: reincarnation not as part of an existent belief system, but

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Speaker 2: as something you can take all a caart and if

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Speaker 2: you're a Christian, you can stick it in your Christianity.

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Speaker 2: If you believe in psychic powers and something you know

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Speaker 2: weirder than that, if you're an occultist or a pagan

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Speaker 2: or a Wiccan, you can stick some Like Americans start

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Speaker 2: seeing reincarnation of something, I can just grab this, take

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Speaker 2: this out of the grab bag of world believes and

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Speaker 2: stick it into whatever I already believe.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: That kind of starts to really hit in the sixties

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Speaker 2: and seventies, and part is a result of this book.

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Speaker 2: So by the seventies you get a number of psychologists

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Speaker 2: and psychiatrists offering what they call past life regression services,

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Speaker 2: where they'll hypnotize or otherwise like put people down and

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Speaker 2: to try to bring up their past lives with the

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Speaker 2: idea that a lot of psychosomatic illnesses and ailments are

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Speaker 2: really caused by If your foot hurts a lot and

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Speaker 2: the scientists can't figure out why, the doctor can't figure

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Speaker 2: out why, it's probably because in the past life, you

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Speaker 2: like lost your leg to a mortar in World War

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Speaker 2: One or something like that, or got hit by a horse,

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Speaker 2: you know, back on the prairie in the cowboy days,

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Speaker 2: and so you got to if you can access that

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Speaker 2: past life, and that past life can explain what happened

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Speaker 2: to it, you can fix the ailment. That's the idea

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Speaker 2: that a lot of these people are going into in

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Speaker 2: the seventies, and in nineteen ninety one, the practice is

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Speaker 2: pretty close to it's the peak of its popularity in

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Speaker 2: the late eighties. So Sylvia is heading down very well

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Speaker 2: trod ground when she starts doing this question.

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Speaker 1: And I don't I don't know if you mentioned it

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Speaker 1: in part one. Do we know what kind of religion,

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Speaker 1: if any, she was raised with.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she's raised Catholic. She goes to a Catholic school

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Speaker 2: as a girl, and she respects it and she believes

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Speaker 2: in God, but she also has notes sure some.

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Speaker 1: Of the IVAN because some of the IVF stuff could

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Speaker 1: stem from that. Yeah, they're very anti IVF. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just interesting. I don't know, it's interesting to see

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Speaker 1: like some of the Catholicism bleed into her beliefs here.

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Speaker 2: You can even see it in the idea that like, well,

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Speaker 2: before we're born, were these fully sentient spirits that pick

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Speaker 2: out our entire lives right, Like you can just see

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Speaker 2: pieces of that there too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So back to Frank. This guy wants to lose weight

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Speaker 2: and then starts talking about his life as a pyramid builder.

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Speaker 2: What Sylvia puts him there? Fry Uh Yeah. Now, Sylvia

390
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Speaker 2: says that the way he talks about hit pyramid building

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Speaker 2: is quote so unremarkable and current to him that you

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Speaker 2: would have thought he'd stop to see me on his

393
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Speaker 2: lunch break and would be heading straight back to put

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Speaker 2: some finishing touches on King Tut's tomb. And this is

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Speaker 2: where I got to stop us for the first time,

396
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Speaker 2: because King Tut was not buried in a pyramid. King

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Speaker 2: Tut is buried underground simply simply not in a pyramid,

398
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Speaker 2: not at all in a pyramid, the opposite of a pyramid.

399
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Speaker 2: He's in kind of a basement.

400
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Speaker 3: Like now, she could have just picked the one that

401
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:27,879
Speaker 3: we've all heard of.

402
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 2: She could have just picked the one that that's exactly right,

403
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 2: that's exactly right now. I did want to look into

404
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 2: a couple of things to try to parse out the

405
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Speaker 2: actual history here, because hey, maybe maybe a pyramid builder

406
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Speaker 2: might also make tombs too, but that's also seems to

407
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Speaker 2: be unlikely because Tut died around in the thirteen hundred

408
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Speaker 2: s BC. Pyramid building kicks off in Egypt in the

409
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Speaker 2: twenty six hundreds BC, and it evolves over time, but

410
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Speaker 2: by the seventeen hundreds or so, the practice is in

411
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,200
Speaker 2: pretty steep decline in Egypt. One of the last significant

412
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Speaker 2: pyramids was built for the pharaoh Kinder somewhere around seventeen

413
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Speaker 2: sixty by the time King Tut died. Because of how

414
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 2: all of the pyramids keep getting burgled, Egyptian woryald here

415
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 2: being buried underground. So Frank's recollections of pyramid building don't

416
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Speaker 2: bear a lot of resemblance to what we know of

417
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Speaker 2: the practice. For one thing, When she asks him, how

418
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Speaker 2: did you build the pyramids, he says that we had

419
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Speaker 2: anti gravitational devices that we used in their construction, which

420
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Speaker 2: is not how pyramids were built. So he's definitely on

421
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Speaker 2: the we had like alien technology things. And at one

422
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Speaker 2: point when she's down, Sylvia says that Frank lapses into

423
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Speaker 2: what she first describes as a steady stream of fluent Martian.

424
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Speaker 2: She thinks it's Martian, and she records him talking. She says,

425
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Speaker 2: she does this with his permission, I hope so, and

426
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Speaker 2: she sends the tape to a psychology friend at Stanford

427
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 2: who calls her back and it's like, where did you

428
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Speaker 2: get this tape? And she's like, what do you mean?

429
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Speaker 2: This was just one of my patients. And he's like,

430
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Speaker 2: those nonsense syllables you said you heard that was a

431
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,120
Speaker 2: fluent monologue in an obscure seventh century BC, a Syrian

432
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 2: dialect that would have been common among pyramid builders. So

433
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 2: now I got to look into this. First off, the.

434
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 3: Research you had to do as you were reading this, geez.

435
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 2: You got do way more research to bust the line.

436
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,160
Speaker 1: Were you were you on a plane or mid Marti

437
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: Gras when this was happening too.

438
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm doing this during Marti Gras. Look at the cigarettes. Yeah,

439
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 2: because and the Assyrians did build ziggorots, which are different

440
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 2: from Egyptian pyramids, but close enough that I guess you

441
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 2: could call you call yourself a pyramid builder. However, there's

442
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,919
Speaker 2: not like a dialect of Assyrian. I found no evidence

443
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 2: that there was like a dialect that pyramid builders would

444
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 2: have used, because these were generally like public projects and

445
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,800
Speaker 2: also like you would have a lot of like artisans

446
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 2: who get brought into the work on these projects, but

447
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 2: they had other skills. There's not like a language that

448
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 2: the pyramid guys use.

449
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 3: Was there a citation of who at Stanford this person was?

450
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 2: No, no, no, she didn't even say a professor. She

451
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 2: just says a psychology friend. Also, I don't trust that

452
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,439
Speaker 2: you're a psychology friend at Stanford knows the how is he?

453
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,679
Speaker 2: Who's he doing? Is he playing it to the Assyrian guy?

454
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 2: I guess let's just take it.

455
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 3: Over to the This could be a little tighter of

456
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 3: a story, this story on her behalf. I have editorial

457
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 3: notes for her.

458
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you can zip this up a little bit tighter. Cylvia.

459
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 2: So the next several pages of her autobiography are just

460
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 2: like a list of past life regressions that she does,

461
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 2: and she all the different illnesses she cures by finding

462
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 2: out people's past lives. So, since this is working so well.

463
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 3: For a second of a question, does she ever mention?

464
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 3: I think one of the things I think is so

465
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 3: interesting when whatever I've read about things like this is that,

466
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 3: like almost nobody seems to break gender with their past lives.

467
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, like interesting, huh?

468
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 3: Is there any example of like one of her patients,

469
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, yes, when I was a he's a dude,

470
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 3: and he's like when I was a fourteen year old

471
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 3: girl back in Mollie. Is there any anybody ever, anybody

472
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,880
Speaker 3: in this book who breaks gender and her patients.

473
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 2: I haven't. I don't remember perfectly, but everyone I remember

474
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 2: their past lives are the same gender as their current life.

475
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 3: Oh interesting, Okay, Yeah.

476
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: Now what I will say cal that that did interest me.

477
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 2: About the past lives of her patients, A lot of

478
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 2: them were like commoners. Normally you get a lot of

479
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 2: past lives like oh, everybody was like a king. Huh,

480
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 2: everybody's like a great warrior. This guy's like I built

481
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 2: pyramids or whatever. It's just like a dude, a laborer.

482
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 2: And you actually do get a weird amount of that

483
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 2: with Sylvia's, which I kind of like, oh, that's an

484
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 2: interesting spin on the grift, Like a lot of is

485
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 2: you just like normal pastime jobs. Sylvia, however, does not

486
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 2: have normal past lives, because she starts interrogating her own

487
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 2: and she comes to the conclusion that quote, I'd once

488
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: been the most beautiful high priestess in all of Africa,

489
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: and that in a later life, I'd been the first

490
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 2: Eskimo to use shoelaces. Now, I don't know how much

491
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 2: debunking I need to do, Like Africa has never been

492
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: one political entity, like a priestess of what. There's a

493
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 2: bunch of religions that have exist on that continent, so

494
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: many of them over history, high priestess of what, most beautiful? Who,

495
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 2: who decided that, who voted on it? Like, and then

496
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 2: the whole thing about fucking shit. First off, Eskimo is

497
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: like a slur. It's a colonial slur that generally refers

498
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 2: to There's a couple of different groups of people that

499
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: it refers to, like the Inuit and the upiic, but

500
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 2: it's not a term that you would have used for yourself.

501
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: If that was your past life, you wouldn't call yourself

502
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 2: in the nineties. Even in the nineties, we knew that

503
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 2: uh I did look in to win these like those

504
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: different peoples had shoelace developed shoelaces just to.

505
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 3: See in your research, Yes, go.

506
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 2: On, I had, I had to know. I don't think

507
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: we don't know when shoelaces first came into being, but

508
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 2: the peoples who eventually wound like who like wound up

509
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 2: in that part of the world probably took shoelaces with

510
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 2: them because we've had the concept for very Oh see,

511
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 2: the ice man had shoelaces. And there's actually I think

512
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 2: the oldest shoelaces we've ever found were in our Menian

513
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 2: or someone buried in Armenia. I don't know if they

514
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: were Armenian her because people's move we had shoelaces. It's

515
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 2: a lot for a long time. I don't think there

516
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 2: was a first girl who was like, I've invented shoelaces.

517
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 3: I really enjoy that she in the section you just read,

518
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 3: must have smoked such a beautiful little bowl before she

519
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 3: penned those sentences. Right, She's like, and I had shoelaces,

520
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 3: and you're sitting here sober, just doing the research on

521
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 3: when shoelaces made it to Native Alaskan communities.

522
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, she kind of seems like they always had them.

523
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, is like.

524
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: I'm Helen of Troy, but with shoelaces.

525
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Okay, this has just researching this has given

526
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: me like a if anyone ever starts talking about past

527
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: lives to me, the first thing to ask is what

528
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 2: was your name? And then you just look up. Is

529
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: that a name those people had? Or is it a

530
00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: Greek name? Speaking of Greek? Our sponsors could be a Greek.

531
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 2: You don't know. Neither know why, we don't ask, and

532
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 2: we're back. So Sylvia claims that her relationship with law

533
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 2: enforcement began in the nineteen seventies, like her professional relationship,

534
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 2: but she doesn't give any detail. She doesn't talk about

535
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 2: cases solved, she doesn't say that I talk about specific interactions.

536
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: She just says that she'd been helping and you know,

537
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: the police valued her. But she gives us nothing else

538
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 2: to go on, and so we don't really get any

539
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: details about how she used her so called psychic powers

540
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 2: to help solve crimes. Until one day in nineteen ninety three,

541
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 2: her friend Ted Gunderson, who she describes as an FBI agent.

542
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: Keep that in mind, cal she calls Ted Gunderson, an

543
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: FBI agent, gives her a call. A rider truck filled

544
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 2: with explosives had just been detonated under the World Trade Center,

545
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 2: killing six people. And you know what happens a few

546
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 2: years later as a result of that, it's that attack

547
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: is the three World Trade Center bombing. And so Ted

548
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 2: Gunderson FBI called Sylvia and is like, we got we

549
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 2: need your help tracking down the terrorists who did this.

550
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: You know, the FBI can't do this without Sylvia. She writes, quote.

551
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 2: I'd worked with Ted on other cases, and my respect

552
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 2: for him wasn't as unparalleled. Whatever I could do to

553
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: help him, if I could help it all, no matter what.

554
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 2: All he had to do was ask By the time

555
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 2: he called me, I had read that three of the

556
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 2: Islamic terrorist bombers had been arrested, and Ted one of

557
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: my psychic input on any others who might be involved.

558
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: I told her there were five, maybe six men involved,

559
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 2: including the three in custody. Now I got to dig

560
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 2: into this cal because since and we'll talk about Ted

561
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 2: in a second, but since a total of six terrorists

562
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: were arrested, Sylvia Clem's victory. Right, I knew they were

563
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: going to be five or six. They arrested six. I'm right.

564
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 2: Look at how psychic I am. But that's not quite accurate.

565
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: That's not quite an accurate picture of how many people

566
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 2: were involved in making that bomb. Right, there were six

567
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 2: guys arrested, but there was a seventh person involved. One

568
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: of the government's key witnesses and they bring these guys

569
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: to trial was an FBI informant, former Egyptian Army officer,

570
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: Emad Salem. With the FBI's help and directions, Salem infiltrated

571
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: the group that bombed the World Trade Center, and he

572
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 2: built bombs for them and taught them how to build

573
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 2: bombs using bomb building techniques the FBI gave him. We

574
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 2: don't talk about this a lot, we probably should. It's

575
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 2: a pretty big fuck up.

576
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 5: Yep. Wow.

577
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 2: For an interview with him in history dot com, Ibrahim

578
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: Elga Brownie invited me and this is uh sorry, this

579
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 2: is Immad Salem talking about his time infiltrating this group.

580
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 2: Ibrahim Elga Brownie invited me into his house and blasted

581
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: the radio loud because he was thinking of the FBI

582
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: was monitoring his apartment, and he asked me, can you

583
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: build big bombs? I said, yes, I can. He asked,

584
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 2: what do you need to build big bombs? Because twelve

585
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: bombs he built twelve pipe bombs for these guys already

586
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: are not really making me happy. I wanted something big.

587
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: I said, I need a detonator, and then I gave

588
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: him some demands. So they switched gears from twelve small

589
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 2: pipe bombs and a big, massive bomb similar to the

590
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City bomb. So first, that's a mad the guy

591
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 2: the FBI sent in to this group saying, well, they

592
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 2: got the idea to do one big bomb because I

593
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 2: told them it would work better than twelve pipe bombs,

594
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 2: which already I would say if I'm a psychic, that

595
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: makes him involved in the creation of this bomb. Now

596
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 2: what happens next is a little unclear to me, but

597
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: per a nineteen ninety three New York Times article by

598
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: Ralph Blumenthal, it looks like the FBI found out that

599
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 2: there was a cell of terrorists in New York who

600
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: were working to build a bomb to attack the World

601
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: Trade Center. So they come up with an initial plan

602
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: to infiltrate a mad into the group and have him

603
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: get basically provide them with fake ingredients. So they're going

604
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 2: to build a real bomb, but the explosives inside it

605
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: are fake. So the mechanics of the bomb would be real,

606
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 2: but there'd be fake stuff inside of it, so the

607
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: bomb doesn't work when they set it off, and then

608
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 2: they arrest everybody. Right, that's how you'd think something like

609
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: this should go, right, if you're gonna do this. However,

610
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 2: that plan was called off at the last minute by

611
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 2: an FBI supervisor who had a different plan about how

612
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: to use mister Salem, and it's it's unclear what his

613
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: plans were. A lot of this is very murky because

614
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 2: it's the FBI. Lamb may have had a feud with

615
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: his supervisor. Ultimately he's pulled off the case, and when

616
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: he's not in the group, they succeed in finishing the

617
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: bomb that he'd helped them start building, and they detonated

618
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 2: in the World Trade Center. It is unclear how much

619
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: Silim actually helped them and how much of the how

620
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: much of what the bomb they used he had had

621
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: a hand and we really don't know, but the evidence

622
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 2: we have does suggest that he helped them figure out

623
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 2: some aspects of bomb making. Either way, Sylvia's psychic powers

624
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: gave her no hint that this guy existed whatsoever. For

625
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: her part, Sylvia takes a lot of pride in the

626
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 2: fact that during her recorded interview, which is a real interview,

627
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,239
Speaker 2: she told her friend agent Gunderson, quote, one of the

628
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 2: men you need to and I'm doing the psychic hand

629
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: thing here. If you can't see one of the men

630
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 2: you need to look for has a short build, wiry

631
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: black hair, black eyebrows. There's an M on there, an S, S,

632
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 2: A l Z E M something, salzeon, Salzemon Mon, okay, Salzemon,

633
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: And she predicts one of the men is named Salzamon. Now,

634
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: one of the men who had already been arrested at

635
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 2: that point was named Mohammed A Salama, which isn't really

636
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: all that similar to Salzemon. They start with an S,

637
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: otherwise very different names. I would say, you got it wrong.

638
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: It's like I'm going to have a guest for a podcast.

639
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: I'm reading a K. Kevin Calvin, Oh cow, I got

640
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: it right, perfect, Like, no, I didn't. I didn't foresee anything.

641
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 2: And this is cold reading, right, that's the technique she's using, right,

642
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 2: This is that's where it's a very old psychic frat.

643
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: You start with I'm hearing a and you start going

644
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: through a couple of different and someone of the adults

645
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: would be like, oh, I had an aunt who was

646
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 2: if you said m was Mary or my cousin Mike,

647
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 2: you know, and then you kind of you you zero

648
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: in from there and you kind of refine the grift

649
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: a little bit. This is cold reading. That's what she's doing.

650
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 2: In this interview, she writes about getting this wrong, no

651
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 2: doubt about it. I was off by a few letters.

652
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 2: But when Ted told me they had arrested someone named Saloma,

653
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 2: it was this close enough that I screamed, you got him.

654
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 2: Obviously she accomplished nothing at all, but she carts this

655
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: around as a he was they had him in custody.

656
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 2: When she's interviewed, she doesn't do shit. Oh that said,

657
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: I need to point out here it's not accurate for

658
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 2: her to say you got him to Ted Gunderson because

659
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 2: and here's the fun part. Ted Gunderson wasn't an FBI

660
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: agent in nineteen ninety three, and had nothing to do

661
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: with arresting the men who bombed the World Trades It.

662
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: Ted, Yeah, who was he?

663
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: The fuck is this guy?

664
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 2: This is a great question. Ted Gunderson was a retired

665
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: FBI agent at the time of the World Trade Center attacks.

666
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 2: He'd had a successful career. He'd at one point run

667
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: the Los Angeles branch, like the branch is the wrong way,

668
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: but he run the LA FBI office, right. But in

669
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties he retired and he went into private practice,

670
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 2: where he became an insane crank. He becomes a major

671
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 2: figure in the Satanic panic. He's the guy doing the

672
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 2: McMartin preschool trial. He's the guy like digging up stuff

673
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 2: in the fucking yard of the McMartin preschool and making

674
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: public statements about I can tell from that children were

675
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: sacrificed here, babies were murdered. Right, He's that fucking lunaty right.

676
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: He is close gosh figure.

677
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 2: In American conspiracism, like Ted Gunderson, because he used to

678
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: be in the FBI, has all of this unearned credibility,

679
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 2: and so when he says stuff like that, oh, I've

680
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 2: seen a lot of satanic ritual abuse. I know there's

681
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 2: thousands of babies being trafficked for the devil in this country.

682
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: People trusted him, right, That's who fucking Ted Gunners it is.

683
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 2: She's not working with the FBI. She's working with a

684
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 2: crank who used to be in the FBI.

685
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 3: Wow's perfect, incredible school chef's kiss moment there.

686
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, what beautiful of.

687
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: All the ex FBI agents that had to be Darryl Ted.

688
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: I'll admit at first I took it at face value.

689
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, maybe the FBI brought her in for

690
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 2: an interview. They've done crazier things. And then I like,

691
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 2: I'm gonna look up Ted Gunderson just an oh for

692
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,919
Speaker 2: a little more on Ted. At a nineteen ninety five

693
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 2: conference in Dallas, he alleged that the New World Order

694
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 2: controlled the US government and was performing four thousand human

695
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 2: sacrifices in New York City every year. He also claimed

696
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: that the Oklahoma City bombing was carried out by the

697
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 2: US government to slander the far right. Later in life,

698
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 2: he wrote copiously about child slave labor in underground alien

699
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 2: controlled facilities. He's like, there's a white A big part

700
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: of QAnon is the belief that there's these underground like

701
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: evil military bases where the aliens are like sucking adrenochrome

702
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: out of kids heads. Ted Gunderson helped start all that,

703
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 2: Like he is a foundational figure in American conspiracism. So

704
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 2: that's good. Yeah, good that he She's working on this guy,

705
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: so whatever he thought.

706
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: They found each other question mark.

707
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's nice when two grifters do.

708
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 3: I want to know what her friendship was like outside

709
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 3: the interview? What did they just kick it and talk

710
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 3: about conspiracies or did they have a normal did they

711
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 3: just like have beers and play ping pong and it

712
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 3: wasn't weird?

713
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 2: Like that was the Yeah, what do you watch movies together?

714
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: Or do you just like sit alone together listening to

715
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 2: numbers stations or something like? What is your friendship with

716
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 2: Ted Gunderson look like? So Sylvia has a lot of

717
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 2: pride in her long history of collaboration with the FBI,

718
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 2: and you'll hear her bring it up in her book

719
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: and in most interviews where she talks about her work

720
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 2: with law enforcement. The Skeptical Inquirer actually filed a series

721
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 2: of requests for FBI files because they wanted to know

722
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 2: did she have any relationship with the bureau whatsoever did

723
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: she do anything for them and the FBI. The short

724
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: answer is no. The FBI has no record of her

725
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 2: ever helping any agent on any case. That doesn't mean

726
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: they had no record of her, though quote recently obtained

727
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 2: FBI files shatter her insinuation that she had a relationship

728
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: with them law enforcement and showed that the only interest

729
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: the agency had in Brown was investigating her for fraud.

730
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: So she was involved with the FBI, but not in

731
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: a good way.

732
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, Sylvia.

733
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 2: In her book, Sylvia claimed that the interview I quoted

734
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 2: from had been conducted by the FBI, but no FBI

735
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 2: record exists that she ever spoke with him about the

736
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 2: World Trade Center bombings. The Inquirer then filed a Foyer

737
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,919
Speaker 2: request for any documents or video the agency had about

738
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 2: Brown's interviews regarding the attack, and the BUEAU responded, we

739
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 2: conducted a search of the central record system. We were

740
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 2: unable to identify the main records responsive to FOYA. Ultimately,

741
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 2: the Inquirer concluded there is no documentation released by the

742
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 2: FBI to support the claim that Brown conducted any psychic

743
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: readings for the FBI, either directly or indirectly. Moreover, Gunderson's

744
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 2: name appears nowhere in her FBI file, and the topics

745
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,479
Speaker 2: in the FBI release do not discuss working with the FBI. Thus,

746
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 2: there is no evidence from the records that Brown was

747
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 2: involved with the agency that said. She has a criminal

748
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: record herself. There's a criminal complaint that get filed against

749
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 2: her in Santa Clara County, California, on May twenty sixth

750
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety two, and it alleges that Sylvia and

751
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 2: her husband at the time I think this is husband

752
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: number three, had been selling securities under false pretenses. And

753
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: this is really good. I want to quote from the

754
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: Santa Clair Chronicle here. Although telling a couple their twenty

755
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 2: thousand dollars investment was to be used for immediate operating costs,

756
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 2: the complaint stated the Browns transferred the money to an

757
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 2: account for the Nirvana Foundation for Psychic Research. Just one

758
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 2: month later, in April of the nineteen eighty eight, the

759
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 2: complaint stated, they declared bankruptcy in the venture. So the

760
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 2: idea is this is like a gold mine that they're

761
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 2: selling shares in basically, so it's like a securities fraud

762
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 2: scam and they're just taking the money and instead of

763
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: investing it into this mine, they're putting it directly into

764
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: the foundation and just robbing people per during the like

765
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: the pair's arraignment San Francisco or the chronical note in quote,

766
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: Sylvia Brown claimed to have strong psychic feelings that the

767
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 2: mind would pay off, but it doesn't. And she and

768
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 2: her husband Kinzil Dalzel Brown, and that's where she gets

769
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 2: the last name Brown, plead no contest to a felony

770
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 2: charge and are made to pay back their victims, right,

771
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: so they each get a year of probation and now

772
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: they're felons. So that's good. We got a little gold

773
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 2: con in here. You know, this is kind of a law.

774
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 2: She does a lot of conning of people in banks

775
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 2: to fund her foundation, which kind of I had just

776
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 2: said she was starting to see success, and that's how

777
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 2: she writes it. And most of the articles on her

778
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 2: will say that, like, yeah, in the seventies and eighties,

779
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 2: she builds a larger and larger business. The Skeptical Inquirer's

780
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 2: reporting makes it look like she probably wasn't ever very

781
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 2: successful prior to the late nineties. She's just stealing money

782
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 2: to fund her foundation. People aren't paying her for her

783
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 2: psychic She's a total fraud in that regard. Right, we'll

784
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 2: talk a little bit more that. I do want to

785
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 2: note Sylvia and Kensel are estranged at the time that

786
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 2: they get charged with felonies, but she keeps his name

787
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 2: and adds an E to it. I don't know why.

788
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 2: I just kind of think that's.

789
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: Funny, that's amazing.

790
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: So let's talk about those FBI files on Sylvia, about

791
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: her other financial fraud cases, because there's a lot of them.

792
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 2: The Bureau describes her as a self proclaimed psychic and

793
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: notes that they investigated her starting in the nineteen eighties

794
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 2: and the Irvana Foundation as well for violations of federal

795
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: law and applying for loans from FDIC institutions in the

796
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: amount of one point two five to three million dollars.

797
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: So she is getting more than a million dollars in

798
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: fake loans for her business. They know, well the loans

799
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: are real, but she's lying on her loan paperwork. They

800
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: note that her fraudulent advice also caused multiple businesses sustained losses,

801
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 2: So she's also getting money for the foundation by giving

802
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 2: business advice that's fraudulent. Most of what she's doing is

803
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: falsifying financial statements to enhance her net worth and lie

804
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 2: that she's worth two or three million dollars when she's

805
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: not worth anything close to that. To get these hundreds

806
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 2: of thousands of dollars and eventually well over a million

807
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: dollars in loans. The FBI notes that her loan proceeds

808
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 2: went to so an extravagant lifestyle, and they have her

809
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: dead to rights and don't prosecute because the US attorney

810
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: decides there's insufficient evidence of criminal intent. Basically, we know

811
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 2: she got all this money, and we know she lied

812
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 2: on our loan applications, but she may have believed the

813
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 2: business could work.

814
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 3: Oh gosh. This goes back to the feel like she

815
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 3: believes the things she's saying.

816
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 2: Right right, and apparently convinced a US attorney of that

817
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: as well. Wow, now, cal you know who never commits

818
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 2: financial crime?

819
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,240
Speaker 3: Kermit the Frog.

820
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 2: Well, that that is probably the case. I have trouble

821
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: imagining him getting away with it. Although she is fun.

822
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 2: It is fun to think of Kermit on the witness stand,

823
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 2: and something like reading back is like texts to miss

824
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 2: Piggy without investling money. Oh no, I can't do a

825
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 2: good Kermit voice.

826
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 1: Otherwise that was more Patrick Mahomes than Kermit, but.

827
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 2: Yeah it was. It was. Well, think about Kermit the

828
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: Frog as we go to ads, we're back call. Are

829
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 2: you familiar with a theory that Kermit caused nine to eleven?

830
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 3: No, but I'm here for it please.

831
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 2: Oh it's fucking crazy. So in the Muppet movie that

832
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: comes out in like two thousand and one, it's like

833
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 2: basically Muppet, it's a wonderful life where Kermit wonders like

834
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 2: what would happen if I'd never been born? And in

835
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: like the normal Muppet world before it's like New York

836
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: after nine eleven. Right, there's no Twin Towers, but in

837
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: the version when he like sees life if he'd never

838
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: been born, the Twin Towers are back. No, So something

839
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 2: about Kermit's life caused nine to eleven? No, why it's

840
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: fucking crazy?

841
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, all right, I got I'm a big

842
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 3: Muppets fan, so I need.

843
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 2: To go and I love it too. Yeah, Kermit, nine

844
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 2: to eleven should bring you most of what you need

845
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: to know.

846
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 3: There goes my weekend. Thanks.

847
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: So weirdly enough, it's only after her nineteen ninety three

848
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 2: no contest plead to a felony that Sylvia Brown gains

849
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 2: national fame and renown if you look at like and

850
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: what it looks like from what the skeptical inquirer uncovered

851
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,919
Speaker 2: is that she's kind of a middling psychic and most

852
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 2: of her money and the success comes from fraud until

853
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 2: she starts getting on real TV. She's on this local

854
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 2: channel for a while, but it's when she hits like

855
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 2: national television that she becomes a big deal. Now she

856
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: does continue. It's also weird to me. After her fraud conviction,

857
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 2: she keeps working with police departments. There are some who

858
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: hire her. In nineteen ninety seven, the Thibodau, Louisiana police

859
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 2: department pays her four hundred dollars to consult on the

860
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 2: murder of a priest. So this priest has been killed

861
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: and Sylvia is brought in. She tells the authorities the

862
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: priest was killed by a young mulatto homosexual who was

863
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 2: enraged by the priest's rejection of his advances. So basically

864
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 2: she blames it on a non white person who was

865
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 2: gay who hit on this priest and then murdered him

866
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 2: out of rage. And she said that someone with a

867
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: street name of King had had gang people do the murder,

868
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 2: which I'm sure is also more racism right now, this

869
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 2: murder is eventually solved ten years later, the culprit, Derek Adomes,

870
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: had murdered the priest and a robbery gone bad. Nothing

871
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,919
Speaker 2: no gay stuff, no gangs, just a guy who killed

872
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 2: another dude in a robbery. Happens all the time.

873
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 3: Do you guys do merch for this pund.

874
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 2: We have in the past.

875
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 3: You got a suggestion, Yeah, Young Mulatto homosexual is an

876
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 3: amazing T shirt. I would buy this.

877
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 2: Teacher that's a solid performer name yeah, or a good

878
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 2: band name or a good band name yeah. So that

879
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 2: there's no real evidence to suggest that she had any

880
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: kind of extensive, long lasting relationship with law enforcement. Again,

881
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 2: Thibodeaux hires her once, but not again because they waste

882
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: their money on her, and there's certainly no evidence that

883
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: she catches any bad guys, but she sure starts claiming

884
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 2: that she had once she gets famous due to her

885
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: appearances on the Montel Williams Show. As best as I

886
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,720
Speaker 2: can tell, the relationship starts in nineteen ninety because Montell

887
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: wants to do a Halloween episode about the Haunting of

888
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: the Queen Mary, which is like this, Sophie, it's like

889
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: a boat you can tour that's like off the Long Beach, right, yeah, right,

890
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:06,919
Speaker 2: and you know it's an older boats there's I think

891
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 2: supposed to be ghost on it. So she gets brought

892
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 2: in there like we need a psychic. Montell's people like,

893
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: we want a psychic for this episode. They bring in Sylvia.

894
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 2: She does a really good job on the episode because

895
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: she knows how to entertain an audience, and Montell's like,

896
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,959
Speaker 2: you're great. They hit it off and he keeps having

897
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: her on. Right, It's just a good match. Montel provides

898
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 2: her with instant fame and legitimacy, treating her with casual

899
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 2: deference and opening her up to a whole world of

900
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 2: major entertainment figures. She does a whole series about angels

901
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 2: on Montell's show that so successful. Larry King wrings her

902
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: on his show to do the same thing, to talk

903
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 2: about how and to have callers tell stories about how

904
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: angels save their lives, and she'll explain how angels really work. Right,

905
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 2: it's very nineties, but like she is, you know, by

906
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 2: the time you're on Montela and Larry King you're pretty prominent, right.

907
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 2: It doesn't get a lot bigger than.

908
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 1: That your borderline of household name if not right?

909
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah quote. No matter the situation, the basic experience

910
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: was always the same. During a crisis, a stranger arrived

911
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 2: seemingly out of nowhere, had a profound impact on the crisis,

912
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 2: carrying a drowning woman out of the sea and delivering

913
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 2: her safely to the beach, removing a trapped driver from

914
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 2: a badly damaged car moments before it caught fire, laying

915
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: hands on the forehead of a feverish child on the

916
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 2: hospital seconds before the fever coincidentally broke, and then disappearing

917
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: before anyone could find out who they were and thank them.

918
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 2: And these are the angel stories people tell. And I

919
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,879
Speaker 2: get why people believe in this, as someone has had

920
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 2: like loved ones just like die tragically and not had

921
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 2: an angel, it does kind of render like, well, why

922
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 2: why don't the angels help everybody?

923
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, why.

924
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 2: Are the angels really seem to like to help people

925
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 2: like affluent kids in like western hospitals and not like

926
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 2: kids with like gut worms and sub Saharan Africa. It's

927
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: where the angels don't like save them. Huh, just the

928
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 2: kids in nice hospital. Okay, So Sylvia starts writing books.

929
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:00,720
Speaker 2: I mean she had been for a while while writing books,

930
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 2: but they start to become best sellers. She claims she

931
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 2: has more than twenty New York Times bestsellers, so I

932
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: think this is pretty much accurate. She has her book

933
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 2: sell very well, she makes a shitload of money. And

934
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 2: this is all after the Montel stuff. Yep, all after

935
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 2: the Montell stuff. This is all in the late nineties, right.

936
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety eight, she co writes the book Adventures

937
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: of a Psychic with Antoinatte May, in which she blames

938
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 2: her nineteen eighty eight bankruptcy on her husband Kensel's attempts

939
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 2: to hide his criminal behavior. She does not acknowledge being

940
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 2: convicted of a felony for gold mine fraud. Per the Chronicle,

941
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 2: she laments that while ignorant, people say, well, if you're

942
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 2: so psychic, why didn't you blank? The answer, she says,

943
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 2: is that I'm not psychic about myself. So she is

944
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 2: consistent about that, But like, that doesn't answer the question

945
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 2: of why did you defraud people for a fake gold mine? Now,

946
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 2: despite all these very obvious lies and his history of

947
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 2: failed predictions. She's really good on TV, so she keeps

948
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 2: getting invited on Montell's show. All Sylvia has to do

949
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: is make sure that every word out of her mouth

950
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 2: is a lie per the skeptical inquirer. In her November

951
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 2: two thousand and four appearance on The Montell william Show,

952
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 2: Brown said, I remember when I was working on the

953
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 2: Bundy case talking about Ted Bundy. Outside of this offhand comment,

954
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 2: there's no evidence to affirm that Brown worked on a

955
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 2: Bundy case, much less the case of serial killer Ted Bundy,

956
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 2: whose capture was not connected to a psychic. So she

957
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 2: should just start dropping this whenever a famous murder or

958
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 2: crime or terrorist act's say, oh I helped on that

959
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 2: I consulted. I can't talk about it, but.

960
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: There's literally no evidence to support that claim whatsoever. Cool.

961
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 2: No, we started these episodes by talking about the case

962
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 2: of Amanda Barry, who was abducted in two thousand and

963
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 2: three and whose mother in two thousand and four consulted

964
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 2: with Sylvia on The Montell Williams Show and got a

965
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 2: very bad reading. As I noted, she's devastated by this.

966
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 2: She returns home and gives away her father's or her

967
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 2: daughter's things, takes down the pictures and it's very sad.

968
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: But what's interesting to me about this is that Amandaberry's

969
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 2: mom is actually responsible for the only verified contact with

970
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 2: the FBI that Sylvia ever had, per the Cleveland Plaine dealer.

971
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 2: At me Allier's request. FBI agents investigating Amanda's disappearance met

972
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 2: with Miller after the show to discuss Brown's other psychic

973
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 2: views on the case. Special agent Kelly Liberty said Brown

974
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 2: said she envisioned Amanda's jacket and a dumpster with DNA

975
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: on it. So she tells them the psychic told me

976
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 2: that my daughter's jacket was in a dumpster, it was

977
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 2: covered in blood, and the FBI is like, okay, we'll

978
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 2: look into it. That's her only real connection to the FBI. Wow,

979
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 2: that's the only one that there actually is. Now, when

980
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 2: the real abductor was caught, most people would be ashamed.

981
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 2: Brown took a victory lap, even as the media rightly

982
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: lambasted her for wrongly declaring a woman dead, because well,

983
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: here's the thing. Sylvia had gotten the fact that she

984
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 2: was dead wrong obviously, but she was right about who

985
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 2: did the crime, because she predicted that Amanda was abducted

986
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 2: by a sort of Cuban looking man. Oh maybe twenty

987
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: one or twenty two. Now, the actual culprit was first

988
00:48:54,040 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 2: off born in Puerto Rico, and second was in his forties. Yeah,

989
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 2: just wrong. She also described him as short, and he

990
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 2: was of average height. She's wrong about everything. In a

991
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 2: statement posted to her Facebook page following Barry's dramatic escape,

992
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: Brown acknowledged that she'd been wrong about her death. Writing

993
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 2: for more than fifty years as a spiritual guide in

994
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: psychic when called upon to either help authorities with missing

995
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 2: persons cases or to help families with questions about their

996
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 2: loved ones, I have been more right than wrong. If

997
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:24,720
Speaker 2: there was ever a time to be grateful and relieve

998
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 2: for being mistaken, this is that time. Only God is

999
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 2: right all the time.

1000
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, all right, okay, it's something she's got

1001
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 3: a little like suburban mom pr going right.

1002
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: I feel like, honestly, the version of this today would

1003
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 2: be like, oh, she's not alive. That's a fake, you know,

1004
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 2: the government planted her or something like. You like our

1005
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 2: modern grifters can't even admit to being that wrong. It's weird,

1006
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: how refreshing it is that she at least acknowledged reality.

1007
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, good point, so this is not.

1008
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 2: Her only fuck up. In two thousand and three, Brown

1009
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 2: gives a reading on Montel again, this time about the

1010
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 2: two thousand and one aspearance of Jerry Chusney Junior. She

1011
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 2: told that man's sister that Chustney had been hit on

1012
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 2: the head, choked, and thrown into a river, and added

1013
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 2: that he'd been killed because he saw something he shouldn't.

1014
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 2: In twenty ten, that man's roommates were charged with shooting

1015
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 2: him and hiding his body over a drug debt. He

1016
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 2: was buried in the woods. Again wrong about every detail

1017
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 2: in the case. In two thousand and five, she gave

1018
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 2: her reading on Montel to Tamara Ivy, the mother of

1019
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 2: a murder victim named Dustin. She blamed a teenage boy

1020
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 2: and a young dark haired woman, one of whom was

1021
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 2: a sexual predator and had used a rock to kill Ivy.

1022
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 2: Then she promised the case would be solved soon. There

1023
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 2: is no evidence that Dustin was sexually abused. Police ultimately

1024
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 2: charged his brother for the murder, although his brother was

1025
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 2: found not guilty at trial, so the case is still unsolved,

1026
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 2: and she says it would be solved quickly, so again wrong.

1027
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 2: That same year, per the skeptical inquirer, Sylvia Brown's November thirtieth,

1028
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 2: two thousand and five reading for Samantha Materer, mother of

1029
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 2: Christopher Mader, had a much clearer outcome. Brown gave the

1030
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 2: mother a name, which was again censored, and claimed Christopher's

1031
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 2: murder stemmed from the killer not liking the food at

1032
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 2: the bar he worked at. Then later the killer saw

1033
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 2: him passing by and shot him. Brown also told the

1034
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 2: mother to start looking where he ate breakfast. Matthew Coral

1035
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 2: and Sean Myers were charged with the murder, and Coral

1036
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 2: was found guilty and Myers pled guilty. In twenty twelve,

1037
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 2: the two had attempted to rob Mader, again totally fucking wrong.

1038
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 2: Perhaps her most devastating fuck up was in two thousand

1039
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 2: and two, an eleven year old boy, Sean Hornbeck went

1040
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 2: missing while riding his bike. Shawn's parents went on the

1041
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 2: Montel Williams Show, and Sylvia told them their son was

1042
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 2: dead and that his body would be found buried beneath

1043
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 2: two boulders per an article on Grunge. Fortunately, not everyone

1044
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 2: believed her. When a boy named ben Ohenby went missing.

1045
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 2: In two thousand and seven. Journalist Michelle McNamara, who would

1046
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 2: later be credited for helping to identify the Golden State Killer,

1047
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 2: connected Hornback and Owenby based on physical similarities and their

1048
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,399
Speaker 2: ages when abducted. Sure enough, it was McNamara who was right.

1049
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 2: When Omby was found by law enforcement four days after

1050
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 2: his disappearance, they were shocked to find Hornbeck was still too.

1051
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: He was still fucking alive. She did it again. She

1052
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 2: was wrong about another person that she declared dead to

1053
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,959
Speaker 2: their families. It's great that he was alive, Thank fucking God.

1054
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that there was like an air of disbelief.

1055
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:16,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1056
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 2: Hornbeck's father later told CNN hearing Brown's prediction was one

1057
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 2: of the hardest things We've ever had to hear, and

1058
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 2: that stuck with the guardians. John Ronson So the same year,

1059
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, he booked himself on a Brown

1060
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 2: lead cruise and got an interview. When he asked her

1061
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 2: what happened, she claimed she had focused on three missing children,

1062
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: two were dead, and I think what I did was

1063
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 2: I got my wires crossed. There was a blonde and

1064
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 2: two boys who are dead. I think I picked the

1065
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 2: wrong kid still. Her ex husband Gary Duffrayan condemned her,

1066
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 2: saying the damage she does to unsuspecting people in crisis

1067
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 2: situations is just atrocious. Yeah yeah, clearly, Yeah yeah, uh yeah.

1068
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 2: It's all pretty bleak. And there's a lot of these

1069
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 2: that we could go through, Like, there's there's so many

1070
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 2: of these different like cases. The skeptical inquirer has like

1071
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 2: a whole list of them. And even in the cases

1072
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 2: where she's kind of right, where like she got the

1073
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 2: the murder, the fact that someone was murdered right, and

1074
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 2: more or less the cause, she's always wrong about where

1075
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 2: the body is, what happened to it, all that stuff. Now,

1076
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 2: Sylvia doesn't limit her predictions to crimes or the personal

1077
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 2: lives of her clients either. In her two thousand and

1078
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 2: five book Prophecy, Sylvia wrote that after Pope John Paul

1079
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 2: the Second passes, there will only be one more elected pope,

1080
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 2: and wrote he will be succeeded by what is essentially

1081
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 2: a triumvirate of popes. That's not what happened. I don't

1082
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 2: have to bust that myth. We all live through it.

1083
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 2: We're several popes down now, we've been going through popes

1084
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,879
Speaker 2: left and right. You know, still it sounds fun having

1085
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 2: three popes, but not yet palooza yep. In two thousand

1086
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 2: and eight, she wrote a book called End of Days,

1087
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 2: in which she predicted there would be a manned mission

1088
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 2: to Mars in twenty twelve, and in twenty eleven she

1089
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 2: predicted Mitt Romney would defeat Barack Obama in that next

1090
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:07,240
Speaker 2: year's presidential election. All wrong. In her later years, Sylvia

1091
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 2: attracted increasing criticism for being wrong about everything, but she

1092
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 2: stayed on tel v TV until late in her life

1093
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 2: and continued to give eight hundred and fifty dollars readings

1094
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 2: to thousands of customers who trusted her implicitly. On her website,

1095
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 2: she claimed an accuracy rate of between eighty seven and

1096
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 2: ninety percent. A twenty ten analysis of one hundred and

1097
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 2: fifteen predictions she made on The Montel Williams Show, done

1098
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 2: by The Skeptical Inquirer rated her success as roughly zero percent.

1099
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 2: To really make that point for you, cal Sylvia predicts

1100
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 2: her own death in two thousand and three on The

1101
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 2: Larry King Show. She tells Larry that she would die

1102
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 2: on a peacefully at age eighty eight. She actually dies

1103
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 2: eleven years earlier, age seventy seven, on November twentieth, twenty thirteen.

1104
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 2: Wrong right up to the end, barrel.

1105
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 3: Whoa, Yeah, that is quite the roller coaster. Yeah, of

1106
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 3: I knew none of this. I knew she was and

1107
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 3: I knew none of this.

1108
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny that like you can, really, you

1109
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 2: can really just be wrong constantly as long as you've

1110
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 2: got a fan base and it's okay, like they'll they'll

1111
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 2: back you up, you know, like she never loses the

1112
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 2: core of her support despite how wrong she's I guess

1113
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 2: it's a prediction for where we are today, like politically

1114
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 2: and and everything else.

1115
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,839
Speaker 3: There's a massive desire that we have to want to

1116
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:40,879
Speaker 3: believe things. Yeah, so I can somewhat empathize with I mean,

1117
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 3: people who want to believe something.

1118
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1119
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 3: Also, can we just acknowledge are you really This is

1120
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 3: not a call out to a parent who's desperate to

1121
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 3: find their kid, obviously, but yeah, like, are we really

1122
00:55:55,920 --> 00:56:01,799
Speaker 3: thinking that the Montel Williams Show is the the apex

1123
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 3: of how we're solving scientific crimes? Crimes? That's that's what

1124
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 3: we're all.

1125
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: Elections.

1126
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 2: And I think you're right on the money, Calan, that

1127
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 2: like it's everyone is to blame the viewers, the people

1128
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,360
Speaker 2: on the show Montel Sylvia, but the parent because you

1129
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 2: can't like the parents can't effect to be sane when

1130
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 2: the kids have been kidnapped.

1131
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 3: Of course, Like you see that that documentary on the

1132
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:29,399
Speaker 3: Jerry Springer Show. No, it's fantastic, it's worth a watch.

1133
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 3: It's very silar to a lot of it, like peeling

1134
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 3: back the curtain on that just makes me think, you know,

1135
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 3: I don't I don't know anything about how the Mantel

1136
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 3: Williams Show worked, but obviously it's a TV show. So yeah,

1137
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,760
Speaker 3: to your point earlier, ever, like the it's about entertaining

1138
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 3: people period more than anything else. And Springer was you know,

1139
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 3: the sort of most egregious version of that.

1140
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's I mean, it really is like

1141
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 2: pulling back an unfortunately, like a dark curtain on this

1142
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 2: part of my childhood that i'd never really analyzed more. Yeah,

1143
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 2: there's psychics on TV and they read it's fun and

1144
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 2: it's like no, no, no, it could be pretty harmful too.

1145
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 2: Sometimes they also defraud banks, which I have less of

1146
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 2: a problem with. That's not my primary issue with her. Well,

1147
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 2: you want to plug anything.

1148
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 3: Oh sorry, no, go ahead, good.

1149
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: Oh.

1150
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 2: I was just asking if you had anything to plug

1151
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 2: at the end here, because we're coming to the end.

1152
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 3: I would love to plug my podcast, which is not

1153
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 3: about psychics. It's called Here we Go Again and we

1154
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 3: look at topics through pop culture and politics, past present

1155
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 3: and future of the specific topic and hopefully leave the

1156
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 3: audience with a feeling a little smarter about what you

1157
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 3: learned and a little more hopeful about how you plug

1158
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 3: into that particular issue.

1159
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 2: Awesome, Well hopeful sounds good right about now, So check

1160
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 2: that out. Thank you Cal for coming on the show.

1161
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 2: Thank you all for thank you for having me. That's

1162
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 2: going to be it for us today. Go way out,

1163
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 2: listen to something else Hie.

1164
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1165
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,400
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1166
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,120
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1167
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:13,000
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1168
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: episodes but Behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix,

1169
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit remind me of Netflix.

1170
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,680
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1171
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:25,360
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1172
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:29,360
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1173
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:31,400
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