Speaker 1: We cannot get away from those q that causes us
Speaker 1: to be attracted to something like is at money, status
Speaker 1: and everything else. But when it comes down to actual experience,
Speaker 1: kindness and pleasure and respect means a lot more than
Speaker 1: just being tall, being rich and have a sex pack,
Speaker 1: or having a seventh figure income. Hello, and welcome to
Speaker 1: the Psychology Podcast. Today, we welcome Kenneth Play and Madison
Speaker 1: Sloan Holland to the show. Kenneth Play is an international
Speaker 1: sex expert and sex educator. Named quote the World's Greatest
Speaker 1: sex hacker by GQ. He has been featured by more
Speaker 1: than one hundred media outlets, including The New York Times,
Speaker 1: Men's Health, Cosmopolitan, and The Huffington Post. He is the
Speaker 1: creator of the Sex Hacker pro series, and he is
Speaker 1: author of the book Beyond Satisfied. His work has helped
Speaker 1: millions of men gain lasting confidence and competence. Madison swoln
Speaker 1: Holland is a sex empowerment coach, intimacy expert, and co
Speaker 1: host of the top rated sex podcast Pleasure Positive Living.
Speaker 1: In this episode, I talked to Kenneth and Madison about
Speaker 1: how to increase sexual pleasure. Most people fail to realize
Speaker 1: their full sexual potential, partly because sex education in America
Speaker 1: is fear and shame driven. As a result, people turn
Speaker 1: to different forms of media, which can create unrealistic expectations
Speaker 1: and increase insecurities. In this episode, Kenneth and Madison dispel
Speaker 1: the most common sex myths and talk about how we
Speaker 1: can empower both men and women to take charge of
Speaker 1: their own pleasure. This was such a fun conversation with
Speaker 1: two people who are so sex positive as well as empowering.
Speaker 1: I really hope that you listen to this podcast with
Speaker 1: an open mind, and I hope it empowers you to
Speaker 1: reach your full sexual potential and increase the connections and
Speaker 1: intimacy with others in your life. So, without further ado,
Speaker 1: I bring you Kenneth play and Madison. Sloane Holland, Kenneth
Speaker 1: and Madison, it is so great to have you on
Speaker 1: the Psychology potodcast. Thank you. Yeah, I'm so excited. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be great talking to you both. Well, this is
Speaker 1: going to be a fun conversation. You know, this is
Speaker 1: going to be a fun one. It's on sexual pleasure
Speaker 1: and you two are experts on that topic. First of all,
Speaker 1: what's it like to be an expert on sexual pleasure.
Speaker 1: I mean, does that a little bit of an ego
Speaker 1: boost at all? Or do you try not to think
Speaker 1: about that too much? You try to stay humble and
Speaker 1: all that caveats. I would say for me, it's a
Speaker 1: healthy balance of the two. I say that with as
Speaker 1: much humility as I can. I mean, definitely, it's noticeable
Speaker 1: for the lovers that I interact with. I happen to
Speaker 1: be polyamorous and married, so I do engage in outside
Speaker 1: situations other than with my husband, and I do get
Speaker 1: positive reviews and feedback, and I do my best to
Speaker 1: not let my eco take over. And I certainly I
Speaker 1: think brag in a healthy way about my sex game,
Speaker 1: but all in the name of having others feel safe
Speaker 1: to explore their own sexuality. Excellent, Kenneth. Kenneth, what's your
Speaker 1: response to this. I never thought I will be a
Speaker 1: sex expert. You know, I was so sexually insecure, and
Speaker 1: my journey is really about overcoming my insecurity and finding
Speaker 1: confidence to by increasing my confidence in This is kind
Speaker 1: of awkward, actually, like I prefer to be the underdog.
Speaker 1: I realize when people think I'm a sex exprest that
Speaker 1: pressure is not necessarily enjoyable for me. I thought I
Speaker 1: would like it, but in reality, like I get embarrassed
Speaker 1: most of the time when people talk to me that way.
Speaker 1: I still most of the time, even though I have
Speaker 1: worked a lot on developing my expertise to me is
Speaker 1: still skill sharing. You know, it's not necessary that like
Speaker 1: I'm the expert, I'm going to train you on X
Speaker 1: y Z. I think everybody's sexual expression is unique to themselves,
Speaker 1: so I don't necessarily teach other people to be more
Speaker 1: like me, but like having you be more like yourself.
Speaker 1: And that's been a really fun journey. And you have
Speaker 1: this book. It's called Bed Satisfied, A Hacker's Guide to
Speaker 1: Endless Orgasms, mind blowing connections and lasting pleasure. Soundly good things.
Speaker 1: That sounds like really good things. GQ has called Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm doing doing exactly what you don't like, you know, abiliting,
Speaker 1: But GQ calls you the world's greatest sex hacker. What
Speaker 1: does hacking mean in the sex context? And you know,
Speaker 1: there's like the biohacking space, which I can kind of
Speaker 1: wrap my head around, but what does it mean in
Speaker 1: the sex space to be a hacker, to be a
Speaker 1: sex hacker. I've been in the fitness industry for fifteen years.
Speaker 1: So biohacking and finess hacking always been part of, you know,
Speaker 1: part of that industry, like how do you reduce your
Speaker 1: body fat? Got muscle? How do you encreciate Endura's vertical jump?
Speaker 1: So when I dive into sexuality, I realized there have
Speaker 1: been sex hackered through our human history, like Kamma Stutre
Speaker 1: from India. You could think of the bond of shabari
Speaker 1: Are from Japan, all the Victorian era when they created
Speaker 1: the vibrated, all those different technique modality. It's different sex
Speaker 1: hack that people have created over time to enhance sexual experiences.
Speaker 1: So as a modern day sax hackert, what I love
Speaker 1: is about collecting new sex hack and science has a
Speaker 1: lot to do with it. We have learned a lot
Speaker 1: more about sexuality and there's different ways to how do
Speaker 1: you get to a place where you could feel aroused
Speaker 1: when you are struggling with getting aroused? So how can
Speaker 1: you use signed to set up an environment where you
Speaker 1: could be in your parasynthetic nervous system. It's an interesting hack.
Speaker 1: There's one crazy one lately. I'm not prescribing this, don't
Speaker 1: play it after on TV, but For some people who
Speaker 1: have deal with severe sexual trauma, taking a beta blocker
Speaker 1: could reduce the physical sign of reacting to the physical trauma,
Speaker 1: then pledge you could happen again. So I'm thinking all
Speaker 1: these different ways that people have figured out how to
Speaker 1: enhance the sexual experiences, and that's why I love the
Speaker 1: term sex hacking. What do you both see as some
Speaker 1: major blocks to sexual pleasure? You know, I often like
Speaker 1: to think with self actualization, like when I work with
Speaker 1: clients and my self actualisation coaching stuff, It's like, what
Speaker 1: do you think are the major blocks to your own
Speaker 1: self actualization? How are you getting in your own way?
Speaker 1: How do people get in their own way in terms
Speaker 1: of sexual pleasure. First, I want to just lay the
Speaker 1: groundwork for sex education in our country. I think this
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with how we how educated
Speaker 1: we are by a certain age, and so you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of the sex education in this country is
Speaker 1: about abstinence, is about don't get pregnant and be careful
Speaker 1: of STDs. But there really is an education in our
Speaker 1: system about pleasure. And you know, you can see by
Speaker 1: Canna's birds and the accessory the birds in the best
Speaker 1: conversation as kids, if you think about the conversation you
Speaker 1: had with your own parents. Maybe you were fortune to
Speaker 1: have your parents actually call your genitals by their proper names,
Speaker 1: but many of us, we were taught to call our
Speaker 1: genitals slang names, not what the proper naming of our
Speaker 1: genitals are, which taught us from a really young age
Speaker 1: that to shame our bodies, to shame these parts of
Speaker 1: our bodies. You know, the elbow is an elbow, but
Speaker 1: for some reason we're going to refer to the vagina
Speaker 1: or penis as a huha. Right, makes no sense from
Speaker 1: a scientific standpoint to not name our body parts that
Speaker 1: they are. And often this lack of education about our
Speaker 1: bodies and what they're capable of. And you know, for example,
Speaker 1: how to masturbate, we don't talk about that necessarily openly
Speaker 1: with our kids, with the current system that's in place.
Speaker 1: How to experience pleasure. We talk about the other often
Speaker 1: scary things with sex, the more fear driven tactics to
Speaker 1: the educational conversation that is sex. And so we go
Speaker 1: on our journey and we find porn and we learn
Speaker 1: a lot about sex from porn. And I'm a host
Speaker 1: of one of the top rated sexuality podcasts the Pleasure
Speaker 1: Positive Podcast, and we've interviewed some of the most renowned
Speaker 1: people in our industry, one of which being a sex
Speaker 1: workers rights activists Nina Hartley, who's also famous porn star.
Speaker 1: Yeah you vote no, Nina, and she says a very
Speaker 1: famous quote, which is, you don't learn sex from porn,
Speaker 1: just like you wouldn't learn how to drive a car
Speaker 1: from watching Fast and Furious. And so that's good, that's good,
Speaker 1: and yet we without the proper pleasure education in our system.
Speaker 1: This is what's happening, is we're learning a lot about
Speaker 1: sex and a lot about our bodies from basically movies
Speaker 1: and fantasy situations that are made up in a lot
Speaker 1: of cases. So when it comes to the sex education conversation,
Speaker 1: where where we take a stand is really informing people
Speaker 1: about pleasure education. For example, oh, you know a woman
Speaker 1: has there are five different types of cltoruses and they
Speaker 1: all like different stimulation, and they all like different things.
Speaker 1: And so when we start to talk about pleasure education,
Speaker 1: we can really get more in touch with our own
Speaker 1: bodies and our own body sensation and really take the
Speaker 1: shame out of it and make this a really accessible conversation.
Speaker 1: Two folks, I think it's really interesting where people kind
Speaker 1: of like pleasure block themselves. Besides just studying like sexual pleasure,
Speaker 1: I also co founded a sex positive community where we
Speaker 1: have like events and different things and their true founding
Speaker 1: pillar is desire, your desire and belonging. So in order
Speaker 1: for someone to experience pleasure, they have to be authentic
Speaker 1: to themselves, like what actually arouses them, what turns them on,
Speaker 1: and they have to be able to celebrate whatever that
Speaker 1: arouses them and turns them on. And then usually they
Speaker 1: want to feel a sense of belonging and what turns
Speaker 1: them on, what feels good to them. So usually is
Speaker 1: if someone having a difficult time experiencing pleasure, they have
Speaker 1: bought into one of the box that they're supposed to
Speaker 1: be so they go like, oh, sex is only normal
Speaker 1: like this, so I should like this, and if I
Speaker 1: don't like this, there's something wrong with me. So the
Speaker 1: idea is to really embrace the things that actually arouses them,
Speaker 1: right as long as it is with two consenting adults,
Speaker 1: right that they could make sure negotiate like each other's
Speaker 1: well being. And the second part is that we do
Speaker 1: want a sense of acceptance to the things that arouse
Speaker 1: us us and turn us on so and on the
Speaker 1: on the scientific sense, so there's like the psychological arousal.
Speaker 1: You also have to receive the type of sensation that
Speaker 1: works for your body and your everybody's is everybody's body
Speaker 1: is slightly different, but we don't necessarily educate people how
Speaker 1: they're different. So so when I was researching for the book,
Speaker 1: I really dig really deep into like why does this
Speaker 1: particular vote are preferred to be touched slightly off like
Speaker 1: one o'clock off the clid, and some people will only
Speaker 1: get off and touching their pupid mound and nowhere need
Speaker 1: a clip, and some people only prefer internal stimulation, and
Speaker 1: why some people only get off from being spanked, Like
Speaker 1: how how do we make sense of all of those things?
Speaker 1: And their discovery is quite fascinating. It has to do
Speaker 1: with you know, both nature and nurture and also the
Speaker 1: environment and how all those things get wired in in
Speaker 1: your sexual development phase. So all those things take into
Speaker 1: account kind of creates a unique blueprint to each individual
Speaker 1: what does it for them? But we really don't get
Speaker 1: to choose that much. Once that creation is formed, it's flexible,
Speaker 1: it's fluid to a port. But I think the foundation
Speaker 1: is that you have to go with what actually does
Speaker 1: it for you and most of the couple that ever coach.
Speaker 1: I can tell you a quick story about this couple
Speaker 1: that be married for thirty years and they have like
Speaker 1: okay sex life. It's kind of like okay, we have
Speaker 1: sex and it's okay, and then both party never share
Speaker 1: they have kinky fantasy. Like is a Bible bell couple
Speaker 1: who is super religious but have a difficult time accepting
Speaker 1: the fifty grade of shape turns them on both for
Speaker 1: both of them, but they just never have their ability
Speaker 1: to share that that's what's arousing for them and when
Speaker 1: they are giving each other permission to express that part
Speaker 1: of this actuality Allison, after Dirty Year, everything clicks for them.
Speaker 1: So sometime is really about celebrating the thing that works
Speaker 1: with them and figure out a way to negotiate them
Speaker 1: and also receive their experience and touch that you know
Speaker 1: they're really yearned for. I love that. Do you think
Speaker 1: that most people in our let's talk about American society
Speaker 1: are not living up to their sexual potential, Like there's
Speaker 1: so much more that they could experience they don't even
Speaker 1: know as possible. Would would you say that's a fair statement.
Speaker 1: I would say that from my standpoint, yes, what about
Speaker 1: you kind of you know, coming from the fitness industry,
Speaker 1: if most people never have trained their body like consistently
Speaker 1: with sort of like a good fitness protocol, they don't
Speaker 1: know what their body is capable off. Right, Like our
Speaker 1: body is also capable off like being a mathon runner
Speaker 1: versus a powerlifter, and you might have some talent for
Speaker 1: like they're two extreme side right. One is like lifting
Speaker 1: one thing really heavy for one second. The other thing
Speaker 1: is like running twenty six mile. The body is physically
Speaker 1: capable for both. And I'm not everybody needs to be
Speaker 1: a sexual Olympian necessarily, but that's why, like I love
Speaker 1: the education side because the growth mindset that you can
Speaker 1: adapt to sexuality is so huge. People don't know the
Speaker 1: orgasmic potential if they are willing to train it. And
Speaker 1: that's when all the ancient protocol like Tantra or Kingster
Speaker 1: have figured out how to keep like push that like
Speaker 1: can they feel more? Can they can? They have so
Speaker 1: much orgasm and this extended rolling orgasm, they feel like
Speaker 1: they meet that maker, like they have a psychedelic experience.
Speaker 1: But it require just like meditation or fitness that it
Speaker 1: requires of this growth mindset and training protocol to develop that.
Speaker 1: But we look as access that is it just an
Speaker 1: innate distincttionial thing, either your bond being good at bad
Speaker 1: or you have to write equipment or you don't. So
Speaker 1: I think my message from my book is really about
Speaker 1: that growth mindset. We so underestimate what is possible without
Speaker 1: putting their investment on our sexuality. My mentor, Abraham Maslow,
Speaker 1: the humanistic psychologist, talked about this a little bit in
Speaker 1: some of his unpublished writings. I came across these like
Speaker 1: people don't know what their sexual heights could be, especially
Speaker 1: linking it to transcendence, which is that's that's where the
Speaker 1: topic where I feel more comfortable talking about is. I
Speaker 1: see you have my book up there, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: In what ways are you interested in helping people reach
Speaker 1: transcendence through sexual behavior? Yours transcendent states of being, getting
Speaker 1: outside yourself, you know, not being so self focused, and
Speaker 1: even spirituality? You know this is I'm so fascinated between
Speaker 1: the link between sexuality and spirituality. Can we riff on
Speaker 1: that a little bit? So? I love to speak from experience,
Speaker 1: and I'll try anything three times because I believe the
Speaker 1: first time you try something, there's that component I'm trying
Speaker 1: for the first time. The second time is all was
Speaker 1: a little scarier, and then the third time, you know,
Speaker 1: you really know of something's for you. And I went
Speaker 1: on this personal journey of yeah for me, I was
Speaker 1: very interested when I explored my such sexuality in maximizing
Speaker 1: my sexual potential right having longer orgasms, having more orgasms,
Speaker 1: having stronger orgasms. And on that journey that let me
Speaker 1: down a path of tntra of completely exploring the exploration
Speaker 1: of where science, where this sexuality is a spiritual conversation.
Speaker 1: I have had the same partner of this entire journey,
Speaker 1: of this process I've been on who I've been able
Speaker 1: to experiment with and through both self pleasure so masturbation
Speaker 1: as well as partnered practice. Here I am. I started
Speaker 1: my journey almost seven years ago. I am absolutely multi
Speaker 1: orgasmic whenever I want to be with certain things in
Speaker 1: place that I'm sure Kenneth and I will get into
Speaker 1: a little bit later. And I went on the journey
Speaker 1: of learning how to squirt and I did. I believe
Speaker 1: anything is fucking possible if you believe and you want it,
Speaker 1: and you know you're worthy of it. Anything's possible, and
Speaker 1: I truly live my life that way. And we have
Speaker 1: an extraordinary transformational eight week coaching program we only run
Speaker 1: once a year for our community of pleasure seekers, and
Speaker 1: it's called Sex and Empowerment. And we really believe that
Speaker 1: when people, I mean me and my partners met in
Speaker 1: a my partners on the podcast met in an entrepreneurial
Speaker 1: leadership program, very corporate. We were in blazers, no cleavage allowed,
Speaker 1: and we connected and somehow, when we completed that communication
Speaker 1: coaching program, we all became communication coaches. Inside of We
Speaker 1: took a hard left turn when we completed that and
Speaker 1: somehow started a sex podcast, and for us it was
Speaker 1: really the missing link. We worked on ourselves so much,
Speaker 1: had done so much, I would say, in the world
Speaker 1: of ontology. I was also a psychology minor, so I
Speaker 1: just was always obsessed with like understanding why and how
Speaker 1: and how things work, and the study of being human
Speaker 1: was always very fascinating to me, which is what ontology is,
Speaker 1: what it is to be human. And we really feel
Speaker 1: that what launched our transformation or our transcendence into the
Speaker 1: stratosphere was looking at our sexuality and when we all
Speaker 1: did you know, we were all three very different. For me,
Speaker 1: I came out in my marriage and I'm still married
Speaker 1: to the same person, and to me, that's a huge breakthrough.
Speaker 1: And WIN can't imagine how many people either don't come
Speaker 1: out in their partnership and suppress that there arry life
Speaker 1: or do and then they end up having to part ways.
Speaker 1: For one of my other partners, she was literally a
Speaker 1: thirty three year old woman who had never masturbated before,
Speaker 1: didn't know women did, and had a series of injuries
Speaker 1: along the left side of her body that she healed
Speaker 1: through masturbation. So, for us, sex is not just a
Speaker 1: spiritual conversation, it's a health conversation. And I think that
Speaker 1: when it comes to spirituality, being deeply connected to our body,
Speaker 1: being deeply in communication with our body, being able to
Speaker 1: hear what our intuition is versus be run by our
Speaker 1: limiting beliefs or any sort of unprocessed trauma from childhood. Right,
Speaker 1: what we're all about is really freeing people up from
Speaker 1: their past so that they can embody the kind of
Speaker 1: mindset that they know they're the creator of their reality,
Speaker 1: that they are worthy of their desires and whatever they
Speaker 1: want to create in and out of the bedroom is possible. However,
Speaker 1: do you think it takes a major mindset either shift
Speaker 1: or like start from scratch, depending on if we're dealing
Speaker 1: with any sort of religious implications from upbringing, your et cetera.
Speaker 1: What I love about sexual experiences that it really incorporate
Speaker 1: all your sentences, both like psychological and physical, and it
Speaker 1: transcend you to a state of mind that is extremely unique.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to butcher Adam Saffron and James Fowles,
Speaker 1: and also Ian Karna talks about this idea of in trainment,
Speaker 1: like how do you get your brain into this rhythmic
Speaker 1: state where you are your ego dissipate right, you're having
Speaker 1: a if you call it a religious experience or whatever
Speaker 1: it is, but it's a very unique state to get
Speaker 1: your brain to when you're experiencing peak sexual experiences. Also,
Speaker 1: I look at compared to good lover to good fighters,
Speaker 1: and this the reason why is good fighters are able
Speaker 1: to man their nervous system in a way that they
Speaker 1: are could relax enough and be excited enough at the
Speaker 1: same dynad they could modulate the same amounts or you
Speaker 1: could both learn how to activate your parasitic nervous system
Speaker 1: to your sympathetic in a way that you could keep
Speaker 1: making those independent system peak at a higher level, so
Speaker 1: you are your subjective experience is higher and higher, just
Speaker 1: like a soldier could handle like a war to handle danger,
Speaker 1: you know, or like the world was falling apart it
Speaker 1: but they could stay, they could stay calm and cool
Speaker 1: in that experience and they could manage their their state
Speaker 1: and throughout human history, like when we talked about the
Speaker 1: commistruture or the thata was practice, practitioner have learned like
Speaker 1: different ways to kind of hack that in a way
Speaker 1: that they could experience transcendence in in their body whereas
Speaker 1: beyond themselves. And there's a lot of there's a lot
Speaker 1: of interesting about peak sexual experiences. When something is like
Speaker 1: novel is surprising, you didn't know what's possible, but it's
Speaker 1: more pledge. Then you have a thought And that's why
Speaker 1: I actually wrote the book Beyond Satisfy, Like there's a
Speaker 1: moment when this sexual experience is so profound that you
Speaker 1: reindex your everything in your brain about what's good and
Speaker 1: that like that meal that bla like transform your life.
Speaker 1: I didn't know food could be that good, so but
Speaker 1: sex is one of those things that is we already
Speaker 1: have a drive for it, so like you don't have
Speaker 1: to cltigue to go towards it. And when people have
Speaker 1: a mind blowing experience is and sometimes borderline addictive, right,
Speaker 1: like it was that good. So for some people it's
Speaker 1: really easy to get there. For some people it's more challenging.
Speaker 1: But I have found that when I'm able to access
Speaker 1: those states, it's really profound, like you feel like life
Speaker 1: is good. You know, it gives you this feeling that
Speaker 1: everything is going to be okay, Like we're built to
Speaker 1: receive this, you know, this goodness, and who can believe
Speaker 1: our body is capable of experiencing those pleasure There's also
Speaker 1: something really healing for the body to tap into that
Speaker 1: level of transcendence In the bedroom, the nervous system is
Speaker 1: super relaxed after orgasm. We know that when we're in
Speaker 1: a parasympathetic state, this is where healing can happen, so
Speaker 1: deeper sleep. So there's a lot of health benefits too.
Speaker 1: I want to call it impactful sex because not just
Speaker 1: any sex, because sex can trigger your trigger your nervous
Speaker 1: system and like actually trigger trauma. I've certainly had sexual
Speaker 1: experiences that have triggered trauma and not left my body
Speaker 1: feeling super restored. But I think the opportunity of educating
Speaker 1: yourself and being with partners who are educated is that
Speaker 1: those kinds of satiating sexual experiences that forward your personal
Speaker 1: development and spiritual growth is available in this lifetime, and
Speaker 1: if you have a desire to have them, then you can,
Speaker 1: you know, be one step closer to calling that towards you.
Speaker 1: I think the issue comes in when people feel they
Speaker 1: don't they don't deserve, or they're not worthy. And we
Speaker 1: see this come up a lot in long term relationships.
Speaker 1: You know, people are like, well, you know, the spark
Speaker 1: just went away. We've been together for fifteen years, and
Speaker 1: I just want to call big bullshit on all that.
Speaker 1: We work with people who are having some of the
Speaker 1: best sex of their lives into the later years of
Speaker 1: their life, and the spark is literally a chemical reaction
Speaker 1: that's happening in the brain. When you first meet somebody
Speaker 1: and you have great sex, there is this sort of
Speaker 1: spark that can that is there's something that's happening chemically
Speaker 1: in the brain. There there is actual sparking happening in
Speaker 1: the brain. And when that goes away after however many years,
Speaker 1: depending on the couple or whatever life circumstances come in
Speaker 1: to alter the desire that spark can be reignited. And
Speaker 1: so as an intimacy coach, this is what we this
Speaker 1: is what we do, is we really support people in
Speaker 1: creating the spark on an ongoing basis, you know. And
Speaker 1: how is it that not just me and my partners,
Speaker 1: but all of the amazing people that come through our
Speaker 1: programs that have partners, all experiencing that they feel more
Speaker 1: in love with their partner now. And that is amazing
Speaker 1: because nothing has changed except their mindset, except whatever is
Speaker 1: in the way of their own full self actualization in
Speaker 1: relationship their intimacy prior. I'd love to add on that medicine.
Speaker 1: Like one of one of the things I love about transcendence,
Speaker 1: what was reading your book is about the idea of
Speaker 1: transcendence love right, and that's more like be love like
Speaker 1: you are love. You are love, therefore you have love
Speaker 1: to give. And that's I think sexuality as a modality
Speaker 1: really gives opportunity for people to embody that kind of
Speaker 1: transcendence love and acceptance and celebration and then you could
Speaker 1: get yourself there and their intimacy that two people could
Speaker 1: build and I'm sure best and I've seen it in
Speaker 1: her coaching program over and over again like that is
Speaker 1: it never gets old, is what I love about it,
Speaker 1: you know, like when you witness people fall in love again,
Speaker 1: you know, after years because they have this new level
Speaker 1: of intimacy. The sexual connection is really fulfilling and that
Speaker 1: keeps keeps me going all the time because of that.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I'm thinking of maybe titling this episode how
Speaker 1: to have more sexual pleasure. So if I do title
Speaker 1: it that, let's let's spend some time talking about some
Speaker 1: practical things here, you know, so we live up to
Speaker 1: that title. And one thing I think it'd be good
Speaker 1: in this conversation. Let's first second, separate male empowerment sexual
Speaker 1: empowerment from female sexual empowerment, and let's just double click
Speaker 1: on female sexual empowerment. Then I want to talk about
Speaker 1: a male as well, but let's start on female sexual empowerment.
Speaker 1: What do you both of you and your experience and
Speaker 1: the science that you've looked at this as a science podcast,
Speaker 1: have you found are some of the biggest blocks for
Speaker 1: women being able to express their full sexuality without shame,
Speaker 1: without in its most fullest sense. You know, what are
Speaker 1: some things? So yeah, I want to talk about the
Speaker 1: orgasm gap. Actually in terms of female sexual and powerment.
Speaker 1: There was a study done in twenty sixteen from the
Speaker 1: Archives of Sexual Behavior. This included folks who were lesbian, gay,
Speaker 1: and bisexual FYI, and ninety five percent of heterosexual men
Speaker 1: reported that they usually are always orgasm during sex, and
Speaker 1: that was compared to only sixty five percent of heterosexual women,
Speaker 1: who were the least likely. And then the study it
Speaker 1: was also found that thirty nine percent of women said
Speaker 1: they always orgasm when they masturbate, compared to six percent
Speaker 1: during sex. So women say that they orgasm thirty nine
Speaker 1: percent when they masturbate, but when they have penetration with
Speaker 1: another partner it's six percent. And this is called the
Speaker 1: orgasm gap. And simply put, it's just that penis owners
Speaker 1: are coming a lot more than volvo owners. And so
Speaker 1: orgasm equality is really important understanding why do men reach
Speaker 1: orgasms so much more than women. And not to say
Speaker 1: that sexual empowerment means orgasm. However, a lot of women,
Speaker 1: you know, we just want to have good orgasms in
Speaker 1: the bedroom or at least have one right and so
Speaker 1: the entire Clitterist is my show that is a top
Speaker 1: rated sexuality podcast. The Pleasure Positive Podcast used to be
Speaker 1: called clit Talk for the first five years that we
Speaker 1: were in existence, and only we only changed our name
Speaker 1: just in November of twenty twenty two due to censorship.
Speaker 1: We're going to come back though, once we take over
Speaker 1: the world, We're going to come back as clit Talk. However,
Speaker 1: we've been really passionate about the clit conversation, and as
Speaker 1: I mentioned a little bit earlier, that was very empowering
Speaker 1: for us to discover that there were five different types
Speaker 1: of clits and to learn that me and my fellow
Speaker 1: partners over at the Pleasure Positive Podcast all had different
Speaker 1: clit sizes and we all could attest to the reality
Speaker 1: of that and how we were all liking those sensations
Speaker 1: that are for our style clit and learning that was
Speaker 1: very empowering. When it comes to female sexual power empowerment,
Speaker 1: there is a bit of an epidemic I think going
Speaker 1: on amongst our community, which is the sounds something like this.
Speaker 1: Maybe you've both heard this before, Well, he just didn't
Speaker 1: couldn't make me orgasm. There's so much in that statement.
Speaker 1: I love that because those are the perfect people to
Speaker 1: come to our program, because pleasure is your responsibility. If
Speaker 1: it's our body, it's our responsibility. We our body can
Speaker 1: already orgasm without that person. That means that nobody can
Speaker 1: make you come. They can just facilitate your body's own
Speaker 1: innate ability to do something. And so if we can
Speaker 1: start to understand that pleasure is our responsibility and we
Speaker 1: stop blaming our partner for our lack of pleasure or
Speaker 1: blaming the world that we don't have a partner to
Speaker 1: experience pleasure with, we can get really empowered around our
Speaker 1: personal sexual empowerment because then it's so exciting that it's like,
Speaker 1: pleasure is my responsibility. Well, now it's what do I
Speaker 1: want to learn? What do I want to do? What
Speaker 1: do I want to know? And that's a beautiful, beautiful
Speaker 1: place to be when it comes to sexual empowerment for females. Wow, Kenneth,
Speaker 1: I know that you do workshops. You did a scorting
Speaker 1: workshop recently the advice covered and there's a YouTube. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'll put the link in the show notes. And you
Speaker 1: start off your sessions with the discussion of the science
Speaker 1: behind it is that right, Yeah, I think their orgasm
Speaker 1: gap and the pleasure gap has many reasons behind it.
Speaker 1: So scientifically speaking, when you look at as male arousal
Speaker 1: and malgenital like when we get arouse, we see erection.
Speaker 1: It's very clear that you see your own penis being
Speaker 1: erect and is really easy to access it and manipulate
Speaker 1: in a way to give yourself consistent stimulation to reach orgasm.
Speaker 1: So if you're the person with a penis, you are
Speaker 1: doing the penetrating, just say right, you could calibrate your
Speaker 1: own sensation the way that it feels good to you
Speaker 1: consistent enough to reach orgasm. So the problem is that
Speaker 1: when in a typical heterosexual couple standpoint, if you're on
Speaker 1: the receptive end, you're just being penetrated and you don't
Speaker 1: have that much control over the sensation you're receiving and
Speaker 1: you're not moving your body to generate the sensation consistently,
Speaker 1: then you might not have their appropriate of your actual
Speaker 1: preference of how you like to be similar to reach orgasm.
Speaker 1: So there is sort of first we like think two
Speaker 1: P and V sex is the only sex is a
Speaker 1: huge sex myth, Right, It's about the receiving consistent stimulation
Speaker 1: that works for you, that drives up arousal. So and
Speaker 1: unfortunately we don't teach females how to take charge of
Speaker 1: creating that sensation that feels good like it's not just
Speaker 1: on the receptive end. So that's one thing, But it's
Speaker 1: crazy that we think female orgasm is more difficult and
Speaker 1: harder to reach and more complicated. It's totally I see
Speaker 1: their pleasure and orgastic potential and female body way better
Speaker 1: than male. If I get if there's such thing as
Speaker 1: I get to come back the second time, I totally
Speaker 1: want to clit and a female brain instead of a
Speaker 1: penis and a male brain because I see the sheer
Speaker 1: amount of orgasmic potential extended orgasm, and forty seven percent
Speaker 1: of female have reported in the org Yes research that
Speaker 1: they are capable of having multiple orgasm. In order for
Speaker 1: most male body people to have multiple orgasm, they really
Speaker 1: have to train themselves to separate ejaculation from the subjective
Speaker 1: experience of orgasm, right like the contraction and they're feeling
Speaker 1: in their brain. Also, I think Emily Legaci in her
Speaker 1: book their comments, your is really important to talk about
Speaker 1: erotic context because it's not just the physical sensation. So
Speaker 1: it's not just body just sexual stimulation. You have to
Speaker 1: have an erotic context that arousessue. So you might be
Speaker 1: receiving the sensation, but you're totally turned off by the situation.
Speaker 1: So we don't talk about how important is to have
Speaker 1: the right erotic context with the rtosexual stimulation. But it's
Speaker 1: also not rocket science. So if you could make sure
Speaker 1: that person has aroused, relaxed enough, and getting the sensation
Speaker 1: that that person prefer and most of the time, so
Speaker 1: usually you could tell by their masturbation habit if they
Speaker 1: usually come this way, they already have the conditioning, like
Speaker 1: the neuro conditioning that this path is trained, so it
Speaker 1: works most of the time. So imagine you are a
Speaker 1: straight guy having a first time hook up right with
Speaker 1: someone and they said, hey, we're not going to touch
Speaker 1: the head of your penis. You never have an orgasm
Speaker 1: with your prostate. We just got to peg you and
Speaker 1: we expect you to have an orgasm. Of course, it
Speaker 1: doesn't work because this person never learned. You could learn
Speaker 1: to have a prostate orgasm, right, it could work, but
Speaker 1: that is not the preferred way for this individual. So
Speaker 1: it's so and for most male they will live a
Speaker 1: entire they will die happy, right, only able to come
Speaker 1: from stimulation of their penis, right, never touched their prostate.
Speaker 1: But and yet at the same time, we you know,
Speaker 1: there's so many sex myth like a matrol orgasm is
Speaker 1: to like internal stimulation. So doesn't matter if your biological
Speaker 1: sex as male, female, there's internal sensation, it could feel
Speaker 1: an external sensation, and they're distinct ran a different pathway.
Speaker 1: One is more somatic and one is more a visual
Speaker 1: where it's like this full body experience and that preference.
Speaker 1: It really depends on the individual. Doesn't matter what sex,
Speaker 1: what a biological sex, to your gender expression, to your
Speaker 1: orientation is. It's just just like I like spicy versus
Speaker 1: I like sweet. It's just two different flavor. Some people
Speaker 1: like a blend of those twos, and people like individual.
Speaker 1: But most of the time when you put if you
Speaker 1: put a straight couple on a hookup situation of the
Speaker 1: first time sex, they're just not having the stimulation that
Speaker 1: does it for them. They're trying to do this thing
Speaker 1: that is not reliable for most people. So I really
Speaker 1: am so passionate to end the myth that like female
Speaker 1: orgasm is more difficult, the harder to pleasure. I don't
Speaker 1: think so. In fact, I think is easier and better
Speaker 1: and we just need better education on how to do
Speaker 1: it the literal part, Like if your female partner don't
Speaker 1: want to tell you what they like and don't and
Speaker 1: don't know what they like, go with the lowest hanging fruit,
Speaker 1: because we know more female will prefer external stimulation to
Speaker 1: reach orgasm than internal alone, So make sure you touch
Speaker 1: the clip like most penis owner, most guys would like
Speaker 1: the head of the penis touch doing sex in order
Speaker 1: to have orgasm. So I think it would just do that,
Speaker 1: more people would have more orgasms. Wow, I hope people
Speaker 1: are taking notes here who are listening to this? So
Speaker 1: I mean, if people really applied your research in the
Speaker 1: fullest way, do you see in that positive on the
Speaker 1: world totally? Because it's not that difficult. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: when I was writing the book is maybe one collar
Speaker 1: semester worth of information, but no one really regrets being
Speaker 1: great in dead and is really not that hard, right, Like,
Speaker 1: and once you learn, you are so much better than
Speaker 1: the people who are not educated. I love this analogy.
Speaker 1: JACKO have this amazing like more Military Leadership podcast he
Speaker 1: talks about you know, if you if you if someone
Speaker 1: gives you a puzzle that you never saw before, right,
Speaker 1: and then it seems like how the hell this puzzle
Speaker 1: is solved? But once you see it once, then you
Speaker 1: never forget how that puzzle itself. Why wouldn't you? We
Speaker 1: want to watch how people solve all those puzzles already.
Speaker 1: This is not new puzzles, like humans been around forever.
Speaker 1: We have figured out how to do all of those things.
Speaker 1: But if you could watch people already did that, then
Speaker 1: you you your education will perceive your experience, and then
Speaker 1: you could you could approach this situation with so much
Speaker 1: more insight. So if you just winging it and go instinctiow,
Speaker 1: then you all like different than you're getting into a fistfight, right,
Speaker 1: you never learn how to fight. But if you had
Speaker 1: three months worth of training in you worlds apart, so
Speaker 1: you don't have to be the best fighter in the UFC,
Speaker 1: but that you know one semester worth of investment. Is
Speaker 1: the gap is like so big and sometimes people like
Speaker 1: what they need to correct, what they need to calibrate,
Speaker 1: it's just two millimeters away. Like I have coach client,
Speaker 1: she just don't like a clip lick directly slightly above
Speaker 1: the hood. That's all the difference is that tiny, right,
Speaker 1: and yet never reach aorgasm to reaching algasm consistently. So
Speaker 1: that's why I value this. It's amazing. I'd like to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about male sexual empowerment and maybe
Speaker 1: some misconceptions there because I don't hear as much about that.
Speaker 1: There's so much and maybe it's a correction for the past,
Speaker 1: but all these kind of workshops and things there seems
Speaker 1: to be such a focus on women or and rightly
Speaker 1: so for a lot of ways. But do you think
Speaker 1: there are some misconceptions that we have about male sexual
Speaker 1: pleasure that all the male needs to do is ejaculate,
Speaker 1: for instance, and then they're satisfied and that's about the
Speaker 1: height of their satisfaction, you know, so we we don't
Speaker 1: need to have any workshops for them because that's Do
Speaker 1: you think that there are some of these kinds of
Speaker 1: misk is that a misconception? For instance, being rock hard
Speaker 1: on command is part of that, Like those myths, right,
Speaker 1: those man myths they need to be rock hard on command,
Speaker 1: that you know, their penises can't go flaccid during sex.
Speaker 1: All of these are myths like these are absolutely and
Speaker 1: and from personal experience dating several different men and also
Speaker 1: being married to a man, I'm finding, like a comment,
Speaker 1: I'm doing like my own primary research right now, I
Speaker 1: get like a five male lovers, including my husband, and
Speaker 1: I'm like seeing a common denominator between all of them,
Speaker 1: which is that to actually be turned on, they need
Speaker 1: emotional connection. These are just happens to be with the
Speaker 1: men that I'm connecting with. I don't think, I don't
Speaker 1: want to put blanket statement and say that everyone requires
Speaker 1: emotional connection to be turned on. But what I am
Speaker 1: finding is the men that I'm connecting with that are
Speaker 1: very the very they usually are on the spectrum of bisexual,
Speaker 1: pan sexual, queer, you know, more leaning towards the desire
Speaker 1: of having a female partner. Right, So that level of
Speaker 1: like where they are in terms of their sexuality and
Speaker 1: orientation is like they want to manifest a female partner. However,
Speaker 1: they couldn't imagine going the rest of their life without
Speaker 1: being able to be with the same sex and with
Speaker 1: the very heart opened individuals, you know, nice balance of
Speaker 1: masculine and feminine energy, not overly masculine males. Okay, so
Speaker 1: I'm asto sort of setting like a like, this is
Speaker 1: what my pool of research, getting pigs in my research
Speaker 1: study are. Okay, I'm giving you like my sample group
Speaker 1: here and for these for these people, they all require
Speaker 1: this emotional connection. This is new for me. I started
Speaker 1: my journey of sexuality hating when anyone would text me
Speaker 1: after I slept with them, like I was like, oh what,
Speaker 1: Like I just wanted casual sex. I didn't want any
Speaker 1: emotional ties. I didn't really want to talk much about
Speaker 1: it to being. You know, once I actually got educated
Speaker 1: and had my own transformation through my own sexual awakening,
Speaker 1: I realized that my very nature is to actually grap
Speaker 1: founded upon having an emotional connection before having sex. So
Speaker 1: to me, that makes sense. I'm attracting that which I
Speaker 1: am putting out my own values, and I also believe
Speaker 1: like that is I'm interested in only really having sexual
Speaker 1: connections with people who also value that. That's a sort
Speaker 1: of long way of answering your question. A thing I
Speaker 1: do think that it is. I do think that men
Speaker 1: want more than just penetration. And I'm going to allow
Speaker 1: the man sexpert here to speak to the rest of this.
Speaker 1: I totally agree with sort of dispressure on having a
Speaker 1: erection on demand like lasting as long as all night
Speaker 1: long and have a rock hard dick. And there's a
Speaker 1: whole industry that reinforced that would with the patterna viabra
Speaker 1: like past their time than this tons of company selling
Speaker 1: penis pill everywhere. We kind of reduce male sexuality to
Speaker 1: a heart erection, right and how long it go lasts
Speaker 1: That does not take into the account of their erotic
Speaker 1: mind and the sexual erotic context that we find so
Speaker 1: pledgeable and to Madison's porn there, you know, I do
Speaker 1: my feel I know a lot of strippers and erotic
Speaker 1: dancer and they would always say, most of the time
Speaker 1: the guys are coming in, you think they just want
Speaker 1: to see TNA And for a lot of them, they
Speaker 1: actually want to someone to listen to them and have
Speaker 1: a girlfriend experience, having someone to care about what's going
Speaker 1: on with them. So there is this like connection nurturing
Speaker 1: sense that male sexuality doesn't get to talk about. Also,
Speaker 1: you know, to correct some other historical trauma between the sexes.
Speaker 1: I think there is a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: straight guys and that doesn't have to be only short guys,
Speaker 1: but have find it very confusing to express their masculine
Speaker 1: side or what turns them on. So they feel like,
Speaker 1: in order for them to be a good human, they
Speaker 1: have to be like very very gentle and soft, and
Speaker 1: they're like conflicting with their like they just don't know
Speaker 1: how to negotiate that type of sex, right, So they
Speaker 1: feel like, in order for me to fit in, I
Speaker 1: have to forego all the things that I naturally like
Speaker 1: gravitate towards in order to be a good human. And
Speaker 1: I think it's quite confusing. And I work with a
Speaker 1: lot of men. I think like there's definitely some asshole
Speaker 1: that in the world that is sort of like, then
Speaker 1: I'm never going to change, that's who they are. But
Speaker 1: there's so such a large population of genuinely giving human
Speaker 1: being that just happened to be in a male body
Speaker 1: that they care about their partner's pleasure, they care about
Speaker 1: their own pleasure, and they just don't know what is
Speaker 1: the right way to express it in twenty twenty three
Speaker 1: and is changing so fast and it's so confusing, And
Speaker 1: then you have this resurgeon of like old school misogyny
Speaker 1: from Andrew Tate's side of the world, right, So it's tricky,
Speaker 1: like the swing back from the other side. So I
Speaker 1: truly feel that this also is a great opportunity for
Speaker 1: us to prepare the next generation to have a more
Speaker 1: transcendence in their sexual expression and to create more harmony
Speaker 1: between the sexes and support each other and love each
Speaker 1: other so more than just a hard dick. There is
Speaker 1: a lot of confusion, and I hope it. I hope
Speaker 1: there will be more more educational program for male and
Speaker 1: my own sex coach, Dustin Gerrick, I did his. I
Speaker 1: did his program where I was in a room with
Speaker 1: fifty men who deal with premature ejaculation and they have
Speaker 1: this amazing coaching program that I have seen people will
Speaker 1: struggle with this whole life. Do the training, like the workouts,
Speaker 1: and then able to reach ejaculate ejaculatory choice, meaning you
Speaker 1: could choose when you want to ejaculate. So it's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1: But what was so like, what is so heart wrenching,
Speaker 1: is to hear their story about how much they're shamed
Speaker 1: because if they believe they are a premature ejaculator, and
Speaker 1: to go back to the science because I love the
Speaker 1: signs too. If you are born in a female body
Speaker 1: and you have an excitatory system that just go straight
Speaker 1: up right and you don't have much of an inhibitory system,
Speaker 1: and you're able to reach orgasm over and over again quickly.
Speaker 1: Then you are celebrated if you're in a female body.
Speaker 1: But if you're born with the same nervous system in
Speaker 1: a male body, you become a premature ejaculator and you
Speaker 1: come too easily and you are worthless in the bedroom.
Speaker 1: So when I see that, it is really so for
Speaker 1: those people who born with that nervous system, they have
Speaker 1: to train how to like manage that, right, But it
Speaker 1: just it really depends. So I think a lot of
Speaker 1: men show goal which like different sexual issue or don't
Speaker 1: know why their wife don't want to a sex with them,
Speaker 1: you know, like for the last twenty years, and they
Speaker 1: have to deal with their own like rejection, Like am
Speaker 1: I not like sexually attractive to you? So I do
Speaker 1: think we need to to give attention to to males too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a very beautiful everything you just said. I think
Speaker 1: that we would be remiss if we didn't talk about
Speaker 1: penis size in this episode, since it's it's always like
Speaker 1: the elephant in the room among men, you know, can
Speaker 1: you can we get the elephant and put it right
Speaker 1: in front of us for a second, and just confront
Speaker 1: it and tell me about your own personal experience, Kenneth,
Speaker 1: because you have been so vulnerable and honest about your
Speaker 1: own journey with us. Yeah. I'm trying to find a
Speaker 1: diagram of my book. So, so here's all the penis sized, right, good?
Speaker 1: Good one screen capture. Yeah, yeah, so just say average,
Speaker 1: what's the size of the one at the bottom? The
Speaker 1: bottom is the bottom? Twenty five percent is greater, the
Speaker 1: biggest the two percent points dot com is eight inches
Speaker 1: and above, so that's two percent of the population. Twenty
Speaker 1: three percent is in the six point two five six
Speaker 1: six and a quarter inches to eight inches. Most of
Speaker 1: the population is in the four point seven five to
Speaker 1: six and a quarter. So I am a prow average
Speaker 1: sized penis owner at five point six inches, it's kind
Speaker 1: of smack in the middle. What's the bottom we're talking
Speaker 1: about length? The bottom one is less than four point
Speaker 1: seven five What comes to the micro I think it's
Speaker 1: in their one in their one and two and a
Speaker 1: half inch range. Yeah, so, and those are very rare, okay,
Speaker 1: So is the is the message there that it's more
Speaker 1: like about the technique? You know, at at a certain point,
Speaker 1: men focus too much on the size that it kind
Speaker 1: of gets in their head and they're not doing the
Speaker 1: things that actually pleasure women, I mean, or men. I
Speaker 1: should say we should not just be hetero sexual oriented. Here,
Speaker 1: what are some takeaways here? I don't want to put
Speaker 1: words in your mouth mediicine, if you don't mind me
Speaker 1: talking just so passionate, I can't. And also I can't
Speaker 1: believe I was so insecure about my penis size from
Speaker 1: most of my early adulthood. I wouldn't let people like
Speaker 1: reach from my pants because I am so scared of
Speaker 1: they actually see my penis. They were rejecting me right
Speaker 1: then and there, and my hopest dreams would be all
Speaker 1: over so so coming. And then now talking about the
Speaker 1: internet on the internet all the time about my advertised
Speaker 1: penis is mind blowing to me. But I don't take away.
Speaker 1: I think it's empowering. I think I just want to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's really important that we have this myth
Speaker 1: that bigger is better, so we treat sex like a
Speaker 1: basketball game is better if you're taller, and that is
Speaker 1: not the case when it comes to sexual pleasure. It
Speaker 1: has to do with genital fit. So what I mean
Speaker 1: by fit is that you have and also on the book,
Speaker 1: I did not just penis size but vaginal size. So
Speaker 1: it's two things. Right, It's like a shoe to a foot.
Speaker 1: A pleasure fit is way more important, and most of
Speaker 1: the time it fits well because based on like Bell
Speaker 1: curve distribution, mostly bore somewhere in the middle and most
Speaker 1: vaginas somewhere in the middle. So the pleasure fit percentage
Speaker 1: is very, very high. Now, that doesn't mean that there's
Speaker 1: no size cleans out there. While there are people that
Speaker 1: does not put for penetration whatsoever, they do exist. But
Speaker 1: we are so hung up on on like because we
Speaker 1: are we have so much sexual images from porn that
Speaker 1: you only see. It's like, imagine your whole life you
Speaker 1: only watch NBA games, So your idea of height is
Speaker 1: that so you have no idea and is not necessarily
Speaker 1: more pleasurable. Right for some people, like what really gets
Speaker 1: them off is a huge genus before majority of people
Speaker 1: on the planet is really like, if you know your technique,
Speaker 1: he arouse enough, it will provide the right amount of
Speaker 1: stimulation that will that will lead to orgasm. So if
Speaker 1: that was true, then if you think about sex toy sale,
Speaker 1: the only toy that would buys the biggest deal, though
Speaker 1: they could find right that that's not the case. Vibrator,
Speaker 1: I'll sell BUILDO any day. But we reinforce that culturally.
Speaker 1: And also there is you know, a population of women
Speaker 1: that want to read to continue that myth as saying, oh,
Speaker 1: I like a hook up the sky if the largest
Speaker 1: penis or big dick energy. So we have this cultural
Speaker 1: reinforcement of this myth that bigger is better. Now again,
Speaker 1: some people do prefer that, but not always at not
Speaker 1: high enough to make that generalization. So I think finding
Speaker 1: the right pleasure fit that will lead you to more
Speaker 1: pleasurable or more orgasmic experience is the gold standard. So
Speaker 1: you could you could HOUSEO have a lover who who
Speaker 1: go in with a gigantic penis. They think they're like
Speaker 1: like they have the magic stick syndrome. So they think
Speaker 1: they're God's gift because of their dick, and they put
Speaker 1: you no effort into it, and they're terrible lovers. So
Speaker 1: it really depends, you know, and and yeah, so that's
Speaker 1: my experience on my side, and I'm I'm sure Madison
Speaker 1: have a lot more to add on on their flip side.
Speaker 1: I definitely can't wait to hear what Madison has to
Speaker 1: think about penis size. But I just wanted to say
Speaker 1: real quick my own personal experience. You know, it's been
Speaker 1: I've found with women, at least maybe it's the one
Speaker 1: I'm with. The psychological aspect is what turns them on
Speaker 1: so much. There it's like, I just feel like that's
Speaker 1: not discussed nearly as much. It's almost like the penis
Speaker 1: sizes and afterthought, you know, or like it's like it's
Speaker 1: not like the primary thing on the woman's mind. There's
Speaker 1: sort of like if there's a great psychologic connection, like
Speaker 1: this big psychological component where two people are connecting with
Speaker 1: each other in a in a like a really sexy way,
Speaker 1: you know, there isn't there psychological sexiness And that's an
Speaker 1: interesting construct. So I just wanted to put that out there,
Speaker 1: and Madison, I'd love to hear thoughts about penis science.
Speaker 1: Of course, that's interesting that you're just speaking to what
Speaker 1: you just shared, because I'm now I'm like, I'll get
Speaker 1: to what I was going to say in a moment. Uh,
Speaker 1: this is interesting. I'm like, I'm like I can't totally
Speaker 1: relate to that. I'm like, hmm, do I have And
Speaker 1: I think that's where like the expertise corded sort of
Speaker 1: sways my own, it creates a bias because I think
Speaker 1: I've unlearned that. I've just noticed that before I started
Speaker 1: the podcast seven years ago and went on this my
Speaker 1: own journey of sexual exploration and then my own pleasure
Speaker 1: research for the last six and a half years, Big
Speaker 1: Dicks did psychologically turn me on. In fact, when I
Speaker 1: would be with certain levers. The first thing, I'm totally
Speaker 1: in full transparency right now, I'm just telling on myself.
Speaker 1: This is making me remember like how I used to interact,
Speaker 1: like in college, Like the first thing I would look
Speaker 1: at is their penis and have some sort of assessment
Speaker 1: about it, dependent on its size, dependence on its you know, thickness,
Speaker 1: and what I thought that I liked. And my only
Speaker 1: frame of reference was my high school boyfriend that I
Speaker 1: lost my virginity to by the time I got into college. Right, So,
Speaker 1: and he had I would say, an average maybe the
Speaker 1: second to the one above average, Kenneth, what was that percentile?
Speaker 1: Was that? Six? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, And so I was comparing,
Speaker 1: and I think we live in a very comparative world,
Speaker 1: and psychologically we're constantly comparing right, and as a polyamorous
Speaker 1: woman that this is something that comes up. People ask
Speaker 1: me all the time, how do you not compare your
Speaker 1: partner to other partners? And to say that I don't
Speaker 1: wouldn't be true. But I have power over that. I
Speaker 1: have power over my psychology that wants to compare and
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I like him more right now? And
Speaker 1: then I have my consciousness and grounded in my commitment
Speaker 1: what I'm committed to that keeps me married to my husband,
Speaker 1: not leaving him for the next you know better nick
Speaker 1: that I find or whatever. But pre working on myself,
Speaker 1: I did make that evaluation about my male lover. So
Speaker 1: I'm relating to how you must have this experience. And
Speaker 1: where I'm not relating any more is because as I
Speaker 1: went on this own journey and my awareness expanded about
Speaker 1: what sex really is, I now understand and I've been
Speaker 1: in a place for several years where I understand that
Speaker 1: penis size and sex are not correlated in any way.
Speaker 1: So how's your are you? Have you changed in terms
Speaker 1: of your arousal based on a man's penisize? Has Have
Speaker 1: you changed it? Absolutely? A hundred percent? I mean I
Speaker 1: can say, okay, my thoughts on and this is I'll
Speaker 1: go speak to. What I was going to share on
Speaker 1: my thoughts on penisize is Oh yeah, I have some
Speaker 1: of the best sex with my lovers that don't have
Speaker 1: what would be considered an larger penis. And Kenneth and
Speaker 1: I talked about this on the show and we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: only if it moves the conversation forward. And I feel
Speaker 1: like it really moves the conversation forward, Kenneth, So I'm
Speaker 1: gonna die right. I got the privilege of having a
Speaker 1: sexual experience with mister Kenneth Play. I say privileged because
Speaker 1: this man knows what he's doing. He not only practices
Speaker 1: what he preaches, but like I can say from experience,
Speaker 1: but an endorsementorsement satisfied, I literally call my business. But
Speaker 1: this was an edge for me because I've interviewed Kenneth
Speaker 1: on our podcast three times and I have a sexuality podcast,
Speaker 1: so sexual harassment gets a little blurry, you know. We
Speaker 1: just kind of are like and we sort of have
Speaker 1: a general rule that we won't date our guests as
Speaker 1: our best sexual harassment policy. Basically, it's to stop me
Speaker 1: from asking out all of the sexy people we interview
Speaker 1: because I will I would have, but nonetheless I was
Speaker 1: going to New York. And I want to share this
Speaker 1: inside of the context of the importance of going after
Speaker 1: our deepest desires as it relates to maximizing sexual pleasure.
Speaker 1: When we don't go after our desires, there's a lack
Speaker 1: of fulfillment from a psychological standpoint. When we go after
Speaker 1: things that excite us, we have adrenaline, We literally like
Speaker 1: get a rush, yeah, and that in the bedroom, we
Speaker 1: can actually edge ourselves an orgasm. Maybe you've heard this
Speaker 1: term of edging, and for anyone that's listening that doesn't
Speaker 1: know what edging is, it's the idea of literally bringing
Speaker 1: yourself as close to orgasm as possible and then pulling back,
Speaker 1: and then getting as close to orgasm impossible and pulling
Speaker 1: back and playing with that what we call that edge spot,
Speaker 1: and it can be incredibly pleasurable and allow for really
Speaker 1: expansive states of orgasm. So, now, if we apply this
Speaker 1: physical practice of edging in our body and we make
Speaker 1: it be more of a metaphor for life when it
Speaker 1: comes to our desires, when we go after our desires,
Speaker 1: it's an edge, and when we reach an edge in
Speaker 1: our body, we can expand the sensations within it. So
Speaker 1: when we go toward something in our life that's a desire,
Speaker 1: that's an edge and we reach it, that enlivens us
Speaker 1: and it does something to the body that there's adrenaline,
Speaker 1: there is serotonin that gets released, and it's very exhilarating,
Speaker 1: it's very exciting. And so one of our core philosophies
Speaker 1: and belief us alongside that we are responsible for our
Speaker 1: pleasure and is nobody's responsibility but our own. We also
Speaker 1: really believe that as a practice as a lifestyle, to
Speaker 1: actively engage with your desires is instrumental to your pleasure,
Speaker 1: both in and out of the bedroom. And I would say,
Speaker 1: like this would go to somebody who for even outside
Speaker 1: the bedroom. Example, someone who isn't a job that they
Speaker 1: hate and they know it, but they stay in it
Speaker 1: because of fear limiting beliefs, et cetera. But really they
Speaker 1: want to start a restaurant. They love cooking, They come
Speaker 1: home from work their safe haven, and they gets because
Speaker 1: they've always wanted to open a restaurant. I would say,
Speaker 1: for the well that person's well being mentally, physically, emotionally,
Speaker 1: and spiritually in this lifetime, all right, maybe they don't
Speaker 1: need to quit their job overnight. They should definitely take
Speaker 1: some actions to start that restaurant they always dreamed of.
Speaker 1: There's something when it comes to personal fulfillment that when
Speaker 1: we suppress our truth, which is our deepest desires are
Speaker 1: our truth, there is something deeply healthy about being in
Speaker 1: that kind of relationship with one's desires and recognizing. So
Speaker 1: my whole thing is have the courage to live your truth.
Speaker 1: If you can have the courage to live your truth,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be putting yourself in a position to have
Speaker 1: a lot more pleasurable experiences in this lifetime. Going back
Speaker 1: to my asking Kenneth out in a way that was
Speaker 1: appropriate or as appropriate and as it could be since
Speaker 1: we are two colleagues, here, I connected with my desire.
Speaker 1: My desire was to at the essence, was to at
Speaker 1: least meet Kenneth play in person. Right, I had a
Speaker 1: deeper desire to go on a date with Kenneth, but
Speaker 1: I wasn't in a place where I was feeling super
Speaker 1: courageous about just asking him out. So as I needed
Speaker 1: to meet myself where I was at, and where I
Speaker 1: was at was and this is what we do with
Speaker 1: desire mapping technology is we look at the essence of
Speaker 1: a desire, because sometimes with desires it could be like, ah,
Speaker 1: how do I do that? It seems so big? But
Speaker 1: if we can baby step toward them, we can actually
Speaker 1: create a path that leads to it. And I think
Speaker 1: another important thing to mention inside of this is going
Speaker 1: after our desires doesn't mean we're going to get it.
Speaker 1: It's like the nature of asking for what we want.
Speaker 1: Just because we had the courage to ask it doesn't
Speaker 1: mean we're going to get it. And there's a grace
Speaker 1: to being with a no as well. And so I
Speaker 1: didn't want to just ask him out out of you
Speaker 1: know and get the know. So I sent an email
Speaker 1: to his assistant and I just said, Hey, I'm going
Speaker 1: to be in New York. I would love to meet
Speaker 1: Kenneth if this is something that Kenneth would available for.
Speaker 1: This is my cell phone number and he's welcome to
Speaker 1: reach out to me directly to book a time. And
Speaker 1: I was very pleased when I got that text message
Speaker 1: later that night from Kenneth in fact following up about
Speaker 1: us getting to meet in New York. And I feel
Speaker 1: like I should add to this that if I didn't
Speaker 1: reach out to him. Part of what inspired that was
Speaker 1: I was imagining being in New York and him not
Speaker 1: knowing and coming back and what that would have felt like.
Speaker 1: And I was like, that would have felt there would
Speaker 1: have been a bit of a disappointment within myself that
Speaker 1: I didn't confront whatever the psychological perceived psychological fears were,
Speaker 1: which is really just rejection. And so I was like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm breaking through that because there's no way I'm coming
Speaker 1: back from this trip and at least not having made
Speaker 1: the effort to know that I took action toward this desire.
Speaker 1: And we ended up having a date. That's what it
Speaker 1: ended up coming to. I don't know if you want
Speaker 1: to like add in here anything, Kenneth, but feel free
Speaker 1: to chime in if you do, and just cut me off.
Speaker 1: That'll turn me on. And so we went on this
Speaker 1: amazing date and it was for me. I called after
Speaker 1: the date. I called my business partners at Cliptok and
Speaker 1: they were just living to know. I'm sorry, we've rebranded,
Speaker 1: so I keep calling our company our old name. We
Speaker 1: are the Pleasure Positive Living and we are the Pleasure
Speaker 1: Positive Podcast. So my partner's over there, We're living to
Speaker 1: hear about how this was, and they asked and I
Speaker 1: was like, well, I'm just glad I don't live in
Speaker 1: New York because he ruined sex for me. And that
Speaker 1: was really but no, it was so enjoyable. And part
Speaker 1: of that is, you know what an amazing opportunity for
Speaker 1: two people in our industry to get to connect. I
Speaker 1: date a lot of people who are not in my
Speaker 1: industry and don't know what kinds of conversations to have
Speaker 1: to create really expansive sexual experiences. And so for me,
Speaker 1: I was absolutely in heaven. And just to be completely
Speaker 1: frank about it, it was the one of the best
Speaker 1: sexual experiences ever had in my entire life. And I
Speaker 1: have also had sex with penises that were larger, and
Speaker 1: they were nowhere near in the same fucking dimension as
Speaker 1: the sexual experience that I had with Kenna. So that
Speaker 1: is just a huge endorsement to say that not only
Speaker 1: does penis size not matter, but when it comes to
Speaker 1: multiple orgasms, it's not necessary, it's not required at all. Wow,
Speaker 1: there's a topic in psycho and Psychologist, so your blessing,
Speaker 1: I'm getting all hot about it again. But yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a there's a thing called meat copying in psychology that
Speaker 1: taps in evolutionary psychology principles. And I'm sure Kenneth is
Speaker 1: going to get even more phone calls after this. But
Speaker 1: by Kenneth, let me let me ask you a question.
Speaker 1: Do you find that this work you do puts you
Speaker 1: at risk at all of being objectified once women find out.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that Madison objectified you, but I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm broadening out for a second. Just ask you this,
Speaker 1: Can I objectify you? Though? I'm open to that feed
Speaker 1: and no, I totally it totally turns me onto and
Speaker 1: I had the biggest crush on you. But like, we
Speaker 1: all have this professionalism. So it was really beautiful how
Speaker 1: we talk and negotiate and we and kind of we
Speaker 1: move to ambiguity and go like, hey, like you know
Speaker 1: what kind of experienced we want? We could talk about
Speaker 1: what we desire before we even get to It wasn't
Speaker 1: like hey, let's get really drunk and then we roll
Speaker 1: back to my place and have sex. It was you. Actually,
Speaker 1: I love the conversation like so much prior to us
Speaker 1: playing because we were both has sort of the language
Speaker 1: and the education to talk about what we both desire,
Speaker 1: what we want out of it, how we want to
Speaker 1: be treated, and how to navigate this complexity with a
Speaker 1: work relationship to a personal connection. So I really appreciate
Speaker 1: just having that level of conversation. Besides the beautiful experience
Speaker 1: that we share. The other point that I really want
Speaker 1: to add about, like going back to a little bit
Speaker 1: about the penis size, I want to emphasize why this,
Speaker 1: Like they have to study what women prefer as far
Speaker 1: as penisize when it comes to a casual encounter versus
Speaker 1: their long term relationship. So they usually prefer penises that
Speaker 1: are slightly larger for a one time hookup. And it
Speaker 1: has a lot I wish I could dig up. We
Speaker 1: call the study which study it was, but what was
Speaker 1: interesting is that a visual system respawn to things that
Speaker 1: we see bigger visually faster. So they did another study
Speaker 1: with like this animal just like shape the objects. So
Speaker 1: if you could put a bigger egg, they'd be more
Speaker 1: attracted to it, like a like a fake egg. So
Speaker 1: just a way that we respond to a Burger King
Speaker 1: commercial when you know that burger is quite like processed
Speaker 1: food and disgusting, but the visual really does it for us,
Speaker 1: so it would trigger our desire hunger even though we
Speaker 1: know that doesn't taste that good or is not as
Speaker 1: good as a burger from other restaurants. So I don't
Speaker 1: think that myth is good to disappeared overnight. That's why
Speaker 1: I told people are attracted because we lay such a
Speaker 1: visual symbol of it. But ultimately, what I've found time
Speaker 1: after time and it can't go back to online dating
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three. We cannot. We cannot get away
Speaker 1: from those queue that causes us to be attracted to
Speaker 1: something like is it money, status and everything else? But
Speaker 1: when it comes down to actual experience, kindness and pleasure
Speaker 1: and respect means a lot more than just being tall,
Speaker 1: being rich and have a six pack, or having a
Speaker 1: seven figure income. So yes, it could fool us in
Speaker 1: the beginning, but at the end, when we get to
Speaker 1: experience this fully, then you realize what value really is.
Speaker 1: It really comes down to connection and kindness and mutual pleasure.
Speaker 1: So I think that's why this is so complicated, because
Speaker 1: it is hard for us to make those choices right,
Speaker 1: But what's good for us, what's really actually good for
Speaker 1: us different than and sometimes what we're attracted to, wain't
Speaker 1: that the truth? Also, what we're attracted to is not
Speaker 1: always put a good correct Yeah, and yeah, it kind
Speaker 1: of that that demean of life, as justin Lee Miller,
Speaker 1: who's been on this podcast has we have a whole
Speaker 1: a whole episode on that topic, you know, in embracing
Speaker 1: your maybe not put a good correct desires. And then
Speaker 1: consensuality is obviously so important here. And I love that
Speaker 1: chapter in your book by the way, Kenneth on consensuality.
Speaker 1: That was great. I just want to thank you both
Speaker 1: so much for being on my podcast and for your
Speaker 1: your openness, your vulnerability, and for empowering people to as
Speaker 1: I would put it, have more sexual actualization, you know,
Speaker 1: of their of their full sexual potential. So thanks for
Speaker 1: all the great work you're both doing. Thank you, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Yeah, it's been such a privilege to
Speaker 1: come on this podcast with your medisone and and Scott,
Speaker 1: like I've been in such a fan boy when I
Speaker 1: first met you, and I love your book and thank you.
Speaker 1: It's also about talent and the gift. It was like,
Speaker 1: I know, like as your earlier book, but that is
Speaker 1: such like my favorite book. So you guys are are
Speaker 1: listening to check out that first book that I related
Speaker 1: to it so much, and actually that's the book that
Speaker 1: I want to listen to. I cry a little at
Speaker 1: the gym because I like, I so relate to those feelings,
Speaker 1: you know, and being this laxic learning disability. So I
Speaker 1: just I just love what you do and thank you
Speaker 1: for continuing to sharing it with the world. I feel
Speaker 1: the love here. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this
Speaker 1: episode of The Psychology Podcast. If you'd like to react
Speaker 1: in some way to something you heard, I encourage you
Speaker 1: to join in the discussion at Dousycology podcast dot com.
Speaker 1: We're on our YouTube page, The Psychology Podcast. We also
Speaker 1: put up some videos of some episodes on our YouTube
Speaker 1: page as well, so you'll want to check that out.
Speaker 1: Thanks for being such a great supporter of the show,
Speaker 1: and tune in next time for more on the mind, brain, behavior,
Speaker 1: and creativity.