WEBVTT - Patriots Dynasty Doc Recap, Episodes 3 & 4 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.280 Some of the content in this podcast may not be 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.800 suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.879 It's time for another episode of Patriots Dynasty doc Recap. 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:13.120 As we do a wrap up show of the Patriots 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:17.880 Dynasty documentary, Matt Smith along with Fred Kirsh Paul Perillo 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:22.240 like to so it's episodes three and four. 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:23.640 We've seen the. 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:27.080 Patriots win their first Super Bowl, but before we get 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:29.440 to them winning their first super Bowl, there was a 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:33.559 look back at a coach that took them to their 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.680 second super Bowl in franchise history. Fred, were you surprised 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:38.159 when you saw Bill Parcell pop up on. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:40.720 News a little bit? Yeah, like, oh wow, they got 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.599 Bill Parcell's you know, and that goes you know, they 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.000 did a lot of work on this thing. It was 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.040 good to see him, and I think that he got 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.760 right to the point that they took away the draft 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:53.480 to me and there was no way I was coming 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:58.000 back to the Patriots. But you know, I think from 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.160 a story storytelling standpoint, they wanted to go back and 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.680 show you know, Crafts first go around with the team. 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.840 It didn't end well with a great coach and it 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.600 was a learning experience for Craft, but I thought that 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.560 was really cool to see him on camera now, not 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:16.520 back then, but now talking about it. 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.280 And as the years have gone by, we've been led 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.760 to believe that the border war is over. Right now, 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:25.440 this is Darth Vader on the phone and everything's honky dorry. 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.039 It really isn't honky dorry if you listen to what 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.800 Bill Parcells is. I was not coming back as a 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:32.720 Patriot once they took the draft away from it, right 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:33.240 that was it. 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:33.800 I was done. 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:39.319 I thought this was kind of oddly placed. I didn't 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:41.920 really feel like this had much of a place in 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:47.319 the dynasty, understanding that the team itself, the players themselves, 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.880 a lot of them were parcels guys that they come 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.120 from those drafts. But you know, the Border war being 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:56.680 over was that was after no I know this. Yeah. 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.280 Like so when Parcells says I wasn't coming back, that 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.400 was in ninety seven. I'm saying didn't end until long. 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:07.600 I know, But Parcells said it now, So you would 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:12.200 think that, like throughout all this time, maybe he you know, because. 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:14.760 This is what I don't like about it, That's what 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.480 that's what you think. Parcells thinks he was right. Kraft 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.120 thinks he was right, No, I know, but anything to 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:23.200 do with the story. Really, I just thought it was odd. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.600 I know. But since then, like Parcells has said, you know, 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:28.480 I did some things and he's kind of softened it. 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:33.480 But in this documentary we're talking about that, he made 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:35.560 no bones about it. I like that. I like that 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.320 he you know, that was the case back then. Like 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.200 now I've softened. I like Robert Kraft. Now we're friends, 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:43.040 blah blah blah. 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.640 But at that time they've moved on, ye all. 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:47.720 But clearly he's not. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:48.280 He's not. 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:50.840 He's not going back on that, and they took the 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.120 draft away. That they took the draft away, and I 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:57.480 like hearing that twenty four years later or more thirty 0:02:57.560 --> 0:02:59.960 years later, you know, that was that was cool. 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.640 They took the draft away from me with somebody that 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:03.960 didn't know what he was doing. 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:08.200 He was very pointed, Well, it wasn't. He was not 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:10.720 sorry talking about Robert Craft. He was talking about other people. 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:12.480 No, no, no, they wasn't talking about Robert Craft. 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.680 He was talking about Bobby probably Andy. 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:16.240 Right, And he was right. 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:17.120 Yeah. 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:18.600 It's funny to me though, because this is one of 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:20.679 the great debates of like this, Bill Parcells belonging to 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:22.600 the Patriots Hall of Fame. Is he part of the 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.120 story of the dynasty, Well, as far as this document 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:26.240 is concerned, yes, he is. 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.440 They took the draft. Well, who drafted all those great guys? 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:32.200 Probably think Bill Parcells. 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:34.040 They didn't after they took it from him. 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.920 Yeah, okay, there aren't. Andy after he got the draft 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.000 taken away from him. Terry Gleam was the only one 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.280 who did anything. And would you get a year out 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.560 of him? I mean, I mean the results speak for themselves. 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.240 So so you know the tie laws, the Teddy Bruski's, 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:48.600 those were all parcels. 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:50.360 So they took one pick away from them. 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:52.800 They took one draft away from him. That's it. 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:53.360 They took one. 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:55.400 Then he left, they took one, and then they had 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:56.840 three years of terrible drafts. 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:57.800 Well, let's not again. 0:03:58.200 --> 0:03:59.920 This is proving my point that it didn't belong to 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:01.360 the story. It's useless. 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:03.000 So, Paul, I'm gonna come back to you because I 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:04.920 think one of the things that I heard you talk 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.320 about that was impressive to you in this episode is 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:13.040 Teddy Bruski really kind of defining from a culture standpoint, 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.720 who will best embodied the patriot way and what was that. 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.880 Yeah, And he talked about Drew and his selfless attitude 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.719 and sort of accepting as one hundred million dollar quarterback 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.280 that it's not always going to work out for you, 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:25.880 but you have to kind of do what's best for 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:27.800 the team. And the thing that really stuck out to 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.000 me is, obviously, I'm the Drew guy here on this panel, 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.159 and I am not embarrassed by that. I wear that 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:37.000 that proudly. I even as a Drew guy, had always 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.120 sort of been under the impression Drew did what he 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:41.080 had to do to get by and not upset the 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:43.840 apple cart too much. I don't think it was perfect 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:47.719 behind the scenes. I think Drew had his problems, but 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.880 what Bruski is telling you is, considering the circumstances, he 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:55.240 was pretty perfect behind the scenes, like he could have 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:59.200 been an enormous disruption. And yes he was disappointed. Yes, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.880 earlier in in the in the in the I think 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.680 one of episode one or two, he said, no, you know, 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:07.839 the shins off the nickel, I'm going to get my 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.919 job back now, right. So, yes, he always had that 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.119 mindset and he wanted to play in the super Bowl, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.800 but he didn't destroy everything, and he could have. 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.040 And you know, he did go to Robert Kraft and 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:20.960 he did bitch to Robert Craft, and Robert Kraft went 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.000 to Bill. So he did do that, But he could 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.120 have made it a lot worse. Right, he could have 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:26.840 made it a lot worse. 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.200 I thought Bruski's comment like that was kind of the 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:30.680 Patriot Way was born. 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.159 Teams stunning first stunning to me. 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.400 I mean, you know, when you never point in Drew's direction, 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:37.080 and when you talk about the Patriot Way, and I 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:39.080 know that that's, you know, term that that some people like, 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.240 some people don't. But for him to point to Drew, 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.400 I just I found that incredible. And but but I 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:45.240 think he was right, you know, and I had never 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:45.600 heard that. 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:46.560 No, neither did I. 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:48.880 Right, And I will tell you, And they recount this, 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:50.520 and Drew does a really good job of recounting it. 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.679 I remember being outside of Belichick's office. We were told, 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.680 have a crew outside of Belichick's office. He's going to 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.000 make a decision. He's bringing Tom and Drew and he's 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.240 going to inform the decision. And they both walk out. 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.720 They both go their separate ways, and Drew was pissed, 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.200 and he said he was pissed. What's interesting to me 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.280 is with all the evidence that he had of how 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.680 Tom had sort of taken over and they won all 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.800 these games. I came into the SC Championship game. I 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:16.880 studied the ship. We're here at the Super Bowl. 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.000 Why aren't I the starter? And as he said, that. 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:21.440 Was a bitter pill to swallow. 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.560 Yeah, that was I mean even during a flipping it over, 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.000 I mean even during the game after they won the 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.839 Super Bowl. That the footage of of Drew and Tom's 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.080 interaction and you can just kind of feel that resignation 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.520 and Drew of like, yes, I'm happy, I'm happy for 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:35.839 the team. 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:39.000 You're the man, Tom, You're the man twelve. You're the 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:39.520 man twelve. 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:40.080 That's right. 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.119 There's another interesting thing that happened in that first Super 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.480 Bowl that I think a lot of people enjoy here 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.200 in New England. We saw bon Jovie talk about it, 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.840 how we got chills in seeing the Patriots introduced as 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:53.240 the team. 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.480 Paul right. 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.520 But I but that whole story of how it happened, 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:02.840 I found is interesting because, as you guys know, because 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.560 you were here, they did that periodically. I think they 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:08.880 some people think they did it every single week during 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.120 the two thousand and one season. It started when they lost. 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.600 To the Big definitely did it in Cincinnati, right, Yeah, 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:14.000 and so. 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.320 It became newsworthy because they did it on this stage. 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:22.320 Right. And what did you think of that whole moment? Well, 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.760 you know, remembering what it was like back then, I 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.960 loved it. And I you have some insight on this. 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.320 I thought it was a decision that the league was 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.840 pushing them to go out as individuals, and they made 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.560 a decision right there that no, no, no, we're not doing that. 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:39.760 But you know more than I did. 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:41.760 Well, I can just tell you what his perspective is 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.080 in an interview that I did hit him. Bill Belichick 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.680 in an interview with him in twenty sixteen, and he 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:49.680 said the league came to him midweek and said, Bill, 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.240 we need to know is it offense or defense that's 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.120 coming out. We've got a minute thirty scripted in here 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:56.760 for you to introduce a team. He goes, we need 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.600 fifteen seconds. We're going out as a team. And the 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.360 person the legal I don't think you understand. This is 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.520 the Super Bowl and you have to designate whether you 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.400 want your offense or defense to go out. And Bill goes, 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:08.200 I don't think you understand it. You can do whatever 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.120 you want. We're going out as a team, and we 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.520 need fifteen seconds and Bill was the one. Now was 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.920 that not communicated to Teddy Bruski because Bruski seemed surprised 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.960 in the documentary when he goes I heard a scream 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:22.240 in the back. Teddy's got a nice flare for the 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.840 dramatic too. I heard a scream come from behind and say, no, 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:28.880 we're going out as a team. And it just sort 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.920 of really romanticized the whole thing, which I thought was good. 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:33.600 But I think they knew they were going out as 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.920 a team on Wednesday. If it's the latest, Yeah, I like, 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:41.760 who knows, Like obviously you know what you know. But 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.960 maybe Bruske didn't. Maybe they were hearing, Oh, the league's 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:46.960 gonna make us go out as individuals. We want to 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:47.800 we don't want to do that. 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:50.840 Maybe up until that point the team wasn't or at 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.720 least Bruski wasn't sure that they were gonna be able 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:55.640 to do it. And then he heard that and it 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:57.280 was like, Oh, we're going at it as a team, 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:58.600 you know. I don't know, I don't know. 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:00.480 I think there's another edite team to get. 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.840 Teddy Bruski on one of the later wrap up shows and. 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:04.439 Ask him, right. 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:06.319 I think there's another entity that was played here, and 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.959 that's television because Fox did the game that might have 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.400 been Fox's first Super Bowl by the way, and they're 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:14.240 used to this is going to be a big show. 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.320 We're going to introduce these guys individually, and they were saying, no, 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:19.960 not as a team. This is boring. It's not as exciting. 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.800 We want ray Lewis dancing out into the center. We 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.440 want Marshall Foch doing all that stuff. You guys remember 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.200 Gary Gridecci. I think Gary Gridecky who was on the 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.640 field in that position. They were scrambling still a little 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.040 bit like the league still at the at the eleventh 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.000 hour was pushing no, you guys need to be and. 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.760 That might have been part of it, like the players 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.080 weren't sure that we were going to be able to 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.320 still do it. They were going to force us to 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.640 do it, but they they stood true and I love that. 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.320 I mean, I hope they never give that up. You know, 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.559 I know we have a new regime here and it's drawed, 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.200 and you know, maybe they look at it an opportunity 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:00.920 to redoce some things and change the way they get it. 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.439 I hope they they continue to come out as a team. Right, 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.920 you're watching and listening to Patriots Dynasty doc recap. As 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.679 we're talking about the Patriots Dynasty documentary, and as they 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:15.360 end episode three, super Bowl thirty eight is kind of 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.880 an aftermath. They show a field goal maybe oh yeah, 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:19.800 they want to. 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:23.800 Right thousand check out podcast. 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.480 I appreciate that they spend a little bit more time 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.360 on super Bowl thirty nine, but they use super Bowl 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.480 thirty nine the way well, but they use that to 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:36.560 say that here's where the addiction comes into play, and 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:41.920 that both Pioli and Bruski Mike talk about the narcotic 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:46.080 of winning and how you'll do almost anything to win, 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.800 which Matt Hamat checked. The director and the Dynasty team 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:52.760 do a very good job of a cliffhanger because where 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:54.880 they're going for episode for well. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.600 They're going to Spygate and the Lean Years, the ten 0:10:57.679 --> 0:10:59.840 year Lean Years. I was surprised, I mean, the twenty 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:02.400 one game win streak, you know, just I don't know. 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:03.679 I think that that point could have been made a 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:05.959 little bit better about what kind of made this team special, 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.000 because especially you know, coming off this two thousand and 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:09.760 three stuff that that I did, that we all did that, 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.079 you know, celebrating twenty years of that season. You know, 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:14.280 you remember how special those teams were. And I think 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:16.600 that that's just, you know, something that's getting kind of 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.360 left in the wash because we're trying to tell a 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:20.120 bigger story here. 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.480 You know, we're trying to tell Like you said, Matt, 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:24.920 this was not about who these teams kind of were. 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:26.880 This was about the bigger picture of how this team 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:28.960 began to view the league and how the league began 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.320 to view them, and what kind of came to transpire 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:31.959 a couple of years ago. 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:35.280 Fred, what I mean, so my kid on that, if 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:39.160 you're a football purist, this might be that's not Matt 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:42.280 Hammichick's style in this. Yeah, Matt Hammachick's style in this 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:47.839 is to accentuate the drama the director. Yeah, but there 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:49.559 was drama that they overlooked. 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.000 I totally agree, Fred, this is a big miss to me. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:53.680 They missed a lot of drumas they missed. 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:54.520 Harrison Maloy. 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:59.439 Harrison Maloy, the cutting his hands. Brian Kinchin, do you 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.240 remember how much tension there was going into that Super Bowl? 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.040 Right, yeah, I mean this team hates their coach with 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.559 Tom Jackson, hunts, you know, all that stuff. They they 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:11.480 I get it, you only have so much time you 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:13.160 have to make editorial choices. 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.360 But that was a big thing. I couldn't agree more. 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.720 The Lawyer Malloy thing alone could have been fifteen minutes. 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:23.320 I mean, that was an enormous thing. Tom Brady. So 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.760 we come off of a couple of episodes where Tom 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.679 Brady's explaining how he went to quarterback school with the 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.680 head coach and how instrumental the two were. The next year, 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.120 he's growing a beard in protest of his coach. They 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.960 boycotted the coach to the point where Tom Jackson is 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:43.320 saying they hate him. Right, drama nothing, Yeah, we got 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.800 nothing on that. So we can set up spygate. And 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:47.440 I'm not saying they shouldn't have done spygate. 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:49.679 Well they should have done twelve episodes. Well that's what 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:50.640 I mean. They won. 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:55.840 I don't even think it has to be just a 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.199 football purist. They won twenty one games in a row. 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.920 It was it's a record, right, and we don't even 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:02.280 hear it. They didn't even mention it. 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:06.600 So the underbelly of This Dynasty comes into full fruition 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.920 in episode four and it's Spygate. Well, Fred, how did 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:11.040 you think that they handled that? 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.319 I thought they did a good job. I mean, if 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:18.240 you're looking for like stuff that you didn't know before, 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.040 you're not going to get it. Like Ernie Adams, they 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.080 interview him, He's not going to tell you anything. Bill's 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.320 not going to tell you anything, you know. And I 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:29.440 think there's a lot of people that they didn't talk 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.360 to that we think maybe they should have such as well, 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.400 like they didn't talk to Bears Nazarian, who is right 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.440 by Bill. They didn't talk to any of the video people, 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:41.040 you know, they you know, like there's a lot of 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.120 people that were involved that they didn't talk to. And players, 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:48.319 Like what did you guys think about all this? Brady? Brady, 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:50.840 maybe they asked him and he refused to answer, and 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:51.680 they didn't put it. 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.040 In, but they not sure they got the Belichick question 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:54.880 and to ask him. 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.840 They didn't have not one comment from Brady on Spygate. 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.720 You have one more guy, yeah, Eric Mangini, Yeah, Like 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:03.600 how do we not hear from him? You know, this 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.800 is another part I'm sort of I went in with 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:11.079 kind of modest expectations of the whole project, and then 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.280 was really encouraged the way it started. And I'm sort 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.040 of kind of declining here as we get further along. 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.480 And this is one of the things you said it, Fred, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.680 did you learn anything? Nope? And I don't think someone 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.680 you know, Johnny Appleseed and des Moin and Iowa didn't 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:28.200 learn anything about spot Well no, but this spygate that 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.280 they gave us is stuff that absolutely everybody knows. 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.680 But but well you say that, but and we're in it. 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.040 But there's a lot of people who were just becoming 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.720 NFL fans, are very casual fans of the time that 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.880 I think will find, you know, this episode intriguing. 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.440 Well, but that's a history lesson for someone who didn't 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.880 experience it. I'm saying, someone who experienced the NFL, I 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:54.320 know six knows everything that they But I think. 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.560 You know, again, the craft of this I think did 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.000 a really really good job here, you know, starting out 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.400 with that cop from New York who was at the 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.560 meadowlands that day and inclusion, I really do why Well, 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.680 he starts off by talking about how he was undercover 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.240 with the mob and you know for many, many years 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.480 and even though you're with all these bad guys, you 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.440 had to betray them. That was your job. And even 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.200 then it made him feel bad, you know, like I 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.520 had to get out, Like I just didn't feel good 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.280 about myself because of all the betrayal I had to do. Okay, 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.760 why are we talking about this? Well, now you find 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.840 out later on when the Manginie part of the story 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:40.280 comes up, and it's very clear that Ernie Adams and 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:44.040 other people in the organization felt that Manginie betrayed them. 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:48.160 He ratted them out. Who said, had somebody used those 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:48.880 words peoli? 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:53.320 I think, when you leave, don't don't don't make a mess. 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.920 Don't make a mess. It's family. It's family, when you leave, 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:57.640 don't make a mess. 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.480 And so that's why I thought tying in that cop 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:02.120 story made sense to me. 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.240 Only if you're going to talk to Mangini. Well, otherwise 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:10.400 maybe they tried, but then you should say something you 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:11.760 like to acknowledge it somehow. 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.400 That's they weren't doing those editorial notes. That wasn't the. 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.280 Style, you know, thinks. 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.800 But you know the other thing that they didn't really 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.280 touch on that we know is that Mangini went to 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:28.000 the Jets and just that mere action said that he 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.680 was a trader like you could go anywhere in the world. 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.040 But at that time and probably still to this day, 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:37.520 but especially Bill hated the Jets by the way they 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:39.960 talked about him on the way out of New York. 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.640 And you want to talk about border war, there was 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.160 a huge border war with the Patriots and the Jets, 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:50.880 even after Parcels left there. And the fact that Marginie 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.600 left here for any other team would have been okay, 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:56.360 but he went to the Jets and that really pissed 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:57.800 Bill off. And then he does this. 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.280 That was his first mistake, just take accepting that job. 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.000 Right, And then he does this, and as Ernie Adams said, 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.560 and I don't feel I'm taking all the oxygen out 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:09.200 of the room. But as Ernie Adams said, we weren't 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.080 doing anything that anyone else wasn't doing. We just did 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.840 it in a different way, in a better way. And 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.600 I know people were videotaping us. 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.760 Ernie said that, Mike, were you surprised at how you know? 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.720 Ernie said, he said, look, some of you shing you 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.440 have to take to their grave, right. But seconds later 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:31.280 in the documentary he sort of justified the act. Were 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:32.280 you surprised by. 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.040 That, No, because I still felt like kind of pauled it, 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.119 like I don't gel like we're dancing around it. And 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.600 I still, you know, and again as a fan who 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.040 really was I don't know what the word would be. 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:43.720 I was devastated when this all happened. 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:45.960 Like I was, you know, a sky high Patriots fan 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:47.920 at the time, and oh my gosh, I'm so excited 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:49.840 for this season, and you know, to be to be 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.080 totally frank watching these first four episodes, the first two, 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.679 it was a reminder of what a joy and a 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.879 thrill it was early on. And the Spygate episode was 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:01.160 a reminder of some of the crap that you put 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:02.880 up with as a fan that you didn't really want 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:05.439 to be defending the wall or having to say everyone, 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:06.960