WEBVTT - Time Opens All Wounds 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:14.965 School of Humans. We're in Walmart stocking up on provisions 0:00:14.965 --> 0:00:17.805 for our cabin when we get a call from a 0:00:17.805 --> 0:00:21.565 woman named Sylvia. She says that she does not want 0:00:21.605 --> 0:00:25.005 to be interviewed again because the last time she came forward, 0:00:25.605 --> 0:00:29.485 her entire life was put under a microscope. It was 0:00:29.805 --> 0:00:31.805 interesting both in that she pointed out a lot of 0:00:31.805 --> 0:00:35.405 the discrepancies, but she was explaining those discrepancies and she 0:00:35.485 --> 0:00:37.645 was insisting that she's right and that she did see 0:00:37.645 --> 0:00:41.325 what she saw. And she's reluctant to talk. But I 0:00:41.365 --> 0:00:42.805 was able to sort of talk to her for about 0:00:42.845 --> 0:00:44.525 twenty minutes and explain to her who you were, what 0:00:44.525 --> 0:00:48.085 we're doing, that we're legit, and I feel like if 0:00:48.125 --> 0:00:50.405 we get some new information or we have something she 0:00:50.405 --> 0:00:52.925 can collaborate with us on, I feel like she will talk. 0:00:53.605 --> 0:00:57.405 Sylvia is heavily featured in ABC's forty minute episode of 0:00:57.445 --> 0:01:00.685 their show called Primetime that was dedicated to Janie's case. 0:01:01.485 --> 0:01:04.805 It aired in two thousand and nine. In the program, 0:01:05.165 --> 0:01:08.405 Sylvia tells the producers that at the time of Janie's death, 0:01:08.805 --> 0:01:12.165 she was a runner, someone who delivered drugs to parties, 0:01:12.965 --> 0:01:16.765 and on September ninth, nineteen eighty nine. She said she 0:01:16.845 --> 0:01:19.085 was asked to deliver drugs to a high school party 0:01:19.285 --> 0:01:23.325 that was happening in a cabin on Zach Road in Marshall, Arkansas. 0:01:24.005 --> 0:01:25.925 She said when she pulled up to the cabin, she 0:01:26.005 --> 0:01:28.925 was looking straight at the porch and she witnessed the 0:01:29.005 --> 0:01:33.245 girl hid another girl in the face. Sylvia said she 0:01:33.325 --> 0:01:35.245 high tailed it out of there because she didn't want 0:01:35.245 --> 0:01:38.045 any trouble. She had bags of pot in her car 0:01:38.405 --> 0:01:42.005 and didn't want to risk arrest. Sylvia didn't come forward 0:01:42.085 --> 0:01:45.285 until two thousand and seven, three years into a new 0:01:45.325 --> 0:01:49.885 investigation into Janie Ward's death. She claimed she had been scared, 0:01:50.765 --> 0:01:53.565 but now she said she had a kid herself, and 0:01:53.605 --> 0:01:56.765 she felt for the Ward family and she wanted the 0:01:56.765 --> 0:01:59.805 Wards to know once and for all what happened to 0:01:59.845 --> 0:02:21.205 their daughter. I'm Catherine Townsend and this is Helen Gone. 0:02:41.165 --> 0:02:43.045 I do love the names of some of these roads, 0:02:43.085 --> 0:02:45.845 Like some of them make sense, like Nighthawk Road and 0:02:45.885 --> 0:02:48.845 Cricket Lane, and then some of them are like high 0:02:48.845 --> 0:02:54.005 Tech Road. It's gonna be almost like purposely ironic. Right now, 0:02:54.325 --> 0:02:58.885 we are going to the cabin where the party happened 0:02:59.205 --> 0:03:05.165 and where Jane fell. Whatever happened to Janey happened to 0:03:05.205 --> 0:03:09.725 turn right onto Zach Road, and we'd managed to get 0:03:09.725 --> 0:03:14.445 some directions from the Freedom Information Request and from I 0:03:14.565 --> 0:03:17.565 compared that address with the name of the person who 0:03:17.565 --> 0:03:20.605 bought the cabin afterwards, So we're gonna go out there 0:03:20.605 --> 0:03:23.445 and look for it. The cabin on Zach Road has 0:03:23.485 --> 0:03:27.245 been renovated in the thirty years since Janie's death. It's 0:03:27.245 --> 0:03:29.685 been spruced up since that fateful night in nineteen eighty 0:03:29.765 --> 0:03:33.965 nine when Jane's cousin Jay lived there alone. The house 0:03:34.005 --> 0:03:37.605 had two bedrooms. One had a dirty mattress on the ground. 0:03:38.245 --> 0:03:41.565 The other, where Jay slept, had a mattress with stained 0:03:41.565 --> 0:03:45.005 sheets and three thin pillows on it. Three shirts hung 0:03:45.045 --> 0:03:48.885 in the closet. Another room was converted into a makeshift 0:03:48.925 --> 0:03:51.885 workspace and was filled with old food containers and another 0:03:51.925 --> 0:03:54.765 folded up mattress and file cabinet that looked like someone 0:03:54.845 --> 0:03:57.965 to toss into the room. The living room had a 0:03:57.965 --> 0:04:00.965 matching set of faded floral furniture, and there was a 0:04:00.965 --> 0:04:04.565 model of a boat on display. The cabin didn't have 0:04:04.685 --> 0:04:08.525 electricity or running water, so the appliances in the kitchen 0:04:08.525 --> 0:04:12.165 and bathroom were unusable. And the whole house was covered 0:04:12.165 --> 0:04:17.125 in matted brown carpet. The walls were unfinished. The house 0:04:17.165 --> 0:04:20.045 had two porches. The one facing the gravel road that 0:04:20.125 --> 0:04:22.645 leads up to the cabin is where Janey supposedly fell 0:04:22.685 --> 0:04:25.845 off the step, and that step was no more than 0:04:25.885 --> 0:04:29.805 ten inches in height. In December of two thousand and four, 0:04:30.445 --> 0:04:34.245 Special Prosecutor Tim Williamson was court appointed to Janey's case. 0:04:35.245 --> 0:04:39.085 At the time, he was a prosecutor based in Mina, Arkansas. 0:04:40.125 --> 0:04:43.125 Governor Mike Huckabee sets aside ten thousand dollars for the 0:04:43.165 --> 0:04:47.525 investigation so that Williamson can build a team of investigators 0:04:47.845 --> 0:04:51.725 and a deputy prosecutor. The governor's spotlight on the case 0:04:51.765 --> 0:04:55.445 gets readers hooked to Mike Masterson's column, and journalists from 0:04:55.445 --> 0:04:58.925 around the state start covering the case again. One of 0:04:58.965 --> 0:05:03.045 those journalists was Jason Peterson, and in his news report 0:05:03.085 --> 0:05:06.285 that aired on KATV, he puts a cushion down where 0:05:06.325 --> 0:05:10.285 Jennie falls and demonstrates the fall himself, tumbling backwards and 0:05:10.405 --> 0:05:13.165 landing with a heavy smack under the cushion. When you 0:05:13.245 --> 0:05:16.405 sort of demonstrated the fall off the porch, what was 0:05:16.405 --> 0:05:18.765 your impression of the of the porch and how far 0:05:18.845 --> 0:05:21.805 the fall was. Well, that's what I wanted to try 0:05:21.805 --> 0:05:25.445 to convey to our viewers. You know, it's been widely 0:05:25.725 --> 0:05:28.125 thought that she I mean, it's a fact she fell 0:05:28.165 --> 0:05:30.885 off the porch. Three people witnessed her fall off the porch. 0:05:31.205 --> 0:05:33.805 What's in dispute is whether that fall could kill someone. 0:05:34.165 --> 0:05:37.525 A backward fall off the porch an fty plunges investigator 0:05:37.605 --> 0:05:42.045 Beach years later would call it. And so I thought 0:05:42.165 --> 0:05:45.485 the best way to try to show our viewers exactly 0:05:45.565 --> 0:05:47.725 what the people at that party saw was to fall 0:05:47.765 --> 0:05:50.285 off the porch myself. One of the reasons I wanted 0:05:50.325 --> 0:05:52.925 to do it was because our top three ports showed 0:05:52.965 --> 0:05:59.965 that her head had been snapped backwards. But a fall 0:06:00.085 --> 0:06:03.005 like that does not propel your head backwards if anything 0:06:03.165 --> 0:06:06.365 pushes it forwards when you hit the ground. And the 0:06:06.365 --> 0:06:09.285 physical act of falling off the porch didn't match the 0:06:09.285 --> 0:06:12.685 physical evidence of the head being snapped backwards, you know, 0:06:12.765 --> 0:06:16.645 either struck in the face or somehow pushed backwards from 0:06:16.685 --> 0:06:20.125 the face. And do you think that when you were 0:06:20.165 --> 0:06:21.845 when you were you know, when you were falling off 0:06:21.885 --> 0:06:26.325 the porch. It's widely been described as she fell ten inches, 0:06:26.365 --> 0:06:28.445 but actually then others were saying, but it wasn't really 0:06:28.525 --> 0:06:30.805 ten inches. If you count if you're going from the 0:06:30.805 --> 0:06:34.925 top of her head, it's more than ten inches. Yeah, 0:06:34.965 --> 0:06:38.405 it's much more. I mean, it's a much further fall 0:06:38.485 --> 0:06:40.405 than ten inches the porch. While it's true as ten 0:06:40.485 --> 0:06:43.245 inches high, you're falling from a height, and if you're 0:06:43.285 --> 0:06:46.325 falling straight back, you know, that's probably maybe a six 0:06:46.445 --> 0:06:50.405 or seven foot you know, acceleration before you hit. But 0:06:51.125 --> 0:06:54.165 I think the prosecutor one time said he had seen 0:06:54.165 --> 0:06:56.245 a case where a man in Hot Springs fell off 0:06:56.925 --> 0:06:59.445 sent made a similar fall and he was now quadriplegic. 0:07:00.045 --> 0:07:02.205 And I guess what you have to decide that the 0:07:02.285 --> 0:07:05.165 viewer is, you know, is that enough to kill someone? 0:07:05.205 --> 0:07:08.565 And ter freak accidents happened, but for the most part, 0:07:08.605 --> 0:07:11.325 the human bodies designed to live. It's pretty difficult to 0:07:12.925 --> 0:07:16.285 kill someone or you know, you can sustain a lot 0:07:16.285 --> 0:07:18.525 of injuries and still live. And would that have been 0:07:18.685 --> 0:07:23.165 enough to kill her or did something else happen either 0:07:23.605 --> 0:07:26.485 before or after that fall that contributed to her death. 0:07:26.725 --> 0:07:29.925 Peterson's report was in two thousand and five, a few 0:07:29.965 --> 0:07:34.445 months into Tim Williamson's investigation, and In his report, he 0:07:34.525 --> 0:07:38.005 brings up suspicions that he has about Jane's case. First, 0:07:38.325 --> 0:07:41.525 the fact that ron Rose, Sherry, and Kim All said 0:07:41.565 --> 0:07:44.405 they went straight to the bank parking lot, even though 0:07:44.525 --> 0:07:47.845 dispatcher Harold Young said they went by the police station. First, 0:07:48.565 --> 0:07:52.125 Peterson talked about the condition of Jannie's clothing, the fact 0:07:52.165 --> 0:07:54.485 that her clothes were wet and sandy, even though the 0:07:54.485 --> 0:07:57.685 cabin and the truck bed were reportedly dry and dusty. 0:07:58.405 --> 0:08:01.245 He also mentioned the fact that those same clothes went missing, 0:08:01.805 --> 0:08:04.285 and that the X rays the Wards supposedly saw in 0:08:04.325 --> 0:08:07.765 nineteen eighty nine that showed a fracture were not the 0:08:07.805 --> 0:08:10.445 same one sent to them from the crime lab, and 0:08:10.645 --> 0:08:13.645 he pointed out the discrepancies in witness statements from Sarah 0:08:13.805 --> 0:08:16.805 and some of her friends. He also said that the 0:08:16.845 --> 0:08:21.445 ambulance run reports pertaining to Janie's death were stolen. In 0:08:21.485 --> 0:08:25.045 the months after Jane died. The ambulance service had reported 0:08:25.045 --> 0:08:28.645 that the building had been broken into, only one report 0:08:28.725 --> 0:08:33.565 was stolen, Janey's. Peterson reached out to twenty six people 0:08:33.565 --> 0:08:36.005 at the party. He was able to get a few 0:08:36.005 --> 0:08:38.965 people to open up to him, but he got a 0:08:38.965 --> 0:08:41.205 lot of doors slammed in his face, and a lot 0:08:41.245 --> 0:08:44.285 of people hung up on him. Most people did not 0:08:44.445 --> 0:08:47.005 want to revisit the night that Janie died. I think 0:08:47.045 --> 0:08:48.765 we did a pretty good job. I did a pretty 0:08:48.805 --> 0:08:51.125 good job contacting as many people at the party as 0:08:51.125 --> 0:08:53.245 I could now as far as what their reactions were, 0:08:53.725 --> 0:08:57.245 I thought maybe time would have loosened some lips, they'd 0:08:57.245 --> 0:08:59.325 be less fearful to talk or to tell what they know. 0:08:59.445 --> 0:09:02.845 It's suming there's something to know, But you know, a 0:09:02.885 --> 0:09:05.445 lot of people as soon as identified who I was 0:09:05.605 --> 0:09:07.885 and what I was calling about or what I was 0:09:07.965 --> 0:09:11.645 visiting about, shutting down right away. Me know, it's just 0:09:11.725 --> 0:09:15.685 a lot of over and over people not wanting to 0:09:16.885 --> 0:09:19.725 talk about it at all, which kind of surprised me. 0:09:19.965 --> 0:09:22.125 Though maybe they've just they're just tired of hearing about it, 0:09:22.325 --> 0:09:24.285 are tired of talking about it, or tired of thinking 0:09:24.285 --> 0:09:26.285 about it as soon as they do. When he tried 0:09:26.285 --> 0:09:29.565 to call Gary Dn, Gary Don's girlfriend gave Peterson a 0:09:29.685 --> 0:09:33.485 number for him to reach him on That number one 0:09:33.605 --> 0:09:37.325 eight hundred fuck you. One other thing we still don't 0:09:37.365 --> 0:09:39.645 know the answer to is the route that the truck 0:09:39.725 --> 0:09:44.005 took from the cabin to the town Square. There are 0:09:44.045 --> 0:09:46.525 two ways to drive from the cabin on Zach Road 0:09:46.725 --> 0:09:50.605 to marshall'stown Square. The most direct route is turning left 0:09:50.645 --> 0:09:53.325 out of the driveway. You go a few miles on 0:09:53.445 --> 0:09:57.045 rocky roads and then hit the pavement. On this route 0:09:57.445 --> 0:10:01.685 you pass the Sheriff's offices, old location, several homes, and 0:10:01.725 --> 0:10:05.285 the community center where on the night Jane died, there 0:10:05.325 --> 0:10:08.845 was huge event going on, but the people in the 0:10:08.885 --> 0:10:11.885 truck who carry Janey in the back say they didn't 0:10:11.885 --> 0:10:15.405 stop or notice the community meeting. They say they never 0:10:15.445 --> 0:10:18.565 stopped until they got to the town square, which they 0:10:18.605 --> 0:10:20.725 went to because it was close to the only medical 0:10:20.765 --> 0:10:26.165 facility in town, the ambulance service. It was also across 0:10:26.165 --> 0:10:29.805 the street from the car wash. The alternate route, a 0:10:29.805 --> 0:10:32.925 little longer and even rockier, is a right turn out 0:10:32.965 --> 0:10:36.285 of the driveway. This route goes along the creek bed 0:10:36.605 --> 0:10:38.525 and comes out at the same place on the pavement 0:10:38.565 --> 0:10:42.445 as the first route. Five point one miles to the 0:10:42.445 --> 0:10:45.805 main road and zero point eight miles only really like 0:10:45.885 --> 0:10:48.645 point eight like around just under a mile to a 0:10:48.685 --> 0:10:53.805 good paved road. Whichever route they chose, the drive from 0:10:53.805 --> 0:10:57.445 the cabin on Zach Road to Marshall's town Square should 0:10:57.485 --> 0:11:01.005 not take any more than twenty minutes. We'll be right back. 0:11:05.485 --> 0:11:08.245 It's like so many other people who worked on Jamie's case. 0:11:09.005 --> 0:11:13.365 The Wards found the special prosecutor Tim Williamson disappointing. How 0:11:13.365 --> 0:11:15.725 did that affect you and Ron the whole Tim Williamson thing. 0:11:15.925 --> 0:11:18.605 I know, he came and prayed with you, right, Oh yeah, 0:11:18.765 --> 0:11:23.485 what a joke he was, and the governor gave him 0:11:23.525 --> 0:11:28.845 ten thousand dollars to have to investigate. He did nothing 0:11:29.165 --> 0:11:31.765 but covered that. I mean it was already covered at 0:11:32.165 --> 0:11:36.605 and all he did was helped them. I mean all 0:11:36.605 --> 0:11:41.805 he did was yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah. And he didn't 0:11:41.805 --> 0:11:44.045 hear from him. Michael said, you didn't hear from him 0:11:44.085 --> 0:11:47.445 after him? You never, I mean we might ask questions, 0:11:47.485 --> 0:11:52.045 we never got anything. Nothing. Journalist Mike Masterson writes about 0:11:52.045 --> 0:11:55.045 this in his column about how much faith the Words 0:11:55.085 --> 0:11:59.885 put into Tim Williamson. They prayed together, but after this meeting, 0:12:00.485 --> 0:12:02.645 Mike said, it became harder and harder to get in 0:12:02.685 --> 0:12:06.205 touch with him. The Words contacted Tim Williamson right away, 0:12:07.045 --> 0:12:12.765 and Williamson drove to Marshall and met at a church 0:12:12.845 --> 0:12:17.725 with a family and prayed together or justice to emerge 0:12:17.725 --> 0:12:19.885 in this case. He promised the family, I will find 0:12:19.885 --> 0:12:22.565 out what happened to your daughter, you know, and if 0:12:22.605 --> 0:12:26.125 it need be, there'll be accountability. He promised them that 0:12:26.445 --> 0:12:29.285 in the church, well they believed. I wanted to believe him, 0:12:29.285 --> 0:12:32.245 of course. I mean. Ron called me and said, well, 0:12:32.285 --> 0:12:34.285 we have hope for the first time that something's going 0:12:34.325 --> 0:12:36.325 to happen. He seems like a very sincere guy. He 0:12:36.485 --> 0:12:40.205 will do the right thing. For the first week or two, 0:12:40.525 --> 0:12:43.565 Tim Williamson called me, knowing I'd been involved in it 0:12:43.805 --> 0:12:46.005 and writing about it, and he said, you know, I'm 0:12:46.045 --> 0:12:47.525 going to rely on you, Mike, if you don't mind 0:12:47.525 --> 0:12:51.085 this for information if I get stuck. And I said, sure, 0:12:51.685 --> 0:12:53.245 I don't have anything to hide, and I'll be glad 0:12:53.245 --> 0:12:55.205 to help because I'd like to see justice done too. 0:12:56.605 --> 0:12:59.645 So he kind of had a rapport until about the 0:12:59.685 --> 0:13:02.365 third week into it, when he called me and said 0:13:02.365 --> 0:13:05.125 he was going to the crime lab to start really 0:13:05.165 --> 0:13:07.805 digging deeper into this, all this and all the records 0:13:07.805 --> 0:13:10.845 there at the crime lab and blah blah blah. He said, 0:13:10.885 --> 0:13:13.565 I'll get back to you next week. I said, great. 0:13:14.085 --> 0:13:17.205 So I waited a week past nothing two weeks nothing. 0:13:17.485 --> 0:13:21.445 Finally about probably three weeks after, you know, I tried 0:13:21.445 --> 0:13:23.685 to reach him and couldn't get through. You know, it's 0:13:23.725 --> 0:13:26.485 like he's busy, he's tied up. Now. Who knows what 0:13:26.525 --> 0:13:30.205 happened to the crime lab. I don't, but logically I 0:13:30.245 --> 0:13:32.445 would say something happened to the crime lab, and he 0:13:32.525 --> 0:13:35.405 was told something at the crime lab and during his 0:13:35.525 --> 0:13:38.525 visit over in a little rock that maybe sort of 0:13:39.405 --> 0:13:44.325 dampened his attitude. Put it that way, because after that 0:13:45.085 --> 0:13:48.365 he would announce that he's dug into this. He's got 0:13:48.405 --> 0:13:52.285 a staff helping him do it. He's doing interviews, going 0:13:52.365 --> 0:13:55.845 to find out what happened. He spent four years total, 0:13:56.925 --> 0:13:59.725 and he amassed lots of you know, paper, stacks of 0:14:00.285 --> 0:14:03.565 paper with interviews and stuff. So when you looked at it, 0:14:03.605 --> 0:14:05.445 you know, it looks like, boy, this guy's been really busy. 0:14:06.005 --> 0:14:08.805 But when you broke it down, there wasn't anything of 0:14:08.885 --> 0:14:13.645 substance that mattered. Tim Williamson's report makes up the bulk 0:14:13.685 --> 0:14:15.765 of the police case file we got from the Arkansas 0:14:15.845 --> 0:14:19.965 State Police. It's filled with transcriptions of interviews with witnesses 0:14:20.485 --> 0:14:23.165 and a bunch of repeated material from the first investigations. 0:14:23.205 --> 0:14:27.085 Case file. A lot of the accusations against Williamson center 0:14:27.165 --> 0:14:29.165 on the fact that people didn't think he was working 0:14:29.205 --> 0:14:32.685 hard enough. In the case file, there are dozens of 0:14:32.765 --> 0:14:36.725 letters addressed to Williamson from people around Arkansas telling him 0:14:36.725 --> 0:14:40.405 to get a move on. On page three, eight hundred 0:14:40.405 --> 0:14:44.085 and sixty, I find a note from Williamson's deputy prosecutor. 0:14:45.165 --> 0:14:48.765 He says they should hold off on conducting interviews until 0:14:48.805 --> 0:14:52.205 after the Wards have concluded their civil suit. That's the 0:14:52.205 --> 0:14:55.165 one where they're petitioning to change Janey's death certificate from 0:14:55.245 --> 0:14:59.165 undetermined to homicide, and he says that they might as 0:14:59.165 --> 0:15:02.885 well hold off because the ward's lawyer is already deposing witnesses, 0:15:03.525 --> 0:15:07.565 meaning court ordered subpoenas to get the to interview. That way, 0:15:08.005 --> 0:15:10.805 they wouldn't have to double up on the work. The 0:15:10.885 --> 0:15:15.805 depositions were done by the ward's lawyer, Jerry Sallings. Saling's 0:15:15.885 --> 0:15:18.525 law firm started working for the Wards when the family 0:15:18.565 --> 0:15:21.845 needed to get Janie's body exhumed before the second autopsy. 0:15:22.605 --> 0:15:25.485 What we're hoping to get from these depositions is the 0:15:25.565 --> 0:15:30.045 answer to some key questions, including how much time elapsed 0:15:30.085 --> 0:15:32.325 from the time Jannie fell to the ground to the 0:15:32.325 --> 0:15:34.605 time that she got to the bank parking lot, and 0:15:35.365 --> 0:15:38.325 did the truck make any other stops en route. I'm 0:15:38.325 --> 0:15:41.285 also interested in the depositions from Ron Rose and Kim 0:15:41.725 --> 0:15:44.605 because they were the ones in the truck. I'm also 0:15:44.725 --> 0:15:48.365 interested in Gary Donn's deposition because Richard Walter from the 0:15:48.405 --> 0:15:52.205 Vidock Society said Gary Donn told him a completely different 0:15:52.245 --> 0:15:56.525 story than the one that was in his statement. In 0:15:56.605 --> 0:16:00.645 Kim's deposition, she's cooperative, but she gives yes and no 0:16:00.765 --> 0:16:04.765 answers and doesn't elaborate. But what she says in her 0:16:04.805 --> 0:16:08.645 interview mostly matches her original statements, which were taken in 0:16:08.685 --> 0:16:11.085 the months after the incident. Do you you you said 0:16:11.125 --> 0:16:14.765 that you and Janie were good friends, who were friends? Okay? 0:16:15.445 --> 0:16:17.445 Do you know if she was having any problems with 0:16:17.525 --> 0:16:22.205 anybody at school? No? I don't don't know. No, you're 0:16:22.245 --> 0:16:24.205 not saying she wasn't. You just don't know where it 0:16:24.325 --> 0:16:28.005 was that. Had you heard any rumors about her having 0:16:28.045 --> 0:16:32.125 any problems at school with anybody? No? After Janie got 0:16:32.165 --> 0:16:35.085 in the vehicle with you, did you go straight to 0:16:35.125 --> 0:16:39.045 the party. Yes. Here Saling is asking about how they 0:16:39.165 --> 0:16:41.165 got there in case they had passed the river or 0:16:41.205 --> 0:16:43.685 the creek before going to the party. Didn't go by 0:16:43.725 --> 0:16:48.445 the river? No, didn't stop to buy anything, No, didn't 0:16:49.205 --> 0:16:53.085 go drink somewhere else or anything at all. Did you 0:16:53.125 --> 0:16:57.685 pick up anybody else on the way to the party? No? Okay, 0:16:57.765 --> 0:16:59.805 So how help me out? How long does it take 0:16:59.845 --> 0:17:02.245 to get from the square out to where the party was? 0:17:03.445 --> 0:17:08.685 I mean minutes, maybe thirty. That's just a gives Ron 0:17:08.805 --> 0:17:11.765 Rose is more descriptive in his answers. Do you remember 0:17:11.805 --> 0:17:16.045 what she was wearing then? Like a blue jeans and 0:17:16.125 --> 0:17:17.685 a black shirt? And I don't know. I pause it. 0:17:17.725 --> 0:17:20.805 That's wet. He said. He felt like it was his 0:17:20.925 --> 0:17:23.005 duty to get help for Janey. Might I say, no, won, 0:17:23.045 --> 0:17:25.245 there's a good good as friends. We was being kid 0:17:25.245 --> 0:17:27.525 and everything, and I feel like there's my responsibility to 0:17:27.525 --> 0:17:29.445 get her out of there, you know. So we try 0:17:29.485 --> 0:17:31.445 to get her in front of my truck, try to 0:17:31.445 --> 0:17:34.125 load her up. And how did you try to do that? 0:17:34.445 --> 0:17:36.805 Just about three or four, I think it's four of 0:17:36.885 --> 0:17:38.645 us there, four or five of us picked her up 0:17:38.645 --> 0:17:40.885 and tried to handle as best we kids, and tried 0:17:40.885 --> 0:17:42.725 the slider up in front of my truck in the cab, 0:17:42.725 --> 0:17:44.365 in my truck and we couldn't get her in there. 0:17:44.925 --> 0:17:47.605 She's too big and she was limp, you know, she 0:17:47.805 --> 0:17:50.965 just it was hard. We couldn't get her in there. Right, 0:17:51.045 --> 0:17:53.765 you know the back of your truck? Was it wet 0:17:53.885 --> 0:17:57.765 or dry? Pretty sure it was dry. Here Ron gives 0:17:57.845 --> 0:18:00.445 more details about the car wreck. This is the one 0:18:00.445 --> 0:18:03.525 that we talked about in the last episode. The vehicle 0:18:03.605 --> 0:18:07.285 was Ryan's. He became his hysterical after Janneye was pronounced 0:18:07.325 --> 0:18:09.845 dead in the parking lot as you were leaving. Do 0:18:09.925 --> 0:18:13.805 you remember Brian getting his truck stuck? Yes, he wrecked 0:18:13.885 --> 0:18:15.765 atop of the hill up there, had a wrecked up there. 0:18:17.165 --> 0:18:19.885 Who's in the truck with him? He was in a car. 0:18:19.965 --> 0:18:22.045 I don't know who was with him for sure, but 0:18:22.125 --> 0:18:24.685 he was in a car, a car, Yeah, all right? 0:18:25.125 --> 0:18:27.645 Did he block the He had roadblock he'd come out 0:18:27.765 --> 0:18:29.645 this big steep hill. When he come out on top, 0:18:29.725 --> 0:18:31.765 he'd lost it and nosed off in the bank and 0:18:31.765 --> 0:18:33.685 the back end was sticking all the way off the road. 0:18:34.485 --> 0:18:37.365 So how did y'all get around him? I had a 0:18:37.405 --> 0:18:39.685 friend Jimmy, come up there and yanked him back to 0:18:39.685 --> 0:18:41.405 the truck bank, yanked his car out of the way 0:18:41.445 --> 0:18:42.845 to where I could drive up on the bank and 0:18:42.845 --> 0:18:46.765 get by, and then after you got on the past him, 0:18:46.965 --> 0:18:49.565 you've got a gravel road for a while or ways here, 0:18:50.525 --> 0:18:54.805 And did y'all ever stop and never stopped? Neither Ron 0:18:54.885 --> 0:18:57.805 nor Kim said they stopped by the police station, and 0:18:57.845 --> 0:19:00.165 they both said they took a left out of the driveway, 0:19:00.925 --> 0:19:03.485 the more direct route that does not pass by the creek. 0:19:04.205 --> 0:19:08.885 Gary Donn's deposition openly hostile at the beginning, especially because 0:19:08.965 --> 0:19:12.125 during the depositions Ron and Moana Ward are in the 0:19:12.205 --> 0:19:15.805 room and you can feel the tension. You're here under 0:19:15.845 --> 0:19:19.565 the court order. Subpoena is a court order from the judge, 0:19:20.085 --> 0:19:24.685 and I get to ask you questions and it's my 0:19:24.845 --> 0:19:26.445 right and as I answer them, if I don't want to, 0:19:26.725 --> 0:19:29.165 well that's why I'm I'm about care to not go 0:19:29.205 --> 0:19:31.565 further than this right out here, right now, I understand. 0:19:31.805 --> 0:19:34.445 Let me just tell you the way this works in 0:19:34.485 --> 0:19:37.805 a deposition. If you refuse to answer the question, you 0:19:37.805 --> 0:19:40.205 can walk out of here today and I can go 0:19:40.245 --> 0:19:42.645 to the judge and I can say he refused to 0:19:42.645 --> 0:19:45.325 answer these questions, and he can force you to come 0:19:45.325 --> 0:19:47.845 back here and answer them, and then you pay for 0:19:47.885 --> 0:19:50.925 the deposition. Go for that right now, I'm paying for it. 0:19:51.125 --> 0:19:53.365 Go for it. Okay. Well, I don't want to get 0:19:53.365 --> 0:19:55.325 into confident. I don't want to fool with this. I'm 0:19:55.845 --> 0:19:58.005 this man right here. I don't care that he'd be 0:19:58.045 --> 0:20:00.365 in the same room with him, because the crap he's 0:20:00.405 --> 0:20:03.485 put me through, and I do not like to even 0:20:03.565 --> 0:20:07.845 be in the same block with the man you're pointing to, 0:20:07.925 --> 0:20:12.805 Ron Ron Ward right there. All right, well, I can 0:20:12.845 --> 0:20:16.685 tell that your your feelings are a little very very 0:20:17.485 --> 0:20:20.685 Sellings asked him to review his statement, and garyd On 0:20:20.805 --> 0:20:23.085 says he didn't say most of the stuff that was 0:20:23.125 --> 0:20:26.405 in it. To him, it looked like someone made up 0:20:26.445 --> 0:20:31.285 his answers say this in some parts, it's it's it's 0:20:31.325 --> 0:20:36.405 like it's backwards. I mean, like, I don't really explain 0:20:36.445 --> 0:20:38.565 it to you. It just it's just like I told 0:20:38.605 --> 0:20:40.925 you had like it had a mace or Somethingody created 0:20:41.245 --> 0:20:44.965 theirself how they wanted it to be. That's what I'm saying. 0:20:45.245 --> 0:20:47.525 So it's not the truth of what you said. No 0:20:47.765 --> 0:20:51.445 not no, okay, uh now it's two pages. Did you 0:20:51.485 --> 0:20:55.125 read all of it? I've read enough. That's fine. So 0:20:55.325 --> 0:20:58.085 I read enough. Somebody made that up. Okay, tell me 0:20:58.125 --> 0:21:00.765 what part of it is not true. I've never seen 0:21:00.805 --> 0:21:06.325 her filling no cut from okay, Okay, I've never seen 0:21:06.365 --> 0:21:08.805 her drinking. Let's take it one one statement at times 0:21:08.805 --> 0:21:12.885 so I can keep up with this. Okay, let's see, 0:21:13.125 --> 0:21:18.045 says I got to the party around six, Ron, Kim 0:21:18.125 --> 0:21:21.685 and Jane came in together. Is that is that what 0:21:21.725 --> 0:21:24.005 you said or not? That's about the one thing I've 0:21:24.005 --> 0:21:27.685 seen there in the first sentences that was correct. Okay, 0:21:28.165 --> 0:21:30.285 that can recall. Well, let me tell you this. This 0:21:30.365 --> 0:21:32.725 is a statement that we got from the police department, 0:21:33.045 --> 0:21:37.645 and this is supposed This is a copy of an 0:21:37.685 --> 0:21:41.605 interview that supposedly Bill Beach of the State Police took 0:21:41.805 --> 0:21:44.485 and this is his statement. This is anything I came 0:21:44.565 --> 0:21:48.485 up with. They changed there, They changed much stuff over 0:21:48.765 --> 0:21:53.365 the years in the department down there at that time. 0:21:55.725 --> 0:21:58.485 I'm not disputing it. I'm asking questions. I'm interested in 0:21:58.605 --> 0:22:01.285 what you're telling me. I understand, Okay, So I want 0:22:01.285 --> 0:22:05.245 to know what in here is not your statement. Sellings 0:22:05.245 --> 0:22:08.405 goes line by line and Gary don lists out what 0:22:08.445 --> 0:22:10.605 he doesn't agree with from his original state says, I 0:22:10.645 --> 0:22:12.285 went over to her and it was like the breath 0:22:12.325 --> 0:22:16.845 was knocked out of her. You're shaking your head. No, sorry, 0:22:17.085 --> 0:22:22.085 it's all right. And her shirt had come up when 0:22:22.085 --> 0:22:24.165 she fell, and I looked at her stomach and I 0:22:24.205 --> 0:22:28.125 couldn't tell that she was breathing. No, me, and somebody 0:22:28.165 --> 0:22:30.325 picked her up and put her on the porch. No, 0:22:31.045 --> 0:22:33.725 her eyes were open about halfway and rolled back, and 0:22:33.805 --> 0:22:38.325 she was not blinking. No. I believe she had messed 0:22:38.365 --> 0:22:43.485 in her pants too. No, I couldn't get anybody to 0:22:43.565 --> 0:22:46.285 help me. The urinating part is the only part that 0:22:48.525 --> 0:22:52.005 I remember it looked like to me. In this deposition, 0:22:52.605 --> 0:22:55.165 gary Don doesn't mention anything about the creek bad and 0:22:55.205 --> 0:22:57.525 the drowning theory that we had heard from Richard Walter 0:22:57.605 --> 0:23:01.805 of the Vedok Society. These answers are notably different from 0:23:01.845 --> 0:23:05.325 gary Don's original statement in nineteen eighty nine and his 0:23:05.645 --> 0:23:07.925 link the interview with Bill Beach in the months after 0:23:08.045 --> 0:23:11.965 Jane's death. In this deposition, he says he did not 0:23:12.045 --> 0:23:15.085 move Janeye onto the porch, and he also says she 0:23:15.165 --> 0:23:17.285