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Speaker 1: I'm pretty excited about both my next guest and to

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Speaker 1: announce a new thing I'm involved with. I've dropped some

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Speaker 1: hints about it earlier on earlier podcast, but I am

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Speaker 1: a participant. I'm on a steering committee. I am here,

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Speaker 1: rabble rouser, whatever you want to call me to promote

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Speaker 1: Local News Day, and the idea of Local News Day,

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Speaker 1: which is April ninth, is essentially it's an awareness day,

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Speaker 1: you know, similar to the whole premise of Earth Day

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Speaker 1: way back when it first started in the early seventies,

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Speaker 1: which is, you know, take a day to think about

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Speaker 1: you know, your role in the environment and things like that. Well,

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Speaker 1: with Local News Day, this is look our information ecosystem.

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Speaker 1: You've heard me talk about it. Why am I even

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Speaker 1: here as an independent operator these days? Right? The information

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Speaker 1: ecosystem as fragmented in a huge way. The revenue streams

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Speaker 1: for news organizations have dramatically shrunk and changed. As I

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Speaker 1: often joke, a man named Craig decided classified ought to

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Speaker 1: be free, YadA, YadA, YadA. We ended up with know

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Speaker 1: local news organizations in half the country. But the But

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Speaker 1: as much as that seems like there's been bad news,

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Speaker 1: there's been an incredible right that. You know, I always

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Speaker 1: say politics and ports of vacuum, Well, the information ecosystem

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Speaker 1: of whoors a vacuum and where people live? People want

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Speaker 1: to know what the hell's going on? As I always say,

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Speaker 1: look at you know, look at social media. How do

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Speaker 1: you know that we all like local news because we

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Speaker 1: think whatever's happening around us is important enough to share

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Speaker 1: with the world. Well, hey, that's local news. Well that's

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Speaker 1: the purpose of Local News Day. In April ninth, get

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Speaker 1: people more aware of people working in their own communities

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Speaker 1: already trying to rebuild what was an important part of

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Speaker 1: frankly civic life, uh for so many Americans over the

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Speaker 1: last two hundred years. If you want to go and

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Speaker 1: read Democracy in America by Detokeful, one of the things

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Speaker 1: that he will he marked upon when he toured America

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Speaker 1: to try to understand what made this democracy work. He

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Speaker 1: was incredibly blown away by how engaged Americans were locally. Well,

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Speaker 1: that was thanks to what was an incredible local media

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Speaker 1: that we had in the nineteenth century. Well, we're all

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Speaker 1: trying to rebuild the information ecosystem, and we know trust

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Speaker 1: is built from the bottom up. Well, somebody had to

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Speaker 1: come up with the idea of doing this, and that's

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Speaker 1: who my next guest is. It's the founder an editor

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Speaker 1: of the Montana Free Press. It's John Adams and those

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Speaker 1: of us that cover the issue of campaign finance. I

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Speaker 1: was involved in the Meet the Press film festival back

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Speaker 1: in the day and one of the films we featured

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Speaker 1: had a starring role for John Adams, and it's how

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Speaker 1: I first got to know him. So, John Adams, welcome

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Speaker 1: to the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Thanks so much, Chuck, and thanks for being a

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Speaker 2: part of this effort, and thanks for having me on

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Speaker 2: the show.

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Speaker 1: Well let me start with Look, I've put it in

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Speaker 1: my words. How'd I do fill in the gaps? Tell me?

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Speaker 1: Tell me what? Tell me what your elevator pitch is

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Speaker 1: when you tell people about Local News Day on April ninth,

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Speaker 1: mark your kelliler.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well my hope, Chuck is in one of

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Speaker 2: these days I can get you to, you know, say,

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Speaker 2: if it's April ninth, it's local news Day.

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Speaker 1: There it is. I love it. If it's April ninth,

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Speaker 1: it's local Newsday, absolutely, But in all seriousness, I mean

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 1: I know what you expressed. It was sort of when

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Speaker 1: I think we last saw each other at the Texas

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Speaker 1: Tribute Festival, and you know, it's all about how how

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Speaker 1: can we take what is? There are a ton of

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Speaker 1: incredible entrepreneurs around the country. There's a lot of incredible

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Speaker 1: people attempting to try to fill the void in places

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Speaker 1: like Montana or frankly now where I live here in Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. Where we've become a local news desert, and

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Speaker 1: I wish I were being facetious, not a it's a

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Speaker 1: serious issue. And and and this was one way you thought, well,

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Speaker 1: how do you begin to build a network of local

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Speaker 1: news entrepreneurs. Let's start with a shared day of awareness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I think it's you talked about

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Speaker 2: the fact that there's been this crisis in local news

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Speaker 2: and obviously, anybody who's paid attention in the last ten

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Speaker 2: or fifteen years, that's that's that's an old narrative, right,

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Speaker 2: we know that that's been the case for a really

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Speaker 2: long time. That's not news. But I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: the idea for Local News Day is that there's actually

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Speaker 2: so much going on on sort of the revival of

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Speaker 2: this you know, critically important civic institution, which is your

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Speaker 2: local news organizations. And you know, this Local News Day

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Speaker 2: is really about helping Americans know where they can find

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Speaker 2: that those sources of information where they live. You know,

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Speaker 2: we are as we've lost sources of local news, our

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Speaker 2: attention goes elsewhere. People are curious, people want to stay informed,

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Speaker 2: people want to be you know, in the know on things.

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Speaker 2: And we all carry around these incredibly powerful supercomputers in

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Speaker 2: our pockets that are that are radically connected to the

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Speaker 2: entire world, and so we can find out what's happening

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Speaker 2: in in you know, Israel or Iran within minutes of

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Speaker 2: it happening. But in terms of you know, what happened

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Speaker 2: to you know, why is that street closed three blocks

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Speaker 2: from my house? You may wait days to find the

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Speaker 2: answer to that, and you might have to find it

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Speaker 2: out on social media. You might have to find it

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Speaker 2: out by asking your neighbors. And you know, in a

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Speaker 2: lot of communities, they kind of left their attention which

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Speaker 2: was you know, often started their day on their doorstep,

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Speaker 2: right a paper delivered to their door. You wake up,

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Speaker 2: you drink the coffee, you unroll the paper, you read

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Speaker 2: the headlines, you you swear at the opinion page. Then

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Speaker 2: you check the local sports box scores for the basketball

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Speaker 2: game that happened the night before, what have you. And

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Speaker 2: then you end your day watching the newscast and knowing

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Speaker 2: what's going on. Sure that you might tune in for

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Speaker 2: the national news, but then you stick around to find

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Speaker 2: out about what's going on with the weather, what's going

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Speaker 2: on in your community. And you know, a lot of

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Speaker 2: those traditional sources of information didn't adapt very efficiently to

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Speaker 2: the information environment that we're currently in. But there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of us who understood, you know, saw that that

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Speaker 2: reality kind of taking shape and kind of hit the

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Speaker 2: ground trying to figure out what the next phase of

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Speaker 2: this was. The need for local news has never gone away.

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Speaker 2: The appetite for local news has never dissipated. It's just that,

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Speaker 2: you know, the business model that had supported it for

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Speaker 2: so long had kind of failed in our current information environment.

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Speaker 2: And so what this is all about is saying, like, look,

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Speaker 2: people are reinventing the business model. There are successful local

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Speaker 2: news organizations all over the country, for profit, nonprofit independence creators,

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Speaker 2: you know, people who are committed to finding out the

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Speaker 2: facts about what's going on in their community and sharing

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Speaker 2: it with with as broad of an audience of local

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Speaker 2: folks as they can. And there this campaign Local News

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Speaker 2: Day is really about highlighting, uplifting, celebrating, and connecting the

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Speaker 2: public with those sources of local news that they may

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Speaker 2: not even know exist.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's and I think we've I feel like

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Speaker 1: we kind of sort of joked about this in one

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Speaker 1: of the steering committees, but you know it, you know,

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Speaker 1: local news now kind of feels like the craft the

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Speaker 1: craft beer, you know, boom, and I hope that and

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Speaker 1: I think what we all figured out is, huh, we

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Speaker 1: don't want three national beers Cores, Miller, and Budweiser. Right

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Speaker 1: as soon as it became that, people suddenly said, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, you know, and you know, I know it

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Speaker 1: seems like a weird but but now there's truth to this. Right,

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Speaker 1: every town you go to now has their own beer.

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Speaker 1: And we see this as, oh, isn't that great. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's a local flavor or there's a local diss and

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Speaker 1: there's a local that. But in some ways it was

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Speaker 1: because we didn't like the whole commoditized aspect of this. Right,

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Speaker 1: yet the big companies scale was everything, right, There's less

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Speaker 1: money to be made if you somehow made two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty different kinds of recipes of beer. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's what hurt local news is it tried to

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Speaker 1: sort of participate in the scale economy when actually it

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Speaker 1: was just antithetical to scale and then ended up being

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Speaker 1: a mistake. But I sort of now I look at

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Speaker 1: it and it's like, yeah, local news looks different. Craft

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Speaker 1: beer is different. Sometimes you put a lot of fruit

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Speaker 1: in yours, or oh, your local news is based on

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Speaker 1: just this one neighborhood association, you know, and yet different.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you're serving a community, then you're doing

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Speaker 1: a good version of local news, right, And maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: butchering it a little bit.

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Speaker 2: But I love the metaphor.

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Speaker 1: The craft beer boomlet tells me that, you know, actually

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Speaker 1: people do care about their local identities.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think I think you're really onto something there.

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Speaker 2: And I could take that a lot further actually, because

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't know if you know this, Chuck,

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Speaker 2: but I was also for a period of time the

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Speaker 2: correspondent for the Rocky Mountain Brewing News, So you know, I.

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Speaker 1: Did not know that one that was not a that

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Speaker 1: was not a feeder question.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's not on my resume. I should put

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Speaker 2: it on there, But you know, it's really that's a

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Speaker 2: great metaphor because you know what local breweries are. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'll take Montana for example, which I know well, you know,

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Speaker 2: they're public houses. It's not just that people go there

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Speaker 2: for the unique flavor, right, they also go there for community.

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Speaker 2: They go there for connection. And I think that's one

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Speaker 2: of those things that local news really has the power

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Speaker 2: to do, which is connect people. Like you can have

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Speaker 2: disagreements and whatnot, but you're disagreeing at least around the

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Speaker 2: same set of facts about what you read in your

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Speaker 2: your local paper, heard on your local newscasts, or saw

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Speaker 2: on your local you know, your local evening newscasts, and

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Speaker 2: so you know, and like those those local beers, you know.

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Speaker 2: I think what we have found has been so successful

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Speaker 2: in you know, particularly what I've experienced mostly in the

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Speaker 2: last ten years in the nonprofit news space, is there

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Speaker 2: isn't a one size fits all business model or editorial

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Speaker 2: strategy or solution to the local news challenge. The organizations

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Speaker 2: that we're seeing that are having so much success are

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Speaker 2: you know, entities that really know their community. They know

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Speaker 2: what their community, you know, is looking for what's the gap,

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Speaker 2: you know, what what is the information that people most

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Speaker 2: need or most want, And so you know, they're they're

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Speaker 2: so tied in with what is happening. They're part of

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Speaker 2: the community that they build trust, They're reflecting the flavor

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Speaker 2: of the community in many ways, like you you can

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Speaker 2: sense the familiarity because you recognize the people, you recognize

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Speaker 2: the voices, you recognize, you know the issues that are

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Speaker 2: happening around you, and you know, like you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of craft breweries will you know, the water

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Speaker 2: that they have access to is part of what makes

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Speaker 2: their beer special. You know, the makeup of the water

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Speaker 2: is a big deal. You know, people use local barley,

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Speaker 2: local malt, local hops. You know, maybe if you're in

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Speaker 2: certain parts of the country, like Montana, you might add

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Speaker 2: a huckleberry beer to your mix during huckleberry season. And

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Speaker 2: you know, these are all things that people see kind

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Speaker 2: of reflected. They see their lived experience, their world reflected

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Speaker 2: in this thing. And that's something that they feel an

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Speaker 2: attachment to. And and I think that is what we're

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Speaker 2: trying to do with Local News Day is sort of

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Speaker 2: recreate that same kind of connection, that same kind of

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Speaker 2: attachment with the information about what's happening around them and

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Speaker 2: empowering people.

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Speaker 1: I like, look, let's talk about your origin story a

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Speaker 1: little bit with the Montana Free Press. I mean it

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Speaker 1: when you were telling me pieces of it because we

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Speaker 1: have a mutual friend, Phil Kent, who was a longtime

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Speaker 1: executive at the in the early days with Ted Turner

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Speaker 1: at CNN, and I serve with Phil Kent on a

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Speaker 1: board at GW for the School of Media and Public Affairs.

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Speaker 1: And you tell this great story where he saw the

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Speaker 1: documentary that you were in. Let's talk about the documentary

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Speaker 1: is a documentary about dark money and Montana's you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of the and this was a story about how

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Speaker 1: there was a bipartisan effort to try to you know,

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Speaker 1: Montana is different, right, the whole fight against the copper

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Speaker 1: against the longtime copper barons. I guess you might call

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Speaker 1: them really sort of create you know, there really is

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Speaker 1: a legacy of you know, skepticism of outside money, skepticism

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Speaker 1: of outsider whether you're left or right. You know, it

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Speaker 1: sort of explains why Montana politicians in general are not

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Speaker 1: cookie cutter, right, no matter which side of the isle

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Speaker 1: they send. You're like, now, a Montana Republican is not

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Speaker 1: like a regular Republican, and a Montana Democrat is not

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Speaker 1: like a national Democrat. They're just there. And because there

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Speaker 1: is a Montana identity that that is distinctive, that goes

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Speaker 1: all the way back, frankly to it to its sort

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Speaker 1: of early days as a state. And you were sort

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Speaker 1: of the featured reporter in this documentary. But but but

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Speaker 1: tell me about the doc and then what happened to

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Speaker 1: your career in the middle of the dock.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean it's one of those situations that

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Speaker 2: you know, I didn't really have any idea what I

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Speaker 2: was getting into. When Kimberly read the documentary, filmmaker reached

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Speaker 2: out to me. Kimberly is a Helen, a native born

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Speaker 2: and raised here in Montana. And you know, interestingly, Dark

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Speaker 2: Money is you know, it was a national documentary. It

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Speaker 2: public you know, it was. It was It aired on

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Speaker 2: PBS stations all over the country at a big natural

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Speaker 2: national theater release, and certainly the audience for it is

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Speaker 2: a national audience, but it really is local reporting in

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Speaker 2: a large part. It's it's it's one of those stories.

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Speaker 2: It's sort of kind of drives home how you know,

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Speaker 2: the powers and the influence of uh, you know, at

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Speaker 2: the national level can really impact you know, local communities

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Speaker 2: and local uh public policy. And that's what Dark Money

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Speaker 2: was about. And I was a reporter for the Great

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Speaker 2: False Tribune. I was the capital bureau chief for the

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Speaker 2: Great False Tribune, which was you know, at the time,

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Speaker 2: if not the most, definitely one of the most prominent.

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Speaker 2: And and uh why the newspapers that was Gannett. It

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Speaker 2: was the only Gannett owned property in Montana still is

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Speaker 2: Lee Newspapers. Uh, Lee sort of famously liberated UH five

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Speaker 2: of the largest state dailies from the copper collar, which

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Speaker 2: was ownership by the Anacona Company, which you know alludes

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Speaker 2: back to that history you talked about with the copper barons,

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Speaker 2: and you know, that one hundred year old history of

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Speaker 2: corruption and big money interest trying to buy our politics

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Speaker 2: at the local, you know, the legislative level and on

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Speaker 2: up is a fight that we've been just steeped in

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Speaker 2: here in Montana forever. And in nineteen seventy two, Montana's

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Speaker 2: got together and called a constitutional convention. We just celebrated

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Speaker 2: the fiftieth anniversary a couple of years ago the passage

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Speaker 2: of the of the new Constitution. But that new constitution

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Speaker 2: was really aimed at limiting the role of outside corporate

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Speaker 2: influence in our politics. At had strict limits on campaign finance.

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Speaker 2: And what we saw in twenty thirteen, twenty fifteen and

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Speaker 2: beyond was, you know, we had my reporting had started

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Speaker 2: to reveal like how this dark money was really infiltrating

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Speaker 2: these these local legislative elections, primarily super local.

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Speaker 1: It was a stunning discoveries. You're just like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: this company's doing what in what little state praise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, candidates were coming out of nowhere and

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Speaker 2: just getting enormous support through you know, mostly through post guards. Right,

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Speaker 2: so people's inboxes just filling up with these campaign mailers

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Speaker 2: with some really heinous messaging and allegations, sometimes just a

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Speaker 2: week before the election, right, just a few days before

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Speaker 2: the election. So the person on the other side of

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Speaker 2: that attack didn't even have a chance to respond. You

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Speaker 2: didn't know who the attacks were coming from, and you

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Speaker 2: didn't have an opportunity to respond. And it turned out,

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Speaker 2: and the documentary kind of really spells all this out,

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Speaker 2: but it turned out that there was a kind of

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Speaker 2: a group that was orchestrating all of this on behalf

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Speaker 2: of candidates and in some cases illegally coordinating with those

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Speaker 2: candidates campaign. So they weren't disclosing they were providing very

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Speaker 2: valuable political resources to a campaign, very valuable you know,

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Speaker 2: attacks and other services, but there was weren't being disclosed.

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Speaker 2: And so we you know, those of us who liked

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Speaker 2: to spend time digging around in files in the basement

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Speaker 2: of the Commission of Political Practices office, we couldn't see

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Speaker 2: who like this was a totally undisclosed money. We didn't

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Speaker 2: know how much they were spending. We didn't know who

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Speaker 2: was spending it. We didn't know, you know, whether or

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Speaker 2: not these candidates were you know, directly involved with it.

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Speaker 2: Fast forward a few years, there was a series of

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Speaker 2: trials that aimed to bring some of these elected officials

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Speaker 2: to account for this illegal coordination. And during that period

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Speaker 2: of time, I had also been laid off at the

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Speaker 2: Great False Tribune, and so I followed this story as

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Speaker 2: a political reporter for the state, one of the state's

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Speaker 2: largest dailies. And then I found myself without a job

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the twenty fifteen legislative session. And

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Speaker 2: that was what sort of gave birth to the idea

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Speaker 2: of Montana Free Press, because I looked around the state

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Speaker 2: at you know, where could I continue to do this

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Speaker 2: kind of brand of journalism, And I didn't really see

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Speaker 2: any viable options. You know, I saw a continued decline

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Speaker 2: of the print newspapers that were still you know active

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Speaker 2: in the state.

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Speaker 1: How many how many quote reporters were you competing against

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Speaker 1: in the Capitol press corps.

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Speaker 2: Well at the time, you know what, by the time

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Speaker 2: I left, it was, I know, there was you know,

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Speaker 2: a handful of TV reporters that would kind of cycle through.

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Speaker 2: Usually they weren't there for more than just a session

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Speaker 2: or two. Yeah, and then Montana's a very small media market,

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Speaker 2: so any of the good TV reporters im mediate as

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Speaker 2: soon as their contractor was up, went to a bigger market.

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Speaker 1: So you didn't have a lot of except for our

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Speaker 1: friend Mariza.

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Speaker 2: Except for our friend Mariza exactly. She's She's one of

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Speaker 2: the exceptions for sure. So you know, there was two

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Speaker 2: sort of legendary longtime state state House reporters, Chuck Johnson

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Speaker 2: and Mike Dennison, who were anchored the lead newspapers. And

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Speaker 2: those are the guys who I really kind of looked

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Speaker 2: at as my competition. Chuck had been doing it for

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Speaker 2: that point, you know, probably close to forty years. I'd

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Speaker 2: followed a Mike and Chuck's footsteps in both the Great

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Speaker 2: Falls Tribune and and then they went on to the

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Speaker 2: lead bureau, And so we were friendly competitors, you know,

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Speaker 2: much as I'm sure you kind of experience, you know

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Speaker 2: in DC, you know, you want to beat them on

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Speaker 2: a scoop, but you also, you know, have fun conversations

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Speaker 2: in the basement of.

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Speaker 1: The team press score against those those partisan you know,

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Speaker 1: guys left and right trying to keep the press out.

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Speaker 1: You know, we all band together on that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then a few months after I, uh, after

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Speaker 2: I was let go from the Tribune, Mike and Chuck

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Speaker 2: were basically forcing a retirement from Lee. And so within

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Speaker 2: just a matter of months, the you know, three of

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Speaker 2: the most experienced Statehouse reporters in the capitol were out

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Speaker 2: on the street, so to speak. And and there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of concern about who was going to cover

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Speaker 2: what's going on. And we were still in the midst

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Speaker 2: of all this dark money stuff, and you know, the

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Speaker 2: need for legislative coverage certainly hadn't gone away, and that,

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Speaker 2: you know, and that's what I really understood. You know,

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Speaker 2: Montana Free Press was founded on the belief that this

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Speaker 2: journalism has value, whether or not it is uh, you know, clickbait,

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Speaker 2: whether or not it is the kind you know, ass

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Speaker 2: as news models had really kind of focused on on

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Speaker 2: views over news. It's sort of like the main value

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Speaker 2: proposition to advertisers. I still believe that there were people.

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Speaker 2: There might not be as many advertisers who are interested

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Speaker 2: in it, but the individuals still cared about that kind

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Speaker 2: of reporting. So I found a Montana Free Press is

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Speaker 2: a nonprofit kind of focused on state house coverage with

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Speaker 2: the with the idea that those who understood how important

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Speaker 2: that coverage is would support it through their you know,

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Speaker 2: charitable giving their fill and throught support.

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Speaker 1: that don't last. Go to qui nce dot com slash

433
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Speaker 1: chuck for free shipping, three hundred and sixty five day

434
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Speaker 1: returns quints dot com slash chuck. This episode of the

435
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: Chuck Toodcast is brought to you by American Financing. So

436
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Speaker 1: if you looked at your credit card statement lately, you're

437
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438
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439
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440
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Speaker 1: one zero eight one. Or go to Americanfinancing dot net.

454
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: Slash the Chuck toodcast use that code.

455
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: You know.

456
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: I was talking with somebody the other day about this

457
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: issue on news and it was just sort of this

458
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: person made a point of how particularly the larger local

459
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: news operations didn't didn't ever bring the readers into the

460
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: challenge that frankly, local news was facing for the last

461
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: twenty five years. Right this issue, you know, the concern

462
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 1: about shrinking newspaper coverage of state capitals was a huge

463
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: issue in the nineties, and then it became a really

464
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: problematic in the early odds, and it was the sort

465
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: of the first round of consolidation, you know, the initial

466
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: ganetification of local news, right when Gannett gobbled up all

467
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 1: these dailies back in the late eighties early nineties.

468
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: Kindly the one my hometown daily that my mom worked for.

469
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: And then you had night Rider was doing it. McClatchy

470
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: was doing it. The night Ritter swallowed McClatchy or McLatchy

471
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: swallowed night Rider, I can't remember which. And but this

472
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 1: person pointed out they never brought the reader in to explain,

473
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, how the economics were changing, and hey, this

474
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: is why the Sunday paper is now seven dollars instead

475
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: of a dollar fifty. This is why you can't just

476
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: use pocket change to go to a newspaper vending machine

477
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: and get a copy of the paper. Right it was

478
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: we were getting up to two dollars of paper, three

479
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: dollars of paper, which is still a bargain considering everything

480
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: you got in in. But it was necessary in order

481
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: to do that. What I think is interesting, it's sort

482
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: of like local news didn't bring the community along with

483
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: its problems in the eighties and nineties and the nineties

484
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: and odds. But now as we're read as local is

485
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: reinventing itself, you do get the sense that people understand.

486
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: And I guess part of it is social media has

487
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: taught us the power of community, right, And it's like, well,

488
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: you can create you don't have to create a community,

489
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: this one already exists. Just just just tap into it.

490
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: But if you let readers know what you're up to,

491
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: then you'll find out what readers want, right.

492
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that will support and I think that, you know,

493
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: I really kind of cringe and roll my eyes. You'll

494
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 2: hear some folks talk about, you know, the need for

495
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 2: media literacy, and I don't disagree that they're you know

496
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 2: that that that that's a real challenge, but I think

497
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 2: it also really sort of under sells the general public's

498
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 2: like desire to be informed. And I don't think it's

499
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 2: just that, and I don't suggest that that's what you're saying, Chuck,

500
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: But it's not just that the news industry did didn't

501
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: do a good enough job bringing readers along on the

502
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: on the problems. You know, part of it is I

503
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: think audiences were distracted you know, we had these new, shiny,

504
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 2: very attractive objects in smartphones that were uh, in social media.

505
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 2: I mean these things. I mean, in my personal opinion,

506
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: we let this genie out of the bottle without really

507
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: thinking it through when it comes to, you know, putting

508
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: super connected supercomputers in everybody's pocket and then unleashing social

509
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 2: media and algorithms on the population without any real like

510
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 2: thought about what that would do and how those those motive.

511
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: I've got good news for you, John, is that we're,

512
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: you know, this time, as we're rolling out artificial intelligence

513
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: and AI for everybody innybody's hand, we're we're doing such

514
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: a better Oh wait right, yeah, we're literally the tech

515
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: companies who already completely broke the information ecosystem, totally distorted it,

516
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: totally ruined it, and we're trusting these people that come

517
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: up with sort of permanent facts on behalf of society,

518
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,479
Speaker 1: which is essentially what AI is going to. They're going

519
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: to normative, as somebody put it to me, you know,

520
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: AI is sort of what becomes normalized. Yeah, eighty percent

521
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: of what's normalized is factually true, but twenty percent of

522
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: what normal is normalized over time is not. You know,

523
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, take the take the myth about I mean,

524
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: this just came up recently. We were watching a new

525
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: documentary and Catherine the Great and of course there's this

526
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: infamous rumor about Catherine the Great and her and her

527
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: sexcapades with a supposed horse. Okay, well, this is a

528
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: piece of misinformation that has actually survived hundreds of years

529
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,239
Speaker 1: and there are still people who factually believe it. And

530
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: now we're going to take AI and essentially take what

531
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: normalized rumors that become factualized. And you know, I have

532
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: people that are in the world of worrying about, you know,

533
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: the rise of anti Semitism and the history of Israel

534
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: getting sort of distorted by AI chatbots. This is these

535
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: are the same people that have algorithmed us to death,

536
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: and now we're doing this. So it's anyway, I don't

537
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: mean to digress there, but is this is why we

538
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: need new sources of information to continue to feed these

539
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: language models who are gobbling up and potentially spitting out garbage.

540
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean you're making a really strong case.

541
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 2: And I think that is one of the reasons why

542
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 2: people are so excited about local news day and you

543
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: know where I think we have this incredible moment right

544
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: now where you know, I think the public. You know,

545
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: there's studies out there that show that a lot of

546
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 2: younger people are a lot savvier, They're a lot hipper

547
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 2: to these things than we give them credit for. And

548
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: it truly is my parents generation that it is, you

549
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: know that love local news currently, who are the ones

550
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: that like struggle the most to sort of like draw

551
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 2: the distinction between what's real and what's fake online? And

552
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: you know, my parents can't tell what's AI and what's not.

553
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: I'm John.

554
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: I can't. I you know, I sit there and I

555
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: you know, You'll see on social media and I'll see

556
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: people say, well, this is obvious AI slop And I'm

557
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: always like, how do you know? Yeah, and how do

558
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: you I want to know how you know this because

559
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: I want to see it. I want to know it's

560
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: a slop. I now just assume it's all a I slop.

561
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: Well, and that's why you go go to the source, right,

562
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: I Mean, that's the first thing that we do when

563
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: we see something. When I see something that I don't

564
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: know if it's real or not, I go, well, what's

565
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 2: the source? Where did this come from? And you know,

566
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: if I can't find a person behind it, like an

567
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 2: actual human being. Right, If I can't trace it back

568
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: to a real person, then I just assume that it's

569
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: probably not worth trusting. And I think that's how a

570
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: lot of people are getting right. I mean, it's you

571
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 2: use the brewery analogy. One that's really kind of feels

572
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: relevant to me is just the dramatic increase in vinyl

573
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: record sales in recent years. And now you're seeing, you know,

574
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: magazine sales are starting to pick up, and you're starting

575
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: to see or some places are even going back to

576
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: print or increasing print because more people are kind of

577
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 2: seeking the tangible nature, the more permanency of an analog product.

578
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: And so I'm not suggesting that we all go analog overnight,

579
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 2: but I do think that local news is something that

580
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 2: you can It's tangible, right. You can go to an

581
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 2: event and meet the people who are producing it. You

582
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: can you know, you can go to a website and

583
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: see that they have the same you know, zip code

584
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: or area code is you and and you know, as

585
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: people are looking for what's real and what's not, connecting

586
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 2: with local news sources who you know and you know

587
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: they're real because they're they're in front of you, they're

588
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: they're participating, they're in your community. I think there's going

589
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: to be a strong demand for the authenticity of local

590
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: news over the uncertainty of everything else.

591
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: John, I think one thing that we haven't talked about this,

592
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: but I imagine you feel this because I can sort

593
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: of say because I feel the same way as I'm not.

594
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: I've never been comfortable trying to cheerlead doing this job,

595
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: and reporters in general are uncomfortable cheerleading. And social media

596
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: change this right it said, no, no, no, no. If you

597
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: don't cheerlead your information, no one's going to see it,

598
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: No one's going to read it. And I'm trying to

599
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: get religion on this, and you know, every day I

600
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: get a little more comfortable realizing, yeah, you got to

601
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: you got to sing for your supper. You know, as

602
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: an old saying goes, just how hard is it? I mean,

603
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: you don't. You don't strike me as somebody who you

604
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: know wants, hey, look look at me, put the spotlight

605
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: on me. And yet you know, in order to drive relevancy,

606
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: in order to make sure people are looking at their

607
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: stuff that should be looking at her stuff, you kind

608
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: of have to do that, so how did how did

609
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: you sort of how have you broken through whatever whatever discomfort?

610
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: And I always say as journalists, we were sort of like, hey,

611
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: let the facts speak for themselves, right. That always is

612
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: sort of a phrase that like rolled in my head

613
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 1: the early days of early editors that I work for.

614
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 1: And yet it turns out that's not it's it's that's

615
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: not a way to build a successful local news startup.

616
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: You know, I think we can. It's an interesting question,

617
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: And again I don't know that there's necessarily one size

618
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 2: fits all answer to that either, because again I think

619
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: it really kind of depends on the community you serve.

620
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 2: And you know, we're a state organization. We we still

621
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 2: consider Montana Free Press local. We do have local reporters

622
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 2: in three communities in the state, and we're looking to

623
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: expand in a fourth and billions this year. So we

624
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 2: do have local reporters on the ground covering local issues

625
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 2: and UH and we send our reporters to the two

626
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: local communities to report on for and about those communities.

627
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 2: But I think showing up first and foremost. I think,

628
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 2: you know, being present and showing up is really important.

629
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 2: I think showing your work is another one. I think

630
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 2: there's you know, a lot of people just don't understand,

631
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 2: you know, they've got a conception of what reporters are

632
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 2: from the media, the popular media where usually you know,

633
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: it's a it's a jerk, you know, with a camera

634
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 2: or microphone, you know, you know, trying to catch somebody

635
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: in a in a in a hard spot or you know,

636
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 2: a tragedy or what have you. And like, sure, that's

637
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 2: part of it too, but a lot of us, most

638
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 2: of us, really it's it's about you know, showing up,

639
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 2: being there to represent the interest of audience, Like what

640
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 2: what what's the audience going to care about? What are

641
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 2: my readers? And as a as a print reporter, what

642
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 2: are the people who read Montana Free Press? What do

643
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 2: they want to know? And what information do I need

644
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 2: to get because I want to, you know, interpret their

645
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 2: their questions even before they ask them. And and this

646
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: really came clear to me even before I lost my

647
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 2: job at the trip where I had written I was

648
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 2: one of the first reporters in the state the blog,

649
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: not the first, but one of the first. And I

650
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: had a blog and in my blog, I had taken

651
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 2: the Attorney General to task over what I thought was

652
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 2: an inappropriate attack on the Associated Press, which had you know,

653
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 2: very reasonably asked for public information, and instead of producing

654
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: that public information or denying it and you know, going

655
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 2: through the necessary you know channels, you know, sometimes they

656
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: deny it and then we sue them and then the

657
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 2: courts decide whether we have access to that information or not.

658
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 2: Rather than kind of go that traditional route, the Attorney General,

659
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: you know, issued a press release denying it and saying

660
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 2: that he was protecting gun owners' rights from the prying

661
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 2: eyes of you know, the news media that you know,

662
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 2: was asking for information about concealed carry permits. You know,

663
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 2: which communities have the most concealed carry permits. This is

664
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: information they've been asking for for years and publishing stories

665
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: that would say, you know, they would report on the trends,

666
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: you know, never like listing who has concealed carry permits.

667
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 2: But that's sort of like that attack on that a

668
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 2: P reporter led to a doxing incident, one of the

669
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: early docing incidents, where that AP reporter his his name address,

670
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 2: Google images of his house were posted on an extreme

671
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 2: far right you know, extremist network. And I took issue

672
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: with that and I called I made my my attitudes known,

673
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 2: and that very quickly led to an invitation for the

674
00:37:55,200 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 2: Montana Tea Party Association to come basically answer for my

675
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 2: my attacks on the Second Amendment. So I took that invitation.

676
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 2: I went to an evangelical church out in the out

677
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 2: in the helen and of our valley, and they wanted

678
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 2: to know, like why I wrote what I wrote, and

679
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: why I think journalists should have access to that information.

680
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: And we had a really interesting conversation where we heard

681
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 2: each other right, like, I heard what their concerns were,

682
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: and then I said, let me tell you how we

683
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: do our job, why we do our job, why this

684
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: information is important, why the Montana Constitution has a right

685
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: to know. And I kind of explained just sort of

686
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 2: like the whole process and how the role that journalism

687
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: plays in representing the public in holding their government officials accountable.

688
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 2: And it didn't take long for them to make those

689
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 2: connections and see that this was a more complex story

690
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: than the sound bites might have you believe, and that

691
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 2: takes work. Right. Every journalist doesn't have time to go

692
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 2: out there and have individual conversations about every single story,

693
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 2: but we do. We do through the technology and the

694
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: platforms that we have access to now, like what we're

695
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 2: doing right here, we can show our work to a

696
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 2: broader base of people. We can talk more about not

697
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,439
Speaker 2: just what we do, but how we do it, why

698
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 2: it's important, and it doesn't all have to be negativity,

699
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 2: and it doesn't all have to be accountability. Some of

700
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 2: it is, you know, we provide a public service that

701
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 2: isn't always just you know, getting people in trouble or

702
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 2: you know, quote unquote holding public officials accountable. A lot

703
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 2: of what we do is just informing people.

704
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,560
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736
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758
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759
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 2: You know.

760
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: One of the things that I've come to, you know

761
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: what the biggest difference between local and national And I

762
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: used to say and sort of why national media trusts

763
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: you know what, guy? What has gotten me into the

764
00:42:55,280 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: local space is my conclusion that the law loss of

765
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: trusted local character references or national news media. You know

766
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,720
Speaker 1: that that in some ways, if you trusted your local

767
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: news outlet, then you were more likely to trust the

768
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: national news outlet that local news outlet was affiliated with.

769
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: And now we've gone the other way, which is, you know,

770
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: it's like Fox News viewers nationally only trust the local

771
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: Fox right, And it used to be the other way around.

772
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: If you trusted your local then then that worked its

773
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: way up. And so and the conclusion that I drew

774
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: as to why that was, well, one is you fact

775
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: check local every day, right, you find out what the

776
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: weather is, you know, or little things like that. And

777
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: if they're misinforming you on the weather and traffic as

778
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 1: you're getting ready to work or whatever it is, well,

779
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 1: you're not going to trust them for anything else. Right.

780
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: If they take at the they take at the weather, right,

781
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: they're got to get the other stuff. But local also

782
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: served a different purpose than National. Right, National told you

783
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: the things that you should know as a citizen. Local

784
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: was informing you of things that you both needed to

785
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: know to live your life. But sometimes stuff that you

786
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 1: kind of it's kind of cool to know, right right.

787
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: That might be local sports. That might be you know,

788
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 1: the local play that's coming to town. So it's it's

789
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: finding out what's happening in the neighborhood. It might be

790
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 1: where do I find cheaper groceries I'm a little you know?

791
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: Or or hey, what grocery stores accept snap benefits in

792
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: which grocery stores don't write, or things like that, And

793
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 1: it was just sort of the the consumer. It was

794
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: the consumer aspect of of helping the helping your reader,

795
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: who's also a consumer, right, be helpful. And I will

796
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: say this, my biggest concern with the rise of a

797
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: lot of local use outlets right now is that I

798
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 1: think we all want to, you know, as my my

799
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: friend Richard Gingris, who was at the Google News Initiative

800
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: for a very long time and he's now working with

801
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: a company in Canada that's doing some interesting local news

802
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: work called Village Media by the way, But Richard said

803
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: the worst thing to happen to journalism was all the

804
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: presidents men, because it's a whole generation of us all

805
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: wanted to be Bob Boarder, right, and it was all

806
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: about accountability when there's a service part to journalism right

807
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 1: where we're just sort of a public servant. Right, we're

808
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: letting you know, hey, there's going to be a rise

809
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: in electric bills this week, but we're also going to

810
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: let you know that, hey, there's a sale. You know,

811
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: sometimes you saw the sale via an advertiser, or sometimes

812
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: you found out, hey, if you you know, there's there's

813
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: cheaper chicken at the Aldies this week versus the Trader

814
00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: Joe's this week or wherever it is. And I think

815
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: sometimes with some of our journalism colleagues, it's hard to

816
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: tell them and hey, you know, you got to just

817
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: help people live their life too, And you may not

818
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: see that as journalism, but that's how you build trust.

819
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And I mean we do that. You

820
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 2: know at Montana Free Press. That became really obvious to

821
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 2: us in the pandemic, right like, there were just a

822
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 2: handful there were three of.

823
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: Us useful items, right like, how do I do this?

824
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: Where do I find this? Yeah?

825
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 2: And you know, the beautiful thing is we have such

826
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 2: incredibly powerful to us some of the technologies and some

827
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 2: of the platforms and some of the things that you know,

828
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: we could point to that said, you know, these are

829
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 2: part of the problem.

830
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: They're also saying there's other things. You're right, there's other

831
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: things they do for the solutions.

832
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 2: And you know, one of the things that we did

833
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 2: that I that was you know, it didn't seem all

834
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,800
Speaker 2: that novel at the time, but I think in Montana

835
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 2: in that moment, it was a degree of a novel

836
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,439
Speaker 2: approach to journalism. Was you know, we there were three

837
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 2: of us publishing in the newsroom at the time. We

838
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 2: had just hired a business person and you know, our

839
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: first business person. So we were a team of four,

840
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 2: I believe when the pandemic hit and we had the shutdown,

841
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 2: and I had a weekly podcast at the time called

842
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 2: The Lowdown, which is now the Montana Lowdown, which is

843
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: now the name of our weekly newsletter. And I went

844
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 2: from a weekly podcast to a daily podcast, and it

845
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: went from being sort of a like a big you

846
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: know something along akin to what you and I are

847
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 2: doing now, to something a little bit more like, hey,

848
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 2: here the here are the ten things you need to

849
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 2: know today or the three things that you need to

850
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 2: know today.

851
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,879
Speaker 1: So you're almost like the morning drive time radio guy.

852
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 2: I was just trying, you know, it was my.

853
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,240
Speaker 1: Job helping with the local news, helping with the local

854
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: like good morning of your cup of coffee, A better

855
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: be careful of this today?

856
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. One of the I remember one of

857
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 2: the episodes was talking to the heads of you know,

858
00:47:54,120 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 2: shelters that house domestic violence victims, you know, and like

859
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 2: that suddenly in Montana in March, when the temperatures are

860
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 2: in the teens are below is a real serious problem, right,

861
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 2: So like kind of just shifting what we did to

862
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 2: sort of like meet the moment, and then you know,

863
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 2: doing things like looking at Google Search console and seeing

864
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 2: what are people in Montana asking Google about the pandemic?

865
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,760
Speaker 2: And then now we know the questions that the public

866
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 2: has on their mind. Let's go out and get those answers.

867
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 2: And so we went from a weekly newsletter to a

868
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 2: daily newsletter and we had a COVID tracker that you know,

869
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 2: just provided just a running you know, latest, this is

870
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 2: what we know, this is what's happening. And what we

871
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: saw was just a massive, you know, increase in audience overnight.

872
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: And what that told us was if you're giving people

873
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 2: information that they can use, If if you're doing things

874
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 2: that can help them understand the thing that they care

875
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: most about right now in a way that they feel

876
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 2: gives them some sense of comfort, some sense of agency,

877
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 2: then they're going to reward you. They're going to reward you,

878
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: may becomeing a reader. They're going to reward you. If

879
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 2: you're a for profit model, maybe they're going to subscribe.

880
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 2: If you're a nonprofit model, maybe they're going to donate.

881
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 2: And you know, that's what we saw, as you know,

882
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 2: and then that became kind of just sort of a

883
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 2: big part of the ethos is like give people things

884
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 2: that they want. Yes, we're going to also give them

885
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 2: things that they we think they need, but we want

886
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 2: to make sure that we're not ignoring what it is

887
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 2: that they want, because it's not a supply side problem

888
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 2: is we need to be meeting the demand, right. That

889
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 2: is the issue is, you.

890
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: Know, it's this fine line of look, what the algorithms

891
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: do only seem to give people what they want, versus

892
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: if you know your own readers, you've got to figure

893
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: out how to walk that line, right, which is, yeah,

894
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, we know what you want, and but you know,

895
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: here's something you need to know. You know, And I

896
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: always say, if they trust you with helping you live

897
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: their lives, then they'll trust you when you tell them

898
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: that their city councilman's corrupt.

899
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly, And again that kind of goes back

900
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 2: is showing up to I mean, we do a lot

901
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 2: of live events.

902
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: We do.

903
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: We create a lot of opportunities for for public engagement,

904
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 2: and our reporters get on the ground in in communities

905
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: and build relationships and you know, showing up building relationships,

906
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 2: being authentic, that's what local news does, you know, And

907
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 2: that local news that it's best is is reflecting what

908
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 2: the community cares about, what the community's identity is about,

909
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 2: what you know, it's it's warts and all, but when

910
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 2: people see themselves that their community, the things they cared

911
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 2: about reflected in a news source, then they develop loyalty

912
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 2: and again, you know, our goal with Local News Day

913
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 2: is to really highlight those folks who are doing that,

914
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,439
Speaker 2: to get people who didn't maybe know that they had

915
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 2: local news in their right. You know, there's a lot

916
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people in this in this state

917
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,959
Speaker 2: who don't know who they've never heard of Montana Free Press.

918
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people in Helena, where we're based,

919
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 2: where we have a local newsletter, who've never heard of it, right,

920
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 2: And that's just because there's so much information out there. Right,

921
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 2: people are inundated with information, and so Local News Day

922
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 2: our goal is to flood the zone. Right that on

923
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 2: April ninth, people all over the country are talking about

924
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 2: local news and if they go to Localnewsday dot org,

925
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 2: there will be a very user friendly tool there for

926
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 2: them to locate local news entities in their area or

927
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 2: an area they care about. And our hope is that

928
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 2: on this day we can you know, significantly grow audiences

929
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: for local news and strengthen the local news ecosystem and

930
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 2: in doing so, you know, make more connections, bring more

931
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 2: people together. Lord knows, there are plenty of platforms and

932
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 2: and and you know, profit seeking entities that really kind

933
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,919
Speaker 2: of thrive off of division, and this is one of those,

934
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 2: I think, really unique opportunities to you know, rise all

935
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 2: boats with connection.

936
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: And there's really you know, you know, basically there's no

937
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: there's no litmus test for being a member of this

938
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: of of this uh community at this point, right to

939
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: be a part of the local news, I mean, other

940
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: than being a legitimate you know, a legitimate local proprietor.

941
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I mean it's like giving Tuesday or you know,

942
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 2: I remember when I was a kid Earth Day, you know,

943
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 2: my third grade class going out and planting the tree,

944
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 2: a tree that was a little sapling when I planted

945
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: it back in third grade. And when I drive by

946
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 2: my hometown, it's now a giant maple tree. Right, you

947
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 2: know these it's whatever, whatever is meaningful to you. I mean,

948
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 2: if you're already somebody who really cares about local news,

949
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 2: help spread the word, you know, share it on your

950
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 2: social media, forward emails from your local news providers to

951
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,720
Speaker 2: the people in your world who you think would would

952
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 2: would be interested in it. If you're a business or

953
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 2: an institution who understands the just the critical public service

954
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 2: that that local news provides, celebrate it, put a banner

955
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 2: in your lobby, you know, put a put a logo

956
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:10,399
Speaker 2: on your website.

957
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: Look, the better local news does, the better local businesses

958
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: can target future customers. I mean, I just I really,

959
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: I really believe that because I've learned from a lot

960
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: of local businesses and doing what I was trying to

961
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 1: do and tried to scale local news, which is not easy.

962
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: Scaling local news is in some ways maybe it's impossible, right,

963
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: just like Gennett proved is it is tough to scale.

964
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean you can't network it. It doesn't

965
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 1: mean there aren't old ways like UPI and stuff like

966
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,720
Speaker 1: that where you can sort of recreate systems that actually enhance,

967
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 1: help scale certain parts of the operations process while still

968
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 1: allowing local proprietors to have their identities. How many participating

969
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: organizations do we have already? I know, it's a bunch,

970
00:53:59,200 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: you know.

971
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 2: We're yeah, I think we're approaching seven hundred newsrooms.

972
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: The goal is five hundred, right, the goal in year.

973
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 2: One was five hundred. We wanted newsrooms and all fifty states. Yep.

974
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 2: I think we're yeah, we're approaching seven hundred newsrooms. Somewhere

975
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 2: in there I might be a little it's between six

976
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,839
Speaker 2: and seven hundred. And then we've got we've got more

977
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 2: than one hundred partner organizations. We're looking to grow that.

978
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 2: So if if there are institutions organizations out there that

979
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 2: are interested in being a part of this, we'd love

980
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 2: to hear from you. Visit Local newsday dot org and

981
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 2: and uh click on the you know, the join us button,

982
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 2: and what what it means to be a partner is

983
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 2: basically saying, yeah, I really love this idea, I want

984
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 2: to support Local News Day and we're going to amplify

985
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 2: the message on April ninth. And then we've got about

986
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 2: a little about a dozen sponsors that are that are

987
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 2: supporting this cause with with direct financial contributions. So you know,

988
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 2: our goal here is not to you know, to raise

989
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:03,919
Speaker 2: a bunch of money and spend a bunch of money.

990
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 2: Our goal here is really to get the word out

991
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 2: and really energize people all over the country to on

992
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 2: one day come together and really express how much they

993
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 2: value local news and how much local news elevates their community.

994
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean it's as simple as subscribe, find out

995
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 1: you know, in my I live in Arlington, Virginia, and

996
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 1: we have Arlington now. It is mostly a digital feed

997
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: that's mostly a Twitter feed, but it is the only

998
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: entity we have that covers Arlington government and what's happening

999
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: in the Arlington community. It's like that, and you know,

1000
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: various list serves in different communities, at little subcommunities within Arlington,

1001
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: and it's you know, I'm thankful for the gentleman that's

1002
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: behind Arlington now. He's like a one man operation, you know,

1003
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 1: and he's been plugging away at it for some time.

1004
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 1: And it is you know, the Washington Post ceased covering

1005
00:55:57,880 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 1: local news a long time ago. A bunch of us

1006
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: know notice, but they used to at least cover the

1007
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: city of Washington. Just sort of pulled up stakes there.

1008
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: It is, so you know, if people just to simply

1009
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: subscribe right, sign up for the email alert, if there's

1010
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: an email alert, sign up for the feed, if there's

1011
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: a feed. You know, most of these local proprietors are

1012
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: not going to beg you for money. They'll let you

1013
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: sign up and then you know, yes, we'd like it

1014
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: to if you're if you're getting something out of it,

1015
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: we hope you will give something back or in something

1016
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: that we used to call a subscription.

1017
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, for profit or nonprofit really the

1018
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 2: you know, my.

1019
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: View holdful that we have a for profit model that

1020
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: is sustainable over time, because I do worry the nonprofit

1021
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: is sort of you know, you want you want to

1022
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: you want a self sustaining ecosystem, you know, whether it's Look,

1023
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: I think that there's a case to be made. The

1024
00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: classified could make a comeback. You know, ple do care

1025
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: about obituaries. And there are different ways and events you

1026
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 1: talk about being in person events or another way you

1027
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: can create revenue and and things. And look, you you

1028
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: are going to have to be ah, you know, you

1029
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: gotta gotta be experimental.

1030
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. And you know the what I our

1031
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 2: friend Evan Smith always like to say that, you know,

1032
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 2: one of the founders of the Texas Tributne like to

1033
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 2: say that your your tax status is not a business model, right,

1034
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 2: I mean, uh, and that's really true. But at the

1035
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 2: end of the day, local news matters, Uh, only if

1036
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 2: it's reaching an audience that it can have an impact. Right.

1037
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 2: If you're doing great journalism but nobody knows about it,

1038
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 2: that isn't doing any good. And if you're doing great

1039
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 2: journalism and not enough people are reading it then you

1040
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 2: don't have a long term path to sustainability. So audiences

1041
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 2: are critically import for local news from the business model standpoint,

1042
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 2: both from an impact this is how our journalism matters

1043
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 2: by reaching enough people that that that a critical mass

1044
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 2: of uh informed public can can take you know, appropriate

1045
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 2: action when need be. And also it's about the sustainability.

1046
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 2: You know, whether your for profit and your your your

1047
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 2: money is coming from you know, advertising revenue. Those advertisers

1048
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 2: care about your audience. And if your nonprofit, your audience

1049
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 2: is a significant source of revenue in the forms of

1050
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,919
Speaker 2: individual donations and and also earned revenue. So it's really

1051
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 2: about growing audience across the country for local news for

1052
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 2: sustainability impact.

1053
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: John Local News Day, I'm I'm fired up and every week,

1054
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: uh you're kicking it off, but every week I'm going

1055
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 1: to be talking to a different local news entrepreneur and

1056
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 1: just talk about the different business models used. As a nonprofit.

1057
00:58:56,160 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 1: There are not for profits, there are ones that are

1058
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: subscription based, ones that are ads supported, you know. So

1059
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 1: there's all different models and we frankly want to showcase

1060
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 1: all of them, you know, and sometimes there's different there's

1061
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: ethic based local media that's doing tremendous jobs for different

1062
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 1: first gen communities. So we're going to feature at least

1063
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: one different type of local news outlet between now and

1064
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 1: April ninth. I'm looking forward to it.

1065
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 2: Well, Chuck, we really appreciate it. It's been a pleasure

1066
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 2: having you on the team. We're excited to have you

1067
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 2: be a part of this movement, and we appreciate the

1068
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 2: support of you and all of your viewers and listeners.

1069
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 1: And look, I'm just glad you picked April Night because

1070
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 1: April lates my birthday, so you know, and my birthday

1071
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: wishes to participate in Local News Day and April Night.

1072
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 2: All right, Well let's do it, all right, brother, Thanks, Thanks,

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00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 2: Jeock appreciated it.