WEBVTT - Bella Freud 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.680 You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair. 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:08.879 Whenever I'm with Bella Freud, which isn't often enough, I 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:11.520 always wish I could see more of her. She's in 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.600 fashion and I'm in food. A meal is a moment, 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.720 and an outfit changes daily. Right now, I'm wearing Bella's 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:22.840 iconic nineteen seventy sweater. A few years ago she created 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:25.720 an Nemesis sweater for the River Cafe, and one of 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:30.000 my most treasured possessions is a Bella sweater, saying Bella, this, 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:35.040 Bella that. In our early years, Bella's father, Lucien Freud, 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.680 came almost every day to the River Cafe. When with Bella, 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:42.400 we were told never to interrupt, as this was their 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:46.800 precious time. Now, when Bella comes with her friends. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:48.080 I always wish I could whisk her. 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:52.840 Away and have her all to myself. Today, on Table four, 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:54.120 I finally am. 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:57.720 Thank you, Ruthie. It's so nice to have you here. 0:00:58.160 --> 0:00:59.960 And it is true you did come with your dad. 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.280 Yeah, and sometimes he do risk me away when I'm 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.200 here and I don't know. I love it. You beckon 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:08.559 to me and say come here, and then we stand 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:10.040 behind a corner. Are they talking? 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:11.760 What are they doing? In this world? 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:13.959 We have to talk or just talk about each other. 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.280 What are your memories of your dad coming here? 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:20.040 I remember we came here when it first started. We 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:22.920 jump in the car, and then he drove very fast, 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:28.880 terribly terrifyingly. I'm very good at kind of masquerading a calmness, 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.039 and some of it's learnt from sitting next to him 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:36.800 while he drove in this petrifying way. He'd drive very 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:41.000 fast towards something and then swerve suddenly, so then we'd 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:41.880 arrive and. 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:45.679 Lived another moment. Great food. 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.080 And I remember he also used to come here with Lee. 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:52.360 Barry and Lee used to learn all about food from 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.080 eating out with Dad and coming here. And I always 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.960 remember this moment him saying, yes, the poach pears are 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:03.040 very good. It was so lovely. 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.960 I remember one day he came and we had a 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.880 sign on the door because we were painting the restaurant. 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:12.720 We closed for lunch. We only opened for lunch, and 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.600 I said, listen, I'm really really sorry that you know 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:19.200 we're closed today, but I'll cook you something and he said, 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:20.720 I have a better idea. I'm going to take you 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.360 out to lunch, and yeah, he took me to Kensington 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.360 Place and we had lunch. He was just fantastic, you know, 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:31.960 spontaneous and kind and just caring and talking to me 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:35.000 and asking me about me, you know, and it was 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.560 very It was one of the great moments in my life. 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:38.600 Yeah, he was fun. 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.080 He was such a good company and he made you 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:42.240 feel so special. 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:44.760 I used to come in those trousers with Peter all 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:47.240 over them, and you know, he was great. 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:48.200 It was exciting. 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:50.800 It's very interesting you were saying that a lot of 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:54.160 your experience of eating with him was in restaurants. 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.880 I remember going because I lived in the country and 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:02.000 i'd camp to London and all my sort of encounters 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:03.720 with him as I got to know him when I 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.960 was little were we used to go to marine IC's 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.040 when I was very small, and then he would take 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:15.160 us to this Greek restaurant in notting Hill. But it 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.120 was always a meeting to do with being in a 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.920 restaurant and the food. I would be quite nervous, so 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:28.639 the food was probably secondary, but that was the context. 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.799 And then you know, when i'd sit for him. When 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.440 I moved to London when I was sixteen, we'd work 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:39.520 and have this break and zoom out, go somewhere very 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:43.040 fast and come back. But then sometimes he would cook, 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.000 and he was a very good cook, and it was 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:51.080 very different from how my mother cooked. It was well, 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:55.880 I mean, we just didn't have very much food. And 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.400 when you asked me to be on this podcast, I 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.840 was like, oh my god, I didn't. In the sixties 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:05.120 and seventies, there wasn't much food around, and then my 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:10.880 mother she didn't have There was no food abundance. And 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.880 my overriding memory was the food we did have took 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.360 about a day or two, like it was lentils, it 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.479 was hippie food. There were no snacks, there was no 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:25.960 nothing to eat, and I was hungry quite a lot 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.560 of the time. So I have a kind of strange 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.920 attitude to I think. So let's go about your mum 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:34.839 in the sixties. 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:35.880 She would have been hold. 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:40.000 She was eighteen when I was born, so very young, 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.480 and she wasn't married and her parents didn't even know 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:47.280 she had children until me and my sister esther were 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.920 about I think I was four, and someone saw us 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.680 walking down the street and told her parents, who lived 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.640 in Ireland, and so it was very you know, she 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.920 had a that's tough, yeah, having to be have two children. 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:04.840 But your father was an art involved it was. 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.719 They lit up when I was two, and he wasn't 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:13.240 at all hands on or she made an effort to 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.120 make sure that we saw him. And he was always 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:21.120 very responsive as a father and very affectionate, and that was, 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:25.280 you know, kind of a lifeline, even though I don't 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.719 you know, she had to sort of take care of 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.919 us without his help or very little help. When I 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:37.960 was six, my mother decided that we would go and 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:41.240 live in Morocco. I think a lot of people were 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:45.440 going there and she thought, oh, my money will go 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.880 further there, we can have an interesting time. She was 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:54.800 interested in Soufiism and music and she was an amazing 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:58.599 person and very sound. Yeah, she was very courageous. So 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:00.360 we drove there. 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:04.479 We drove from from from Tunbridge Wells to Mary care 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:06.200 or did she have another partner. 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.080 There was this couple, this man and his wife. I 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.200 think anyway, she was sat in the back of this 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:18.599 van going crazy. Literally she didn't speak and he drove 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.359 and he was he was kind of really bad tempered 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.840 and stuff. I didn't really like. I was six when 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:31.360 we left, so she was four, and we drove and 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.120 the van kept breaking down. It was kind of. 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.640 She took you out of school age six. 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.240 Yeah, so I must have been at nursery so I'd 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:42.320 learned to read, so I had a few books and stuff, 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:46.080 and that was always a big thing for me. There 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:50.920 was a boat that you took and you landed in Morocco, 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.440 and I remember us throwing peach stones into the sea 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.280 and watching all these fish come and eat. 0:06:58.080 --> 0:06:58.839 All the fruit. 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:04.719 And then when we arrived there, we moved around a lot. 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.120 But the food was. 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:12.040 Interesting because in the square in Marrakesh there were these 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:18.080 these men who would sell little tin cups of spicy 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:23.840 broth with snails, and they were great. Threw you into 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:27.240 an advent. You must have been hungry. Yeah, what you 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.559 were eating, I mean not very many six year olds. 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.680 I know, they were really good. I mean that's there 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:39.200 wasn't much going, you know. I loved those snails. 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:40.520 But I love the food of Morocco. 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:42.960 But as a six year olds had come from London 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.040 in a car that Yeah. 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.160 I was talking to my sister esther before saying, do 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.000 you remember what we ate? You know, we didn't, and 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.840 then she remembered there used to be these stalls in 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:58.960 the main square and they sold this soup called bisara, 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.960 and it was most delicious thing. I just remember. It 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:08.080 was just incredible, this beige soup with a they'd pour 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.040 a tiny bit of olive oil and have a bit 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:14.080 of paprika, and it was it was just like it 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.440 was just like a kind of blood transfuture. It was, 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.000 and we loved it. 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.440 It ap probably was, you know, because Ramadan you don't 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.080 eat at all, and then you just see when the 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:29.080 sun sets everybody, you know, because you've been fasting all day, 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.760 and it is the soups, isn't it. Yeah. I have 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.360 a very strong association with being in Marrakesh and Morocco 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:36.040 and soups. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.760 Yeah, they were really good. And then there would be 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:44.520 this kind of European breakfast, so my mother would sit 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.480 in a cafe and maybe with some friends and they'd 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:53.319 have this milky coffee and then croissants, I think, and 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:58.240 it was very dreamy those moments. And then I remember 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.199 something that I got a gum infection where I couldn't 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:06.640 eat anything and it was so agonizing. They also used 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.520 to sell in the square these little bottles of yogurt, 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.920 and one was white and one was fluorescent pink, and 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:18.080 that was the only thing I could eat because if 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.800 I even tasted a tiny bit of sponge cake, it 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:24.360 was like broken glass. And did you go to a dentist? 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:25.160 I don't know. 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.800 I've spent a lot of time in Marrifsh, but they 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.160 used to have a dentists and square that you could 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.760 actually sit on a blanket too. 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:34.680 Bold or whatever. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:39.199 And then you know that the vine with the storytellers 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:40.920 and fortune tellers. 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.960 And I remember walking past sometimes and you'd see a 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:48.079 dentist place and there was no door and you'd just 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:52.440 hear people screaming. So I was quite keen to not go, 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.760 and I kind of developed a pain management where I 0:09:55.760 --> 0:10:01.320 would just I would just internalize and go silent. Yeah, 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:05.240 that sort of stayed my whole life, really, but I 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.160 and so I remember this moment where I had my 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.720 first bite of toast with marmalade, and it was just 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.840 my mother used to eat toast with marmalade at breakfast, 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:21.240 and it was just like it was the most It 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.640 was just like a king's meal, I remember, And I've 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.600 been obsessed with toasts and marmalade my whole life. And 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:30.720 then you know a lot of the some of the 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.640 time we didn't have any food, and I remember we 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:37.600 went encamped by this lake in the country and there 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.079 was we had no food, and then this fisherman gave 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.200 us some fish and cooking it over a fire. And 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.080 so there would be periods where we just didn't really 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:52.720 have things, but somehow we always got something in the end. 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:55.880 And do you think your mother did she herself not 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.560 care whether she ate or not, or do you think 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:02.280 she also wasn't aware or was she I think she 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:04.640 thought this would be okay, you know. 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.440 I think you know, it wasn't very often that that happened, 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:13.320 that we literally there wasn't anything, and I remember there 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.520 was a lot of worry about God, we really haven't 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.040 got a single thing to eat. And then suddenly it 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.800 was like Jesus and the fish, you know, this fisherman 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.360 and we had this huge meal and it was all 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.520 really exciting. And people were very very kind in Morocco 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:33.320 as well, and they were kind to us, you know. 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.600 Yeah, you know, the museum tells you about culture, and 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.200 architecture tells you about culture, but that is also the 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.679 way people respond to food and sharing. 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:47.160 And yeah, a generosity is to do I think. 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.560 With culture, I know, it really is sort of strange 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.720 how you remember those moments to do with people, you know. 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:57.679 I remember this one time that we were traveling and 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.480 we were we'd got a lift on a donkey cart 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.679 and it was starting to get dark. The only thing 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.160 we had was someone had given us these fresh eggs, 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:12.320 and so we made a fire and then we put 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.079 these hot stones in the fire and tried to fry 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.160 eggs on them, and it was really exciting. But then 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:22.319 the eggs just slithered off immediately, and then it was 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:24.400 kind of worrying. It was getting dark. And then the 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.800 man who dropped us off came back and said, come 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.880 to our house. And we went to his house and 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.880 they had this wonderful food and we sat in the 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.280 garden and then we stayed and we I remember we 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.840 rolled up in carpets. They gave us carpets, and we 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.800 slept outside in the orchard and it was it was incredible. 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.160 It was so long ago, and I'll never forget. 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.080 Yeah, yeah, can you smell the food. 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.240 There's a certain smell of Morocco that is like the 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.240 smell of sun touching the grass. 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:04.360 And this is a kind of nomadic life. That you heard. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:05.520 How long did it last? 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.120 I think we were there for two years. 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:08.640 Two years. 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.280 Yeah, your sister wrote a book. Yeah, she wrote it 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:15.480 Hideous Kinkyou they made a. 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:15.920 Film of it. 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.479 Yeah, they made a really good film. It was wonderful. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:25.520 And yeah, Esthera wrote her first novel called Hideous Kinky 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.880 because we would get sort of quite bored, and hideous 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.600 kinky were our favorite words, and we just used to 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:37.080 charm them. So the adults, these young people sort of 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.560 in their early twenties, would be sitting around in the 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:44.679 cafes and me and Esta would just be chanting hideous kinky, 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.960 hideous kinky, and then we'd go faster and faster and 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:49.559 then slower and just. 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.920 Was your father in touch at all? Did yeah? Send 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:54.720 us things? 0:13:54.840 --> 0:14:00.440 And I remember we'd get a care package. Sometimes I'd 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:05.120 go to the post office for like a couple of 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.640 weeks before it would arrive, and then there might be 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:09.559 a mass bow. I remember there was a bar of 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.760 chocolate that I just ate before I got home. I 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.439 felt rather guilty about that. 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.960 Imagine a state bottled olive oil, chosen and bottled for 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.880 the River Cafe, arriving at your door every month. Our 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.880 subscription is available for six or twelve months, with each 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.440 oil chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.800 each delivery. It's a perfect way to bring some River 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.080 Cafe flavor into your home or to show someone you 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.600 really care for them with the gift. Visit our website 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:50.760 shop the Rivercafe dot co uk to place your order. Now, 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:55.400 when did you come home? 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:59.800 So? Then we came home in nineteen sixty nine and 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:04.000 we moved to Sussex, and Mum wanted us to go 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:09.120 to this Stiner school. I became obsessed with food, and 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.440 I would my friends would have all these cute lunches 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:18.720 and in like sandwiches and like special things. One girl 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:23.400 had tinned fruit in a little container, and I used 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.920 to just stare at them like a dog, and just 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.440 stare like and the first until they gave me some 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.000 of their food. And then I'd go and visit them, 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:34.440 and the first thing I'd say is. 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:39.840 Got any food? And then I would just eat anything. 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.680 Everything I could get. I would just and then I'd 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.960 have started having these terrible stomach aches. I'd lie under 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:51.360 the table just like me some pudding, so I'd be 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:55.160 in terrible pain, but I didn't want to miss any food, 0:15:55.880 --> 0:16:00.280 but my mother would. I was talking to I was 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.560 remembering with esta the things that she made, and she 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:09.840 used to make these tuna fish souflet, which sounds awful, 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.040 but it was so good, sort of creamy. 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:18.560 It was tasty. And my mother was perfectly sort of 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.960 adequate cook, but things didn't taste much like. She was 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:26.520 interested in health food, you know, beans that took like 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:27.280 a week. 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.160 To silk them. 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:32.560 And then Yea was Lucy in a success. It was 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.040 he the recognized painter at that time. 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.800 That not really, I mean he there was very very 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:45.040 little anything, and it wasn't really until much later that 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:49.360 he became suddenly more known. And he was extremely private. 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.320 So we had these two years of moving and then 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.560 we moved in to this quite nice house and shared 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:02.960 where we were the lodge of this family, a father 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.160 with three daughters who then my mother and he started 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:10.200 a relationship and I really didn't like him. I got 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.080 on really badly with him, but he was a very 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.840 good cook. And we had this kind of nice place, 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.560 you know, we had our own rooms and it knew 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.320 about what age, so I was eleven. Yeah, they had 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:28.919 an arga and they had this argur cookbook, and I 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.439 started cooking and making things, and he would make really 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:37.320 delicious food and lasagna we'd never had lazagne, you know, 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:43.000 and hornbread, and so I got interested in other things, 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:47.119 and I learned how to cook stuff as well, and 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:51.240 I learned about taste and how much that mattered more 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:56.840 than anything, really, the sort of difference in food with 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.600 my mother, and then going to my father's I remember 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.600 he was very keen on oysters. When I was fourteen, 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.480 he took me to Wheelers and I thought, well, I'd 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.160 better have these oysters, and I hope I like them, 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:15.160 because if I don't like the oysters, maybe he will 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:20.560 be really disappointed in me. And then I loved the oysters, 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:22.359 and I was so happy. 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.720 If you had snails and rocco, yeah, oysters, and you 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.040 were starting to cook, then food must have been a 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:33.600 part of your curiosity about life. Yeah, what, you were 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.800 ready to go on that adventure when you finished school? 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:37.800 Did you finish school? 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.159 No? I didn't. I left home when I was sixteen 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.760 and I moved to London and I shared a My 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:50.320 dad got me a flat that I shared with my 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:54.720 half sister Rose. I went to do my A levels 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.639 but I only I just dropped out and then I 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.320 started sitting for dads and that was the order in 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:07.480 my life. So everything revolved around that, and even though 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:12.360 my life was very chaotic and unmanageable, I would always 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:15.560 be there for him. He was thank God, you know 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.600 he It was like this reason I had to be, 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:23.800 you know, have some semblance of order and keep going 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.000 and not drop off the face of the earth in 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:27.400 a way. 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:32.360 You began working in fashion. Was it when you started 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.640 thinking that clothes mattered? 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:35.600 Do you think the. 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:44.240 Earlier? I remember as a child thinking how much clothes mattered, 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:49.479 because people really sort of noticed you if you weren't 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:54.280 wearing normal clothes. And my mother, she dressed in a 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:58.720 sort of hippie where she was incredibly beautiful, but we 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:03.520 were looked down, and so I was conscious that we 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:09.520 were different and people like noticed us in a way 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.920 that sometimes just exhausting. And so I was aware that 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:19.200 certain clothes made me feel really great, Like what I'm 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.120 wearing today, this shirt tie and of v neck jumper. 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:25.639 That's really what I wanted. And we didn't have a 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:30.280 school uniform, so I longed for this order. I didn't 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.240 mind being turbulent within but I wanted some sort of 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:39.040 encasement so I didn't feel like I was going to well. 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.000 Fashion as a shield itself. Yeah, it's a shield, it 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.520 can be. I mean, it is a bit like food, 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:49.840 and there is a relationship of how you identify yourself. 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:52.360 You know, we all need to wear clothes to keep 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:54.359 us warm, and we all need to eat to keep 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:57.760 us healthy. And yes, choices though involve a lot of 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:00.800 other decisions, because you can who you. 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:02.280 Want to be exactly. 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.680 Because I started to notice that if I had clothes 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:10.680 on that I liked, I could feel much less self conscious. 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:14.520 I always remember this moment. I had this scoop neck 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:18.040 top on. I must have been eleven or ten the 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:23.159 mom had made with balloon sleeves, and I looked in 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.479 the mirror and thought, I really don't like this. I 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.240 want to shut up with a collar. And I'd go 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:34.439 to jumble cells and buy boys clothes and wear those. 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:38.320 And I really liked to be contained to feel safe. 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:39.040 Yeah. 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.000 Well, as a designer, it's like you have someone's back. 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:46.560 Literally you're dressing them when you're protecting them with your clothes, 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:50.480 and you're imbuing them with all everything to bring out 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:52.200 their best qualities and. 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:53.920 Sort of care for them. 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.879 And then I would always notice the difference, especially like 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.360 with my father. He would when here working, sometimes we'd 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.960 go out and he'd just be in his painting clothes 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.880 and taxis wouldn't stop because they think he was a tramp. 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:13.120 And then he would if we went somewhere like Annabel's, 0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:16.639 he'd put on a Huntsman suit and it was just 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:20.240 you know, Cinderellas, we'll go to the wall, you know. 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:26.280 He he looked so good, and he looked I loved 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:27.000 the change. 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:29.199 And so I've always been interested in that sort of 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:33.040 thing where you have one piece, like you have walking 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:37.640 down Portobello and the guys who'd have shops down there 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:41.680 or just hanging out in track suits with a tailored jacket, 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:44.240 and they just look so cool. And I love this 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:48.520 thing that a tailored jacket could give you this magic, 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:52.439 this fairy dust sprinkle. And I've always been kind of 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:57.439 obsessed with suits and uniforms, like how bus conductors dress 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:03.239 and used to dress information a uniform. When did you 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:05.439 actually start to brand? 0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:11.720 Yeah, so I started in nineteen ninety and I started 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:15.399 working from home, and because I didn't really have money 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:16.679 to pay anyone much. 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:19.960 We would have lunch in the kitchen every day and 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:22.960 someone would cook. Sometimes I'd cook, because when I was 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:26.560 working for Vivian Westward, and I'd been living in Italy 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:29.920 before then and I moved back to London started working 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:32.320 for her, and I'd cook her lunch. 0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:34.200 Do you know her? Had you know her before? 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:37.320 I worked in her shop when I was a teen. 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:39.760 About Vivian Westward, so that we know who. 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:46.119 So, Vivian Westwood was an incredibly influential avant garde designer. 0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:51.040 She was very much the designer of punk. She created 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:55.000