1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You were listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair. 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: Whenever I'm with Bella Freud, which isn't often enough, I 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: always wish I could see more of her. She's in 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: fashion and I'm in food. A meal is a moment, 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: and an outfit changes daily. Right now, I'm wearing Bella's 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: iconic nineteen seventy sweater. A few years ago she created 7 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: an Nemesis sweater for the River Cafe, and one of 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: my most treasured possessions is a Bella sweater, saying Bella, this, 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: Bella that. In our early years, Bella's father, Lucien Freud, 10 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: came almost every day to the River Cafe. When with Bella, 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: we were told never to interrupt, as this was their 12 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: precious time. Now, when Bella comes with her friends. 13 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: I always wish I could whisk her. 14 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: Away and have her all to myself. Today, on Table four, 15 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: I finally am. 16 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 2: Thank you, Ruthie. It's so nice to have you here. 17 00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: And it is true you did come with your dad. 18 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, and sometimes he do risk me away when I'm 19 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 3: here and I don't know. I love it. You beckon 20 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 3: to me and say come here, and then we stand 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 3: behind a corner. Are they talking? 22 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 2: What are they doing? In this world? 23 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: We have to talk or just talk about each other. 24 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: What are your memories of your dad coming here? 25 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 3: I remember we came here when it first started. We 26 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 3: jump in the car, and then he drove very fast, 27 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 3: terribly terrifyingly. I'm very good at kind of masquerading a calmness, 28 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 3: and some of it's learnt from sitting next to him 29 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 3: while he drove in this petrifying way. He'd drive very 30 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 3: fast towards something and then swerve suddenly, so then we'd 31 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 3: arrive and. 32 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 2: Lived another moment. Great food. 33 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 3: And I remember he also used to come here with Lee. 34 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 3: Barry and Lee used to learn all about food from 35 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 3: eating out with Dad and coming here. And I always 36 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 3: remember this moment him saying, yes, the poach pears are 37 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: very good. It was so lovely. 38 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: I remember one day he came and we had a 39 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: sign on the door because we were painting the restaurant. 40 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: We closed for lunch. We only opened for lunch, and 41 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: I said, listen, I'm really really sorry that you know 42 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: we're closed today, but I'll cook you something and he said, 43 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: I have a better idea. I'm going to take you 44 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: out to lunch, and yeah, he took me to Kensington 45 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: Place and we had lunch. He was just fantastic, you know, 46 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: spontaneous and kind and just caring and talking to me 47 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: and asking me about me, you know, and it was 48 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: very It was one of the great moments in my life. 49 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was fun. 50 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 3: He was such a good company and he made you 51 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 3: feel so special. 52 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: I used to come in those trousers with Peter all 53 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: over them, and you know, he was great. 54 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 3: It was exciting. 55 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: It's very interesting you were saying that a lot of 56 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: your experience of eating with him was in restaurants. 57 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 3: I remember going because I lived in the country and 58 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 3: i'd camp to London and all my sort of encounters 59 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 3: with him as I got to know him when I 60 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 3: was little were we used to go to marine IC's 61 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 3: when I was very small, and then he would take 62 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 3: us to this Greek restaurant in notting Hill. But it 63 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 3: was always a meeting to do with being in a 64 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 3: restaurant and the food. I would be quite nervous, so 65 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 3: the food was probably secondary, but that was the context. 66 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 3: And then you know, when i'd sit for him. When 67 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: I moved to London when I was sixteen, we'd work 68 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 3: and have this break and zoom out, go somewhere very 69 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 3: fast and come back. But then sometimes he would cook, 70 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 3: and he was a very good cook, and it was 71 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 3: very different from how my mother cooked. It was well, 72 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 3: I mean, we just didn't have very much food. And 73 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 3: when you asked me to be on this podcast, I 74 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 3: was like, oh my god, I didn't. In the sixties 75 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 3: and seventies, there wasn't much food around, and then my 76 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 3: mother she didn't have There was no food abundance. And 77 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 3: my overriding memory was the food we did have took 78 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 3: about a day or two, like it was lentils, it 79 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 3: was hippie food. There were no snacks, there was no 80 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 3: nothing to eat, and I was hungry quite a lot 81 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 3: of the time. So I have a kind of strange 82 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 3: attitude to I think. So let's go about your mum 83 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 3: in the sixties. 84 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: She would have been hold. 85 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 3: She was eighteen when I was born, so very young, 86 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 3: and she wasn't married and her parents didn't even know 87 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 3: she had children until me and my sister esther were 88 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 3: about I think I was four, and someone saw us 89 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 3: walking down the street and told her parents, who lived 90 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 3: in Ireland, and so it was very you know, she 91 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 3: had a that's tough, yeah, having to be have two children. 92 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 2: But your father was an art involved it was. 93 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 3: They lit up when I was two, and he wasn't 94 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 3: at all hands on or she made an effort to 95 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 3: make sure that we saw him. And he was always 96 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 3: very responsive as a father and very affectionate, and that was, 97 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 3: you know, kind of a lifeline, even though I don't 98 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 3: you know, she had to sort of take care of 99 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 3: us without his help or very little help. When I 100 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 3: was six, my mother decided that we would go and 101 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 3: live in Morocco. I think a lot of people were 102 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 3: going there and she thought, oh, my money will go 103 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 3: further there, we can have an interesting time. She was 104 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 3: interested in Soufiism and music and she was an amazing 105 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 3: person and very sound. Yeah, she was very courageous. So 106 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 3: we drove there. 107 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: We drove from from from Tunbridge Wells to Mary care 108 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: or did she have another partner. 109 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 3: There was this couple, this man and his wife. I 110 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 3: think anyway, she was sat in the back of this 111 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 3: van going crazy. Literally she didn't speak and he drove 112 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 3: and he was he was kind of really bad tempered 113 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 3: and stuff. I didn't really like. I was six when 114 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 3: we left, so she was four, and we drove and 115 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 3: the van kept breaking down. It was kind of. 116 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: She took you out of school age six. 117 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I must have been at nursery so I'd 118 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 3: learned to read, so I had a few books and stuff, 119 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 3: and that was always a big thing for me. There 120 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 3: was a boat that you took and you landed in Morocco, 121 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 3: and I remember us throwing peach stones into the sea 122 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 3: and watching all these fish come and eat. 123 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 2: All the fruit. 124 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: And then when we arrived there, we moved around a lot. 125 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 3: But the food was. 126 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: Interesting because in the square in Marrakesh there were these 127 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: these men who would sell little tin cups of spicy 128 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: broth with snails, and they were great. Threw you into 129 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: an advent. You must have been hungry. Yeah, what you 130 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,559 Speaker 1: were eating, I mean not very many six year olds. 131 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 3: I know, they were really good. I mean that's there 132 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 3: wasn't much going, you know. I loved those snails. 133 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 2: But I love the food of Morocco. 134 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: But as a six year olds had come from London 135 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: in a car that Yeah. 136 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 3: I was talking to my sister esther before saying, do 137 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 3: you remember what we ate? You know, we didn't, and 138 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 3: then she remembered there used to be these stalls in 139 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 3: the main square and they sold this soup called bisara, 140 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: and it was most delicious thing. I just remember. It 141 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 3: was just incredible, this beige soup with a they'd pour 142 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 3: a tiny bit of olive oil and have a bit 143 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 3: of paprika, and it was it was just like it 144 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 3: was just like a kind of blood transfuture. It was, 145 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 3: and we loved it. 146 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: It ap probably was, you know, because Ramadan you don't 147 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: eat at all, and then you just see when the 148 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: sun sets everybody, you know, because you've been fasting all day, 149 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: and it is the soups, isn't it. Yeah. I have 150 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: a very strong association with being in Marrakesh and Morocco 151 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: and soups. 152 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, they were really good. And then there would be 153 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 3: this kind of European breakfast, so my mother would sit 154 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 3: in a cafe and maybe with some friends and they'd 155 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 3: have this milky coffee and then croissants, I think, and 156 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 3: it was very dreamy those moments. And then I remember 157 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 3: something that I got a gum infection where I couldn't 158 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 3: eat anything and it was so agonizing. They also used 159 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 3: to sell in the square these little bottles of yogurt, 160 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 3: and one was white and one was fluorescent pink, and 161 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 3: that was the only thing I could eat because if 162 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 3: I even tasted a tiny bit of sponge cake, it 163 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 3: was like broken glass. And did you go to a dentist? 164 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 3: I don't know. 165 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of time in Marrifsh, but they 166 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: used to have a dentists and square that you could 167 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: actually sit on a blanket too. 168 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 2: Bold or whatever. 169 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 1: And then you know that the vine with the storytellers 170 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: and fortune tellers. 171 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 3: And I remember walking past sometimes and you'd see a 172 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 3: dentist place and there was no door and you'd just 173 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 3: hear people screaming. So I was quite keen to not go, 174 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 3: and I kind of developed a pain management where I 175 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 3: would just I would just internalize and go silent. Yeah, 176 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 3: that sort of stayed my whole life, really, but I 177 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 3: and so I remember this moment where I had my 178 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 3: first bite of toast with marmalade, and it was just 179 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 3: my mother used to eat toast with marmalade at breakfast, 180 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 3: and it was just like it was the most It 181 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 3: was just like a king's meal, I remember, And I've 182 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 3: been obsessed with toasts and marmalade my whole life. And 183 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 3: then you know a lot of the some of the 184 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 3: time we didn't have any food, and I remember we 185 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 3: went encamped by this lake in the country and there 186 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 3: was we had no food, and then this fisherman gave 187 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 3: us some fish and cooking it over a fire. And 188 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 3: so there would be periods where we just didn't really 189 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 3: have things, but somehow we always got something in the end. 190 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: And do you think your mother did she herself not 191 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: care whether she ate or not, or do you think 192 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: she also wasn't aware or was she I think she 193 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: thought this would be okay, you know. 194 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 3: I think you know, it wasn't very often that that happened, 195 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 3: that we literally there wasn't anything, and I remember there 196 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 3: was a lot of worry about God, we really haven't 197 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 3: got a single thing to eat. And then suddenly it 198 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 3: was like Jesus and the fish, you know, this fisherman 199 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 3: and we had this huge meal and it was all 200 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 3: really exciting. And people were very very kind in Morocco 201 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 3: as well, and they were kind to us, you know. 202 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, the museum tells you about culture, and 203 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: architecture tells you about culture, but that is also the 204 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: way people respond to food and sharing. 205 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: And yeah, a generosity is to do I think. 206 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 3: With culture, I know, it really is sort of strange 207 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 3: how you remember those moments to do with people, you know. 208 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 3: I remember this one time that we were traveling and 209 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 3: we were we'd got a lift on a donkey cart 210 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 3: and it was starting to get dark. The only thing 211 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 3: we had was someone had given us these fresh eggs, 212 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 3: and so we made a fire and then we put 213 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 3: these hot stones in the fire and tried to fry 214 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 3: eggs on them, and it was really exciting. But then 215 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 3: the eggs just slithered off immediately, and then it was 216 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 3: kind of worrying. It was getting dark. And then the 217 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 3: man who dropped us off came back and said, come 218 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 3: to our house. And we went to his house and 219 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 3: they had this wonderful food and we sat in the 220 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 3: garden and then we stayed and we I remember we 221 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 3: rolled up in carpets. They gave us carpets, and we 222 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 3: slept outside in the orchard and it was it was incredible. 223 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 3: It was so long ago, and I'll never forget. 224 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, can you smell the food. 225 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 3: There's a certain smell of Morocco that is like the 226 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 3: smell of sun touching the grass. 227 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 2: And this is a kind of nomadic life. That you heard. 228 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 2: How long did it last? 229 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 3: I think we were there for two years. 230 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: Two years. 231 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, your sister wrote a book. Yeah, she wrote it 232 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: Hideous Kinkyou they made a. 233 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: Film of it. 234 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, they made a really good film. It was wonderful. 235 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 3: And yeah, Esthera wrote her first novel called Hideous Kinky 236 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 3: because we would get sort of quite bored, and hideous 237 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 3: kinky were our favorite words, and we just used to 238 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 3: charm them. So the adults, these young people sort of 239 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 3: in their early twenties, would be sitting around in the 240 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 3: cafes and me and Esta would just be chanting hideous kinky, 241 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 3: hideous kinky, and then we'd go faster and faster and 242 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 3: then slower and just. 243 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 2: Was your father in touch at all? Did yeah? Send 244 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 2: us things? 245 00:13:54,840 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 3: And I remember we'd get a care package. Sometimes I'd 246 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 3: go to the post office for like a couple of 247 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 3: weeks before it would arrive, and then there might be 248 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 3: a mass bow. I remember there was a bar of 249 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 3: chocolate that I just ate before I got home. I 250 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 3: felt rather guilty about that. 251 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: Imagine a state bottled olive oil, chosen and bottled for 252 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: the River Cafe, arriving at your door every month. Our 253 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: subscription is available for six or twelve months, with each 254 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: oil chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with 255 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: each delivery. It's a perfect way to bring some River 256 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: Cafe flavor into your home or to show someone you 257 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: really care for them with the gift. Visit our website 258 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: shop the Rivercafe dot co uk to place your order. Now, 259 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: when did you come home? 260 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 3: So? Then we came home in nineteen sixty nine and 261 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 3: we moved to Sussex, and Mum wanted us to go 262 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 3: to this Stiner school. I became obsessed with food, and 263 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 3: I would my friends would have all these cute lunches 264 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 3: and in like sandwiches and like special things. One girl 265 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 3: had tinned fruit in a little container, and I used 266 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 3: to just stare at them like a dog, and just 267 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 3: stare like and the first until they gave me some 268 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 3: of their food. And then I'd go and visit them, 269 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 3: and the first thing I'd say is. 270 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: Got any food? And then I would just eat anything. 271 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: Everything I could get. I would just and then I'd 272 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: have started having these terrible stomach aches. I'd lie under 273 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: the table just like me some pudding, so I'd be 274 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: in terrible pain, but I didn't want to miss any food, 275 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: but my mother would. I was talking to I was 276 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: remembering with esta the things that she made, and she 277 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: used to make these tuna fish souflet, which sounds awful, 278 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: but it was so good, sort of creamy. 279 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 3: It was tasty. And my mother was perfectly sort of 280 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 3: adequate cook, but things didn't taste much like. She was 281 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 3: interested in health food, you know, beans that took like 282 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 3: a week. 283 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: To silk them. 284 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: And then Yea was Lucy in a success. It was 285 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: he the recognized painter at that time. 286 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 3: That not really, I mean he there was very very 287 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 3: little anything, and it wasn't really until much later that 288 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 3: he became suddenly more known. And he was extremely private. 289 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 3: So we had these two years of moving and then 290 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 3: we moved in to this quite nice house and shared 291 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 3: where we were the lodge of this family, a father 292 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 3: with three daughters who then my mother and he started 293 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 3: a relationship and I really didn't like him. I got 294 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 3: on really badly with him, but he was a very 295 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 3: good cook. And we had this kind of nice place, 296 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 3: you know, we had our own rooms and it knew 297 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 3: about what age, so I was eleven. Yeah, they had 298 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 3: an arga and they had this argur cookbook, and I 299 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 3: started cooking and making things, and he would make really 300 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 3: delicious food and lasagna we'd never had lazagne, you know, 301 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 3: and hornbread, and so I got interested in other things, 302 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 3: and I learned how to cook stuff as well, and 303 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 3: I learned about taste and how much that mattered more 304 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 3: than anything, really, the sort of difference in food with 305 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 3: my mother, and then going to my father's I remember 306 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 3: he was very keen on oysters. When I was fourteen, 307 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 3: he took me to Wheelers and I thought, well, I'd 308 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 3: better have these oysters, and I hope I like them, 309 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 3: because if I don't like the oysters, maybe he will 310 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 3: be really disappointed in me. And then I loved the oysters, 311 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 3: and I was so happy. 312 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: If you had snails and rocco, yeah, oysters, and you 313 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: were starting to cook, then food must have been a 314 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: part of your curiosity about life. Yeah, what, you were 315 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: ready to go on that adventure when you finished school? 316 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 2: Did you finish school? 317 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 3: No? I didn't. I left home when I was sixteen 318 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 3: and I moved to London and I shared a My 319 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 3: dad got me a flat that I shared with my 320 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 3: half sister Rose. I went to do my A levels 321 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 3: but I only I just dropped out and then I 322 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 3: started sitting for dads and that was the order in 323 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 3: my life. So everything revolved around that, and even though 324 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 3: my life was very chaotic and unmanageable, I would always 325 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 3: be there for him. He was thank God, you know 326 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 3: he It was like this reason I had to be, 327 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 3: you know, have some semblance of order and keep going 328 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 3: and not drop off the face of the earth in 329 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 3: a way. 330 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: You began working in fashion. Was it when you started 331 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: thinking that clothes mattered? 332 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 2: Do you think the. 333 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 3: Earlier? I remember as a child thinking how much clothes mattered, 334 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,479 Speaker 3: because people really sort of noticed you if you weren't 335 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 3: wearing normal clothes. And my mother, she dressed in a 336 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 3: sort of hippie where she was incredibly beautiful, but we 337 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 3: were looked down, and so I was conscious that we 338 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 3: were different and people like noticed us in a way 339 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 3: that sometimes just exhausting. And so I was aware that 340 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 3: certain clothes made me feel really great, Like what I'm 341 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 3: wearing today, this shirt tie and of v neck jumper. 342 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 3: That's really what I wanted. And we didn't have a 343 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 3: school uniform, so I longed for this order. I didn't 344 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 3: mind being turbulent within but I wanted some sort of 345 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 3: encasement so I didn't feel like I was going to well. 346 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: Fashion as a shield itself. Yeah, it's a shield, it 347 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: can be. I mean, it is a bit like food, 348 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: and there is a relationship of how you identify yourself. 349 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 1: You know, we all need to wear clothes to keep 350 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: us warm, and we all need to eat to keep 351 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: us healthy. And yes, choices though involve a lot of 352 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: other decisions, because you can who you. 353 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: Want to be exactly. 354 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 3: Because I started to notice that if I had clothes 355 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 3: on that I liked, I could feel much less self conscious. 356 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 3: I always remember this moment. I had this scoop neck 357 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 3: top on. I must have been eleven or ten the 358 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 3: mom had made with balloon sleeves, and I looked in 359 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,479 Speaker 3: the mirror and thought, I really don't like this. I 360 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 3: want to shut up with a collar. And I'd go 361 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 3: to jumble cells and buy boys clothes and wear those. 362 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: And I really liked to be contained to feel safe. 363 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 364 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 3: Well, as a designer, it's like you have someone's back. 365 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 3: Literally you're dressing them when you're protecting them with your clothes, 366 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 3: and you're imbuing them with all everything to bring out 367 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 3: their best qualities and. 368 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 2: Sort of care for them. 369 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 3: And then I would always notice the difference, especially like 370 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 3: with my father. He would when here working, sometimes we'd 371 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 3: go out and he'd just be in his painting clothes 372 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 3: and taxis wouldn't stop because they think he was a tramp. 373 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 3: And then he would if we went somewhere like Annabel's, 374 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 3: he'd put on a Huntsman suit and it was just 375 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 3: you know, Cinderellas, we'll go to the wall, you know. 376 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: He he looked so good, and he looked I loved 377 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: the change. 378 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 3: And so I've always been interested in that sort of 379 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 3: thing where you have one piece, like you have walking 380 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 3: down Portobello and the guys who'd have shops down there 381 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 3: or just hanging out in track suits with a tailored jacket, 382 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 3: and they just look so cool. And I love this 383 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 3: thing that a tailored jacket could give you this magic, 384 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 3: this fairy dust sprinkle. And I've always been kind of 385 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 3: obsessed with suits and uniforms, like how bus conductors dress 386 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:03,239 Speaker 3: and used to dress information a uniform. When did you 387 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 3: actually start to brand? 388 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I started in nineteen ninety and I started 389 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: working from home, and because I didn't really have money 390 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: to pay anyone much. 391 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 3: We would have lunch in the kitchen every day and 392 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 3: someone would cook. Sometimes I'd cook, because when I was 393 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 3: working for Vivian Westward, and I'd been living in Italy 394 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 3: before then and I moved back to London started working 395 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 3: for her, and I'd cook her lunch. 396 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 2: Do you know her? Had you know her before? 397 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 3: I worked in her shop when I was a teen. 398 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 2: About Vivian Westward, so that we know who. 399 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 3: So, Vivian Westwood was an incredibly influential avant garde designer. 400 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 3: She was very much the designer of punk. She created 401 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 3: fashion from punk and designed things that people had never 402 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 3: seen before. And she had a shop in King's Road 403 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 3: and with her her partner Malcolm McLaren, who was the 404 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 3: manager of the Sex Pistoles, and she designed all the 405 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 3: clothes they wore, and they had these amazing clothes and 406 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 3: it was the first time I had experienced any sort 407 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 3: of agency as a person through wearing these clothes that 408 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 3: she designed. And suddenly people were like slightly intimidated and 409 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 3: it was really exciting. 410 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 2: And what did you do with her? 411 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 3: So I, first of all, I worked in her shop 412 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 3: when I was seventeen, and when I lived in Italy. 413 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 3: She was also working in Italy and she would come 414 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 3: stay with me in Rome sometimes and we became friends. 415 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 3: And then when I left Rome, i was studying fashion there. 416 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 3: I came back to London and then I worked as 417 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 3: her assistant and at that time we just worked from her. 418 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: She teach you that she taught you that you and 419 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: her fashion is. Does it still influence you. It's different, 420 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 1: it's very different. But what she taught me was to 421 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: go beyond yourself whenever you possibly can, never give up really, 422 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: and it's that's what I learned from watching my father 423 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: work as well. If something goes wrong, you can't let 424 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: that stop. You have to work through something. 425 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 3: When I work for Vivian, I learned everything I did, 426 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 3: all the different jobs, so production press, sort of working 427 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 3: on ideas and. 428 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: What is the skill of being a fashion designed that 429 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 1: you have to We have chefs that have never been 430 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: to cooking school and we teach them life skills they learn. 431 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: You know, I was never taught Rose, my partner was 432 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: never taught. And I look in one on some of 433 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: the young people with their what they can do and 434 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: sometimes what they can't, and how when we have a 435 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: skill as a profession then you hell. 436 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 3: Because Vivian she was self to and I think that 437 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 3: the real skill of a designer, the sort of kitchen 438 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 3: as it were, is to fit. Because Vivian didn't learn 439 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 3: how to make patterns, but she would make something work 440 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 3: through instinct and fitting and you know, I know what 441 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 3: to pull up the suppression where it will result in 442 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 3: the change of how it fits on a body. And 443 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 3: I think that's the most important thing. That you can 444 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 3: shape something literally and then it doesn't really matter what 445 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 3: it's made of or but if you have that kind 446 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:47,719 Speaker 3: of recognizable way of editing something, people are drawn to that. 447 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 3: And then I sometimes it's so circumstantial because when I 448 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 3: was living in Rome, I met this woman who had 449 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 3: a knitting machine in her flat in a tower block. 450 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 3: So I used to go and visit her and started 451 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 3: designing knitwear just because that was something. And then I 452 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 3: was always interested in record covers and what people water 453 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 3: on protest marches, this kind of how one thing could 454 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 3: mean so much and say so much, and language was 455 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 3: always really important. I think as being a girl, you 456 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 3: don't have physical power, so you have to use your words. 457 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 3: And I was very keen to express my contempt for 458 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 3: a lot of things, and I honed it as much 459 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 3: as I could. 460 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 1: The River Cafe Winter Said Lunch is now running from 461 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: Monday to Thursday. Reserve a booking at www. River cafet 462 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: co uk or give us a call. Would you like 463 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: to read the recipe for sea bass? Do you want 464 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: to tell me why you chose this recipe? But I 465 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: quite often cook dinner for myself just me. I sort 466 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: of prefer cooking just for myself. And it's sea bass 467 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: over potatoes, and I sort of mess about with it 468 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: a bit, but essentially feel free filets of sea bass, 469 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: cherry tomatoes, and I do as you say in the 470 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: recipe and squeeze out the juice, and then five hundred 471 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: grams of potatoes, some ba leaves and a lemon, and 472 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: then sometimes I put some olives in as well. 473 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 3: So I love the. 474 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: Thing that you say to do, which is bring the 475 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: potatoes to the boil till they're almost perfectly cooked but 476 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: not quite, and then slice them in thick slices, and 477 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: then drizzle a roasting. 478 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 3: Tray with olive oil and cover the sliced potatoes and 479 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 3: tomato halves, and put the bas leaves on top. And 480 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 3: sometimes I put rosemary, because I love rosemary. Put the 481 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 3: sea bass filets on top and drizzle with olive oil 482 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 3: and roast for six minutes, and then pull it out 483 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 3: and put the lemon juice over and roast for another 484 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,239 Speaker 3: six minutes. If there's some white wine, I'll put some 485 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 3: of that on. I mean, what I love about this 486 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 3: recipe is that it's there aren't too many ingredients, because 487 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 3: if I see too many, I just panic and then 488 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 3: I think, oh, I'll just have some toast. But this 489 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 3: is wonderful and it's nurtured me many a time. 490 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: When you started out in the introduction about talking about 491 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: your podcast, well. 492 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 3: It's call fashion Neurosis, and my guest like, in a way, 493 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 3: the way you talk about food, and it's a kind 494 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 3: of clue to someone's internal life. Fashion neurosis is someone's 495 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 3: clothing is their clue. It's the gateway. And some people 496 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 3: we talk a lot about clothes, and some people we 497 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 3: talk hardly at all. But also I've always been interested 498 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 3: in the stories in the fashion world that people never 499 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 3: hear about. I think it's very badly seen or it's 500 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 3: not really seen at all in the media. It's always 501 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 3: a certain way camp bitchy competitive, fairly facile, whereas the 502 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 3: people I've met in the fashion world are so resourceful 503 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 3: and remarkable, and there's a lot of real friendship and 504 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 3: you know, looking out for each other. It's so difficult 505 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 3: being criticized in the way that the cycle of fashion 506 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 3: sort of is just normal to do that. So my 507 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 3: guest lies on the couch, well, I thought, well, when 508 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 3: I was first figuring out how it would look, I 509 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 3: thought I need a prop and then I thought, Okay, 510 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 3: if they lie on the couch and I sit in 511 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 3: this chair, everyone will know it's this and then I 512 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 3: can have a kind of cheeky nod to Sigmund Freud, 513 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 3: who's my great grandfather, kind of tongue in cheek. 514 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: Well, food and fashion there are very interesting parallels, just 515 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: saying it gives you a sense of adventure what you're wearing, 516 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: it gives you a sense of safety, and it gives 517 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: you a sense very often of comfort. Yeah, if you 518 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: do seek food for comfort, is there something you would 519 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: go for? 520 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 3: I've got two things. One is, when I'm really tired, 521 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 3: I often crave something very salty and very hot. And 522 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 3: not that I get this almost ever, but I crave 523 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 3: boiling hot consumme and caviat because I feel like it 524 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 3: will charge me up. But then when I think about 525 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 3: what is real emotional comfort, it's bread and cheese, and 526 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 3: it's still well. In an ideal world, I'd have bread 527 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 3: with some fruit in like you know that kind of 528 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 3: French bread, that heavy bread, slightly toasted, and then some 529 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 3: slices of something like manchego that just starts to soften 530 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 3: on it. And then I can feel my whole nervous 531 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 3: system relaxing at the thought of that. I don't eat 532 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 3: that very often because it doesn't particularly agree with me, 533 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 3: but that I feel my whole body melting at the 534 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 3: thought of bread and cheese. And in my childhood, bread 535 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 3: and cheese was just so wonderful. 536 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 2: It was just great. 537 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 3: And Mum used to make cheese on toast for breakfast 538 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 3: sometimes and it just made our family feel complete. It 539 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 3: was a really important thing. 540 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: Let's go have some bread and cheese in the river, 541 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: pasta and cheese or soothed and cheese. 542 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you 543 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: Rudy, Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four in 544 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: partnership with Montclair