Speaker 1: The following. He's a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. Let's go. Are you
Speaker 1: ready for a break? Yes? Are you ready for a break? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Ready for a break? Yeah, And so much for that.
Speaker 1: It's time for The Break on Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: with Nick Eatman, David Hellman, a Bar Garcia, and Derek
Speaker 1: Eagleton this Wednesday, April fourteenth, twenty twenty one, Season sixteen,
Speaker 1: episode number one oh five. Welcome to latest edition of
Speaker 1: The Break. We're presented by Geico, and we were live
Speaker 1: from the s WBC Mortgage studios at the Star and
Speaker 1: got my crew here whipping Nick Eatman and we've got
Speaker 1: Amber Garcia. Day's night in today, but we'll try to
Speaker 1: make it work. We got a lot to talk about today.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get into a lot of different topics. We're
Speaker 1: gonna start first talking about some of the offseason training.
Speaker 1: There's been a lot going on around the NFL with
Speaker 1: regards to this topic. We've seen a lot over the
Speaker 1: last couple of days with regards to some of the
Speaker 1: teams and how they plan to handle offseason training. We'll
Speaker 1: get these, we'll get these ideas or we get ideas
Speaker 1: from this group with regards how we think that will
Speaker 1: affect the Cowboys, and then we're gonna talk draft. I've
Speaker 1: always heard it said from people who work in football
Speaker 1: that you really can't judge a draft until you're at
Speaker 1: least three four years into the players playing. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna go back to the twenty sixteen draft, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna go all the way from there to last year's draft,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna walk through those players and see what
Speaker 1: you guys think about how good of a pick they
Speaker 1: ended up being for the Cowboys. I see that look
Speaker 1: on your face and where you're locked and loaded, ready
Speaker 1: to go. Got a lot of opinions to give us. Well,
Speaker 1: you know what it's like. We always talk about how
Speaker 1: Will McClay. He's great. I think his staff is great,
Speaker 1: and the job he's been doing here with the Cowboys
Speaker 1: is amazing. But just in general, when I know you
Speaker 1: sent us the list of these guys and looking at it,
Speaker 1: usually I've always had like a higher viewed on every
Speaker 1: draft pick, and I know we're about we're gonna get
Speaker 1: into it, but then I'm like, huh, my idea or
Speaker 1: opinion has kind of changed at this point that you
Speaker 1: look at some of these names, You're like, huh, I
Speaker 1: thought he was really good, and I'm like, oh, whoa
Speaker 1: was he drafted that high? Oh? Okay, So it'll be
Speaker 1: fun to get into it later. Yeah. I had some
Speaker 1: surprising moments myself as I was going through it, like huh,
Speaker 1: I didn't realize he was that high, or I didn't
Speaker 1: realize he was that low. And they've gotten some production
Speaker 1: out of him. So I think it'll be interesting for
Speaker 1: some of the listeners out there to kind of hear
Speaker 1: some of that as well. Are you doing today, Nick, Great?
Speaker 1: Ready to jump in. I'm ready to go all right.
Speaker 1: This first topic though, I did this because I know
Speaker 1: Nick has some really really strong opinions on it, because
Speaker 1: you and I've had this conversation about off season training
Speaker 1: basically the way this is going right now. Obviously last
Speaker 1: year because there was because COVID was going on teams
Speaker 1: all their offseason work remotely, and as a result of that,
Speaker 1: what we've heard from the NFLPA and from the leadership
Speaker 1: of the NFLPA is that they want to continue doing
Speaker 1: that this year and probably going into the future, because
Speaker 1: they feel like it's better for the players to not
Speaker 1: train as much during the off season. That being said,
Speaker 1: what we've seen over the last couple of days is
Speaker 1: the NFLPA has basically told players, hey, there's not most
Speaker 1: of the stuff is volunteering. So if teams are not
Speaker 1: going to change the rules and say and they want
Speaker 1: teams to our players to train in person, then we're
Speaker 1: advising you guys to not show up and not show
Speaker 1: up until it's mandatory, which would be the mental mini
Speaker 1: camp that happens in I think in June. That being said,
Speaker 1: let's start first with what players do you think What
Speaker 1: do you think players will miss by not having offseason
Speaker 1: training in person and just doing it all remotely. Well,
Speaker 1: the first of all, the big part of off season
Speaker 1: training is training part of it. It's the actual it's
Speaker 1: the offseason conditioning program. That's that's what it's called, and
Speaker 1: so um, you know, I would imagine that it's a
Speaker 1: lot easier to train and condition and lift weights when
Speaker 1: there's a guy helping you do that and there's forty
Speaker 1: to fifty other players doing it all in groups. You know,
Speaker 1: you're trying to, you know, make sure that you get
Speaker 1: better here and you've got this guy doing this and
Speaker 1: he's pushing each other all that as opposed to go
Speaker 1: into some you know, I'm not gonna name it. I
Speaker 1: don't even know what our official sponsor is, but someplace
Speaker 1: where you got to go and do your own workouts
Speaker 1: and all that. So, um, I think that's the biggest
Speaker 1: part of it is is that you know, we always say, man,
Speaker 1: this guy in his second year or his third year
Speaker 1: is gonna come back, He's gonna look totally different. Well
Speaker 1: if that's is that really gonna happen? You know, like,
Speaker 1: is that gonna happens if you have to do it
Speaker 1: on your own? So I think the conditioning program part
Speaker 1: is the biggest thing of getting them all here. And
Speaker 1: from what I've been told, there has been a very
Speaker 1: good turnout so far with the guys in the weight room.
Speaker 1: We'll see what happens if you know they're advised differently. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I saw an article yesterday from Tom Pellicero where you say,
Speaker 1: at the Cowboys right now lead the league with regards
Speaker 1: to players that have been working out in their facilities.
Speaker 1: I think the number was like twenty five. Next closest
Speaker 1: team was like twenty and one of those teams, Denver,
Speaker 1: who had twenty, they put out a statement yesterday as
Speaker 1: a group saying that they were planning on not going
Speaker 1: to train in person, and so I think it, you know,
Speaker 1: we'll see how this all plays out for the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: and or do you think that there are there are
Speaker 1: issues that the Cowboys would have to face if they
Speaker 1: don't have that offseason training at person. I think there are,
Speaker 1: but real quick, just in general, going back to last
Speaker 1: year and some of the things that we did get
Speaker 1: to see last year from a virtual offseason. And again
Speaker 1: I'm not an athlete, I'm not an expert, so I
Speaker 1: don't really know, but we did notice a crazy amount
Speaker 1: of injuries during the season, like not just with the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: all around the league and big players. These weren't even
Speaker 1: one year guys or rookies. These were veteran guys that
Speaker 1: those are the guys that I believe Nix says are
Speaker 1: in those meetings sayings, well, we know how to take
Speaker 1: care of ourselves and of course you're never trying to
Speaker 1: get injured. But I think that maybe that's another layer
Speaker 1: as to why we got to see so many injuries
Speaker 1: last year. And it sucks. But with the Cowboys, it's
Speaker 1: just tough because once again Mike McCarthy and having new
Speaker 1: players coming in and again, you don't really know. I
Speaker 1: know a lot of people talk about cultures and having
Speaker 1: culture in teams, and like, I don't really know what
Speaker 1: the culture is here, and we haven't had access to
Speaker 1: that side of the building aside from Nick, but just
Speaker 1: in general, I mean, how difficult is that because it
Speaker 1: didn't work out for the Cowboys last year, So once
Speaker 1: again on the second year, I know he's more familiar
Speaker 1: with guys and things like that, but I think it's
Speaker 1: still important too, even if it's workouts, to be around
Speaker 1: the guys and just be around the building and being
Speaker 1: able to talk face to face, it does make a difference.
Speaker 1: How much do you think that affects McCarthy's ability to
Speaker 1: lead this team in only a second year when he
Speaker 1: didn't have that last year? And more importantly, does it
Speaker 1: affect Dan Quinn in what would be his first year
Speaker 1: as a Cowboys defensive coordinator. That's gonna be tough because
Speaker 1: then Quinn has a good, good reputation. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, you need to be there, you
Speaker 1: need to be present to actually make those kinds of improvements.
Speaker 1: And right now there are so many questions hanging in
Speaker 1: the air and so many different guys that you haven't
Speaker 1: seen put together yet. But with Mike McCarthy, I don't
Speaker 1: know what to think about him because last year when
Speaker 1: he talked to us in the media, he made it
Speaker 1: sound like everything was working out and it was great.
Speaker 1: And then which is what you have to say at
Speaker 1: that point, right, well, yeah, but at least I mean,
Speaker 1: if it's if it's difficult, at least say you know,
Speaker 1: we're doing everything we can, but it's been challenging. At
Speaker 1: least say that. Yeah, but it wasn't like that. Nobody
Speaker 1: wants to hear that, clearly because he said it the
Speaker 1: other day and it sounded like, you know that it
Speaker 1: sounded like he was making excuses. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know what it what else it could be. I mean
Speaker 1: like what I mean, nobody depends on what you you know,
Speaker 1: what your agenda is as far as what you're listening to. Like,
Speaker 1: do you want to just say, ah, that cowboys suck,
Speaker 1: they're terrible? Well, then then the coach says that, and
Speaker 1: it's like he's just given out excuses or whatever. But
Speaker 1: I mean it's true though, it's true. I mean, what
Speaker 1: the challenges were the challenges and it's still gonna be
Speaker 1: there if they're trying to implement a new defense and
Speaker 1: you say, how good dan Quinn is he? Yeah, he
Speaker 1: might be, But when did he get fired from Atlanta
Speaker 1: last year? Last year when they couldn't figure out you know,
Speaker 1: when they didn't have an offseason. And I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that was the reason, you know, because they had kind
Speaker 1: of been trending downward a little bit. But it's gonna
Speaker 1: come down to and this is this is such a
Speaker 1: tough situation for players. They're in a tough spot. Do
Speaker 1: they want to stick together as a union in NFLPA
Speaker 1: is in encouraging this? Or do they want to say, hey,
Speaker 1: you know what, last year sucked, We sucked. We need
Speaker 1: to be better than that. We need we need you know,
Speaker 1: we don't want to deal with that again. Let's get
Speaker 1: in here, let's let's learn this defense, let's get together
Speaker 1: as a team, and you go against your union by
Speaker 1: doing that. I mean, that's that's the challenge. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then then the NFL, like you said, the NFL steps
Speaker 1: in and says no, now you know, now it's a
Speaker 1: competitive disadvantage. Yeah, So it's it's kind of a seesaw
Speaker 1: thing back and forth here and you know, so hold
Speaker 1: on now that you said mentioned the competitive disadvantage is
Speaker 1: that each team has the option to do that or like,
Speaker 1: if it's the majority, then it's like leaguewise no right now,
Speaker 1: Right now, teams are being told from what I understand,
Speaker 1: they're being told to do their stuff remotely. But I
Speaker 1: think there's going to be a point when they will
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to be able to do stuff in person.
Speaker 1: And that's where it becomes a situation where let's say,
Speaker 1: for example, right now, you got to see all and
Speaker 1: you got the Broncos who have both issued statements saying
Speaker 1: as a team, as players, we don't plan to show up.
Speaker 1: So what happens if you get i don't know fifteen
Speaker 1: teams twenty teams that do the same thing and say
Speaker 1: they're not going to show up. Does it become a
Speaker 1: situation where the commissioner has to step in and say, okay,
Speaker 1: for the better of the league, so those other twelve
Speaker 1: teams don't get a competitive advantage, We're going to basically
Speaker 1: say everybody has to be remote, right what point does
Speaker 1: it get to whether the commissioner has to step in
Speaker 1: or feels like yes, or does it get to that
Speaker 1: point and it just becomes a competitive advantage and it
Speaker 1: just is what it is. If your players decide to come,
Speaker 1: you're going to get an advantage. Those are a lot
Speaker 1: of things that I think the league is going to
Speaker 1: have to consider here and try to figure out before
Speaker 1: they make a final decision on how they're gonna handle this.
Speaker 1: And I'll add one other level level of complexity to this. Nick,
Speaker 1: you talked about the stick with the union and kind
Speaker 1: of do that what happens for those players who have
Speaker 1: money tied to offseason training, Like there's some guys their
Speaker 1: contracts are have stipulations in them. They get a certain
Speaker 1: amount of money for showing up to train in the offseason.
Speaker 1: So are they willing to forego Yeah, are they willing
Speaker 1: to forego that money in order to stick with the union?
Speaker 1: Because I don't think. I don't think the union or
Speaker 1: those players who don't want to show up are going
Speaker 1: to just give them a check and say, Okay, we'll
Speaker 1: pay you instead of the teams. So I know if
Speaker 1: it was my house, my wife would be like, say,
Speaker 1: you got a job, go to your job, work right,
Speaker 1: So I think there's a whole different level of complexity
Speaker 1: that that's going to be involved in this, and we'll
Speaker 1: see how it all turns out. But it's not just
Speaker 1: as simple as do it or don't. I think it's
Speaker 1: an individual decision in a lot of ways. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then and then you're going to throw on top of
Speaker 1: all of that, even if they guys do show up,
Speaker 1: and now you're dealing with different aspects of it too,
Speaker 1: different layers like COVID. Now you know, which are the
Speaker 1: players vaccinated or are the ones that aren't? How different
Speaker 1: are they are they going to be? I think the
Speaker 1: NFL came out yesterday and said that if the players
Speaker 1: are not vaccinated, No, that was actually for team employees
Speaker 1: that aren't play. Team employs aren't vacina, they won't be
Speaker 1: around players and all that. And then you know, and
Speaker 1: I from what I've been told, the players that aren't
Speaker 1: vaccinated will be they'll kind of go back into what
Speaker 1: happened last year where they tested all daily testing, have
Speaker 1: masks and distancing. So there's gonna be there's gonna be
Speaker 1: some differences obviously, and how you treat certain players. And
Speaker 1: I know right now the Cowboys are focused on educating
Speaker 1: the players about the vaccine and hoping that that many
Speaker 1: of them take it. Of course, you know you can't
Speaker 1: force them to do that, but it's just there's just
Speaker 1: so many different layers to this. It's it's why the NFL.
Speaker 1: That's why we're about a week away from starting, or
Speaker 1: actually four or five days away from starting, and the
Speaker 1: NFL still hasn't figured out certain rules and guidelines, so
Speaker 1: it's been really tricky. Yeah, so what you know of
Speaker 1: these players and this team and this culture around here,
Speaker 1: and obviously we mentioned that that you know, the report
Speaker 1: came out that the Cowboys lead the league as far
Speaker 1: as number of players that are working out already in
Speaker 1: the buildings. We know a lot of these players live
Speaker 1: here in Dallas, so it's not like they're leaving at
Speaker 1: the end of season to go somewhere else. Is where
Speaker 1: they live and so it's a much easier thing for
Speaker 1: them to work out at the facility. That all being said,
Speaker 1: what do you expect to happen with the Cowboys players?
Speaker 1: Do you expect them to as a group pull out
Speaker 1: or do you expect them to be all in and
Speaker 1: still be here working out all in? I mean, we've
Speaker 1: seen we've seen it with different situations when it comes
Speaker 1: to the Cowboys's just in general, whatever they want. Whoever,
Speaker 1: Like if Jerry Jones comes out and say, oh, which
Speaker 1: we know Jerry Jones has a certain expectation right now,
Speaker 1: if he's like wanting them to be here and be
Speaker 1: a part of it and just encouraging that, I feel
Speaker 1: that most likely everybody in that locker room will come
Speaker 1: together and be like, Okay, let's be here, because we've
Speaker 1: seen it happen, you know, and different scenarios again, we
Speaker 1: saw with the whole protest during the anthem and things
Speaker 1: like that, where they find a way to come as
Speaker 1: a group and do it together, whatever it is. And
Speaker 1: I feel that after the experience from last year and
Speaker 1: knowing that this year things are improving with like the
Speaker 1: vaccine and seeing the success that especially the Cowboys had
Speaker 1: with the protocols that they had in place. We didn't
Speaker 1: get many cases here within the players as far as
Speaker 1: contamination and players that got sick. So I think that
Speaker 1: gives a certain level level of comfort and security and
Speaker 1: knowing that you can actually do it. So I would
Speaker 1: imagine they all come together and are here together as
Speaker 1: a team and willingly, you know, not like they're being
Speaker 1: forced or anything, but that they would actually want to
Speaker 1: do it. That sounds good and that that that might
Speaker 1: be the case. What I don't know is, you know, again,
Speaker 1: it comes down to a lot of it as workouts, conditioning,
Speaker 1: all that conditioning program. And you know, we we know
Speaker 1: what happened last year. Obviously, the Cowboys lost tragically lost
Speaker 1: their strength coach in the middle of the season, Marcus
Speaker 1: paul Um. And you know they've they've you know, they're
Speaker 1: still getting that that program together and and so some
Speaker 1: new faces there, uh, not entirely new, but but some
Speaker 1: so you kind of wonder, and I don't know what
Speaker 1: that would mean. Does that mean more unity or less?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know that. Um so I
Speaker 1: wish I had better answers. I mean, you're you're you're
Speaker 1: trying to get into the heads and minds of certain players.
Speaker 1: And then in those players that you've got your veteran
Speaker 1: guys that probably agree with the union, agree with the NFLPA,
Speaker 1: guys like JC Treader. Yep, you know that that's that's
Speaker 1: kind of leading that charge. And then I'm sure you've
Speaker 1: got guys that are younger, and you know, maybe guys
Speaker 1: that were injured and coming back to Gung Hole. They
Speaker 1: want to get back into this thing and they're tired
Speaker 1: of having to do this on their own. So I
Speaker 1: think even within a team, it's gonna be tough. I
Speaker 1: couldn't I couldn't tell you one way or another, which
Speaker 1: way that they would lean on this. I really don't.
Speaker 1: If I was going to answer this question, I would
Speaker 1: say I would answer it with a question, tell me
Speaker 1: where Dak and DeMarcus Lawrence fall on this. Once I
Speaker 1: know where they fall on this, then I can give
Speaker 1: you an opinion on what I think will happen the
Speaker 1: rest of the players, because I think those two players
Speaker 1: have a lot of sway in that locker room. And
Speaker 1: I think when when you have veterans that are respected,
Speaker 1: that have an opinion and they go into a room
Speaker 1: with the other guys and say, guys, here's my case.
Speaker 1: Here's why I think this is the right way to go.
Speaker 1: Especially with somebody like Dak, who is as charismatic as
Speaker 1: he is, those people tend to have people that follow him.
Speaker 1: It's the reason why he's a great quarterback, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: is because he has the ability to get people to
Speaker 1: buy in and and and follow what he wants to do.
Speaker 1: So tell me what those two guys want to do.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what ends up happening with this team,
Speaker 1: because I think they's going to be here. Let me.
Speaker 1: But I will say this, what I don't know. What
Speaker 1: I don't know is how does he fall. Does he
Speaker 1: think that ultimately you can be a better player throughout
Speaker 1: the season if you have more downtime during the offseason,
Speaker 1: And downtime may not mean you're doing nothing, It just
Speaker 1: made mean you're not doing what they would have you
Speaker 1: doing if you were working out here, right, That's what
Speaker 1: I don't know. Everything I've seen and heard about Dak's
Speaker 1: suggests to me he is a an extremely hard worker,
Speaker 1: So I don't even know if that would buy in
Speaker 1: that would be a thing for him. I think he
Speaker 1: probably would be lack less work, But I just don't know.
Speaker 1: I had that conversation with him. And there's two parts
Speaker 1: of this. I've been talking about focusing on the conditioning
Speaker 1: side of a conditioning program. As we get a little
Speaker 1: bit more into especially into May, you started talking about
Speaker 1: the OTAs and the organized team activities, which is a
Speaker 1: lot of the installing of the offense and the defense,
Speaker 1: especially defense which is which is a new new scheme
Speaker 1: this year, and you're trying to be versatile and flexible
Speaker 1: to do all these different things, you certainly need to
Speaker 1: be on the field to try to do that. So
Speaker 1: that's where I think the big issue is going to be.
Speaker 1: That's where I think guys in the NFLPA feel like
Speaker 1: is unnecessary to do that much teaching and OTA sessions
Speaker 1: when I'm sure you know the the end of the
Speaker 1: coaches feel like we don't have enough time. We have
Speaker 1: to cram all this stuff in here. So that's where
Speaker 1: I think if a team decides that they want to
Speaker 1: be really better, conditioning is one thing, teaching installing, but
Speaker 1: that's the part that's still going to happen, right because
Speaker 1: I don't think how what I've heard is remotely. They're
Speaker 1: still planning to do everything remotely, So all of the
Speaker 1: training and teaching and classroom work that's still stuff still
Speaker 1: is going to happen. What the what the players are
Speaker 1: saying is there doesn't need to be on field stuff,
Speaker 1: like they don't need to work on the field, they
Speaker 1: need they only need the remote stuff, the same thing
Speaker 1: they did last year. They have all the classroom work
Speaker 1: they just didn't have the in person on field work. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, as I speak from experience, I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: are my kids. Are my kids learning better virtually or
Speaker 1: in the classroom. I mean, that's the thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can, you can, you can just figure that out yourself.
Speaker 1: What I mean if you had to sit there and
Speaker 1: learn I mean the same thing with a meeting or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's hard to get someone's attention for
Speaker 1: that long. So and you don't know if they're picking
Speaker 1: it up until you get them on the field and say,
Speaker 1: now do it. You know, that's when you find out
Speaker 1: if they're picking up all the information that you're teaching
Speaker 1: them in the classroom. Yeah, all right, we're gonna take
Speaker 1: our first break. We come back. We're gonna jump in
Speaker 1: to draft talk. Well, to go through all these drafts
Speaker 1: going back to twenty sixteen. Talk about every player. We're
Speaker 1: gonna define whether they have exceeded expectations, met expectations, they're
Speaker 1: below expectations, or they're the dreaded bustle talking about that.
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Speaker 1: It is the second segment of The Break, live from
Speaker 1: the SWBC Mortgage studios at the Star. We are presented
Speaker 1: by Geico. We're gonna talk draft. We got the draft
Speaker 1: starting up two weeks from tomorrow, and as I said
Speaker 1: before the Break, like, you really need a few years
Speaker 1: after your draft picks to really be able to evaluate.
Speaker 1: And I know after this draft we'll have a ton
Speaker 1: of people that will be out there saying giving draft grades,
Speaker 1: but it's just really premature. Into you can see how
Speaker 1: get how guys get into the league and how they
Speaker 1: how they how they acclimate to their jobs or new
Speaker 1: jobs or new environments, and then you can determine. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna go back to twenty sixteen and beyond I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen and forward and talk about each
Speaker 1: of the draft picks the Cowboys have made. And I'm
Speaker 1: going to give a name, and I want you guys
Speaker 1: to tell me if you think they exceeded expectations, they
Speaker 1: met expectations, they're below expectations, or they were a bust.
Speaker 1: Question are these expectations as far as in the general
Speaker 1: public and what just overall people thought about the player
Speaker 1: or personal expectations, personal expectations. But I think I'm looking
Speaker 1: for more based upon where they would draft. So what
Speaker 1: you would generally think of a first round pick? Did
Speaker 1: he meet your expectations? Second round? Did he meet your expectations?
Speaker 1: It's because I think that factors in sure. Everybody has
Speaker 1: different thoughts on that right now. I mean, well of
Speaker 1: what you think of first or second and third, you know,
Speaker 1: and also where in the first round are you are
Speaker 1: you taking these guys? Yeah, alright, let's start with the
Speaker 1: first one. Twenty sixteen first round pick, Zekiel Elliott met expectations,
Speaker 1: above expectations? Where is he? Um? I think he certainly
Speaker 1: met the expectations. I think he's above them a little bit.
Speaker 1: I'm really yeah. I think I mean when when you
Speaker 1: when you drafted to him, when they drafted him, and
Speaker 1: you said he's gonna leave the league and rushing in
Speaker 1: three times, and uh, he's gonna be you know, he's
Speaker 1: gonna single hand, not single handedly, but he's gonna carry
Speaker 1: this team right now on his back with a rookie quarterback.
Speaker 1: And they're gonna go, and they're gonna go, you know,
Speaker 1: thirteen and three. Um wow, you know you're not expecting that,
Speaker 1: expecting a really good running back, but you don't, you know,
Speaker 1: if you expect all of that. Now he you know,
Speaker 1: it's been five years and he's kind of he's he's
Speaker 1: starting to trend downwards. So you wonder this is a
Speaker 1: big make or break year for him to kind of
Speaker 1: like where his career is going to be defined. But
Speaker 1: I think he's definitely met the expectations. I think he
Speaker 1: exceeded them a little bit. From me, I would agree
Speaker 1: with that. I think he exceeded it just because of
Speaker 1: just like Nick mentioned, the how much he carried the
Speaker 1: team and how much load was put on his back
Speaker 1: when he got here. Just taking everything into account, I
Speaker 1: think he and I guess, knowing and me watching since
Speaker 1: I started working with the Cowboys all the different running
Speaker 1: backs and what they had done up to this point,
Speaker 1: and then here comes this guy called Ezekiel Elliot and
Speaker 1: goes in there and does what he was doing. To me,
Speaker 1: it was impressive and it definitely was above what I
Speaker 1: was expecting from a running back. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I'd go all the way with above expectations. I think
Speaker 1: he met expectations, and that probably is because my expectations
Speaker 1: for the fourth overall pick in the draft is exactly
Speaker 1: what he provided. He came in here and was immediately
Speaker 1: an impact player, probably one of the best players. I
Speaker 1: probably was one of the best players on this team.
Speaker 1: Had some off the field stuff that he had to
Speaker 1: deal with, but was by far among the best in
Speaker 1: the league since he's been in the league. So that's
Speaker 1: what you would expect from before a number four overall pick.
Speaker 1: The reason why I wouldn't put above that is because
Speaker 1: of last year. Really, you look at his performance last year,
Speaker 1: you look at his production last year, you start to wonder, like,
Speaker 1: is this kind of the plateau? I have we already
Speaker 1: seen the plateau for him? If it's a number four
Speaker 1: overall pick, you expect him to still be ascending at
Speaker 1: this point in his career. That I don't know, and
Speaker 1: I want to see what happens this year. I agree
Speaker 1: with you, Nick, this is a critical year for him
Speaker 1: in my opinion, because I want to see if last
Speaker 1: year was an aberration or if it's a situation where
Speaker 1: he's still ascending. It was just a weird year for everybody.
Speaker 1: He was coming off, you know, having a I mean,
Speaker 1: then he was coming into a situation where you had
Speaker 1: COVID and and just not everything was not set up
Speaker 1: the way that it should be to get success out
Speaker 1: of your running game. You missed the two tackles, you
Speaker 1: didn't have the quarterback. There's a lot that you can
Speaker 1: point to, But that would be the reason why I
Speaker 1: didn't say he exceeded it. Okay, I thought you wanted
Speaker 1: to go back. I mean, you know, it's just you're right.
Speaker 1: I mean, fourth overall pick. You expect that. But I mean,
Speaker 1: you know he's in here. This is six year you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, in midway through his fifth year, he's the
Speaker 1: third all time leading rusher in Cowboys history. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know that's impressive. That's impressive. I mean, and I
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's easy to answer that now
Speaker 1: and say, well, he's starting to kind of go down
Speaker 1: a little bit, but I mean he I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: if you would have just said on draft day or
Speaker 1: oh man, everyone's excited all this stuff. You know, everybody's
Speaker 1: saying LFG, you know, Zeke, And if you said this
Speaker 1: is going to be a stats I've been like, Wow, Okay,
Speaker 1: so I was a little bit more impressed by by that.
Speaker 1: And again this is not me saying I'm not impressed,
Speaker 1: and I don't think he's done his job. He's certainly
Speaker 1: done his job, and I think he's earned everything he's
Speaker 1: gotten here. I think the difference is, like, that's what
Speaker 1: I would expect from a fourth from the fourth overall
Speaker 1: pick in the draft. I expect him to be Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame caliber. And so he's on that line. And
Speaker 1: so let's see where he goes from here. He's still
Speaker 1: got some more years to put in and if he's
Speaker 1: going to get to the Hall of Fame, but he's
Speaker 1: on that track, right, and that's where I think he
Speaker 1: should be. All right, let's walk to the next one.
Speaker 1: This will be interesting. The second round pick for the
Speaker 1: cow Boys that year was one Jalen Smith. He was
Speaker 1: thirty fourth overall pick at the beginning of the second round.
Speaker 1: Where do you think he falls, exceeded met below or bust.
Speaker 1: This is tricky because of the expectations of the pick
Speaker 1: and the player. Not just the thirty fourth overall player.
Speaker 1: This is the I mean the pick, this is the
Speaker 1: player specific, player specific. He exceeded expectations for me, without
Speaker 1: a doubt. He made the Pro Bowl. He exceeded expectations.
Speaker 1: Wasn't sure he was ever gonna play. I really didn't,
Speaker 1: and neither do they. They didn't know. They didn't know.
Speaker 1: They had a good idea because the guy that did
Speaker 1: the surgery was one of their team doctors, but the
Speaker 1: nerves had not had they haven't fired up yet. They
Speaker 1: didn't know, and for him they did. They finally got
Speaker 1: to play. He's made a Pro Bowl. Is he everything
Speaker 1: you want him to be? No, he's not. He's not,
Speaker 1: and he frustrates people in many different ways at this point.
Speaker 1: But the fact that he played, got that contract, all
Speaker 1: that he exceeded my expectations for what I ever thought
Speaker 1: he was going to be camp such a tricky one.
Speaker 1: That is one. Yeah, I mean I'm just so so
Speaker 1: in defense of exceeded because of the injury aspect. But
Speaker 1: then it's I don't I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 1: I choose skip, I skipped this. No, that's what you
Speaker 1: don't have. No, No, I really don't know, because it
Speaker 1: depends how far you look at it. I thought a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, after the he got back into
Speaker 1: you know, when he got back and got into the
Speaker 1: field with the Cowboys and all that. I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: he has some some growing to do and some hesitation
Speaker 1: in his movements and all that. And then you started
Speaker 1: seeing some improvement. And then he got to the point
Speaker 1: where you're like, Okay, we're past the injury. Now we're
Speaker 1: actually evaluating him and looking at him as a legit
Speaker 1: NFL linebacker. But then he wasn't meeting those expectations for
Speaker 1: me as a when you start judging different linebackers around
Speaker 1: the league. So it's just I guess met with a
Speaker 1: little exceeded just because of the injury. But I don't
Speaker 1: know as of right now. He I would call it
Speaker 1: a bus but no, depends how far. But well, no,
Speaker 1: he did sign a new contract. How the far how
Speaker 1: long is a contract for I was like a five
Speaker 1: year deal. I mean, you could say he's a bust,
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean, not as a bus
Speaker 1: as a draft as a draft pick. I don't think
Speaker 1: you could say that now, but you could say, and
Speaker 1: we usually don't turn the word bust on free agents,
Speaker 1: you know, but from the free age from the time
Speaker 1: he signed the contract to now, he certainly has not
Speaker 1: met expectations. He's below expectations as a player after in
Speaker 1: his second you know contract, it's a better way to
Speaker 1: put it. Also make the case for everybody that's signed
Speaker 1: a contract other than maybe Zach Martin. You know, we
Speaker 1: disagree a little bit. And then you know d law
Speaker 1: I mean like, yeah, you and I disagree on law Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think he's met expectations. But that's also
Speaker 1: because I don't value him justin Sachs. I value him
Speaker 1: in a lot of other things too that I think
Speaker 1: he's contributed to this team, particularly his ability to stop
Speaker 1: the run and just to make impact plays. Like I
Speaker 1: think he is the most impactful defensive player you have,
Speaker 1: and that's what you're paying him to be. And I
Speaker 1: don't think you can name another guy that's been more
Speaker 1: impactful than DeMarcus Lawrence on this defense. No, But if
Speaker 1: you said, hey, okay, and where is he on that?
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's in twenty fourteen. Okay, he's not
Speaker 1: even on this Ye, he's not on this list. But
Speaker 1: I mean, but that just says how much like he's
Speaker 1: still here up to twenty fourteen and productive? Right? That? Right?
Speaker 1: But you say, all right, we're paying you to do this,
Speaker 1: and then on the day he signed to be like, so,
Speaker 1: what's going to happen in the future. What do you
Speaker 1: see in the next few years? While guys, I see
Speaker 1: myself getting about six sacks one year, three and a
Speaker 1: half another, I see us being on the worst defense
Speaker 1: in the history of the Cowboys as far as giving
Speaker 1: up points. But I'm gonna be the best of that,
Speaker 1: you know. So it's like, Okay, he can't help the
Speaker 1: guys that are around him. He could you really go
Speaker 1: like that defense last year? He was not the problem.
Speaker 1: I don't think I left games saying, man, DeMarcus Lawrence,
Speaker 1: like they gotta do something about him. That was not
Speaker 1: the problem. He's the best of the group. But I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, somebody's got to be the best of a
Speaker 1: historically bad defense. And I'm just saying, if he was
Speaker 1: that much a twenty one and a half million dollars
Speaker 1: year player to rush the passer, you could make a
Speaker 1: little bit more of a difference, That's all I'm saying. So, so,
Speaker 1: name a guy that is in the league that is
Speaker 1: that caliber player that doesn't have other guys on the
Speaker 1: defense with him, like other good players on the defense
Speaker 1: with him. I don't know. I don't know what the
Speaker 1: Bears have. I don't I don't know. Well, we know
Speaker 1: the sack totals over there. What you would expect for
Speaker 1: the amount of money they're paying him either like, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's not. And again it's not always sacked totals. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's pressures and and laws got a lot of
Speaker 1: pressures he's got. He's got a lot of pressures there on.
Speaker 1: All I'm saying is is that everybody gets someone. You're
Speaker 1: on the worst defense in the history of the Cowboys
Speaker 1: as far as giving up points. Everybody, we got it.
Speaker 1: Nick Okay, keep saying that, keep saying that, about saying
Speaker 1: he gets a lot, he gets a little bit too.
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine if he said he didn't. Imagine if
Speaker 1: he said, no, I did my job. I mean, I
Speaker 1: get public enemy number three. I get it. When you're
Speaker 1: the leader, by default, you have to take yeah, part
Speaker 1: of the blame when things don't go well. I get that.
Speaker 1: All I'm saying is I think the Cowboys paid him
Speaker 1: to be the best player on their defense. That's how
Speaker 1: he's being paid. I think he is that Now he
Speaker 1: can't control what they do in draft and free agency.
Speaker 1: When it comes to the corners and the linebackers and
Speaker 1: the defensive tackles and all that other stuff, he can't
Speaker 1: control that, so he can only play with what he has,
Speaker 1: so he can do what he can do. And if
Speaker 1: offenses say, hey, we're gonna take him out of the game,
Speaker 1: we're gonna try to limit him, it requires somebody else
Speaker 1: to step up. And if you're not willing to step up, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I mean your environment and the people that you have
Speaker 1: around you, Despite of how good you are, it does,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, affect your own personal
Speaker 1: performance because it's kind of like depending on the energy
Speaker 1: and who's like, you need someone else to be able
Speaker 1: to do that. And if you look at the flip side,
Speaker 1: we just talked about Zeke, and I think that's exactly
Speaker 1: the same thing that happened on the other side of
Speaker 1: the ball. Zeke wasn't you know, to me, he was
Speaker 1: the best player there, but he wasn't able to do
Speaker 1: what he was expected to do because of the situation.
Speaker 1: So the same thing goes with del and I expect
Speaker 1: more from him. You line up predominantly on the left
Speaker 1: side of the defensive line, you're facing the opposing team's
Speaker 1: right tackle every play. I would imagine you would get
Speaker 1: a little bit more healthy, I mean more sack than that,
Speaker 1: and getting chipped and getting doubled. That all goes with
Speaker 1: it too. Le Let's not leak that out. I get it,
Speaker 1: but that's they all get chipped and they all get doubled,
Speaker 1: and you've got to be able to make some more
Speaker 1: than others. I'm guessing Duran's Armstrong doesn't get the same
Speaker 1: kind of attention as DeMarcus and on every other every Tuesday,
Speaker 1: he doesn't get the same attention either in baking. Let's know,
Speaker 1: we're spending too much time on a guy not on
Speaker 1: this list. I've realized during this conversation, I've realized this
Speaker 1: is gonna span into next week's show. We're two players
Speaker 1: in on five years worth as well. So yeah, there's
Speaker 1: one player on this twenty sixteen list we can we
Speaker 1: can definitely skip over if we want to. But well, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm actually I want to make sure we get to
Speaker 1: him because obviously it's gonna be real quick. But let's
Speaker 1: start with let's let's go to the Lee Collins, he
Speaker 1: was a third round pick in twenty and sixteen, is
Speaker 1: he above at or below expectation. He met expectations for me,
Speaker 1: a third round pick. For me, you go up there
Speaker 1: and you be a be a good player, to be
Speaker 1: a solid player, have some have some good moments, be
Speaker 1: a start, and uh, you know, in time to sign
Speaker 1: a contract, I mean you get you get now. He
Speaker 1: didn't get money here. You got to remember, big difference
Speaker 1: here in evaluating these guys is that there was coaching changes,
Speaker 1: head coaching changes, but also coordinator changes, and one of
Speaker 1: them happened when he was up for contract. Do you
Speaker 1: want to go to a guy that drafted you, Rod
Speaker 1: Marinelli and the Raiders and go there or do you
Speaker 1: want to try a different scheme here? So you know,
Speaker 1: I think they would have liked to keep him, but
Speaker 1: not at that money. So I thought he met expectations.
Speaker 1: I don't really know how you judge a third round pick,
Speaker 1: but based on personal expectations, I think to me he
Speaker 1: exceeded them, especially towards the last year. Honestly, he's not
Speaker 1: a guy that attracts a lot of attention or gets
Speaker 1: attention overall, but his last year I remember a training
Speaker 1: camp and in games I would be watching him and
Speaker 1: I began appreciating his value a lot more than I
Speaker 1: used to. So to me, I think that towards the
Speaker 1: end he didn't exceed expectations. My judging, I expect a
Speaker 1: third round pick to definitely make the team, but to
Speaker 1: be a contributor as a rookie, whether it be special teams, rotational,
Speaker 1: and then also at your position, by your second year,
Speaker 1: I think you should be definitely be competing to start. Remember,
Speaker 1: they drafted you with the thought that you could get there.
Speaker 1: You should be starting by your second or third year,
Speaker 1: at least if it's defense, at least in one of
Speaker 1: those guys that plays a lot in a heavy rotation.
Speaker 1: And so you know, and and and then you know,
Speaker 1: if you make the Pro Bowl or you're you're that
Speaker 1: kind of player, then you're certainly exceeding all that. You
Speaker 1: can't say every third round pick is Jason Witten, you know,
Speaker 1: because some of them are j J. Wilcox. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know which which you know he started games too.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think of third round. He started,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't a great player. But you know, the
Speaker 1: third round you never really know. But I thought he
Speaker 1: met some Yeah, I think that's why the pick matters, right,
Speaker 1: is because you're in a third round pick, you're not
Speaker 1: expecting them necessarily to be great, Like they might not
Speaker 1: get that second contract from you, and they only he
Speaker 1: got a one year deal with the Raiders. Now he's
Speaker 1: got another deal with the Texans, so he's kind of
Speaker 1: got it. Might bounce around for a few more years,
Speaker 1: ends up with a I don't know, seven to ten
Speaker 1: year career for a third round pick, and he's going
Speaker 1: to be starting at a lot of those stops. That's
Speaker 1: a pretty successful career for third years around pick. So
Speaker 1: for me, he met expectations, didn't exceed it, but he
Speaker 1: met expectations. All right, real quick, before we take our
Speaker 1: final break, let's talk about Charles Tapper, fourth round pick,
Speaker 1: first fourth round pick for the Cowboys. Met expectations below,
Speaker 1: expectations below below expectations. He did not. He didn't. He
Speaker 1: didn't hardly do anything. And I don't think he's in
Speaker 1: the league at all, So no, I would expect him
Speaker 1: to be more of a contributor. What what did we
Speaker 1: use to turn bust on because about the same bus. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's fine. I forgot him. If you if you wanted
Speaker 1: to run bust, I think you could. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean he was injured so much and poor guy. I
Speaker 1: felt terrible. He had zero luck and great guy, great
Speaker 1: you know the stories heartbreaking, Yeah yeah, and always with
Speaker 1: a smile on his face. Great dude, honestly, but it
Speaker 1: just sucks. He had the worst luck. Every time got
Speaker 1: injured with something, it was something else and something else.
Speaker 1: So we never really got to see him too much.
Speaker 1: And he you know, sometimes players get judged by guys
Speaker 1: around them. Yeah, so when you're the when you're the
Speaker 1: first of two fourth round picks and the second one
Speaker 1: turned out pretty good, all right, it's gonna be tough
Speaker 1: for that first first. But he didn't play, and he
Speaker 1: didn't he was he was a bust. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think fourth round. I don't think anything past fourth round
Speaker 1: is a bust. See I disagree with you that they
Speaker 1: just don't show up and they were overweight and they
Speaker 1: didn't ever make it to camp or something. But I
Speaker 1: it's hard to bust as a I personally think once
Speaker 1: you get past second round. I'm dicey about giving the
Speaker 1: term because I look at that and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: don't think he was a bust for fourth round. There's
Speaker 1: a reason why you're in the fourth round. They're probably
Speaker 1: risk associated with you from a play standpoint, maybe from
Speaker 1: an injury standpoint, whatever the case might be. I don't
Speaker 1: look at him a bus I just think that was
Speaker 1: a chance they took in the fourth round and it
Speaker 1: didn't work out for him. That's not a bust because
Speaker 1: there's a reason why he's in the fourth round. I'm
Speaker 1: not as proper guys, so my vocabulary. So you're like,
Speaker 1: he's a bus No, but great guy. I just I
Speaker 1: always felt it's really bad for him. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna take our final break and we come back.
Speaker 1: He well, you want to just knock this one out
Speaker 1: because I'm gonna say, exeare it's pretty easy. Exceeded expectations.
Speaker 1: Don't need to say much about that one. All right,
Speaker 1: So we got one more done. We'll go to our
Speaker 1: final break, we'll come back. We'll finish off the two
Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen draft. That shouldn't take too long. We'll
Speaker 1: jump into the twenty seventeen draft, maybe get through that
Speaker 1: before the end of the show. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 1: just do by. Back to the break. Get your draft
Speaker 1: coverage of the Cowboys way with the official twenty twenty
Speaker 1: one Dallas Cowboys Star Magazine Draft Guide. The guide includes
Speaker 1: all the information and analysis you need to know for
Speaker 1: the cowboys upcoming draft. Get your copy today for only
Speaker 1: four ninety five at Dallas Cowboys dot com slash Star
Speaker 1: Welcome Back. It is the second segment of the break
Speaker 1: Cleft in the s WBC Mortgage Studio at the Star
Speaker 1: presented by Geico. Nick put that up again so people
Speaker 1: can see Star Magazine this camera. Yeah, crys will figure
Speaker 1: it out, but that that's what Nick is talking about.
Speaker 1: That's what you need to get. If you're gonna be hyah,
Speaker 1: you give it to me, all right. So this is
Speaker 1: the magazine Nick is talking about. Star Magazine is the
Speaker 1: Draft Special. Um, if you're going to be watching the draft,
Speaker 1: you need this like you need this. This is the
Speaker 1: bible of the draft. You can have all the players
Speaker 1: in here and Nick, your team put this all together
Speaker 1: did a phenomenal job. But it's an opportunity for you
Speaker 1: to know about all the picks throughout the draft that
Speaker 1: you can follow and you can follow a lot and
Speaker 1: kind of know what players are left on the board,
Speaker 1: read a little bit about each one and just kind
Speaker 1: of know kind of follow the draft. So it's a
Speaker 1: it's a must. Half should check it out, get it
Speaker 1: if you haven't gotten it already, and use it for
Speaker 1: Draft weekend. That's one of my favorite smells. If you
Speaker 1: have like an odd smell, that one. This this like
Speaker 1: freshly printed magazine. When I was a kid, and we
Speaker 1: used to go to like my dad would take me
Speaker 1: into games, Like I would always get the game program.
Speaker 1: I collected them, and there's just when you get a
Speaker 1: new program, when you're sitting in the stands an hour
Speaker 1: early and you're you know, thumbing through it and all that,
Speaker 1: and you st just the smell like that is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite Like it's a distinct smell, but it
Speaker 1: really just comes back to going to games as a kid.
Speaker 1: But like, that was one of my favorite things that
Speaker 1: actually takes me back to the days of Jose Cruz
Speaker 1: and say Sarceadanio Astros, Astros. When I was a kid,
Speaker 1: that was always like I wanted a program so I
Speaker 1: could just flip through and see all the players up close,
Speaker 1: see their pictures. And yeah, it does. You're right, it
Speaker 1: brings back the memories. It's not a smell so much
Speaker 1: as much as it's just the memories associated with it.
Speaker 1: All right, let's jump back in. We're talking about the draft.
Speaker 1: We're instill in two and sixteen draft. We're not gonna
Speaker 1: get very far on this, but what do you have
Speaker 1: a few other guys in two thy sixteen and one
Speaker 1: that I think is of a pretty significant consequence, sixth
Speaker 1: round pick quarterback Anthony Brown met expectations below expectations or
Speaker 1: exceeded expectations. He exceeded expectations for me. In fact, I
Speaker 1: mentioned him a lot here lately when when we're talking
Speaker 1: about do you trade around, do you trade picks? Do
Speaker 1: you move up? I want to get as many picks
Speaker 1: as I can. And because if you go and look,
Speaker 1: and I don't know how many years we're gonna get
Speaker 1: to go here in the last five years, but if
Speaker 1: you look at all of the drafts, every draft, I
Speaker 1: believe in the sixth or seventh round, the Cowboys are
Speaker 1: somebody's is helping you, somebody's playing one year. There's a
Speaker 1: couple of guys, maybe this twenty sixteen. So you know
Speaker 1: you're throwing stuff at the wall in the six or
Speaker 1: seventh round. See what sticks, and and things have been
Speaker 1: able to stick a couple of times, and they don't always,
Speaker 1: but you know you draft three or four guys in
Speaker 1: those rounds, are you're gonna get one? Anthony Brown has
Speaker 1: exceeded for me, agree, mainly because of how much the
Speaker 1: Cowboys have had to use him and rely on him.
Speaker 1: So I mean from a guy drafted at that round,
Speaker 1: I would imagine they would be gone by now. I mean, yes,
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean a lot sooner than
Speaker 1: got a second contract. You know, he's one of the
Speaker 1: higher paid guys. I mean, he's not he's great player
Speaker 1: by any means I mean, but he's been a serviceable
Speaker 1: player that started in some games, and he's made some
Speaker 1: plays for you, So it definitely exceeded. This is the
Speaker 1: quintessential example of what they call a value pick. To
Speaker 1: get a guy like this in the sixth round, and
Speaker 1: I actually forgot he was that low of a draft
Speaker 1: pick for some reason in my mind, I was thinking
Speaker 1: he was a fourth round pick. But to be a
Speaker 1: sixth round pick and be a guy that's giving you
Speaker 1: quality starts. Again, he's not great, We're not going to
Speaker 1: pretend like he's great. But a guy that can give
Speaker 1: you solid production at the cornerback position enough for you
Speaker 1: to keep him back for a second contract, and you
Speaker 1: got him in the sixth round. That's a valuable use
Speaker 1: of a draft pick. And this is where I think,
Speaker 1: and you mentioned it, Nick, as we go through this
Speaker 1: over this show. In the next show, this is where
Speaker 1: I think Will and this team do such a phenomenal job.
Speaker 1: You can look through all of these drafts and there
Speaker 1: are six and seventh round picks that have made the
Speaker 1: team and not only made the team, but have ended
Speaker 1: up starters for the team. Now, you could also, on
Speaker 1: the flip side of that, you could say, well, maybe
Speaker 1: that's why the defense hadn't been as good as it's been, Like,
Speaker 1: that's why they've had some of the results because they
Speaker 1: don't have as good a talent. But you get the
Speaker 1: six or seventh round pick. So if you have an
Speaker 1: argument with that, it's not about what they used the
Speaker 1: sixth or seventh round pick on. It's what they did
Speaker 1: with free agency and what they did with those earlier
Speaker 1: pick to get those more impact players, because you gotta
Speaker 1: have these kind of glue guys on your team. And
Speaker 1: I think they've done a phenomenal job here, and I
Speaker 1: think Anthony Brown's a good example of that. All right,
Speaker 1: let's move on to Cabon Frasier sixth round pick bove
Speaker 1: Met below. I guess maybe Matt, judging on the round,
Speaker 1: I would say, Matt, I mean, you definitely did not
Speaker 1: get as much used from him as you did with
Speaker 1: Anthony Brown, but he and he struggled with injuries and
Speaker 1: all that and had to battle with that being off
Speaker 1: the field. But I think, I mean, they got a
Speaker 1: decent use out of him when they needed to. So
Speaker 1: I would just say, Matt, yeah, well I was probably
Speaker 1: say exceeded again, it's just my expectations. I don't always
Speaker 1: expect these guys to make the team. Uh, you know
Speaker 1: when he made it a few years he was here,
Speaker 1: a good special teams player. Uh, started a couple of games,
Speaker 1: but uh, you know it just I thought I thought
Speaker 1: he was. He was a good role player still in
Speaker 1: the league. I believe the place for the moment Dolphins.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I think he's been good. Yeah when
Speaker 1: you go again, you got a six round player. Yeah
Speaker 1: that five years later, still playing in the NFL. To me,
Speaker 1: that succeeding expectations. That's what you want. And I think
Speaker 1: he provided what what he needed to provide for this team,
Speaker 1: being drafted where he was. Finally that that draft ended
Speaker 1: with a six round pick. Darius Jackson running back above
Speaker 1: met below? What do you think met? I mean, bounced around,
Speaker 1: played Okay, was never good enough to make the team,
Speaker 1: probably came here three times, had some injuries. Um, just
Speaker 1: you know just just was a guy. It wasn't I mean,
Speaker 1: didn't really wouldn't below It's hard to be below expectations,
Speaker 1: you know, low in the draft low. Yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: so the same thing is he. I mean they just
Speaker 1: could never find a place for him. But he served
Speaker 1: as a body for practice and all that. So I guess, Matt,
Speaker 1: I don't know where you're listed, like if you missing
Speaker 1: a guy here, But I mean Rico Gathers was in
Speaker 1: this draft too, in the sixth round. Did you can
Speaker 1: veniently leave him off? No? I didn't. I accidentally left
Speaker 1: him off and stuff. The first time I've accidentally left
Speaker 1: him off. Something just it happens, and you know he
Speaker 1: But see, I think it's a good example of that's
Speaker 1: what you're doing. You're this is when you start taking risks.
Speaker 1: The Cowboys have done it their whole like for sixty years.
Speaker 1: They've been doing this. You never know. I mean Antonio Gates,
Speaker 1: I don't remember when he was actually drafted. I mean
Speaker 1: he didn't play. He didn't play a lot of football
Speaker 1: at all. He played played basketball. Turned out to be
Speaker 1: a great player. I mean, doesn't always work. Jimmy Graham worked,
Speaker 1: it didn't work, but I mean, you know, I think
Speaker 1: I think he he made expectations. You know, he can
Speaker 1: even say exceeded them because he actually played in a game.
Speaker 1: He learned how to do it and played in a
Speaker 1: game and he wasn't great, but he played something. He
Speaker 1: caught a couple of passes. He was a good preseason player.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's fun to talk about while it lasted.
Speaker 1: Would I still wish they would have tried him at
Speaker 1: a different position and just given that a try, because
Speaker 1: he just didn't have the talent And I know he
Speaker 1: played basketball and all that, but he just didn't have
Speaker 1: the talent and the body flexibility to play that position
Speaker 1: at tight end. So I regret them not giving him
Speaker 1: a chance at another spot. Maybe he would have performed
Speaker 1: better there. But yeah, that's a total experiment. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think offensive line. I mean, it's just that's what I
Speaker 1: wish he would have done. His offensive line. I think
Speaker 1: he could have been a Yeah, they're really good. You
Speaker 1: look at the guy and the name parsation right now. No,
Speaker 1: but that's another example. But the guy ended up in Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: came from Buffalo, who's still playing for Philadelphia now. He
Speaker 1: was a guy that that originally was a that kind
Speaker 1: of athlete. I think it was a tight end, so
Speaker 1: Don Andrews, No, I mean Jason Peters. Jason Peters, he
Speaker 1: was originally a tight end, right, Yeah, well yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean he went to Arkansas, he was originally defensive end
Speaker 1: until they needed him to be tied end and you
Speaker 1: know the level of athleticism exactly right, and turned into
Speaker 1: a really really good left tackle, right, So you're right, yeah, Ish,
Speaker 1: I mean, it will be on that ballot. I don't
Speaker 1: know if he gets it, but he'll be on that ballot.
Speaker 1: So so yeah, you're right. It could have turned into
Speaker 1: something completely different. But I think everybody was hoping that
Speaker 1: this turns into go ahead, yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry, No,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say everybody was hoping this will turn
Speaker 1: into the next tight end that used to be a
Speaker 1: basketball player. Yeah, because that was you know, that's kind
Speaker 1: of been the m O. The problem is is that
Speaker 1: Jason Peters, Jeremy Parnell, those guys that they want to
Speaker 1: figure out a way to stay in the league and
Speaker 1: on their body types a little different too. Um, the
Speaker 1: guys that probably should have done that but didn't. Rico Gathers,
Speaker 1: you can make the case for Martellis Bennett. I think
Speaker 1: Martell's Bennet could have been one of the greatest offensive
Speaker 1: tackle because he was a good blocker, really good blocker,
Speaker 1: and and and he showed at one year he showed
Speaker 1: he can get up to two ninety like in the
Speaker 1: off season, you know, uh, he could have he could
Speaker 1: have carried that weight. Well, he's been really good. But
Speaker 1: demeanor wise, we know Martellis, we know Rico offensive tackles
Speaker 1: and that's not No, that's not what they want to do.
Speaker 1: And that's okay, that's okay too, But I mean it's
Speaker 1: hard to convince them of you know, you know, this
Speaker 1: could be a star position. It's like they're not dunking
Speaker 1: over the goal post and making plays like that. But
Speaker 1: from a mentality standpoint, I don't know, not necessarily agree
Speaker 1: with that on Martellis because I do think ask him specifically,
Speaker 1: so this is I asked him specifically one time that
Speaker 1: and he goes like, I ain't gonna be no offensive
Speaker 1: tackling at me. I'm offensive tackles Like He's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not. I'm not that I'm And he
Speaker 1: played ten years as a tight end and made made
Speaker 1: a Pro Bowl and he's one of Super Bowl, is
Speaker 1: a contributor, you know, to the I think the Patriots.
Speaker 1: So he did it right. I'm just saying I think
Speaker 1: he could have been one of the better offensive tackles
Speaker 1: if he would have chosen that route this Hall of Famous. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I was gonna take the conversation somewhere else, completely off track.
Speaker 1: I took it to the two thousand and eight drafts.
Speaker 1: It's fine, but you were talking about offensive tackle and
Speaker 1: then wait, and it made me think of le Collins.
Speaker 1: Have you guys seen him recently, like in pictures, Like
Speaker 1: how different? Like he's lost a lot of weight, Like, yes,
Speaker 1: he looks so much slimmer right now. And I get
Speaker 1: and I see people commenting going back to how he was,
Speaker 1: Like what was it? Was it last year where they
Speaker 1: were talking about him getting here out of shape, a
Speaker 1: little overweight or something. But he's on a diet or
Speaker 1: something because he is slimmed down, for sure. I don't know.
Speaker 1: But well, I saw the pictures of the fishing, but
Speaker 1: I hadn't. I didn't notice him being slimmer. And maybe
Speaker 1: it's just kind of angles or whatever, but close, but
Speaker 1: he he's supposed to some where he's like dressed up
Speaker 1: or you know, a little shorts and type. Yeah he's
Speaker 1: wearing little shorts. Well not that little, but you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. It fitted close. Now you can tell
Speaker 1: how much slimmer his right now compared to what you're
Speaker 1: used to seeing him. I thought that was a little
Speaker 1: unfair that that that happened last year, as you've been
Speaker 1: talking about him being overweight, now that he had hip
Speaker 1: surgery that ended his season. If you have hip surgery,
Speaker 1: if you need hip surgery, that means you have a
Speaker 1: hip problem. And if you have a hip problem, you're
Speaker 1: probably not running sprints. I mean, you're not walking, you're
Speaker 1: not doing anything. So his body type is one that
Speaker 1: if he sits around probably too much, he's not gonna
Speaker 1: be He's not gonna look that great. So, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: probably out of shape because he needs hip surgery, you know.
Speaker 1: And and that's what happens, and it happens in the media,
Speaker 1: and why is he not playing? Then you hear it
Speaker 1: and report the next thing. You know, you got this
Speaker 1: image that he's sitting there watching the prices right, eat
Speaker 1: and twinkies all summer when he's really that's not the case.
Speaker 1: Snickers whatever, it's a sponsorship joke. Don't worry about it
Speaker 1: all right, let's let's move on. I do think we
Speaker 1: have a couple of minutes where we can talk about
Speaker 1: maybe the first round pick of twenty seventeen one tackled
Speaker 1: Charlton what does he land for? You? Didn't make it
Speaker 1: through his first contract, did end up in Kansas City,
Speaker 1: was hurt last year. We still don't know what the
Speaker 1: rest of his career will be. But he made he
Speaker 1: got a couple of sacks. I want to say in
Speaker 1: Kansas City, he had a couple of sacks here. There
Speaker 1: was some moments here where I was like, Okay, maybe
Speaker 1: he's gonna get it now, but never really quite got it,
Speaker 1: not enough for them to even keep him around for
Speaker 1: the end of his first contract. So where do you
Speaker 1: think he falls? I think he you know, he's one
Speaker 1: of those that he put all the meat on and
Speaker 1: the tour cream and guacamole and everything, and you ready
Speaker 1: to just drops. Dang it, that's where it went. Because
Speaker 1: it all looking good, look ready to go, right as
Speaker 1: you just take that bike, it just kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: falls apart. Doesn't mean don't eat it, I mean you
Speaker 1: still figure it out how to eat. It's just not
Speaker 1: what you kind of expected it to be. So anyways,
Speaker 1: I think he was like your typical first round pick.
Speaker 1: I've said this all along. If his name was John Charlton,
Speaker 1: I don't think he would have been picked that high.
Speaker 1: I don't. I think it was this Taco Michigan affects
Speaker 1: the scouting group. I know fans are like, oh Taco,
Speaker 1: but you think the scouting group cares about his name.
Speaker 1: So you put a last name on the jersey, and like,
Speaker 1: what would you worry about the first name. I think
Speaker 1: I think the whole thing. I think the whole mystique
Speaker 1: of him at all. I mean, he's got the high,
Speaker 1: he's got the look, he's got. The name is a
Speaker 1: lot of that. I think it just kind of goes
Speaker 1: into it. I think the fans at Michigan probably think
Speaker 1: he was better, and then I think even the coaches
Speaker 1: all that, and then yeah, you look at the scouting,
Speaker 1: you see the plays. But I just I just think,
Speaker 1: you know, he gets down to it. He just he
Speaker 1: wasn't that good. Yeah, I do think names. I think
Speaker 1: that affects a lot of it. I really do the scouting.
Speaker 1: I think I'm not talking about just the scouting just
Speaker 1: like the Cowboys evaluating him. I'm talking about his whole
Speaker 1: mystique from the time he's in Michigan and all that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. I think it does in a in
Speaker 1: a weird way, I do. I believe that. Okay, that's fair,
Speaker 1: but I mean he didn't he didn't. He definitely didn't
Speaker 1: perform like your first round pick should be. And they
Speaker 1: wanted him out of here. I mean, like, all the way,
Speaker 1: do you put him in the bus category he's got, Yes,
Speaker 1: he's got to be. He's got to be a bus.
Speaker 1: They didn't even want him in on the team for
Speaker 1: a couple of years, I mean, to finish out of
Speaker 1: his contract, just like, let's get rid of this guy.
Speaker 1: So that that tells me all I need to know
Speaker 1: that that. Yeah, I mean they didn't even want him
Speaker 1: around it. They thought they were better off without him.
Speaker 1: So yeah, as a first round pick, Amber, Uh can't
Speaker 1: we use bust on this? Yeah? Okay, but uh po, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And to be fair, to be fair, he just didn't
Speaker 1: fit in, not just on the field, just in general
Speaker 1: with the locker room. He just did not fit in
Speaker 1: with the group. And I guarantee you that affected just
Speaker 1: his overall performance if there was even gonna be some
Speaker 1: kind of growth and development. I mean mentally, that has
Speaker 1: to affect you when you just don't fit in with
Speaker 1: your own group that you're supposed to be working with,
Speaker 1: And I think that has a lot to do with
Speaker 1: it as well. But yeah, it just it wasn't good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the damning part is you got a first
Speaker 1: round pick that you decide midway through his first contract. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're better off without him, not that we're gonna keep developing,
Speaker 1: not that he's gonna just not be active, Like literally,
Speaker 1: we're better off with him not on our team. That's
Speaker 1: when you get to that term bust in my opinion,
Speaker 1: because no one and no one's wildest expectations do they
Speaker 1: say I'm going to spend the first round pick on
Speaker 1: someone he won't make us through his first contract. I've
Speaker 1: seen first round picks that don't play, they don't start,
Speaker 1: but that I mean when you're off the team, that's
Speaker 1: a whole different level. And for me, that's it's very
Speaker 1: clear that this was a bust pick. This may have
Speaker 1: been one of the worst pick the Cowboys have had
Speaker 1: from that standpoint of a first round pick, that doesn't
Speaker 1: even make it through the first contract. And like I
Speaker 1: said before, sometimes you it's not just about the player
Speaker 1: that you were here and what you weren't, but it's
Speaker 1: the players that were on the table and we're drafted
Speaker 1: right behind you at the same position like a T. J.
Speaker 1: Watt and you know, performing extremely well. And that's why
Speaker 1: then it goes back to like current coaches and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, when when McCarthy says, and and and Mike
Speaker 1: Nolan says, and then of course now Dan quinn when
Speaker 1: they say, you know, we're gonna run multiple schemes, Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: that might be harder to get them all on the
Speaker 1: field and figure it all out, you know, and do that.
Speaker 1: But if if a t. J. Watt is sitting there
Speaker 1: with Tako Charlton and you're over here telling the media
Speaker 1: that we can play multiple schemes, then you better get
Speaker 1: the damn better football player like t. J. Watt. Don't
Speaker 1: tell me some crap that he can't fit in your scheme,
Speaker 1: because now you said your scheme could get anybody in here.
Speaker 1: So that's where I hope we see a difference, is
Speaker 1: we don't see those type of situations where he doesn't
Speaker 1: really fit our scheme because I thought the scheme could
Speaker 1: fit at anyone And that's one of the reasons why
Speaker 1: I'm personally a believer in never drafting for a scheme
Speaker 1: because there's too much turnover in the NFL when it
Speaker 1: comes to coaches, players, the whole nine. So you don't
Speaker 1: know if you're going to be in the same scheme two, three,
Speaker 1: four years down the road. And so for me, I'm like,
Speaker 1: give me the better football player and then coach figure
Speaker 1: out how to use them. If you got to change
Speaker 1: up some things in order to get the best out
Speaker 1: of that player. That's what coaching is, figure out how
Speaker 1: to put your people in the best position to be successful.
Speaker 1: All right, we appreciate you guys, Johns. We'll be back
Speaker 1: next week. Well, we'll finish up this list. Will so
Speaker 1: far we can get on twenty seventeen, maybe we get
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, and then maybe we'll have to finish the
Speaker 1: rest of it the week of the draft. We'll figure
Speaker 1: all that out. What day. Back next week so i'lsow
Speaker 1: us down even more. We'll see how that goes. We
Speaker 1: appreciate you joining us still there. For Nick eaven and
Speaker 1: Amber Garcia, I am Derek eagleson This has been The
Speaker 1: Break live on Dallas Cowboys dot Com Radio. This has
Speaker 1: been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys Football Club. How