1 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, and welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports Podcast. 2 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Lee KLASKAUS senior freight, transportation and logistics 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence, Bloomberg's in house research arm of 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: almost five hundred analysts and strategists. Before diving in a 5 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: little public service announcement, your support is instrumental to keep 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: bringing great guests onto the podcast, like the one we 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,159 Speaker 1: have today. If you haven't already, please do take a 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: moment to follow rate and share the Talking Transport podcast 9 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: with your friends and family. We really appreciate your support. Also, 10 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: if you have any ideas for a future episode or 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: just want to talk transports, please hit me up on 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal, on LinkedIn, or on Twitter at Logistics League. 13 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: We're delighted to have Harmon Chima, CEO of Chima Freight Lines, 14 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: the thirty eighth largest four hire truckload carrier according to 15 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: Talking Transports. Harmon has been in the trucking business since 16 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: two thousand and six. He is also a board member 17 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: of the Washington Trucking Associations. Thanks for joining the Talking 18 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: Transports podcast, Harmon. 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on. Lee gcited to be here. 20 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great to have you harmon. Thanks so much. 21 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: So Chima Freightlines might not be a household name. I 22 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: know you're you're kind of like a regional carrier. Can 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: you provide us with some insights into the organization? 24 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so. Chiema Freightlines was started in two thousand 25 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 2: and six by myself and my dad. My dad was 26 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 2: a truck driver owner operator at the time. He'd been 27 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 2: driving since the mid nineties, and my uncle had already 28 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: been in the business with his own authority owner operator. 29 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: Told my dad to get his authority and he can 30 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 2: start hauling for himself, and asked me when I was 31 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 2: in you know, grade ten at the time, fifteen years old, 32 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: to see if I can help my dad book some 33 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: loads after school. And you know, so, we already had 34 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 2: a truck, bought a reefer, got our dot, and I 35 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: created tumor of freightlines and had no idea where we 36 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 2: were going. Grew up around trucks because my dad had 37 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: already been an owner operator and had trucks for a 38 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 2: number of years already. Some my brother and I, you know, 39 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 2: going out on Saturdays helping maintain the truck and just 40 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 2: riding along in the summers whenever possible. You know, you 41 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: could say it's in the blood a little bit. But 42 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: when we started the company, it was just a one truck, 43 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: one trailer operation. My dad was our first driver, you 44 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 2: can say, I was our first dispatcher, and I was 45 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: just booking them a few loads a week after school. 46 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: And by the time I graduated high school, we're up 47 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: to thirteen trucks, combination of some owner operators and some 48 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 2: company trucks, mostly mostly company trucks. And like like the business, 49 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 2: like the people part of it, and I knew there 50 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: was an opportunity to be able to have a good provider, 51 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: especially on the West coast. Being based up in the 52 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 2: Washington State in northern California is where we spent most 53 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 2: of our time in the earlier years, an opportunity and 54 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: started to grow the business. So that's kind of the 55 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: history on how we started. 56 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: That's a great story. And so many large trucking companies 57 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: start with one person in one truck, you know, like 58 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: the Warners and the JB Hunts of the world, and 59 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, the the Chiam of freight lines as well. 60 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: So that's a great story for you said you started 61 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: at fourteen, that's that's pretty young. 62 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to be actually turning thirty four tomorrow 63 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: and I'm gonna have just over eighteen years of experience. 64 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: I wish, I wish I knew that earlier. I would 65 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: have gotten you something happy birthday. So so, so you 66 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: mentioned you started, you know, at in your regional carrier 67 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: Washington Northern California. Can you talk a little bit about 68 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: you know, your reach today. 69 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, So we started out as a power only carrier 70 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: for a couple larger fleets, pulling their trailers, working with 71 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: some local brokers, very very regional in northern California I five, 72 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: and then we started to go off on our own. 73 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: And I five was the first thing we knew, right, 74 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 2: I lived, I lived in most of the all three 75 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: of the states on the West coast, and so that 76 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 2: to me was home, and I knew the demographics and 77 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: the geography. So we started out just an I five carrier. 78 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 2: Today we expand. We're probably one of the largest carriers 79 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 2: on the I five today as far as the truck 80 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 2: pland goes. And then we have a logistics arm that's 81 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,239 Speaker 2: been growing as well. They're doing about thirty five hundred 82 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 2: and four thousand loads a month right now, and they're 83 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: reaches all over the forty eight states. 84 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: And today, how many company trucks do you have today? 85 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 2: We have just under five hundred company trucks and some 86 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 2: owner operators on top of that. So we're running about 87 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: five hundred company or five hundred total trucks and about 88 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: two thousand trailers. 89 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: And you know, are you heavily concentrated with one or 90 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: two customers or do you have a very diversified book 91 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: of business? 92 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was something I made sure from the beginning 93 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: that we're going to be very diversified and not be 94 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: I've seen too many companies fail that had one or 95 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 2: two big, big customers and they go out of business 96 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 2: and they take them right with them. So I was 97 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: intentional on making sure not only our customer base was diverse, 98 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: but our commodity base as well. So we're hauling a 99 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 2: lot of food, beverage, paper, and retail goods and that's 100 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: been and then home improvement as well, So that's been 101 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 2: kind of the bread and butter of what we do. 102 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 2: All trucklow drive in for now. 103 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: And it's all for higher. Do you do any dedicated routes? 104 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 2: We do a little bit of dedicated not a whole lot, 105 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 2: but that's definitely a business unit that we're going to 106 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 2: be looking to expand in the near future. 107 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: And more on Chima. So has the growth really been 108 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: driven organically or have you guys been done any m 109 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: and a activity. 110 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 2: Today it's been all organic, especially on the trucking side. 111 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 2: We acquired a smaller brokerage in Missoula, Montana in twenty 112 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 2: twenty one just to kind of get a feel for 113 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 2: what's going on. It was an operator that I've known 114 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: for many years, made a deal and now we have 115 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: an office there as well, and they service a little 116 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 2: bit of Canada as well. But the future, we're looking 117 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: to not only double what we're doing today in the 118 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: next six to seven years, but we're going to do 119 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 2: it organically with a combination of some acquisitions if they 120 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: make sense. 121 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: Right, And I guess the acquisitions would be more on 122 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: the broker side. 123 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: Actually, we're going to be focusing on the acquisitions on 124 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: the on the trucking side. 125 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: Oh okay, very good. And so you are a private company, 126 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: so I don't know what you really want to share 127 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: with us today, but can you give us some any 128 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: indications of you know, your financial performance during during the 129 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: last couple of years, because I know it's been tough 130 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: for a lot of truckers out there. 131 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely this this year, I would say the last 132 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 2: sixteen months have been have been tough. And we're no different, right, 133 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: We're not sheltered by any means from the market, so 134 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,239 Speaker 2: it's it's definitely been tougher. Our company is doing about 135 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy five million in revenue on both 136 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: units and growing as well. But obviously the bottom lines 137 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 2: have shrunk for for many for higher fleets, and but 138 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 2: I think I think the light at the end of 139 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 2: the end of the tunnel is near. I think I 140 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 2: think it's been long enough and it's going to start 141 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: to turn back around. But that's that's that's what we've 142 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: been doing overall. You know, everybody made a lot of 143 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: money during COVID and and that peak, and we were smart. 144 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 2: We we paid down debt as much as we could 145 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,239 Speaker 2: and positioned ourselves for the downturn. We we just didn't 146 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 2: hope the downturn was going to be as as long 147 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: as has been as it's been, right, But overall, we're 148 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: we're financially sound company. We've got terminals that majority of 149 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 2: them we own. 150 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, during during this downturn, are you 151 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: still able to generate a positive profit or is it 152 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: uh mostly break even? Are you losing some money right now? 153 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: In all transparency, the truck line has been break even 154 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: to losing money, but the brokerage has been helping helping 155 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 2: keep the lights on, you can say. Right, So, which 156 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 2: is why both business and sort of extremely important to 157 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: our business. And when we talk to customers we tell 158 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 2: them this is why we need both units so we 159 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: can have that flexibility and be able to write out 160 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: the ups and downs right right. 161 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: And you mentioned you know you're seeing the light at 162 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: the end of the tunnel. Can you talk about you know, 163 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: exactly what you're seeing that gives you that kind of 164 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: confidence that maybe the worst is behind us. 165 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, you know, we're almost in November and the 166 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: bid season is in full swing and a lot of 167 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 2: bids are coming out right now. So this is the 168 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 2: time to be talking to customers and looking at, you know, 169 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 2: the future and kind of predicting when those bids go 170 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: live what it's going to look like. So just seeing 171 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 2: some of the earnings reports that have been coming out 172 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 2: this week from the larger carriers. It seems like there's 173 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 2: there's some positive movement there from Q two as well, 174 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: and we've seen some of that. But personally, I can 175 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 2: tell you the last few weeks, we've been seeing more 176 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 2: tenders coming across to us that we're not primary on, 177 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: we're backups on, which tells me that tender rejection is 178 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: starting to pick back up a little bit. And so 179 00:08:57,679 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: we're starting to see more loads flowing our way or 180 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 2: so to see more pricing opportunities come our way. And 181 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: we're starting to, you know, quite frankly, see more bids 182 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,959 Speaker 2: that we had been on earlier this year that we 183 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 2: were not awarded starting to come back and customers asking 184 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: us to relook at those opportunities. So those are signals 185 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 2: for me that it's starting to turn back around a 186 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: little bit. I don't think it's going to turn back quickly, 187 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 2: but at least there are better conversations. Right, we're not 188 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 2: talking about rate reductions and you know, sell in our 189 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 2: way to just hold flat anymore. 190 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: Right, Right, So so when you say, like a customer 191 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: comes back to so they didn't stick with you because 192 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: you weren't willing to go to be the lowest price 193 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,599 Speaker 1: because you have to obviously make a return. Why do 194 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: they come back. Do they come back for service to 195 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: what makes them come back to you guys? 196 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely So most of our core and strategic customers 197 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: that we work well, we have a great relationship with, 198 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 2: we were able to pull the line and for the 199 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 2: most part main the business that we had and that 200 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 2: we were operating, we had to flex a little bit 201 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 2: here and there, but for the most part, we were 202 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 2: able to hold the line. Now, any new business that 203 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 2: we were trying to go after, you know, we had 204 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 2: to look at our cost and bid accordingly, and we 205 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 2: weren't so successful in winning that and so, but that 206 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: business that you know that we're potentially going after, that 207 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: we were not awarded because of you know, they had 208 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 2: lower pricing and whatnot. Maybe those bids are starting to fail. 209 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 2: Those awards those brokers or carriers are not able to 210 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,839 Speaker 2: honor them. We're starting to see those opportunities come back 211 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 2: to us, and that has to do with service. A 212 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: lot of the other things that we're noticing are a 213 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: lot of lanes that brokerages had controlled at one point 214 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 2: are starting to come back because they're looking for more 215 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 2: asset based providers or providers that have assets, so they 216 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 2: know the skin in the game is a little bit 217 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 2: different and just from a and a lot of that 218 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 2: has to do with the security and the fraud issues 219 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 2: that we've been having, especially this year, right, that's been 220 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 2: a big, big concern for shippers. 221 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fraud has been Some of the stories I 222 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: hear anecdotally are crazy. Do you have any like wild stories, 223 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: whether you know it's company specific or you know, because 224 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: I know you're active in the you know, in the 225 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: States industry group, like what you're hearing from the members 226 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: from the Washington Trucking Associations, you have any stories against share? 227 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: You know, We've been fortunate that we've been safer, but 228 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 2: for the most part, like most of the frauds happening 229 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: with the brokerages right even our brokerage. For example, there 230 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 2: was a load down in southern California that we had 231 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: broken to a carrier and somehow that another carrier had 232 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 2: gotten that same pickup number, even though the carrier we 233 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 2: tender too was swearing up and down that they didn't 234 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 2: give it to anybody else and all those things, but 235 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: the warehouse and then they had picked it up, and 236 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: then the actual carrier that actually hold it right. The 237 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,719 Speaker 2: victim in this case was told to take it to 238 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 2: another warehouse in southern California. By the time the police 239 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 2: got there, it was already gone. 240 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: Right. 241 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: It's product, and that's happening over and over, especially in 242 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 2: southern California. So we saw that happening. We worked with 243 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 2: our customers to see if we can lock down the 244 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 2: warehouses a little bit more and asked them to check 245 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: what trucks are actually being loaded. And that's been a 246 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 2: little bit of a challenge trying to go all the 247 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 2: way down to there because they're using four four pls 248 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 2: and whatnot as well. Right. But the other thing lee 249 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: that kind of caught me by surprise was we had 250 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 2: some trailers that were stolen that were newer trailers twenty 251 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 2: twenty twos and threes, and these trailers got stolen and 252 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 2: they got debadged and resold to X y Z carrier 253 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 2: and rebranded within like a week. And we typically have 254 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 2: our trailer tracking hidden somewhere so and we have cargo sensors, 255 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 2: so they were able to take off one of the devices, 256 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 2: but didn't realize there was a second one. That's how 257 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 2: we were able to catch it. We show up you 258 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 2: can still see the ghost letters, but it's got a 259 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 2: different name on it, and that carrier that name is 260 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: on it is showing us bill of sales and everything 261 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: that they had purchased it from this other company. So 262 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: I thought that was pretty random, and I mean that's 263 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 2: a bigger case that's we're investigating now. But I mean 264 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 2: there was other larger fleets involved that have had you know, 265 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: also we're victims of part of this that where their 266 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: trailers were stolen as well. 267 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 1: So so you mentioned, you know, using these technologies, these 268 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: sensors to track your trailers. Are there any other technologies 269 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: that uh, you know, Chima Freight Lines is employing to 270 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: protect itself some fraud, whether you know, whether it's on 271 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: the asset side of the brokers side. 272 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, So tech to me, everybody talks about tech and 273 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: innovation and all that, and logistics, right, I'm very candid. 274 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: I guess maybe I'm a trucker. First end of the day. 275 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 2: We gotta it's it's a truck and a load that 276 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 2: we got to deliver the freight, and we got to 277 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 2: deliver on time, right, and we need our drivers. So 278 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 2: all the technology we use has definitely improved tremendously from 279 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: the early years, which I would say, Dinas, you know, 280 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 2: the dinosaur years of trucking from in cap technology and 281 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 2: just like cargo sensors and YR checks and overall, GPS 282 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: has become you know, kind of the new norm right right. 283 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: You talked about, you know, the trailers being stolen. You know, 284 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about your fleet? What 285 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: does your fleet look like? What's the average age of 286 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: your tractors? 287 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew you were gonna ask me that, so 288 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 2: I went to my cfo's office this morning and said, Hey, 289 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: what's our current fleet age right now? So our fleet 290 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: is at one point six years old on our tractor 291 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: fleet and our trailer fleet's just a little bit over 292 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 2: three years old. 293 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: Do you guys specialize and use like, you know, one OEM. 294 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 2: So before before the pandemic, we were using primarily one OEM, 295 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: and but because of just demand and capacity and what 296 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: they were able to deliver, we've had we've had to 297 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: go to two other OEMs and so currently we have 298 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: Peter Belts and freightliners and Ken Worsen our fleet. But 299 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 2: we're going to maintain just just two of those OEMs 300 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: long term because it's just easier on the shops and 301 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 2: parks and maintenance and all those things, right, gotcha? 302 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: So you know you mentioned you operate a lot in California. 303 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: California has different regulatory rules when it comes to emissions. 304 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: What's going on with your fleet in California? Do you 305 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: have evs or do you How are you operating there? 306 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: Currently? We don't have any electric vehicles on the road. 307 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 2: We have five electric vehicles on order that we should 308 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 2: be receiving some point next year. But the regulations are there, right, 309 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 2: We're from natural gases and all that those don't count anymore. 310 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 2: You got to go EV to get that one hundred 311 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 2: zero emission, So especially for our fleets in California. So 312 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: we're working with our customers and our partners to team 313 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 2: up and look at routes that we can optimize and 314 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: use evs on. But it's a challenge, right. The infrastructure 315 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 2: isn't there. There's rolling blackouts in California. But we are 316 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 2: actively right now, We've got a fifteen acre term expansion 317 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: project that we're doing in Lather of California, which is 318 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 2: in northern California, and that's gonna have EV chargers and 319 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 2: that's gonna you know, be the house those five electric 320 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 2: trucks coming in next year. 321 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: And so you could your regional carrier, are are your 322 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: trucks like, are they in a yard every night or 323 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: are they are your drivers kind of on the road 324 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: and they're sleeping on the road and eventually they get 325 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: back home. 326 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 2: We've got drop yards and pretty much all the major 327 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 2: markets out in the Western States. But they're they're out there. 328 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 2: I mean, we're We're just like an OTR irregular route 329 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: carrier operating in these six or seven states on the 330 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: west right. So majority of our trucks are over the road. 331 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 2: But one thing is different, like our drivers for the 332 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: most part, aren't out two three weeks at a time. 333 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 2: Our drivers are home weekly. That's that's what we do. 334 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: You mentioned you had the five evs on order. So 335 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: if I'm a shipper and I'm in California, if I'm 336 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: using in if I'm if if my capacity provider is 337 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: using an EV truck, is that more expensive per then 338 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: using a traditional diesel truck puts to the costs? 339 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, we figured out the cost is anywhere from twenty 340 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 2: five to thirty five percent higher than the traditional diesel truck. 341 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: That's a lot yeah. Yeah, So what what do the 342 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: shippers say, like, are they doing it? Do they get 343 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: some sort of credit for doing it? 344 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, the bigger shippers are looking for green credits because 345 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 2: of their sustainability goals and also because of regulation and 346 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 2: some of the things they're being forced to do. So 347 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: we're working together to you know, minimize costs. But they're 348 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 2: but also being a realist on hey, this is this 349 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 2: is what it is, right, So let's you guys want 350 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 2: to try it, let's go work together on it. Kind 351 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 2: of a thing, but it's definitely a challenge for everybody. 352 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: I don't think the industry is ready for it by 353 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 2: any means. 354 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: Right, And so you know, you said you have five 355 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: trucks on order, like down the road, I don't know 356 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: if you have like a one or two year Outlook, 357 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: what percentage of your fleet do you think is going 358 00:17:58,800 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: to be. 359 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 2: Ev We're definitely gonna start with our California local fleets, right, 360 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 2: And but the thing is we're hauling a lot of 361 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 2: beverage and food, which is you know, big and heavy 362 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: del Yeah, and so we lose a lot of payloads. 363 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 2: So at the end of the day, is you know, 364 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: ten trucks are now going to be potentially twelve trucks 365 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 2: on the road, right or twelve shipments. So how much 366 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 2: are we really gaining in some of those scenarios, right? Right? 367 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: But yeah, so Southern California and northern California are gonna 368 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 2: be two focal points for us to focus on and 369 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: try to see what we need to do and what 370 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 2: we can do to not only just survive in that 371 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 2: market from an EV standpoint, but something that's actually gonna 372 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 2: work and. 373 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: Outside of the EV mandate. Is there anything else about 374 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: operating California that makes it a little tricky relative to 375 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:49,959 Speaker 1: other states? 376 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, So we don't. We're our home base is 377 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 2: Washington State, so our registrations and everything, and we operate 378 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 2: a lot in California, but we're not based in California, 379 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 2: and technically so because of that, we don't have to. 380 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 2: We're still an outside carrier coming in. But I know 381 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: a lot about California just because we do so much 382 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,239 Speaker 2: business there. The regulations that they've put on, you know, 383 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 2: the Act, the advance cleaned fleets and all that they've 384 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 2: put on. The dealers now that they have to sell 385 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 2: I believe it's they have to sell one electric vehicle 386 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 2: in order to sell three diesel trucks. And that's law 387 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 2: January one. So you know those kind of things are 388 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 2: how are you going to do that? Right? So they've 389 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 2: they've they've limited the dealers to be able to sell 390 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 2: and yeah, as long as those trucks are registered in California. 391 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 2: And I think Oregon was doing the same thing, but 392 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: they just last week kicked the can another year. Washington 393 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 2: State's right behind them, but they have a little bit 394 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 2: looser regulation than that for now, and so but we'll 395 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 2: see what happens. 396 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: All right. I guess it's always a moving goalpost, right. 397 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, end of the day. I mean, what 398 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: we need to make sure we educate the customers are 399 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: the public on is if there's gonna be you know, 400 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 2: twenty thirty percent increased costs and operating that we're gonna 401 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 2: pay for that somehow, right. 402 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: Right, yep, everyone has to have buy in if if 403 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: we're all going to do it, that's right. So you 404 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: know you mentioned your drivers there, they're home probably a 405 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: little more than a typical over the road trucker. You know, 406 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: what is the driver market? Now? You know, people like 407 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: to give me flack, you know, I think there's always 408 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: a driver shortage issue just because of the churn, the 409 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 1: natural churn in the industry. Obviously capacity is pretty loose 410 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: right now, but is it is it easy to find 411 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: drivers right now? 412 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: So we've got a really good reputation out there on 413 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,959 Speaker 2: the road with our drivers, and today we're nearly one 414 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 2: hundred percent seated, and we've been able to maintain that 415 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: for a long time. But it's also a very loose market, 416 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 2: right so as things start to tighten up a little bit, 417 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 2: it's gonna get it's gonna get tighter, and we'll have 418 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 2: to get a little bit more aggressive on our recruiting. 419 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, you know, we 420 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 2: don't have we don't have a training program, we don't 421 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 2: have any of those things yet. To work at Chima, 422 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 2: you have to have a pretty clean record, have to 423 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 2: be really safe, and have to have at least twelve 424 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 2: months of verifiable experience from a republe company with a 425 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 2: clean MVR. So we only you know, our application process 426 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 2: is pretty long, and and to be able to get in, 427 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 2: you know, we're pretty picky, right and the bigger we get, 428 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 2: we know, not necessarily we have to loosen up, but 429 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 2: we have to do things a little bit faster, right 430 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 2: to be able to compete. So, but our home weekly 431 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 2: and never more than two to three days away from 432 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 2: home kind of a model has been working pretty well. 433 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 2: So as we continue to grow into different states, we 434 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 2: want to make sure our terminal networks that we have, 435 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 2: you know that we want to grow our terminal networks 436 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 2: in those states as well to kind of be able 437 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 2: to maintain that quality of life for the driver because 438 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 2: the end of the day, I mean, I don't want 439 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 2: my kids to be drivers, to be out there two 440 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 2: to three weeks at a time. I mean, I'm not 441 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 2: a driver myself. But it's a tough job, right, It's tough. 442 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: Very much. So it's a very demanding job. It's an 443 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 1: underappreciated job. And if any truckers are listening, thank you 444 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: for delivering all the great stuff that we that that 445 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: we get delivered to our houses every day. You know, 446 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: whether it's a can of Sota, can of beer, pretzels, 447 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: a sofa, most things, most everything comes on a truck. 448 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 2: So yeah, the crazy part is Lee is a lot 449 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 2: of the drivers didn't plan on being drivers. That was 450 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 2: kind of a hey, I try to do this out 451 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 2: of college or I try to do this and then 452 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 2: don't really work out, and my friend was driving a 453 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 2: truck instead, why don't you try it out? So we're 454 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 2: not something where they come out of school and they're like, 455 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 2: I want to go be a driver, right, It's always something. 456 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 2: It's kind of a fallback career, and most of them 457 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 2: stay because they don't know what else to do. 458 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: Right, right, And some of that is because, you know, 459 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: the restrictions on when someone can do interstate you know, 460 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,239 Speaker 1: can drive a truck between states, you have to be 461 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: a twenty one or older due to federal laws, and 462 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: so that precludes a lot of people that are maybe 463 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: leaving high school and looking for a trade. You know, 464 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: they probably found one by the time they're twenty one. 465 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: So to your point, you don't get those super young 466 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: people into the industry, and then you know, you get 467 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: people that are maybe trying a second career, reinventing themselves. 468 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: That I've been to a number of trucking schools in 469 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: the average age I would say, or like late thirties, 470 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: early forties of the people in those schools, at least 471 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: the ones that I've been to anecdotally. 472 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 2: Yep, that's right. 473 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned that, you know, the market is 474 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: you know, pretty loose right now, so it's a little 475 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: easier to find drivers. Why has the market been so 476 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: loose for so long? You know, what's what's been driving that? 477 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 1: From your vantage point. 478 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,719 Speaker 2: There's been you know, although the truck correction and the 479 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 2: and this and the excess capacity hasn't left the market 480 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: as fast as the market needed, right, there's still been 481 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 2: a lot of carriers that left. And another thing is 482 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 2: there's been there was a lot of drivers that were 483 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 2: company drivers that became owner operators during the last big 484 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 2: you know, the pandemic and that market, right, and so 485 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 2: they were never I hate to say it this way, 486 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 2: but they never had They should have never been owner operators, right, 487 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 2: And they're struggling with that now because the business units 488 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 2: or the business models they had built were based on 489 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 2: those high paying right rates and now they don't know 490 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 2: how to survive. And so I think a lot of 491 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 2: them are parking their trucks selling them, which is why 492 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: the used truck market has gone down the gutter as well. 493 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 2: Are coming back and looking for opportunities to drive and 494 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 2: you know, get benefits again and some of those things 495 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 2: that they missed for the last few years. 496 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's uh, that that's for sure. I mean, 497 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: you know, in the peak it was four fifty to 498 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: five dollars a mile, right now we're at a buck fifty, 499 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: so a very different business model. 500 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it's been. It's been incredible to see. 501 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: So, you know, it sounds like you have a lot 502 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: of consumer retail related customers. Are they telling you anything 503 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: interesting about this coming peak season? 504 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 2: Not necessarily. We've had some being on the West coast, 505 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: we've got some diversions. Some big retailers have done from 506 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 2: the East coast ports to the West coast ahead of 507 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 2: the strike just to make sure. Although the strike didn't 508 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 2: last that long, they got ahead of it, right, They 509 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 2: didn't want to risk it. So we have seen we've 510 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 2: seen Seattle and northern California and southern California really you know, 511 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 2: get busier because of that, because of the diversions, and 512 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 2: they can't divert them back fast enough. I think they're 513 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 2: locked in. We've seen that kind of a little bit 514 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: of a surge, but it's it's kind of like a 515 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 2: fake surge, right, It's it's more of a golden weight, 516 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 2: and they got to get the freight where they need 517 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 2: to get it. So but overall, the peak hasn't been crazy. 518 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 2: It's it's definitely gone up a little bit, but nothing 519 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 2: nothing crazy like we've seen in the past for sure. 520 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: Okay, are you seeing, you know, any any project work 521 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: coming your way to last year? 522 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 2: No? No, Actually we haven't seen too much or too 523 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 2: many projects necessarily, but we are starting to see more 524 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,719 Speaker 2: conversations about, hey, we feel like next year is not 525 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 2: going to be deflationary. It's gonna be there's gonna be 526 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 2: some inflation and rate which you know, I tell them, 527 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: I could have told you that, but so we're starting 528 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 2: to have those conversations already, like, hey, what's it looking 529 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 2: like when you know, should we do? That's the other 530 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 2: thing is a lot of these shippers were doing annual bids. 531 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 2: They converted to six month bids or three month bids 532 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 2: during the last few seasons, and now they're considering do 533 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 2: we do another six month bid and then another six 534 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 2: month bid and then go back to twelve months, or 535 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 2: do we go to an annual bid or And for 536 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 2: some shippers, like the seasonal bevers shippers, six month bids 537 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,239 Speaker 2: actually work out a little bit better and we can 538 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 2: have better rates as well, depending on the season, right, 539 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 2: as long as they don't try to change the network 540 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 2: every six months. 541 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: And besides, you know the soft rate environment, what are 542 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: the other bigger, bigger challenges that you're facing as an 543 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: owner of a truckload carrier. 544 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 2: You know, we talked about soft rates, but increasing costs. 545 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: Costs are still going up. The new engines with the 546 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 2: new EPA REGs are going to be eighteen to twenty 547 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 2: thousand dollars more expensive, is what I'm hearing. It's like, 548 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 2: where's that money going to come from? Right, We've wages 549 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 2: have with our current inflation. I don't think we're going 550 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 2: to go backwards on inflation necessarily. We can stop it, 551 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 2: maybe reduce it, but wages need to catch up and 552 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 2: all those things, right, So those are all in the future. 553 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's going to go back 554 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 2: to the driver shortage like you talked about. It's things 555 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 2: start getting busier again. People are already starting to leave 556 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 2: the industry. From driver standpoint, so that's always top of 557 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 2: mind for me, and from a talent standpoint is where 558 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 2: do we get the next driver manager? Where do we 559 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 2: get the next drivers? Because as much as hard as 560 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 2: the driver job is, the driver manager job is pretty 561 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 2: thankless too, right. They're always it's a burnout job, and 562 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 2: it's always been that way. And I'm on the board 563 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 2: of a pretty good conference trucking profitability Strategies, and we 564 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 2: got some some big, big dogs and heavy hitters on 565 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 2: that board, and I just asked him, I said, hey, 566 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 2: is your driver manager and dispatch your job as a 567 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 2: destination job or is it a burnout And they all 568 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 2: agree that it was a burnout job. I said, well, 569 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 2: what are we doing about this as an industry to 570 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 2: make it better? Right, Because you're they're talking to drivers 571 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 2: that are usually burned out or not getting home with 572 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 2: they need to get home and some of those things. 573 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 2: And yeah, some of the companies can do a better 574 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 2: job with that. But at the same time, you're at 575 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,959 Speaker 2: the mercy of the customer, traffic, you know, production, all 576 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 2: of those things. 577 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: Right. 578 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: It's it's the puzzle. It's playing chess with marbles every day, right. 579 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's everyone complaining to you, right and yelling 580 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: at you. So, yeah, that's got to be tough. Is 581 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: there is there a technology that you're excited about, whether 582 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: it's in your asset base or not. Asset based business. 583 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 2: I'm excited about some of the new AI that's coming 584 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: out that's that's been coming out from like our phone 585 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: systems and our you know, the co pilots necessarily and 586 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 2: some of those technologies to make our our job easier 587 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 2: for our frontline driver managers and dispatchers for the most part. 588 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 2: But at the same time, we upgraded our entire fleet 589 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 2: last year to new technology and in the INCAP for 590 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 2: the INCAP experience, and that's been day and night difference, 591 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 2: and and some of the technology we're able to put 592 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 2: on top of that has been awesome. So implementing that 593 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 2: and the training for that is definitely a challenge, right 594 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 2: but I'm excited about where we're going to go as 595 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 2: we kind of mature into that. So I think the 596 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 2: industry has moved the right way. The other part with 597 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 2: that is I've noticed a lot of these big vendors 598 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 2: that are spending money to develop all these great products 599 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 2: have been always focused on brokerage for the most part. 600 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 2: Maybe brokers spend more money and buy technology faster and 601 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 2: trucking companies don't. But they're starting to finally look at 602 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 2: trucking companies and find ways to help help the side 603 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 2: of the business as well. 604 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: So you mentioned, you know, you're mentioning the in cab 605 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: stuff that you just implemented. Could you give a little 606 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: more details, like are you talking about like cameras, Like 607 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: like what are you talking about? 608 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we went with the platform science. Platform Sciences 609 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 2: are vendor for our in cab tablets, for their elds, 610 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 2: their telematics, their dispatch software. And what we like about 611 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 2: that new technology is it's it's very open. We can 612 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: we can make changes in the office and push them 613 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 2: out to the trucks. We can add different apps to them. 614 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 2: They can do their cat scale apps and scale their 615 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 2: loads and see all that, get rid of the paper. 616 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 2: They can scan everything all at once, versus the old 617 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 2: you know, the old the qualcoms or the or the 618 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 2: people nets that used to be so just rigid and 619 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 2: stuck and you'd have to use their products. Right, So 620 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 2: we're able to finally hold on different camera systems, trailer 621 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 2: trucking systems and kind of integrate them all into one 622 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 2: and work together like it should have been. I always 623 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 2: says it's twenty twenty four, but we're so happy trucking 624 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 2: technology has moved into two thousand and four, right. 625 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: That's for sure, you know. And you were mentioning that 626 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: the brokerage business, So when you're how do you guys 627 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: communicate with the owner operators within the broker business? I mean, 628 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: or do you have your app? Is it like just 629 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: purely on the phone? How do you interact with drivers? 630 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 2: Our motto is easy to do business with? Right, So 631 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 2: if an owner operator or a small fleet wants to 632 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 2: want to talk on the phone, we'll talk on the phone. 633 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 2: If they want to use our app, they can use 634 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 2: our app. And but we've got all that. They can 635 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 2: see freight, they can book freight on the app, we 636 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 2: can send them loads on their app, and they can 637 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 2: do their updates and their calls on the app as well, 638 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 2: or we can call them and manually manually do that 639 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 2: on you know, over the phone as well. Right. 640 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: You know, in the in the beginning of you know, 641 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: our conversation, you mentioned that, you know, you started in 642 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: the business when you were fourteen with your dad. Do 643 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: you have any other family members right now that you're 644 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: working with or is it is it just you? Is 645 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: is your dad still involved? 646 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, So my dad's been retired for the last few years, 647 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 2: but my brother he's involved he's he's got all of 648 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 2: our maintenance and shops and keeping the fleet running. So 649 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 2: he's got the equipment side of the business. I've got 650 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 2: the operation size of it. 651 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, And how does that work you guys? You guys 652 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: see eye to eye or is there is there a 653 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of arguing at the Thanksgiving table? 654 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 2: We don't argue too much. You know, it's family's family. 655 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 2: You're always going to have some of those. But for 656 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 2: the most part we do pretty well. And as long 657 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 2: as we can kind of stay out of the way 658 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 2: on the day to day, it's a pretty good relationship. 659 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: And are any do you think you expect the third 660 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: generation to be involved or are they have an ex 661 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: rest and interest yet or are they just too young? 662 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 2: They're too young. I've got I've got a four year 663 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 2: old and a seven month old, so. 664 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: Well, put the seven month old to work, I mean, 665 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: come on. So, so, you know, you've had a pretty 666 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: interesting journey. You know, I really do love talking to 667 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: trucking companies, especially trucking companies like yourself that are started 668 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: with you know, an entrepreneur with one truck and they're 669 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: able to grow that business, you know significantly. You know, 670 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: like I said earlier, your company's now the thirty eighth 671 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: largest for higher truckload carrier. You know what has been 672 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: kind of inspirational to you as a as a as 673 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: a leader of a trucking company, you know, whether it's 674 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: a book that you've read or something that you might 675 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: want to share with us today. 676 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, I mean starting that young and trying 677 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 2: to grow the business. The company has to mature and 678 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 2: I had to mature, right, So that was a that 679 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 2: was a big thing. A lot of our growth came 680 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 2: over the last roughly ten years because we've spent the 681 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 2: first eight years growing up. You can say, right, both 682 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 2: company and myself and so, but just conferences and getting 683 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 2: to know people and networking. My my thing was always 684 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 2: I don't want to be the smartest person in the room. 685 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 2: I want to be the sponge and learn from everybody. 686 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 2: So I learned early too, you know, as as we 687 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 2: do in sales. I learned early to be persistent and 688 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 2: not annoying. I learned to make as many connections as possible, 689 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 2: and you utilize those connections and be there when they 690 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 2: need something and and and ask for that favor back 691 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 2: when I need something. So my first my first conference 692 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 2: I went to was Food Shippers of America and I 693 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 2: was twenty years old and and some of the friends 694 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 2: I made their you know, their presidents and CEOs of 695 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 2: big large companies now and and some other places. And 696 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 2: some of those shippers I met there, they're still customers. 697 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 2: And so that's very that's very you know, cool to 698 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 2: see and and and just you know, that's that's a 699 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 2: good feeling. And with YouTube and everything now it's a 700 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 2: lot easier to do that podcast on those things. Right 701 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 2: the knowledge is available. I would say it's the best 702 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 2: time in the world to be living in the best 703 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 2: country in the world, because we got the power, you know, 704 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 2: we got the power in our hands on our phones. 705 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 2: A quick story was I bought my first so we 706 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 2: started two thousand and six. I bought my first BlackBerry 707 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 2: in two thousand and like early two thousand and seven, roughly, 708 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 2: and I was like, I don't know how to use 709 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 2: this thing. It was clunky, it was you know, just 710 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 2: not very attractive. And then the iPhone came out in 711 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, think two thousand and seven, and 712 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 2: I was like, I felt like I had the power 713 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 2: of the world of a computer in my hand. Right, 714 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 2: I can check my emails in class, I can I 715 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 2: can text back whatever like very very quickly. So that's 716 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,479 Speaker 2: been awesome. It's been an amazing journey to see going from 717 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 2: faxing in everything to basically not even needing a fax anymore. 718 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 2: But just you know, that's been awesome. As far as 719 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 2: books go, definitely a big Brad Jacobs fan. Loved his 720 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 2: loved his latest book, You Know, How to Make a 721 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 2: Few Billion dollars. Read that a couple of times. Use 722 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 2: those interview questions he's got at the end. Just just 723 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 2: keep learning. That's that's my thing, all right. 724 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: And you mentioned podcasts. I know a great podcast if 725 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,919 Speaker 1: you're interested at uh. I think it's called Talking Transports. 726 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: But so is there anything that you know keeps you 727 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,280 Speaker 1: up at night running a trucking company? 728 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,399 Speaker 2: Besides more drivers that I no longer know everybody's name, 729 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 2: and they're driving our beautiful green trucks and they're going 730 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 2: down the road. And the liability around all of that, right, 731 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,720 Speaker 2: that's that's it gets scary and scarier. So our towers 732 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 2: on our insurance get higher and higher. But just the 733 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,359 Speaker 2: how to take this company to the to the next level, right, 734 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 2: that's a that's I'm always thinking that, like, how do 735 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 2: we how are we going to double? What does that 736 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 2: look like? What's my next you know, how do we 737 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 2: grow the current team, what new players are going to 738 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,399 Speaker 2: be needed to get to that spot? All those things. 739 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 2: I'm always constantly thinking about those things. 740 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 1: All Right, Well, I definitely wish you luck on getting 741 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: to that next level. And I'm sure we're going to 742 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,839 Speaker 1: see achieving of freight lines move up that ranking from 743 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: thirty eight. Hopefully you can crack the top ten in 744 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: a couple of years. 745 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be awesome. I think we moved up from 746 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 2: seventies in the last three years. 747 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 1: All right, well, I really want to thank you for 748 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,760 Speaker 1: your time. This is a great conversation, Harman. 749 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you Lee for having me. 750 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: And I also want to thank you for tuning in. 751 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: If you liked the episode, please subscribe and leaver review. 752 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: We've lined up a number of great guests for the podcast. 753 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: Check back to hear conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators, 754 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: and decision makers within the freight markets. Also, if you 755 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: want to learn more about the freight transportation markets, check 756 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: out our work on the Bloomberg Terminal at bi go 757 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: and on social media. Take care and let's keep those 758 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 1: supply chains moving. Thanks everyone, have a good one.