1 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: Beyond the Beauty is a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Bobby Brown. I remember the first time 3 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: I saw these cool candles, probably on Instagram, and I 4 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: saw that there's this brand called boy Smells, and I thought, Wow, 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: that's so different, and I just instantly like envisioned what 6 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: it would smell like. I reached out and said, cool brand. 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: And I've always been intrigued by this concept of new 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: ways to do things. Matthew Herman is the founder behind 9 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: boy Smells, and I'm really excited to talk to him 10 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: and find out how and why he started this brand 11 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: and mostly how he did it because I know he 12 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: had a job when he started making these candles in 13 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: his home with his boyfriend. So here's my conversation with 14 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: Matthew Herman. Matthew, Hi, Bobby, it's so nice to meet you. 15 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: Where are we catching you? Where are you? I'm in 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: my home in Los Angeles, California. Yeah. So, yeah, you 17 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: have that beautiful light. Yeah, we do, we do. Where 18 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: you are? Where are you right now? In New York? 19 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: In New Jersey, New Jersey? Yeah? Anyway, So where are 20 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: you from originally? Um, I'm originally born and raised in Austin, Texas. Yeah. Uh, 21 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: for some reason, a lot of people I know from 22 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: California have moved to Austin. It's crazy, it is crazy. 23 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: It's um it's amazing how many people I didn't know 24 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: knew each other know each other between this like triangle 25 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: of New York in Austin and Los Angeles. Um. But 26 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot going on in that city, 27 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: and I think it is a city that really fosters 28 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: new ideas and entrepreneurship. And so you know a lot 29 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: of people are moving there. There's a lot of opportunity 30 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: and a lot of exciting stuff happening. Well, I have 31 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: to tell you, congratulations on your brand. It's really cool. 32 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: Thank you. I remember you followed us like years ago, 33 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: and we like literally all like just fell out of 34 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: our chairs when it happened, just like it was. It 35 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 1: was a huge validating moment for us in our in 36 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: our brand trajectory. We were like, we've made it by 37 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: follows us. Do you remember a fragrance called child years ago? 38 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: I think it was like Fred Siegel or some like 39 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: some indie perfumer before there was even such a thing 40 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: as indie beauty companies, And it just smelled like a 41 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: fresh baby out of the bath, and I thought that 42 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: was so cool when I thought Voye smells. That must 43 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: smell when I first saw it and saw the logo 44 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: and the colors, and like, yeah, that should probably smell 45 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: something like my husband when he gets out of the shower. 46 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 1: Like I had no idea. Uh, it's funny. I used 47 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: to work in the fashion industry as a designer, and 48 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: you know, right before we go into some big meeting 49 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: to like present in front of the CEO or the 50 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: president or you know, something like that, I was in 51 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: the designer design side. You know, I'd be spraying on 52 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: some feminine fragrance, you know, like I don't know, like 53 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: too Leap by Barrado or you know, uh, portrait of 54 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: a lady, you know, or something like that. Uh. And 55 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: I look across and my girlfriends, who are design directors 56 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: for other categories, they're putting on Tuscan leather by tom 57 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: Ford or Santall from La Labo. These like much like 58 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: woody or more masculine sense. So you know, when we 59 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: talk about boy smells but coming in the pink box, 60 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: it's kind of just poking fun at you know, certain 61 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: cent notes being assigned to any gender and kind of 62 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: this permission to cross the binary when it comes to center, 63 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: because I could see in that moment, you know, we're 64 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: all creatives. Were all you know, modern people with you know, 65 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: kind of identifying in non traditional ways, you know, all 66 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: fashioned designers. Um, we know what was up and what 67 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: was cool. And you know, here I am spraying myself 68 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: with flowers and my girlfriends are all splaying spraying themselves 69 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: with woods and leathers. So you know that boy smells 70 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: I think is really attractive to both men and women, 71 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,119 Speaker 1: just because it does give that kind of sense of permission. Yeah, 72 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: I love it. So you began working in the fashion industry. 73 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: Did you move to New York right after college? So? Um? 74 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: Two years into college, I was going to Washington University 75 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: in St. Louis, and I decided that my heart was 76 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: really set on being a fashion designer. I got into 77 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: n y U tube, but my parents were like, no, 78 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: you You're you be too distracted living in New York 79 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: right out of high school. Um, they're probably right. So um, 80 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: but by the time it came to declare my major, 81 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: my mind hadn't changed. You know, Like I bill wanted 82 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: to be a fashion designer. So I knew that all 83 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: of my idols had gone to a school in London 84 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: called Central St. Martin's, and I decided I wanted to 85 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: be a fashion designer that you know, had the kind 86 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: of career that my idols had, So I moved to London. 87 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: I lived in London for about six years and worked 88 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: for a designer they're called Giles a little bit after 89 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: I graduated, and then moved back to New York. And 90 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: I had previously interned at Princess Schuler, and I kind 91 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: of picked up there a little bit. And then I 92 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: worked for Zach Posen for many, many years, and then 93 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: ended up moving out to Los Angeles to work for 94 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: the fashion startup kind of darling at that time, Nasty Gal, 95 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: which was founded by Sophia Emma Rosso, whom I'm sure 96 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: you know wrote the book hashtag girl Boss, which is 97 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: kind of become a slogan for a generation, I think. Um, 98 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: but it was a very cool place to work, um 99 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: and kind of you know readdressing fast fashion for a 100 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: new identity, which I thought was really cool. Wow. Well, 101 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: first of all, I hope you thank your parents. That 102 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: was really nice to them, you know, way back way 103 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: back then. But but have you always been into fragrance, 104 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: like even as a kid. Yeah, I mean I remember 105 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,799 Speaker 1: like even when like Gap came out with like Grass 106 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: and Earth, they remember those and and I was like, 107 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: oh my god, this is such like a like a 108 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: different way to approach it. And I think even Um 109 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: Demeter that that company that just did like dirt and 110 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: like tomato and like they had that big shop in 111 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: New York for a while. But like those kind of 112 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: like non traditional fragrances like really like intrigued me, Um 113 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: when I was you know, younger, and I was kind 114 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: of like captured by you know, that that fantasy. And 115 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: then of course, you know, being a fashion designer, like 116 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: the designers that always inspired me were like McQueen and 117 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: you know, Vivian Westwood and Galliano and like these people 118 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,559 Speaker 1: who like really created these like really over the top 119 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: kind of environment and worlds and kind of created these 120 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: own narrative for which their customers can kind of live in. 121 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: So I've always loved the idea of like creating a 122 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: world in a culture and sent has always been really 123 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: interesting to me. Um, and dualities are like always what's 124 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: really interested me. I think what I loved about those 125 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: fashion des iers work is that like McQueen would always 126 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: combine like tailoring with draper and drapery, which is like 127 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: something very masculine with something very feminine. And I've always 128 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: loved like, you know, neo classical or the way product 129 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: does something that feels like very vintage with something like 130 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: hyper modern and sporting. So I see a lot of 131 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: what I've done in the past, and like what my 132 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: interests have always been kind of like rolling into this 133 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: kind of perfect combination with boy Smells that really centers 134 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: around combining masculine and minute together and creating sin and 135 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: creating this. You know, it's been it's really fun to 136 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: be I mean as sure you know, um, you know, 137 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: it's really after working for other people your entire life, 138 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: it's just really fun to kind of take the things 139 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: that you're passionate about and take everything that you've learned 140 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: from your past experiences and and and work for yourself 141 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: and create your own culture for your company. It's, uh, 142 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: it's really exciting, and it's something that I've always wanted 143 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: to do and and and Boye Smells, if you'd asked 144 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: me ten years ago, do you think you'll like own 145 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: a candle in fragrance company. I would have said, no way, um, 146 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: but I'm so excited that this is where my my 147 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: life is kind of turned and endured towards. Yeah. So 148 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: you started this company at home with your boyfriend? Correct, 149 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: I did while you both had other jobs. Yeah, yeah, 150 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: we were you know, I had read Girl Boss and 151 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: you know, drank the kool aid over at Nasty Gal 152 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: and they really encouraged everyone to have a side hustle, 153 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: which was so weird. Like at my interview and like 154 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: my onboarding, they were like, we really encourage everybody to 155 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: have a side hustle. And I was like, okay, okay, um, 156 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: I guess I gotta get on that. And so um 157 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: that was super cool. And David was in between jobs 158 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: at the moment. At the moment that we decided to 159 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: start working on this, we had talked about wanting to 160 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: have a store really kind of centered on home and 161 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: maybe some fashion basics that just didn't feel like overly 162 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: gendered to like one side or the other. And also 163 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: as gay men like and queer men, we didn't feel 164 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: like there was a lot of like queer or gay 165 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: products or stores that really like represented had the taste 166 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: level that we liked. You know, we live in we're 167 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: like Silver Lake and Echo Park adjacent in Los Angeles. 168 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: You know, we like a pretty like you know, casual, 169 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: like you know, laid back, kind of elevated California lifestyle. 170 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: And you know, we didn't see you know, ourselves necessarily 171 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: represented and some of the stores that you might find 172 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: and West Hollywood or Chelsea. We actually felt like very 173 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: estranged by those aesthetics, you know. Um, and so a 174 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: combination of those things. We started just playing with candles. Um. 175 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: He comes from a fashion production background, so he was 176 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: great to figure out, how do you make this? What 177 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: kind of wax? What are the wigs? You know, like, 178 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: what do you have to do with the glass, Like, 179 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: what's the flashpoint, what's the how do you get the 180 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: tempered glass? Like, what's the difference getting braided wick and uh, 181 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: you know not braided wick. Like. So he was great 182 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: at figuring that out. He was not great at making sense. Um. 183 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: I really kind of came in and I was like, 184 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: let me tinker with this, let me play with this. 185 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: I was the one really kind of experimenting, and I 186 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: guess being more the designer in that regard, and then 187 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: I really loved the idea of like the Pink Box 188 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: and Boy Smells. David has a real aptitude for typography 189 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 1: and laying those kinds of things out. So it's really 190 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: just like brand is really kind of a combination of 191 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: our skill sets and our aesthetics and it really just 192 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: complemented each other and making a successful product. But you 193 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: guys must fight over something. Oh we we fight tooth 194 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: and nail over some all the time. And it's like 195 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: it's it's not even the big stuff. It's like the 196 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: little details that we fight over, which seems so silly 197 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: because those are kind of like not the most important things. 198 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: But it'll be just like the size of our logo 199 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: on a new piece of packaging, or like like whether 200 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: the text is left justified versus right justified on something 201 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: like little stuff. But it's, um, you know, I'm a 202 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: lot more comfortable with confrontation and and friction, just because 203 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: I've worked in a lot of design studios, you know, 204 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: in fashion, and there's a lot of that. There's a 205 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: lot of cooks in the kitchen and the design team, 206 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of passionate points of view on stuff. Um, 207 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: David is less comfortable with those situations but I do 208 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: think that it is the friction of our two points 209 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: of view that really create what is beautiful about our brand. 210 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 1: So while it's not fun to go through, I think 211 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: that it is important to disagree and to push things 212 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 1: forward and and to make better product basically because because 213 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: of it. And when do you do you have rules 214 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: like when not to talk business or does that not exist? 215 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: I mean I wish we could say that it does. 216 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: But you know, Voice Smells is bootstrapped. We own the 217 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: entire company ourselves, Like we side hustle this for two years. 218 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: We've ran it out of our house for three years. Um, 219 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: we're unfortunately, are in the habit of it. This is 220 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: really kind of our lives, you know. And there's no 221 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,959 Speaker 1: fallback you know, investor if things don't work out, you know, 222 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: and we're really proud of, you know, having built this 223 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: from scratch um all, you know, with a little bit 224 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: of our own money and just kind of reinvesting everything 225 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,239 Speaker 1: we make. So there's really not a lot of boundaries. 226 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: But I hope that as we become a bigger company, 227 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: as we build out of our build out our teams, 228 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: that will be able to start to draw more lines, 229 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: you know, between what we can and can't do. And 230 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: you also have a line of underwear which I can't 231 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: say that I have seen and I need to go 232 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: check them out. Tell me about the underwear. Yeah, so 233 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: it's called boy Smells Unmentionables. We made these underwear men's, 234 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: well what we would traditionally be called men's and women's, 235 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: same colors, similar cuts. You can mix and match, but 236 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: there's no difference in colors or materials between what is 237 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: traditionally the men's and women's. The women's are called flat front, 238 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: so you have a flat front brief and a flat 239 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: front trunk. What's traditionally called men's is called a pouch 240 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: front brief and a pouch front uh trunk, and then 241 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: we have the brawlett so um. You know, we really 242 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: want to make gender diversity, gender multidimensionality, gender expression to 243 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: be really up to the person, um, and so taking 244 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: out those gender pronouns from in front of our underwear, UM, 245 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: we thought was the smart choice and really allows more 246 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: representation uh in in that line. But it's kind of 247 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: cool to see the pouch front briefs and the pouch 248 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: front trunks. You know, they're in these beautiful like pink 249 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: and lushed and lilac tones. And it's really cool, especially 250 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: on Instagram, to see a lot of men wearing these 251 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: much more feminine colors. It's really really fun to see 252 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: kind of a more feminine expression for men and underwear 253 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: on the Graham and New Identities, kind of embracing a 254 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: different version of men's underwear than you usually see. And 255 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: you're in three hundred retail locations. We are, Yes, wholesale 256 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: is over three hundred locations. Um, I'm really excited to 257 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: announce that we have We've been tested at Nordstrom in 258 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: their Space section for the past year and a half 259 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: or two. We're now rolling out into all into one 260 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: hundred doors in Nordstrom this year. So that's four doors, right, 261 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: that'll be another hundred yet. Wow. And and do you 262 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: have you're not out of your home? You have an office? 263 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: Just check in. No, I mean it was crazy to 264 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: three years ago when we moved out of this space. 265 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine what it would be like now. No, 266 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: we're Um, we've got a nice three thousand in square 267 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: foot office. Now that's really cool. Now you also have 268 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: wearable fragrance. Yeah, now what does that mean? Yeah, it's 269 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: called cologne depart fone kind of poking fun even further 270 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: at you know what's traditionally men's and what's traditionally women's. 271 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: We have five new cents there priced at nine eight 272 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: dollars um. You know our candles are. We call this 273 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: like an inclusive price point. Um. We think that this 274 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: idea of luxury should be able to be tapped in 275 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: from for everyone. They're cleanly formulated, you know. Um. Each 276 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: of them combines what I think of as traditionally feminine 277 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: and traditionally masculine sent notes. So my favorite end of 278 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: wearing lately is called Violet Ends, and it had as 279 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: beautiful growing violet, this very like bountiful rue barb in there. 280 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: But then it mixes it with black tea and um, 281 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: tobacco leaves and smoke papyrus. So you have this kind 282 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: of like push pull of that more traditionally feminine with 283 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: the more traditionally masculine. We don't like the word unisex, 284 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: so we use a word called gender full, where it's 285 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: more about there's this full power of I think we 286 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: all have masculine and feminine power within us, you know, 287 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: like we all are kind of defying the expectations of 288 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: outdated gender norms, you know. So that's what gender full is. 289 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 1: It's really about just, you know, kind of disregarding the 290 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: rules of your gender and like plowing for it and 291 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: and blazing your own trail for whatever you want to 292 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: do with your life and however you want to be seen, 293 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: and and making sure that you're seeing in the way 294 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: that you want to be seen. So I have a question, 295 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: because there's so many people listening to this that wish 296 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: they had their own company. They want to be entrepreneurs, 297 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: they want to do something. So what have you learned? 298 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: You know that you just had no idea until you 299 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: started a company. Is there any surprises? Oh my god, 300 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: I mean they're surprises every single day. I mean I 301 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 1: think that's what you have to learn more than anything, 302 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: is to be able to think on your feet and 303 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: react and adjust course correct. And I know that this 304 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: is kind of cheesy because I feel like every founder 305 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: says it, but it's so true. I just don't view 306 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: anything we've ever done as a failure, even even if 307 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: maybe to some people it is. I just I genuinely 308 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: believe every single thing that we've done, if it wasn't 309 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: as successful as we hoped it to be. It was 310 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: awesome because we have that knowledge now of how to 311 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: do the next thing in a smarter way. So I 312 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: think we were getting smarter each step of the way. 313 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: But it's really important that you view this if you're 314 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: going to start your own company, that you view it 315 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: as an adventure and whether and that you view it 316 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: as a win for yourself, whether it closes in six 317 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: months or it lasts for twenty years, or you sell 318 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: it or you don't. You know, as long as you 319 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: are enjoying that process and love what you do and 320 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: like the value that you're getting out of the experience 321 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: is adding to your life. I think that that's the wind. 322 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: But then what's the hardest part? What keeps you up? 323 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: Like obsessed at night? Uh? Bandwidth? You know? Uh. Not 324 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: having taken on external finance, our funding, we are on 325 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: a very very very lean team. We are a total 326 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: of twelve people at the company and that four or 327 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: five of those were only added this past year. So 328 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: we are trying to tackle and do so much. We 329 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: were planning new categories. I think we launched ten new 330 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: candles last year or something. You know. We had this 331 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: collaboration with Casey Musgraves that just took off like a 332 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: wildfire last year during the pandemic. You know, when you know, 333 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: our glasswork comes from China, the paper comes from Northern Italy, 334 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 1: and it's all made of Los Angeles and it was 335 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: just like one rolling supply chain blackout after another in 336 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: those different areas. And you know it is those things 337 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: keep me up. Money keeps me up. As every single 338 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: year when we roll into August or September, we start 339 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: having to pay for all of our queue for production, 340 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,959 Speaker 1: so all of our you know, we're candles. People love 341 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: to give candles as gifts. We do twice as much 342 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: business in October, November, December as we do in every 343 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: other quarter. So in each year as a business grows, 344 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: that amount of inventory doubles or triples or quadruples, depending 345 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: on how you know successful the year before was. And 346 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: that is always super super stressful. I think I used 347 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: to feel like I had to control every aspect to 348 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: know every single thing that was going on in the business. 349 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: In this past year, it's just gotten too big for 350 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: me to be able to do that. So at this point, 351 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, really trusting and your team and um delegating 352 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: have thoes, have been um skills that I continue to 353 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: try to work on. And how did your relationship with 354 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: Casey start? She just DMed us on Instagram. I mean, 355 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: don't you love Instagram? I mean it just it's just 356 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: I love like being able to take off these kind 357 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: of like obstacles to communicating. You know, it's just crazy. 358 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: I think we dem with you when you first followed us, 359 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: and like it just that's just wild to me to 360 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: like to be able to have somebody like Casey muskrat 361 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: Is just like, you know, take a picture of herself 362 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: with your candle on their tour bus and be like, 363 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: I love cush. It's like my favorite said, I've burned 364 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: all the time on my tour of us, and I'm like, 365 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: that's so cool, Like, we love you quite a ride, 366 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: you guys are on. Yeah, it's it is. It's really 367 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: cool and I love hearing about it. But I want 368 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: to ask you a couple of fast questions, because I 369 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 1: ask everyone these questions. First of all, what does beauty 370 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: mean to you? Beauty means looking in the mirror and 371 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: thinking that this is like the crim of the cram. 372 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: You know, I really believe and hope that we can 373 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: migrate towards like the uty standard you have for yourself 374 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: is what is in the mirror. Like I think that 375 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: there's so much representation and cool stuff happening and in 376 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: fashion and beauty, and I just I'm obsessed with it 377 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: and I love it, and I think it just provides 378 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: so much more room for people to feel good about themselves. 379 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: And what's your daily skincare ritual? So I washed my 380 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: face with a tauta Harper face wash um. Then I 381 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: get out of the shower and I mix um a 382 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: couple of drops of a vitamin c acity kind of 383 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: thing with my toner, and I rub it together and 384 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: put it on my face, and then after that I moisturize. 385 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: But that depends, Like I mean, as I'm sure you know, 386 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: we get gifted a lot of other brands that like, 387 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: we collaborate with or do giveaways with, so we kind 388 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: of always have this never ending supply of like really 389 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: cool new stuff to you try out. Um. But I 390 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: recently did an Instagraham Live in a giveaway with Shado, 391 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: and I'm actually wearing their Vital perfection Um moisturizer today 392 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: with a little bit of face oil that my friend 393 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: who owns a company called mullan and sparrow with one 394 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: of her um clarifying face oils. Yeah, okay, Well what 395 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: do you do for fun? I like to go out. 396 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: I like to travel with my friends when I can. UM. 397 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: I live in l A now, but as I might 398 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: have mentioned, I've lived in New York and I've lived 399 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: in UM. I lived in London and I have I 400 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: sall have a lot of close friends in Austin, but 401 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 1: I'm from So. I love to go on trips and 402 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: travel with my friends. And my parents actually live in 403 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: Mexico half the year, UM, and so I love to 404 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: go and when they're down there, I love to go 405 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: and visit them and really relax. UM. So traveling with 406 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: my favorite And how about your cocktail of choice? I've 407 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: really been into the grownies lately. UM. I like bitter things, 408 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: but I also drink like a lot of natural red wine. 409 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: The natural red wine. The natural wine scene in l 410 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: A is very vibrant and and I've totally drank the 411 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: koolaid there. And one last question about your business? Where 412 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: do you want it to go? So? This is like 413 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: means a lot to me. So I want to make 414 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: sure I land I land it right. I think what 415 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: boy smail stands for, and like how I feel about beauty, 416 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: how I feel about gender, and and even Casey Musgraves, 417 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: you know, like her being a really cool liberal female 418 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: in this like hyper uh conservative male dominated industry. Like 419 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: everything that I do, I want to be about challenging 420 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: the status quo or challenging what is just inherited to 421 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: be true in the social fabric. I really believe that 422 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: there's a lot more space for different identities in the world. 423 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: So everything that we do, I really want to be 424 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: about creating products for modern identity. And I think that 425 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: we happen to make candles underwear and find fragrance now, 426 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: but I think that the sky is the limit for 427 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: what we can do with the brand, because it's really 428 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 1: about being an opportunity for authenticity, you know, and if 429 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: we can bring that to all the touch points in 430 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: your day that are often throw away, just like brushing 431 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: your teeth or putting on your fieldorant like or slipping 432 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: on your underwear, like those are often people don't think 433 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: about those moments they're throwaway, but if they're there's an 434 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: opportunity for that to be and identity the authenticating experience 435 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 1: for you UM, I think that that's incredibly powerful and 436 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: super cool. Well, I can't wait to see where you're going, 437 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: and I think it's really cool. I think you've a 438 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: great brand, and I see a lot of opportunity, and 439 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: I'm really happy that I had this opportunity to talk 440 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 1: to you. Oh my god, I this is so exciting 441 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: for me, and getting to talk to you is a 442 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: highlight of the boy Smells experience so far. And I 443 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: really really deeply and genuinely appreciate your interest in our 444 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: brand and your support of it. Um. It really means 445 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: a lot of good luck with everything. Thank you, Bobby, 446 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, 447 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 448 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.