1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I didn't realize what I 2 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: was dealing with when I first worked on a case 3 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: where a jogger goes missing. I remember her name, Julie 4 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: Love in Atlanta. At the time, I was a felony 5 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: prosecutor and inner City Atlanta. She had been out jogging. 6 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: She was a kindergarten teacher, and she couldn't be found. 7 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: The investigation was fierce, and at one point, finally her 8 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: glass eye was found. To look at her, you would 9 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: never even though she had a prosthetic eye, but she did, 10 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: and that cracked the case wide open. Since that time, 11 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: over and over and over we hear about usually women 12 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: who go missing or end up murdered while exercising. Julie 13 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: was murdered, and there have been thousands of women who 14 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: go missing or a murdered since that time. When I 15 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: first encountered that case, I did not realize that her 16 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: disappearance and death was just the tip of the iceberg. 17 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: Now so one of the reasons I wrote Don't Be 18 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: a Victim Fighting back against America's crime wave. Crime Stories 19 00:01:51,120 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. One of the first chapter I worked 20 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: on was safe while Exercising and joining me today is 21 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: the man whose daughter inspired me to spend months and 22 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: months researching and cultivating the information. Not to scare you, 23 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: but to arm you, to arm you with knowledge to 24 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: protect yourself and your family. My proceeds from this book 25 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: going to the National Center for Missing Unexploited Children. Take 26 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: a listen to this, give me a sense for the 27 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: timeline that day. That's a day that I will never forget. 28 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: I started to worry, which is unusual. I had a feeling, 29 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: so I called her three times, didn't answer, and I 30 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: went out looking for her. The panic just immediately set in. 31 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: It didn't seem to make sense to me. There was 32 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: no sign of her. Four hours after Phil's phone calls, 33 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: pings from Karna's cell phone led him and police to Karina, 34 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: you found your daughter. I did, with the help of 35 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: the PD. As a parent, I have a hard time 36 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: even getting my arms around that. I think as a parent, 37 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: you would rather you find your child than someone else. 38 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: It's the last act of protection you can give you 39 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: a child. No parent should ever have to go through 40 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: what Phil Vatronto has been through with the death of 41 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: his beautiful daughter Karina. With me today is Phil Vatronto 42 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: along with an all star panel to break it down 43 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: put it back together again. Dodgor Bethany marsh psychoanalysts joining 44 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: me out of LA. You can find her at doctor 45 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com. Kurknurmi, renowned defense attorney and author 46 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: of Trapped with miss Arius Parts two and three on Amazon. 47 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: Dave matt Crime Online dot com, investigative reporter. And Joseph 48 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood 49 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon and now the new star 50 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: of Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network. To everyone 51 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: joining us, thank you. I want to go first to 52 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: Karina's dad, Phil. You and I taught and talked and 53 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 1: talked when we were pushing the acceptance of familial DNA 54 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: to be used across the country, and you inspired me 55 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: to work on a brand new series coming out called 56 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: Bloodline Detectives, which deals with cracking cases with familial DNA. Yeah, 57 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: I'm no idea. How much do you have affected my 58 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: life and the lives of so many other people, particularly 59 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: writing this book. Thanks to you, Phil. I know you 60 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: don't enjoy talking about this, but in this book, one 61 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: of the main chapters is safe while exercising. Please tell 62 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: us about the day Karina went missing. Well, she went alone. 63 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: She went alone in a secluded area. I mean, there 64 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: were many factors that should have told me and should 65 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: have told her not to go, not to go where 66 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: she went, but she did. And I had a little 67 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: intuition before she went. I told her, I don't think 68 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: it's a good idea, and she said, don't worry, Daddy, 69 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: I'll be okay. And she went off, you know, a 70 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: hundred yards from my house. She went into a trail 71 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: and it was a trail you had run many many 72 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: times with her. In fact, you guys normally ran together 73 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: like I would exercise with my dad for years and 74 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: years and years together. Yes, yes, we ran that trail 75 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: just the Saturday prior to the tours day when when 76 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: she was murdered. So what three days three days before? 77 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: You know, doctor Bethany Marshall, Phil who I consider not 78 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: only as a colleague but a dear friend. Now he 79 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: and his wife who have just been to Hell and back. 80 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: Did you hear what he said, Bethany? Because he said, 81 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: and you know what I'm going to ask you, because 82 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: I've asked you this before. He said, I had an intuition. 83 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: I told her, I don't think you should go today, 84 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: and she said, I'll be fine, daddy, and left that intuition. 85 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: And I can't explain it, but maybe you can, Nancy. Yes, 86 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: we have a certain way of knowing that bypasses the 87 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: right lateral part of the brain, the part that is 88 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: responsible for language and speech and reading and all of that, 89 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: there's a whole other part of our consciousness that if 90 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: what we call prescient, it can help us to look 91 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: into the future and see what might happen. We could 92 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: call it psychic or having good judgment, intuition, whatever you 93 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: want to call it. We all have it. And this 94 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: book you're writing, you know, safe while exercising. I would say, 95 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what your research showed, but that following 96 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: your intuition is the number one thing that you need 97 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: to do. Phil had a bad sense. He did tell 98 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: his daughter and she went anyway. And the sound you 99 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: played earlier about him finding wanting to wishing that he 100 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: could have found his daughter, that it's the final act 101 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: of safety. I mean, he had it from the moment 102 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: she went to exercise. And wait till you hear this. 103 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: Bethany feel. Carina had been gone for I don't know, 104 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: twenty thirty minutes, and you had another overwhelming feeling. What 105 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: was it? Something was wrong. I was just sitting in 106 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: the are and just watching the Lose in my dinner, 107 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: and then this feeling just came over me. First it 108 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: was slight, and then it got stronger and stronger, like 109 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: something was amiss. Now, it was only twenty twenty five 110 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: minutes after she left. She shouldn't even been back yet. 111 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: But I called her and she didn't answer. I called 112 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: her one minute later and she didn't answer. I called 113 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: her two minutes after that and she didn't answer, and 114 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: I gave out a yell with a curse on the 115 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: end of it. And my wife had just came back 116 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,839 Speaker 1: from abdollinble surgery. I just picked her up at the 117 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: hospital and she was up in bed and she heard 118 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: me yelling. She said, what's the matter, and I said, 119 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: Comena is not answering the phone. I'm going out. She 120 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: didn't even know comed anyone out. Oh how is that? 121 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: You know? She didn't even know what she went out 122 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: last time she saw her. She just came home from 123 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: the hospital. She went upstairs and the next thing you 124 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: know she hears she's dead. Time stories with Nancy Grace. 125 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: Guys were talking about the disappearance and the murder of 126 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: a beautiful, beautiful and brilliant young woman, Karina v. Toronto. 127 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: But she is not the only one. I'm not saying 128 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: that women shouldn't go exercise. I do it every day 129 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: if I can. And I'm not saying don't wear a 130 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: sports bra, don't wear tides. No, I'm not saying that 131 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: that's so miss bogynists. But there are ways for you 132 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: to protect yourself. Don't be a statistic I talk about 133 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: it after so much. Took me two years to research 134 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: and write this book for you. This is based on 135 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: cases I investigated, thousands of them, cases I personally tried. 136 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: In cases I have personally covered, including Carina Vatronto's case. 137 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: Listen to this. Her body was discovered just fifteen feet 138 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: away from a trail that she and her father ran 139 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: together nearly every day, but back pain forced him to 140 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: stay at home the afternoon she was killed. The retired 141 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: firefighter now has a message of his own for the attacker. 142 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 1: Justice will be served. On Friday, detectives discovered a sneaker 143 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: and headphones near the crime scene and sent them in 144 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: for testing in the hopes of finding fingerprints or DNA evidence. Meanwhile, 145 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: the Toronto's devastated parents lead their daughter to rest Saturday. 146 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: Her casket was met with salutes as hundreds gathered for 147 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: the funeral. Even actor Donnie Walbert took a moment this 148 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: weekend to remember her, writing on Twitter, I've met thousands 149 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: of amazing New Yorkers while filming Bluebloods. None were as 150 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: kind as Karina Vatranto. So many people attended Saturday's funeral service, 151 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: so they had to set up speakers outside where people 152 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: were standing. Anyone with information will now get a ten 153 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: thousand dollars reward for information that leads to an arrest. 154 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: If we can stop, if we can prevent one person 155 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: from being attacked while exercising, this will all be worth it. 156 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: Now you can hear with us today feel Vatronto speaking 157 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: so calmly, so coherently, but as it always been that way. 158 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Lindsay Davis at ABCGMA, 159 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: just one day or laying their thirty year old daughter 160 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: Karina to rest. Both of her parents spoke publicly, but 161 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: it was her mother who had some especially blistering words. 162 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: To stress her point, she started off by taking off 163 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: her sunglasses and telling everyone to look in her eyes 164 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: as she could address the men directly that she called 165 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: a coward. I guarantee you you will pay forever a 166 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: mother's unbridled pain and anguish on full display, Dune. We're 167 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: gonna have a faith to the piece of garbage that 168 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: you are. On Sunday afternoon, Kathy Vatranto shared this chilling 169 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: message to the person who killed her daughter, Corina. The 170 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: whole entire world knows what a pathetic, puny, weak piece 171 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: of filth that you are. These words are the first 172 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: we've heard from Vatranto's family since thirty year old was 173 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: found dead less than a week ago. You were hearing 174 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: Karina's mother speaking out, lashing out. But I can tell 175 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: you during the trial of Karna's killer, an attacker, there 176 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: were times she had to be helped to carry, to 177 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: almost carry her, lift her to walk out of that courtroom. 178 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: She was so racked with pain hearing the evidence. I 179 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: remember she was actually holding onto I thought she was 180 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: kissing a crucifix for strength to get her through the trial. 181 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 1: Now you'll hear her father, Phil Vatrono describe how healthy, 182 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: how physically fit. And if you go on crime online 183 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: dot Com, look at Karna Vatrono. She looks like she 184 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: works out every day, very strong. Listen to Chris Hanson 185 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: Crime Watch, Deli and Boys tells me what they found 186 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: made even a hardened detective turn away. Give me a 187 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: sense for the injuries Karina summer facial injuries. She also 188 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: had bruising on her body. We believe from being dragged 189 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: through those weeds proper area. So that's who we believed 190 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: where that bruising on her body came from. And when 191 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: you found her, she was still graspul to the weeds. 192 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: She had the weeds, stems of the weeds in her hands. 193 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: What does that tell you she thought not to go 194 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: into those weeds. Karina's dad took me to that jogging 195 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: trail and Howard Beach where police found his beautiful daughter. 196 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if this person was waiting for her. 197 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: I don't know if this person was following her. Phil 198 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: was tronto your daughter. You would think because she was 199 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: so physically fit, she could have fought back and won. Right. Well, man, shoot, 200 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: I have to tell you Karina for those who don't 201 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: know it was four eleven, one hundred pounds. She looked 202 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: extremely fit, and she was. But when someone outweighs you 203 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: by fifty pounds and as a foot toiller, and this 204 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: is the key, he sucked punched her. He hit her 205 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: from behind. She was passing him, you know, not probably 206 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: giving her second thought, and then he turned on her. 207 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: So she was definitely if I was a fan fight, 208 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: she would definitely have gotten away. But he suckered her, 209 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: and he did outweigh her and was a foot toiler 210 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: then her four eleven. It's a little baby. The man 211 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: who attacked and killed her. Channel Lewis had been spotted 212 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood before, walking around with I think it 213 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: was a crowbar, looking in cars and homes. A police 214 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: officer saw him. There wasn't enough cause to arrest him 215 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: for anything, but he made a note in his police notebook, 216 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: and because of that note, when the trail went dead 217 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: and finding Karina's killer, that notebook was resurrected, and that person, 218 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: Chanelle Lewis turned out to be Karina's killer. You are 219 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: hearing her dad describing how physically fit she was, but 220 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: she was no match for a guy that snuck up 221 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: on her and Sucker punched her. Would you say, let 222 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: me go out to Kirk Nurmi. This is or now 223 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: defense attorney that very often in cases like this, the 224 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: woman is taken by surprise. It's more like a crime 225 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: of opportunity. You don't always think of the defendant lurking 226 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: waiting on an empty stretch of road, waiting for somebody 227 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: to run by. They see the person and attack, right, 228 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I think you're right, Nancy. Sadly, we have 229 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people in the of this mindset that 230 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: are looking kind of looking for that crime of opportunity. 231 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: Y right. This is why he's lurking around the cars. 232 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: This is why he has a crowbar, this is why 233 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: he's doing this. He's looking for these opportunities and when 234 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: it came, he decided to take advantage of it, for 235 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: lack of a better word, is to play out his thick, 236 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: twisted game. And this is exactly what happened. Because we 237 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: have to be and this is why we have to 238 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: be aware that there are people like this all around 239 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: us that require us to be conscious of everything and 240 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: every place that we're at. And as it turned out 241 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: to doctor Bethany Marshall, this guy. Chanelle Lewis had a 242 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: very deep seated hatred of women. But how's Corona is 243 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: supposed to know that she passes a guy and has 244 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: no idea who this guy is. Just like when I 245 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: go walking or jogging or biking, I don't know who 246 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: I'm passing. Nancy a deep seated hatred for women. Probably 247 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 1: a serial killer in the making, serial ray fist, somebody 248 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: who actually has a compulsion to torture and to kill. 249 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: That who's who Chanel was. And if you think about 250 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: the fact that he was walking around the neighborhood with 251 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: a crowbar looking in cars, that speaks to somebody who 252 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: is so preoccupied with doing damage to another human being 253 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,479 Speaker 1: that that is their only motivation in life. So Coarina 254 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: didn't have a chance once she passed this guy on 255 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: the trail. He had been practicing for this moment for 256 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: months and perhaps even for years. They practice, they think 257 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: about it, they fantasized about it, so the victim has 258 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: no chance. Time stories with Nancy Grace, we've been talking 259 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 1: about Karina Vatrano and how to protect yourself when you're exercising. 260 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: Do you remember the name Molly tibbets I do listen 261 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: to our friends at w o I TV five Des Moines. 262 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: This is not like her. Dalton Jack is living in 263 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: a nightmare. I figured i'd speak to her in that 264 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: hour or so, and right now it's one he can't 265 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: wake up from. I came home as soon as her 266 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: mom said that she called the hospital and she wasn't there. 267 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 1: The last time the twenty year old saw Molly was 268 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: on Wednesday at ten pm when he opened a snapchat 269 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: from her. It was just a selfie with the caption 270 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: and I don't remember what the caption said, but it 271 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 1: looked like she was inside. He never thought he wouldn't 272 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: hear from her again. When he said her early Thursday morning, 273 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: he didn't notice the message hadn't been read until her 274 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: friend called late that afternoon. One of her co workers 275 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: called me, said Molly had not called in to work 276 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: that day and she hadn't showed up. And then I 277 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: looked at the messages and she hadn't opened or read 278 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: any of them. So I started getting in contact with 279 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: your friends and her family, saying, hey, have you seen her? 280 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: Have you heard from her? Of course, the boyfriend is 281 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: always the first place you look at when a woman 282 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: goes missing. That was not the case with Molly Tibbots. 283 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend at ABC, Alex Perez. 284 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: The search for missing Molly Tibbots has come to a 285 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: tragic end today. A body was discovered early this morning 286 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: in a farm field southeast of Brooklyn, Iowa. We believe 287 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: it to be the body of Molly Tipbots. She was 288 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: found in a cornfield and there were cornstocks placed over 289 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: the top of her and tonight a suspect in custody, 290 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: twenty four year old Christian Rivera. Police a Rivera led 291 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: them to her body this morning and confess to her murder. 292 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: The case will be prosecuted by the Iowa Attorney General 293 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: General's Prosecution Division, and first degree murder carries a penalty 294 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: of life without the possibility of parole. According to authorities, 295 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: Rivera encountered Molly Tibbots near the intersection of Boundary and 296 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: Middle Streets in eastern Brooklyn when she was out Johnking. 297 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: He actually tells us that he ran alongside of her 298 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: or behind her, and then at one point he tells 299 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: us that Molly grabbed a hold of her phone and said, 300 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: you need to leave me alone. I'm going to call 301 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: the police and then she took off running. He in 302 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: turn chased her down. This shows that no matter where 303 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: you are, there are people around predators. Just like out 304 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: on the serengetti. When you think of the gazelle joining 305 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: each other at the water, the side of the water, 306 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: and in the distance, there lurks a predator waiting for 307 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: one gazelle to be the slowest. We're talking about safe 308 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: while exercising, and I want to go to you, Joe 309 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. I also say, as much as I've done 310 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: it because of my schedule, try not to run at 311 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: night or at night fall. Molly Tibbitts was running around 312 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:03,239 Speaker 1: night fall. Also, I say take id, whether it's your 313 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: driver's license, library card, a scrap of paper stuffed down 314 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 1: your sports brat with your name, address and number when 315 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: you need help. This helps first responders identify who you are. 316 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: I also tie my key into my shoelaces in my 317 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: hands are totally free. And don't put earbuds in your ears. 318 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: Don't do it. Phil was Karina jogging with earbuds? Yeah 319 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: she was, and she always did you know? She had 320 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: a music playing. She was oblivious to what was going 321 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: around around her situation. She often described in her writings 322 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: how she would put her earbuds in and hit the 323 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: pavement and all the bs that happened during the day 324 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: would all fade away. So she was actually in a 325 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: very spiritual place at that time. You know, she was, 326 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: she was with gone. You know, we're not happy. You know, Phil, 327 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: I do it too. I wrought jog or run or 328 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: walk with earbuds, and I've quit since I met you 329 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: and learned about Karina because one of the last video 330 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: surveillance it was her jogging by and you can distinctly 331 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: see I think it was a chord from earbuds. All 332 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: of this so important to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics. 333 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: When Molly Tibbitts was found, no ID, nothing on her. 334 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: We know the perp came up beside her, kept kind 335 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: of jogging beside her. She said, go away or I'll 336 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: call police. That pushed him over the edge. Why is 337 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: it so important to have some kind of ID on you. Well, 338 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: obviously you want to, you know, have have proof of 339 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: who you are relative to the people that you're going 340 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 1: to encounter on the road. But in Molly's case, I 341 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: you know, I sit there and I think about This 342 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: guy was literally laying in wait for her. He is 343 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: a predator. Just like with Phil's beautiful daughter. This guy, 344 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: the scumbag, was a totally incomplete predator. And what happens, 345 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: unfortunately many times, is you have what's referred to as 346 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: asymmetry with these with these attacks, you've got people that 347 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: are in a dominant position over somebody that's in a 348 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: very weakened state. They see them, they go after them, 349 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: and unfortunately they'll wind up ripping them to shreds. Another 350 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: out of pages and pages of pages of tips for 351 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: you that I've gleaned from cases, some of which you're 352 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: hearing about today. Don't leave home. Don't get angry, because 353 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: nobody ever tells us to men. But don't leave home 354 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: without letting someone know you're heading out, whether it's a 355 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: day or night. Texts, call, email, somebody you trust. I'm 356 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: going jogging. I remember so many nights before the twins 357 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: were born. I would get home from doing my program 358 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: at hl N plus Larry King. After that, that that would 359 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: be ten o'clock at night. I would get home and 360 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: then go jogging on the East River in New York 361 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: at say eleven ish o'clock. That is crazy, talk, but 362 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: nobody could tell me different. I would, however, take my 363 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: phone with me, not use earbuds, and would text somebody 364 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: and let them know where I was going. Do you remember, 365 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, When Molly first went missing, a lot 366 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: of people thought she was last at the home of 367 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: her boyfriend who was out of town doing online homework, 368 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: because she had posted a picture or something like that 369 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: of her they're doing homework. So a lot of people 370 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: thought she had gone jogging and come back because no 371 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: one knew where she was or that she was going jogging. 372 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: You remember that, Joe Scott? Yeah, I do, Dancy, and 373 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: I remember at the time you and I were actually 374 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: covering this case together when Molly disappeared, And do you 375 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: recall also, there were all of these signs she was 376 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: Do you remember people were spotting her in like four 377 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: or five different states, far flung areas, and all the 378 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: while there her body lay in that cornfield after weeks, 379 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: after weeks, where this guy had placed her there, and 380 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: no one had any idea where she had wound up. 381 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: You know. Phil Vatronto, father off Karina Vatronto, often called 382 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: the Long Island Jogger. Phil. When I think about Chanel 383 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: Lewis and his hatred of women and the guy that 384 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: murdered Molly Tibbetts. Remember he had put Molly in his trunk, yes, 385 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: and then he said he looked down and saw blood 386 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: on his hands and went, oh, yeah, she's in my 387 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: trunk and went and hid her in a cornfield. That 388 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: guy's not in sign. That is total b s. He 389 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: murdered her and he had the wherewithal to go hide 390 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 1: her body and stay quiet as the search for her 391 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: raged on around him. And my point being, you look around, 392 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: you don't know who's legit and who was like Chanelle Lewis. Well, 393 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: there were signs. There were a lot of signs. I 394 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: mean he was he was, excuse me. And when he 395 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: was in high school, you know, he actually got put 396 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 1: into a special school for troubled students, for troubled children, 397 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: for troubled kids because he had behavioral issues and he 398 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: was doing well in high school. But when he got out, 399 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: his family dropped the ball. He no longer went to therapy, 400 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: he no longer took his medication, and they just used 401 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: to let him roam the streets at night. He was 402 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: a chicking time bomb. That's exactly right. You said it, 403 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: exactly agree right. That's what he was, and you mentioned 404 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: it before. He was definitely a serial killer. In the 405 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: making Crime Stories with Nancy Grace guys two years and 406 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: literally thousands of individuals, whether they were part of investigations, prosecutions, 407 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: or cases that I covered. People I met that changed 408 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: the course of criminology, like Phil Vatrano, are all in 409 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: this book. My proceeds going to National Center Missing Exported Children. 410 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: Don't be a victim. Fight back against America's crime wave. 411 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: Fight back against the Chanel lewis Is of this world 412 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: lying in wait. You have heard about Karina, You've heard 413 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: about Molly. Listen to this. A murdered Midlothian woman was 414 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: remembered as a devoted mother who motivated others. Forty five 415 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: year old Missy Beavers was found dead inside Creekside Church 416 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: of Christ's last Monday. Police say she was ambushed and 417 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: died from a blow to the head. At her funeral 418 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: yesterday and walks a Hatchee, family and friends described Beavers 419 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: those she loved her for fitness. First, she was alom, 420 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: she was just she was a mom, and she loved everybody, 421 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,479 Speaker 1: and she loved her husband a babysit when they had 422 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: date night, and this is just very difficult. Police are 423 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: still looking for the person who killed Missy Beavers. Midlothian 424 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: Police released more surveillance video Friday of the person walking 425 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: around Creekside Church of Christ wearing police tactical gear. That 426 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: person is believe to be the one who killed Beavers. Well, 427 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: of course it is here. You've got Missy Beavers, a 428 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: mom of several little, beautiful little girls. She was teaching 429 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: gladiator training classes. This woman is so fit and where 430 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: else could you be safer. She's in a very small town, Midlothian, Texas, 431 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: and she goes to teach the class at the church 432 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: at about four or five o'clock in the morning so 433 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: other moms can come and work out before they take 434 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: their children to school. She is attacked in the church 435 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: and murdered. You were listening to our friend Justin Shannon 436 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: Murray at KDFW Fox four talking about the death of 437 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: this mom, Missy Beavers, straight out to Dave Mattcrime online 438 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, what happened in the Missy Beavers case. 439 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: It's still open, Nancy. It's one of those I hate 440 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: to call a murder a mystery, okay, like it's some 441 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: kind of entertainment. What happened here is there was surveillance 442 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: video inside the church. As you mentioned, Missy Beavers was 443 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: there to teach a class. She arrived at four twenty 444 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: that morning to the church. By five oh six she'd 445 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: been murdered. On that surveillance footage, police were able to 446 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: see some person. I can't even say it's a man. 447 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: It was an individual approximately five foot two to five 448 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: foot six, dressed in tactical gear. Police swat tactical gear 449 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: at about three fifty that morning, roaming the hallways of 450 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: this church. We know that Missy got there at four twenty, 451 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: and we know at some point in time Missy came 452 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: in contact with this individual walking around that church, breaking 453 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: windows and doing other assorted things. And by five oh 454 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: six that morning, her students taking her exercise class called 455 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: nine one because she was dead. Ye. That goes back 456 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: to when Carina or Molly they were jogging on their 457 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: own and an isolated area. Here, Molly, Missy Beavers is 458 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: going into a completely empty church at a very odd 459 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: hour when no one is out in about four o'clock 460 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: in the morning. This does not mean you have to 461 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: stop living the life the way you live it, but 462 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: be careful. For instance, if you have to run at night, 463 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: minimize your risks to a route you've run before so 464 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: you know the pitfalls and the danger areas. If you 465 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: can run in a neighborhood of homes, why because most 466 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: likely people are home, not in a rural area, which 467 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: I've done many times, where there's nowhere to run too. 468 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: I remember when the woman I started this program with, 469 00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: Julie Love, was out jogging. She realized she was being followed, 470 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: so she ran up to a house. It was in 471 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: the middle of the day, nobody was home, but she 472 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: pretended to be going in the home. Her purps waited 473 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: until she came out, and that's when they attacked her. 474 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: But you've got a better chance in a neighborhood of 475 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: houses that you can't approach. If long work hours make 476 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: it impossible to run during the day, just consider working home, 477 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: out at home or at a gym. To phil Va, Toronto, 478 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: Karna's father. Here, you've gotten Missy Beavers, who, for Pete's sake, 479 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: taught gladiator classes. Have you seen a picture of her 480 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: her biceps? I bet they're bigger than yours phil Va, Toronto, 481 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: and you are fit. I mean this woman was so buff. 482 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: If it had been a fair fight, she would have won. 483 00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, just like with Karina. So no matter 484 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: how fit you think you are, you're not a match 485 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: for somebody that takes you by surprise, comes up from behind, 486 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: or sucker punches you. That's why the only way you 487 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: can fight Bat is to follow tips and be careful. Now, 488 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 1: speaking of your route, I don't know if this name 489 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: rings a bell to you, but it does to me. 490 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: Allie Bruger, take a listen to our friends at w 491 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,280 Speaker 1: x y Z seven Detroit. It was on a Saturday 492 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: afternoon in July when thirty one year old Ali Bruger 493 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: was abruptly shot and left for dead during a routine 494 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 1: ten mile run on fish Lake Road in Holly. Three 495 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: years since her passing, and her parents say the pain 496 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: of losing their only child hits just as hard today 497 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: as the day they learned she would never come home. 498 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: And this happened our life. There's no Jilly, just nothing. 499 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: Her mother, Nikki, still drives her daughter's old red Hundai 500 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: as a way, she says, to keep her close while 501 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: her father struggles to face a new normal. You think 502 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,399 Speaker 1: of like maybe she's on vacation of something, she's at work, 503 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 1: and so on. Don't you don't really think about it 504 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: that she's gone for good. She worked hard to be 505 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: a nurse, she worked hard to Thomas complete that masters 506 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,919 Speaker 1: and for somebody to just snuff out her life like that, 507 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: just for what reason? I need to know why the 508 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: case still unsolved. Ali had gone running on a Saturday. 509 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: It was July thirty, twenty sixteen, and this is significant. 510 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: It was a familiar route. She had been jogging almost 511 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: every day for the past ten years. It was two 512 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: thirty Broad, a daylight, herself, no theft, no rate that 513 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: we know of. What was the motive? She was gunned 514 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,800 Speaker 1: down on this route? And that is why I advise 515 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: change your route. You know, every day when I go 516 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,720 Speaker 1: jogging or running, I turn the same way. I always 517 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: turn left, I do the same loop. Once in a 518 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: while I take a different route home. That's totally not 519 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: a good idea. Explain it, Joseph Scott Morgan. You know, 520 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: people will become particularly if you you know, I use 521 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 1: the word predator a few moments ago, Nancy. The idea 522 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: is that These people watch. They watch for recurrent patterns. 523 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,479 Speaker 1: You know you mentioned the gazelle at the watering hall. 524 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: They watch to strike at any moment in time, and 525 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: by not readjusting, they can time what you're gonna do, 526 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: day after day after day, and no wait till it's 527 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 1: at their advantage to strike when no one else is around. 528 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: By varying that pattern, you throw them off. You don't. 529 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: They don't know where you are when you're going to 530 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: leave the house. This was a predictable route that Ali 531 00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: Bruger took every single day. Now her parents not only 532 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: are left wondering what happened, but are waiting for justice 533 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: to play out. This book is not to scare you. 534 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:14,240 Speaker 1: This book is based on thousands of cases compiled together 535 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: to arm you with evidence that may save your life. 536 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,879 Speaker 1: You know what, after my fiancee's murder, my life didn't 537 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: mean very much to me. I would do anything, regardless 538 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: of the risk. But now that I have the twins, 539 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: I'm dedicating my life to protecting them as long as 540 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: I can, and that means having a mother. Don't be 541 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: a victim. Fight back Nancy Grace's Crime Stories, signing off, 542 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,