WEBVTT - Face to Face [8] 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:05.840 The Butcher of Moss is released weekly absolutely free, but 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.000 you can binge the entire season now with iHeart True 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:13.160 Crime Plus exclusively on Apple Podcasts. You'll also get ad 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:16.680 free listening and exclusive bonus episodes, So head to Apple 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:23.880 Podcasts search iHeart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.240 The views and opinions expressing this podcast are solely those 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.480 of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:37.239 and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, or 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:41.440 their employees. This podcast also contains subject matter which may 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.840 not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:59.480 It's a hotter than usual summer day. I'm pulled over 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:02.280 on this side of the road, confirming an address in 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.959 Google Maps as I try to figure out how to 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:12.480 get to my destination. I see I've come to the 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:16.480 south of Belgium, to a small village where I'm meeting Morgan. 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:20.440 But we're off to a slow start, just. 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:21.600 Arriving here now. 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:28.959 In the village where Dania lives, and it happens to 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:33.160 be a big village and party going into ville. The 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:38.240 entire village is cordoned off for a summer festival. Hundreds 0:01:38.240 --> 0:01:40.720 of people are gathered for a re enactment of an 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:46.360 eighteenth century military parade. The soldier's uniforms and cobbled streets 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:51.000 are a site right out of Napoleon's time. Military parade 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:55.040 with something old military Napoleon style. I have to admit 0:01:55.600 --> 0:02:04.320 it all feels a bit surreal. I meet Morgan in 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:06.760 the center of the village and we weave our way 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:11.760 through the re enactment, headed towards an address just minutes away. 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.960 For me, it's the culmination of months of work from Morgan. 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.600 It's years of investigation that land us at this doorstep. 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:28.600 The stakes are high because we're about to come face 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:32.240 to face with a man who may well be the 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:33.320 Butcher of Moss. 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:50.480 I can't belie mysteriously. 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:57.760 As they disappearance of a woman from mont. 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:03.960 A condition of the victims was sickening. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.800 And the question remains, where is the killer? 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:21.240 From Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Podcasts, I'm your host, Matt 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:25.360 Graves and this is Lea Monstre Season two, The Butcher 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:31.919 of Moss. Our investigations into a man named George, who 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.000 you'll recall Morgan tracked down led us to believe that 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:39.800 he was the man seemingly stalking Jacqueline, identifying George led 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:43.320 us to another man, who are calling Danielle, And what 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:47.440 we've learned about Danielle does not disappoint. It started with 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:51.440 a conversation at Le Metropol between George and Danielle that 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:56.560 was also overheard by Madame Ganche. In this conversation, Danielle 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.040 was said to have shown his hands to George and 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:02.280 stated something the effect of I have blood on my 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:06.720 hands or these hands have killed more than once. As mentioned, 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.400 George reported this conversation to the police and Danielle was 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.560 summoned to the Gendarmerie for an interview. Instead of being 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:17.159 surprised by the judicial police who were actually investigating the case, 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.479 we believe at the time between the initial summons and 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.640 the interview was two to three days. 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.760 The judicial police learned that the Gendarmerie issued a summon 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.960 to daniel and they arranged it so they could take 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:37.760 over the interview. So they actually went to the Gendarmerie 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:41.040 and picked him up when he arrived there and took 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:43.440 him to their station where he was interrogated. 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:46.880 Alison que what struck the. 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:50.120 Investigators first of all was his attitude. He was being 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:55.279 questioned about a particularly atrocious series of crimes, and he 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.480 didn't seem to take any offense to it. They were 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:00.720 expecting that he would p the test is in a 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:03.440 sense that he would be outraged at the idea that 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.400 he could be a suspect, but it wasn't that at all. 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.160 He was particularly calm and in full control of his emotions. 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.720 Upon learning that he was being questioned about the trash 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.600 bags full of body parts, he said, let the chess 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.800 game begin. They felt like he was taunting them, which 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.440 certainly roused their suspicions. They obtained a warrant to search 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.960 his residence, and the more they investigated, the more suspicious 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:31.640 they became. Okay, we are just left the Rue de 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:35.279 vande Velde and were approaching a house that we think 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.280 one of the suspects was living in at the time. 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.960 I'm standing in front of the house that Danielle lived 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.599 in at the time of the murders. We're on the 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:52.080 street where the bodies were dropped off on the twenty 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.159 second of March. If you go about five hundred meters 0:05:56.440 --> 0:06:00.560 away from that place and you land right in front 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:03.440 of this house. The particular thing about this house is 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.960 that there is a garage opening on the side of 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:08.599 the house, because this is you know, we're in the 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:10.560 center of Europe here, so all of the houses are 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:14.880 joined because there's no backyards or anything like that. So 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.120 we're on a sidewalk and there's like a row of 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:22.440 houses that are all joined next to each other, and 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:26.360 you have a one of the houses that has sort 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.600 of a side garage where you could drive in and 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:35.760 then around the back where someone could discreetly drop off bodies. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:40.039 Must let's be clear. So the thought is that what 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.680 he could have very easily done would be to drive 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:49.680 a car down this road, turn into this garage here, 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.280 and then just turn around the corner and be completely 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.520 hidden from anyone or anything. And this is pretty much 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:58.880 the only house in this street that you could do 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.440 that with. And so if it does turn out to 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:03.880 be where he was living at the time, that's quite 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:08.440 interesting for you. When police searched his house, it was 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.760 apparently spotless. They even went to the lengths of stripping 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.280 out his plumbing, presumably looking for blood or other evidence 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.680 of disposal. What they found instead was that his pipes 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.960 had apparently been cleaned with acid. They even searched his 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.800 utility records which showed that he'd consumed unusually high amounts 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.520 of water the previous year. His computer was also searched, 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.640 but the hard drive had recently been wiped clean it. 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:36.720 Forensic specialists were able to recuperate the deleted files, which 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:41.200 included a digital sex game, pornographic videos, and, most worryingly, 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.480 nude photos that Daniel had taken of a woman. The 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.640 pictures appeared to investigators to be more like an anatomic 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.600 study than pornography, including close ups of intimate body parts. 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:55.400 There were no photographs of the victims found. They also 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.680 obtained a warrant to search his workplace and cross references 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.440 schedule with the crimes. Employee records indicated that he was 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:06.480 never at work when the disappearances occurred. Apparently, he kept 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.800 his call throughout the interviews, with the exception of one moment. 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:15.200 Frederic Law explainski. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:17.160 Particular moment he was completely in control of his emotions 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:22.080 during the interrogation, which surprised the investigators. Lucal moment and 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.120 the only moment where he lost his nerve was when 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.760 the confronted him with the testimony of two servels from 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.880 bars near the train station who said they saw him 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.880 together with one of the victims, in this instance, Martin 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.680 Bud and he lost his cal He flew off the 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.160 handel and insulted them. It was the only moment that 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.599 he completely changed his attitude. 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:48.720 Danielle categorically denied having known any of the victims, and 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.040 police were never able to validate that he did. However, 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.880 we've recently collected compelling new testimony from Madame Ganche that 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.040 she never shared with police. She said she never shared 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.840 it because she was so annoyed by being accused herself 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:04.199 that she stopped speaking with the police altogether. 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.560 You know what, I'm going to tell you something. I 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:14.800 had daniel here one evening Champ He came to get 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:16.000 a room with Natalie. 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.319 She explains that Danielle rented a room with a victim, 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:25.240 Natalie Godar, at her hotel Metropolis. 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.600 He came in here and walked straight up to me 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.600 and asked for a room. He was wearing a trench 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.640 coat like people wore at that time, a greenish trench coat, 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:37.320 and he asked for a room for him and his 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:42.400 guest Jack, and I thought, what's he doing with her? 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.600 It was right around that time, nineteen ninety six, because 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:54.840 she was dead a few weeks later, I received them here. 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:58.600 At least once. I didn't see him fitting with her. 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:05.640 The couple didn't go together. Natalie was tall, but well, 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:09.000 she wasn't all that much. She never wore makeup, and 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.199 she drank her beers and that was enough for her. 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:13.880 And he was a tall and handsome man. 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.720 I asked her if she was sure it was Danielle. 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.040 Yes, Yes, it was daniel Yes, a tall and elegant man. 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:23.840 It was him. 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.520 In nineteen ninety six, Danielle was thirty five years old. 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.079 He worked as a machine technician at an industrial company 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.000 where he mostly did shift hours and would frequently get 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.760 off at around ten pm and then spend the entire 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:41.000 night out drinking in the train station neighborhood. Multiple witnesses 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.319 from the bar and hotel scene at the time had 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:47.240 already placed Danielle with one victim, Martin Bone, and now 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.679 Madame Ganche just placed Danielle with a second victim, Natalie 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:55.680 go Dard new information that authorities never received. As we 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.560 combed through the original investigation to learn as much about 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.840 the evidence as possible, we discovered that police received a 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.640 tip from a homeless man named Renee who claimed to 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.560 have seen a suspicious vehicle at one of the dumb sites. 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:12.320 Again Frederic Law so as the Alipok. 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.000 This homeless man was interviewed at the time by the 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.199 unit investigating the case and he said that he witnessed 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:21.720 suspicious activity near the path of Wherri where some of 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:22.800 the torsos were found. 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.559 Didischman like you, jud Dave Guldnuvau Team Breck. 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.760 He said he saw a station wagon making suspicious trips 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.760 back and forth. As I'm not sure if he gave 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.520 the exact model, but he gave a clear description of 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.560 the vehicle as being a dark colored station wagon. 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:44.000 You'll recall that the investigative journalist, Frederic Law, is originally 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.320 from moss and since we've been reinvestigating the case, he's 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.840 been reaching out to friends and contacts to look for 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:54.320 potential witnesses who never reported information to police. We've recently 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:59.679 obtained no testimony about suspicious sightings of a station wagon. 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:02.920 Companion, my partner at the time, went to buy cigarettes. 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.520 It was the month of March and it was dark 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:10.320 outside and he went to a convenience store and on 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.439 his way back from getting cigarettes, he was on the 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:16.079 riv Underveld and he had to swerve because a car, 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.200 a station wagon was parked on the side halfway in 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:23.199 the road and a person was throwing trash backs down 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:30.920 towards the ditch. He passed the car and had time 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:35.920 to see the silhouette of a person, a man alone 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:36.840 in a station wagon. 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:38.680 He thought it was dark in color. 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.480 And he went home and then went out again later 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:46.400 driving towards Mons and he was stopped by police. It 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:49.680 was a basic traffic stop, and he recalls saying to 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.320 the police that instead of bothering him, they should go 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.040 get the guy who was dumping trash backs in the ditch, 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.160 and police didn't follow up because they were doing some 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.480 other control for speeding or an alcohol test, I'm not sure. 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.760 And afterwards, when the sacks were discovered, he made the connection. 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:08.480 He never went to report it because he had a 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.599 tense relationship with the police. 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:12.839 La Veules. 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.400 He told me that in his mind, in any case, 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.319 he believes he saw the trash backs being deposited by 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:21.120 the butcher. 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:23.559 Of Moss because it was during the month of March 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.040 nineteen ninety seven, shortly before the first discoveries at the 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.319 exact same spot. The man was convinced he witnessed the 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.840 butcher of Mons disposing of body parts in those trash bags. 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.679 He's also convinced that the butcher of Mons drove a 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:40.520 dark colored station wagon, corroborating the testimony of Renee, a 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.599 witness from the original investigation. Before learning about the significance 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.920 of the dark colored station wagon, Morgan made some discoveries 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.120 that didn't seem significant at the time. As he collected 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.760 testimony for his book, he spoke to a man who 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:55.400 lived near the dumping grounds. 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.680 Luteman record of the witness. 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.600 I spoke to explain that when you crossed the bridge 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.760 on Rue vander Velda, near where the discoveries were made, 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:06.360 there's a small street on the. 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:11.800 Right annum Nito opel brech Dontru. 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.000 Shortly before the trash bags were found, he noticed a 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.720 man meticulously cleaning out an Opal station wagon in this 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.920 street where the witness lived himself, and it jumped out 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.840 at him because the man didn't live in his street. 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.560 The witness said he noticed the man cleaning the Opal 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.000 station wagon because it was in front of a vacant 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.800 house that wasn't his. Unfortunately, he couldn't remember what the 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.960 man looked like at the time. Of the murders. Not 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.720 only did Danielle live near this witness and in close 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.760 proximity to the dumping grounds, but we also recently learned 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.400 from a source close to the investigation that he drove 0:14:46.440 --> 0:15:03.160 a dark colored Opal station wagon. In twenty twenty two, 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.000 Morgan published his book on the Butcher of MOUs case 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:10.120 titled Ile moens sanc monquete sur le depasur de Moss 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.880 or in English, its Five to the Hour Investigation into 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:17.040 the Butcher of Moss. The title of its five to 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.600 the hour refers to the fact that at the time 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.960 of publication, the investigation had five years to go before 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:26.760 reaching its statute of limitation and being definitively closed, which 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.480 is set to happen in twenty twenty seven. He spent 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:35.520 years building relationships, interviewing witnesses, and developing sources, some confidentially. 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:39.560 Before he knew of Danielle's existence, several leads emerged that 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.000 put Morgan on Danielle's trail. Many of those leads came 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.720 from le Metropoles, where Morgan spent countless hours speaking with 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.120 Monique and anyone else connected to the station area during 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.720 the time of the murders. At first his efforts to 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:56.479 engage were met with wariness. Only after locals grew accustomed 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:58.960 to seeing him regularly at the bar did some begin 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.200 to open up. One woman he'd seen at Le Metropole 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.680 several times kept very much to herself and clearly didn't 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.320 want to speak with him, But after some encouragement from 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:12.560 Madame Ganche, she finally relented. Even after all these years, 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.400 she still apprehensive because the killer is still out there. 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.640 After gaining her trust, she shared disturbing circumstances involving a 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:23.360 woman named Guile, a potential survivor of the Butcher of Moss. 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.320 These are her words, not her voice. 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.280 I know that some time before she had been approached 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:31.560 by a man with whom she had spent a few days. 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.480 I didn't pay much attention at the time, but not 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.760 long after I was surprised not to see her anymore. 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.200 That began to worry me, so I went to the 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.400 police to report her disappearance. The man with whom she 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:47.720 stayed was Danielle. After reporting Guile missing, he came to 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:49.920 find me at the bar where I was working at 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.960 the time. He stormed into the place. He was tense, 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.280 upset and sweating all over in an aggressive tone. He 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.960 told me I shouldn't have reported her missing because it 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.800 had caused him serious problems. I felt threatened. I'd never 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.879 seen him like that before. I assumed his violent reaction 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.080 was linked to the report I had made to the police. 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.880 Since learning about Danielle, Morgan did door to door inquiries 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.440 in the street where he lived at the time. It's 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.520 been almost thirty years, so it was a bit of 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.640 a hail Mary. But on one of his last door 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.720 knocks he spoke with a couple who recalled a worrying 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:26.720 encounter with a young woman in distress. Unfortunately, the couple 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:28.000 didn't want to be recorded. 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:33.640 Morgan explains, it's a couple that lived in the Rue 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.080 van der Velda at the time of the murders, and 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:40.040 even before they couldn't recall the exact timing. Just in 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.879 front of their house there's a small park and one morning, 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.840 very early, there was a woman there, half naked and exposed, 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:51.200 who appeared inebriated and she was frantically repeating that someone 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:56.400 was trying to hurt her. They took her into their 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.040 house and she was in shock, so they called the police, 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.080 who came and picked her up. It was on the 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.880 Act to do and this couple lived directly next door 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.360 to daniel but they couldn't say if she had been 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:08.000 at his house. 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:12.440 Although I don't have definitive proof, it's my professional opinion 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.240 that this woman was Guiles, and I believe that the 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:20.280 quote someone trying to quote hurt her was Danielle. After 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.959 Giles's friend whose words we just heard, reported her missing, 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.640 she was actually located by police and Brussels. They tried 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.440 to question her about the incident, but she was unable 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:34.719 or unwilling to discuss it. Xavier looked into giles past 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:38.120 to learn more about her lifestyle then and her whereabouts now. 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.240 In nineteen ninety six, she would have been twenty seven 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.159 years old. It appears that she didn't have a fixed 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.320 residence and was basically living in the streets. I was 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.200 able to find trace of her existence via family members 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:54.280 on Facebook. 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:56.760 For two. 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.600 When I finally found a picture of her from the time, 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:02.720 she looked like a face you would have seen on 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.800 the model board for this case, very similar to some 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.520 of the other victims, a profile much like Natalie Goda, 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:13.320 actually leaving rough spending time in the streets and bars 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:14.000 around the station. 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.040 Gile had a long history of psychological issues which had 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:21.919 taken a turn for the worse. After the incident, we 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.600 of course wanted very much to speak with Gile, but 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.280 Xavier was able to establish that she passed away in 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:33.720 twenty twenty two. Back when writing his book, Morgan had 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.399 heard about a woman who was viciously attacked by a 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.720 man who actually worked as a butcher in Moss. It 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.520 would be cruel irony if the Butcher of Moss turned 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.240 out to be an actual butcher. In any case, the 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.880 story piqued Morgan's interest, and he set out to find 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.359 the woman who had been assaulted. It turned out that 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:52.720 she was the victim of a brutal attack where a 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.320 man attempted to cut her throat in the street with 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.600 a knife. The perpetrator was convicted of the crime, but 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.040 it was established that he couldn't be our Butcher of 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:05.080 Moss given his age and alibis. However, the same woman, 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.760 who was a sex worker at the time, told Morgan 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.520 about another negative experience with a different man, a man 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:13.680 named Danielle Queen. 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.840 I spoke with another woman who lived in the train 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:22.640 station area at the time. She also had a similar 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:26.000 profile as some of the victims, and she's still very fragile. 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:29.879 Now I slowly gained her confidence, and she told me 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:36.800 about an experience she had with Danielle. After a day 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.760 of drinking in the bars, she got into a car 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:42.880 with him and it didn't go well. She can't remember 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:46.199 the exact circumstances or didn't want to say, but whatever 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:53.080 it was appeared to traumatize her and she did whatever 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.720 she could to get out of the car. She fought back, 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:58.120 and he stopped the car and she managed to jump out. 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.720 She couldn't discribe exactly what happened, but whatever it was 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.879 scared her and she wanted to escape, and it still 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:09.840 stuck in her memory. At first, I wasn't sure that 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.240 it was really our Danielle, but when she confirmed his nickname, 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.879 I knew it was him. 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.119 Through a deep dive into Danielle's past, we learned that 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:22.840 at the beginning of nineteen ninety seven, he moved in 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.159 with a woman who would later become his wife. After 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:30.320 they married, the butcher of Man's murders stopped. However, between 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.199 the time Danielle moved into his new girlfriend's house and 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:37.720 their wedding, there was one last murder, that of Begugnia Valencia. 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:41.000 Bogonia's case is somewhat of an outlier, as she didn't 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.040 disappear from the center of mass like the other victims, 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.840 but rather from the municipality of Framerie on the outskirts 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:51.440 of the city. Fremrie happens to be where Danielle's new 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.800 residence was. In fact, in order to drive to work, 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:57.440 he had to take the road where Bogognia was last seen. 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:03.400 The amount of circumstantial evidence pointing to Danielle's possible involvement 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.880 with these murders is overwhelming, yet he was never arrested 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:11.320 or charged. However, our investigation has uncovered new evidence that 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.679 police didn't know at the time. The testimony from Madame 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:17.720 Ganche stating that Danielle rented a room with Nettali Go 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:21.840 Daard at Le Metropol shortly before her murder, the sightings 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:24.479 of vehicles at crime scenes matching what he drove at 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:27.840 the time, New testimonies from women who had negative and 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:32.080 frightening experiences with Danielle, and his next door neighbor's account 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:34.920 of finding a half naked and terrified woman in front 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.680 of his house, claiming that someone was trying to hurt her. 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:41.760 Since our recent discovery of these elements, we've been working 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:45.480 towards trying to confront Danielle. At the very beginning, we 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:48.320 didn't even know his name, but through the dogged work 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:52.040 of Morgan, Frederic and Xavier, we found him. It was 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:55.800 difficult because he has zero online footprint. We found an 0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:59.159 address and Morgan spent a day doing reconnaissance around the area. 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:01.879 We didn't even have a picture of him, but Morgan 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:04.240 observed a man living at the address who fit the 0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:08.920 age and physical description. Separately, Frederic was able to track 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:13.040 down Danielle's estranged wife. She maintained that he had nothing 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:15.000 to do with the murders and asked for us to 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:18.760 leave them alone. After exhausting all of those angles, Morgan 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:22.679 mailed Danielle a letter another Hail Mary. But to our 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:25.800 great surprise, it worked and he responded to the email 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:29.240 Morgan provided. This is what brought Morgan and I to 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:35.920 the south of Belgium, where the episode began, navigating through 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:39.880 the cobbled streets of a village flanked by an unanticipated 0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:44.280 summer festival, making our way on foot to Danielle's residence. 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:53.360 Danielle knows we're making a podcast, but he doesn't want 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:57.080 to be recorded. However, we do have an accurate transcript 0:23:57.080 --> 0:23:59.680 of the interview. I want to build confidence with him, 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:06.040 so I explain that I'm recording our arrival. Only then 0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:08.760 I show him that I'm turning off the recorder, which 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:14.359 I do. His house is about a fifteen minute walk 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:17.240 away from the center of the village, nestled on a 0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:21.200 hillside and surrounded by lush greenery. He welcomes us politely 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:24.080 and we sit down around his dining room table. He's 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:26.960 rather tall in his mid sixties, and you can tell 0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:30.400 he was probably quite strong in his younger years. However, 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:33.840 he's apparently had hard problems, and his physique bears the 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:38.040 unmistakable toll of decades of drinking. Indeed, it was ten 0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:40.520 am and he had already worked his way through a 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:42.720 good portion of a bottle of wine sitting on the 0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:45.840