1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Now. There's been a 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 1: lot of talk about housing lately, from the FED to 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: David Rubinstein's interview with John Paulson. I want to bring 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,959 Speaker 1: in somebody who runs a closed and fund invest primarily 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: and residential whole mortgages. Katherine Hawkins joins US portfolio manager 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: and senior vice president Vertical Capital Income Fund. So, Catherine, UM, 12 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: what kind of my main question is what kind of 13 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 1: risk are you seeing here for the return that you're 14 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: getting or what kind of return are you saying for 15 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: the risk that you're taking? Sure? I mean, I think 16 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: it really depends, you know, on what us A classes 17 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: in the mortgage industry or investing in UM. Single family 18 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: rentals right now are pretty hot. UM. They're producing the 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: highest returns really UM, and that's with investors chasing yield 20 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: and kind of this low rate environment. UM, you're still 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: looking at a first lean on a residential mortgage. UM, 22 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: so as far as you know the risk profile, UM, 23 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: your first in line. We're in the business of buying 24 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: the whole loans, so we're not investing in any pools 25 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: or tranches. UM. We own the servicing rights as well. 26 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: So UM, that's where we are focusing on really right 27 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: now as a single family that that makes a lot 28 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: of sense. And I could see UM single family rentals 29 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: being a great investment when you step back and look 30 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: at the whole market right now, how does it strike you? 31 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: Because it seems like everyone wants to buy a house, 32 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: Prices are going as high as they can and people 33 00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: are just paying as much as they can borrow. UM. Well, 34 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: I don't know that I necessarily agree with all of 35 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: that we have UM. You know, home ownership is actually 36 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: down since two thousand nine, UM, and we've got we're 37 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: seeing a lot more renters, especially in the younger generations 38 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: and millennial generation. UM. And you're seeing that too in 39 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: a start with covid UM and a surge of people 40 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: wanting more space, not wanting to be in the multifamily housing. 41 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: So you're seeing kind of people moving out of that 42 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: live work play area and looking for single family renter 43 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: rental homes. Catherine talks to us about the credit quality 44 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: of the market that that you play in. What are 45 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: you seeing now in terms of credit quality? Yeah, I 46 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: think that's the big difference between kind of a surge 47 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: right now and and back you know, subprime eras is 48 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: really you're seeing seven hundred and above ficos um. You know, 49 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: the credits guidelines and lending practices are tighter than they 50 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: have been in a while. UM, So we're really we're 51 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: looking at seven D seven fifty ficos um and generally 52 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: like a sixty percent LTV on the property. What about 53 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: the feds involvement here, the asset purchases that they've been making, 54 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: Is it hurting your ability to provide more returns? It's 55 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: really not so. Again, we're buying a whole loan. Um, 56 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: we have a whole loan portfolio. The tapering, you know that, 57 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 1: I think we're not going to see any significant um 58 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: change in rate due to tapering, um, you know anytime soon. 59 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: I think race will stay the same um, you know, 60 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: And that's it's always going to drive you know, to 61 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,839 Speaker 1: kind of get creative on structure and leverage to find 62 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: some yield and return. So I'm starting to hear I 63 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: think maybe on the radio some of the return of 64 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: zero down mortgages UM. That kind of gets my radar up. 65 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: Having lived through the financial crisis, should we be concerned 66 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: about for two and a half million, Yeah, yeah, UM, 67 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: it concerns me to UM. Luckily, it's not a big 68 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: program UM and very few groups are offering it. And 69 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: then it is different than subprime, you know, than we 70 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,119 Speaker 1: saw kind of the nina UM you know, in subprime 71 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: programs that were out there. The credit um is a 72 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: lot higher. I think it's a seven sixty minimum credit 73 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: limit to these, and it is basically an so you're 74 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: really financing your down payment on those UM. One of 75 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: the biggest differences that I take a little bit of 76 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: comfort in is that these are fixed rate loans UM. 77 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: They do not have a balloon payment uh and so 78 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: there's not going to be any kind of or a 79 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: pre payment penalty for that matter, and so there's not 80 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: going to be a really a big payment shocked to 81 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: any of the borrowers. I think it really weeds out 82 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: some of the borrowers that are trying to get in 83 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: in the beginning. What do you think about the way 84 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: the fund has traded on the n Y s C. 85 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: I mean, UM, it's obviously you don't expect to see 86 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: much volatility in this kind of fund, and yet even 87 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: with the pandemic you saw big drop. People took advantage 88 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: of it quickly and its snapped almost back, but it's 89 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: still it's got yet to come back to the two levels. 90 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: That's right. We did see a pretty big drop in 91 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: the stock price with UM the onset of COVID, which 92 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: I think was kind of in line with all markets 93 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: really in general. UM. And you know, the the volatility 94 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: in our fund is that we're just it's not a 95 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: big market share, right, so we've got a few and 96 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: but UM institutional investors that trade in and trade out. 97 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: It's really more of a long term play. What's the 98 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: concerning your market, Catherine? Thirty seconds left here? Uh, if 99 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: rates will in fact start to rise here, you know, 100 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: for us, we're buy and hold, so we'd redeploy any 101 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: capital that you know, we get back and remit. UM. 102 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: We're starting to see a slowdown and re fis, but 103 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: it's too early related to tell if that was just 104 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: kind of a come down as the summer season. Um, 105 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: and if that will really continue. Um, but really for 106 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: us slow down and refisum real red just redeployed capital, 107 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: you know, in the current rate environment. All right, Catherine, 108 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Katherine Hawkins, portfolio 109 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: manager and Signior vice president of Vertical Capital Income Fund 110 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: UH close and fund that invests primarily in residential whole 111 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: mortgage loans and whole loan secured by deeds of trust. UH. 112 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: The investment objective there is to seek income and for 113 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: a lot of investors looking at a you know, one 114 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: point three percent ten year yield, there is a need 115 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: for income. There is a need for yield in this market, 116 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: and clearly the mortage market is one place of interest. 117 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Honors. Harrison joins us right now, chief 118 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: investment Officer of Global Fixed Income at NOEU VENE. They 119 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: have one point to trillion dollars of assets firm wide 120 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: and are based out of gorgeous Charlotte, North Carolina. UM 121 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: and anders this is you know, obviously it's a personal 122 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: issue for me COVID and what's happening in terms of 123 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: travel restrictions, but it's got to affect um, the companies 124 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: that you cover, as well as uh, you know, the 125 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: the entire global economy. When you don't allow Americans to 126 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:22,559 Speaker 1: fly into Europe, it becomes a problem on so many levels. Yeah, 127 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Yeah, No, certainly, it's it's it's 128 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: a key the area that we were paying attention to. UM. Certainly, 129 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: the trends ofthing concerning and the reopening kind of type 130 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: uh trend that we've been seeing not just here in 131 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: the US but also globally is certainly could could become impacted. 132 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: And as you said, if if Europe starts becoming more 133 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: strict on you know, uh, you know, a scissors or 134 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: visitors in general, that certainly can have you know, both 135 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: an economic impact and behavioral impact as well. But I 136 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: would say, and when we take a quick step back 137 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: year of late the economic activity at least in the 138 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: US has not been quite as much affected on this 139 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: latest wave on the on the delta side as we've 140 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: seen in the past, and the high frequency data has 141 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: has sort of been showing quite minimal impact of consuming 142 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: consuming behavior so far, that could certainly change. And certainly 143 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: we're keeping an eye on return to school and how 144 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: that's going and even if they were delays to returning 145 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: to the office. But at this point, so far that again, 146 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: the high frequency data seems to be holding up quite well. 147 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: Certainly we're keeping an eye on on case counts and 148 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,559 Speaker 1: hospitalizations around on around the US and around the world, 149 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: where at least now we're seeing some of these desolation 150 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: in the latest numbers. Not to say that we're out 151 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: of the woods, far from it, but um, we're certainly 152 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: monitoring this risk. But at this point COVID has not 153 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: had a whole lot of impact on the fixed income 154 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: side of things at least, so worth monitoring obviously on 155 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: the top of mind for everybody, so that the company's 156 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: wearing less than um, but so far it's necessarily minimal impact. 157 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: We would say, just what was your takeaway from Jackson 158 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,359 Speaker 1: Hole last week? It's that, you know, the the signaling 159 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: factor seems to be pretty good from the FED. What 160 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: was your takeaway? Sure, yeah, I would say we would 161 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: we would probably call it a bit of a non event. Obviously, 162 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: it's felt like there was in line with what the 163 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: market was expecting and kind of hoping for, perhaps a 164 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: little disappointment of not getting more clarity around the actual 165 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 1: tapering timing. But we actually feel like General Powell handled 166 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: events very well, gave a little more assurance that tapering 167 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 1: is coming, and we sort of clarified and reinforced that 168 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: that there is a thought process of that likely that 169 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: could start before the end of the year. But at 170 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: the same time, he left himself with a lot of optionality, 171 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: be it looking at some of this additional economic data 172 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: coming up. Obviously jobs numbers on Friday would be quite key, 173 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: and even you know, a better read into what we 174 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: just mentioned about COVID and the delta variant potentially impact. 175 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: So all in all, we we we felt like he 176 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: handled well. I didn't really scoop the markets one way 177 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: or another. Um I think it was kind of interesting 178 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: to see that you had a lot of key speakers 179 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: from from the FED come out in the past week 180 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: or so with sort of a mix of views and 181 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: discussion points. But in the end, I think this reinforced 182 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: our view that you really, really mostly almost exclusively need 183 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: to listen to to Powell or with maybe Clarenda Williams 184 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: and Brainard, and those are the key people that are 185 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: really setting the tone here. So interesting to get to 186 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: take aways from other FED speakers, But ultimately power in 187 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: this core team is what truly matters. Here are they 188 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: are all the Hawks non voters. It's a bit of 189 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: a mix to be fair. And then as you guys 190 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: know it, kind of it's a moving target as well 191 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: as those are moving around. But but the key players 192 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: in our mind is again those kind of four power Clarada, 193 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: William some brain art um. And that's not to say 194 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 1: that everybody obviously has some influence and have views that 195 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: can can frame things up. But at this point um, 196 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: we cannot view this weekend's message from Powell in particular, 197 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: particularly that it was sort of adubblished tapering message, meaning 198 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: reinforced here what I said that it's on top of 199 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: mind they have kind of the four end of the 200 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: year time frame, but at the same time also reinforced 201 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: that the tapering timing and the interest rate hiking timing 202 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: or in completely supper timetable. So that had been some 203 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: market speculation again part be I think because some of 204 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 1: the other FED speakers being fairly aggressive and some of 205 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: their sound bites, so there has been some speculation and 206 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: maybe we can start reading into timing of the first 207 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: hike around when tapering would wrap up. But again I 208 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: think Powell came out he said it pretty clearly on 209 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: that that that shouldn't be the case, and he's separating 210 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: those two timetables completely. So again we kind of do 211 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: it as a dobish tapering that message at this point 212 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 1: and again gives them a lot of flexibility here and 213 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: could easily posse ab bit before rate hikes start. Uh, 214 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,839 Speaker 1: and kind of wrapping up the tabling. All right, Anders, 215 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us as always unders 216 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: person Chief Investment Officer of Global Fix Income at now 217 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: Vene based in Charlotte, North Carolina. As we watch markets 218 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: hit a new time a new all time high at 219 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: least the SMP five after what we saw in Jackson Hole. Um, 220 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: we should talk about what exactly that was pre a 221 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: misrab joins us Managing Director and Global head of Great 222 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: Strategy at t D Securities. Great having you on, Great 223 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: talking to you again. Um, what did you think that was? 224 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: Was that a dovish taper as it was sort of 225 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: referred to on the day. Hi Matt, thanks for having 226 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: me on. Yes, I think we heard not a new 227 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: message from chair Power, but certainly a message that they 228 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 1: are inching that the fat is inching towards taper, but 229 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: that they don't feel urgency either on the inflation front 230 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: on the labor market front to have to accelerate the base. 231 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,079 Speaker 1: We're also seeing very clear signs from the feather they're 232 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: trying to disentangle um tapering from hiking. I think they're 233 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: trying to prevent a taper tantrum. They've done a fantastic 234 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: job so far. We're three months away potentially from a taper, 235 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: at least in our foecast tapering happens in December, and 236 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: yet the bond market is table, equities continue to go up. 237 00:13:58,120 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: So I think what the FED is trying to say 238 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: is the corner me strong. The FED is starting to 239 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: take the punch pull away, but they're doing it in 240 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: such a gradual pace that it doesn't threaten the recovery. 241 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,599 Speaker 1: I think that's the message we got on Friday, and 242 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: now I would say it's much more important now what 243 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: happens to the economy and the economic outlook rather than 244 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: the FED reaction function. I think the FED is tried 245 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: hard to clarify that back and holding through other FED messages. 246 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: All right, for yourself, we are to look at the economy, 247 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: presumably labor is a big, big part of that. So 248 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: when we have obviously the jobs before coming up on Friday, 249 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: how do you think the FED is looking at this 250 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: labor market and what do you think they're kind of 251 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: what clues do you think they're looking for? Ye, so 252 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: I think they'd want to see the continued number of 253 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, non farm payroll numbers, so jobs created in 254 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: the economy. I think they'd want to see that continuing 255 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: to grow. We do expect to see that sign, but 256 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: our economists do have a slowing in the pace, a 257 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: pretty significant slowing. We've got four thousand pensylvan for Friday, 258 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: so that is much weaker than close to a million 259 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: that we saw last month. Some of it is a 260 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: seasonal issue, some of it is high frequency data we're 261 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: noticing is showing a deceleration in the job momentum. But 262 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: I think the FED would want to see continued job 263 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: growth plus people returning to the labor force. I think 264 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: that's been a big open question. You know, is there 265 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: a structure shift in the labor market or in our view, 266 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: this is more a function of the fact that we 267 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: have the extended unemployment benefits, or there's just lingering COVID 268 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: fears or the fact that schools won't reopen. I don't 269 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: think you get that sense from this report because this 270 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: is still August report. Really, I would say September and 271 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: October payroll report so released a month later, would be 272 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: more important. On that, you know, structural component of the 273 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: labor market. I think that will give the FED a 274 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: sense of true labor market slack. As long as there 275 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: a slack in the system, I think they want to 276 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: be extremely accommodative. If there's science that people are not 277 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: re entering the labor force, that they've left the labor 278 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: force for good, you know, retirements or people just there's 279 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: skills mismatch, I think then the FED may have to 280 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: accelerate that piece of exit because I will mean beige 281 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: in flame scan and sustainable price inflation will be on, 282 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: you know, will be sooner than they expect. But our 283 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: thought is that people do reent to the labor before. 284 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: So we are looking for a weaker number this Friday, 285 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: and I think that can make the market a little 286 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: bit nervous here if the recovery is derailing a little bit. 287 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: But we expect, you know, over the next couple of 288 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: months numbers to remain strong and that will allow the 289 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: fit to exit gradually. But I think that's really the 290 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: critical one. Well, this is the end of summer. I 291 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: mean you mentioned a high frequency data. We had a 292 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: great story overnight by Steve Matthews and Jill Shaw just 293 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: putting together a ton of charts from the data, and 294 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: the one that caught my eye was um airline travel. 295 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: It's just rolled over at the end of August. But 296 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, to be expected because you did hopefully some 297 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: kind of vacation June July. Um. You know, unless you're 298 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: Amy Morris who hasn't gone on vacations since May. Um. 299 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: What about the beginning of school? Does that? Does back 300 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: to school? You think push that day? The backup is 301 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: back to school. Three more moms and dads to get 302 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: out there and look for a job and obviously get 303 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: one right away. It is back to school. Change the picture. Yeah. 304 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: I think, particularly on the labor market front, in terms 305 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: of labor force participation, we do think back to school 306 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: will help because it will free up a lot of 307 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: people to come back and look for jobs. The Jewels 308 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: statu is suggesting the job openings are there, so you know, 309 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 1: employers have the job requirements out there. The openings are there, 310 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: we just haven't found the people willing to take it. Now, 311 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: the big question is is there a skills mismatch the 312 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: job openings out there versus the people that are re 313 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: entering the labor force. Is there a skills mismatch, which 314 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: is I think more concerning for the FED if that 315 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: does emerge, But I think there's enough jobs looking at 316 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: the Jewels Stata across the spectrum that if people re 317 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: enter the labor force as schools reopen, and I think 318 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: COVID does is a bit of a concern. If we 319 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: continue to see COVID cases rising, that might delay some 320 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: people re entering the labor force. But if we do it, 321 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: spect over the next couple of months, people re entering 322 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: these jobs getting filled, and that's a sign that there 323 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: is underlying labor market slack beyond just what the unemployment 324 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: rate shows. Thirty seconds, Um, I'm looking at the ten 325 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: year here, you know, one point three. It just feels 326 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: like we're range bound here. Is that kind of how 327 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna play out the rest of the year, do 328 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: you think? I think in the near term, yes, I 329 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: think we're in a one twenty five to fifty type range. 330 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: We are looking for higher rates by your end because 331 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: by then we think we'll have the evidence that people 332 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: are returning to the to the labor market, that Delta 333 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: maybe delayed the recovery but doesn't derail it, that the 334 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: FED starts to exit, we get more fiscal So by 335 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: year end we think we may be able to break 336 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: out of this range. But in the next few months, 337 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: while we still have questions about the economy and the 338 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: impact of delta, and the FED is being patient, we 339 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: think we stay fairly range bound on on the tenure. 340 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: All right, pray, thank you so much. We appreciate that 341 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: as always pre a Misraah, Manager, Director and Global head 342 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: of rate Strategy at TV Securities. Again a ten year 343 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: trading today about one point three zero percent. Well earlier 344 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: we heard a discussion some tape between John Paulson and 345 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: Mr Rubinstein uh in a discussion about Mr Paulson's view 346 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: of the markets are including crypto, and I want to 347 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: get Shannali Bastic's view on that. Chanale is the Wall 348 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: Street border for Bloomberg News joinings here in our Bloomberg 349 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: Interactive Broker Studios. So, Sally, I know you you saw 350 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: the interview. You saw the comments from John Paulson. What's 351 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: your takeaway there? Well, a few things. I covered Paulson 352 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: very very closely when he was working with Carl Icon 353 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: as an activist investor against a i G. It's like, 354 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: since two thousand and eight, everybody was waiting for John 355 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: Paulson's next big short, and we never really saw it. 356 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: But this is a very rare interview. He doesn't do 357 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: much public speaking at all. I've tried to doorstop him 358 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: personally at E C n Y conferences, and so it 359 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: is a rare kind of view into his world. One 360 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: of my favorite things he told David Rubinstein, though, is 361 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: that he didn't really love managing money for other people. 362 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: Remember now he runs his own money. It's billions of dollars. 363 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: But I thought I totally agree. I thought, um, it 364 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: was super fascinating, especially for those of us who you know, 365 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: lived through and covered the financial crisis or invested through 366 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: it for our listeners. Um, so fascinating to hear from 367 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: John Paulson. I did think that if you're a crypto investor, 368 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: you probably you couldn't you couldn't care any less what 369 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 1: he thinks about bitcoin, right, And he also hasn't made 370 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: any big bets um other than gold and steinway that 371 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: I know of. Is that wrong, Nale? Since since the 372 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: Big Short? Well, remember I had said I covered the 373 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 1: A G investment and so that was certainly a big 374 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: deal when that was happening. But to your point, no, 375 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: not like not like what he had done during two 376 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: thousand and eight. Nothing, nothing like that. And so you know, 377 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 1: John Paulson, who is he to a new generation? That's 378 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: a great question to me because and what can you 379 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: learn from what he's done? I think the reason I'm 380 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: so interested in what he said about investing is that 381 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: he said he didn't really like the business of business. 382 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: And so can you make more money just by yourself 383 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,959 Speaker 1: day trading crypto and not working at a big investment 384 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: fund or is investing the business of it still a 385 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: good business? Well, I think that's a great takeaway, because, 386 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: first of all, no one can ever reduce the enormity 387 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: of what Paulson did. I mean, I remember when the 388 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: Big Short came out, I expected it to be about Paulson, um, 389 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: you know, and it turned out to be about some 390 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: other players making similar bets. But I think even more 391 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: fascinating was the way John Paulson went about making his bet. 392 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: The people that he enlisted, they were kind of uh 393 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: lone wolves or people who were, you know, maybe very 394 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: smart and wouldn't necessarily need to be courting clients or 395 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: going on UM conference calls or helping other people deal 396 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: tax issues. I mean, this was this is about making 397 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: a big bet yourself and for your group, right, and 398 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: not really about Remember when he was starting out in 399 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: the hedge fund world, hedge funds were not what they 400 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: were today, right, It was a nascent industry, which is 401 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: why what he said reminds me so much of crypto guys. 402 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: There's no day that went back through the last two years, 403 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: almost now, the last eighteen months where I wasn't looking 404 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: for the new John Paulson, where I wasn't saying who 405 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: was making money off of this crisis that we've been 406 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: living through. Now, many different players, some of the same, right, 407 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: There are a lot of distress names, Apollo, oak Tree, 408 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: even Scott Minored at Guggenheim that made big money last 409 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: year just by betting on bonds at their lowest right 410 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: by the point hundreds of millions. But but there has 411 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: not been what John Paulson tells David Rubinstein an ace 412 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: metrical trade. Where can you be Yeah, you know, and 413 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: it was really what he's saying, really, what can you 414 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: take that is long lasting investing advice? He said something 415 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: that people have told David now a few times. Don't 416 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: invest in things you don't know about, right, no about 417 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: what you're investing. And people say that about crypto too. 418 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: If you're going to dive into salan, don't know what 419 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: it is. But also looking for asymmetrical trades, how how 420 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: rare that is to find something where you wouldn't lose 421 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: as much money on the downside. Yeah, it's interesting when 422 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: you hear people of the generation John Paulson talk about 423 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: crypto the way they do it and old guys. I 424 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: want to remind you he's not really very he's only 425 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: sixty five. I think in the context of crypto, that 426 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: feels to me. It feels to me a lot of 427 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: those investors may not necessarily get it if you will, 428 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: and maybe not necessarily want to put in the time 429 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: to develop a call on it. Um. That's kind of 430 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: a theme I think I hear from some of these folks. 431 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: As you know, I was driving the Pacific Coast Highway 432 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: all of last week listening to five podcast. Yeah, I'm 433 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: a total nerd listening to the parlance of the new 434 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: generation of finance. I just want to know about the 435 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: pc H. How was that. That's like a lifelong dream 436 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: of mine that I've never accomplished. I highly best. I 437 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: traveled once a month that I'm telling you, that was 438 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 1: the best that I had. Wow, and she got spent 439 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: some time in lovely Carmel, California. I did. I did. 440 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: Listening to d FI podcast, Well, I know what I mean. 441 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: I imagine doing in that trip in like um convertible Mustang. 442 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: What were you driving? A Ford Fusion rented so you're 443 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: able to get him in a car? Yes, we were able. 444 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: It was hard. I would recommend doing it way in advance. 445 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: And honestly, it was very empty. San Francisco was pretty empty. 446 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: That's what I hear. Yeah, by the end of it. 447 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: But we're not here to talk about San Francisco fell 448 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: sometimes we sometimes we diverge a little bit, and uh, 449 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: you know, it's very cool that. I mean, I agree 450 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: that the Paul's interview is fascinating. I was psyched to 451 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: watch it, and there were a couple of really interesting 452 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,479 Speaker 1: threads to pull from it, and it's great to hear 453 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: our Wall Street reporters take. But I also want to 454 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: hear her take on the Pacific Coast Highway because that's 455 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: just awesome. Greg Jarrett apparently did it an mg A 456 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: coup of seven n G A coup, which is an 457 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: awesome car to do that trip. I'll do it better 458 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: next time for you. Let's what you can do with Greg. 459 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can 460 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever 461 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter 462 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: at Matt Miller three. Put on fall Sweeney. I'm on 463 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney Before the podcast. You can always 464 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio