WEBVTT - The Manosphere 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.120 From the dark corners of the web. An emerging mindset. 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:06.000 I am a loser if also we know wouldn't pay 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:06.440 me either. 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:10.920 A hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women at 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:12.240 a deadly tipping point. 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.600 In Cells will be added to the Terrorism Guide. 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:18.560 I see literally zero hope. 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:24.040 This is In Cells, a production of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio, 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:30.200 Season one, episode six, The Manosphere. 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:37.360 The guy who invented Graham Crackers invented graham Crackers to 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.320 keep boys from masturbating. I kid you not. 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.040 In the then diagram of in Cells and Tate, the 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.080 circle where they intersect is rather large. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:47.240 Andrew Tate, I got a lot of thoughts on him. 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.960 Well, none of the role models that in Cells have 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:52.040 are positive. 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:58.000 I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at Kat's Studios with Stephanie Leideger, 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:04.680 Gabriel Castillo, Connor Powell, and Carolyn Miller. There's five point 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.479 five billion people online and nearly as many on social media. 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.720 It's how we get news, buy things, and connect with friends. 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.840 For the two point seven billion men online, It's also 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:23.639 where hate, abuse and misogyny spreads. It's seeping rampantly onto 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:28.240 school yards and into our homes. Thankfully, the manosphere is 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.760 coming to the forefront of conversations, even on daytime TV. 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.160 Here's a snippet from The Tammer and Hall Show, which 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.360 aired on Monday, April twenty first, twenty twenty five. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:43.920 According to the anti hate organization the Anti Defamation League, 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.560 the Menisphere is an online network aimed at men and boys, 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:52.160 often promoting harmful, rigid expectations of men, extreme misogyny, and 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.880 aggressive in cell culture. In cells are men who identify 0:01:55.880 --> 0:02:00.440 as quote involuntary celibate and blame female empowerment for their 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.680 lack of sexual experience, and as a result, whose hatred 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:05.840 and sometimes even violent against women. 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:11.280 Here's another excerpt. It's from The Late Show with Stephen Colbert. 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.160 It aired on Tuesday, June third, twenty five. 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.480 Men may be lonely, but modern society has a solution, 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:22.280 and you'll never get's the Internet. 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:23.799 It's the Internet. 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.919 Lately, I've been hitting the old doom swipe bees over here, 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.760 and my mangorithm has introduced me to all sorts of 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.000 new alpha friends, a wide world of podcasters and social 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.560 media influencers, and roided out in man cubes that comprise 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:41.760 the media landscape. That has been dubbed the manosphere, where 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:48.480 we men get to together to discuss professional sports, gambling, weightlifting, drinking, 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:50.359 drug use, and women. 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.720 The manosphere is a collection of digital spaces that claim 0:02:56.800 --> 0:03:02.280 to support men's challenges in areas like dating, fitness, and fatherhood. However, 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:07.440 many of these communities spread harmful narratives and advice. According 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:11.000 to the United Nations Secretary General's Report on Violenced against 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.640 Women and Girls, these groups share a common thread opposing 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:18.520 women and framing men as victims. Victimhood is something we've 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.160 spoken about in depth as it becomes one of the 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:26.520 most defining characteristics of many in cells personal identities. Here's 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:31.079 clinical psychologist, sex therapist and author doctor David Lay. 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.640 Manisphere is the term being used to describe these online 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:43.640 influencer types that are speaking directly to man and that 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.760 have larger audiences of men. Joe Rogan is one that 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.320 we can see has a tremendous amount of influence. We've 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:55.400 also got folks like Andrew Taate. And what's unfortunate is 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.120 that lots of these men are out there talking to 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.320 young males. They're not oftentimes putting out the healthiest messages. 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.480 They are oftentimes you know, talking about your more manly, 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:11.880 by being physically violent, by treating women in a dominant manner, 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:16.760 by not caring what women think. Unfortunately, they are encouraging 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.400 much more what we would you know, typically classify, as 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:25.039 you know, hostile masculinity. It is a sad, circular, self 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.960 fulfilling prophecy that puts these young meals at risk. 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.680 A lot of the messaging in the manosphere is hostile 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.480 and violent, but it's worth stating again that the absolutely 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:42.200 overwhelming majority of in cells are nonviolent. It's also worth 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.159 stating how pivotal it is to understand just what kind 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.960 of content and messaging is filling the minds of men 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.160 and shaping a new generation of boys. But it's not 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.640 just the men who are impacted. The effects on girls 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.320 and women is very real and very concerning. 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:03.279 In real life, there's a growing number of examples of 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:07.919 manisphere culture affecting interactions between boys and girls. It's like 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.520 little things like oh, you should be back in the kitchen, 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.359 and even though it's a joke, some people take it 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:14.039 really far. 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.719 There are games that I've stopped playing because every single 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.360 time I joined, I'd receive a rape threat. 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:26.320 Me and my former roommate were chased on campus by 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.520 two different men saying that they were going to have 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:30.719 a lot of fun with us that night. Those kinds 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:35.080 of things have migrated from online worlds into real life, 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.240 sometimes in ways that boys are just trying to be provocative, 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:42.240 sometimes in ways that are really dangerous stepping stones on 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:46.720 the way to more harmful and violent content and behaviors. 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:52.240 Here's criminologist and in cell expert doctor Sarah Daily. 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:59.279 So the manisphere is a collection of online sites and 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:04.960 communities where they prioritize men's issues. They can range from 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.560 in cells all the way up to men's rights activists. 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.920 You have pick up artists who try to manipulate potential 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.120 romantic partners. You have men going their own way who 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.200 just want nothing to do with women. They won't work 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.960 for them, with them, marry them, date them. Andrew Tait 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:24.520 would dislike everything about in cells. They are beta weak 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.359 men in his mind. They're just sitting around and whining 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.479 and crying, and that's against everything that he stands for. 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.760 The hashtag Andrew Tate has garnered billions of views, and 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.479 he was the third most searched person on Google in 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.919 twenty twenty three. You may not know who he is, 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:44.520 but ask any twelve to eighteen year old boy in 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:49.080 your life. Here's crime analyst Body Moven and Stephanie filling 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.200 us in on Andrew Tate, the King of the Manosphere. 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.240 A new study published in the Journal of Gender and 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.640 Education out of Canada is finding that boys are adopting 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:05.760 Andrew Tate's misogynistic views and bringing them into class, which 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:08.800 is quite alarming. Teachers worry that the rise in Tate 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:13.080 inspired misogynistic rhetoric will lead to tangible safety threats like 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.400 gender based violence in schools. So, who are the Tate brothers? 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:17.320 You've never heard of him? 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:17.600 Right? 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:22.040 So, Andrew Tate. He is a former four time kickboxing 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.920 world champion. He was on Big Brother in twenty sixteen 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.760 and he was kicked off because, as he was like 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.080 on the show, charges were being filed against him in 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.600 the UK for rape. The UK authorities have cited his 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:40.200 influence as terrifying, particularly in the context of radicalizing boys online. 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.080 And that's exactly what's happening. 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:45.120 Young boys too, middle schoolers in theory, right, middle I 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.560 would say probably starts around seventh or eighth grade. 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.760 Around that time, he moved to Romania in twenty seventeen, 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:54.160 saying in a now deleted YouTube post that forty percent 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:56.920 of the reason he chose Eastern Europe was because he 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.840 believed that sexual assault cases were less likely to be 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:03.680 in investigated there. He openly declares himself a misogynist dating 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:07.200 an interview, I'm absolutely a misogynist. There's no way you 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.960 can be rooted in reality and not be sexist. 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.160 Tate had a podcast on Spotify that was taken down 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:20.000 after ninety two thousand people signed a petition complaining about 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:23.440 the degree course he was offering. The title of the course, 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:28.480 pimping Hose Crime analyst Body Moven continues. 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:34.280 He's gotten banned from almost every single platform, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok. 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.600 He continues on X because X is kind of like 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:38.800 the wild wild West, Right, everybody can be on X, 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.800 but it's due to this promotion of this misogyny and 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:46.640 statements such as women should bear responsibility for being sexually assaulted. 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.320 Tate and his money making subscription channels have been pulled off. 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:57.280 YouTube and other platforms, with TikTok citing his hateful ideology. 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:01.360 He runs a webcam company, and he would show other 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.480 men or talk to other men about how to be 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:08.600 a sex trafficker and how to scam money out girls 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.480 in how women are your property and yes, you absolutely 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.080 should be making money and stealing from them. He moved 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.600 to Romania in twenty seventeen, right, and he was arrested 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.720 in twenty twenty two for sex trafficking seven women and 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:25.000 money laundering and rape. The Romanian courts abruptly reversed the 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.559 charges and allowed Tate to leave the country after several 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:32.400 high level Trump administrators took an official interest in this case. 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.559 Andrew Tate is a US citizen. He's got dual citizenship 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:40.080 with the United States. In Britain, a lot. 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.400 Of people think that Tate brothers tell it like it is, 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.400 that the younger generation needs role models like them to 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:51.760 be men, and that women overreact to tates messaging, and honestly, 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:56.959 it's pretty easy to understand what is so alluring about them. Specifically, 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.800 Andrew Tate is athletic, confident, and re He's often seen 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.200 with a bevy of women. And if you're sitting in 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.040 your room trying to sort through hormones in middle school, 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.400 or you're older and having trouble with confidence and women, 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:15.439 all of these things are appealing here again, body Movin, 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:17.520 followed by Stephanie. 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.800 I'd love to have a conversation about why, like what 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.880 specifically about the Andrew Tate ideology is helping young men 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.240 become men, because right now I don't think it's helping 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.560 at all, And I think that if fathers were more 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.080 involved in their children's life, they wouldn't need Andrew Tate 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:34.160 to help them become men. 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:39.960 Is Andrew Tate messaging something that is equal to saying, hey, 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.880 look yeah, sexually assault people ain't no thing right. That's 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:49.000 the scary part because even confident, well spoken, rich, affluent 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:53.520 people can still be extremely degrading and violent. It's in 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.600 the bones ideologically. How do we keep this conversation going 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.319 without shutting it down and being myopic about it? 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:06.680 I asked Boddy about Andrew Tate's brother, Tristan Tate. He's 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.600 thirty seven years old, just one year younger than Andrew, 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.320 and the two live very intertwined lives. 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.800 He runs the business with Andrew Tate. They have a 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.520 webcam studio where they employ as many as seventy five models, 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:22.400 and what they do is they just scam in out 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.520 of their money an online membership to the platform which 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:29.280 teaches men how to get rich quick. It's called Hustler's University, 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.640 and the other one is called the Real World that 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:33.240 serves like a really similar purpose. 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.520 Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 0:11:40.559 --> 0:12:04.079 a moment. We went to Hustler University's website. You can 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.240 get access to the services for forty nine dollars a month. 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.520 The website states we have proven results from members who 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.400 used to be just like you. The only difference is 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.600 that they took action, while most of you are still hesitant, 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.520 being afraid, and worrying that you may waste forty nine 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.880 dollars which you can spend on a night at the 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.720 bar with your broke friends. The first question in the 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.880 fac section is and I quote A, am I too 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:35.600 young to join the community? Answer? No, as long as 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.200 you have a device that connects to the Internet, you 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:42.800 can join us. Crime Analyzed Body Moven continues on how 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:45.920 affle Mail's Andrew and Tristan Tate collide with the in 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:50.800 cell community for reference, as many see the male hierarchy, 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:54.760 alphas are at the top, beta's below them in cells, 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.800 often placing themselves below the betas. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.680 And he self describes himself Christian Tate as a pimp. 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.160 I mean, they're not hiding it. These guys are not 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.560 hiding that they're pimps. But I want to quickly let 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.080 everybody know that Tape Brothers are not in cells. But 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:13.920 what is important to know is that they share like 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:18.080 really similar ideology. They're all kind of misogynistic, and you know, 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.880 some in cels admire Tate, seeing him as somebody who's 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:24.080 escaped this powerless male role that they feel trapped in. 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:27.600 So Andrew Tate and the Tape Brothers are not in cells, 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.000 but again they're in the then diagram of in cells 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.480 and Tate. The circle where they intersect is rather large. 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.840 Investigative producer Connor Powell spoke with Brian, a self described 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.480 in cell we've heard from in an earlier episode. Here's 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:44.000 Connor followed by Brian. 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.320 I'm curious, are there certain people within the community that 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.520 everybody looks to or thinks about good or bad? 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:54.640 Like? 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:55.520 I mean, are there are there. 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.319 Any positive real models or are there any really destructive 0:13:58.360 --> 0:13:59.000 role models? 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.240 I entretate, I got a lot of thoughts on him. 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.520 Well, none of the role models that in cells have 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.040 are positive. I'm thirty nine years old, so I'm one 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:13.439 of the older guys, and I've lived more life and 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.560 I'm a lot more calmer. So I have a better 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.160 moral and ethical compass than most of them do. And 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:24.760 none of them are positive. Andrewtates admired because even though 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:31.480 that in Cells are not like him, he speaks to them. 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.880 Brian's audio got garbled here, but this is verbatim what 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.040 he said. He basically is a light at the end 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.920 of the tunnel of like, well, I was a nerd 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:44.200 in the geek too, but I became a kickboxing champion 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.960 and now I'm rich, and now women mean nothing to me. 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:53.720 Brian continues, So, even though he's nothing like us, he 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.480 knows how to appeal to us, and he's not real. 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.680 People make him look at sound like he's a genius 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.880 and this and that, but largely he made his money unethically. 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.480 He is totally toxic. There is no positive role models 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.520 for in cells. They all kind of cling to this 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:17.000 alpha male archetype that isn't even real. And if you 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.960 look at all that alpha melbs on the internet, you're 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:21.120 probably thinking. 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.640 How are these guys getting paid? Who is funding their lifestyle? 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.960 Who believes any of the bullshit that they're saying, well, 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.320 in Cells believe them, and in Cells funded, and because 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.960 we're so miserable, we'll pay four thousand and five thousand, 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.480 ten thousand for their program. 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.760 In hopes that we can have a small portion of 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:41.880 the success that they have. 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:48.200 Brian is talking about the businesses Body mentioned earlier. According 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:52.120 to a twenty twenty three BBC article, the Tape Brothers 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.840 appeared to be bringing in around five million dollars a 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:57.800 month in membership fees. 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:03.680 Here's Connor, the relationship with Tate is kind of fascinating 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.160 because on one hand, it sort of speaks to that 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.800 young male mindset, which is like, I want to be 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:10.720 able to do what I want to do. In so 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.240 many ways, he doesn't line up with the culture of 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.360 Insel community because you know, he gets women, he has women, 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.600 he has money, and he has opportunity. But like you said, 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:22.840 he speaks to them. It is just sort of he 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.360 speaks to them as I can do whatever I want. 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:25.720 Right. 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:30.440 He's made outrageous claims and some people believe it, and 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.560 smarter people like myself know it's not true. Like he's 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.840 a billionaire or he's going to be a billionaire. Is 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:41.600 Hustler's University. I know about him only because in the 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:45.960 in cell space, he's unavoidable, you know what I mean, 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:51.040 Like we fund his lifestyle basically, not we fund it, 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.400 but like, let's be honest, half of his money comes 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:58.880 probably from his sex cam business. I think he does 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.600 have a broader appeal to young men. People look at 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.679 him and they see that basically he can do whatever 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:05.560 he wants. 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:11.200 But mostly we kind of chase that dream. We see 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:15.480 him on gods and revolve as women. Guys like him, 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.680 guys like Dan Bolzarian, they're popular with us. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.280 But the point is that there is no positive role 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.840 model for an in cell. Either it's an alpha male 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:30.600 guy who's who's conning us for money and views to 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:35.600 promote their message, or it's guys like Elliott Rogers who 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.879 got so frustrated and just annihilated a bunch of people. 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:40.360 You know. 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:44.479 That's kind of the two role models for in cells, 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:45.960 which is which is terrible. 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.359 Do you see in your communities any sort of hope 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.520 in the sense that, like, are there older people your age, 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:57.160 your generation that are offering at least some positive guidance 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.520 or ways to approach these kids lives, especially for the 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:03.240 younger ones. Or does that not exist at all? 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:07.080 Absolutely not, it doesn't exist. Being an in cell is 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.880 a dead zone of negativity. There are in cells my age, 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.320 and they're stupid too. I don't know if you know 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.160 this one, but being an in cell at my age 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:21.000 is a bit different because, like Andrew Tate appeals to 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:25.000 younger people, but a guy my age, a boot camp 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:29.480 might appeal to them, where you pay twenty thousand dollars 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:33.800 to go off to Guatemala or whatever and go through 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:38.320 grueling military training and you pay this twenty thousand dollars 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:43.000 basically to get tortured for a week and dehumanized by 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.840 life coaches in the hopes that after only a week 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:48.680 it's going to change your life and you're going to 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.840 be a better man and then you can get women 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:56.280 and stuff like that. There's no one positive in the 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.800 in cell community, and it's unfortunate because all we have 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:05.200 does each other. Really, because most men, and I say most, 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.480 I mean ninety percent of men don't know what it's 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:09.159 like to be me. 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.639 We ask criminologist and in cell expert doctor Sarah Daily 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.520 why she thinks Andrew Tate, the self deemed king of 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.200 toxic masculinity, is so successful. 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.159 I think that he can certainly be a gateway, but 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:32.720 once you jump into the manisphere, you can find endless 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.480 issues or paths to take through it, and it's like 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.639 a choose your own adventure, like where the algorithm gets you. 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:42.240 But I think this approach and his business strategy is 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.280 one that we're going to see through a number of 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:50.000 other ideologies, and that makes me very nervous. Unfortunately, the 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:54.159 most successful movements that aforce generally had a leader or 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.080 a symbolic figurehead to lead them, and with Andrew Taate, 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:02.400 you have that in a very symbolic figure of hyper masculinity. 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:06.240 That he is very athletic, he's toned, he leads a 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:11.280 luxurious lifestyle. But interestingly, this kind of is dissonant against 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.840 in cells because he's more of a chad that's having 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.760 sex with women. So they're kind of railing against him 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:20.320 because they can't have what he has and they can't 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:21.680 be who he is. 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:28.320 What doctor Daly's describing is the contradiction at the heart 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.840 of Andrew Tate's appeal. He's everything the typical in cell 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:37.240 claims to resent, successful, muscular, confident, yet he becomes a 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.160 kind of mascot for the same movement that rejects him. 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:44.000 The image he projects isn't about connection or empathy. It's 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:48.119 about dominance and control, and for some men already feeling 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.960 unseen or powerless, that image can become magnetic. 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.960 He has a very clear audience and a very clear 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:02.440 goal of sharing this ideology or his worldview. Given everything 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:04.879 that he has said about himself, his target audience is 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.280 not women, right, So there he goes with He's got 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.840 fifty percent of the world that's a target audience and 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:14.240 trying to show them the benefits of his lifestyle, right 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.959 and of this mentality. And I think, regardless of how 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.920 much I disagree with or dislike his message, he has 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:25.720 had a very clear, focused campaign and done a lot 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.679 of things to make himself pervasive for better or for worse, 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:34.760 around the world and influential. And so yeah, he's a kickboxer. 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.720 He has all this sex with women. Whether or not 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:40.840 it's consensual is still being debated. He believes men to 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.960 have a whole host of advantages and he has made 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:48.080 for many people a compelling case is to why this 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:52.400 notion of the alpha male and how toxic masculinity can 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:54.320 benefit men and men. 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:59.560 Only takes message lands at a time when many people, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:04.919 especially young men, already feel left behind. Online comparison and 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.320 shifting gender roles have blurred what success or stability even 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:13.200 looks like. For some, confusion turns into resentment, and voices 0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:16.600 like Tates offer an easy outlet for that anger. It's 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:20.240 not just about one influencer, It's about the emotional vacuum 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:21.560 his message fills. 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:29.879 We are living in dark times where everybody is consistently overwhelmed, overstimulated, overworked. 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:34.840 Everybody is exhausted. I think most people in the country 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:39.000 right now are just working to survive. But I think 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.520 for men specifically, who were once told that the world 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:45.240 was their oyster, for those who believed that they were 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:49.000 entitled to a very comfortable life, who if they did 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:50.840 everything the right way, they would get married, their wife 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:53.639 would go dinner for them, into their laundry. They feel 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:57.440 like they're losing things that they expected, so having this 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:04.080 societal scapegoat is easier for them than admitting their shortcomings. 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:07.199 It's easier to get mad at women for not cooking 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:09.560 them dinner anymore or not dating them anymore than it 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:13.000 is to say maybe my career in the coal mines 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:15.280 didn't pan out the way that I wanted it to, 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:17.760 and that's I should learn a new trade. So I 0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:21.879 think it's much easier for men to be angry because 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:24.600 Andrew take told them to be. It's easier for men 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:28.520 to send their blame outward and blame society and women 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:31.439 and feminism than it is to better themselves and do 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:31.960 that work. 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:40.240 Let's stop here for another break. We'll be back in 0:23:40.280 --> 0:24:02.919 a moment. We wanted to know whether this kind of 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:06.280 gender backlash, the kind that feels so loud right now, 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:11.440 has happened before. Doctor Michael Kimmel, Professor emeritith of Sociology 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:15.159 and Gender Studies at Stonybrook University and author of books 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:20.080 including Manhood in America, Guyland, and Angry White Men, says 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:24.200 it has. In fact, he points to a long history 0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:28.640 of what he calls profits of masculinity, figures like Andrew Tate, 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:30.320 who've appeared again and again. 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:37.400 At the turn of the last century, men were equally 0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:41.640 confused about dramatic social and economic changes. No longer did 0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:44.000 you go into your little workshop and work with your hands. 0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:47.560 You went to factories, you went to offices. White collar 0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:50.680 work became one of the dominant modes of employment. And 0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:53.040 we were concerned at the turn of the century that 0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:57.000 young boys were turning into you know, molly coddles, as 0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:00.040 the word was, And so there was a boy a 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:02.719 boy's liberation movement at the turn of the last century. 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:06.960 The Boy Scouts, the YMCA all designed gymss proliferated in 0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:10.440 cities to help men work out, get stronger, get more fit. 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:13.800