1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power Colli 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: in Silicon Vallet and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: Emily ja I remember only checking San Francisco, and this 4 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up. In the next hour, mid 5 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: terms arrive as public trust in the election process is 6 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: being upended by misinformation and hate. We're talking about how 7 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: the outcome of today's vote will impact data privacy, big 8 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: tech regulation, and social media. Plus, California is voting on 9 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: Proposition thirty, which would tax the wealthy and fund the 10 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: adoption of electric cars. Lift President will explain why his 11 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: company is back in the effort despite Governor Gavin Newsom's 12 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: campaign against it, while Uber is staying quiet and f 13 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: T excess Sam mag Mun Freed has been snatching up 14 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: crypto companies on the brink. Now he's getting bailed out 15 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: by Finances c Z. We'll explain how a feud between 16 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: the two founders ended in an unexpected acquisition. All that 17 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: in a moment, but first I want to dig into 18 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: those Disney results now and bloom bringing Bloomberg Intelligence media 19 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: analyst Keith rang rang and Athan with all the details. 20 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: Keether walk us through the main takeaways here. Yeah, thanks 21 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: so much, Emily. So I think the main takeaways here was, 22 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: you know, streaming. Everybody was a little bit worried whether 23 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: they were going to be able to sustain streaming subscriber momentum, 24 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: and yes they did. They came out swinging, you know, 25 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: thirty percent above consensus, more than twelve million subscriber ads 26 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: on Disney Plus. But I think where they really kind 27 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: of fell short was on the bottom line. So we 28 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: saw that streaming losses kind of came in um much 29 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: higher than expected. So it's more than four billion dollars 30 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: that they've lost in the director consumer segment for fiscal two. 31 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: They did, however, say that those losses are going to 32 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: improve going forward. This was peak losses according to them, 33 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: and we should we should expect them to break even 34 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: if in physical four. But for me, really the big 35 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: miss was in the park segment. Uh, you know, where 36 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: we were expecting them to come in with about one 37 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: point nine billion dollars in operating income. They came in 38 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: at about one point five. UM. Now, there's been a 39 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: lot of different things. They remember Shanghai Disneyland is closed. Um, 40 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: you know, we had a hurricane Ian in Florida, so 41 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: There've been a couple of different things. So I think 42 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: the question now is is it a demand problem or 43 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: is it a cost problem? Can you compare how Disney 44 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: Plus is doing. These are the Netflix, which of course, 45 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, suffered first subscriber loss in a decade earlier 46 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: this year, but then started regaining subscribers in the latest quarter. Yes, 47 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: so it's really been a tale of you know, kind 48 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: of to two different worlds really here in terms of 49 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: streaming subscribe mind. But remember these are two services that 50 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: are very different stages in their life cycles. So so 51 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: Netflix has almost a ten to twelve year head start 52 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: on Disney So they're they're already kind of expanded into 53 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: all those international markets, and they were kind of hitting 54 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: their wall a little bit earlier this year with Disney Plus. 55 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: They're still kind of really expanding into new markets. We 56 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: saw them go into about hundred million homes over this 57 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: summer in two and then right now they're really kind 58 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: of hitting that steady cadence of content. So we've seen 59 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: some really big hit series come out, whether it was 60 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: an End or whether it's a she Hulk, and they're 61 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: going to see much more kind of coming onto the platform, 62 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: you know, once they release Black Panther of course, as 63 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: well as Avatar. Those are going to come on the 64 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: Disney Plus platform as well. So all of that kind 65 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: of tells us that there's a lot of momentum for 66 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: this company going forward. The question really has been that 67 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: profitability question, and it's not just for Disney's, for all 68 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: the players in the in the streaming space. Neflix Hastings 69 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: has said they're looking into sports rights. How big a 70 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: threat would that be to ESPN? Yes, So remember ESPN 71 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: spends about nine to ten billion dollars every year on 72 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: sports rights. I'm not so sure Netflix is going to 73 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: be able to make that big off a pet um, 74 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: you know. I think they're looking really more at, you know, 75 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: maybe second tier sports. They've they've looked at a few 76 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: different things. But I think one thing that they are 77 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: worried about though is, you know, uh, sports rights do 78 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: kind of have this huge inflationy competent attached to them. 79 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: You know, they go up sixty every time new rights 80 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: fees have to be renegotiated. But the one good thing 81 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: that that you know, Netflix does have working in its 82 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 1: favor is they do have now this ad supported tier 83 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 1: and that is just perfect for sports because you have 84 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: a captive of audience, advertisers will be really interested. So 85 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: that if they are going after sports in a big way, 86 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: I think they can still make it work. All right, 87 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence analyst Keith Rock and Athan, We're gonna stay 88 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: tuned the headlines from the Disney call, but appreciate your 89 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: insights across all of it. Meantime, Lift reported weaker than 90 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: expected growth in writer leaving some investors concerned it's losing 91 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: ground to Uber. This after Lift said it would cut 92 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: of its workforce nearly seven hundred people in its second 93 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: round of layoffs this year. For more on this, I'm 94 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: joined by Lift co founder and president John Zimmer. So, look, John, 95 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: share sinking revenue, falling short of expectations, fewer riders than expected. 96 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 1: What's your response to the investor response? Here? Look, I 97 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,799 Speaker 1: mean we take it seriously. We can say that revenue 98 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: in Q three was at an all time high for 99 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: the company. We guided into Q four of adjusted IBATA 100 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: at an all time high and again record revenue. Uh 101 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: you know, on on specifically on riders um the same 102 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: increase in active writers. Uh that uh we saw a 103 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: quarter of our quarter was approximately what we saw seasonality 104 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: wise in UH, so no big, big change there UM. 105 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: And then in October we can say that we saw 106 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: six percent month over month ride growth, which is actually 107 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: faster when compared to the same period in well. And 108 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: in addition to record revenue, you saw record revenue per rider. 109 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: But there are real concerns that you're seating ground to Uber, 110 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: are you if you look back on the quarter third 111 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: party data, so it's about one percent movement. Uh. And 112 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: we've actually seen share take up post quarter as we've 113 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: rolled out new products for our drivers, including up front pay. 114 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: It's been a narrative. You know, We've been talking about 115 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: this for a decade. We've been in the business of 116 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: Lift for a decade. UH. You know, people constantly asking 117 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: this question of what we're doing Lift versus Uber. UH. 118 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: And we've consistently over that decade UH take in market 119 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: share UH and and we feel we feel comfortable where 120 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: we are and with the products that we added to 121 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 1: the market in the last few months, where we'll be 122 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: in the coming quarters. We've talked about this many times 123 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: over the last decade, so I appreciate you bear in 124 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: with me. John. How is drivers supply relative to levels? Uber? Said? 125 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: They're back. Yeah, so I can get more specific than 126 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: than they're back and say that quarter over quarter, active 127 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: drivers increased the most that it has in about a year. 128 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: So we are seeing a return on the driver's side again. 129 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: With the new products, we're seeing increased driver hours. I 130 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: think there's still a bit more opportunity to go to 131 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: get back to kind of pre COVID UH service levels. 132 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: But we're the closest to those that we've ever been. 133 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: So got to ask about Prop thirty. I went and 134 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: voted on it today. Lift is a huge backer of it, 135 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: this proposal to raise taxes on the wealthy to pay 136 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: for electric car rebates and charging stations. That said, after 137 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: you back this, Governor Gavin Newsom came out with a 138 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: flurry of ads saying to vote no. What happened there? 139 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: Why is list so for this, Why is the governor 140 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: so against it? And do you have any regrets? Uh? No, 141 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: regrets won't speak to the governor's perspective, but I can 142 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: say that, you know, California has the highest some of 143 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: the highs have not the highest UH or lowest air 144 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: quality in the country. UH. And as you look at vehicles, 145 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: electric vehicles historically policies have centered on UH, people who 146 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: can afford an electric vehicle getting an incentive to buy 147 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: an expensive electric vehicle. What Prop thirty does, UH is 148 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: it really addresses lower income populations and make sure that 149 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: they can get an electric vehicle. UM, and we think 150 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: that's really important. It also puts money towards fighting wildfires. Still, 151 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: the governor called it a trojan horse that puts corporate 152 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: welfare above the fiscal welfare of the entire state. And 153 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: Uber hasn't taken a position one way or another. I 154 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: ask actually asked our Causra Shah he why a few 155 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: days ago. Take a listen to what he had to say. 156 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: We feel like we're making the right investments. We are, 157 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: for example, lowering our own booking fee and making sure 158 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: that drivers can make more on a trip basis when 159 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: they move over to E vs UH, and in partnership 160 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: with both public and private we think California is headed 161 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: in the right direction, which is why you know we've 162 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: stayed out of Prop thirty one way or the other. 163 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: M John, on the face, it seems like this proposition 164 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: would benefit Uber as well. Why why do you think 165 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: they didn't take a stand? UM, I can't comment on 166 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: why they didn't take a stand or haven't taken a 167 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: stand on other important issues of our time. But I 168 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 1: can tell you why we did again. We think it's 169 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: the right thing for the entire state in terms of 170 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: the environment, UH, in terms of the air quality, and 171 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: in terms of allowing any driver, not not just a 172 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: riot cheer driver, but any driver in the entire state 173 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: to get access to a more affordable electric vehicle. So look, 174 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: another question that I know I've asked you a few 175 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: time over the years, but folks are asking it again. 176 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: Given the recent quarter, Uber has seen success, you know, 177 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: moving into food delivery, cross selling it to writers. Are 178 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: you thinking about that at all? Would you consider, for example, 179 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: strengthening the partnership with grub hub to potentially drive some 180 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: additional revenue. We've done some B two B delivery, so 181 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: not we have no plans, no interest in doing kind 182 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: of a consumer delivery that that competes with their eats 183 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: business or or door dash, But we do want to 184 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: find opportunities for drivers that that like driving on both 185 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: UH delivery as well as rideshare. That said, rideshare drivers 186 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: have historically always earned more than than delivery drivers on 187 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: average over the last several years. Uh And so we 188 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: think our focus particularly if we do head into a 189 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: recession where people typically spend less money on takeout or delivery. 190 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: Uh and and where transportation is more resilient. You know, 191 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: I think we're still coming off the tails of a 192 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: pandemic where where that was very popular and it was 193 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: helpful to have both those. I think in a recession 194 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: or environment, we're comfortable and confident in focusing on consumer transportation. Meantime, 195 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: the markets haven't been kind to most companies, especially tech companies. 196 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: Lift now has a you know, about a four billion 197 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: dollar market cap. Would you consider a sale or a 198 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: merger at this point? So we're we're focused on being 199 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: an independent, profitable business. Uh And we're gonna we're gonna 200 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: focus on on that. Uh and and stay the course. 201 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: All right, John, thank you so much for joining us. 202 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: And if you were listening to that conversation you're intrigued. 203 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: Make sure you vote everywhere and definitely in California. Lift 204 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: co founder and president John Zimmer, thank you. Thank you. Okay, 205 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: coming up, how disinformation is creating a new era of 206 00:11:51,760 --> 00:12:08,079 Speaker 1: US political unrest. That's next, This is Bloomberg. Americans remain 207 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: divided over the government's ability to conduct a free and 208 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: fair election. A CNN poll found forty percent of voters 209 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: think it is somewhat likely that elected officials will one 210 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: day successfully overturn the results of a US election because 211 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: their party didn't win. That issue fueled by misinformation. So 212 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: how can the country progress if both sides can't even 213 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: agree on the facts. Jory Craig is the head of 214 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: Elections and Digital at I s D Global Group focused 215 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: on finding solutions to extremism, hate, and disinformation, all major 216 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: major problems. Jory, how prevalent is misinformation in the election 217 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: that's happening right now? So misinformation which is misleading or 218 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: confusing information shared by accident, is somewhat prevalent. But what 219 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: we've seen in the months leading up to the election, 220 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: really nonstuff, is disinformation, so balter, misleading information intentionally put 221 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: into voters seeds to confuse them, to so doubt in advance. 222 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 1: So when election day come, they already have these preceded 223 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: false narratives in their heads and they're expecting activity to 224 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: have and that will confirm those narratives for them. So 225 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: how much of an impact do you think this miss 226 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: and disinformation will actually have on the votes, uh, that 227 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: that people decide today. So we're about to find out 228 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: in the next few hours. I mean, we have already 229 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: seen election officials, people running for office repeat disinformation claims. 230 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: We've been seeing that in the week's leading up. We've 231 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: been seating that already today. So the question will be, 232 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: you know, our voters going to buy this cyclical scam 233 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: that these election deniers are offering when they're repeating these 234 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: lives that have really been the same lice. Um, we 235 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: hope you know that voters are able to cast their 236 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: ballot and there are no challenges. We've seen things be 237 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: safe at the polls so far. So hopefully these election 238 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: deniers and these people seating these narratives won't have their way. 239 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: But we'll see. Uh. Time will tell. So there are 240 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: so many conspiracy theories out there that we don't want 241 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: to amplify here. But what can we regular people do 242 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 1: to mitigate miss or disinformation? Sure, so one thing that 243 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: everybody can do is slow down. We all passively scroll 244 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: through our feeds, uh, and it can be easy to 245 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: share something quickly without checking the source. We can all 246 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: slow down. Also, people think sometimes that if they want 247 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: to rebute something or say hey this is wilder, Hey 248 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: this isn't true, that they should re share it, but 249 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: actually they shouldn't. They shouldn't regive, you know, reshare or 250 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: give more amplification to the false post. And journalists really 251 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: have this bad habit to there trying to be you know, 252 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: share breaking news. Uh, they can slow down and wait 253 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: till all the facts are collected or just post the 254 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: true information instead of resharing what's false. Also, talk to 255 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: your neighbors, talk to people who don use social media 256 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: regularly and help them understand that there are people out 257 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: there trying to push false narratives intentionally on social media 258 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: because it's a place that you go to see trusted sources, 259 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: your friends, your family, etcetera. You know, one of my 260 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: next questions was how can the mainstream media make this 261 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: better or worse? Yes, well, I think that the mainstream 262 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: media has a tough job. They're trying to provide breaking news, 263 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: relevant information, but unfortunately, with how fast things move on 264 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: social media, it means that often they're taking things out 265 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: of context. So we've already seen we've already seen today, 266 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: you know, journalists re sharing things that if they hadn't 267 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: shared it those narratives would have stayed in fringe spaces, 268 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: they wouldn't have been exposed to the mainstream public. So 269 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: journalists have a duty to be a little bit more responsible. 270 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: And remember that Twitter is not the majority of where 271 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: is not a place where the majority of Americans are 272 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: spending their time. Uh, And so you know, the reactions 273 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: they get on Twitter are keeping up with the Twitter stream. 274 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: It's not exactly uh, you know, the most responsible way 275 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: to be getting information out to everybody who votes. Well, 276 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: speaking of that, I'm curious what you make of Elon 277 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: Musk's approach at Twitter thus far. The right of free 278 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: speech is one thing. The right to algorithmic amplification a 279 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: free speech is another thing. Do you like what you're 280 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: saying or do you worry about the potential dangers? I 281 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: worry about the potential dangers. And there's just so many, 282 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: I mean, cutting resources like he did so close to 283 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: the election. You know, most people are going to be 284 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: thinking about content moderation because he keeps forcing this false 285 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: conversation about about free speech. But that's not really even 286 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: at the top of our list or even at the 287 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: bottom of our list of what we worry about. We 288 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: worry about how when trust and safety safety teams are cut, 289 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: we don't have the staff on hand. The platforms don't 290 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: have the staff on hand to respond to the threats 291 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: that we're seeing, to respond to law enforcement subpoenas, to 292 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: try to get the information of where someone's posting from 293 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: if they're posting an active thread. Uh. The back and 294 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: forth on free speech is the distraction from what we 295 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: know these platforms are focused on, which is growth. Their 296 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: product features are taking pieces of content and putting it 297 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: into more feeds than would otherwise see it. So people 298 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: who think that it's a question of free speech or 299 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: censorship don't realize that their feets are already curated, those 300 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: accurations already happening. They don't have a choice in what 301 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: they're putting in, in what they see in their feeds. 302 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: It's just not something they have already. So it's a distraction, 303 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: and we're all worried about what Elon Musk is gonna do. 304 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: No one really has confidence in his ability to understand 305 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: how to make Twitter a safe place or even a 306 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: profitable place for those who are only concerned with the 307 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: money it's gonna make. So I'd say all around, it's 308 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: been bad news so far. So look, these are problems 309 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: that are going to persist even when the election is over. 310 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: You know what happens over the next couple of weeks, 311 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: how do you expect misinformation disinformation to weigh on our 312 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: digestion of these results. It's going to be taxing, i'd say. 313 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: I'd say that regardless of the results. We know that 314 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: the bad actors who are pushing to UM deny the 315 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: election results are likely to deny results in this election, 316 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: and they have a long game their eyes are on, 317 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: and so you can expect that whatever happens over the 318 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: next two weeks will be setting up for what they 319 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: want to carry into the elections, whether that's calling certain 320 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: locations or certain states the most prevalent locations for allegend 321 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: election fraud, whether that's denying election results, whether that's pursuing 322 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: litigation UM. All of this is leading up to four 323 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 1: where they hope to do their ultimate power grab and 324 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: restore what they what they had previously. So we'll see 325 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: their playbook for show in the next coming weeks, and 326 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: hopefully Americans will reject this narrative and not give it 327 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: more oxygen and we can all move on with the 328 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: actual results. Of the election based on what Americans choose 329 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: to say in this election. All right, Jerry crag Had 330 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: of Elections and Digital at I S T Global, thank 331 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: you so much for weighing in on all of these 332 00:18:49,840 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: important issues today. Some other stories on our radar. Job 333 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: cuts in the tech industry now nearing levels last seen 334 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: in the early stages of the pandemic. In the last 335 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: few weeks, a number of tech companies have said put 336 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: hiring on hold or cut jobs outright. Think Twitter, Apple, Amazon, 337 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: Alphabet Now Salesforce just today cut hundreds of workers from 338 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 1: its sales team, and the Wall Street Journal says Facebook 339 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: parent Meta is set to cut thousands of employees this week. 340 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: Crypto Exchange Finance is buying rival f t X, led 341 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: by Sam Bankman Free. This means billionaire Chung Pung c 342 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: Z Saw, who owns Finances, crypto's richest man. It's now 343 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: consolidating power in the crypto world after a bitter few 344 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: between these two men, with cz actively undermining confidence in 345 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: ft X is financing helping spark an exodus of users 346 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: from the exchange. We're going to dive deeper into all 347 00:19:52,520 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: of this in our Crypto Report later this hour. Let's 348 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: get back now to the mid terms and talk about 349 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: the impact the outcome of this election could have on 350 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: the fate of big tech policy. I want to bring 351 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: in Shoshanna Zooba for more on this. She is the 352 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: author of the Age of Surveillance Capitalism and a professor 353 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: emeritus at Harvard's Business School, and has so many insightful 354 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: things to say on this topic. So, look, whether it's 355 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: Republicans or Democrats in control after this election, how do 356 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: you think the votes cast today will impact the future 357 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: of the tech industry. Well, the answer to that question 358 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: and really, you know what I'm gonna say, Let's zoom 359 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: out a little bit and understand where we are. These 360 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 1: midterm elections are are pretty traumatic, but they are actually 361 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: one milestone in a two decade long social experiment in 362 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: which we are the guinea pigs. And that social experiment 363 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: began in the late nineteen nineties when our political leaders 364 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: are democratically elected leaders abdicated the new digital information and 365 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: communication spaces of the Internet to private companies. They told 366 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: the companies you lead will get out of the way, 367 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: there will be no law to constrain you. And two 368 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: decades later, we are paying the price of this social experiment. 369 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: You know, perhaps among the prices that we have paid 370 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: is the fact that Bloomberg did very extensive analysis that 371 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: found that candidates who propagated the big lie that the 372 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: election was stolen from former President Trump actually got more 373 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: engagement on social media, and that social media companies also 374 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: profited from that engagement. What can be done about that? 375 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: All right, so, but we're we're in a crazy situation. 376 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,959 Speaker 1: So we let the companies take over these spaces. And 377 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: by the way, as everyone knows, this is the digital age. 378 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: We live in an information society. Never has information been 379 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: more essential to every single thing we do. And if 380 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: we ourselves are not represented as information, we no longer 381 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: even exist on society's atlas. It is absolutely crucial to 382 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: our lives as individuals and to our democratic society. But 383 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: what we have instead is avoid democracy advocated, and that 384 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: left avoid where democracy should have been figuring out, hey, 385 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: how do we run this Internet and how do we 386 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: take advantage of the vast new digital capabilities to advance 387 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: our values and prints sables to advance a democratic form 388 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: of government. We never had that conversation. We left a void, 389 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: and it was surveillance capitalism that filled the void. And 390 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,360 Speaker 1: what that means, Emily is this is not a hard 391 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: luck story about technology. We're not up against technology. This 392 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: is a bad story about economics because when they figured 393 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: out that they could invade our spaces, our personal spaces, 394 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: extract us as data, use that data to predict our behavior, 395 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: and really figure out that that was going to be 396 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: the new commodity business. Human data sold in process like 397 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: a commodity, just as if we were selling oil barrels 398 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: or tons of wheat, same deal. So they built systems 399 00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: for volume and speed, that's all that matter. Or get 400 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: the bulk of those data flowing through the AI, flowing 401 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: through the machines as much and as quickly as possible. 402 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: And these are systems that simply cannot discern fact from lies. 403 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: Truth has no in these systems, right, we can't even 404 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: agree on what the truth is. What are you seeing 405 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: in Elon Musk's approach to Twitter so far? What are 406 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: your biggest concerns there? Well, my biggest concern is that 407 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: we're talking about Elon Musk all the time, So you know, 408 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: we've been trying to solve the problems that are that 409 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: have been caused by this abdication, This sort of original, 410 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: huge mistake that we made. And some of those problems 411 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: are obvious to most people now, the complete loss of privacy. 412 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: But another set of problems is this vast um complex 413 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: of disinformation which has saturated our information spaces and taken 414 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: over our politics and our lives. So when you've got 415 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: a problem, you try to fix it. We've been trying 416 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: to fix this problem by looking at the owners of 417 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: these spaces, the Zuckerberg's and now Mr Musk, and literally 418 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: on our knees pleaing with these individual men who were 419 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: never elected. We never chose them to lead or to 420 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: have such power over society, and yet we are reduced 421 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: to begging and pleading. And that's why today every headline 422 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: begins with what is Ellen going to do? Because in 423 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,719 Speaker 1: this in this situation right now, they have the power 424 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: and we are helpless. Why are we helpless? Because our 425 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: lawmakers have left us naked. We have not the rights, 426 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: the laws, and the institutions that we need to keep 427 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: us safe in this digital century, to keep us safe 428 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: from the ruthless, profit driven machine that these companies represent, 429 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: surveillance capitalism, and even to keep us safe from government surveillance. 430 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: Now and I wonder, given the tumult we're seeing at Twitter, 431 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: the layoffs happening at Meta, and the pivot to the metaphirst, 432 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: the national security concerns around TikTok, is it possible that 433 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 1: the social media landscape could look very different a year 434 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 1: from now or even a few years from now. Well, 435 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: the social media landscape not only can, but must look 436 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: very different. I mean, right now, we're all operating in 437 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: the definition of crazy. We know that begging these men 438 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: to be nice to society isn't working because their systems 439 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 1: cannot comply, and because why would they voluntarily give up 440 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: profit when there are no laws to make them do so. 441 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: So the first thing we have to do, Emily is 442 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: pivot and stop being crazy. We need to be addressing 443 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 1: our lawmakers. We need laws, we need legislation, we need 444 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: rights to protect us. Everything has to shift to our lawmakers. 445 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 1: It is they who gave these spaces away. They created 446 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: this problem, and together citizens and lawmakers, that's how we're 447 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: going to solve it. So the fact that we're um, 448 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: we're wondering, you know, what is the social media landscape 449 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: going to be in a year. It is we who 450 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: must decide democracy that must decide, because we've got to 451 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: go back to the beginning and understand that this economic 452 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: paradigm that is essentially taken over the digital age is injurious, 453 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: is destructive to democracy, and it's destructive to individuals our society. 454 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: Is what about uh starts out, What about those who 455 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: say this is free speech and letting free speech rain. Yes, yes, 456 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: I'm yearning for free speech, Emily, because what we have 457 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: now is, you know, we think we're talking to each other, 458 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: but what's actually happening is we're doing that communicating in 459 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: a private space that is privately owned by a company 460 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: that is driven by a ruthless profit motive to extract 461 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: more and more and more from us. And what they 462 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: have learned and the research you alluded to a moment ago, Emily, 463 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: is that the crazier the content, the more fringe, the 464 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,959 Speaker 1: more inflammatory, the more hate written, the more we start 465 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: up and look just like an accident when you're running 466 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: down the highway, we stop and look where mesmerized, We 467 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: engage more, even it's even if it's to say I'm angry, 468 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: And this is how they extract more data from us 469 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: that's critical for their revenue line and on it goes, 470 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: so we are not talking to one another in a 471 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: free and open social situation of normal social dynamics, the 472 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: kind of society that the framers of the Bill of 473 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: Rights imagined when they gave us the right to free speech. 474 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: They imagined a free and open space where the best 475 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: ideas rise to the top. Because that's how communities proceed, 476 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: that's how communities evolve. There's always gonna be crazy stuff. 477 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: Crazy stuff is supposed to get born at the margin 478 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: and stay at the margin. That's always gonna happen. There's 479 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: free speech, but we live in a world where the 480 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: crazy stuff is artificially selected, algorithmically amplified to drive profit, 481 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: leaving us saturated in this world of craziness so much 482 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: so that and I really want everybody to know this, 483 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: we've had more disinformation with every election. We had a 484 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: massive onslaught of disinformation more than ten times that in 485 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: UH when we got to and in even before we 486 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: got to the election. Our new head of the f 487 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: d A, doctor Robert Califf Uh, through his the analysis 488 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: of UH done at the f T day, f d A, 489 00:30:53,560 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: was able to declare the disinformation in the year had 490 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: become the primary cause of death in America. So we're 491 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: talking about politics, we're talking about life and death, and 492 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about the possibility of a democratic future. Shoshana 493 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: Zubov so much to talk about and never enough time, obviously. 494 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: If you want to hear more of what Shoshanna has 495 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: to say, check out her book, author of the Age 496 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: of Surveillance Capitalism. Thank you so much for joining us. 497 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: Coming up, we've got a great big guest. Coin Base 498 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: CEO Brian Armstrong is on the phone. He's with us. Next, 499 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg, big crypto drama over the last few days, 500 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: ending with a shock after Finance agreed to acquire its 501 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: most formidable rival, f t X dot com. Coin Base 502 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: CEO Brian Armstrong has a few thoughts about that and more, 503 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: and joins us now to give us his stake on 504 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: the news. So let's zoom out a bit. First, Brian, 505 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: Crazy day in the crypto markets. What happened today from 506 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: your purview? Yeah, well, you know, it's hard to judge 507 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: too much until all the facts are in, but it 508 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: appears that ft X got into a bit of a 509 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: liquidity crunch and there was some risky behavior that they 510 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: were engaging in, and you know, it appears that Finance 511 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: is wanting to come in here and acquire ft X, 512 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: But we'll see if that deal goes through. And I 513 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: think the broader story that as I think about it 514 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: just zooming out, is that over the last few years, UM, 515 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: you know, companies like coin Base that are pursuing a 516 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: trusted and regulated approach, we've been trying to see regulatory clarity, 517 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: and sometimes in the absence of that, UM, we've seen 518 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: customers basically going off shore to these offshore, unregulated exchanges, 519 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: and occasionally we're gonna see blow ups like this, I 520 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: think unless that is resolved somehow. So this is a 521 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: validation of our strategy that we've been taking for the 522 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: long term. And UM, yeah, I think that's what we've 523 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: been seeing. In these recent markets. There are big concerns 524 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: about crypto liquidity and how fickle uh it is or isn't. 525 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: How do you prevent liquidity crunches from happening? Yeah, well, 526 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: in cuimmus this case, I mean, this kind of liquidity 527 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: crunch is not possible to happen because, um, we're not 528 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,239 Speaker 1: you know, investing customer funds. Um, we're not uh, you know, 529 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: doing market making or engaged in any kind of complex 530 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: arrangement with other you know, parties that we own. It's 531 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: very simple. You know, we're regulated as a custodian and 532 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: a brokerasion in exchange. We hold all of the customer 533 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: assets one to one back. So if customers want to 534 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: come and withdraw those funds, even a hundred percent of them, 535 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: you know, that's fine. They can withdraw all of it 536 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: at once. And as a public company, our financial statements 537 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: are audited and anybody can go and see them. Um. 538 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: So these are the kinds of things that I think 539 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: helped make us the trusted platform. And unfortunately, again in 540 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: these kind of offshore, unregulated exchanges, it's a little unclear 541 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: exactly how their financial statements are orchestrated and what their 542 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: relationships are with these other third parties. You know, what's 543 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: happening with customer funds is it being loaned out without 544 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: their permission? Um. And so hopefully this is a good 545 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: reminder to everybody that you know, having trusted companies in 546 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,919 Speaker 1: the space is what's going to help this space grow 547 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: over the long term. So look, analysts are looking at 548 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: this as you know, and if the deal goes through, 549 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: of course, and it hasn't yet. But as a seismic 550 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 1: shift in the competitive landscape, how are you thinking about that? 551 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: Does doesn't mean you'll need to evolve your strategy at all, No, 552 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: I mean I don't think our strategy changes here. So 553 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: I mean, first off, we try not to look at 554 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: too much of what competitors are doing. We try to 555 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,240 Speaker 1: just look at what our customers want and and focus 556 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: on that. I also think that, by the way, you know, 557 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: most of the interactions we have with our competitors in 558 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: space are their operative, their friendly. We're trying to grow 559 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: the whole space x and it's not so much a 560 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,399 Speaker 1: competitive thing most of the time. But that being said, 561 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: I do think, you know, um Finance and coin bass 562 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: are taking pretty different approaches and UM you know, we're 563 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: we're building in a very trusted, compliant way. We're trying 564 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: to go get licenses in the countries where we operate. 565 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,720 Speaker 1: UM you know, we're also not just a trading platform. 566 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: We don't think trading the be all end all of 567 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: cryptol that we have really good products in that space. 568 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: We you know, the reason I got into this and 569 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: I got excited about it is I want there to 570 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: be a more fair and free and global financial system 571 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,919 Speaker 1: where there's more economic freedom, and so we're enabling people 572 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: through our products to do all kinds of things with crypto, 573 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: including you know, earning a living and paying for things 574 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: in commerce and remittance and pure to pure payments and 575 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: even accessing web three in the world of DAPs out there. So, um, 576 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: we're going to continue to build towards that our strategy 577 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: doesn't change. But I do think this could have an 578 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: impact in terms of, um, the regulatory landscape and you 579 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,240 Speaker 1: know how policymakers are going to engage with different parties 580 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: going forward. Would coin buys consider buying f t x 581 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: U S So you know, I had a number of 582 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: conversations with people over the last m twenty four hours 583 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: and um, there's reasons why that would not make sense, 584 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: and I'm not quite at liberty to share the details 585 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: right now. I think I'm gonna let other people share 586 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: that if and when they're ready, or it'll probably all 587 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 1: come out eventually. And I think, you know, finance, I'm 588 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: sure is looking at the details of this transaction as 589 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: well to see, um, if it makes sense for them. 590 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, look, we're we're in a position 591 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: where we really just want to focus on building our 592 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: own products, and um, it may be a bad situation, 593 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: um if this deal doesn't go through for the customers involved. 594 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: And so I have a lot of sympathy for that, um, 595 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: but it's not something where we felt we had the 596 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: option to come in and acquire that would make sense 597 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 1: for us or their customers. Well, let's talk about the customers. 598 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,839 Speaker 1: What's your pitch to f t X users about why 599 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: they should move their funds to coin base over binance. Yeah. Well, 600 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: as I mentioned at the beginning, I mean, Combus has 601 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 1: always taken this approach over the last ten years of 602 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: being the most trusted, the easiest to use out there, 603 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: and we developed this suite of products over time that 604 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,800 Speaker 1: allows people to come to our platform and not just trade, 605 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: but do all the other kinds of activity you know, 606 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: staking um, if they want to participate in that, engaging 607 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 1: in commerce web three, various things like that. And of 608 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,720 Speaker 1: course we serve different customer segments to we serve regular 609 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: individual consumers, you know, institutional businesses and also developers. And 610 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: I think the core thing is that, um, you know, 611 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that would cause the customer 612 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: to choose our platform, but in this exact moment in 613 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: the market. I think the main thing that the top 614 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: of mind for them are is going to be are 615 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: my funds safe? How do I know that? Is this 616 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: a transparent and regulated firm or is this something where 617 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: I don't have great visibility into it? And what's my 618 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: counterparty risk? Um? So those are the questions people are 619 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: probably gonna be asking in this moment, and that's probably 620 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: a good reason why they'd come and look at coin base. 621 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 1: In fact, we're seeing, um, we're seeing good inflows and 622 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,720 Speaker 1: activity on the platform, as you can probably imagine. Oh really, 623 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 1: you're seeing big inflows right now. Yes, we're definitely seeing 624 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: increased activity on the platform there. How concerned are you 625 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: that finance will have too much power over crypto if 626 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: this deal goes through? Yeah? I mean so the decentralization 627 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: is one of the big topics in crypto and it's 628 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: kind of a core ethos, and so I definitely think 629 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: there's a risk in any sense of any party having 630 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: too much control. Um. You know, I don't want to 631 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: speculate too much on what binuses ROLL would or would 632 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:42,760 Speaker 1: not be, but I think that's up for the market 633 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: to decide, right And um, yeah, I I think that 634 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: that will get worked out. I don't have any like 635 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 1: particular thing that we need to do there, but I 636 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: do think it's the top of mind thing for everyone 637 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: in crypto. They don't want any one party to have 638 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 1: too much control. On that note, then, how do you 639 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: this will impact crypto regulation in d C, which, as 640 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:08,800 Speaker 1: you know, has been very much a work in progress. Yeah, 641 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 1: so we've certainly been big advocates UM working with policymakers 642 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: in d C to come to more regulatory clarity, especially 643 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: around centralized exchanges and custodians and stable coins. UM. We 644 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 1: also think that the innovation potential in defy and self 645 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: custodial wallets that needs to be preserved. And I actually 646 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 1: think by the way, those things have the ability to 647 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: create an even more UM, transparent and trusted financial system 648 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: going forward, because all of those things are on chain 649 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: in the open, and you know, you don't have to 650 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,799 Speaker 1: trust a third party. You can basically trust math and 651 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: code and UM and yourself to operate in those environments. 652 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: So it's very important to preserve that potential. But I think, 653 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 1: you know, one of my big fears and the thing 654 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 1: I would caution against is that I think some people 655 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: in d C may be tempted to say, hey, this 656 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: is why we need more stringent regulation, and I guess 657 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: my pushback to that would be these, uh, these exchanges 658 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: were you know, are operating largely offshore unregulated. Um, it 659 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: was not because of proposed regulation here in the US 660 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,720 Speaker 1: or in any other major market that the The issue 661 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: here is that most of the regulators have been too 662 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,919 Speaker 1: focused on onshore companies that are basically trying to play 663 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: by the rules, like coin Base, and that's fine to 664 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: focus somewhat there, but meanwhile, the customers were going to 665 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: these offshore unregulated exchanges, and um, the regulators basically we're 666 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: not sanctioning that activity or preventing it from happening, and 667 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 1: so we're seeing that risk now emerged. So I think 668 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: the regulatory proposals that are in motion, like the d 669 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: C S t p A bill going through Congress, these 670 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: are you know, heading in the right direction. Some of 671 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 1: the language needs to be thought more closely, especially around 672 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: DE five. But if that kind of stuff comes to fruition, 673 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: that'll be good. Then we just need to enforce a 674 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: level playing field for the whole industry. And that's the 675 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 1: part that that has not been happening to date. And 676 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 1: just to give you one statistic, you know, if you 677 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: look at the thought and future, is volume more than 678 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: that crypto activity Trading volumes actually moved outside of the US, 679 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:01,839 Speaker 1: and I think it's largely been due to that lack 680 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: of regulatory clarity. What happens if this deal doesn't go through, Brian? 681 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: What then? Well, um, you know, it does appear that 682 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: some customers of ft X would be taking losses and 683 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 1: that's not a good thing for anybody. Um, And then 684 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: I think the industry, you know, needs to think about 685 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: how to go on from there and again seek that 686 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: clear regulation, get the level playing field. It's enforced equally 687 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,840 Speaker 1: around the world. And um, you know, companies succeeded, companies failed. 688 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: That's part of capitalism. It happens in traditional finance as well. Um, 689 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that the whole thing gets the 690 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 1: whole traditional economy gets called into questions. So the same 691 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: thing is true here in crypto. It just means we 692 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,360 Speaker 1: need to keep building better systems and have that regulatory 693 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: clarity for the centralized actors. Sam Bank Ben Freed has 694 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 1: been a huge political donor, big presence in Washington. Do 695 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,359 Speaker 1: you think he loses some credibility as a result of this. 696 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,239 Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard to imagine that he wouldn't. UM. 697 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a very difficult situation where, you know, 698 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: I actually think he was very passionate and articulate. UM. 699 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 1: In many of these meetings. He drove the conversation forward, 700 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 1: and I give him credit for that. UM. But there's 701 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 1: probably a lot of people in DC right now kind 702 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 1: of scratching their their head, feeling like they got duped 703 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: or deceived by this person who may have not had 704 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: things exactly in order. UM. And I don't you know, 705 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,400 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly how that happened and how he 706 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: ended up in that position, but UM, it might cause 707 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 1: them to be a little bit more skeptical of where 708 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 1: they're getting donations from or what the purpose of those 709 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: donations are. UM. And I hope it doesn't, you know, 710 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,759 Speaker 1: taint their view of the crypto industry broadly. There's a 711 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: lot of people out there, like myself that are in 712 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,840 Speaker 1: our policy team and many others, UM, you know, a 713 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: sixteen z and Han Ventures and Paradigm that out there 714 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: driving a lot of this regulatory and policy work. And yeah, 715 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 1: I hope they remember that there's people working in the 716 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 1: space that are that are here for the long term. 717 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: I'm strong so of Cooin based. Thank you for making 718 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,040 Speaker 1: time to come speak with us today. Brian really appreciate it. 719 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,800 Speaker 1: Thank you, Emily, and that does it for this edition 720 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 1: of the show. We've got a great show for you 721 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,279 Speaker 1: tomorrow as well. Reid Hoffman will be joining us to 722 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: talk about AI in the next decade of tech innovation. 723 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: Plus Elon Musk and Twitter and Gary Tan of Initialized Capital, 724 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 1: We're gonna be talking about the future of startups in 725 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,319 Speaker 1: San Francisco. I'm Emily Chang in San Francisco. This is 726 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:26,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg