Speaker 1: My name is Jeffrey Z Carrian, and you're listening to
Speaker 1: four Courses with Jeffrey Zcarrian from my Heart Radio. Today
Speaker 1: we're continuing are Turning the Table series where our executive
Speaker 1: producer Chris Hasiotis takes over as our host and puts
Speaker 1: me in the hot seat to answer questions about how
Speaker 1: I got to where I am today. This is the
Speaker 1: third and final episode in this series. If you miss
Speaker 1: parts one and to make sure you check out those first,
Speaker 1: otherwise you're going to be picking up on the story
Speaker 1: of a pretty fleshed out version of myself, which if
Speaker 1: you have listened to parts one and two, you know
Speaker 1: wasn't always the case. Today, Christopher and I talked about
Speaker 1: what I usually discussed with guests during our fourth and
Speaker 1: final course together, the future, those tough questions about growth
Speaker 1: and risk and balance between work and family that I
Speaker 1: love to ask our guests. Towards the end of our conversations, yep,
Speaker 1: Chris turned those back to me. Also, please enjoy. You know,
Speaker 1: you get to a point where you've opened restaurants, you
Speaker 1: have these relationships with hotels, and you've got to keep growing, right,
Speaker 1: and some people are satisfied cooking opening, running restaurants over
Speaker 1: and over and over again. And you did that for
Speaker 1: a while. But I'd like to know more about what
Speaker 1: opportunities there are for people who work in the food
Speaker 1: world now who have had that chef experienced. You know,
Speaker 1: these days, there's there are things like cruise ship restaurants, consultancies,
Speaker 1: licensing deals, designing food and beverage programs for restaurants while
Speaker 1: not running them. You know, this element of the business
Speaker 1: behind the business. That's something that you seem to be
Speaker 1: really adept at navigating. Yeah, that's a great question. It's
Speaker 1: a big question, and I'll try to bite off a
Speaker 1: small chunks at a time, but I think you know,
Speaker 1: for me, I go in a restaurant, a new restaurant,
Speaker 1: and I see it, and I hear the buzz, and
Speaker 1: I feel a buzz and I'm like, oh god, I remember.
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel it. I love it. But it's
Speaker 1: separated now, it's compartmentalized into do I want to do
Speaker 1: it in the same way I did it before? And
Speaker 1: you know, it's like Billy Joel, I heard of podcast
Speaker 1: and he's you know, I can't. I'm not gonna be
Speaker 1: able to do any conscience anymore because I wrote that
Speaker 1: music in my twenties when my voice was up here.
Speaker 1: I can't hit those notes anymore. So singing it's incredibly
Speaker 1: physical and difficult. I'm not at that point, but a
Speaker 1: physicality of opening a restaurant, being there all the time
Speaker 1: because people want to see if you put your name
Speaker 1: on it. It's very hard, and it's probably the reason
Speaker 1: a lot of people, a lot of chefs get physically
Speaker 1: and emotionally run over the problem of the lifestyle and
Speaker 1: the problem of the hours needed to launch yourself into
Speaker 1: a position where you have a brand of sorts. But
Speaker 1: I think what I've done and what I've tried to
Speaker 1: do Christopher is okay. I love everything about the restaurant business.
Speaker 1: I don't just love the food in the artist try.
Speaker 1: I love teaching, so I love doing zoom classes and
Speaker 1: teaching and I do lots of that. And I love
Speaker 1: product I love everything that's about. Where is that from
Speaker 1: this product? That I love? All that I've learned all that.
Speaker 1: So I'm doing products now with some retail companies to
Speaker 1: back me, and I do the products I want to do,
Speaker 1: and I love solving problems for home cook So I
Speaker 1: came up with some pans that like, we're teflon and
Speaker 1: cast iron and they work, and we just created off
Speaker 1: of that. I still do restaurants, albeit not as many
Speaker 1: because they don't have the physical time or energy. But
Speaker 1: I think that my use I want to be useful
Speaker 1: to people and bring value to someone. So there will
Speaker 1: be restaurants, But what kind of restaurants I'll bring We
Speaker 1: the restaurants were was serving very simple food made very specifically,
Speaker 1: very delicious, but a consistently great vibe in a restaurant. Hustle, bustle, bright, happy, loud,
Speaker 1: that kind of restaurant. I probably won't do fine dyning
Speaker 1: anymore because it's not who I am anymore. It's I
Speaker 1: learned through fine dining. But now I choose to want
Speaker 1: to do something that's more fun and more like I
Speaker 1: can do more things with the food and have it
Speaker 1: be laid back enough but still great food. Like you said,
Speaker 1: in New York, the food is amazing. You can go
Speaker 1: to food now basically sit it a an empty plawood table,
Speaker 1: have a Michelin star meal and re Dell glasses and
Speaker 1: you're in like a restaurant that was probably a deli before,
Speaker 1: and they just like spiffed it up and it's all
Speaker 1: is pre fixed, and that's wonderful. You know, the bells
Speaker 1: and whistles are gone. You don't have to do all
Speaker 1: that stuff. Really, it's about the food and the experience,
Speaker 1: and they really get it and they strip it away.
Speaker 1: So I think for those who want to do other things,
Speaker 1: just you know, aim at something. There's so much in
Speaker 1: the culinary world now that is like you said, behind
Speaker 1: the scenes. It's creative, but you don't have any of
Speaker 1: the brain damage of operating a restaurant, which is a
Speaker 1: lot of brain damage. No one wants to talk about it.
Speaker 1: You know. What this makes me think of, Jeffrey, is
Speaker 1: when you had Gael Simmons on on your show, you
Speaker 1: kind of had a little off handed comment in your
Speaker 1: conversation and and maybe it was a joke, but you
Speaker 1: said that you wanted to open an Armenian diner one day,
Speaker 1: and she said she'd be there, And I just want
Speaker 1: to tell you I would be there on day one two.
Speaker 1: I think that's a great idea and I would love
Speaker 1: to eat that simple, fun, approachable Armenian food. So I
Speaker 1: just need to find four very old Armenian ladies because
Speaker 1: that's the kind of restaurant, Well, you will have family
Speaker 1: in the kitchen, and there are those kind of restaurants.
Speaker 1: Not enough of that, you know what, I'll have. Our
Speaker 1: producer Jonathan pulled the demographics of who listens to the
Speaker 1: show and if we have enough Armenian grandma's out there listening,
Speaker 1: or or if you are or have an Armenian grandma,
Speaker 1: reach out to Jeffrey and uh I I that would
Speaker 1: be fun because that's the kind of food. That's the
Speaker 1: first stuff I put in my mouth, and that was
Speaker 1: still I. I reach for those flavors. So I think
Speaker 1: that this field someone like myself, I can only open
Speaker 1: multiples of restaurants and I put my name on them.
Speaker 1: That I'm sure I'm gonna like be good because once
Speaker 1: you put your name on it, like they're gonna come
Speaker 1: after you. It's just the way it is. I mean,
Speaker 1: John George has a gigantic operation and he has thirty
Speaker 1: five restaurants or thirty restaurants. And that might not sound
Speaker 1: like a lot, because you know Chipotle or Sweet Green
Speaker 1: says hundreds. You know, Shake Shack has a thousand. To
Speaker 1: have thirty restaurants at that level, this astoundingly complicated. It's amazing.
Speaker 1: If I were to do thirty restaurants would be thirty
Speaker 1: very simple restaurants. I would aim for a hundred, but
Speaker 1: doing very simple. So there's so much opportunity because of
Speaker 1: the pandemic and because of how food is now so global,
Speaker 1: so social, so entertainment. It's an entertainment industry. It's no
Speaker 1: longer a food industry only Jeffrey. A lot of listeners
Speaker 1: to this podcast probably first got to know you on TV.
Speaker 1: You were on Iron Chef America, The Kitchen Chopped, and
Speaker 1: these days food on TV seems like a given, but
Speaker 1: that wasn't always the case. So I'd love it if
Speaker 1: you could walk us through that decision early on when
Speaker 1: you had an opportunity to say, is a TV career
Speaker 1: something I, as a chef want to do. It's not proven,
Speaker 1: but I want to dive in. What was your decision
Speaker 1: making process like at the time. Well, I have a
Speaker 1: couple of comments on that one. First of all, when
Speaker 1: I grew up as a grade school student from the
Speaker 1: ages I would say nine to that fourteen range, and
Speaker 1: I used to come home for lunch at an hour
Speaker 1: and I was ten minutes always, so I came home
Speaker 1: a bunch your mom would make me at lunch, which
Speaker 1: is very nice at my mom and she would have
Speaker 1: it ready on a TV stand and I was sit
Speaker 1: in front of the TV and watch my favorite show
Speaker 1: at the time, which was The Galloping Gourmet. Little did
Speaker 1: I know that I would be doing exactly what that
Speaker 1: man was doing on TV and say ten years from
Speaker 1: then going to Europe. But The Galloping Gourmet was a
Speaker 1: show run by a gentleman named Graham Care and his
Speaker 1: wife produced the show I Leave. It was on PBS.
Speaker 1: It was extremely successful. I think it ran for ten
Speaker 1: seasons and for lack of a better terminology, it's one
Speaker 1: of the first cooking shows. It was that Julia child
Speaker 1: that was it me there's nothing else. And he would
Speaker 1: dress up in a double breasted suit and tie all
Speaker 1: spiffy it out cravat and he would run it was
Speaker 1: a live show on TV. He run down to his
Speaker 1: kitchen which is an open kitchen set with a kitchen
Speaker 1: and oven and the cabinets and bag very much like today,
Speaker 1: and a table set for two in front of the kitchen,
Speaker 1: and he would show I went to Italy and today
Speaker 1: we're cooking. I don't know Nato, blah blah, blah, whatever
Speaker 1: he cooked, and I want to show you what I mean.
Speaker 1: And then in the back of screen would come up
Speaker 1: and it was him in Europe at this restaurant, dining
Speaker 1: with his wife and this candle life and he's eating
Speaker 1: and he's showing this, and he's going in the kitchen
Speaker 1: and this flambaying happening, and he's showing on TV video
Speaker 1: of what he did. So he had this production company
Speaker 1: and will go with him and everything was handle it
Speaker 1: and he would take this bite. He would close his eyes,
Speaker 1: put his head back, salivate and just have a glass
Speaker 1: of wine. And like, oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 1: He was eating that dish. They panned over the audience
Speaker 1: and people like salivate. You can see them their mouths
Speaker 1: opening and closing. I'll never figure that as long as
Speaker 1: I live, because at that point in time, something was
Speaker 1: going on with me, because like, oh my god, then
Speaker 1: you cook the dish. And then he said, come on, everybody,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna show you how to cook this Vitello's not
Speaker 1: and he cook it in front of you, whild drinking
Speaker 1: probably a bottle of wine, and he would pull some
Speaker 1: from the audience, tell all stories. While he was doing
Speaker 1: so and I had this and I said, you think
Speaker 1: that's funny? It would like begg you make fun of
Speaker 1: people while he's cooking this. Okay, back to the veal
Speaker 1: and then they would pull one person sit down and
Speaker 1: that was the end of the show. I'm Graham care
Speaker 1: cheers and clink and they would eat the dish together.
Speaker 1: That was the show. And so I'm dying to do
Speaker 1: that show. Hey, I've been pitching it forever and it
Speaker 1: really made a huge impact on me that I carried
Speaker 1: forward into the restaurant world. So but TV that was
Speaker 1: the beginning. Food Howur came around the late nineties. I
Speaker 1: think it's thirty years old. It changed the world. Now
Speaker 1: you have instead of two patrons a day before watching
Speaker 1: a show, there's a million or two million people watching
Speaker 1: that show you, So there's so many more eyeballs. It
Speaker 1: jumps started revved up the restaurant world. So that we
Speaker 1: created in thirty or forty years in New York in
Speaker 1: this country what it took three hundred years to create
Speaker 1: in Europe. We caught up and now we surpassed them,
Speaker 1: I believe in a lot of ways. So TV is everything.
Speaker 1: Did I think I was gonna be on TV. No.
Speaker 1: Was I enamored by it? Absolutely? Who couldn't be? So
Speaker 1: I was named by Graham care the Wild Wild West,
Speaker 1: James Bond, and then I ended up in France. I mean,
Speaker 1: go figure. So I think that for me, my first
Speaker 1: shot came. They gave me this opportunity a judge on Chopped,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, at first, I said, what Chopped? What's this?
Speaker 1: What's the show? I knew Bobby Flay was on TV
Speaker 1: so and he was very successful. It was still in
Speaker 1: the sort of wonky phase, but not in two thousand seven.
Speaker 1: It was like full flight. They said, yeah, you wanted
Speaker 1: They wanted to be on Chopped. They want a really
Speaker 1: successful chef. And at that time I ran a lot
Speaker 1: of restaurants and I had like a lot of good reviews,
Speaker 1: and they wanted a food expert. They had like different personalities,
Speaker 1: someone chef, a restaurateur, and maybe a baker or something
Speaker 1: like that was always a mix. And I heard the
Speaker 1: premise of the show. I thought it was ridiculous at first,
Speaker 1: and then I went to do a sizzle reel. We
Speaker 1: didn't get paid anything for it was I remember how
Speaker 1: how wonky it was, and I'm like, this is never
Speaker 1: gonna last. And that was twelve years, seven and fifty
Speaker 1: episodes later, and I never forget when I was invited
Speaker 1: after that to do Iron Chef and and I won
Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven, and everyone said, I never knew
Speaker 1: you were a chef. I thought you were a judge chopped,
Speaker 1: and I was like, wow. It dawned on me that
Speaker 1: perception is everything. It's perception. It's not reality, it's perception
Speaker 1: of reality. It didn't matter how many stars I had,
Speaker 1: how many years I cooked, thirty years, killing myself and
Speaker 1: you know, cooking for not making any money, and that
Speaker 1: didn't matter. It was like, you're on TV. Now they
Speaker 1: know you're a chef. So it's like an aha moment, right,
Speaker 1: So the power TV is something you need to really
Speaker 1: use if you have the ability to use it, and
Speaker 1: I'm blessed to have the ability to use it now.
Speaker 1: It worked very hard to get on TV, and I'm
Speaker 1: thankful that I got on TV because of my relationship
Speaker 1: with food and my knowledge of restaurants and food. That's great.
Speaker 1: So I am doing what I'm naturally good at doing.
Speaker 1: So I think that there's no end now. Social media
Speaker 1: is like really, you know, lost it and it's TikTok cooking.
Speaker 1: There's I G t V, Facebook, Twitter, Every imaginable person
Speaker 1: now has is a cook, Every actor is a cooked,
Speaker 1: every author now has a favorite recipe. It's like it's
Speaker 1: another part of the world that they are now allowed
Speaker 1: to open up the world to their love of food
Speaker 1: because it's it's ingratiating. It's shown to me, make you human,
Speaker 1: and people go nuts. And that is why it can't end.
Speaker 1: The paradigms change. But it's not going to end because
Speaker 1: you do it three times a day, and it's one
Speaker 1: of the most enjoyable reasons to be alive is to eat.
Speaker 1: And the access now to with TV and social media
Speaker 1: to food, even if you're watching someone cook or watching
Speaker 1: someone do a kitchen hack, is remarkable. It's just remarkable, Jeffrey.
Speaker 1: Anyone who has paid attention to your social media, who's
Speaker 1: watched you on the kitchen, anyone who has even come
Speaker 1: across your name in the past three or four or
Speaker 1: five years, they know that family is super important to you.
Speaker 1: Your wife, Margaret is your business partner, your daughters are
Speaker 1: writing a cookbook. Tell me what it's like to fold
Speaker 1: family and cooking and business all into the same basket.
Speaker 1: It's a delightful basket I wake up every morning. I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful that I have the ability to somehow pull
Speaker 1: off my eating, love of eating into like a career
Speaker 1: that can help provide for my family. And my family
Speaker 1: is learning to provide now why writing that cookbook? And
Speaker 1: my daughters wrote that themselves without my help, and it
Speaker 1: became a bestseller, And I'm so proud of them. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, that's a good way to get into college.
Speaker 1: You wrote a book at twelve. That's cool, that's really cool.
Speaker 1: And I try to tell them that whatever you want
Speaker 1: to do, that's a cool thing to do. And you
Speaker 1: might not know the impact of it now, but it
Speaker 1: does register. And I'll go ahead and plug that for you.
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Listeners that that book is The Family That Cooks Together.
Speaker 1: It came out, Yeah, imagine right in the middle of
Speaker 1: the pandemic. Family family and home cooking during lockdown became
Speaker 1: a very very important thing. I think that's something that
Speaker 1: you really conveyed to through your social media, through your videos,
Speaker 1: you know, really reaching out to people during a time
Speaker 1: when when we were all at home. You know, it
Speaker 1: was one of those things like, let's take a breath.
Speaker 1: We all took a collective breath, and you're on social media.
Speaker 1: You're not going to work, your kids aren't going to school.
Speaker 1: What are you doing. We're doing the same thing we
Speaker 1: used to do, except we enjoyed it a whole hell
Speaker 1: of a lot more. I mean, we shop, I shopped,
Speaker 1: We grew a garden, We did all the things that
Speaker 1: a munday sort of silly. You think they're goofy and
Speaker 1: never get a chance to do it. But I'm gonna
Speaker 1: tell you something. I challenge anybody here, the smartest person
Speaker 1: that's listening, I challenge anybody. I challenged Jeff Bezos to
Speaker 1: go buy an acrel land, planted himself and grow and
Speaker 1: eat what he grows. It's hard. The skill of farming
Speaker 1: is right up there. I'm sorry, I'm gonna say that.
Speaker 1: It is so difficult, so reliant on nothing. You can't
Speaker 1: control anything. All you can control is watering and you
Speaker 1: know the amount amount of knowledge you get and what
Speaker 1: kind of dirt to use. That's about it. You can't
Speaker 1: control the sign, you can't control the wind, you can't
Speaker 1: control the plant. You can't control bacteria, flies, infestation, anything.
Speaker 1: You can't control rabbits suit. It's hard, and when you
Speaker 1: learn how to do that, you you really have an
Speaker 1: appreciation for what you what goes into the people that
Speaker 1: do this for a living. It's just like you assume
Speaker 1: to find these perfect peppers and package baby zucchini a
Speaker 1: labeled and numbered and waiting and being spritsed with water.
Speaker 1: It's just like, it's there, no problem. It's a huge problem.
Speaker 1: You learned that during pandemic, and I think we all
Speaker 1: learned a valuable lessons about like, all right, let's be
Speaker 1: grateful for all we have and just see how hard
Speaker 1: it is and how lucky we have it that basically
Speaker 1: at a click you can get anything you want from
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world. You have no idea how lucky
Speaker 1: we are be at this juncture. So I think a
Speaker 1: lot of that came to it. And I think the
Speaker 1: viewers we just post me cutting an onion, and you
Speaker 1: cut an onion, and my wife Margaret would say, like,
Speaker 1: let me hold on a second, what are you doing.
Speaker 1: I'm cutting anice and let me get that. I'm like okay,
Speaker 1: and you'd get a d fifty thousand people liking it.
Speaker 1: I'm like wow, And of course this is doing the
Speaker 1: kitchen we've been working on it, but we never really
Speaker 1: paid attention to the posting, and so now we just
Speaker 1: do simple things that would be to me like I
Speaker 1: don't know, like how to mow your lawn, you know,
Speaker 1: would be that sort of mundane. But it's fascinating that
Speaker 1: people I really are interested in in in the pandemic
Speaker 1: behind the curtain. Right, It's like the Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 1: Now you're in my in my my kitchen, you're seeing
Speaker 1: my products, you're seeing my oven, and people comment, oh
Speaker 1: I love that, Oh I have one of those two.
Speaker 1: I'm using the same salt. You know. It's like this
Speaker 1: humanity again, and it resonated and it resonated with us
Speaker 1: as a family. My wife and I are working together
Speaker 1: for years, but this year was really tough because now
Speaker 1: we're working together and then now we're now you're on
Speaker 1: the camera and I'm cooking and there's no prep helping.
Speaker 1: It's like we're actually working, you know, and we're gardening
Speaker 1: and we're raising and we're running a school. Right. I've
Speaker 1: never worked so hard in my life. But I honestly
Speaker 1: just to say this with all my heart, it was
Speaker 1: it was a remarkable gift in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: and we talked about it all the time. So we
Speaker 1: wrote a book. It was finished long before the pandemic.
Speaker 1: We just wrote this book that we thought would be
Speaker 1: nice to write about it. What we cooked together miraculous says,
Speaker 1: Miraculous things happened. It was very timely. And so the
Speaker 1: family that it cooks together, it needs together. The family
Speaker 1: that cooks together does it together, and it's them. I
Speaker 1: always say, the most important time you have is the
Speaker 1: is the time you sit around the table and eat,
Speaker 1: because you you need to talk. You'll fight and you'll
Speaker 1: like want to leave the table and you'll check your
Speaker 1: into a grand but you're like you're around the table,
Speaker 1: and that is very important. So, like I said, I'm
Speaker 1: blessed to have this family that's interested in this business.
Speaker 1: I don't know how interested they're gonna but I don't
Speaker 1: really care. It's like whatever makes them happy. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think they'll find that. It took me a long
Speaker 1: time to find it, and I thought I found an economics,
Speaker 1: but it like kind of found me. So I hope
Speaker 1: it happens to them in a sort of serendipitous way
Speaker 1: like that, because it's it's really fun when it happens
Speaker 1: when you don't know what's going to happen. Jeffrey, we
Speaker 1: started this conversation talking about some of your earliest food memories.
Speaker 1: Things that you're polish dishes, Armenia dishes, the things that
Speaker 1: your parents, your aunt you know, your your family really
Speaker 1: gave you these memories through dishes and and it may
Speaker 1: have just been that something that was cooked to them,
Speaker 1: it may have been SuperOrdinary, but to you, that's an
Speaker 1: iconic taste. And so I think the more that you
Speaker 1: and and anyone listening, but but that you have these
Speaker 1: experiences in the kitchen with your daughters, with your son,
Speaker 1: that's the way that you form those memories. Right we
Speaker 1: we sit around the table, and the more you do that,
Speaker 1: who knows what memories we will pass along to our kids.
Speaker 1: You know, they may they may love one thing they
Speaker 1: had one time and to you, that was a forgettable
Speaker 1: dish that that really didn't you know, it's not something
Speaker 1: you'd put back on the menu, but they loved. So
Speaker 1: this is kind of you're taking an active hand in
Speaker 1: building that foundation in the same way it was built
Speaker 1: for you through family and through togetherness and through time
Speaker 1: at the table. Yeah, and you know it also dove
Speaker 1: tails for me into like being of use to someone
Speaker 1: and being abused to yourself and what are you doing
Speaker 1: for a living? And I think of it all the
Speaker 1: time about like he was like, what are you driving?
Speaker 1: You always doing this? You're doing so much? How can
Speaker 1: you do this? You're everywhere? And I'm like, I know,
Speaker 1: I think, I I don't think I'm everywhere. I think
Speaker 1: I feel like I could do more. And I feel
Speaker 1: like when I'm most satisfied, And I think that the
Speaker 1: word happy is a minefield. But when I feel that
Speaker 1: I'm being helpful helping someone, or bringing value to someone
Speaker 1: or smile to someone's faces, when I feel that sense
Speaker 1: of like, this is it. This is what meaning the
Speaker 1: meaning of like content means, you're content. I'm content when
Speaker 1: I put a piece of food down for people and
Speaker 1: I call them around the table and they start eating it,
Speaker 1: and I see their face and their reaction and they're
Speaker 1: really eating it and really enjoying it. And for those
Speaker 1: few moments an hour, you've made six, eight, ten people
Speaker 1: happy and they're enjoying the process of eating because it
Speaker 1: is a process, and that is very gratifying. I can
Speaker 1: only tell you that's very gratifying because those things gratify me.
Speaker 1: And you can tell right away when it doesn't gratify,
Speaker 1: it just doesn't feel It's like this is I'm just
Speaker 1: going through emotions. It doesn't feel right. So I always
Speaker 1: try to tell people, like, find something that when you
Speaker 1: do it, you're gratified. It brings value to someone, it
Speaker 1: brings brings a smile. It sounds simple, but it's like
Speaker 1: it helps the daily chaos. It really does. And then
Speaker 1: your day has become full of gratifying moments and you
Speaker 1: pass them on to your kids. And look, I'll be
Speaker 1: crazy to tell you that I'm not trying to make
Speaker 1: the kids understand table manners and get to the table.
Speaker 1: They all know it's you're sitting down. We don't grab
Speaker 1: breakfast and leave. And they understand that this ritual is
Speaker 1: important to our family, this particular ritual. So some families
Speaker 1: have different rituals, but the ritual of sitting down, pausing
Speaker 1: and putting something that's made for you and being respectful
Speaker 1: of the person that makes that and being respectful of,
Speaker 1: like I said that before, the people that grow and
Speaker 1: make this food. It's like kind of remarkable that it
Speaker 1: all works. And I try to tell my children this
Speaker 1: is what this means. This is what you don't get.
Speaker 1: And what was wonderful is to watch them write the
Speaker 1: book and like dad, we have to do it again.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, the rest of me again, how many times
Speaker 1: until it's right? Well, Jeffrey, that that makes me really
Speaker 1: value the very first time you and I ever met,
Speaker 1: it was over breakfast and uh and so I appreciate that. Jeffrey,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Chris,
Speaker 1: Thanks very much for listening to Four Courses this year.
Speaker 1: I've truly enjoyed talking with so many amazing guests. Myself
Speaker 1: and our team are taking a short break until after
Speaker 1: the New Year, and then we'll be back soon with
Speaker 1: more exciting updates. Don't forget to subscribe to four Courses
Speaker 1: on your favorite podcasting app and we'll be back before
Speaker 1: you know it. Happy holiday and have a great new year.
Speaker 1: Thanks very much for listening to Four Courses with Jeffrey
Speaker 1: Z Carrion, a production of I Heart Radio and Corner
Speaker 1: Table Entertainment. Four Courses is created by Jeffrey Z Carrion,
Speaker 1: Margaret Zacarrion, Jared Keller, and Tara Helper. Our executive producer
Speaker 1: is Christopher Hesiotis. Four Courses is produced by Jonathan Hawes Dressler.
Speaker 1: Our research is conducted by Jesselyn Shields. Our talent booking
Speaker 1: is by Pamela Bauer at Dogtown Talent. This episode was
Speaker 1: edited and written by Priya Mahadevan. Special thanks to Katie
Speaker 1: Fellman for help as recording engineered. For more podcasts from
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.