1 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 2: I have a fourteen year old daughter. 3 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: So it's Taylor Swift Mania in our house. It's been 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: the background music to our entire lives for a bit, 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: but right now it's really in overdrive. A line from 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: a Taylor song that was released last year has been 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: in my mind. The song is now that we don't talk, 8 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: and the line is I called my mom. 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 2: She said to get it off my chest. 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: And I always jokingly point out to my daughter like, look, 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: Taylor calls her mom. You know, when you grow up, 12 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: maybe you should call your mom and they talk about stuff, 13 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: and maybe we should talk about stuff. So I'm planting 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: the seeds. But I think about things like this, like 15 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: getting things off your chest a lot, because I'm someone 16 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: who holds everything in. Every once in a while, I'll 17 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: surprise my husband with like a bunch of bad news 18 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: that I've been holding inside. I mean, nothing too bad, 19 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: maybe in argument with someone or worries I have, but 20 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 1: the kind of bad that burns and turns into something 21 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: far worse than it is when you don't let it out. 22 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: Last week, I talked about knowing what will make you 23 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: feel better and still not doing it. You know, the 24 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: whole reading fiction before bed. I know that makes me 25 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: feel better than scrolling, and yet I still don't do it. 26 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: And that's really the hardest part to overcome. When you 27 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 2: don't know what's wrong, that's one thing. 28 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: It's when you know something is good for you, but 29 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: you just don't do it anyway. I mean, it makes 30 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: me feel kind of dumb. There's this meme going around 31 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: where a girl says she's not feeling well and another 32 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: voice asks her a bunch of questions about what it 33 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: could be. 34 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: Let's play the clip. 35 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 3: It's feeling only down these days. I don't know. Why 36 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 3: have you exercised today? 37 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: No? 38 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 3: Did you go outside? 39 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: No? 40 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 3: Did you talk to anyone? 41 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: No? 42 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 3: Did you eat well? 43 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 4: No? 44 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 3: Did you limit your scrolling time? No? Do you make 45 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 3: any plans? 46 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 4: No? 47 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 3: Did you drink enough water? Did you get enough sleep? 48 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: Now? Wait? 49 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 3: Yes, yes to that one. 50 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 4: Yeah? 51 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 3: No, it's what a mystery? Yeah? 52 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: I mean I find myself asking those questions of myself 53 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: a lot. 54 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: It gets very. 55 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: Easy to stay in my own head and just do 56 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: about things and then wonder why I'm not sleeping at 57 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: three am? And all of these things. You know, eating, 58 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: going outside. It's just better living through doing really simple things. 59 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: What a concept. I don't have the answer on how 60 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: to get yourself to do the things that will improve 61 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: your life, but the easy ones like going outside or eating, 62 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: or talking to someone if something is bothering you should 63 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: be where we all start again. I'm far from perfect 64 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: on this, but it's something I'm working on and maybe 65 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: we can do it together. I love your emails. I've 66 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: gotten so many good ones about things that you guys 67 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: do to improve your lives. Please keep them coming. It's 68 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,119 Speaker 1: Carol marco It Show at gmail dot com and I'll 69 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: read some in the next few episodes. Coming up next 70 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: an interview with Nick Gillespie. Join us after the break. 71 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My 72 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: guest today is Nick Gillespie, Editor at Large at Reason, 73 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: the libertarian magazine of free minds and free markets, and 74 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: host of the Reason Interview with Nick Gillespie. 75 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 4: Hi, Nick, Hey, how are you doing. Carol? Nice to 76 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 4: talk with you. 77 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: So nice to have you on. 78 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: When I was thinking about how to introduce you and 79 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: I was looking up your bio, I was thinking, you know, 80 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: Nick Gillespie, the libertarian, you know, the icon of the libertarian. 81 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: You're an icon in the libertarian movement for sure. Man 82 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: about town in New York, and just I think I 83 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: really do think of you when I think of libertarians 84 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: in general. 85 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 4: Would explain why we, you know, aren't better known. But 86 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 4: I appreciate the sentiment. 87 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: What would you be doing if you weren't doing this? Like, 88 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: what would be a plan be for you? 89 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 4: So it would have been probably it would most conceivably 90 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 4: one of two different outcomes. One is that when I 91 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 4: graduated from college, I'm sixty. I graduated college in nineteen 92 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 4: eighty eight. 93 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: It's crazy, by the way, you are, like just. 94 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 2: Really young looking. 95 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 4: I did not inherit any money literally from my parents, 96 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 4: but I inherited something, you know, and so I thank 97 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 4: them for. 98 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 2: That great hair. 99 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's all natural, Like none of this is 100 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 4: you know. I love human ingenuity and kind of staving 101 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 4: off aging and increasing what we can do. But I 102 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 4: haven't done any of that, but the two things. So 103 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 4: I graduated college. I was an English and psychology major 104 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 4: at Rutgers University. I was born in Brooklyn, grew up 105 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 4: in New Jersey, went to Rutgers, and I ended up writing. 106 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 4: I became a journalist because I wrote. When I was 107 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 4: in college, I worked on our daily newspaper with which 108 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 4: had a paying gig and everything, so it was very nice. 109 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 4: And I worked for a bunch of teen magazines and 110 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 4: music magazines in the late eighties. And I think, if 111 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 4: I was not doing what I'm doing now, I would 112 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 4: be an entertainment journalist. So I would be staking out 113 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 4: you know, Kardashian hideaways and things like that. 114 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 2: That sounds great. Why aren't you doing that? 115 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: Yeah? 116 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 4: I think about that on an almost hourly basis. But 117 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 4: then you know what happened towards After a few years 118 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 4: of doing that in New York and for you know, 119 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 4: kind of third rate magazines, which were a lot of 120 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 4: fun and whatnot. But I decided to go to grad 121 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 4: school for English, for creative writing and literary studies, and 122 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 4: I was going to be a professor. Wow, and what happened. 123 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 4: So I got a master's in English and creative writing 124 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 4: at a Temple University in Philly. Then I moved to Buffalo. 125 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 4: I met my future wife and ex wife, mother of 126 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 4: my children, where on very good terms, we spend Christmas 127 00:05:55,400 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 4: and holidays together. But we went to Buffalo to get 128 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 4: PhDs in English, and I was an American, so I 129 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 4: studied American literature. I was going to become an English professor. 130 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 4: And then Reason magazine, which I had been reading since 131 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 4: I was in high school, had a job opening that 132 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 4: they advertised in their pages. This was in nineteen ninety three, 133 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 4: and I applied for it and I got the job, 134 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 4: and then I've been there ever since. So the short 135 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 4: version is I would be running a teen magazine if 136 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 4: they even still exist, or a heavy metal magazine, or 137 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 4: i'd be a college profess. 138 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 2: What teen magazines did you write for? 139 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 4: I wrote for. This was a company called Sterling's Magazines. 140 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 4: I believe it's out of business. I wrote for two 141 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 4: magazines there. One was called Teen Machine and the other 142 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 4: that Super Teen. And yeah, so that's what I was 143 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 4: doing in the in the late eighties. 144 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: Interesting, I was going to guess, do you remember the 145 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: teen magazine Sase? 146 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: Yes, like it was really. 147 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 4: Key, Yeah I was. I was. I was not Sassy material. 148 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 4: Sassy was like the New Yorker of teen magazine. 149 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: I used to wait at the like newstand to get 150 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: my Sassy. I didn't understand the whole concept of subscribing 151 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: I just know, I knew the day it came out, 152 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: and I'd wait by the news dand and I was 153 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: so like, I loved it so much, and it was 154 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: very you know, looking back, it was definitely left of center, 155 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: but it was very be yourself, think whatever you want 156 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: to think, don't let anybody tell you what to think. 157 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: And I don't think you could do that anymore. 158 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: I don't think you could have a sassy magazine for 159 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: teenagers that you know, courages them to be themselves and 160 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: think whatever they want. Now. 161 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's that's interesting, and I'd be curious to think 162 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 4: about Sassy versus something like teen Vogue right where Sassy 163 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 4: was sexually forward, especially for the day. It was talking 164 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 4: about you know, kind of you know, harder issues than 165 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 4: most teen magazines, So you know, how do you win 166 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 4: a dream day with Turk Cameron or something? Right, But yeah, 167 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 4: it's it's fascinating to think about celebrity culture and the 168 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 4: way that that is a venue for kind of talking 169 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 4: about larger issues. 170 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: And you could be making a difference in your backup career. 171 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: You could be changing things. 172 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 4: You know, It's true. I could be at getting in 173 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 4: early right and making the anxious generation as John High 174 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 4: would call it, Yes, super anxious because I'd be like, hey, 175 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 4: you know what, everything the government is telling you is 176 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 4: li lie. 177 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: But are you always a libertarian, like even back then 178 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: when you're writing for those teen magazines? 179 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say so. I, Like I said, I 180 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 4: started reading Reason in high school. My brother, who's older 181 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 4: than me, was the first person in our family to 182 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 4: go to college, and he discovered Reason when he was 183 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 4: at college, and he brought it home for me, or 184 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 4: started sending me his old issues, and I was just 185 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 4: kind of like, I was much more into literature and 186 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 4: kind of movies and TV, but I was reading and 187 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 4: I was like, oh, this makes a lot of sense. 188 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 4: This makes a lot of sense. I stumbled across Milton 189 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 4: Friedman's Free to Choose Milton Rose Friedman's book, which had 190 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 4: been also made into a PBS series, and I started, 191 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 4: you know, what I liked about libertarianism was the idea 192 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 4: that it was individualistic, you know. And it's not that 193 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 4: being a libertarian doesn't mean you don't build communities, but 194 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 4: it's you know, you recognize you are responsible for yourself, 195 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 4: you know, and you need to do things. Nobody's going 196 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 4: to do things for you. And that really appealed to me. 197 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 4: I was also a teenage existentialist. I came across people 198 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 4: like Albert Camu and John Paul Sart and whatnot, and 199 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 4: and so libertarianism resonated with me. But in a lot 200 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 4: of ways, what resonated the most was that the Reason magazine, 201 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 4: and back then it was talking more about probably more 202 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 4: about economics than cultural issues, but also political issues. But 203 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 4: it was saying, you know what, like the truth is 204 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 4: much more complicated than what you're being told. It was, 205 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 4: you know, and I was like, wow, this is amazing. 206 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 4: It was like a secret history of reality that accorded 207 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 4: with my sense of things. You know that certain people 208 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 4: were always trying to tell you this is good for you. 209 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 4: You know, you have to do this, not like you 210 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 4: should do this, but like you have to. And so 211 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 4: that resonated. And by the time I got to college, 212 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 4: and certainly after college, I would call I called myself libertarian, 213 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 4: but you know, it was not front and center in 214 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 4: a sense. I mean, one of the things that I 215 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 4: think is really negative about the past, you know, forty 216 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 4: or fifty years, is that politics has moved from a 217 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 4: place where it's part of our identity to where it 218 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 4: is almost always or not always, but often the first 219 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 4: part of our identity. We call ourselves conservatives, progressives, libertarians, 220 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 4: you know, liberals, whatever, you know, right out of the bat. 221 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 4: And I think we'd be in a better world if 222 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 4: we were like, you know what, like I'm a human first, 223 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 4: and you know, whatever your political or ideological you know, 224 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 4: kind of commitments are, it's maybe fourth or fifth. 225 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: Interesting, Yeah, I definitely. I mean, I admit that my 226 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: political affiliation is very much front and center of who 227 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: I am. I consider myself libertarian adjacent. I think that 228 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: there were periods in my life where I thought I. 229 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: Was more libertarian than maybe I do today. 230 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: My fourteen year old daughter is like clearly going to 231 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: be a libertarian. 232 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: I don't know how to veer her off that path. 233 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 2: And I just kidding, you know what, it's great, it's great, 234 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 2: it's great. 235 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 4: It's really hard. But the best way to do it, 236 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 4: I think, And I said, you know, I have two 237 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 4: grown children now, but the best way is to let 238 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 4: them be responsible, you know. And obviously there's gradations in this. 239 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 4: You know, a fourteen year old can't make decisions that 240 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 4: a twenty eight year old is going to make, or 241 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 4: a set, you know, but they make more than a 242 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 4: seven year old or something. But let them make decisions 243 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 4: and let them live with the consequences. 244 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: Right. She's just always very like, no matter what anybody says, 245 00:11:59,040 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: she's always like, how's that. 246 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 2: The government's role? 247 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: And I'm like, God, oh yeah, how did I have 248 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: one of you? You know? 249 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 4: What's funny about that is, weirdly, over my time at Reason, 250 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 4: which has now been I've been here, I'm in my 251 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 4: thirty first year at Reason. Reason was founded in nineteen 252 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 4: sixty eight, so I've been around for a long time. 253 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 4: But even over the time I've been at Reason, I'd 254 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 4: say the libertarian movement has moved from being kind of 255 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 4: about limited government, like smaller government, and kind of a 256 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:32,479 Speaker 4: classical liberal view where government is not necessarily a criminal organization, 257 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 4: but it should be small, and it should be targeted 258 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 4: and it should be held to high standards. To a 259 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 4: lot of libertarians now really are anarchists, and they think 260 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 4: any government action at any level is not just likely 261 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 4: to be inefficient or incompetent, but it's actually like immoral 262 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 4: or evil. I don't subscribe to that, but it's kind 263 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 4: of fascinating to see why has that happened, and in 264 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 4: a weird way, I think a lot of Republicans and Democrats, 265 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 4: a lot of liberals and progressives or conservatives to leave 266 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 4: that too. And I wrote a piece a couple of 267 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 4: years ago for Reason talking about how what happens, you know, 268 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 4: when you move from being a high trust society to 269 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 4: a low trust society. In America has been doing that. Oddly, 270 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 4: people call for more government even though they know the 271 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 4: government is going to be bad a right doing, and 272 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 4: what we really need is a government that does fewer 273 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 4: things but does them competently and efficiently. 274 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: Right. So, yeah, I mean I have to say that 275 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: that's I feel that shift in myself. Like I used 276 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: to be very the government should just not do anything. 277 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: And I look, if everybody subscribed to that point of view, 278 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: I'm in. I'm in for smaller, smaller government. But it 279 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: turns out that it's like the left doesn't want smaller government. 280 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: So when they get controlled, they grow the government and 281 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: they and they have more power. 282 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 2: So but COVID years are really my example of this. 283 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: It's like in New York, it was like the governor's 284 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: going to have control over whether school's open, But in Florida, 285 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: the left push to have local control, not the governor control. 286 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: So it's always I felt like I was losing no 287 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: matter where, no matter what I mean. It definitely made 288 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: me more pro individual pro you know. So I don't know, 289 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: so maybe I am a libertarian somewhere in there. I 290 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: just know. It's like the labels don't matter, but they 291 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: kind of matter. 292 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know, I tend to use libertarian now 293 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 4: as an adjective rather than a noun, because I think 294 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 4: I think libertarian. Being libertarian is a kind of pre 295 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 4: political sensibility. It's kind of a temperament and it's you know, 296 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 4: it's a direction. It's not a set of dogma. And 297 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 4: you can be a libertarian Democrat or a libertarian Republican. 298 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 4: You can be a libertarian libertarian, you know, with capital 299 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 4: l or something. And I you know, for me, I 300 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 4: think government policies tend to work best when they're smaller 301 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 4: in scale, you know, because then the stakes are lower. 302 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 4: But also they can be more targeted and things work 303 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 4: batter when when decisions get devolved down to the individual 304 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 4: or as close to the individual as top that's it, yeah, 305 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 4: not utopia, but you know, so for instance, like I'm 306 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 4: not against a social safety net. But I think rather 307 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 4: than having food stamps, you know, where the government gives 308 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 4: you a plastic card and said you can buy you know, 309 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 4: you can buy whole milk, but not skim milk or 310 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 4: something like that. You know, it should just be for 311 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 4: a small number of people who need help. Give them 312 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 4: cash grants and trust them and give them the autonomy 313 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 4: to make decisions with that. 314 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: You know, and if you you could just see where 315 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: the problem is going to happen, right you know, it's 316 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: not going to stay small, It's going to grow. 317 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 2: It's like that, this is where the issues all come up. 318 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is also part of it, though, is 319 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 4: you know, if we become you know, more cognizant of 320 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 4: the problems. You know, right now, I used to write 321 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 4: a lot about this, but about old age entitlements and 322 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 4: you know, things like Social Security and medicare. At the 323 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 4: federal level, that is what's driving federal spend, which keeps 324 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 4: going up and up. You know, when Bill Clinton left office, 325 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 4: his final budget was about two trillion dollars. We are 326 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 4: now spending over six trillion dollars and it's never going 327 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 4: to come down again, you know, we don't we don't 328 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 4: need to have tripled you know, spending over the past 329 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 4: twenty years, right, and it's gone up under Republicans and Democrats, 330 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 4: et cetera. But when you realize it's old age entitlements, 331 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 4: we need to start holding you know, holding ourselves accountable. 332 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 4: Where when Social Security and Medicare were passed, and Social 333 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 4: Security was passed in nineteen thirty five, nobody retired. Basically 334 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 4: you died at sixty five, which was the age you 335 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 4: could you know, take it, and it has expanded vastly. 336 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 4: Older people are wealthy. Now, we can't have the same 337 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 4: kind of policy that just gives people money regardless of 338 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 4: you know, because of age. Medicare was passed in sixty six, 339 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 4: you know, immediately started outstripping its cost estimates and things 340 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 4: like that. And it's like, you know, if you're wealthy 341 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 4: in America, you should be paying your own way. And 342 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 4: then we should agree that there's a small portion of 343 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 4: people who need temporary help and sometimes long term helping 344 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 4: if they're not capable of taking care of themselves, and 345 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 4: the government can do that, but it should be you know, 346 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 4: ten percent of what we're spending now, rather than sending 347 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 4: out most stuff to middle class and upper middle class 348 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 4: people under the guise of helping poor people. You know, 349 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 4: we need to be more honest and realistic about where 350 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 4: government spending is going. And it's almost never to help 351 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 4: the poor. 352 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: But that's the demographic that boats. You're never going to 353 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: be pregnant with this attitude. 354 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 4: I know, I know, but well, you know what I 355 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 4: this is one of my dreams is to do kind 356 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,959 Speaker 4: of like you know, go back to by interest in 357 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 4: literature and art. I almost want to do like an 358 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 4: art project where I find wealthy you know, when you 359 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 4: turn sixty five, you have to enroll in Medicare, otherwise 360 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 4: breaking the. 361 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 2: Law bill game. 362 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 4: I want to find it. I want to find wealthy 363 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 4: seniors who refuse to sign up for Medicare and and 364 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 4: ask the government to put them in jail. Like run 365 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 4: a kind of nonviolent resistance campaign against Medicare from people 366 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 4: who don't need it, people who can afford to pay 367 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 4: for their healthcare and retirement, and let's force this issue. 368 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 4: I wish young people are freaking out over climate change, 369 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 4: and you know, I think there's no question that human 370 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 4: activity affects the climate, you know, affects the environment. We're 371 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 4: going to do fine living with fluctuations and temperature. We're 372 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 4: so good at innovating, you know, we have places like 373 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 4: you know, the Netherlands and whatnot, Like we we know 374 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 4: how to deal with climate change. Right. What young people 375 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 4: really need to get exercised about is the fact that 376 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 4: you know, they are there, we're taking money from them 377 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 4: every paycheck. They are relatively poor, and we're giving it 378 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 4: to relatively wealthy old people. Like that's where generational outrage 379 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 4: should be. And you know, I would love to see like, 380 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 4: you know, you know, content class warfare. 381 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 2: Nike is starting age warfare. 382 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 4: Generational generational generational warfare, and you know, and I'm willing 383 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 4: to be the quizzling of old people. You know, I'll 384 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 4: be medicare age in five years, so like, let's do this. 385 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 4: You know. 386 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: So I normally ask, what do you think is our 387 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: largest cultural or societal problem? 388 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 4: Is this? It? No, I do what I think it is. 389 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 4: I think it's much bigger than that, and it's ironically 390 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 4: it is a result of how much better the world 391 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 4: is now. The biggest problem facing us is that we 392 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 4: live in a world of massive existential angst. And we 393 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 4: see this as a problem. It's actually the result of 394 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 4: having created an economy, particularly in America, but throughout Europe 395 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 4: and increasingly throughout the world where people no longer you know, 396 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,239 Speaker 4: when you are struggling merely to get ahead or to 397 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 4: give your children opportunities you didn't have, your focus is different. 398 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 4: We now live in a world where almost everybody has 399 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 4: the ability to kind of create the world that they 400 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 4: want to live in. That you know, everybody can dream 401 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 4: now in a way that when you know, my parents 402 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 4: were born in the twenties, they were the children of immigrants. 403 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 4: They grew up in immigrant ghettos. My father was born 404 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 4: in Hell's Kitchen, grew up in Manhattan and Brooklyn, very poor, 405 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 4: fought in World War two, never expected, you know, to 406 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 4: have extra money. My mother, who was an Italian, the 407 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 4: daughter of Italian immigrants, was similar. And you know, when 408 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 4: I look at what my kids are living in, like 409 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,239 Speaker 4: everything is in front of you and that that is 410 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 4: we are not equipped for that. 411 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 2: We have to. 412 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 4: Be given the shot at like living the life that 413 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 4: you imagine and you dream. And I think that that's 414 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 4: actually why people are going so crazy now about all 415 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 4: sorts of bizarre culture war issues like. 416 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 2: Too many options or what. 417 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 4: What is we have so many options, and it's like, okay, 418 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 4: here's you know, I you know, Easter h Eastern you know, 419 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 4: just was just and I think a lot. There was 420 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 4: a novel by par Lagervis, who was a Swedish Nobel 421 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 4: Prize winning author in the early fifties, called Barrabas, and 422 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 4: it's what he does is he follows the story of Barabbas, 423 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 4: the thief who's ransomed in place of Jesus, you know, 424 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 4: my punctious pilot. The crowd says, let Barabas, who's a 425 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,719 Speaker 4: killer and a rapist and a thief, go free, and 426 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 4: we want you to CHRISTI fight Jesus instead. And this 427 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 4: book follows Barabis, you know, on he suddenly he was 428 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 4: condemned to death and then suddenly he's given a free 429 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 4: life where he can do whatever he wants, and it 430 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 4: follows his journey. Very it's a great book. It's really 431 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 4: wonderful and it speaks you know, it's a Christian existentialist novel, 432 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 4: but it really speaks to our current predicament, if we 433 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 4: want to call it that, where it's like we have 434 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 4: been given, you know, unbelievable freedom and opportunity in the US, 435 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 4: in Europe, in more and more parts of the world 436 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 4: where more than half of the people on the planet now, 437 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 4: according to the UN and to the Brookingstitution, live at 438 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 4: a middle class or higher lifestyle. We can dream and 439 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 4: we can work towards accomplishing our goals. And that is 440 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 4: terrified to a lot of people, you know, because. 441 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 2: It's like I could it sounds so optimistic. 442 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 4: Well, it's very optimistic. But you have to take responsibility, 443 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 4: and you have to work, and you have and also 444 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 4: you have to realize, like you know, and I think 445 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 4: about this with myself, what I wanted at thirty or 446 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 4: twenty five is not what I want now. And how 447 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 4: do you continue to grow? How do you continue to 448 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 4: take responsibility for your life and help build the community 449 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 4: you want. That's an awesome task, and I think we 450 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 4: have not, you know, we haven't educated ourselves as a 451 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 4: society to to kind of create people who can flourish 452 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 4: in that. There's a lot of people who are terrified 453 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 4: of freedom in a lot of ways. In the you know, 454 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 4: in the sixties, there were oftentimes on the left, there 455 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 4: were people like Eric from who you know, wrote a 456 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 4: book called Escape from Freedom. But as people became you know, 457 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 4: as things loosened up, and you could do you could 458 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 4: live the life that you dream. A lot of people 459 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 4: are terrified by that, and that's actually what I think 460 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 4: is going on now. People want to control other people 461 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 4: rather than live their lives the way they want to. 462 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 4: There's that to me is the biggest top so interesting. 463 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 2: I really never thought about that concept. 464 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: Like, just because things are so good and we have 465 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: so much freedom and so much space to do whatever 466 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: you want, it causes existential angst because, yeah, we're so 467 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: used to being sort of funneled into what we're supposed 468 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: to be doing, and when you have all the options, 469 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: that does make it more complicated. It's just like choosing 470 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: between all the many things. 471 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 2: You can be. 472 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 4: It's hard. It's hard, you know, And it's like that's 473 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 4: what I think, that's what education should be about. I 474 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 4: think that's in a lot of ways what community, uh, 475 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,640 Speaker 4: you know, religion changes all the time and things like that. 476 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 4: But it's like, you know, you know, we need to 477 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 4: adapt to a world in which much more is possible 478 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 4: than that of our parents or grandparents or anything like that, 479 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 4: and that requires you know, letting people have more options 480 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 4: and more autonomy and then you know. 481 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 2: Also making more mistakes. 482 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, We're going to take a quick break and 483 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: be right back on the Carol Marcowitz Show. 484 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: Do you feel like you've made it? 485 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 4: No? No, I you know, way to go. Yeah, I 486 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 4: mean I certainly have not achieved what I want to 487 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 4: in life. I'm happy, you know. I I uh inherited 488 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 4: from my parents and people around me a heart, like 489 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 4: a big worth work ethic, you know where I you know, 490 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 4: I get up every morning and I want to accomplish 491 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 4: a bunch of things. I am a big fan of 492 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 4: kind of practice and iteration. You know, writing is certainly 493 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 4: an iterative process. Like you you know, you have to 494 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 4: keep doing it. That's true of journalism in general, and 495 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 4: I think it's true of almost everything. So I'm you know, 496 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 4: I'm happy, relatively speaking. I'm getting married and for the 497 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 4: second time, for the last time, I should say, And 498 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 4: you know, I have two children whom I love. I 499 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 4: had a great relationship and a great marriage with my 500 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 4: first wife. I've achieved a fair degree of professional success, 501 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 4: and I'm happy about that. But I don't take any 502 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 4: of it for granted, and it doesn't slow me down 503 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 4: from like, okay, well what you know, that's all you know, 504 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 4: you don't want to sit on that. You want to 505 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 4: figure out what do you do next and what is interesting, 506 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 4: what's exciting. So I don't really feel like I've made 507 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 4: it whatever. 508 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: That all right, Well, looking forward to seeing where you 509 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: go then, because I feel like, you know, that's that's 510 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: a good answer. You still have a lot to do. 511 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: I love talking to you. This is really great. And 512 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 1: here with your best tip for my listeners on how 513 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: they can improve their lives. 514 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 4: Oh, I think you know the you know Stuart Brand, 515 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 4: the guy who founded the Whole Earth catalog. He said 516 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 4: the line stay hung grace, stay foolish, which Steve Jobs 517 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 4: use that a famous college commencement addressed and I think 518 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 4: thinking like that, Stuart Brand is a fascinating character. But 519 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 4: you know, the important thing is to remain open and 520 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 4: honest with yourself, you know, and continue to develop new 521 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 4: interests and new ideas, and to look at the future 522 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 4: not as dangerous or scary, but it's you know, it's different. 523 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 4: It's going to be challenging, but it's like God, the 524 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 4: you know, I the only thing I envy about my 525 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 4: children is the fact that they're going to live longer 526 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 4: and longer. And I want to be in that future 527 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 4: because I am a long term optimist and even kind 528 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 4: of a middle term optimist, and you know, there are 529 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 4: a lot of things to be concerned about in the 530 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 4: world today. But it's like, you know, I know that 531 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,479 Speaker 4: I live in a world that was much better than 532 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 4: the one my parents were born in. And I know, 533 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 4: I you know, the world is better than the one 534 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 4: I was born in in nineteen sixty three, and I 535 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 4: would love to see you know what, I don't know 536 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 4: twenty one, twenty four is going to look like there's 537 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 4: something like that. So getting better, keep looking forward and 538 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 4: keep moving. 539 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Thank you so much, Nick, This is really great. 540 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on. Thank you, thanks so much for 541 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: joining us on the Carol Marco Witch Show. Subscribe wherever 542 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.