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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, y'all, we have a bit of a two

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Speaker 1: for for you today in honor of the great Stevie Wonder.

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Speaker 1: We'll be hearing from Robert margoliv later in the show.

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Speaker 1: He along with his partner Malcolm Cecil, were responsible for

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Speaker 1: engineering for Stevie's records from his classic seventies run and

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Speaker 1: introduced Stevie to the Tanto synthesizer. But more on that later.

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Speaker 1: First up, a quick chat with critic extraordinaire Wesley Morris.

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Speaker 1: Wesley is a two time Politzer winner, once for his

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Speaker 1: work with The Boston Globe, then just a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago for his phenomenal writing with The New York Times.

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Speaker 1: His latest project is an Audible original about Stevie called

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Speaker 1: The Wonder of Stevie. It's a great look into Stevie's

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Speaker 1: vaunted seventies output that culminates with an insane conversation between Wesley,

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Speaker 1: Stevie himself, and President Obama. Let's hear my brief conversation

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Speaker 1: with Wesley about this project. Please be sure to check

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Speaker 1: it out, The Wonder of Stevie on Audible. Great job

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Speaker 1: to tell you.

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Speaker 2: That you must know, well, we're all really proud of it.

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Speaker 2: We're all really proud of it, and you just never know.

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Speaker 2: You make a thing and it's not on it once it,

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Speaker 2: once it leaves, once it goes out into the world,

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Speaker 2: it's not yours anymore to everybody else's.

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Speaker 1: So what was the genesis of the project? How did

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Speaker 1: the whole thing come together?

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Speaker 2: Well, it was the idea of a woman named Anna

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Speaker 2: Holmes who wanted to think about the meaning of these albums.

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Speaker 2: And she came to me with this idea and I said, Anna,

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Speaker 2: you're really smart, you have a lot of passion.

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Speaker 1: You should host this show.

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Speaker 2: And she said, the reason I'm telling you about this

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Speaker 2: show is because I think you should host it. And

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Speaker 2: the the way I understood the show initially was that

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Speaker 2: I would be in some conversation with Stevie wonder about

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Speaker 2: the streak in these albums. And then the other thing

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Speaker 2: I thought would happen was that I would be in

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Speaker 2: conversation with like a Questlove about these albums and that

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Speaker 2: would be it, and it would take a month to do,

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Speaker 2: and we'd have a cute little thing out into the

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Speaker 2: world and everybody will listen to it in loven and

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Speaker 2: that would be it. But that is definitely not what happened.

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Speaker 2: What happened was I went to Stevie Wonder University and

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Speaker 2: took all my love of these albums, and it's turned

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Speaker 2: my feelings into knowledge, turned all of my enthusiasm and

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Speaker 2: passion and feelings into a form of scholarship. But there

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Speaker 2: are lots and lots of really smart Stevie scholars out there,

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Speaker 2: actual academics, professors, musicologists, music theorists. And then there's me.

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Speaker 2: I'm a critic, and I have my own set of

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Speaker 2: tools by which to I mean, think through articular late

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Speaker 2: what this album, what these albums, what this man his

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Speaker 2: his ingenuity, what it all means. And we spent a

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Speaker 2: few years realizing, you know what we all what I

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Speaker 2: the folks at Higher Ground and the folks at Pineapple,

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Speaker 2: the production team brought to the telling of this story

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Speaker 2: and the thinking through these albums as cultural monuments.

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Speaker 1: How much did you know about these records going into

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Speaker 1: it versus how much? Like how much did you learn

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Speaker 1: through the process of making this? Uh?

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Speaker 2: How much did I know?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 2: I mean I had listened before we began production, and

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Speaker 2: when I was hemming in a hang about whether I

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Speaker 2: could do it, whether I was the right person to

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Speaker 2: do it. I had listened to all I've listened to

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Speaker 2: all the albums a lot, and I had, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think the thing that changed for me through the

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Speaker 2: making of the album was I didn't know a lot

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Speaker 2: about Stevie Wonder. I didn't know a lot about his life.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know a lot about the Motown years. I

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Speaker 2: mean I knew all of these things. I could answer

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Speaker 2: questions on Trivia Night, if you know what I mean

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Speaker 2: about what years, what titles, things like, you know, tidbits, factoids,

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Speaker 2: certain biographical moments, but being immersed in the making, I

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Speaker 2: didn't know anything about Bob Margoleff and Malcolm Cecil. I

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Speaker 2: didn't know anything about those guys. I didn't know about Tanto,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know.

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Speaker 1: What did What did you make of Robert Margalov? I

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Speaker 1: mean he's caring around a lot.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I make a show, I used

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Speaker 2: to make a show. I still make a show with

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Speaker 2: another person, and just thinking a lot about yeah, still

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Speaker 2: processing with Jay Wortham, and just thinking a lot about

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Speaker 2: what it is to be in constant collaboration with another person.

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Speaker 2: It can become a little bit like a marriage. And

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Speaker 2: you I mean, it's not like a marriage. It's a marriage,

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Speaker 2: and you know, depending on how things go in the relationship,

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Speaker 2: when a person, when someone like Stevie makes a change, Uh,

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Speaker 2: and I don't I mean, I'm gonna use the framework

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Speaker 2: of marriage and divorce basically in some form or another

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Speaker 2: or another says I'd like a divorce. Although that is

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Speaker 2: not what Stevie did to Bob and Malcolm, which is

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Speaker 2: partially why Bob has the feelings he has. He didn't articulate,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't remember that conversation as being Bob

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Speaker 2: being salty. Bob just had a lot of clarifications to

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Speaker 2: make right and to like make sure it was clear.

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Speaker 1: To us.

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Speaker 2: The degree of the collaboration without you know, he's not

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Speaker 2: so presumptuous as to like claim ownership or anything. But

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean, anytime you make something with somebody,

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Speaker 2: the question around whose is what or what is who's

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Speaker 2: get really muddy. And everybody who's worked with Stevie has

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Speaker 2: a different relationship to what their role is in the

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Speaker 2: collaboration and the creative process. And you know, Bob understands

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Speaker 2: that his relationship with Malcolm and Stevie was critical for

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Speaker 2: the albums they worked on together. And you know, their

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Speaker 2: breakup is still with him in some way, and I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, he doesn't think songs Nikuel Life is a

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Speaker 2: very good album compared to the ones they made together. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that just sounds like divorce talking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, and to continue with that sort

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Speaker 1: of metaphor in terms of their partnership, it's like the

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Speaker 1: divorce wasn't so formal as to allow for the normal

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Speaker 1: sort of maybe grieving process. Feel like there's a lot

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Speaker 1: unresolved there because of the way in which their relationship dissolved,

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Speaker 1: you know, with there not being much paperwork accounting for

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Speaker 1: much of assist.

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Speaker 2: But they say nobody's signed anything.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy, you know, it's kind of wild. I learned

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Speaker 1: a lot talking to Robert and listening to the Wonder

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Speaker 1: of Stevie, because I mean, to your point, I knew

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Speaker 1: all the albums, I knew all the stuff before this,

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Speaker 1: I knew the dates, I knew some of the players

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Speaker 1: on the records. But you know, Stevie, it seems like

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Speaker 1: by design hasn't put a ton out about himself. You know,

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Speaker 1: there hasn't been the Keith Richard style biography that he

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Speaker 1: rightly deserves. There hasn't even been like a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: they haven't working on one, but oh he's working on them.

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Speaker 1: Is that true? I'm he had been. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I know the person who was working on it with him,

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Speaker 2: I don't I need to get a status update from

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Speaker 2: that person, very prominent person.

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Speaker 1: Maybe better to say out of it was like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying I don't know, but I think that

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Speaker 2: he is somebody who, like a lot of our great

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Speaker 2: black musicians, you know, great black people. You know, look

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Speaker 2: at the Harlem Renaissance. How many of those people have

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Speaker 2: biographies written about them. And we're talking about a person,

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Speaker 2: you know, who's still alive and has sort of been

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Speaker 2: under under examined.

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Speaker 1: There are several books about.

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Speaker 2: Him, mostly written from the standpoint of musicology. But what

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Speaker 2: is it about this man and his relationship to music

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Speaker 2: that is just so innovative and pleasing and boundary combining

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Speaker 2: es Yeah, because a lot of what we did was

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Speaker 2: kind of cobbling together his life from different sources. And

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Speaker 2: you know, I also think that in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 2: when you become one of the rushmore objects, right, like

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Speaker 2: a person who will live on in the form of

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Speaker 2: statuary in one way or another, I think that those

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Speaker 2: people sort of don't know what is true about their

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Speaker 2: lives anymore. So I mean it really is up to

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Speaker 2: journalism and criticism to kind of make sense of it.

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Speaker 2: But I also think that Stevie telling his own story

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Speaker 2: in his own words is something that someone like it

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Speaker 2: needs to happen as well. You know, I think about like,

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Speaker 2: there are a couple of really great books about Sammy Davis Junior,

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Speaker 2: but the two autobiographies that he wrote those are also fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you know, you say that you've made it

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Speaker 1: without Stevie, and it's obviously true. But even at talking

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Speaker 1: to you, I forgot that you didn't make it with him,

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Speaker 1: because he just somehow Stevie is ever present through the

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Speaker 1: whole thing, which I means, I don't know. It's like

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Speaker 1: what an accomplishment is over it makes it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's not a cold calculated analysis at all. The joy

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Speaker 1: of the albums, the joy of Steve, I mean, it's all.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just the way that you structured it,

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Speaker 1: wrote it, voiced it, produced it, and everyone else at

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Speaker 1: Pineapple and Higher Ground. I mean, it's just like phenomenal job,

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Speaker 1: so so good, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 2: It was a real It was an honor and a pleasure,

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Speaker 2: like deeply, deeply rewarding to spend that much time thinking

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Speaker 2: about this man and what he made, and to like

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Speaker 2: experience that with you know, the Pineapple folks and the

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Speaker 2: higher Ground folks and also the people who made the music, right,

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Speaker 2: like to look at to be able to look at

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Speaker 2: Greg filling Gains's face, remembering what it was like to

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Speaker 2: like outplay Stevie on something.

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Speaker 1: When you got contusion bit where you have Greg filling

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Speaker 1: Gains in front of you and he's talking about how

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Speaker 1: Stevie couldn't play the line on Contusions and he just

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Speaker 1: is like, I can do it, you know, and Stevie

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Speaker 1: just puts him into captaincy and he just nails it.

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Speaker 1: And then it's just the.

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Speaker 2: Kids by the way, right, Like, you know, Stevie's in

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Speaker 2: his seventies now, but when this music was being made,

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Speaker 2: he was a kid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, this is.

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Speaker 2: A twenty one to twenty six year old, barely twenty

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Speaker 2: six year old making this music. Think about that, this

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Speaker 2: is a kid.

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Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. Well, Wesley, thanks so much for making it.

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Speaker 2: You.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I can't, I can't, I can't say

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Speaker 1: enough good things about the project. It's incredible.

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Speaker 2: Oh thank you, I really appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: Next up is a conversation with the pioneering electronic music

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Speaker 1: producer and engineer Robert Margolev. In sixty eight, together with

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Speaker 1: Malcolm Cecil, Robert built the largest analog synthesizer in the world,

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Speaker 1: a be myth called Tonto. Two years later, the duo

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Speaker 1: released Zero Time that made waves in the experimental music

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Speaker 1: world and caught the attention of one Stevie Wonder, who

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Speaker 1: at the time was in transition and maybe even leaving Motown.

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Speaker 1: Over the next four years, Stevie worked closely with Robert

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Speaker 1: Cecil and Tonto to record a string of albums known

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Speaker 1: as Stevie's classic period Music of my Mind, Talking Book Intervisions,

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Speaker 1: and Fulfillinginess's first Finale. On today's episode, I talked to

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Speaker 1: Robert Margolev about Stevie's creative process in the studio during

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Speaker 1: this time. Robert also recalls the way in which Stevie

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Speaker 1: changed after surviving a near fatal car accident in seventy three,

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Speaker 1: and how Robert Cecil, Stevie and Tonto brought new life

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Speaker 1: to Hendrix's famed electric Lady Studio in New York, just

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Speaker 1: a year after Jimmy died. This is broken record liner

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Speaker 1: notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's my

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Speaker 1: conversation with Robert Margolev. Where in New York were you

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Speaker 1: born and raised?

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Speaker 3: I was born and raised in a place called Great Neck,

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Speaker 3: New York. I used to happily called it the Gilded Ghetto.

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Speaker 3: It was very, very Jewish at that time. Now it's

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Speaker 3: Aranian and Chinese.

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Speaker 1: Is it Long Island? Great Long Island?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Or you have to say Long Island, Long Island.

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Speaker 3: You can have a glass of water. I grew up

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Speaker 3: on Long Island until I was in tenth grade, and

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Speaker 3: then I had the great fortune of going to his school,

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Speaker 3: and a private school in Massachusetts called the Stockbridge School.

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Speaker 3: Arlo Guthrie went there afterwards. But it was a very

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Speaker 3: small school. They have to understand now. I graduated nineteen

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Speaker 3: fifty seven. I think that was before you were born. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 3: it was a very interesting time. The school was run

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Speaker 3: by a guy named Hans Mater, who was really an

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Speaker 3: experimental educator. Born in Germany, had very hard time with

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Speaker 3: his father, who was a Nazi basically, and Hans had

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Speaker 3: to leave the country and he got interned in Hawaii

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Speaker 3: during the war. He was a progressive educator, and in

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Speaker 3: the hallway of the school building was a sign that says,

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Speaker 3: all human beings are born free and equal in dignity

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Speaker 3: and rights. And that otto is something that I've lived

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Speaker 3: with all my life. It's really sort of might change

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Speaker 3: my thinking about humanism, about equality, and about all those

240
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Speaker 3: kinds of things that were going on around the time

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Speaker 3: of nineteen fifty seven. Worse, my senior year. Nineteen fifty

242
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Speaker 3: seven was when President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act,

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Speaker 3: and there were kids that were being escorted, little girls

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Speaker 3: being black, little girls being escorted to school in the

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Speaker 3: South by armed marshals. Right, and was very passioned and

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Speaker 3: very racial, and very heavy, heavily racial, and Stockbridge was international, interracial,

247
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Speaker 3: and also was really round upon and pup the private

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Speaker 3: schools at that time. The reason I talk about it

249
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Speaker 3: now is because I'm ten years older than Stevie Wonder. Okay,

250
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Speaker 3: So what Stevie came on the scene for us in

251
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Speaker 3: the seventy two, I'd already been down the road of

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Speaker 3: civil rights, Okay. I already was Abernathy and Martin Luther

253
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Speaker 3: King and was already in my head, and I already

254
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Speaker 3: had been trained in this kind of humanist tradition. And

255
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Speaker 3: when Stevie came on board, when we started working on

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Speaker 3: songs like Living for the City, I knew right then

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Speaker 3: that he and I really we might have traveled different

258
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Speaker 3: roads to the same place. You know. It was it

259
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Speaker 3: was that close, that kind of intensity about race relations.

260
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Speaker 3: And also it was a time when the music business

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Speaker 3: was also undergoing a kind of interesting change. You know,

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Speaker 3: you call it R and B. I call it the

263
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Speaker 3: Blues and the Jews. Okay, it was a very different

264
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Speaker 3: environment in the East Coast in New York, the brill Building,

265
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Speaker 3: a lot of Jewish songwriters working with motown artists, a

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Speaker 3: lot of independent black labels coming up. The major labels

267
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Speaker 3: really weren't in the late fifties and early sixties, really

268
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Speaker 3: weren't that interested in signing black artists. Black music was

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Speaker 3: called race music, right, and the big labels didn't want

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Speaker 3: to touch it. So the bunch of Jewish guys all over,

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Speaker 3: you know, really could relate to it. Strangely enough, although

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Speaker 3: it's not really leaned upon, but Jewish music during that time,

273
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Speaker 3: a lot of Eastern European guys right with Klesmer music right, Okay,

274
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Speaker 3: it was melismatic, just as melismatic as black singing when

275
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Speaker 3: they sing a thousand notes around one bar. It was improvised,

276
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Speaker 3: A lot of it was. And also a lot of

277
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Speaker 3: the Eastern Europeans were a lot of the major classical

278
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Speaker 3: players around that time, Heipitz and all these Eastern If

279
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Speaker 3: you wanted a great violin player, you had to find

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Speaker 3: a Russian, right. It was a sort of a different vibe,

281
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Speaker 3: and the majors in this country weren't interested in recording

282
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Speaker 3: race music. It wasn't until Jerry Wexler, who was a

283
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Speaker 3: producer early on at Atlantic, came up with a new

284
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Speaker 3: name for it, and it was called Rhythm and Blues.

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Speaker 1: Did Jerry Wexler came up with that on rhythm and Blues? Yes,

286
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Speaker 1: I didn't know that.

287
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Speaker 3: So they came up with a new name, right, And

288
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Speaker 3: now all of a sudden that became interesting. But by

289
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Speaker 3: the time Stevie showed up on the scene, the record

290
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Speaker 3: business was at a place where the black businessmen were

291
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Speaker 3: beginning to start to form black labels. So that's when

292
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Speaker 3: motown really started to flower in Detroit, and they became

293
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Speaker 3: very protective of their own music. It wasn't for a

294
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Speaker 3: while until the big majors started to absorb Motown and

295
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Speaker 3: all the other black labels began to be signed to

296
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Speaker 3: Atlantic or to CBS or now we only have three

297
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Speaker 3: record companies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, everything, even Atlantic pretty quickly gets merged in

299
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Speaker 1: with Warner.

300
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and all that stuff. So it's turned into another animal.

301
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Speaker 3: But during our time with Steve in New York, it

302
00:18:44,436 --> 00:18:47,156
Speaker 3: was just at the beginning of that kind of vibe.

303
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Speaker 1: Were you tracking music throughout the sixties?

304
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Speaker 3: No. I got out of college. I left early because

305
00:18:53,276 --> 00:18:56,556
Speaker 3: I hated it. It was Vietnam War, and I realized

306
00:18:56,596 --> 00:19:00,396
Speaker 3: that if I wanted to stay alive, I had to

307
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Speaker 3: do something other than being an average student in the

308
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Speaker 3: theater department at lu Okay.

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Speaker 1: So that wasn't going to be good enough excuse.

310
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was not a good enough excuse. And also

311
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Speaker 3: I really wasn't that happy with it. I didn't see where.

312
00:19:15,956 --> 00:19:19,356
Speaker 3: I was studying sociology and stuff, and finally, by accident,

313
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Speaker 3: fell into the theater department and I tried the acting

314
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Speaker 3: part of it. I acted in a play called The

315
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Speaker 3: Violent Eruption of the Volcano Krakatoa, and I came on

316
00:19:30,676 --> 00:19:33,556
Speaker 3: the stage holding a model ship and an admiral's hat

317
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Speaker 3: from the eighteen hundreds, and I felt like an ice

318
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Speaker 3: cream cone, melting ice cream cone. And I came to

319
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Speaker 3: the conclusion after that it was the second lesson that

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Speaker 3: I'm fine to sing in the choir. Okay, I was

321
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Speaker 3: before that. I was a chorus professional chorister the New

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Speaker 3: York Philharmonic. I sang in the Scolacantorum, the orchestra of

323
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Speaker 3: the New York Philharmonic. I studied at Tanglewood a couple

324
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Speaker 3: of summers, then sang you know, with the Skull under

325
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Speaker 3: the baton of Leonard Bernstein. And I was really fine

326
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Speaker 3: in the choir. But when I started going to music

327
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Speaker 3: school after LU for about a year to Manhattan, I

328
00:20:13,996 --> 00:20:17,276
Speaker 3: realized that I was not going to be an opera singer.

329
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Speaker 3: I didn't have the voice for it. I could memoryate

330
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Speaker 3: somebody off the stage in shadow of Styrophoam cup at

331
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Speaker 3: ten paces, and I knew that I would never want

332
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Speaker 3: to stand as a solo, as a tenor in front

333
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Speaker 3: of an audience of a thousand people. Right, And then

334
00:20:33,716 --> 00:20:37,356
Speaker 3: I learned again at LU being the melting ice cream

335
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Speaker 3: cone on stage. I had to be the man behind

336
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Speaker 3: the curtain.

337
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Speaker 1: So then what did you pivot to?

338
00:20:42,836 --> 00:20:45,996
Speaker 3: I pivoted to studying music, and then I pivoted to

339
00:20:46,076 --> 00:20:51,916
Speaker 3: the US Army, and I became enamored with my other love,

340
00:20:51,996 --> 00:20:54,596
Speaker 3: which is photography. And you can see all my work

341
00:20:54,636 --> 00:20:58,316
Speaker 3: around the room, and I said, I'm going to study

342
00:20:58,516 --> 00:21:03,036
Speaker 3: photography because that's really where I want to go. So

343
00:21:03,876 --> 00:21:06,476
Speaker 3: I signed up and they sent me to Motion Picture

344
00:21:06,596 --> 00:21:10,836
Speaker 3: Combat Photographer school that I was stationed in Germany for

345
00:21:10,876 --> 00:21:13,556
Speaker 3: about two years. I ended up doing a lot of

346
00:21:13,556 --> 00:21:19,236
Speaker 3: still photography, you know, basically general shaking hands, and I

347
00:21:19,276 --> 00:21:22,316
Speaker 3: did a little stuff on the helicopter looking down at

348
00:21:22,316 --> 00:21:26,116
Speaker 3: tire prints. I was stationed in Stuttgart and stuff.

349
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Speaker 1: Was any of it reconnaissance photography.

350
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Speaker 3: Yeah, reconnaissance photography. It's just general photography. But I really

351
00:21:34,556 --> 00:21:38,076
Speaker 3: fell in love there in Stuttgart with the ballet company.

352
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Speaker 3: And it was before don't ask, don't tell, but I

353
00:21:42,076 --> 00:21:46,196
Speaker 3: was not asked and I didn't tell, but I eventually telled,

354
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Speaker 3: and I found my way back to the United States

355
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Speaker 3: a shortened tour.

356
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Speaker 1: Oh they did they get you out?

357
00:21:54,556 --> 00:21:57,836
Speaker 3: Yeah? I finally told them. I said, listen, I'm a

358
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Speaker 3: ballet photographer by night and a combat photographer by day,

359
00:22:02,276 --> 00:22:05,476
Speaker 3: and I was really starting to have some really issues

360
00:22:05,516 --> 00:22:09,756
Speaker 3: with that. And I suddenly found my self living in

361
00:22:09,796 --> 00:22:15,396
Speaker 3: the East Village and got into making filmmaking, and I

362
00:22:15,436 --> 00:22:19,356
Speaker 3: produced and put together a film called Chaal Manhattan with

363
00:22:19,596 --> 00:22:25,436
Speaker 3: Edie Sedgwick, with Edie Sedgwick and all the refugees from

364
00:22:25,516 --> 00:22:29,116
Speaker 3: the factory for May's Place in Maxis, Kansas City, and

365
00:22:29,436 --> 00:22:33,036
Speaker 3: Ellen Stewart and Obama and the Temple of Rock and

366
00:22:33,156 --> 00:22:37,156
Speaker 3: Roll in Phillmore East and Bill Graham and all those

367
00:22:37,236 --> 00:22:39,996
Speaker 3: people and the big cloud of pot smoke, and well, were.

368
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Speaker 1: You shocked by that scene that was happening in the

369
00:22:42,436 --> 00:22:43,036
Speaker 1: at all?

370
00:22:43,156 --> 00:22:45,036
Speaker 3: No, No, I felt right at home.

371
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Speaker 1: Was it a surprise that it existed?

372
00:22:48,436 --> 00:22:51,676
Speaker 3: It was an interesting existence because within the space around

373
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Speaker 3: my loft apartment, which I had on the fifth floor

374
00:22:54,716 --> 00:22:58,436
Speaker 3: of a tenement, around literally around the corner from the Fillmore,

375
00:22:59,156 --> 00:23:01,756
Speaker 3: the place became sort of a salon for all people

376
00:23:01,756 --> 00:23:05,156
Speaker 3: but hanging out from everyone from Tom O'Horgan, who went

377
00:23:05,196 --> 00:23:10,076
Speaker 3: on to direct Hair on Broadway with Hellen's Blessed, and

378
00:23:10,116 --> 00:23:15,036
Speaker 3: the Fillmore and Bill Graham and all his people and

379
00:23:15,356 --> 00:23:18,796
Speaker 3: people from the factory, and everyone ended up in my flat,

380
00:23:18,876 --> 00:23:21,756
Speaker 3: which was a five room railroad flat on the fifth

381
00:23:21,756 --> 00:23:26,596
Speaker 3: floor between Second and Third Avenue, and I felt totally

382
00:23:26,676 --> 00:23:29,356
Speaker 3: at home. I loved going to Max's at night. I

383
00:23:29,396 --> 00:23:33,116
Speaker 3: knew Mickey Ruskin, the guy who ran the place and

384
00:23:33,156 --> 00:23:36,716
Speaker 3: who originated it. And I had a table and Andy

385
00:23:36,796 --> 00:23:40,156
Speaker 3: had a table, and we used to back and forth

386
00:23:40,236 --> 00:23:44,756
Speaker 3: to each other, you know, and it was an interesting time.

387
00:23:44,796 --> 00:23:47,916
Speaker 3: It was very druggy. There was this guy we used

388
00:23:47,916 --> 00:23:51,116
Speaker 3: to call him doctor Robert in Chow Manhattan. I'm not

389
00:23:51,156 --> 00:23:53,716
Speaker 3: going to mention his real name, but he was poking

390
00:23:53,836 --> 00:23:57,756
Speaker 3: up everybody from Hare to President Kennedy to everyone with

391
00:23:57,876 --> 00:24:00,676
Speaker 3: his famous vitamin shots and every.

392
00:24:00,436 --> 00:24:01,836
Speaker 1: Shots that Kennedy was getting.

393
00:24:02,116 --> 00:24:07,196
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it was kind of weird and strange, and

394
00:24:07,396 --> 00:24:10,316
Speaker 3: I kind of took it all to be kind of

395
00:24:10,316 --> 00:24:13,796
Speaker 3: a normal thing. Wow. But the reason I even speak

396
00:24:13,836 --> 00:24:16,836
Speaker 3: about this, Edie lived in my apartment for about six

397
00:24:17,356 --> 00:24:21,636
Speaker 3: or seven months with me, not romantically, but she set

398
00:24:21,636 --> 00:24:24,476
Speaker 3: her room on fire at the Chelsea and that no

399
00:24:24,516 --> 00:24:28,236
Speaker 3: one would take her phone calls after that. So, and

400
00:24:28,316 --> 00:24:30,396
Speaker 3: she looked like a cute tip. Both of her hands

401
00:24:30,436 --> 00:24:33,996
Speaker 3: were bandaged from the fire because she grabbed a doorknob,

402
00:24:34,036 --> 00:24:38,996
Speaker 3: which was scolding toasty. My father was in the fur business.

403
00:24:39,036 --> 00:24:42,076
Speaker 3: We were shooting chow, and my father gave her a

404
00:24:42,076 --> 00:24:44,396
Speaker 3: whole bunch of her coats to wear, and they were

405
00:24:44,436 --> 00:24:45,716
Speaker 3: all trashed in the fire.

406
00:24:46,276 --> 00:24:46,516
Speaker 1: Wow.

407
00:24:46,716 --> 00:24:50,916
Speaker 3: So she had no place to live. So I had

408
00:24:50,956 --> 00:24:53,796
Speaker 3: a friend to look after me and what was going

409
00:24:53,876 --> 00:24:57,396
Speaker 3: on and stuff. And he would fwawn over her and

410
00:24:57,436 --> 00:25:01,556
Speaker 3: feed her and go to Maxis for my milkshakes at

411
00:25:02,156 --> 00:25:05,516
Speaker 3: two in the morning and stuff like that. It was

412
00:25:05,796 --> 00:25:06,796
Speaker 3: really a scene.

413
00:25:06,916 --> 00:25:09,596
Speaker 1: And she had a kind of, if I'm recalling, kind

414
00:25:09,596 --> 00:25:11,596
Speaker 1: of a tragic demise, right.

415
00:25:11,996 --> 00:25:15,516
Speaker 3: Yeah. She got married and three months later she died

416
00:25:15,556 --> 00:25:20,836
Speaker 3: in bed with her husband of a drug overdose. She

417
00:25:21,076 --> 00:25:25,276
Speaker 3: couldn't shake the drugs, you know. I'll tell you she

418
00:25:25,396 --> 00:25:31,156
Speaker 3: was an incredible human being, incredibly gentle and sensitive and

419
00:25:31,396 --> 00:25:34,836
Speaker 3: I couldn't handle it when she was up or once

420
00:25:34,876 --> 00:25:39,436
Speaker 3: she was really down, but she was just edie and sober.

421
00:25:39,956 --> 00:25:43,356
Speaker 3: I fell in love with her, I really did. She

422
00:25:43,516 --> 00:25:48,636
Speaker 3: was a splendid human being. And it's just sad that,

423
00:25:48,716 --> 00:25:50,476
Speaker 3: you know, all she had left in the end was

424
00:25:50,556 --> 00:25:52,796
Speaker 3: chow Manhattan. That was the last thing that she did,

425
00:25:53,476 --> 00:25:55,436
Speaker 3: and she lived for it to tell the story of

426
00:25:55,436 --> 00:25:59,716
Speaker 3: what happens to someone in drugs. But what came out

427
00:25:59,756 --> 00:26:03,556
Speaker 3: of it for me in the end was that was

428
00:26:03,596 --> 00:26:06,316
Speaker 3: my first and last feature as a producer in the

429
00:26:06,316 --> 00:26:11,156
Speaker 3: motion picture business. Because during that time I had been

430
00:26:11,236 --> 00:26:15,796
Speaker 3: scouting around in the East Village and I heard electronic

431
00:26:15,956 --> 00:26:20,076
Speaker 3: music playing in a nightclub called Cerebrum, and I went

432
00:26:20,156 --> 00:26:24,076
Speaker 3: up to the booth and I looked on the floor

433
00:26:24,276 --> 00:26:26,316
Speaker 3: and there were a couple of modules from a Mogue

434
00:26:26,356 --> 00:26:31,596
Speaker 3: synthesizer beeping and blooping away under the DJ, and I said,

435
00:26:31,756 --> 00:26:35,956
Speaker 3: now here's something that's really interesting. I was totally captivated

436
00:26:35,996 --> 00:26:40,676
Speaker 3: by it, and it wasn't long before I came to

437
00:26:40,756 --> 00:26:43,676
Speaker 3: the conclusion this is the way to make the music

438
00:26:43,716 --> 00:26:47,196
Speaker 3: for Chow Manhattan. And I was soon on the phone

439
00:26:47,676 --> 00:26:51,316
Speaker 3: to Robert Mogue. And it wasn't a month or two

440
00:26:51,396 --> 00:26:54,876
Speaker 3: later that my friend Tom Fly, who was in the

441
00:26:54,876 --> 00:26:59,356
Speaker 3: band called loth Are in the Hand People, and Walter Seer,

442
00:26:59,476 --> 00:27:04,156
Speaker 3: who has had since also passed on, was Bob's New

443
00:27:04,236 --> 00:27:08,156
Speaker 3: York rep, and they brought a synthesizer over to my studio,

444
00:27:08,196 --> 00:27:11,396
Speaker 3: which by this time was on forty seventh Street and

445
00:27:11,476 --> 00:27:14,316
Speaker 3: a diamond merchant building that had all these like rebbies

446
00:27:14,316 --> 00:27:15,156
Speaker 3: with the long hair.

447
00:27:15,676 --> 00:27:15,916
Speaker 1: Right.

448
00:27:16,116 --> 00:27:18,156
Speaker 3: It wasn't much different than the people that showed up

449
00:27:18,196 --> 00:27:21,356
Speaker 3: at my place, really, except they all wore black coats

450
00:27:21,396 --> 00:27:24,796
Speaker 3: and carried their diamonds and their briefcases, clutching them to

451
00:27:24,876 --> 00:27:29,796
Speaker 3: their chests and making deals at Keat's downstairs in the

452
00:27:29,836 --> 00:27:34,156
Speaker 3: coffee shop, you know. But so I lived in that building.

453
00:27:34,276 --> 00:27:37,236
Speaker 3: We had a studio in there, and we started I

454
00:27:37,236 --> 00:27:40,796
Speaker 3: started playing around with the synthesizer, and I, to make

455
00:27:40,836 --> 00:27:45,036
Speaker 3: a long story short, I preferred the synthesizer the filmmaking,

456
00:27:45,876 --> 00:27:50,076
Speaker 3: and I ran out of money and things went south.

457
00:27:50,116 --> 00:27:51,556
Speaker 3: There were a lot of there was a little bit

458
00:27:51,596 --> 00:27:55,356
Speaker 3: too much Doctor Robert and Doctor Robert and infight have

459
00:27:55,436 --> 00:27:59,036
Speaker 3: been shots going on that really in the end, blew

460
00:27:59,076 --> 00:28:01,996
Speaker 3: the whole thing out of the water. Everything went down

461
00:28:02,036 --> 00:28:06,756
Speaker 3: the tubes, with the exception of my synthesizer and a

462
00:28:06,756 --> 00:28:10,276
Speaker 3: few pieces of furniture, and it up at a place

463
00:28:10,356 --> 00:28:15,356
Speaker 3: called Broadway Recording Studios. And the guy who owned that place,

464
00:28:15,436 --> 00:28:18,636
Speaker 3: this guy named Pat Jakes. He was a wonderful man

465
00:28:19,196 --> 00:28:21,516
Speaker 3: and he really got me going. I mean I was

466
00:28:21,556 --> 00:28:26,156
Speaker 3: already doing. I already produced my first semi electronica album,

467
00:28:26,236 --> 00:28:28,396
Speaker 3: with a band called lowth Are in the Hand People.

468
00:28:29,036 --> 00:28:33,036
Speaker 3: I did the record for John Hammond the Capitol, and

469
00:28:33,276 --> 00:28:38,196
Speaker 3: if you listen to Like Machines on that record and

470
00:28:38,236 --> 00:28:41,636
Speaker 3: then listened to Whip It, you will see a direct relationship.

471
00:28:41,916 --> 00:28:46,996
Speaker 3: Because I produced Whip It right with Devo, you will

472
00:28:47,036 --> 00:28:50,596
Speaker 3: see the direct relationship between the idea of the fusion

473
00:28:50,636 --> 00:28:54,796
Speaker 3: of rock and roll instruments and electronica. Wow, it's very

474
00:28:54,836 --> 00:28:58,876
Speaker 3: evident in that thing. But that's where I got the synthesizer.

475
00:28:59,796 --> 00:29:02,836
Speaker 3: From there, I went to Media Sound because Media was

476
00:29:03,356 --> 00:29:07,476
Speaker 3: really happening. It was a big studio, and I ended

477
00:29:07,556 --> 00:29:12,996
Speaker 3: up there becoming their electronic genius and bad boy. I

478
00:29:13,116 --> 00:29:15,516
Speaker 3: looked like nobody else there. I looked like a freak,

479
00:29:15,596 --> 00:29:19,156
Speaker 3: of course, and a joint sticking out of my mouth,

480
00:29:19,236 --> 00:29:23,156
Speaker 3: and you know, doing crazy daisy toilet paper commercials and

481
00:29:23,196 --> 00:29:26,116
Speaker 3: stuff during the day. But at night I was writing

482
00:29:26,156 --> 00:29:31,796
Speaker 3: serious classical music. And that's where I met Malcolm Malcolm Cecil,

483
00:29:32,316 --> 00:29:34,796
Speaker 3: who he was not only the head of maintenance. He

484
00:29:34,876 --> 00:29:38,716
Speaker 3: was an ACE electronics guy, but he was also an

485
00:29:38,796 --> 00:29:43,316
Speaker 3: ACE musician and played bass and played at Ronnie Scott's.

486
00:29:43,356 --> 00:29:48,276
Speaker 3: Every major jazzer, including people like Charlie Watts and Jeff Beck.

487
00:29:48,476 --> 00:29:51,316
Speaker 3: Jeff Beck, right, all these guys would come and play.

488
00:29:51,396 --> 00:29:54,036
Speaker 3: Herbie band would come. When the jazzers came from out

489
00:29:54,036 --> 00:29:57,596
Speaker 3: of town. Ronnie Scott's had a back line, you know,

490
00:29:57,596 --> 00:30:01,716
Speaker 3: a rhythm section because most jazzers couldn't afford to play right,

491
00:30:02,236 --> 00:30:05,476
Speaker 3: bring a band. So Malcolm was in that band.

492
00:30:05,636 --> 00:30:10,436
Speaker 1: Was Ronnie Scott's house band bass player Yeah London, Yeah wow.

493
00:30:10,556 --> 00:30:15,476
Speaker 3: He's an extremely accomplished musician, beyond any level of musicianship

494
00:30:15,516 --> 00:30:18,796
Speaker 3: that I had. The difference was he liked to play

495
00:30:18,836 --> 00:30:21,956
Speaker 3: out in front of people, right, he was all for that.

496
00:30:22,756 --> 00:30:25,476
Speaker 3: He was as thin Asarail, had a big puffy hair

497
00:30:25,516 --> 00:30:28,396
Speaker 3: to do, looked like a big Q tip. What night

498
00:30:28,436 --> 00:30:32,276
Speaker 3: I walked into media to work on my with my synthesizer,

499
00:30:32,316 --> 00:30:34,836
Speaker 3: and they just tired him. And he was standing in

500
00:30:34,916 --> 00:30:38,116
Speaker 3: studio A and the console had one big top plate

501
00:30:38,196 --> 00:30:41,196
Speaker 3: on it that lifted up like this, like the hood

502
00:30:41,196 --> 00:30:44,436
Speaker 3: of a car. Everyone was building their own consoles. There

503
00:30:44,476 --> 00:30:48,436
Speaker 3: was no need this in SSL, that or any of

504
00:30:48,476 --> 00:30:51,276
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff. It was all everybody in the

505
00:30:51,316 --> 00:30:56,476
Speaker 3: studio business was busy jury rigging their own consoles. So

506
00:30:57,436 --> 00:30:59,316
Speaker 3: Malcolm was standing in front of thing and it looked

507
00:30:59,356 --> 00:31:04,396
Speaker 3: like like a rat's nest inside the console. And I

508
00:31:04,516 --> 00:31:08,316
Speaker 3: walked in and I was wearing a sheer sheepskin sheer coat.

509
00:31:08,396 --> 00:31:11,036
Speaker 3: It was in the winter time, and I usually would

510
00:31:11,076 --> 00:31:13,476
Speaker 3: come in at night if I wasn't doing your commercial

511
00:31:13,596 --> 00:31:17,316
Speaker 3: or something. Right, So Malcolm was in there fixing the

512
00:31:17,396 --> 00:31:19,876
Speaker 3: console or doing something to it, and I said, do

513
00:31:19,916 --> 00:31:23,196
Speaker 3: you really know how to fix this thing? And he says,

514
00:31:23,676 --> 00:31:27,596
Speaker 3: I ought to because it's my job here. And he said,

515
00:31:27,756 --> 00:31:30,556
Speaker 3: are you the guy with that funny synthesizer in the

516
00:31:30,556 --> 00:31:33,836
Speaker 3: other room. I said yeah, and I own it. And

517
00:31:33,876 --> 00:31:35,636
Speaker 3: he says, don't make a deal with you, and I said,

518
00:31:35,636 --> 00:31:38,116
Speaker 3: what is it. He said, I'll teach you how to

519
00:31:38,116 --> 00:31:41,316
Speaker 3: become a first class recording engineer if you teach me

520
00:31:41,356 --> 00:31:42,876
Speaker 3: how to play the synthesizer.

521
00:31:43,756 --> 00:31:43,996
Speaker 1: Wow.

522
00:31:44,036 --> 00:31:47,316
Speaker 3: And we shook hands on that deal and the rest

523
00:31:47,436 --> 00:31:48,036
Speaker 3: is history.

524
00:31:49,276 --> 00:31:50,796
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and then we'll

525
00:31:50,836 --> 00:31:53,476
Speaker 1: be back with more from my interview with Robert Margolev.

526
00:31:57,836 --> 00:32:01,556
Speaker 1: We're back with more from Robert Margolev. Did you even

527
00:32:01,596 --> 00:32:03,836
Speaker 1: want to learn how to become a recording engineer? First?

528
00:32:04,116 --> 00:32:06,196
Speaker 3: Yeah? I did, and I didn't. To me, it's just

529
00:32:06,236 --> 00:32:09,716
Speaker 3: the way through to the end, because electronic music has

530
00:32:09,756 --> 00:32:14,236
Speaker 3: no instrument. Electronic exists in the air. It's not like

531
00:32:14,316 --> 00:32:17,156
Speaker 3: a saxophone or a trumpet that plays a certain sound

532
00:32:17,636 --> 00:32:20,796
Speaker 3: that you have like place one note. Well, the synthesizer

533
00:32:20,836 --> 00:32:22,796
Speaker 3: plays one note, but you don't have to have an

534
00:32:22,836 --> 00:32:25,916
Speaker 3: ambisher for it. You don't have to have a physical

535
00:32:25,956 --> 00:32:29,036
Speaker 3: training to play. But the synthesizer, as big as it

536
00:32:29,076 --> 00:32:31,636
Speaker 3: is at that point, only played one event or note

537
00:32:31,636 --> 00:32:35,436
Speaker 3: at a time, right, And I was busy writing music

538
00:32:36,436 --> 00:32:38,396
Speaker 3: based on the fact that I would do one or

539
00:32:38,396 --> 00:32:42,636
Speaker 3: two lines simultaneously, and I was putting together some music.

540
00:32:42,676 --> 00:32:45,516
Speaker 3: The first piece I worked on was called Aurora, was

541
00:32:45,676 --> 00:32:48,476
Speaker 3: very science fiction, had nothing to do with eight bar

542
00:32:48,596 --> 00:32:51,876
Speaker 3: phrases boom boom, boom, none of that. It wasn't pop

543
00:32:51,956 --> 00:32:55,076
Speaker 3: music at all. It was really kind of classical music.

544
00:32:55,996 --> 00:32:59,836
Speaker 3: And Malcolm was enthrawled by that because we were writing

545
00:32:59,916 --> 00:33:03,716
Speaker 3: music with for non existent instruments that occurred only in

546
00:33:03,796 --> 00:33:05,076
Speaker 3: space and in our heads.

547
00:33:05,956 --> 00:33:08,356
Speaker 1: You really couldn't play a chord at that time. You

548
00:33:08,356 --> 00:33:12,356
Speaker 1: couldn't play a basic C major coord have no court peggiated.

549
00:33:12,916 --> 00:33:15,156
Speaker 3: You could arpeggiate, but there's no quartz because you can

550
00:33:15,236 --> 00:33:18,876
Speaker 3: only play one event on one keyboard Tonto, which we

551
00:33:18,956 --> 00:33:22,116
Speaker 3: originally we called it finally called a Tonto, the original

552
00:33:22,396 --> 00:33:26,956
Speaker 3: Neo Timbrel Orchestra, and that kind of name kind of

553
00:33:26,996 --> 00:33:30,276
Speaker 3: stuck to it. And we started to really sort of

554
00:33:30,276 --> 00:33:33,436
Speaker 3: plan how we could get to have multiple voices, and

555
00:33:33,476 --> 00:33:36,196
Speaker 3: we did that at a Chinese restaurant across the street

556
00:33:36,276 --> 00:33:39,876
Speaker 3: from Media. Food was terrible and filled with mono sodium

557
00:33:39,876 --> 00:33:42,676
Speaker 3: in glutamate. So every time we went over there to

558
00:33:42,716 --> 00:33:45,836
Speaker 3: eat dinner, like I would get flushed and I my

559
00:33:45,916 --> 00:33:49,636
Speaker 3: face would get really red and stuff. But we drew

560
00:33:49,676 --> 00:33:53,036
Speaker 3: the plans for Tonto on the tablecloth. They had paper tablecloth,

561
00:33:53,716 --> 00:33:57,836
Speaker 3: so Tanto was designed on a tablecloth at this Chinese

562
00:33:58,236 --> 00:34:01,876
Speaker 3: Spanish restaurant. It was sort of an in beach fusion,

563
00:34:02,716 --> 00:34:08,276
Speaker 3: fusion and confusion, but we were slowly putting it together,

564
00:34:08,316 --> 00:34:10,596
Speaker 3: and it was a big pile of equipment on three

565
00:34:10,636 --> 00:34:14,596
Speaker 3: or four tables and a big gurney, and we were

566
00:34:14,716 --> 00:34:18,596
Speaker 3: really sailing along making some of the strangest music you

567
00:34:18,636 --> 00:34:21,516
Speaker 3: would ever believe. Were working about a year or till

568
00:34:21,516 --> 00:34:27,196
Speaker 3: we became very close friends and it slowly came together.

569
00:34:27,356 --> 00:34:31,156
Speaker 3: And then one night we were working along and Herbie

570
00:34:31,156 --> 00:34:34,316
Speaker 3: Man walked into the back of the control room and

571
00:34:34,356 --> 00:34:36,396
Speaker 3: looked at Malcolm and said, what the hell are you

572
00:34:36,516 --> 00:34:40,676
Speaker 3: doing here? And because he remembered Malcolm from Ronnie Scott's

573
00:34:40,756 --> 00:34:44,996
Speaker 3: Wow Okay, because Malcolm would play when Herbie would come

574
00:34:45,036 --> 00:34:45,916
Speaker 3: over to play.

575
00:34:45,916 --> 00:34:48,396
Speaker 1: Herbie's floutest Yeah.

576
00:34:48,436 --> 00:34:52,636
Speaker 3: So he said, well, we're doing something really rather different.

577
00:34:53,196 --> 00:34:57,036
Speaker 3: And Malo, he pointed out and said, you playing electronica

578
00:34:57,196 --> 00:35:00,436
Speaker 3: because he viewed Malcolm playing up Pride acoustic bass, which

579
00:35:00,476 --> 00:35:04,836
Speaker 3: was Malcolm's first instrument, right, And Malcolm said, Herbie, don't

580
00:35:04,876 --> 00:35:08,676
Speaker 3: sweat it. And we pulled the synthesizer out into the

581
00:35:08,716 --> 00:35:11,196
Speaker 3: studio and I put two big loud speakers, one on

582
00:35:11,276 --> 00:35:14,436
Speaker 3: each side, and we sat them down in the front

583
00:35:14,436 --> 00:35:17,516
Speaker 3: of the synthesizer and we played it at high level

584
00:35:17,556 --> 00:35:20,636
Speaker 3: and blew his mind and he said, you guys want

585
00:35:20,676 --> 00:35:24,276
Speaker 3: a deal. Malcolm said, yeah, we want a deal. He says, well,

586
00:35:24,316 --> 00:35:26,676
Speaker 3: I have one slop left on Embryo. I have my

587
00:35:27,356 --> 00:35:31,916
Speaker 3: label on Atlantics called Embryo, and I'll sign you guys.

588
00:35:32,076 --> 00:35:34,716
Speaker 3: I said, really, we're going to have a record deal,

589
00:35:35,276 --> 00:35:40,756
Speaker 3: you know, a real record deal, and we signed with Herbie.

590
00:35:41,356 --> 00:35:43,996
Speaker 1: Did you have material at the time, had you written stuff.

591
00:35:43,676 --> 00:35:47,636
Speaker 3: Like it was all recorded, no music, no written music,

592
00:35:47,796 --> 00:35:52,196
Speaker 3: everything head charts like jazz. And we put that record

593
00:35:52,196 --> 00:35:56,076
Speaker 3: together called Zero Time, and Herbie put the record out

594
00:35:57,276 --> 00:36:01,716
Speaker 3: and it made a big noise Rolling Stone. It got

595
00:36:01,796 --> 00:36:07,396
Speaker 3: huge reviews, and that was the beginning of what really

596
00:36:07,516 --> 00:36:10,116
Speaker 3: started to change my world forever.

597
00:36:10,476 --> 00:36:13,116
Speaker 1: How much editing did that album require?

598
00:36:13,916 --> 00:36:15,836
Speaker 3: A good bit? We fooled around with it a lot.

599
00:36:16,236 --> 00:36:18,516
Speaker 3: My song Aurora, which was the first thing we did,

600
00:36:19,156 --> 00:36:23,036
Speaker 3: was twenty six minutes long, okay, And I said, Malcolm,

601
00:36:23,276 --> 00:36:26,036
Speaker 3: I'm not even sure this is music, and he said,

602
00:36:26,036 --> 00:36:27,796
Speaker 3: it's music all right, it just needs a bit of

603
00:36:27,836 --> 00:36:29,876
Speaker 3: an edit. It turned out to be seven and a

604
00:36:29,916 --> 00:36:34,196
Speaker 3: half minutes long, so it was classic, Okay.

605
00:36:34,516 --> 00:36:34,876
Speaker 1: Need to do it.

606
00:36:35,076 --> 00:36:37,076
Speaker 3: We had a big da we had. We did so

607
00:36:37,156 --> 00:36:40,196
Speaker 3: much laughing. Our faces hurt. I'll tell you something. We

608
00:36:40,196 --> 00:36:42,556
Speaker 3: were laughing all the time. We had a wonderful time

609
00:36:42,676 --> 00:36:45,636
Speaker 3: working together, and we were working with other artists as well.

610
00:36:45,716 --> 00:36:49,996
Speaker 3: Richie Havens came by a whole bunch of other few you.

611
00:36:49,956 --> 00:36:52,556
Speaker 1: Guys producer Richie Havens record. Yeah, how did that.

612
00:36:52,516 --> 00:36:56,956
Speaker 3: Come to Stormy Forrest? This was Richie's label, right, And

613
00:36:57,036 --> 00:36:59,116
Speaker 3: I fell in love with Richie when it before I

614
00:36:59,156 --> 00:37:02,036
Speaker 3: even got to Media where I was working at Broadway.

615
00:37:02,156 --> 00:37:03,996
Speaker 3: He came with his label and a whole bunch of

616
00:37:04,036 --> 00:37:07,596
Speaker 3: hippie musicians and we just got along. And I love

617
00:37:07,676 --> 00:37:12,156
Speaker 3: Richie and I went to Woodstock with him. They opened,

618
00:37:12,396 --> 00:37:12,996
Speaker 3: He opened the.

619
00:37:12,916 --> 00:37:15,676
Speaker 1: Show an iconic performance, So you were there for that.

620
00:37:16,236 --> 00:37:17,556
Speaker 3: I was there for that.

621
00:37:17,556 --> 00:37:20,276
Speaker 1: That's an incredible performance. So it's all running late and

622
00:37:20,316 --> 00:37:21,476
Speaker 1: he goes out by himself.

623
00:37:21,636 --> 00:37:25,916
Speaker 3: Yeah, he goes out by himself. And the strange thing

624
00:37:26,076 --> 00:37:30,116
Speaker 3: is the guys that paid for Woodstock also built Media

625
00:37:30,236 --> 00:37:35,716
Speaker 3: Sound Joel Rosenman. So I was when I got to Media,

626
00:37:35,836 --> 00:37:39,316
Speaker 3: I was among friends immediately, and they tolerate as long

627
00:37:39,356 --> 00:37:41,876
Speaker 3: as we did. Malcolm did what had to do to

628
00:37:41,956 --> 00:37:45,156
Speaker 3: keep the studios rolling, and I was doing what I

629
00:37:45,236 --> 00:37:48,516
Speaker 3: was doing to make music for the clients, to make

630
00:37:48,596 --> 00:37:52,196
Speaker 3: you know, music for crazy Daisy toilet paper and Trans

631
00:37:52,316 --> 00:37:56,396
Speaker 3: Caribbean airways and all kinds of stuff. They would basically

632
00:37:56,476 --> 00:37:58,836
Speaker 3: leave us alone because they knew where we came from.

633
00:37:58,916 --> 00:38:00,836
Speaker 1: And you get free time, so basically free time you got.

634
00:38:02,036 --> 00:38:04,796
Speaker 3: There was no time we had. We could do whatever

635
00:38:04,836 --> 00:38:08,316
Speaker 3: we wanted, just as long as when there was paying

636
00:38:08,356 --> 00:38:11,276
Speaker 3: session was and in you know, twenty five string players

637
00:38:11,676 --> 00:38:16,956
Speaker 3: that everything worked, everything was good, and so what happened

638
00:38:17,076 --> 00:38:20,156
Speaker 3: was the record came out and made a big noise.

639
00:38:20,996 --> 00:38:23,876
Speaker 3: And then on Memorial Day weekend nineteen seventy I think

640
00:38:23,876 --> 00:38:28,556
Speaker 3: it was nineteen seventy one. It was a Sunday, fifty

641
00:38:28,596 --> 00:38:32,196
Speaker 3: seventh Street was like a ghost town. Malcolm had a

642
00:38:32,196 --> 00:38:36,396
Speaker 3: little apartment next to the front door of Media Sound.

643
00:38:36,436 --> 00:38:38,836
Speaker 3: I'm up one flight over at Deli, which was just

644
00:38:38,956 --> 00:38:44,996
Speaker 3: next door, and we hear malcobe Malcolm and we look

645
00:38:45,036 --> 00:38:47,116
Speaker 3: out the window, the front window. We're looking down at

646
00:38:47,116 --> 00:38:50,036
Speaker 3: the front door of Media and there is our friend,

647
00:38:50,156 --> 00:38:53,716
Speaker 3: fellow bass player, Ronnie Blanco was standing there with Stevie,

648
00:38:54,636 --> 00:38:57,796
Speaker 3: who we didn't know. Was just a big, tall black guy, right,

649
00:38:58,476 --> 00:39:02,436
Speaker 3: and he had our album under his arm, and we

650
00:39:02,476 --> 00:39:07,156
Speaker 3: invited him in and we started recording and we didn't

651
00:39:07,196 --> 00:39:08,356
Speaker 3: stop for five years.

652
00:39:08,476 --> 00:39:14,356
Speaker 1: Wait a seme, So you invite him into Malcolm's home.

653
00:39:14,796 --> 00:39:17,076
Speaker 3: Yeah. We then go down, we go upstairs and he

654
00:39:17,316 --> 00:39:20,116
Speaker 3: Malcolm plays bass for a little while upstairs and Stevee's

655
00:39:20,116 --> 00:39:25,636
Speaker 3: honking around on Frank Philip Petty's melotron, which Malcolm was

656
00:39:25,676 --> 00:39:28,836
Speaker 3: fixing putting new tapes in. Right, We honked around for

657
00:39:28,876 --> 00:39:30,836
Speaker 3: about twenty minutes, you said you want to go downstairs

658
00:39:30,836 --> 00:39:34,996
Speaker 3: and see Tonto, and he said yeah, and that was

659
00:39:35,036 --> 00:39:37,076
Speaker 3: the beginning of it. We unlocked the front door and

660
00:39:37,156 --> 00:39:40,316
Speaker 3: walked in, and I don't know what the hell happened

661
00:39:40,316 --> 00:39:43,236
Speaker 3: for the next five years, you know, you tell me. Well,

662
00:39:43,316 --> 00:39:47,556
Speaker 3: I was invisible, you know, And we maintained Malcolm and

663
00:39:47,596 --> 00:39:51,596
Speaker 3: I sort of were invisible in a lot of ways.

664
00:39:52,156 --> 00:39:55,076
Speaker 3: But I always viewed my job because I didn't ever

665
00:39:55,116 --> 00:39:57,076
Speaker 3: want to be standing in the front of the stage.

666
00:39:57,116 --> 00:40:00,756
Speaker 3: So I'm perfectly happy to do stuff right. I'm so

667
00:40:00,916 --> 00:40:03,996
Speaker 3: perfectly happy to be the man behind the curtain. Malcolm,

668
00:40:04,076 --> 00:40:06,676
Speaker 3: on the other hand, wanted to play out, so we

669
00:40:06,796 --> 00:40:08,796
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time trying to figure out how

670
00:40:08,836 --> 00:40:11,916
Speaker 3: to get Tonto to play live. But remember this was

671
00:40:11,956 --> 00:40:16,356
Speaker 3: all analog. There was no high technology involved at all.

672
00:40:18,036 --> 00:40:20,316
Speaker 3: There was no MIDI, it was none of that stuff.

673
00:40:20,516 --> 00:40:23,636
Speaker 3: So everything we did was all voltage controlled and analog.

674
00:40:24,556 --> 00:40:29,516
Speaker 3: It was highly unstable. Power supply issues RF from a

675
00:40:29,636 --> 00:40:33,476
Speaker 3: radio station could fuck with the pitch and stuff. It

676
00:40:33,556 --> 00:40:37,916
Speaker 3: was not what you would call the encomium of stability.

677
00:40:38,676 --> 00:40:40,436
Speaker 3: It was pretty loose.

678
00:40:40,916 --> 00:40:43,156
Speaker 1: Stevie had a hard time with it at first. Correct

679
00:40:43,436 --> 00:40:45,956
Speaker 1: with the synthesize with really too much.

680
00:40:45,996 --> 00:40:50,476
Speaker 3: We ended up everyone found a role, and to be

681
00:40:50,636 --> 00:40:55,676
Speaker 3: very honest, I don't know what the hell happened. I mean,

682
00:40:55,716 --> 00:40:57,996
Speaker 3: once we started working with Stevie, it was like a

683
00:40:58,036 --> 00:41:03,276
Speaker 3: fever dream. There was no daytime or nighttime. There were

684
00:41:03,316 --> 00:41:05,236
Speaker 3: no other clients in the end, by the time we

685
00:41:05,276 --> 00:41:09,036
Speaker 3: got to Electric Lady, all our other clients were based

686
00:41:09,876 --> 00:41:13,876
Speaker 3: non existent because we couldn't accommodate them. We were living

687
00:41:13,996 --> 00:41:18,076
Speaker 3: inside Stevie's bubble. And we lived like that for five years.

688
00:41:18,156 --> 00:41:19,196
Speaker 1: What was his bubble like?

689
00:41:20,316 --> 00:41:23,596
Speaker 3: Well, for us, it was never let's go out to

690
00:41:23,636 --> 00:41:26,876
Speaker 3: dinner and or go to a party or do any

691
00:41:26,956 --> 00:41:30,956
Speaker 3: kind of social thing. Our entire existence with Steve revolved

692
00:41:30,956 --> 00:41:31,836
Speaker 3: around being in the.

693
00:41:31,836 --> 00:41:33,836
Speaker 1: Studio and he was there a lot, right.

694
00:41:34,076 --> 00:41:36,836
Speaker 3: Yes, he would call us if it was four in

695
00:41:36,876 --> 00:41:39,156
Speaker 3: the morning and he wanted to do something, we would

696
00:41:39,196 --> 00:41:44,276
Speaker 3: be there for him. Wow, And we ended up having

697
00:41:44,316 --> 00:41:48,516
Speaker 3: to leave Media. First of all, we were consuming so

698
00:41:48,596 --> 00:41:52,316
Speaker 3: much time that they were getting a little nervous because

699
00:41:52,316 --> 00:41:57,516
Speaker 3: they couldn't accommodate their commercial clients. And I, Malcolm and

700
00:41:57,596 --> 00:42:00,916
Speaker 3: I set up the studio for Steve so that he

701
00:42:00,956 --> 00:42:06,436
Speaker 3: could sort of memorize where everything was. And also there

702
00:42:06,476 --> 00:42:10,236
Speaker 3: were very particular things that we did when we recorded

703
00:42:10,276 --> 00:42:12,316
Speaker 3: the drums. If you listen to any of those Stevie

704
00:42:12,436 --> 00:42:18,076
Speaker 3: Wonder records or any of the records that I've done

705
00:42:18,116 --> 00:42:20,236
Speaker 3: since those days, you'll see the high hat is on

706
00:42:20,316 --> 00:42:24,916
Speaker 3: the left, okay, And the reason for that is that

707
00:42:24,916 --> 00:42:28,676
Speaker 3: that is the position by which only the drummer really

708
00:42:28,996 --> 00:42:32,196
Speaker 3: hears the drums in stereo, and that always puts the

709
00:42:32,276 --> 00:42:36,556
Speaker 3: high hat on the left because Stevie was facing the drums.

710
00:42:37,356 --> 00:42:40,756
Speaker 3: So what I wanted to make sure of was that

711
00:42:40,836 --> 00:42:45,316
Speaker 3: Steve heard the same sonic image in his headphones that

712
00:42:45,396 --> 00:42:49,516
Speaker 3: he heard live in the room, right, so because that

713
00:42:49,636 --> 00:42:53,276
Speaker 3: helped him know where the drums were. So we had

714
00:42:53,316 --> 00:42:56,956
Speaker 3: a lot of sensitivity toward how Stevie was listening to.

715
00:42:57,476 --> 00:43:01,196
Speaker 1: It's so interesting that it's such a banal, non artistic consideration,

716
00:43:02,156 --> 00:43:05,436
Speaker 1: you know, leads to such a strong artistic Children make.

717
00:43:05,316 --> 00:43:08,556
Speaker 3: A lot of difference. We set up every instrument that

718
00:43:08,596 --> 00:43:11,436
Speaker 3: he was going to possibly being used. When we there's

719
00:43:11,476 --> 00:43:13,636
Speaker 3: always an open mic in the control, not one of

720
00:43:13,636 --> 00:43:18,116
Speaker 3: these things where you go Steve, Steve playing the drums again.

721
00:43:18,276 --> 00:43:21,876
Speaker 3: It was not one of those sort of earphone monitor things.

722
00:43:22,276 --> 00:43:25,236
Speaker 3: We had an open, full frequency microphone just like this

723
00:43:25,276 --> 00:43:28,076
Speaker 3: one here, so Steve could always hear what we were

724
00:43:28,116 --> 00:43:32,316
Speaker 3: talking about. It basically made the control room window disappear.

725
00:43:32,956 --> 00:43:36,916
Speaker 3: It became one room. Now that's commonplace today forty some

726
00:43:36,916 --> 00:43:40,316
Speaker 3: odd years later, right, But nobody was doing that at

727
00:43:40,316 --> 00:43:43,996
Speaker 3: that time. Everyone was the musicians are on this side

728
00:43:44,036 --> 00:43:46,636
Speaker 3: of the glass and the engineers were over here, and

729
00:43:46,676 --> 00:43:49,276
Speaker 3: they never meet, you know, the engineers all or little

730
00:43:49,556 --> 00:43:53,716
Speaker 3: pocket protectors with pens and pencils and short sleeve white shirts.

731
00:43:54,196 --> 00:43:56,316
Speaker 3: And then the musicians had their own world in the

732
00:43:56,356 --> 00:43:59,156
Speaker 3: other space, right, It was only the three of us.

733
00:43:59,236 --> 00:44:02,316
Speaker 3: Like Music of My Mind, the first album was just Malcolm,

734
00:44:02,396 --> 00:44:06,316
Speaker 3: me and Stevie did the whole thing. I think one

735
00:44:06,356 --> 00:44:10,276
Speaker 3: guitar part. Buzzy played feet and played on and Sanborn

736
00:44:10,356 --> 00:44:12,516
Speaker 3: played on that record. There are a whole bunch of

737
00:44:12,556 --> 00:44:18,436
Speaker 3: different people who were in the Butterfield. Yeah, Butter's horn

738
00:44:18,556 --> 00:44:21,076
Speaker 3: section sort of ended up being Stevie's horn section.

739
00:44:22,356 --> 00:44:23,156
Speaker 1: Really, I didn't know that.

740
00:44:23,396 --> 00:44:28,036
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's lots of stuff you don't know. Ye're young.

741
00:44:28,436 --> 00:44:33,436
Speaker 3: So anyways, it was always inside, you know, just the

742
00:44:33,476 --> 00:44:35,076
Speaker 3: three of us for the most part.

743
00:44:35,316 --> 00:44:37,076
Speaker 1: How away were you, I mean to your point that

744
00:44:37,116 --> 00:44:39,876
Speaker 1: there's no a record people around. How aware were you

745
00:44:40,836 --> 00:44:44,716
Speaker 1: of the tension between Stevie and Motown at that point?

746
00:44:44,996 --> 00:44:49,716
Speaker 3: Well, that only developed later, and I think that partially

747
00:44:49,756 --> 00:44:52,196
Speaker 3: had to do with the fact where we started to

748
00:44:52,236 --> 00:44:56,196
Speaker 3: go our separate ways, and that was after we moved

749
00:44:56,196 --> 00:44:58,116
Speaker 3: to La got it.

750
00:44:58,476 --> 00:45:01,716
Speaker 1: But he was negotiating his contract with Motown, not.

751
00:45:01,876 --> 00:45:04,276
Speaker 3: In the beginning, not in the beginning the first part

752
00:45:04,276 --> 00:45:08,436
Speaker 3: of music. In my mind, Steve really didn't want to

753
00:45:08,476 --> 00:45:11,476
Speaker 3: have too much to do with them. He I think

754
00:45:11,516 --> 00:45:13,756
Speaker 3: he knew sooner or later he would end up back

755
00:45:13,796 --> 00:45:16,836
Speaker 3: there one way or another. But I think he was

756
00:45:17,276 --> 00:45:20,716
Speaker 3: really very open minded and wanted to do something really

757
00:45:20,756 --> 00:45:24,556
Speaker 3: totally different. I don't think that Motown in general would

758
00:45:24,556 --> 00:45:26,316
Speaker 3: have approved of me and Malcolm at all.

759
00:45:26,716 --> 00:45:30,196
Speaker 1: Okay, and they likely didn't even know two.

760
00:45:29,996 --> 00:45:33,116
Speaker 3: White Jewish boys, one from London and one from New York.

761
00:45:33,916 --> 00:45:36,196
Speaker 3: You know, it was not what they were thinking about

762
00:45:36,836 --> 00:45:39,276
Speaker 3: at Motown and having a true black label.

763
00:45:39,476 --> 00:45:41,796
Speaker 1: Yeah, and very different from the way they had operated

764
00:45:41,836 --> 00:45:46,676
Speaker 1: in the past with their in house producers.

765
00:45:44,996 --> 00:45:48,036
Speaker 3: And everyone trusts the same and they would dance the

766
00:45:48,156 --> 00:45:51,836
Speaker 3: dancing sticks back and forth all these groups and Quartets,

767
00:45:51,916 --> 00:45:56,676
Speaker 3: the Jackson Five and the Supremes, and Steve really wasn't

768
00:45:56,716 --> 00:45:59,436
Speaker 3: hearing the music that way. They would have him just

769
00:45:59,476 --> 00:46:03,036
Speaker 3: come in. Somebody would do an arrangement, the in house

770
00:46:03,156 --> 00:46:07,396
Speaker 3: band that would do a rhythm track. They'd have Steve

771
00:46:07,436 --> 00:46:10,236
Speaker 3: come in and sing the rhythm track, and then Jean

772
00:46:10,316 --> 00:46:13,116
Speaker 3: would go away and write the charts and stuff, and

773
00:46:13,156 --> 00:46:15,316
Speaker 3: then after the mix they play it back for Steve

774
00:46:15,596 --> 00:46:19,036
Speaker 3: and he wasn't hearing what he heard coming back wasn't

775
00:46:19,076 --> 00:46:21,956
Speaker 3: even close to what he had in his head. So

776
00:46:22,156 --> 00:46:25,276
Speaker 3: he had music of my mind. So we helped him

777
00:46:25,316 --> 00:46:30,756
Speaker 3: cook up that first album cover with him with the glasses, yeah,

778
00:46:30,876 --> 00:46:34,476
Speaker 3: with the little figures and stuff outside inside.

779
00:46:34,676 --> 00:46:34,876
Speaker 1: Yeah.

780
00:46:34,956 --> 00:46:37,916
Speaker 3: Yeah, we cooked that up with Danny Blumeno, who did

781
00:46:38,476 --> 00:46:42,116
Speaker 3: these kind of artworks that were in the bathroom and

782
00:46:42,116 --> 00:46:44,996
Speaker 3: the studio Electric Lady when we went down there.

783
00:46:45,116 --> 00:46:47,036
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh, so the point the artists who did

784
00:46:47,076 --> 00:46:50,676
Speaker 1: the murals and yeah, yeah, yeah.

785
00:46:50,356 --> 00:46:53,316
Speaker 3: We had him do it, but me, Malcolm and Steve

786
00:46:53,396 --> 00:46:55,636
Speaker 3: cooked all that stuff up between the three of us,

787
00:46:56,396 --> 00:46:59,316
Speaker 3: and it was Malcolm said, you know, you were doing

788
00:46:59,396 --> 00:47:02,396
Speaker 3: music that's only been in your mind, and we said, ah,

789
00:47:02,476 --> 00:47:05,796
Speaker 3: a great title for the album. Talking book on the

790
00:47:05,836 --> 00:47:07,956
Speaker 3: other hands by photography.

791
00:47:08,436 --> 00:47:10,436
Speaker 1: The one where he's plane in the sand.

792
00:47:10,596 --> 00:47:12,476
Speaker 3: Yes, I did that.

793
00:47:12,796 --> 00:47:13,036
Speaker 1: Wow.

794
00:47:13,836 --> 00:47:17,876
Speaker 3: I mean we did everything together. It was photographed high

795
00:47:17,956 --> 00:47:21,676
Speaker 3: in the hills of Hollywood, six in the morning, just

796
00:47:21,796 --> 00:47:25,676
Speaker 3: under the Hollywood sign No way Wow. Yeah, I had

797
00:47:25,716 --> 00:47:30,716
Speaker 3: that beautiful robe. Ola Hudson did that robe and Ola

798
00:47:30,836 --> 00:47:36,476
Speaker 3: Hudson is the mother of us Slash Incredible. Yeah. So

799
00:47:36,676 --> 00:47:40,476
Speaker 3: really everything colliding in different ways. But we had to

800
00:47:40,556 --> 00:47:44,876
Speaker 3: leave media sound behind because we couldn't stay set up

801
00:47:45,236 --> 00:47:47,036
Speaker 3: and it would take to do the setup that we

802
00:47:47,116 --> 00:47:49,036
Speaker 3: had with Steve, it would take hours.

803
00:47:49,116 --> 00:47:50,996
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you couldn't break that down because they had

804
00:47:51,036 --> 00:47:51,636
Speaker 1: to be the same.

805
00:47:51,836 --> 00:47:56,836
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it was just around the time that Jimmy

806
00:47:57,556 --> 00:48:02,276
Speaker 3: decided to leave the planet basically, and Electric Lady was

807
00:48:02,316 --> 00:48:06,076
Speaker 3: a brand new studio and ended up it was designed

808
00:48:06,116 --> 00:48:08,716
Speaker 3: by my very dear friend to the stay, John Stork,

809
00:48:09,476 --> 00:48:13,596
Speaker 3: who designed the Electric Lady and also designed the cases

810
00:48:13,636 --> 00:48:19,476
Speaker 3: for Tonto, those big involved round cases, the Arcs and lived.

811
00:48:19,636 --> 00:48:23,716
Speaker 3: It started its life at Electric Ladies Studios and we

812
00:48:24,196 --> 00:48:28,116
Speaker 3: moved in just I guess a few months after Jimmy passed.

813
00:48:28,236 --> 00:48:29,756
Speaker 1: That must have been kind of a heavy time to

814
00:48:29,796 --> 00:48:31,036
Speaker 1: be there in a way.

815
00:48:31,116 --> 00:48:34,036
Speaker 3: Well, the thing is that Jimmy designed that studio, had

816
00:48:34,076 --> 00:48:36,876
Speaker 3: a studio built like that because he wanted his own

817
00:48:36,916 --> 00:48:40,276
Speaker 3: personal studio. There was no such thing as a personal

818
00:48:40,316 --> 00:48:43,156
Speaker 3: studio in those days. This was one of the would

819
00:48:43,236 --> 00:48:46,156
Speaker 3: be one of the first home studios. Well, here's a

820
00:48:46,196 --> 00:48:49,276
Speaker 3: home studio that's lasted more than sixty years. They're still

821
00:48:49,276 --> 00:48:52,636
Speaker 3: in business. Yeah, yeah, but the place is wonderful. We

822
00:48:52,676 --> 00:48:55,556
Speaker 3: went down there, Jimmy had passed away, there wasn't a

823
00:48:55,596 --> 00:48:58,036
Speaker 3: lot of business. They didn't know what to do exactly.

824
00:48:58,716 --> 00:49:01,876
Speaker 3: And we put our feet in those shoes. Yeah, and

825
00:49:01,996 --> 00:49:05,596
Speaker 3: they fit perfectly, and we started working an electric lady

826
00:49:05,596 --> 00:49:07,036
Speaker 3: and we worked there for about a year and a

827
00:49:07,076 --> 00:49:10,916
Speaker 3: half and it was a wonderful, full time, very creative time.

828
00:49:11,156 --> 00:49:12,556
Speaker 1: What did you make of the music you were hearing

829
00:49:12,636 --> 00:49:14,036
Speaker 1: from Stevie?

830
00:49:14,436 --> 00:49:16,516
Speaker 3: I'll tell you this. I didn't think there was any

831
00:49:16,556 --> 00:49:20,796
Speaker 3: other kind of music. Nothing else existed for me. I

832
00:49:21,596 --> 00:49:24,236
Speaker 3: would sleep and then I'd turn around and go back

833
00:49:24,236 --> 00:49:28,356
Speaker 3: to the studio. We worked in Jewish holidays and Christmas,

834
00:49:28,396 --> 00:49:32,076
Speaker 3: and any time that Steve was in town, we would work.

835
00:49:32,116 --> 00:49:34,756
Speaker 3: And when we were not working with Steve because he

836
00:49:34,876 --> 00:49:37,596
Speaker 3: was on the road or something like that then we

837
00:49:37,636 --> 00:49:41,036
Speaker 3: would work on Tonto and make more music. So we're

838
00:49:41,276 --> 00:49:45,836
Speaker 3: living totally oblivious to anything, including any kind of business

839
00:49:45,876 --> 00:49:48,836
Speaker 3: relationship we had with Stevie. Nothing mattered.

840
00:49:48,996 --> 00:49:51,636
Speaker 1: What was it that stuff discussed? The business stuff, it was.

841
00:49:51,596 --> 00:49:58,156
Speaker 3: Discussed only once at the beginning of our relationship. He said, hey, guys,

842
00:49:58,156 --> 00:50:00,796
Speaker 3: I want you to be directors of my company and

843
00:50:00,836 --> 00:50:02,956
Speaker 3: we said yes, and then we shook hands on that

844
00:50:03,036 --> 00:50:04,076
Speaker 3: and that was it.

845
00:50:03,836 --> 00:50:07,916
Speaker 1: His production company or his publishing this production company, I think, okay,

846
00:50:08,516 --> 00:50:11,916
Speaker 1: And we were discussed again until it really became finally

847
00:50:11,956 --> 00:50:13,596
Speaker 1: an issue because we weren't.

848
00:50:14,236 --> 00:50:18,756
Speaker 3: We didn't finally feel we were being felt unloved sort of.

849
00:50:18,796 --> 00:50:22,996
Speaker 3: And at the end of the deal, Motown also didn't

850
00:50:23,036 --> 00:50:25,276
Speaker 3: put us in the ads or give us credits for

851
00:50:25,436 --> 00:50:28,516
Speaker 3: things and the trades and stuff, and we knew that

852
00:50:29,236 --> 00:50:33,156
Speaker 3: really they didn't really see us as being a part

853
00:50:33,196 --> 00:50:37,596
Speaker 3: of Steve and Steve never had any issues with us,

854
00:50:37,996 --> 00:50:41,116
Speaker 3: you know, for us and Steve, it was always the music.

855
00:50:41,836 --> 00:50:45,076
Speaker 3: We never really got into business or anything else until

856
00:50:45,116 --> 00:50:48,516
Speaker 3: it became an issue towards the end of our relationship,

857
00:50:48,556 --> 00:50:51,756
Speaker 3: and that was the reason for our party of the ways.

858
00:50:51,796 --> 00:50:55,276
Speaker 3: But we had a really good run of nearly five years,

859
00:50:55,996 --> 00:50:59,276
Speaker 3: and you know, Steve finally gave us a huge thank

860
00:50:59,316 --> 00:51:02,116
Speaker 3: you at one of his concerts, you know. And Steve

861
00:51:02,156 --> 00:51:07,556
Speaker 3: and I have very cordial relationship now, friendly and together

862
00:51:07,796 --> 00:51:11,796
Speaker 3: and from him ever, yeah, I do. I just send

863
00:51:11,836 --> 00:51:14,956
Speaker 3: him a text message a few nights ago talking about

864
00:51:14,996 --> 00:51:18,156
Speaker 3: him maybe writing something for my book for openers, you know.

865
00:51:18,836 --> 00:51:23,676
Speaker 3: But we have a lasting friendship of more than fifty years.

866
00:51:23,676 --> 00:51:26,396
Speaker 3: But it's not let's go out to dinner kind of friendship.

867
00:51:26,996 --> 00:51:29,556
Speaker 3: You know. There's a certain arm's length to it, and

868
00:51:29,636 --> 00:51:32,876
Speaker 3: I totally understand that. And he has people that are

869
00:51:32,916 --> 00:51:34,756
Speaker 3: working for him, that have worked for him for twenty

870
00:51:34,796 --> 00:51:37,356
Speaker 3: five years. I did something with him, I think a

871
00:51:37,436 --> 00:51:38,956
Speaker 3: year and a half or two years ago. I did

872
00:51:38,996 --> 00:51:42,076
Speaker 3: one mode track for his new record, and I was

873
00:51:42,116 --> 00:51:45,316
Speaker 3: honored and happy to do it. I have a very

874
00:51:45,356 --> 00:51:48,836
Speaker 3: decent relationship with him, and I know that everything in

875
00:51:48,876 --> 00:51:52,236
Speaker 3: our relationship wasn't perfect, especially when it came to the

876
00:51:52,276 --> 00:51:57,716
Speaker 3: business part of things, but that is thesiness of the business. Yes, okay,

877
00:51:58,676 --> 00:52:02,676
Speaker 3: I can't change it. It's water under the bridge. But

878
00:52:02,796 --> 00:52:05,156
Speaker 3: I know that what we did is way more important

879
00:52:05,196 --> 00:52:11,396
Speaker 3: than a few shekels. Okay, we did something really and

880
00:52:11,516 --> 00:52:14,836
Speaker 3: for that I have to thank by higher power. We

881
00:52:14,876 --> 00:52:21,076
Speaker 3: did something that was really beautiful and really incredible in

882
00:52:21,116 --> 00:52:21,556
Speaker 3: its way.

883
00:52:22,996 --> 00:52:24,716
Speaker 1: We have to take another quick break and then we'll

884
00:52:24,756 --> 00:52:31,756
Speaker 1: be back with more from Robert Margolef. Here was the

885
00:52:31,796 --> 00:52:35,876
Speaker 1: rest of my conversation with Robert Margolev. Do you remember

886
00:52:36,756 --> 00:52:38,916
Speaker 1: some of the early feedback you were getting from other

887
00:52:38,996 --> 00:52:40,916
Speaker 1: people who weren't in the room with you guys making

888
00:52:40,916 --> 00:52:41,356
Speaker 1: the music.

889
00:52:42,036 --> 00:52:45,916
Speaker 3: Oh, there were always people, you know, going around the edges,

890
00:52:46,636 --> 00:52:51,156
Speaker 3: coming and going. But we finally we moved out from LA.

891
00:52:52,196 --> 00:52:56,476
Speaker 3: Motown had just recently moved from Detroit to LA and

892
00:52:58,196 --> 00:53:01,236
Speaker 3: they really wanted to have Stevie back. And Stevie we

893
00:53:01,316 --> 00:53:04,836
Speaker 3: finished that first album, Music of My Mind, and he

894
00:53:04,996 --> 00:53:08,636
Speaker 3: wasn't assigned to Motown for that record. That was totally

895
00:53:10,356 --> 00:53:15,556
Speaker 3: and they really started agitating.

896
00:53:15,596 --> 00:53:15,796
Speaker 1: You know.

897
00:53:16,116 --> 00:53:20,996
Speaker 3: We came out, we said, with a place called Crystal Studios, which,

898
00:53:21,036 --> 00:53:25,476
Speaker 3: strangely enough, the husk of that building is just on

899
00:53:25,516 --> 00:53:28,676
Speaker 3: the other side of Santa Monica Boulevard and Vine. It's

900
00:53:28,756 --> 00:53:31,316
Speaker 3: just a few blocks from where I first landed in

901
00:53:31,476 --> 00:53:34,316
Speaker 3: La right there, right and.

902
00:53:34,196 --> 00:53:35,996
Speaker 1: Then wound record plant right.

903
00:53:36,196 --> 00:53:39,716
Speaker 3: Then then came the record plant and we couldn't stay

904
00:53:39,716 --> 00:53:43,116
Speaker 3: at Crystal because there was only one room and his

905
00:53:43,356 --> 00:53:47,356
Speaker 3: the main clients at Crystal an incredible recording console there

906
00:53:47,796 --> 00:53:51,436
Speaker 3: that Andrew Berltter built, which is to this day I

907
00:53:51,476 --> 00:53:54,396
Speaker 3: think sounds sounds still sounds better than anything that was

908
00:53:54,396 --> 00:53:56,116
Speaker 3: ever built to this day.

909
00:53:56,356 --> 00:53:56,676
Speaker 1: Wow.

910
00:53:57,276 --> 00:54:00,716
Speaker 3: Crystal sort of was home to the acoustic rock set.

911
00:54:00,836 --> 00:54:05,596
Speaker 3: I called him the Denizens of Laurel canyonk Okay. They

912
00:54:05,596 --> 00:54:08,236
Speaker 3: were all of those kind of folky James Taylor kind

913
00:54:08,276 --> 00:54:13,756
Speaker 3: of records. I loved it. I knew Jony you did. Yeah.

914
00:54:13,756 --> 00:54:15,916
Speaker 3: She used to come and listen to Stevie at Studio

915
00:54:16,036 --> 00:54:19,436
Speaker 3: B at the Record Plant on a couple of occasions. Wow.

916
00:54:19,556 --> 00:54:21,436
Speaker 3: And we went down to Fat Burger and had fat

917
00:54:21,476 --> 00:54:25,636
Speaker 3: burgers together and decided to stop smoking. And I went

918
00:54:25,676 --> 00:54:27,636
Speaker 3: to this place called the Shick Center. I don't know

919
00:54:27,636 --> 00:54:30,156
Speaker 3: whether she ever won or not, but I haven't picked

920
00:54:30,236 --> 00:54:32,516
Speaker 3: up a cigarette since so.

921
00:54:33,396 --> 00:54:35,716
Speaker 1: But at any rate, I think she's picked up since then.

922
00:54:35,756 --> 00:54:36,156
Speaker 1: I've seen.

923
00:54:36,796 --> 00:54:39,996
Speaker 3: What happened was we had a move because the place

924
00:54:40,356 --> 00:54:42,516
Speaker 3: that people were raising hell about us being in there

925
00:54:42,556 --> 00:54:45,556
Speaker 3: all the time, Stevie sucked up all the oxygen we

926
00:54:45,596 --> 00:54:48,516
Speaker 3: had tanto in there from these coaches. We brought it

927
00:54:48,556 --> 00:54:51,836
Speaker 3: out in a truck. It was there, you know, and

928
00:54:51,876 --> 00:54:53,476
Speaker 3: people were saying, Hey, how am I going to get

929
00:54:53,516 --> 00:54:57,476
Speaker 3: in and do my record? Steve is totally doing everything.

930
00:54:57,996 --> 00:55:02,276
Speaker 3: And when Malcolm first came to New York, he worked

931
00:55:02,316 --> 00:55:04,476
Speaker 3: at the Record Plant in New York for about six

932
00:55:04,516 --> 00:55:07,836
Speaker 3: weeks before we went to media, so he knew Chris

933
00:55:07,836 --> 00:55:09,956
Speaker 3: and Gary Gary Kelgrin.

934
00:55:10,076 --> 00:55:10,716
Speaker 1: Right.

935
00:55:10,956 --> 00:55:12,796
Speaker 3: So we got a call from Gary says, I hear

936
00:55:12,836 --> 00:55:16,796
Speaker 3: you guys are looking for a studio and we said yeah.

937
00:55:16,836 --> 00:55:19,156
Speaker 3: He says, come up and meet me at my house.

938
00:55:19,676 --> 00:55:22,196
Speaker 3: Sydney and Malcolm go up to his house which was

939
00:55:22,236 --> 00:55:25,076
Speaker 3: on Camino palm Ayrow. It's been torn down since then,

940
00:55:25,836 --> 00:55:28,276
Speaker 3: but it was the old Canadian Embassy and it looked

941
00:55:28,316 --> 00:55:31,516
Speaker 3: like something from a Charles Adams cartoon, like a big

942
00:55:31,596 --> 00:55:37,076
Speaker 3: haunted house, right, And he said, listen, you bring Stevie

943
00:55:37,116 --> 00:55:39,316
Speaker 3: for a year to the Record Plant. We'll build a

944
00:55:39,316 --> 00:55:42,596
Speaker 3: studio for you exactly the way you want it. We'll

945
00:55:42,596 --> 00:55:45,756
Speaker 3: do it completely and totally for Tonto and to have

946
00:55:45,836 --> 00:55:49,476
Speaker 3: Stevie there. And we couldn't say no to that, right.

947
00:55:50,236 --> 00:55:54,796
Speaker 3: So Gary brings out a bottle of cognac and he

948
00:55:54,876 --> 00:55:57,636
Speaker 3: pours everybody to drink, and we stand up and we

949
00:55:57,756 --> 00:56:01,036
Speaker 3: clink our glasses. And the minute the glasses clink together,

950
00:56:01,116 --> 00:56:04,716
Speaker 3: there was an earthquake. And the whole place is going

951
00:56:04,796 --> 00:56:07,756
Speaker 3: like this. And I looked into the kitchen through the

952
00:56:07,916 --> 00:56:10,556
Speaker 3: door from the dining room, and out the door of

953
00:56:10,556 --> 00:56:12,396
Speaker 3: the kitchen there was a swimming pool and there was

954
00:56:12,436 --> 00:56:15,796
Speaker 3: like a little tsunami in the swimming pool coming towards

955
00:56:15,836 --> 00:56:18,796
Speaker 3: the back door right, and the chandelier was going back

956
00:56:18,796 --> 00:56:24,076
Speaker 3: and forth like this. And I said, God has his

957
00:56:24,156 --> 00:56:27,996
Speaker 3: hand on our shoulder, man. And that's how he ended

958
00:56:28,076 --> 00:56:28,996
Speaker 3: up at the record plan.

959
00:56:29,196 --> 00:56:33,796
Speaker 1: Wow. How would Stevie usually bring songs in? Would he

960
00:56:33,836 --> 00:56:35,876
Speaker 1: come in and play them for you? Would he have

961
00:56:35,916 --> 00:56:36,836
Speaker 1: a demo tape?

962
00:56:38,036 --> 00:56:42,316
Speaker 3: No, not really. Sometimes he would improvise in the studio

963
00:56:42,356 --> 00:56:46,396
Speaker 3: and come up with the song directly. Sometimes he would

964
00:56:46,476 --> 00:56:48,796
Speaker 3: come in. He had like a little recording rig that

965
00:56:48,836 --> 00:56:50,876
Speaker 3: he kept in his hotel room or at his house.

966
00:56:51,916 --> 00:56:55,196
Speaker 3: Like I've never been to Stevie Wonder's house ever, not

967
00:56:55,356 --> 00:56:59,236
Speaker 3: in fifty years. Okay, I only know him as denizen

968
00:56:59,276 --> 00:57:04,996
Speaker 3: of the studio. He appears there. I have empathy, incredible

969
00:57:05,036 --> 00:57:08,396
Speaker 3: empathy with him, and we work in the studio and

970
00:57:08,476 --> 00:57:11,316
Speaker 3: the studio is over. We go our separate ways. We've

971
00:57:11,316 --> 00:57:13,996
Speaker 3: never had like a friendship friendship, do you know what

972
00:57:14,076 --> 00:57:17,516
Speaker 3: I'm saying. It's always been based around around the work.

973
00:57:17,836 --> 00:57:21,996
Speaker 1: So improvising in the studio would sometimes a certain sound

974
00:57:22,596 --> 00:57:24,796
Speaker 1: that you've programmed on Tanto sport.

975
00:57:25,356 --> 00:57:28,196
Speaker 3: It was like jazz. He would come up with a song,

976
00:57:28,276 --> 00:57:30,636
Speaker 3: we would come up with a sound, okay, and then

977
00:57:30,676 --> 00:57:32,796
Speaker 3: he'd say more of this, less that, and so on

978
00:57:32,836 --> 00:57:36,076
Speaker 3: and so forth, and generally we would create two or

979
00:57:36,116 --> 00:57:39,676
Speaker 3: three separate voices on separate keyboards. But they were all mono.

980
00:57:39,876 --> 00:57:42,076
Speaker 3: If you really listen to those records, and all the

981
00:57:42,116 --> 00:57:46,196
Speaker 3: records that I do, they're very simple. Okay, there's only

982
00:57:46,236 --> 00:57:50,556
Speaker 3: a few voices. There's no waterfalls, there's no stylistic big

983
00:57:51,116 --> 00:57:54,436
Speaker 3: key things. If there are keyboards, they're very simple, like

984
00:57:54,476 --> 00:57:57,476
Speaker 3: a Fender Rhodes or a clavinet, like a boogie on

985
00:57:57,516 --> 00:58:01,876
Speaker 3: reggae woman for example. Yes, okay, So if you listen

986
00:58:01,876 --> 00:58:04,156
Speaker 3: to the records, you'll see there are only a few voices.

987
00:58:04,836 --> 00:58:05,716
Speaker 1: And the simpler you.

988
00:58:05,716 --> 00:58:08,596
Speaker 3: Make the records, the closer you can make the record sound.

989
00:58:09,636 --> 00:58:12,196
Speaker 3: So I mean Steve was singing into an RI twenty

990
00:58:12,556 --> 00:58:14,396
Speaker 3: and the reason I like to use the R twenty

991
00:58:14,516 --> 00:58:17,436
Speaker 3: is you could touch the microphone without making any mic

992
00:58:17,516 --> 00:58:20,676
Speaker 3: noise because it was dynamic and you you wouldn't hear

993
00:58:20,716 --> 00:58:24,276
Speaker 3: the thumb. This is because being uncited, he had to

994
00:58:24,316 --> 00:58:28,156
Speaker 3: feel where the microphone was to singh. But it also

995
00:58:28,196 --> 00:58:31,316
Speaker 3: gave me this kind of really dry close sound that

996
00:58:31,396 --> 00:58:34,716
Speaker 3: Malcolm and I really loved. You know, I just wanted

997
00:58:34,716 --> 00:58:38,116
Speaker 3: to back up one please minute, Okay, I want to

998
00:58:38,156 --> 00:58:42,876
Speaker 3: talk about race relations and where we are now, which

999
00:58:42,916 --> 00:58:50,756
Speaker 3: is horrific. Okay, But like we mentioned earlier, Steve had

1000
00:58:50,796 --> 00:58:56,796
Speaker 3: a real understanding of around the fifties, late fifties, early sixties,

1001
00:58:57,436 --> 00:58:59,876
Speaker 3: Martin Luther King. As a matter of fact, Stevie was

1002
00:58:59,916 --> 00:59:03,076
Speaker 3: one who was behind getting Martin Luther King Day as

1003
00:59:03,116 --> 00:59:04,836
Speaker 3: an official American holiday.

1004
00:59:05,076 --> 00:59:05,276
Speaker 1: Right.

1005
00:59:05,836 --> 00:59:08,596
Speaker 3: I think the song that really did it for me

1006
00:59:09,156 --> 00:59:13,236
Speaker 3: with Steve and really sort of sign sealed and delivered

1007
00:59:13,756 --> 00:59:17,956
Speaker 3: me to his front door and really helped me make

1008
00:59:17,996 --> 00:59:22,076
Speaker 3: a deep emotional commitment to his work was a song

1009
00:59:22,156 --> 00:59:26,236
Speaker 3: called Living for the City. Yeah, okay, I was already

1010
00:59:26,356 --> 00:59:30,276
Speaker 3: deep inside of what was going down South and the

1011
00:59:30,276 --> 00:59:35,316
Speaker 3: integration and the bus boycotts and the little girls being

1012
00:59:35,436 --> 00:59:39,236
Speaker 3: escorted to school by armed marshals and stuff like that.

1013
00:59:39,516 --> 00:59:39,716
Speaker 1: Right.

1014
00:59:40,276 --> 00:59:42,596
Speaker 3: So, by the time we got with Stevie and he

1015
00:59:42,676 --> 00:59:47,276
Speaker 3: started writing songs about the black social condition, right, I

1016
00:59:47,436 --> 00:59:51,276
Speaker 3: really deeply identified with that. There were a lot of

1017
00:59:51,316 --> 00:59:55,276
Speaker 3: songs that Steve wrote that had these very very important

1018
00:59:55,316 --> 01:00:00,916
Speaker 3: and very key racial cues and understandings and his feelings

1019
01:00:00,956 --> 01:00:06,076
Speaker 3: about racism. And to this day I celebrate those same

1020
01:00:06,156 --> 01:00:08,836
Speaker 3: feelings of humanism and equality.

1021
01:00:09,316 --> 01:00:12,636
Speaker 1: It wasn't just the kind of was getting the music

1022
01:00:12,716 --> 01:00:14,516
Speaker 1: is making. It was the message as well, yes, all

1023
01:00:14,556 --> 01:00:14,676
Speaker 1: of it.

1024
01:00:14,756 --> 01:00:18,476
Speaker 3: The message of his songs. This I think was really

1025
01:00:18,556 --> 01:00:20,916
Speaker 3: sort of twang my heart, you know, it's sort of

1026
01:00:21,596 --> 01:00:24,636
Speaker 3: I really sort of understood it. And I knew as

1027
01:00:24,956 --> 01:00:29,436
Speaker 3: both being Jewish and gay, Okay, I understood the fact that,

1028
01:00:29,996 --> 01:00:34,476
Speaker 3: you know, he suffered also inequality by being black and blind.

1029
01:00:34,756 --> 01:00:35,876
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.

1030
01:00:35,996 --> 01:00:38,196
Speaker 3: And I always like to say, between the two of us,

1031
01:00:38,236 --> 01:00:42,116
Speaker 3: we had we had it all black, blind, Jewish and gay.

1032
01:00:42,516 --> 01:00:46,356
Speaker 3: We had everything going for us. Okay. You know, I'm

1033
01:00:46,396 --> 01:00:48,596
Speaker 3: not why, I don't have anything to hide on eighty

1034
01:00:48,636 --> 01:00:54,556
Speaker 3: three years old, who cares? But I understood the energy

1035
01:00:54,796 --> 01:01:00,316
Speaker 3: that Steve had toward the racial relationships and about humanity,

1036
01:01:00,876 --> 01:01:03,556
Speaker 3: and I think that many of his songs really relate

1037
01:01:03,636 --> 01:01:06,796
Speaker 3: to that, and I think that's what pushed my buttons

1038
01:01:06,876 --> 01:01:09,876
Speaker 3: more than anything else in his music. I mean, we

1039
01:01:09,876 --> 01:01:12,596
Speaker 3: could be inventive and crazy and do wonderful things and

1040
01:01:13,036 --> 01:01:16,796
Speaker 3: create sounds that never existed before. And it was sort

1041
01:01:16,796 --> 01:01:19,836
Speaker 3: of like electronica jazz, where we would make a sound.

1042
01:01:19,916 --> 01:01:22,076
Speaker 3: We didn't know what an instrument was. We couldn't call

1043
01:01:22,116 --> 01:01:25,156
Speaker 3: it a visor or that it was I don't know,

1044
01:01:25,236 --> 01:01:30,076
Speaker 3: something that existed only as vibrating electrons in space, and

1045
01:01:30,116 --> 01:01:32,076
Speaker 3: it would only be a sound after it fell out

1046
01:01:32,076 --> 01:01:33,076
Speaker 3: of the loudspeakers.

1047
01:01:33,556 --> 01:01:33,756
Speaker 1: Right.

1048
01:01:34,316 --> 01:01:36,596
Speaker 3: It was a different kind of a head.

1049
01:01:36,836 --> 01:01:39,876
Speaker 1: It's incredible, how I mean, given that you were working

1050
01:01:39,916 --> 01:01:43,036
Speaker 1: with these inorganic sounds. You know, like as you're saying,

1051
01:01:43,076 --> 01:01:46,076
Speaker 1: you can't place what the instrument is exactly, that doesn't exist.

1052
01:01:46,196 --> 01:01:48,036
Speaker 3: Well, they were organic, but we have to reach them

1053
01:01:48,036 --> 01:01:48,756
Speaker 3: a different way.

1054
01:01:49,116 --> 01:01:53,836
Speaker 1: You guys were speaking to the human experience while channeling

1055
01:01:53,956 --> 01:01:55,356
Speaker 1: sounds from I don't know.

1056
01:01:55,516 --> 01:01:59,956
Speaker 3: Well, we lived inside the sounds where we structured and

1057
01:01:59,996 --> 01:02:03,316
Speaker 3: built them. Sometimes we would start we wouldn't know where

1058
01:02:03,316 --> 01:02:06,316
Speaker 3: we were going to end up, but somehow it all

1059
01:02:06,356 --> 01:02:11,156
Speaker 3: fell together. It was a perfect union. Me, Malcolm and Steve.

1060
01:02:11,316 --> 01:02:14,556
Speaker 1: Be four and a half years together. How much music

1061
01:02:15,436 --> 01:02:17,196
Speaker 1: was recorded in those four and a half.

1062
01:02:17,116 --> 01:02:19,876
Speaker 3: I would say maybe about one hundred and fifty songs,

1063
01:02:19,996 --> 01:02:23,356
Speaker 3: maybe more. We had everything set up in the studio right,

1064
01:02:23,956 --> 01:02:27,116
Speaker 3: so when he sat down to play, he could just

1065
01:02:27,156 --> 01:02:28,836
Speaker 3: play and we recorded immediately.

1066
01:02:28,956 --> 01:02:29,116
Speaker 1: Right.

1067
01:02:29,636 --> 01:02:32,036
Speaker 3: It's time when we were working with Jeff Beck at

1068
01:02:32,036 --> 01:02:36,756
Speaker 3: the same time, and Jeff wanted a song for his album.

1069
01:02:36,956 --> 01:02:38,116
Speaker 1: He wanted maybe your Baby.

1070
01:02:38,276 --> 01:02:41,636
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, he wanted maybe your Baby. But somehow it

1071
01:02:41,716 --> 01:02:48,236
Speaker 3: turned to Superstition, and Steve had already had a demo,

1072
01:02:48,636 --> 01:02:50,636
Speaker 3: and he said, we can't have maybe your Baby because

1073
01:02:50,636 --> 01:02:53,276
Speaker 3: I wanted for my record. So he said, but I'll

1074
01:02:53,276 --> 01:02:57,596
Speaker 3: write you something and that was Superstition, which we had

1075
01:02:57,596 --> 01:03:01,316
Speaker 3: already begun tracking, but he Jeff played a demo of it.

1076
01:03:01,956 --> 01:03:05,036
Speaker 3: But Steve finished Superstition. But the interesting thing about it

1077
01:03:05,116 --> 01:03:08,836
Speaker 3: was we tracked Superstition. Steve wanted, he said, just put

1078
01:03:08,876 --> 01:03:11,596
Speaker 3: up the drums. We put up the drums. Steve walked

1079
01:03:11,596 --> 01:03:15,596
Speaker 3: into the studio, no guide vocal, no click track, nothing.

1080
01:03:15,716 --> 01:03:18,676
Speaker 3: Steve never played for the click track either. His head

1081
01:03:18,916 --> 01:03:22,756
Speaker 3: is a click track. And he sat down at the

1082
01:03:22,876 --> 01:03:25,396
Speaker 3: drums and he played for three and a half minutes

1083
01:03:25,476 --> 01:03:27,716
Speaker 3: and he came in and said, Okay, that's it. Let's

1084
01:03:27,716 --> 01:03:30,596
Speaker 3: put a bass part on this. And it turned into

1085
01:03:30,836 --> 01:03:33,796
Speaker 3: it turned into Superstition. The whole song was already in

1086
01:03:33,796 --> 01:03:34,236
Speaker 3: his head.

1087
01:03:34,396 --> 01:03:38,636
Speaker 1: The drum takes one take, one take. Wow. Was Stevie's

1088
01:03:38,676 --> 01:03:45,316
Speaker 1: final take of Superstition at all influenced by Beck's version?

1089
01:03:45,916 --> 01:03:47,316
Speaker 3: I honestly don't think so.

1090
01:03:47,516 --> 01:03:48,036
Speaker 1: You don't think so.

1091
01:03:48,276 --> 01:03:52,236
Speaker 3: I think they were very separate. When Barry Gordy heard

1092
01:03:52,316 --> 01:03:55,716
Speaker 3: the rough of Superstition is I recollect? He said, if

1093
01:03:55,756 --> 01:03:59,236
Speaker 3: you give that away, I'm going to raise hell. And

1094
01:03:59,316 --> 01:04:02,956
Speaker 3: that song turned out to be Stevie's first major hit record. Yeah,

1095
01:04:03,076 --> 01:04:05,356
Speaker 3: and we were very glad. Nobody wanted to give it

1096
01:04:05,396 --> 01:04:06,676
Speaker 3: to Jeff because of that.

1097
01:04:06,876 --> 01:04:08,596
Speaker 1: How did you feel when it became the hit that

1098
01:04:08,636 --> 01:04:10,036
Speaker 1: it became hearing it everywhere?

1099
01:04:10,036 --> 01:04:12,316
Speaker 3: And you know, I'll tell you something, I didn't really

1100
01:04:12,396 --> 01:04:15,636
Speaker 3: care if it wasn't in the studio coming out of

1101
01:04:15,676 --> 01:04:19,956
Speaker 3: the loud speakers. I had no opinion. Okay. I was

1102
01:04:19,996 --> 01:04:23,156
Speaker 3: not there to manage Stevie's career. I was not there

1103
01:04:23,236 --> 01:04:26,716
Speaker 3: to give Stevie any kind of advice when it comes

1104
01:04:26,716 --> 01:04:30,396
Speaker 3: to politics or dealing with the record label. I worked

1105
01:04:30,436 --> 01:04:33,876
Speaker 3: with and for Stevie Wonder, as did Malcolm, and we

1106
01:04:33,956 --> 01:04:37,196
Speaker 3: did what had to happen when it was eight bars

1107
01:04:37,236 --> 01:04:40,316
Speaker 3: long and it fell out of the loud speakers. That

1108
01:04:40,596 --> 01:04:44,116
Speaker 3: is where I lived, Okay, it was like architecture.

1109
01:04:44,796 --> 01:04:47,076
Speaker 1: Did you have any dealings with Barry Gordy or the

1110
01:04:47,116 --> 01:04:48,036
Speaker 1: label that did come.

1111
01:04:49,996 --> 01:04:54,436
Speaker 3: He was very interesting and tense guy had very specific ideas.

1112
01:04:55,116 --> 01:04:57,516
Speaker 3: He had come up with a very successful formula. He

1113
01:04:57,556 --> 01:05:00,916
Speaker 3: had a major record company. Everybody called him the chairman,

1114
01:05:01,076 --> 01:05:05,236
Speaker 3: not mister Gordy. Okay. He had a guy who was

1115
01:05:05,276 --> 01:05:08,956
Speaker 3: the president of the label called Ewart Abner and Abner.

1116
01:05:09,236 --> 01:05:11,796
Speaker 3: This little guy sort of looked like Sammy Davis Junior.

1117
01:05:12,476 --> 01:05:14,316
Speaker 3: And he always sat in this big office with this

1118
01:05:14,396 --> 01:05:17,556
Speaker 3: big high chair behind him with his sports jacket on

1119
01:05:17,636 --> 01:05:20,876
Speaker 3: the top of it. And I came in and showed

1120
01:05:20,956 --> 01:05:23,676
Speaker 3: them the pictures of a talking book that I took

1121
01:05:24,356 --> 01:05:26,276
Speaker 3: and he said, yeah, we like those. I'll give you

1122
01:05:26,316 --> 01:05:27,236
Speaker 3: three hundred bucks.

1123
01:05:29,156 --> 01:05:30,796
Speaker 1: So anyway, I had an agent with you.

1124
01:05:31,196 --> 01:05:33,156
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that record cover really worked.

1125
01:05:33,556 --> 01:05:36,396
Speaker 1: Did anyone try to pick you up after this? After

1126
01:05:36,476 --> 01:05:39,636
Speaker 1: you come out of the whirlwind of working with Stevie

1127
01:05:39,636 --> 01:05:40,996
Speaker 1: and you come out of that sort of well, we.

1128
01:05:40,956 --> 01:05:43,316
Speaker 3: Worked with guys like the Isley Brothers. We did three

1129
01:05:43,316 --> 01:05:46,276
Speaker 3: plus three, Fight the Power, all of that stuff with

1130
01:05:46,396 --> 01:05:49,516
Speaker 3: the Isley's. I went on to produce two albums with

1131
01:05:49,556 --> 01:05:50,716
Speaker 3: Billy Preston.

1132
01:05:50,596 --> 01:05:52,356
Speaker 1: So you were able to take some time and do

1133
01:05:52,476 --> 01:05:53,276
Speaker 1: those sorts of things.

1134
01:05:53,436 --> 01:05:55,276
Speaker 3: Yeah, we worked with the Isleys, but it was a

1135
01:05:55,276 --> 01:05:58,836
Speaker 3: different five. The Isleys already knew exactly what they wanted

1136
01:05:58,836 --> 01:06:01,876
Speaker 3: to record with the exception and maybe how a solo

1137
01:06:02,036 --> 01:06:06,636
Speaker 3: is gonna sound like Fight the Power? Who's that Lady?

1138
01:06:06,676 --> 01:06:11,076
Speaker 3: With a wonderful guitar solos, great Arnie stuff. Yeah, those solos.

1139
01:06:11,116 --> 01:06:14,796
Speaker 3: We did some very funny stuff to the guitar sounds

1140
01:06:15,436 --> 01:06:20,996
Speaker 3: with that we used. I think I used a Dolby encoder, right,

1141
01:06:21,396 --> 01:06:23,956
Speaker 3: but I only encoded it. I didn't decode it. I

1142
01:06:24,036 --> 01:06:28,156
Speaker 3: left it encoded because it made a really kind of

1143
01:06:28,276 --> 01:06:32,316
Speaker 3: raw sound with the fact so those lead lines were

1144
01:06:32,516 --> 01:06:35,956
Speaker 3: recorded through a Dolby but not decoded, and then mixed

1145
01:06:35,996 --> 01:06:38,676
Speaker 3: and limited afterwards, and that's how we got that kind

1146
01:06:38,676 --> 01:06:42,556
Speaker 3: of ripping solo sounds. Wow, we were doing stuff, yeah, wow.

1147
01:06:42,916 --> 01:06:46,036
Speaker 3: And of course you know Ernest Ernie Isley was a

1148
01:06:46,116 --> 01:06:49,316
Speaker 3: great guitar player who was this mentor and who lived

1149
01:06:49,316 --> 01:06:52,836
Speaker 3: at his house. Hendricks, Hendricks, h you knew that incredible,

1150
01:06:52,876 --> 01:06:53,636
Speaker 3: You know, your stuff.

1151
01:06:53,836 --> 01:06:57,156
Speaker 1: Was the experience of working with the Isley's as fulfilling

1152
01:06:57,196 --> 01:06:59,276
Speaker 1: as the work with TeV. I get the sense that,

1153
01:06:59,956 --> 01:07:02,676
Speaker 1: as you described, with Stevie being so all consuming, that

1154
01:07:02,756 --> 01:07:03,836
Speaker 1: maybe that was more.

1155
01:07:04,796 --> 01:07:09,636
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Isleys was more professional, quote unquote professional gig.

1156
01:07:10,036 --> 01:07:14,316
Speaker 3: They aren't interested in any production ideas from us. They

1157
01:07:14,356 --> 01:07:16,556
Speaker 3: had the songs prepared, they knew pretty much what they

1158
01:07:16,596 --> 01:07:19,436
Speaker 3: wanted to do. The scene one of the senior Isley's

1159
01:07:19,556 --> 01:07:21,876
Speaker 3: was sort of like a traffic coffee made sure everyone

1160
01:07:22,316 --> 01:07:25,396
Speaker 3: came to the studio on time. It was all very

1161
01:07:25,436 --> 01:07:30,876
Speaker 3: coordinated and you know, basically more of a classical engineering

1162
01:07:30,916 --> 01:07:33,876
Speaker 3: gig than anything that was really creative.

1163
01:07:33,436 --> 01:07:34,036
Speaker 1: On our part.

1164
01:07:34,276 --> 01:07:36,716
Speaker 3: We brought a lot of stuff we had worked on

1165
01:07:36,836 --> 01:07:39,796
Speaker 3: with Stevie to the table, which is what they wanted,

1166
01:07:40,476 --> 01:07:42,316
Speaker 3: all right. They liked this, say, they came to the

1167
01:07:42,356 --> 01:07:46,036
Speaker 3: studio when we were working with Steve to meet us, so,

1168
01:07:46,116 --> 01:07:48,556
Speaker 3: I mean it was all kind of friendly and everything.

1169
01:07:48,716 --> 01:07:51,876
Speaker 3: I can remember Michael Jackson coming to the studio to

1170
01:07:51,956 --> 01:07:56,516
Speaker 3: sing on the Stevie's Who's that Lady do? What?

1171
01:07:58,756 --> 01:07:58,996
Speaker 1: It was?

1172
01:07:59,236 --> 01:08:01,956
Speaker 3: Jackson five. I have a picture of it somewhere.

1173
01:08:02,196 --> 01:08:05,316
Speaker 1: Really yeah, because I don't think there's a that I

1174
01:08:05,396 --> 01:08:06,916
Speaker 1: know of a Stevie song, that mighty.

1175
01:08:06,796 --> 01:08:09,036
Speaker 3: Stevie song they came to sing.

1176
01:08:09,236 --> 01:08:10,916
Speaker 1: Or other Motown acts coming through.

1177
01:08:11,036 --> 01:08:13,036
Speaker 3: Oh you haven't done nothing. It was the song that

1178
01:08:13,196 --> 01:08:16,836
Speaker 3: Jackson sang on. Really yeah, you got to make a

1179
01:08:16,876 --> 01:08:17,636
Speaker 3: note on that one.

1180
01:08:17,836 --> 01:08:19,476
Speaker 1: I am, yeah.

1181
01:08:19,516 --> 01:08:20,316
Speaker 3: Are you having fun?

1182
01:08:20,476 --> 01:08:21,836
Speaker 1: I'm having I'm having a ball.

1183
01:08:22,156 --> 01:08:23,596
Speaker 3: Okay, that's what's important.

1184
01:08:23,716 --> 01:08:26,516
Speaker 1: Do you remember when Stevie almost died? Yes?

1185
01:08:26,596 --> 01:08:30,316
Speaker 3: I do. He We just finished the second album and

1186
01:08:31,876 --> 01:08:33,956
Speaker 3: I got a call said Steve was in a car

1187
01:08:33,996 --> 01:08:37,156
Speaker 3: accident and he's in a coma. I almost fell off

1188
01:08:37,196 --> 01:08:42,316
Speaker 3: the console. I mean, I was in shock. And he

1189
01:08:42,396 --> 01:08:46,916
Speaker 3: was unconscious for two weeks and he was in North Carolina.

1190
01:08:48,156 --> 01:08:51,836
Speaker 3: Malcolm and I got a call from the boss man,

1191
01:08:52,836 --> 01:08:57,116
Speaker 3: mister Gordie, the chairman, and he said, do you have

1192
01:08:57,196 --> 01:09:02,636
Speaker 3: access to Stevie's tapes? And we said yes, and he said,

1193
01:09:02,716 --> 01:09:06,316
Speaker 3: well could you finish when something happened to Steve? And

1194
01:09:06,396 --> 01:09:09,476
Speaker 3: I said no? And he said why? He said, because

1195
01:09:09,476 --> 01:09:14,916
Speaker 3: Steve specifically forbade us to give the tapes to nobody

1196
01:09:14,996 --> 01:09:19,556
Speaker 3: if they're not complete ad masters, because we worked for Steve.

1197
01:09:19,676 --> 01:09:22,036
Speaker 3: We didn't work from Motown. We were not their employees,

1198
01:09:23,636 --> 01:09:26,516
Speaker 3: and we had to tell him no. And I remember that.

1199
01:09:27,556 --> 01:09:30,956
Speaker 3: And then Steve was God for about a month and

1200
01:09:31,036 --> 01:09:34,556
Speaker 3: we were working and doing other projects and stuff. And

1201
01:09:34,596 --> 01:09:37,316
Speaker 3: he came back and he was a little different after that.

1202
01:09:37,956 --> 01:09:41,956
Speaker 3: I think he learned about his own mortality. He received

1203
01:09:41,956 --> 01:09:46,756
Speaker 3: a very serious blow to the head, and I think

1204
01:09:46,756 --> 01:09:50,596
Speaker 3: it changed his perspective on his life. I really do.

1205
01:09:51,116 --> 01:09:55,196
Speaker 3: He wasn't the same kind of super embulent, kind of

1206
01:09:55,876 --> 01:09:58,956
Speaker 3: having a sense of humor about a lot of things.

1207
01:09:59,196 --> 01:10:03,796
Speaker 3: He was a lot more serious, you know. He was

1208
01:10:03,956 --> 01:10:09,676
Speaker 3: just more somber. Yeah. Well, here's it's the picture of

1209
01:10:09,716 --> 01:10:12,636
Speaker 3: Stevie's wreck car right here if you want to see.

1210
01:10:12,756 --> 01:10:17,356
Speaker 1: Oh wow, did you know that it was his cousin

1211
01:10:17,436 --> 01:10:18,436
Speaker 1: driving it? Did you know that?

1212
01:10:19,796 --> 01:10:23,076
Speaker 3: Let me look here, I'll read you something. We were

1213
01:10:23,196 --> 01:10:26,196
Speaker 3: just taking the completed album of inter Visions into Mastery

1214
01:10:26,276 --> 01:10:31,196
Speaker 3: when disaster struck on August sixth, nineteen seventy three, while

1215
01:10:31,196 --> 01:10:33,796
Speaker 3: he was on the road on an overnight drive to Durham,

1216
01:10:33,796 --> 01:10:37,316
Speaker 3: North Carolina. Stevie was sitting in the right front seat

1217
01:10:37,636 --> 01:10:40,476
Speaker 3: listening to a mix of the inner Vision's album when

1218
01:10:40,476 --> 01:10:43,756
Speaker 3: a stray log dislodged from a lumber truck driving in

1219
01:10:43,796 --> 01:10:47,156
Speaker 3: front of them, striking Stevie in the head. He was

1220
01:10:47,156 --> 01:10:49,516
Speaker 3: in a coma for five days and spent two weeks

1221
01:10:49,916 --> 01:10:53,596
Speaker 3: in the Winston Salem hospital. It was several months before

1222
01:10:53,676 --> 01:10:57,836
Speaker 3: Stevie made a full recovery. The accident changed him. He

1223
01:10:57,876 --> 01:11:00,236
Speaker 3: came out with a higher consciousness that comes with a

1224
01:11:00,276 --> 01:11:04,236
Speaker 3: near death experience. Stevie said when he returned to the studio,

1225
01:11:04,676 --> 01:11:07,756
Speaker 3: I was definitely in a much better spiritual place that

1226
01:11:07,916 --> 01:11:10,476
Speaker 3: made me aware of many things that concern my life

1227
01:11:10,556 --> 01:11:14,956
Speaker 3: and future. He seemed more somber, more introspective, which I

1228
01:11:15,036 --> 01:11:18,236
Speaker 3: think showed in fulfilling this first finale. And as it

1229
01:11:18,316 --> 01:11:22,236
Speaker 3: turned out, it was to be our final finale with Stevie.

1230
01:11:23,636 --> 01:11:26,996
Speaker 1: But it's supposed to be a two part record, correct.

1231
01:11:26,836 --> 01:11:33,636
Speaker 3: Yes, correct, I don't know. Lowtown was very against doing

1232
01:11:33,756 --> 01:11:36,876
Speaker 3: two album records because of shipping issues, and you go on,

1233
01:11:36,956 --> 01:11:39,556
Speaker 3: they could put half as many records in the case

1234
01:11:40,076 --> 01:11:42,196
Speaker 3: because there was two records in the thingy.

1235
01:11:42,916 --> 01:11:43,196
Speaker 1: You know.

1236
01:11:43,276 --> 01:11:46,476
Speaker 3: They were all crazy. Because I wanted to in talking book,

1237
01:11:46,516 --> 01:11:48,876
Speaker 3: I came up with the idea of putting a braille

1238
01:11:49,476 --> 01:11:52,036
Speaker 3: on the cover. It made the records fatter and they

1239
01:11:52,076 --> 01:11:56,476
Speaker 3: had to put one less record in the case of records,

1240
01:11:56,556 --> 01:11:58,596
Speaker 3: so they gave a static on that.

1241
01:11:58,836 --> 01:12:02,036
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you have to re sequence fa failings his

1242
01:12:02,116 --> 01:12:02,636
Speaker 1: first finale?

1243
01:12:02,796 --> 01:12:05,676
Speaker 3: No, the thing is about sequencing with Steve. If you

1244
01:12:05,796 --> 01:12:08,876
Speaker 3: notice the records sort of blend one into another, right,

1245
01:12:09,516 --> 01:12:12,756
Speaker 3: that was long before the DJs came up with that concept.

1246
01:12:13,076 --> 01:12:15,276
Speaker 3: Malcolm and I Steve would do. We'd all sit at

1247
01:12:15,316 --> 01:12:18,796
Speaker 3: the console together, rehearse everything and do one side completely.

1248
01:12:19,236 --> 01:12:21,276
Speaker 3: But in order to do something like that, you had

1249
01:12:21,276 --> 01:12:23,836
Speaker 3: to really relate the keys from one song to the

1250
01:12:23,876 --> 01:12:26,956
Speaker 3: next song that the keys would work, and also the

1251
01:12:26,996 --> 01:12:30,276
Speaker 3: tempos would work as well, because the temples had to

1252
01:12:30,316 --> 01:12:33,116
Speaker 3: be exactly right on and beat. So we had to

1253
01:12:33,156 --> 01:12:36,276
Speaker 3: rehearsal of that. We used three machines to mix those

1254
01:12:36,356 --> 01:12:39,356
Speaker 3: records down and they were all done live like that,

1255
01:12:39,436 --> 01:12:42,596
Speaker 3: and we would rehearse everything. Steve bea, Malcolm would all

1256
01:12:42,636 --> 01:12:44,796
Speaker 3: sit at the console together and we'd each have our

1257
01:12:45,236 --> 01:12:48,716
Speaker 3: stereo faders and everybody knew we put for me a Malcolm,

1258
01:12:48,756 --> 01:12:52,476
Speaker 3: we put China markers on the faders so we knew

1259
01:12:52,516 --> 01:12:56,196
Speaker 3: where everything was completely rehearsed. You should get it three

1260
01:12:56,276 --> 01:12:59,116
Speaker 3: or four times, but all those albums were mixed like that,

1261
01:12:59,276 --> 01:13:04,596
Speaker 3: down like that, with the segues, the correct segues. Although

1262
01:13:04,636 --> 01:13:08,316
Speaker 3: I can recollect a lot of little details, I honestly

1263
01:13:08,396 --> 01:13:11,556
Speaker 3: don't know what the heck happened. Okay. It was so

1264
01:13:11,876 --> 01:13:17,636
Speaker 3: self realizing and so internalized that we lived, aid and

1265
01:13:17,796 --> 01:13:21,836
Speaker 3: breathed Stevie. Okay, we were totally a part of some

1266
01:13:22,156 --> 01:13:27,196
Speaker 3: kind of organic entity and had a force field around it.

1267
01:13:27,636 --> 01:13:31,196
Speaker 3: Nobody fucked with us. People left us alone. Toward the

1268
01:13:31,316 --> 01:13:34,076
Speaker 3: end of it, when we were out here, when we

1269
01:13:34,076 --> 01:13:36,836
Speaker 3: were recording here and Steve had already signed this deal,

1270
01:13:37,316 --> 01:13:40,356
Speaker 3: that's when people from Motown really started meddling and getting

1271
01:13:40,436 --> 01:13:44,436
Speaker 3: in the way of our relationship. And we were slowly

1272
01:13:44,796 --> 01:13:48,036
Speaker 3: at that point being deemphasized by the label. That's why

1273
01:13:48,076 --> 01:13:51,596
Speaker 3: there was no credits on the Grammy wins thanking us

1274
01:13:51,636 --> 01:13:54,316
Speaker 3: for giving us any credit on the thank yous that

1275
01:13:54,356 --> 01:13:57,196
Speaker 3: appeared in the trade papers, and that's when we realized that.

1276
01:13:57,756 --> 01:14:00,516
Speaker 3: I think it was Motown, not Steve in any way,

1277
01:14:01,236 --> 01:14:03,476
Speaker 3: But I think there were people at Motown who didn't

1278
01:14:03,516 --> 01:14:08,196
Speaker 3: want us around. They wanted black folks, basically, and I

1279
01:14:08,236 --> 01:14:11,876
Speaker 3: think that that was and I'm not casting dispersions of

1280
01:14:11,876 --> 01:14:15,596
Speaker 3: them because I really understand the need for an identity

1281
01:14:15,996 --> 01:14:18,076
Speaker 3: in what was going on. But a lot of people

1282
01:14:18,156 --> 01:14:22,316
Speaker 3: didn't realize and nor did we, including me and Stevie

1283
01:14:22,316 --> 01:14:25,716
Speaker 3: and Malcolm, really knew about that kind of energy. I

1284
01:14:25,756 --> 01:14:30,036
Speaker 3: think it was more outside, but it started to really

1285
01:14:30,116 --> 01:14:32,476
Speaker 3: great on us at the end, and I think that's

1286
01:14:32,556 --> 01:14:35,036
Speaker 3: part of the reason we went our separate ways. Otherwise

1287
01:14:35,076 --> 01:14:37,916
Speaker 3: we would still be there twenty five years later, and

1288
01:14:38,356 --> 01:14:40,916
Speaker 3: we changed the world a little bit, and for that,

1289
01:14:41,116 --> 01:14:43,396
Speaker 3: I have great gratitude for that.

1290
01:14:43,716 --> 01:14:46,876
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for making those records.

1291
01:14:47,436 --> 01:14:50,276
Speaker 3: You're very welcome. I'm glad I was able to do it.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for Wesley Morris for talking about his

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01:14:55,756 --> 01:14:58,436
Speaker 1: latest projects, The Wonder If Stevie be sure to check

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01:14:58,476 --> 01:15:00,956
Speaker 1: that out on Audible. And thanks so much to Robert

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01:15:00,956 --> 01:15:04,396
Speaker 1: Margolev for sharing his creative history with Stevie Wonder. It's

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01:15:04,476 --> 01:15:06,716
Speaker 1: so insane to build the toxinbody who worked that closely

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01:15:06,756 --> 01:15:10,036
Speaker 1: and intimately with Steve. He just blew my mind. You

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01:15:10,036 --> 01:15:12,236
Speaker 1: can hear all of our favorite songs from that classics

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01:15:12,276 --> 01:15:15,116
Speaker 1: GDU period, along with some other works of Robert Margolves

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01:15:15,156 --> 01:15:19,076
Speaker 1: on a playlist at broken Record podcast dot com. Subscribe

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01:15:19,116 --> 01:15:21,916
Speaker 1: to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken

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01:15:21,956 --> 01:15:24,876
Speaker 1: Record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes.

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01:15:25,676 --> 01:15:28,116
Speaker 1: Also be sure to follow us on Instagram at the

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01:15:28,156 --> 01:15:31,916
Speaker 1: Broken Record Pod. Broken Record is produced by Leah Rose,

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01:15:32,076 --> 01:15:34,676
Speaker 1: with marketing and help from Marek Sandler and Jordan McMillan.

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01:15:35,076 --> 01:15:38,756
Speaker 1: Ben Holliday is our engineer. Broken Record is a production

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01:15:38,836 --> 01:15:41,276
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others

1308
01:15:41,276 --> 01:15:44,916
Speaker 1: from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is

1309
01:15:44,956 --> 01:15:47,836
Speaker 1: a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and act free

1310
01:15:47,916 --> 01:15:50,596
Speaker 1: listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushman

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01:15:50,636 --> 01:15:53,676
Speaker 1: Plus and at the podcast subscriptions and if you like

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01:15:53,756 --> 01:15:56,396
Speaker 1: this show, please remember to share, rate, review us on

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01:15:56,396 --> 01:15:59,236
Speaker 1: your podcast app and share it with friends. Our theme

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Speaker 1: music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.