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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of The Hunting Collective.

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Speaker 1: I'm Ben O'Brien and this week I'm joined by a

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Speaker 1: lot of an eagle, the great honest but tell us

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Speaker 1: in the Meat Eater Incorporated Office here in Bozeman, Montana,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to have a conversation in this episode

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Speaker 1: about ethics, really just Q and A about ethics. Everybody

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Speaker 1: out there listening. We asked you to to send us

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Speaker 1: some questions or quandaries around ethical situations and hunting and

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Speaker 1: you and you did that in spades, and we really

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Speaker 1: appreciate that. Man. There was a lot of responses. We

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Speaker 1: couldn't get to them all, but I think we got

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Speaker 1: some good ones. And the reason why I think Yanni

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Speaker 1: is the best to tackle some of these quandaries is

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Speaker 1: the fact that there's not a whole lot of fluff

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Speaker 1: where the eagle is involved. He kind of says what

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Speaker 1: he means and means what he says. There's not a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of extra burbage in there, and that's why

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Speaker 1: I like about the eagle. So hopefully you enjoyed this

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Speaker 1: episode on in Collective featuring Yeah, I need to tell us,

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Speaker 1: all right, what are you saying again, I was saying

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Speaker 1: that you and I were taking deep breaths getting ready

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Speaker 1: to start podcasting and talking. And uh, it reminded me

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Speaker 1: that listened to a Ted talk. I didn't watch it,

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Speaker 1: and I just listened, and the gal studied about it

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Speaker 1: was basically like human um body posture and like the

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Speaker 1: sort of endorphins that your body creates as you're in

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Speaker 1: different postures and like though and and then she compared

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Speaker 1: like male postures and female postures the postures that I'm

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Speaker 1: in right now with like the feet kicked up on

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Speaker 1: the table and you aren't your hands blocked, your fingers

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Speaker 1: locked behind your arm, elbows out to the side. She

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Speaker 1: called that like the president like or something like that.

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Speaker 1: And there's all these pictures of like Obama and Bush

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Speaker 1: and dude body is like at their desk, feet kicked

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Speaker 1: up and it's a very powerful posture, right, she was saying.

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Speaker 1: So there's the test that she did, and it's remarkable

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Speaker 1: to listen to this. Like she people were going into

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Speaker 1: an interview and some people were just sat in the

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Speaker 1: interview room um curled over their phones doing whatever, you know,

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Speaker 1: hunched over. The other people were asked to like for

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Speaker 1: two minutes going to the other room and basically stand

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Speaker 1: around like superman like, arms crossed, chest, pumped out, legs,

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Speaker 1: kind of spread out, stretch your arms, do some stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. And like it's like everybody that did that

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Speaker 1: just scored exponentially better by doing that one simple thing.

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Speaker 1: That it's a confidence thing. Yeah, because like whatever, I

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Speaker 1: forget the endorphin, a chemical whatever that was released in

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Speaker 1: your body. But and again it goes. And she was

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Speaker 1: comparing it to the male versus female thing that in

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Speaker 1: like a classroom setting, it's males assume those postures much

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Speaker 1: more often, And she was and that might be a

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Speaker 1: big reason that why in a classroom mail might jump

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Speaker 1: up and answer a question faster, sooner, or just feel

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Speaker 1: more confident to do that in the first place. Well,

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Speaker 1: now I feel a little a little conscious about my

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Speaker 1: posture right now. I'm a little uncomfortable moving back and

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Speaker 1: forth in my chair. Well, now, I always started, I

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Speaker 1: always look at other people. Now I'm like, it's been

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Speaker 1: exhibiting a presidential posture or is he leading over his phone?

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Speaker 1: Like yeahs in the basement, are you confident over there?

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Speaker 1: I'm relaxed. I'm relaxed. I don't feel we should be. Man,

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Speaker 1: it's two pm on a Friday and snowing, we're watching

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Speaker 1: it come white outside. Uh, you know, the weeks over,

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Speaker 1: we both I think we both really kicked ask this week.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah, I think you did well. You

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Speaker 1: went at the at the cookbook launch event downtown Bozeman.

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Speaker 1: You signed boy a couple I think it was uppards,

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Speaker 1: you know, seventy five books. I think you signs. Took

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Speaker 1: a couple of pictures with some fans. We had fans

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Speaker 1: man from New Jersey. Yeah. Man, those guys came up

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Speaker 1: to me, They're like, oh, I was. We were on

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Speaker 1: the plane from you know wherever, from d C. I

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Speaker 1: was like, what you came that far? Oh yeah, we

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Speaker 1: came from New Jersey. I think they might have came

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Speaker 1: there ironical because of the cat lady comment you never

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Speaker 1: know we're going we're going there. But yeah, they just

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Speaker 1: came for just that event. And they were like, so,

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Speaker 1: what else you guys do? And they said, we're karaoke

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Speaker 1: last night. They said they tore it up. Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: we tore it up here. Yeah. I was like, everybody

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Speaker 1: sings along with that song. That's the perfect karaoke song,

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Speaker 1: you know, what man, I'm ashamed, but I'm not. I'm

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Speaker 1: not like a really good music guy. But like, I've

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Speaker 1: heard of that song, but I can't right now think,

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Speaker 1: oh I've seen that, that's that one, that's the Queen. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm probably wrong, somebody proud of myself. I was probably

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Speaker 1: way wrong, but I think that I'm I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: that's right. I've often had h right in if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 1: right in po Box one to I still don't have

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Speaker 1: I don't have that Peo box set up. Gotta get

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Speaker 1: that going. Um, how's everything else going, Johnnie? I mean

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Speaker 1: you're traveling around a lot filming season eight of Meat

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Speaker 1: Either TV, launching a pretty fantabulous cookbook that you were

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Speaker 1: a primary part of, and a new company. What's just

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Speaker 1: lay out there? Lay it out there? Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: you're hitting the nail on the head, and now I'm

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Speaker 1: asked to look to the future and think of other

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Speaker 1: big ideas that we can act upon. Ye. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got some stuff up my sleeve. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I'm willing, I'm ready. Yeah, but there's some things

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Speaker 1: thanks working on that are outside of what everybody's used

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Speaker 1: to reading or listening to but yeah, man, exciting times

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Speaker 1: over here, very much is very much content creators almost weekly. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: we're we're cranking out. You know, if you're listening to this,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to the media dot com. Shame on you,

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Speaker 1: your bastards. Uh, there's been a lot of good reading

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Speaker 1: on There's Pat Durkin's article on Dirk deer p Dirk

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Speaker 1: p oh you said, pe Dirk calling pete um But yeah,

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Speaker 1: what what deer smell? That was good? Like article about

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Speaker 1: uh killing or not to kill Marlon? Yeah. No, Pat's

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Speaker 1: got two more pieces coming out of fact. One just

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Speaker 1: went live today on how dear smell and how we

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Speaker 1: try to fool them and then we probably never really

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Speaker 1: fooled them. But he also had one on deer vision.

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Speaker 1: You know, Mark Kenyans did a lot of stuff around

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Speaker 1: the rud white Tail lockdown. You know, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: looking good over there. I think we're working on it.

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Speaker 1: We'll get there, keeping it fresh, keeping it Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think we're keeping it real though as well. It's real

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Speaker 1: hot tip offs. I can't believe how many people were like,

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Speaker 1: you gotta do this with a hot tipoff? Are you

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Speaker 1: gotta do that with a hot tip off. And I

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Speaker 1: can't believe that Steve's always one of those hot tip offs.

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Speaker 1: You're a hot tip officer, always way better Steve just

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Speaker 1: he's got the gravy toss and he's got he knows

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Speaker 1: he's the boss. That's why I's winning. Like he's got

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Speaker 1: all the he's got all the cards, tacks in your

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Speaker 1: in his face. Man. People always are like, dude, you're

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Speaker 1: always taking a high tip. You know. I'm like you, guys,

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Speaker 1: haven't gotta understand that this is my job and if

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Speaker 1: my job requires a little bit of that, and the

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Speaker 1: rest of my job is what it is, and I'm

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Speaker 1: very happy and play along. I am exactly the same

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Speaker 1: way man, and my former the job I had prior

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Speaker 1: to this one, it was very much too identify folks

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Speaker 1: like Steve and other people that are very influential and

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Speaker 1: support them in their relationship with the Jettie. And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't like I wasn't the guy doing all the I

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Speaker 1: wasn't the ambassador. I was the guy supporting those bucks.

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Speaker 1: Super fun to do. It's not always fun to be

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Speaker 1: the guy in front. Sometimes it's nice to be exactly

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Speaker 1: standing next to the guy. People. It's easy I think

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Speaker 1: people do recognize that, but it's also easy to forget.

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Speaker 1: Man that that the limelight. Uh it's not quite twenty

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Speaker 1: four seven, but I think it's he says his name

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Speaker 1: with the Internet. It's like he's getting to be that way.

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Speaker 1: And um, it's a lot of pressure and you can't

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Speaker 1: turn it off. You can't just choose to turn it off,

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Speaker 1: especially when you're you know, when your life is wrapped

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Speaker 1: up and you can't be like I just I'd like

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Speaker 1: to get out of there until you drop, Mike drop,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's what you need to turn it off.

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Speaker 1: But you can all do that. Yeah, but I don't

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Speaker 1: feel like Steve is doing that or how I'm doing that,

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Speaker 1: or you're doing that anytime soon. Maybe eventually, But it's

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Speaker 1: too easy to sit in the room and talk. Let's

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Speaker 1: do what quick shot out of a canon hot tip

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Speaker 1: off snow related hunting hot to snow related. This is

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Speaker 1: like the maybe the new hot tips spontaneous hot tip

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Speaker 1: off planning snow related. What the things you do in

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Speaker 1: the snow? Was some snow last week in Michigan. I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to think what it would be a hot tip

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Speaker 1: tip cold in the tree stand, you know, uh, it

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Speaker 1: almost burned me. It didn't. But you know, if it's snowing,

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Speaker 1: or if it is the snow is melting, be careful

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Speaker 1: how long you wait to blood trail um because I

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Speaker 1: did that and ended up waiting like a couple three

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Speaker 1: hours just because we had some other stuff going on.

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Speaker 1: It was cool. I didn't think that, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: no real need to go blood show immediately. And then

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Speaker 1: we started on the blood trail. And then because it

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Speaker 1: had snowed a little bit more, but more it had

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Speaker 1: been melting, that it was starting to get hard to

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Speaker 1: follow that blood trail. So be aware, you know, be

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Speaker 1: aware of that. Yeah, my only real hot tip around

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Speaker 1: that is make sure everybody's you know, just doing all days. Sit,

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Speaker 1: be limber, stand up, stretch your freaking shoulders, stretch, make

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Speaker 1: sure you're moving. Don't be moving around too much that

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Speaker 1: the deer might spot you. But every once, every couple

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Speaker 1: of hours, stand up and stretch it out. Draw your

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Speaker 1: bow maybe if you need to be careful not to

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Speaker 1: dry fire the thing, but make sure when you stand

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Speaker 1: up your muscles aren't so tall, you know, aren't so

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Speaker 1: stiff that you can't draw your bow smoothly, because then

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Speaker 1: you get around the tree. Oh man. When I was

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Speaker 1: doing it, and I know it definitely could have cost me.

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Speaker 1: But any deer that came through, if it wasn't well

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Speaker 1: it was there was not the buck or whatever I

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Speaker 1: was trying to shoot at, I would try to draw

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Speaker 1: on it. Yeah. Yeah, that could be dangerous. And you

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Speaker 1: definitely come and then you look back and there's you know,

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Speaker 1: a big boy. But um, it's good to do because

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Speaker 1: I just feel like that what you gain from doing

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Speaker 1: that it almost outweighs like the risk you're taken because

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Speaker 1: you do it. And also you realize like, oh I

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Speaker 1: didn't see that limb there earlier, that I really can't

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Speaker 1: take this shot, or or when can I Like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the deer's coming from he's coming in into the wind.

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Speaker 1: I'm safe. He's coming right down this trail way, you know,

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Speaker 1: So I draw here, Oh I draw right back into

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Speaker 1: the camera guy, or I draw right back into a

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Speaker 1: limb that's right at this angle. So if you do that,

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Speaker 1: if you've I always you know, have my shooting lanes,

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Speaker 1: and I always draw to each shooting lane, so I

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Speaker 1: kind of have an idea of oh, here he comes,

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Speaker 1: I'm drawn to the shooting lane and it becomes different.

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Speaker 1: I can always move, but at least I know kind

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Speaker 1: of like what that motion looks like. And if it's

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Speaker 1: not banging my elbow and a freaking you know, on

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Speaker 1: a hook or something and make a noise, that's my

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Speaker 1: hot tip. That's good. It's a good hot tip. Man.

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Speaker 1: I was doing some of that last week in the cold. Um.

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Speaker 1: I was doing air squats. I think I call him

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Speaker 1: air squads. Is an air squat just doing a squad

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Speaker 1: with no weight? Yeah, yeah, okay, so I was doing

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Speaker 1: the sets of thirty. I felt like that would really

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Speaker 1: bump up my cored tampa plus your core temps going. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so if you're sitting there, you can get I would

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Speaker 1: get to the point where I'd be like, okay, it's

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Speaker 1: eleven o'clock, it's snow in a rain or it's getting

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Speaker 1: super cold, and get my phone out kind of like

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Speaker 1: get myself, you know, have some soup, do a little

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Speaker 1: like one hour phone session so I can my mind

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Speaker 1: can settle and um get a little stimulation. And then

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Speaker 1: you know, even after an hour an hour and a half,

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Speaker 1: you stand back up and you're like you're stiff. And

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Speaker 1: I had that happened in Illinois, like three or four

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Speaker 1: years ago. I was shooting one of those. Uh so

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Speaker 1: I shooting like the bow tech maybe insanity as a

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Speaker 1: super harsh turnover. The draw cycles were rough, and I

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Speaker 1: had a a buck come down the strange to my right,

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Speaker 1: and I had to turn my entire body because I

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Speaker 1: was kind of the trees day was facing off to

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Speaker 1: the left, turn my entire body and draw across my body.

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Speaker 1: And I was so stiff I could barely do it.

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Speaker 1: And I and I there was one I got about

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Speaker 1: half half draw and had let down and then shift

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Speaker 1: my body so I could get a solid drawn. I'm

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Speaker 1: doing all that other there's a buck of fifty yards

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Speaker 1: rather than just being a folds drawn and killing the thing.

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Speaker 1: So hot tips. Yeah, there's no one here that can

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Speaker 1: choose the winner. Spontaneous hot tips right into the right

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Speaker 1: in tell us the winner, I'll choose. You think that

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Speaker 1: was a pretty good one. I'm pretty confident it was

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Speaker 1: a little bit more cold related. Yeah, but you know

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Speaker 1: you've been living in Texas last few years. I'll give

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Speaker 1: you a path. Yeah. Yeah, Actually I could do like

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Speaker 1: rattlesnake related hot tips. I'd have none for that. Um, okay,

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Speaker 1: here's what we're gonna do. Ethics. Hunting ethics, I think um.

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Speaker 1: On this podcast in particular and also in the media podcast,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of conversation around hunting ethics and generally

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Speaker 1: situational hunting ethics, like what happens in this situation? What

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Speaker 1: do I do? And so I, uh, if days ago

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Speaker 1: asked for folks on the Instagram to submit some stuff,

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Speaker 1: So we go over to Yanni, are you prepared to

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Speaker 1: go over some ethical quandaries? I am. I'm actually googling

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Speaker 1: ethics definition so that we can. I think that's a

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Speaker 1: good yes, that's a good starting point, a baseline of

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about. What do you got? Two definitions?

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Speaker 1: Moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting

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Speaker 1: of an activity, and to be the branch of knowledge

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Speaker 1: the deals with moral principles. I like that moral principles

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about. And I guess hunting be being

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Speaker 1: the killing of another living thing. It's pretty fraught with

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Speaker 1: moral an ethical quadries and principles both. So this will

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Speaker 1: be a good conversation. Um, We've got a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: so we'll see how many we can get through. But

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Speaker 1: I will start by saying thanks to everybody that that

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Speaker 1: wrote in and and uh, I'd like to lead with

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Speaker 1: the light one if you don't mind the honnie please. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This came from Calm Pete. He says, is it okay

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Speaker 1: to say hunting is fun anymore? What is your thoughts

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Speaker 1: um ethically speaking? For sure? I don't really know if

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Speaker 1: that's even an ethics or moral question, but I think

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Speaker 1: it is. I think the way you pose it is

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Speaker 1: not necessarily an ethical question, but I think ethically it's

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Speaker 1: presenting yourself as an ethical hunter. How much, how much joy,

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Speaker 1: how much fun can you display? That's what he's probably getting.

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Speaker 1: Is it ethical from a hunting stampoint you display how

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Speaker 1: much fun you're having when you're putting yourself out there

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Speaker 1: to the public. Well, it's good a point out too

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Speaker 1: before we get into that. Back to morals and ethics

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Speaker 1: is that they're always personal, of course, right you know,

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Speaker 1: like your community, your family, your community sorts sort of

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Speaker 1: gives you the outline of what they should probably be.

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Speaker 1: You in the end have to decide what they're going

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Speaker 1: to be, and they're always determined by your experiences, your perspectives,

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Speaker 1: your value systems. Like you said that are either instilled

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Speaker 1: in you or vices you developed through you know, your life,

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Speaker 1: life experience experiences. So I think this question is more

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Speaker 1: of a little bit more about how like you know

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Speaker 1: someone else is going to judge you. Yeah, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: But I think in general there's some ethics and hunting

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Speaker 1: around how you display it just because of the situation

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Speaker 1: where you know. But uh, for me personally, I definitely

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Speaker 1: talk about hunting and use the word fun death on everything,

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Speaker 1: almost everything about it. The killing itself is not always

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Speaker 1: fun um. Sometimes it can feel good, sometimes it can

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Speaker 1: feel bad. But for the most part, Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: it's totally okay to do that as But again that's

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Speaker 1: like he that's way too simple of an answer, because

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Speaker 1: you can go nuts with fun and turn it into

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Speaker 1: like a circus. And I don't think that's really cool

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Speaker 1: to apply that to the hunting. Well, I think it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's some Yeah. Again, it gets back to the

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Speaker 1: person by person. Think, if you know that you're a

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Speaker 1: very emotional person by nature, hunting is going to bring

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Speaker 1: that out of your times too, because you've just done

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Speaker 1: you know, if you if you just talk about specifically

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Speaker 1: about the killing of the thing, is that fun or not.

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Speaker 1: I think that's probably what old Colum Pete's getting that too.

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Speaker 1: Is it ethically? Am I like, is my if I

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Speaker 1: moral principle that is that I have fun while killing

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Speaker 1: an animal? Or killing an animal is fun to me?

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Speaker 1: Is that morally sound like to be able to say that?

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Speaker 1: You know? And I would say, like, don't The killing

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Speaker 1: of the animal should be part of the process, but

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Speaker 1: maybe not the fun part. I mean, it can be exhilarating,

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Speaker 1: it could be a lot of things, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know that fun. Maybe we should define fun, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know that fun is the way. So is it?

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Speaker 1: You know? Can we say to the question that can

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Speaker 1: we say, honey, is fun? Absolutely? We should say it's

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Speaker 1: fun because it is. If it's not fun, you're just

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Speaker 1: you're probably a weirdo. Um, we should say it's fun. Now,

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Speaker 1: how we display that fun? Isn't this another another question?

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Speaker 1: I think? Morally? Um, I think you should. You should

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Speaker 1: display your emotions how they come. You shouldn't be fake

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Speaker 1: about how you display it. But you should also think

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Speaker 1: about when there's other people around you that that have

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Speaker 1: never experienced that, how did you get that across them

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Speaker 1: in a way that makes sense, and I think Steve

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Speaker 1: Alis says, you know, I like meat and I like

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Speaker 1: to have fun, and if hunting, if I lost either

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Speaker 1: of those two things, I wouldn't do it. I can

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Speaker 1: agree with that, But so we think it's okay to

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Speaker 1: say it's fun. You agree with that I do. You

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Speaker 1: can't take your tank, can't take it too seriously, take

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Speaker 1: it too seriously, we say, um, let's get to a

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Speaker 1: little bit longer one. Let's see this came from coyote Charlie.

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Speaker 1: He says, I was wondering about fenced hunting. From what

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Speaker 1: I know, you're you meaning me, are pretty familiar with Texas,

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Speaker 1: so you might have some thoughts on this. And you've

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Speaker 1: hunting Texas, but not have you ever hunting high fence? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've hunting dogs that were flying across high fence range,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't count. That counts I I was in there.

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Speaker 1: We are not hunting that wild stuff high fence hunter. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you might have some thoughts. I'm pretty against fenced hunting.

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Speaker 1: And the raising of bucks is livestock with unrealistic, freakish anilers.

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Speaker 1: So that's so that's defines that defines wrong. But as

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Speaker 1: far as fence hunting in general, what is your what

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Speaker 1: do you think about the space for hunting? Is it

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Speaker 1: still fence hunting if it's five thousand acres obviously three

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Speaker 1: to five hundred acres would be a huge place in

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Speaker 1: some areas, but some places not. What do you think

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Speaker 1: about when does it become fair chase? And what's your

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Speaker 1: opinion about the size of the acreage high fence ranch?

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Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Is there a is

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Speaker 1: there a I guess this question is ethically in the

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Speaker 1: in the application of fair chase. Is there a point

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Speaker 1: in which it becomes fair chase based on the amount

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Speaker 1: of acres that is fenced? Right? And uh man, it's

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Speaker 1: gonna vary so much from situation to situation. And again,

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Speaker 1: I think you're just gonna have to make your own

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Speaker 1: call while you're there, because it doesn't matter if it's

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Speaker 1: five acres or five thousand acres. If you've cornered the

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Speaker 1: animal against the fence, it's not fair chase. Yes, well,

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Speaker 1: I think like you said, it's I think it's based

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Speaker 1: on the animal you're chasing and the south. So let's

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Speaker 1: say like an average range of a white tailed deer

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Speaker 1: is a square mile, Is it then ethical to say,

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Speaker 1: if the fence covers square mile, then that white tail

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Speaker 1: on average has enough room to roam that he could

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Speaker 1: be naturally have patterns and he would be not restricted

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Speaker 1: by fences. Do you feel like that's true? He's still

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Speaker 1: restricted though, yep? What about two miles? Now twice is

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Speaker 1: average range still restricting? What about three miles? I don't

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Speaker 1: know what the cutoff is gonna be because I guess

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Speaker 1: if you go to the extreme and let's just say, well,

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Speaker 1: let's just say we put a fence around lower which

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Speaker 1: in the way you kind of have because we have

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Speaker 1: fences on borders that you know, it's sometimes they're not

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Speaker 1: made for wildlife to pass through. And then on either

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Speaker 1: coast you have these things called oceans, which prevent most

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Speaker 1: animals from moving large bodies of salty water. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we have some sort of enclosure. We do,

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Speaker 1: but obviously it's all fair. Chase. Yes, I so I

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Speaker 1: hunted in Texas on a high fence ranch some years ago.

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Speaker 1: He I was working for Patian Sunny magazine and a

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Speaker 1: certain company called me up and said, hey, we'd like

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Speaker 1: to do this hunt. Film it for television show. And

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Speaker 1: I said, well, I don't do high fence, so I'd

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Speaker 1: rather not go. They said, hey, we would love to

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Speaker 1: you to come down, experience in since you've never done it,

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Speaker 1: and then write about your experience as to whether it's

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Speaker 1: fair chase or not. This this I remember, this particular

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Speaker 1: place is about a little bit over five thousand acres.

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Speaker 1: It had once been they had bought, they had once

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Speaker 1: bred deer there, but it had been years since they

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Speaker 1: had actually bred any deer there. So there were breed

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Speaker 1: or deer in the fence, but they had not been

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Speaker 1: actively you know, call it captured and bread at any point.

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Speaker 1: So there they're they posited to me like, hey, you

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Speaker 1: know after the hunt was over, which it was not

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Speaker 1: fair chase. I mean, we did a lot of things

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Speaker 1: that we're you know, like drive drive past a year

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Speaker 1: that was bedded, get out, slammed the door, it would run,

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Speaker 1: and then we would chase it and kill it, you

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Speaker 1: know like that that's what they'd like to do. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that it's not fair chase. But but they would say, hey,

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Speaker 1: look you got after that deer. You saw that deer,

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Speaker 1: We went after it, tried to kill it, it got away.

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Speaker 1: Mm hm. Fair chase. That's what they kept saying to me,

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Speaker 1: if you pursue a deer and it can get away

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Speaker 1: from you, or you can hunt it for multiple days

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Speaker 1: and not kill it, fair enough for the animal, the

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Speaker 1: fair chase, if you can get away from you effectively,

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Speaker 1: it's fair. What do you got, Johnny? That sounds fair? Um?

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Speaker 1: Does sound fair? Yeah? I guess as long as you

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Speaker 1: like never use the fence to your advantage. Maybe that's

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Speaker 1: a caveat I throw in there. You wanted to call

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Speaker 1: it fair chase. Yeah, And I think the defense is

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Speaker 1: whether you use defence or not, you're still an advantage.

424
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: Whether you run them up against defense or not defence,

425
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: Still it gives you an advantage of somebody that's unting,

426
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: whether there is no offense. So do we do? What

427
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: do we say? What are we gonna say? What's the

428
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: what's the final verdict? Is there an acreage that is

429
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 1: significant enough that you would say it's fair chase? I would?

430
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: I would have to just I guess wonder, like, what's

431
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: what significance is defense? Then? For where you're at, like

432
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: there's just a bunch of exotics in there, is that

433
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 1: the reason for the offense? Are you trying to keep

434
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: something inside there that you don't want to get out. Yeah,

435
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of places in the world

436
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,719
Speaker 1: where they're like, you know, Africa's being one. We put

437
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: up senses to keep poachers out, right, you know, not

438
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,239
Speaker 1: to keep the animals in, and there's not you know,

439
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: a lot of people in texts tell the same thing

440
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: we but even for me, like if you take it

441
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: back to our model wildlife conservation, you know, animals are

442
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 1: held in trust by the states and belong to everyone.

443
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 1: So as soon as you put up a fence, yeah,

444
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: that's right. They don't belong to everyone. They don't belong

445
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: to everyone. So it just has a principle to me,

446
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: the fence is a problem. Now when it gets into

447
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: like the fencing exists and you can't do anything about it.

448
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: Is there some fair chase that could be had inside

449
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: of that fence, I would say, principally maybe. But the

450
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: hunter then can't say, oh, when given the option I

451
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: take the high offense and have any scruples. You gotta

452
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: you gotta not, you gotta avoid that at all costs.

453
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, I mean, can you go to

454
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: a ranch like that and get real world hunting scenarios

455
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: where you're gonna get blown out and be frust aided

456
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: and learn hunting skills by going there and chasing these animals,

457
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: for sure. But like you're saying, it always gives you

458
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: an advantage. Somewhat slight, but it always gives you. There's

459
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: really nothing you can do about it, all right, Well,

460
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: I I can't decide on the size, don't have high fence.

461
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: Just don't do it. Though if you do it, you're

462
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: probably you can make up a story about it being

463
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: fair chase, but you're they're always going to be an

464
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: argument against that. You're never gonna have a pure you know,

465
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: we talk about purity scale. You're never gonna You're never

466
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: gonna have a high score. Those defense involved just not.

467
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: You may be able to talk yourself into fair chase,

468
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: but it's really at the end of the day, it's

469
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: not as pure as it could be, no matter how

470
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: big defenses. Here's another one, this what's called This is

471
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: from Crozy Talk. He said, I have a question, thank you.

472
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: Is it ft coal to take a tree stand that

473
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: is left on public land? In Minnesota it is illegal

474
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: to leave a stand on public land and most of

475
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: the state. I'm interested in hearing your opinion on tree

476
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: stands or trail cameras left on public lands. What do

477
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: you think, Janny, I think yes, if you've watched that

478
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: stand and it's past the uh a lot of time

479
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: that it's allowed to be there, and if it's got

480
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: the dude's name number on it, he's probably calm before

481
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: you walk out of the woods with it. But uh, yeah,

482
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: if someone's being lazy doesn't want to pack their stand

483
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: back out of the woods like they're supposed to, I

484
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: don't have anything for any problem with it. So you're

485
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: now you feel like you're policing, policing the public land.

486
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: I wouldn't consider it be like like you're doing any

487
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: sort of policing. Um, I mean, I guess it's that's

488
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,959
Speaker 1: like that's his motivation. I would say, you don't need

489
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: to go police somebody. But if you're like, I'll use

490
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: that stands somewhere and I'll pack it in and out

491
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 1: of the woods. I'll clean up the woods because it

492
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: is nice not to have woods full of tree stands. Yeah,

493
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: like that's what's happening on a lot of private property

494
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: across the Midwest. Fro have hunted deer and it gets

495
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: a little like just yeah, it kills the zen feeling

496
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: of just walking through the woods. And just like every

497
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: corner of every ladder intersection, Yeah, ladders sticking everywhere. Yeah,

498
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: and then the ladders that are rotting in and falling

499
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: over just there in the graveyard and there's a new

500
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: ladder just standing where it used to stand. Um. Yeah,

501
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: but now experience now, guys, especially like you said, on

502
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: private land. Now, dudes, are you know hanging three stands

503
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: for wind direction? Like we got a southeast wind, I

504
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: gotta sit here and within you know, a quarter square

505
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: mile or within a small air you've got three or

506
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: four stands hanging, just depending on where the winds blown.

507
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: And if you do that four or five times over,

508
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: then you've got t stands on however big a property

509
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: you got. But when it comes to public land, I mean,

510
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: I think obviously it depends on what the rules are.

511
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: But in the case of Minnesota, where this guy saying

512
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: it's illegal to leave him up or a certain amount

513
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: of time, I mean I tend to be a you know,

514
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: a bit of a pacifist where this is concerned. I'd

515
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: probably leave it alone unless I felt it was really

516
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: hindering my or anyone else's hunting, probably leave it alone. Um,

517
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: But if I felt it was kind of egregious where

518
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: I was, or um, you know, it was then a

519
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: hunting spot that I valued and I knew nobody came

520
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: back to get it, I'd probably remove it. But I

521
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't just at a principal walk over and grab one

522
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: that I didn't think had a negative effect on me specifically,

523
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: Would you take it just because you needed to stand

524
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: and you're like, that's clearly that one's been there long enough,

525
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: I'll take it. Yeah, I don't know. I mean once

526
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: you if if if the rule says you can't leave

527
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: it there, and it's I think the person that hangs

528
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: a stand, they come If you hang a stand and

529
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: leave it up there for three weeks and know that's

530
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: against the rules, and you come back and it's gone,

531
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: you can't bitch. Oh hell no, you're forfeiting forefeiting your stand,

532
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: So whatever happens to it, you can't bitch. So I

533
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: would say, ethically, this guy's probably as long as he's

534
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: as long as he's thought about it and constructively thought,

535
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: hey is this. Let me give this a little bit

536
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: of time, and then I'm taking it down. Yeah, And

537
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: didn't say like, oh man, I forgot my stand, pull

538
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: this one down and hanging up somewhere else, or you're

539
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: not you're not advocating, and go steal stand. There'll be

540
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: a dick, is what I guess what I'll say, Um,

541
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: do it for a good reason and feel but feel

542
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,239
Speaker 1: free to do it if somebody leaves it up there

543
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: too long. That's right land On now agreed, Agreed, So

544
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: it's ethically okay. I think it's athlete. I think it's

545
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: ethinitely okay. I don't I don't know. Like I said,

546
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: I'm more passive on this, so I don't know um

547
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: what I would do, but I would probably avoid taking

548
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: it unless I felt like I had to take it.

549
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: That's what I feel. Next one came from hard t N.

550
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: Why are some bow hunters okay with just slapping a

551
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: bow together without testing their equipment? Then when they make

552
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: bad shots with their gear isn't effective, They don't try

553
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: to improve themselves or they're gear to ensure that they

554
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: are bow hunting as ethically as possible. The question is

555
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: why are they okay with that? Well? I think the

556
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: question is The question ends up being if are you

557
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: an unethical hunter? If you are not tending to your

558
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: gear properly. When why are you? Okay? And then and

559
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: I know, like you got the if you both hun

560
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: You know, people that our weekend warriors that aren't spending

561
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: the time with their equipment that they need to. It

562
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're lazy, doesn't mean they're assholes. It just

563
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: means maybe they'll have enough time and they still want

564
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: to go hunting. But does that make you an unethical hunter? See?

565
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: I feel like there is a little bit of laziness

566
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: involved there. Yep. Well, there may be like a prioritization issue,

567
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: like what are you prioritizing over that? Because when you're

568
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: going out, if you don't have time to practice, you

569
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: don't have time to hunt. My opinion, that's what I

570
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: would say. You agree with that, Yeah, And obviously it's

571
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: it's a personal decision. You know you can do that.

572
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: And I guess if you value just being able to

573
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: go out there and hunting fling arrows over take that

574
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: time to practice so that you're not just flinging arrows. Um,

575
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: that's your decision. We can't tell you this. I don't

576
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: think we can. I can tell tell you that it's

577
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: ethically wrong, but is it ethic? Well, yeah, I mean

578
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: it's to what level you want to apply those ethics right, Like, yeah,

579
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna apply my ethics to them. What I

580
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: like to do is practice a whole bunch and be

581
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: feeling like, um, you know, doing the best job that

582
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: I can. You know, when I'm gonna shoot at an animal,

583
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: Is that your threshold for being an ethical bow hunter,

584
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: having like done your best to make a good shot? Yeah,

585
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 1: big part of it. So then if you apply She's like, Okay,

586
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: that's the if. That's what an ethical bow hunter is.

587
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: Somebody who has done their to the best of their efforts,

588
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: trained and practice and tune their equipment to make sure

589
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: that they can make the shot when it present itself.

590
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: You know, if you screw it up in the moment,

591
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: you screw up in the moment. I mean, that's happened

592
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: to everybody in their hunting lives. It just happens. But

593
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: for me to be an ethical bow hunter, you have

594
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: to be in you have to be in the pursuit

595
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: of getting better all the time. To be an ethical

596
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: bow howner, You're you're gonna start out really terrible. You

597
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: might be really terrible for quite some time. But you

598
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: you can't be lazy enough or apathetic enough to not

599
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: be getting better, like just to pick your bow up

600
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: once a year, shoot at the twenty yards, hit two

601
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: three arrows near the bull's eye, and go out hunt,

602
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: because you're not improving it by doing that. But you

603
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: have to be to be an ethical hunter, always getting better,

604
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,959
Speaker 1: always learning more, always like you have to, I think,

605
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 1: because if you don't, you're talking about specifically with shooting

606
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: your bowl, or what if you just spend all that

607
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: time just learning to be a better tracker and a

608
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: better guy picking out better stand locations so that you

609
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: get closer, more closer shots. That's a good point. But

610
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: when's have become about the one thing I guess about

611
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: slapping bows together? Yeah, let's you get back to just

612
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: slapping a boat together. Because if your boat, if you're site,

613
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: if you're not sited in, if if you're if your

614
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: draw length isn't right, if your peep sites you know,

615
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:12,720
Speaker 1: not set right. Yeah, and this could apply to muzzle loaders, rifles, anything. Yeah, Um,

616
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: but I think it's probably more prevalent in archery because

617
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: there is such a wide gap between buying a bow

618
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: and knowing what to do with it, I believe. And

619
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: there's also a big, big, old fat gap between going

620
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: and buying a bow at a bowshop and buying it

621
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: from somebody that's knowledgeable and that can point in the

622
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: right direction. In fact, I have had a buddy that

623
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 1: came to Bearcamp with us that had a thumb release

624
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: and was shooting it the wrong way. He was shooting

625
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: it with his knuckles on his cheek as opposed to

626
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: like this. He had gone to bowshop, somebody sold him

627
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: that and told him to do it m so, and

628
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 1: he put he put a photo on Instagram and he's

629
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: got a lot of followers and people just blew him

630
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: up for it. His draw length was an inch too short,

631
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: he has release turned the wrong way, and he went

632
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: to a proa shot yeah in Texas, and that's what

633
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: he got. And so I think there's like a gap

634
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: there too. So you like trust someone to tell you

635
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 1: to do it the right way, you know. So what's

636
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: your what's your responsibility in the end, Johnny, what's your

637
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: responsibility as to the to the working nature of your equipment? Well,

638
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 1: I think it's a You're gonna have to decide just

639
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: what I mean, maybe yeah, maybe, always continuing to get better.

640
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: Maybe that's a good way to put it. But do

641
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: you guys to decide what where you're like, at what

642
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: level you're ethically comfortable at that moment? And I think

643
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: that maybe it speaks to being ethical when there are

644
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: times when you say, you know what, I haven't shot enough,

645
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: one of my equipment is not dialed in enough. Instead

646
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: of going honey, I should go do that. Yeah, I've

647
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: done that a lot of the tin a hunter just

648
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: means having that conversation with yourself. Have you ever done that,

649
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: Like got to a trip and like, I gotta take

650
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 1: a day off hunting so I can get my stuff

651
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: dialed um of definitely. We did that in Michigan this

652
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: last time. We didn't hunt like our first morning in

653
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: camp because we knew we just had to, you know,

654
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: shoot bowls a little bit and get dialed in. You

655
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: know that's so important when you travel to hunt because

656
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: air pressure is different, you're different altitude and humidity, your

657
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: boat is traveled. You gotta shoot man, Yeah you do. Yeah, No,

658
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: I've I've done that. I do that a lot. When

659
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,720
Speaker 1: you get into camp and you have either an outfit

660
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: or your buddies, like, let's go, let's go, let's go

661
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: and get it treated like chill, like um and or

662
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: like you said. You can then put yourself in a

663
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: scenario where you only have like twenty yards shots you know,

664
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: where you know very high probability you can make that shot.

665
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: You don't set yourself on a field edge where a

666
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: deer can walk hunter yards eight yards, fifty yards. Set

667
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 1: yourself when get yourself in a thick spot in between

668
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: with a lot of cover where deer coming in tight

669
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: on you and stuff like that. You can you can

670
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: do that to mitigate it. But that that again is

671
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: just being aware that maybe your equipment is more needed

672
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: it needs to be and setting yourself up for success

673
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: rather than just climbing in the same old tree with

674
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: the same old bow that you shot once in September.

675
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: Now it's November. Yeah, And I don't want to sing

676
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 1: about bowl hunters for feeling like they do that anymore.

677
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: You know, as a guide man, I saw it across

678
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: the board. Dudes coming in, you pick up their rifle

679
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: and look through it, and their cross hairs look like

680
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: an X. Like really, have you looked through your and

681
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: you look through your sculp any time in the last

682
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: I don't know decade, like you know, obviously they didn't

683
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 1: prepare themselves. Yeah, no, I think that's in. I have

684
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: some first world problems. I showed you guys to shooting

685
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: the show. The media shows like you get into this

686
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: like travel, travel, travel, travel, always using different weapons, and

687
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 1: you're like, I got three days before my trip and

688
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: my wife needs me to do this, this and this

689
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: I got. I'm really busy at work. Should I didn't

690
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: make it to the range, I'm gonna go anyway. I'll

691
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: take this rifle and when I get there, I'll shoot

692
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: it in. Then when you get there, like, well, we

693
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: don't really have a range for you. Um, just shoot

694
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: once over that rock and you shoot. You're like, I

695
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: think I hit it. That's good. Then you go out

696
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: and hunt with the rifle you're not sure about. Next thing,

697
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: you know, you crack one in the freaking ear or

698
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: shoot its leg off, and then looking back you're like, WHOA,

699
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: that's my fault. M M, that is my fault. That's

700
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: the worst case scenario. Or you your buddies like, I'll

701
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: bring it rifle for you, don't worry. I shot it in.

702
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: I sighted in for you. And you get there and

703
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: they hand it to you and you go hunt, and

704
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: you know, shoot one in the ass and wonder why.

705
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: So same with rifles. I mean that's that probably happens more.

706
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: Nobody's just like hand you a bell and says, hey, here, here,

707
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: shoot my bell. Usually, so it can't happen more with rifles,

708
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: probably them than archery tackle. Yeah, definitely. I've been the

709
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: one that handed him over, and I've been the one

710
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: that has taken him. And I always anytime, even though

711
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 1: I know that I took that gun to the range

712
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: and shot a nice group with it, I always tell him, like,

713
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: you should go shoot it, Yeah you could, just as

714
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: much for the ethics as uh. I just want to know, yeah,

715
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: that I'm gonna kill something confidence man. Yeah, Yeah, that's

716
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: that's that's where like aesthex and hunting gets a little

717
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: bit shady, because you know, there there is everything. Everybody's

718
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: different and you apply to different things in different situations.

719
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like your ability to kill

720
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: the thing is part of your ethical responsibility. I think

721
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: I think you can't disconnect it to at the very least,

722
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: And so you know, you could be a you can

723
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: prepare and prepare and prepare and then always lose it

724
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: in the moment, you know, But I think that's that's okay.

725
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: But you can. But if you don't prepare, then you can't.

726
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: You can't call yourself enough ethical hunter if you don't

727
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: care enough to get prepared. No, okay, this next one,

728
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: Lance b r He says, here's one for you. We

729
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: live in Saskatchewan, Canada. A friend of mine had been

730
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: hunting a property owned by his dad purely for hunting purposes.

731
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: So the dad owned this property purely for hunting purposes.

732
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: We've harvested elkin moves from the same area and we

733
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: always have a great time white tail hunting there, and

734
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: past years we've all hunted it together, including his dad

735
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: and the property owner. We've had a great time. So

736
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: this year I invested a ton of time weekends, trout

737
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: cams stands to help get ready for a great white

738
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: tail week in November to try and target some of

739
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: the mature bucks we've been seeing. Just yesterday, eight days

740
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: before general season, he tells me he would prefer to

741
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: hunt it only with his dad to make sure they

742
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: get the big bucks for themselves. I'm left with a

743
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: week off from work and nowhere to go. That's cold, Yeah,

744
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: what the hell do I do? He also says the

745
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: ethics question. He also says, I don't want to be

746
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: a slime ball, but I kind of feel like I

747
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 1: got screwed over. They're a great family and good friends,

748
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: but I'm a little confused as to why it took

749
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: them so long to let me know any thoughts or

750
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: advice or how to handle this situation. I think this

751
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: will probably go back to ethically, in the situation of

752
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: his friend and the dad, how do you handle that

753
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: situation if you have, like and I've been in this

754
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,720
Speaker 1: situation before where I had a really good friend who

755
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,919
Speaker 1: had a lease. I wasn't on the lease or paying

756
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: for it, but he always let me go. And then

757
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: I always knew. I always knew that because I didn't pay,

758
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: at any time he'd be like, hey, man, looked up,

759
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: can't go. So I didn't have any expectation, even though

760
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: I helped him hanging tree stands and hunted there a

761
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 1: lot and killed deer there, that at any point in

762
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: time that it was there prerogative to tell me stay home, homie.

763
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: So I think the question of the ethical question here

764
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: is if you're the friend and the dad, how do

765
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: you manage that, like, how do you, like, how should

766
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 1: the friend and the dad be acting? Yeah, you gotta go,

767
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: you got a guy, you gotta buddy. It's been doing

768
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: it much of work for you. They've been cranking work

769
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: for it. And you've expressed to him that that you

770
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: can hunt this week and thanks for all your work,

771
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: and that's you've paying your dues enough to hunt, and

772
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: then on the back end to side like, ah, rather

773
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: just be the two of us? Yeah, I think you're

774
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: being a little greedy and uh, a little bit of

775
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: a yeah, you think of all kinds of bad names,

776
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: a little bit of a dick, yeah, but that, but

777
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 1: I think overall, the question then becomes like, how do

778
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: you handle that relationship as the person who's doing the

779
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: work but not guaranteed a spot and the person who has.

780
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it depends on how well he knows that family,

781
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: But I mean, if I was in his shoes, I'd

782
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: have a real serious sit down with them and be like, look, man,

783
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: I feel like I got kind of burned on this

784
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: thing and putting a lot of effort into it. Um,

785
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I mean, I understands your property,

786
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: but you know, we kind of hunt hand this understanding,

787
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: and you know, let's let them react to you bringing

788
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: that up and and hopefully if your guys are good

789
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: friends and you can put it on the table and

790
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,439
Speaker 1: discuss it and come up with a solution. But don't

791
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: be a dick. That's kind of like you could lose

792
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: a friendship over doing something. Have you ever had like

793
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 1: I had a cousin growing up that we we had

794
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: were very contentious over hunting spots, and like he was

795
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: always very jealous and we always and I know a

796
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: lot of people have lost friends over hunting spots and

797
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: lost friends over like permissions, and like people get weird,

798
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 1: especially in the white tailed world where you like we're

799
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: managing for bucks and somebody shoots the wrong one, or

800
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: you ever lost a friend over something like that and

801
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 1: they've gotten a big gotten a big uh. No. Never,

802
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: I haven't, no, because we hunted like this pretty much

803
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: the same private land growing up for deer, and that

804
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: never came up. And then when I moved out West,

805
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: I started hunting mostly public land, and ah, I don't know,

806
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 1: never really uh abused spots that I was taken to,

807
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: I guess, and it never came up. It came up

808
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: for me when I was a younger kid, but then

809
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 1: once I got older, you just picked people to hunt

810
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: with and pick landers and spots where you don't think

811
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: you're gonna get into that. But I know, Mark Kenyon,

812
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: it wasn't probably wasn't punitive or you know, the guy

813
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 1: wasn't being a dick, but had an agreement with the

814
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: landowner and drove all the way out I think it

815
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: was Nebraska or somewhere and got there and guy was like,

816
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: it's not gonna work. Somebody else's on this. And then

817
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: I can said, you can't get mad expect Well, no

818
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: you can't. His prerogative. But if it's a friend of yours, yeah,

819
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: it's been investing all kinds of time and money. Yeah, man, Yeah,

820
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: you're being a dick. Don't be a dick. That's a

821
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: T shirt. It was a T shirt, Johnnie. Yeah, be nice,

822
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: be real nice. Yeah. I feel terrible for you to

823
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 1: start putting that on T shirts. People should just know that.

824
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 1: Parents tell your kids, don't be nice. Be nice. Be

825
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: nice to our kids daily, Be nice to each other,

826
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: every maybe next to everybody. Whatever. Yeah, I don't. I

827
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: learned from another a good friend of ours. Um Carmen.

828
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: I heard her tell her kids when they are being

829
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: little ships and I forget what sort of how the

830
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: outlash is happening, but somebody wore they were not being

831
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: nice some way. She said, look, I know that you

832
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: may be tired, you may be hungry, we may have

833
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: a dirty diaper, whatever it might be. But the one

834
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: thing that we are not allowed to do is be nasty.

835
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: We're just kind of like saying be nice, and uh,

836
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: I really like that, and and it worked. It seemed

837
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: to like make her kids kind of stop and be like, Okay,

838
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 1: you're right. I'd like to drop that all my kids

839
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: a lot of times, to be like, look, man, I

840
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: know something's got you all fired up, but that does

841
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: not allow you to react in the way you're reacting

842
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: to the problem. Right now, you can still have a

843
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: really bad day and just sort of like like grace

844
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: is like something that's still I think above them. And

845
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: I haven't really introduced the idea of grace, which I'm

846
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: gonna hammer on him later in a lot, but right now,

847
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: it's just like be nice. Yeah, I mean, I might

848
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 1: be Even my two year old like we He learned

849
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: time out pretty quickly when he was like and now

850
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: he puts himself in time out, really yeah, walks over

851
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 1: and sits down and puts himself in time out because

852
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: you know, like he like self regulates himself. He's like,

853
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 1: I've been being a dick. He'll do something and I'll

854
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: be like James and He'll just like around and walk

855
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: over and sit down because I and he has like

856
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 1: this weird awareness of of you know, he knows at

857
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: least he knows that his mother and I are like

858
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: the judges now of because he just doesn't have as

859
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: much awareness to know, but he knows. He has enough

860
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: awareness to realize that, like when we're upset, something's gone

861
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: wrong here and we all need to shape it up

862
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: and be nicer. And so he always like he'll get

863
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: carried away emotionally as a two year old always does,

864
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: and like maybe swing and hit somebody and immediately go

865
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 1: put himself in time out, and I'll stand him up,

866
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 1: and I'll be like hug and kiss, and they'll hug

867
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: and kiss and then go and give everybody like almost

868
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 1: immediately it understands like, oh crap, So I hope that

869
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 1: could use. I hope we don't lose that along the way.

870
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: But even for a two year old, there's like some

871
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: there's definitely some realizations that that little kid has. There's

872
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: one here about kiots. I'm gonna find it that I

873
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: that I like, um good bit. And really it just

874
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: comes back to morals and ethics around shooting something that

875
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: maybe not killing it. This is from Brock stupor you're stubborn,

876
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 1: however you say your name Brock. I have an ethnic

877
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: s morals question in regards on in coyotes. I guess

878
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: the issue I run into when predator hunting is the

879
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: fact that the animal is wasted. I've shot coyotes over

880
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: the years, and I hate the feeling wasting the animal

881
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,959
Speaker 1: and leaving it lay. At the same time, kyote hunting

882
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: is a great excuse for me to get in the

883
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: woods and permission to hunt kayots. It's easy to get.

884
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 1: Is this something that I'll need to get over and

885
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,479
Speaker 1: just look at the positives of having the opportunity to hunt.

886
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: I suppose I could take the hides from the coyotes

887
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: like I do when I get a bobcat, But even

888
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: then I don't know if the hides, if I'd have

889
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,919
Speaker 1: the time to tan the hides I get already from

890
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: other critters. I also look at it from a deer

891
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: preservation standpoint too, but I don't know if I can

892
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: get on board with that whole thing. I feel like

893
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 1: people disrespect the kaya because it's a predator and does

894
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: what it needs to survive. Maybe I'm ever thinking this,

895
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,240
Speaker 1: but I'd love to hear your viewpoint on this topic.

896
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 1: Thanks Rock. Shooting kayats leaving them lay? Is that ethical

897
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:50,240
Speaker 1: and moral? Man, that's a real personal ethics moral question

898
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: for me. It just doesn't feel right. I can agree

899
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 1: with that, and I actually don't like. I don't think

900
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: that it's ethically you're wrong, I really don't, but something

901
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: inside of me just it just doesn't feel right. Well,

902
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,959
Speaker 1: we've all met the hunter, slash ranchers, lest landowner that says,

903
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 1: every time you see a guy out or bobcat or

904
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: any type of predator, you whack it. If it's legal,

905
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: you whack it. If it's illegal, show shoot, shouble and

906
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: shut up. I mean, I've been in that situation a

907
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: lot with badgers, with anything really, even in Montana here

908
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: some years ago, with wolves. Yeah, and that's all it

909
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: really takes for me to be uh, you know, spun

910
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 1: over too, like it maybe not not feeling bad about

911
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: it at all. Is if all of a sudden, you know,

912
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,439
Speaker 1: at my place we had in two years, it turns

913
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,320
Speaker 1: into we have like a little hobby farm and there's

914
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, fifty chickens and there's you know, constant

915
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: issues with chios for foxes, like they're going to be

916
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 1: getting killed may or may not be using the fur.

917
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: I think mostly I probably would um you it at

918
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: least think about it. You would be shoot him and

919
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: toss him in a ditch. But again, the it's like

920
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: a kyote for someone can write in and tell us

921
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: like what to do with them. I have some from

922
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: friends that have just given me coyotes that they trapped.

923
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: They were tanned, and it's a great decoration. They can't

924
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: in the wintertime. They can't be really nice, But you're

925
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: not gonna wear them like that. You might line like

926
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 1: your hood on your jacket. I've actually been thinking about

927
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 1: it because no, there it's like a very technically proven

928
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: like way to keep like sort of like a buffer

929
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: of air in front of your face and keep the

930
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 1: wind off your face. But yeah, what else are you

931
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 1: gonna do with it? I mean, you might be able

932
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: to trim out a couple of a jacket for your gal.

933
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: You do look up, I'm looking at us for kyotes,

934
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 1: the shooting. I'm looking up the shooting kyotes make more coyotes.

935
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 1: I don't know that's a shitty Google term, but I've

936
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 1: heard from a lot of biologists, not a lot, a

937
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: several biologists that shooting kyotes creates more coyotes. Anyway, Well,

938
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: you can listen to Dan Flores talk about you know,

939
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,359
Speaker 1: he studied up real good on coyotes when you wrote

940
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: Coyote America. Yeah, that's a great day to talk about

941
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: this with. I mean, the one takeaway from that, the

942
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 1: whole conversation in that book is that we have tried

943
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 1: our asses off for over a hundred years two extirpate

944
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 1: that species, tried very hard X dynamite and poison and

945
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: aerial gunning, and the coyote is too bad ass for us. Yeah,

946
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 1: um has been. It wasn't too long ago that they

947
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: were only west of the Mississippi and now, I mean,

948
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: just take an animal that lives in swamps, it lives

949
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: in uh prairies, it lives in forests, it lives in anywhere.

950
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: It's like water man. It just hits it and just

951
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: goes around it. Yeah, so here's a there's an article

952
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:16,439
Speaker 1: from Outdoor Life by a feller name what's your name name? Guy?

953
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: Author man Dave Dave Kramer, and this is from teen

954
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: but he basically just goes through and it is talking

955
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: about how it's situational. In some situations it's great and

956
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: others not so much. And so that's one thing to

957
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 1: think about when you're shooting coyotes, like, are you just like,

958
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: you know, I think from what this guy saying, he

959
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: likes to go have the hunting opportunity, it's it's it's fun.

960
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 1: There's the fun thing. Again, you're out at a time

961
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 1: when you like not a lot of other UM seasons

962
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: aren't open. So what you would consider like an off

963
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: season of hunting, um, you can always fall back on

964
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:02,439
Speaker 1: predator control. But uh, all that all that being said,

965
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: that's kind of complicated and situational. What isn't situational is

966
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 1: that you're shooting an animal and leaving it lay and

967
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,720
Speaker 1: you're really not intending to use any part of it,

968
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: So like, you know, erase all that other stuff like that. Yeah,

969
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: it's fun and you're shooting an animal leaving it lay

970
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: for me, I am. I wasn't always with you, but

971
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 1: I am at this point in my life like I

972
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 1: am not. I do not desire to go shoot things

973
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: and throw them in ditches. I just don't And and

974
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 1: then I don't. I don't, Like I said, I don't

975
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,920
Speaker 1: think it's wrong for someone to do without a reason. Right,

976
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: if if some ranger came to fun, Yeah, if some

977
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 1: ranger came to me and said, hey, look, I know

978
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: you've been mule deer hunting on my ranch. You know, um,

979
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: if you don't mind as a you know, as a

980
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: favor to me for mulely hunting on my ranch, do

981
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,359
Speaker 1: you mind coming up in February and shooting a half

982
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: dozen cos you're spending a week and shooting as many

983
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: cocks as you can get because I've got a glut

984
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: of coyotes and they're bothering my livestock and I need

985
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: your help with that. I'd be like, yeah, sure, no problem,

986
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: because then I'm like I have a reason to do it.

987
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 1: But if I'm sitting around in the cash so you

988
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 1: don't feel like the blood's on your hands, not as much,

989
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: but there still as a reason, like I still am.

990
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: But if you don't necessarily agree with his reasoning, just

991
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: sort of like making excuses. You're right, I would have

992
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: to agree with his reasoning first, so like, yeah, I

993
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 1: mean I think reasoning is having a reason to do

994
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: what you're doing. Is is at the crux of all

995
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: these questions, almost every one of these questions is what

996
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 1: is the reason you're doing what you're doing? So coyotes

997
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: is no different. It's like, what's the reason you're doing it?

998
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: Because you're sitting around on Saturday and there's no football on,

999
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: and you're really you're used to going out and chasing

1000
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: deer and there really the only way to get outside

1001
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 1: and kill stuff is to go kill kyotes. Listen, man,

1002
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: Like that's a dangerous road to go on because then

1003
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: you're just you need an excuse to kill stuff and

1004
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 1: it ends up being it. Yeah, you're not gonna eat it.

1005
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: I was tried one. Wasn't that good? What's the what's

1006
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: the flavor profile? I would say, you know, it was

1007
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 1: very like stinky duck really yeah, like diver duck ish

1008
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: that kind of like a livery profile. No, that's never good.

1009
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: And he gave me with a livery profile like go

1010
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: high iron never the only thing you should taste like livers, liver,

1011
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: and even liver hopefully doesn't taste like liver. Um, so

1012
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: what do you like? What do you you know? What's

1013
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: the Are you standing on that ground or do you

1014
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 1: look down on other people that do that? That might say,

1015
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: like again, because I don't like it's legal, and I

1016
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 1: don't think that like again, personally, I don't think my

1017
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: my ethics are necessarily against um well, my personal I

1018
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 1: think is our against killing stuff on that and letting

1019
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 1: it lay. Yeah, that's where I draw. That's like my

1020
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 1: first thought is if I'm killing it and letting it lay,

1021
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: there better be a damn good reason to do it.

1022
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: There better be a real sound reason to do it,

1023
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: and and I'll have to have thought it through pretty good.

1024
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 1: I used to not be like that. He's be like, oh,

1025
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: there's one shoot at bam dead cool, I'm saving them,

1026
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:34,680
Speaker 1: saving the deer. Oh, not really knowing if That's what

1027
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 1: I'm doing or not. So I think a lot of

1028
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 1: hunters get in that situation where up saving the deer,

1029
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: shot that guy out. Really, are you maybe you want

1030
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: to look into that before you kill something, Maybe look

1031
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: into one really is going on? Okay, But here's here's

1032
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: where it gets. I'm gonna keep going on this one

1033
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 1: because it's, uh, we talked about this last week a

1034
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: little bit because the Kyle sort of dictates that we

1035
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: have this conversation about whether it's okay throw it in

1036
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: the ditch after you kill it. As you go smaller

1037
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: and smaller down the chain of living things, it doesn't

1038
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 1: matter if you're a vegan. Um, I don't know how

1039
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 1: to make like the like the picturesque Buddha, like just

1040
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: like the happiest person that's most in tune with the world.

1041
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: Very few people are going to try to save a

1042
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: hundred ants that are invading their kitchen and trying to

1043
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: get them to like walk out of their house instead

1044
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: of just stomping on all of them, are spraying with

1045
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: bleach or however they decide to dispose of them. So like,

1046
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: why why do we have these like this sort of

1047
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: like cut off line somewhere yep, where it's like there's

1048
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 1: some anthropomorphism in there, right, I mean, like it has

1049
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: a face in it, and it has personality characteristics of humans.

1050
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: That's all sn our ethics are, Like, yeah, I think

1051
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if this directly gives to what you're

1052
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 1: talking about. But I think hunters specifically, I love it

1053
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 1: and fucking and are unabashed in a lot of ways

1054
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: when the gloves come off, like when it's like Farrell Hawks,

1055
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: shoot him, shoot him, don't worry about it. Yeah, we

1056
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 1: have to kill him. And then like this is a

1057
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: big thing that I have, Like this is ethically and morally.

1058
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: Where I kind of draw some lines is like two hunters,

1059
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: like I hunt for conservation and hunt for the meat,

1060
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: and I don't, you know, I don't enjoy the killing.

1061
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 1: But then when we take the gloves off, we're like,

1062
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: kill that thing. We need them all dead. And then

1063
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 1: we're in helicopters mowing shipped down. We're whooping in a holler,

1064
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 1: and we're throwing grenades at him. We're shooting him with

1065
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 1: you know, semi automatic a R S with I R

1066
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:55,959
Speaker 1: lasers at night with night vision and having fun doing

1067
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: it and stacking them up like, oh look at this,

1068
01:01:58,120 --> 01:01:59,959
Speaker 1: the gloves are off. Now I've killed these in maths

1069
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: and I'm having a great time to do it. But

1070
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: I feel like I've never done that particular thing. But

1071
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: one thing that I did once that we only did once,

1072
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 1: and I don't know if we ever talked about it,

1073
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: the opportunity still was there because there was a pond

1074
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 1: that was I don't know, a hundred yards or so

1075
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 1: from the dirt road that ran up to the hunting

1076
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: cabin when the guests would stay, and it was twenty

1077
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 1: yards from our guide cabin. And one day we sat

1078
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 1: there and shot I don't know, five hundred rounds down

1079
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: of this pond at muskrats something around. No intention of

1080
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 1: going to pick up the muskrats now at the time

1081
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 1: when we're having fun, Yes, but we did it. And

1082
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: it was like, even though we never talked about it,

1083
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: we in the opportunity was always there. It was never

1084
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: something that we were like, let's go do that again, right,

1085
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: So you feel you had to do it once to learn.

1086
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: I almost feel like it's the same thing like you're

1087
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: kind of describing with the gloves off. There's I don't

1088
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 1: think there's very few people that, like time and time again,

1089
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 1: are just gonna get their jollies from just mowing down

1090
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: and killing and killing and killing and killing and just

1091
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 1: continue to want more and more and more of it.

1092
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 1: It's true. I get with you on that, and you're saying,

1093
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: like people are generally good. That's what you're saying. You're

1094
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: saying that people will generally realize the error of their

1095
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 1: ways a few dozen hogs into them. And I don't

1096
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 1: know if it's yeah, if it's the air, but I

1097
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: just don't think that, like most people actually like it's

1098
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 1: not that good that you want to repeat it. Yeah.

1099
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 1: I mean there was a study back. I don't know

1100
01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 1: if it was in the seventies, but there's a study.

1101
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: Have to look it up now. There's a study about

1102
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 1: like the stages of hunting, stages of being a hunter.

1103
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a little bit outdated now because

1104
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: it was I think it was in the seventies. But

1105
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 1: the first one was like fun shooting or something like

1106
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: I love to shoot. That was like the first stage

1107
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: of hunting. And I think that's again, it's not it's

1108
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 1: when you're that's like a natural that ends up being

1109
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 1: a natural progression for people. I think he's like, I

1110
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 1: love adult onset hunters probably don't go through it as much,

1111
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: but when you're a twelve year old boy, dude, it's

1112
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 1: fisceral for you, like like if it's alive, it should die. Yeah,

1113
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 1: not every little boy with a BB gun. Shooting squirrels

1114
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 1: and birds in the head is a serial killer or

1115
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: some kind of you know, unethical monster. So there's like

1116
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 1: there is some natural progression of that. No, So you're right.

1117
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 1: I think you're right in the fact that if you

1118
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 1: truly do enjoy the gloves off thing in perpetuity, you

1119
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: got a problem. Man, Like you're not. You might you

1120
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: might have to get the checked out. But yeah, I

1121
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 1: won't name the people that were in the helicopter, but

1122
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 1: I know that you were in the helicopter. Well, I've

1123
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: been in a lot of situations where I've been in

1124
01:04:57,640 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: I've done helicopters once, but I've done two or three

1125
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: from times where it was like night hunting for hogs

1126
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 1: and it was like I our lasers full on helmets

1127
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 1: with would drop down night vision and you know, we're

1128
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 1: we're shooting M four's suppressed and we're rolling around like

1129
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: the fields of Texas like a little you know, commando team,

1130
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 1: shooting as many hogs as we can get. And if

1131
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:23,919
Speaker 1: we just so happened to shoot one square in the ass,

1132
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,439
Speaker 1: not a big deal, because it's just a hawk. It's

1133
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 1: an invasive species, so killing them all is what we're after.

1134
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 1: And that's the freaking slippery slope. Man, It's a slippery slope. Yeah.

1135
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 1: And the one that the what I don't like about

1136
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 1: that is that killing them all and extra painting them

1137
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: is actually not what any one of those people wants,

1138
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 1: because then they couldn't continue that fun activity of pretending

1139
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 1: like your g I t exactly exactly. And like that's

1140
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 1: where I've always been like you you say, like, so

1141
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:58,919
Speaker 1: that's where the bullshit comes in this you came back onto.

1142
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:02,600
Speaker 1: Steve has talked about Australia a lot around like, yeah,

1143
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 1: just recently with what's going on in New Zealand, right, Yeah,

1144
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 1: they're they're starting to have they're starting to have to

1145
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:11,000
Speaker 1: come to terms with, hey, we got a bunch these

1146
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 1: non natives and we love to hunt them, and and

1147
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 1: and our justification for hunting is around the fact that

1148
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 1: we are eliminating non native animals. But then when the

1149
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 1: government says, hey, we'll step in and take care of

1150
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: that for you. Let us just we'll get the helicopters,

1151
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 1: just do it for you. No words, You're you're having

1152
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 1: to walk a lot. They're like, no, no, no, don't

1153
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: do it, Like what what isn't that what you were doing, yeah,

1154
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 1: which I think is fine. They're just uh, it's just

1155
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:37,000
Speaker 1: causing him to rethink thinking, and they're just gonna have

1156
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:39,160
Speaker 1: to say, you know what, I was wrong. There are

1157
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 1: all these all these other reasons that make this activity

1158
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 1: great for me. Yeah, and so I think, yeah, and

1159
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 1: I well, not even I was wrong in that case,

1160
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 1: you'd be like, I was wrong with the way I

1161
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 1: presented my reasoning. I was wrong. I wanted to present it,

1162
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: but I mean just that I reasoned that I reasoned

1163
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: it well, I was. I would like there to be

1164
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 1: a balance, right, not to kill them all, you know,

1165
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 1: so like when I shoot a thing, I'm not I'm

1166
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 1: not gonna go out there and be like, here, I

1167
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: am shooting this fox just because it's non native. That's

1168
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: not the way, like, hey, I'm shooting this predator because

1169
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: I believe that I believe and I've done some research

1170
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 1: to the place that I'm at that says the shooting

1171
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 1: this fox is beneficial rather than like it's not native,

1172
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 1: Bam dead, No excuse, Because if if the government starts

1173
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 1: applying your own rationale to to wildlife, then they're all

1174
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: gonna die. So you better come up with a freaking

1175
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 1: better one, just in case of New Zealand, because then

1176
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 1: they'll just kill them all. There's nothing you can do.

1177
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 1: So we started out at Coyotes and got to New Zealand.

1178
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 1: That was that's that's impressive. But I I that's right,

1179
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: That's where I'm at. The older I get, the more

1180
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 1: I don't. I really want to have thought out the

1181
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 1: killing of a thing that's just me. You're there too,

1182
01:07:55,800 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: for sure? All right? Uh Marshal Sea door right son

1183
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: on on an only going debate among my circle of

1184
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 1: hunting friends, what situation ranks higher on the hunting purity

1185
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 1: scale regarding archer and hunting Before we get into his

1186
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: situations here, do you believe that, like the hunting purity

1187
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 1: scale has anything to do with ethics? No? Why not?

1188
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 1: Because the hunting purity scale, man, it's just it's a

1189
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 1: totally made up thing that again is going to change

1190
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:39,720
Speaker 1: on every person's experiences and sounds like sex and right,

1191
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 1: But a scale requires like other people to participate in

1192
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 1: the same scale, unless you're just gonna walk around saying,

1193
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 1: on my own hunt, purity scale rates like this, like

1194
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:54,679
Speaker 1: my feeling of purity on this hunt, my personal feelings

1195
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:56,680
Speaker 1: that it's eight what is your personal feeling. Oh, it's

1196
01:08:56,680 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 1: a four because you know the based on where you

1197
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,679
Speaker 1: grew up. You grew up in Texas, sitting over feeder

1198
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 1: is is fine. It could be eight or nine if

1199
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 1: you grew up in um Montana sitting over to feeders

1200
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 1: all one every time. Yes, So then what's the purpose

1201
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:14,719
Speaker 1: of having the scale for your own for your own

1202
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 1: personal satisfaction that you like? For me, this is a

1203
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 1: ten so you can communicate to other hunters where your

1204
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 1: value systems lie. That's why I believe purity scales. So

1205
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, here's where my value systems

1206
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:32,719
Speaker 1: are ten here and you're like, no, I'm a five.

1207
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,639
Speaker 1: So just doing that as opposed to just explaining your

1208
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 1: personal morals and ethics around that's why easier to put

1209
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 1: a number on it. Yeahnning than no. But I think

1210
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:45,719
Speaker 1: that's like for me, public land is more pure, so

1211
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 1: for me, I don't really care. But it's a good

1212
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 1: way to judge because everything. Everybody certainly has different perspectives

1213
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 1: as what we've said with ethics too, So that's right.

1214
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:56,640
Speaker 1: But that's right, But I can get with you on

1215
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:02,639
Speaker 1: it it being a useless U I think it's fun

1216
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:06,599
Speaker 1: you're driving around in a truck. Yeah, I'm not. I'm

1217
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 1: not saying like I would if if the law came

1218
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 1: to me and they're like, hey listen, but I'm not

1219
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:14,800
Speaker 1: gonna really like apply it to some sort of like

1220
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 1: my morals. Well we'll go through this anyway. Now we've

1221
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:24,559
Speaker 1: totally defunct this question. But because it's fun. Um, So

1222
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,679
Speaker 1: what ranks higher on the purity scale regarding archery? Antalope hunting?

1223
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:32,120
Speaker 1: Shooting an antelope from a blind on a water hole

1224
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 1: you scouted and put up weeks prior to hunting season,

1225
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 1: or shooting an antelope while driving through public land and

1226
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:41,720
Speaker 1: rolling out of a moving car to quickly run off

1227
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:46,760
Speaker 1: the road draw unreleased before the antelope runs referred to

1228
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 1: by my friends has drive by that's Marshall set or

1229
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 1: if he's got to. He seemed like two very specific

1230
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: things that probably happened during a specific hunt. So man

1231
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 1: one purity on those? I like how one. I like

1232
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 1: how one is on public land. It sounds like they're

1233
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:11,040
Speaker 1: both on public land, but he only mentions driving through

1234
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:15,719
Speaker 1: public land, So well, let's just assume they're both. Yeah,

1235
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 1: because somehow public land always makes it seem more pure

1236
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you on tough for competition usually usually

1237
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 1: animals gotta have a little more edge on them. Um.

1238
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:38,640
Speaker 1: But man, like, I really appreciate what it takes to

1239
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 1: do that scouting, to set that blind, to sit it

1240
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:45,519
Speaker 1: with the right wind. Um. You know, they're the work

1241
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 1: goes in before time, beforehand obviously, because once you're in

1242
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 1: it in that dark house, animal comes in. They really

1243
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 1: shouldn't know you're there when you get the shot. And

1244
01:11:56,600 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 1: then but then to have like the athletic prowess and

1245
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: uh spatial awareness and the you know, agility that would

1246
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 1: take to roll out of a car and as you're

1247
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:12,759
Speaker 1: rolling in the ditch knock an arrow and then come

1248
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:16,280
Speaker 1: up on a wary animal, like an animal that doesn't

1249
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: duck the string and run the creation, roll up, maintain

1250
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:25,440
Speaker 1: your composure through your draw like some character. Now yeah,

1251
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 1: that's uh yeah, So I don't know. I can't say

1252
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 1: if one of those more pure than the other. Yeah.

1253
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,639
Speaker 1: I think he might be looking for us to say

1254
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:39,759
Speaker 1: that somehow using that vehicle and rolling out of it

1255
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 1: is just sort of maybe drop it down, because I

1256
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:46,720
Speaker 1: would say, oh, if he's like, oh, well, what about

1257
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: unrolling the window and sticking your rifle out and shooting it. Well,

1258
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:52,320
Speaker 1: then it's like, sure, the other one is way more pure. Well,

1259
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 1: road hunting is always road hunting, if that's what that is,

1260
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 1: is always like this topic of in my my own

1261
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:02,320
Speaker 1: circles and just my own head a topic of debate,

1262
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 1: because there's there's places in the world where just like

1263
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 1: hunting over bait is way better. Up in Quebec, where

1264
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:13,519
Speaker 1: there's no other way to see the animals because the

1265
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 1: forest is so thick. There's some ranches that are so

1266
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 1: flat that you can't find a tip to go glass room,

1267
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:24,559
Speaker 1: you know, and Wyoming, this is the case a lot

1268
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 1: of times. It's so the way to cover country and

1269
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 1: find the animals, it's getting a car and drive around.

1270
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:31,479
Speaker 1: And these animals are used to trucks, so the mostly

1271
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: just stand there and watch you. And, Um, if while

1272
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:37,439
Speaker 1: you're driving around looking for one you'd like to shoot,

1273
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 1: one happens to be right by the road, what are

1274
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 1: you gonna do to drive drive a mile away and

1275
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 1: then walk back to it, like you know, so for

1276
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 1: me sometimes like okay, in in certain situations, driving around

1277
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:53,599
Speaker 1: looking for animals to shoot is I mean, it's not

1278
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 1: the worst thing in the world. No. But again, I

1279
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 1: think it's one of those things that most people that

1280
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 1: are truly really hunters. I'm speaking from my own experience

1281
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:05,600
Speaker 1: because in Nebraska what I've done a fair amount of

1282
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 1: deer hunting, it is legal to shoot out of the

1283
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 1: car once you're off I think it's off the county road.

1284
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:14,720
Speaker 1: You have to be all yeah, yeah, you have to

1285
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 1: be on a fourth service road. In Montana that same

1286
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:18,720
Speaker 1: you have to be here, it's the county road. You

1287
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 1: have to be certain. Yeah. But I don't think you

1288
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:22,400
Speaker 1: can shoot out of the vehicle. No, you can't shootut

1289
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:25,439
Speaker 1: of it. No, No, but in Nebraska you can. Don't

1290
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 1: get out of the car just leaning over the rear

1291
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:34,439
Speaker 1: view mirror caught loose while you're listening to Jimmie Hendrix. Um,

1292
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 1: we had a season where the right group of people

1293
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 1: were there that were all like, very excited about this

1294
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 1: opportunity to do that. We did a bunch of it.

1295
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:45,680
Speaker 1: You could kill a bunch of deer. I think we

1296
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 1: had twenty some deer hanging in the tree by the

1297
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 1: end of the week. Um. Subsequent years we just never

1298
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:56,519
Speaker 1: did that again. Everybody was like, you know what, that

1299
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 1: was a thing that we did, and now we're going

1300
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 1: to choose to to a spot park and go walk

1301
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 1: and hunt, because that's how we prefer to do. I'm

1302
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:08,640
Speaker 1: d I would never put myself in the situation to

1303
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 1: go drive around like. That's not what I would choose

1304
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:14,280
Speaker 1: to do. I would always put myself a situation where

1305
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:18,120
Speaker 1: I knew, you know, walking was the way, like and

1306
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:20,400
Speaker 1: and you know ship when we were in Mexico last year,

1307
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 1: you could just as easily killed a nice cues buck

1308
01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 1: for getting in the getting in the old side by

1309
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 1: side riding around, I think just as easily as glass

1310
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:34,360
Speaker 1: and went up. I cover more country, you'll run into

1311
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 1: one eventually. You should try that this year back down

1312
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:41,760
Speaker 1: next year we're back down there. I want to see

1313
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:44,599
Speaker 1: how it goes. I'll let you know my purity scale.

1314
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 1: Three days they do it well, I'll be chasing them

1315
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:51,000
Speaker 1: all over the all over the branch. It's kind of funny,

1316
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 1: but but they're they're such a it's always you bump

1317
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:56,519
Speaker 1: into him here and there and doing that. Um so

1318
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 1: you gotta have your rifle ready though, get ready. But yeah,

1319
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,680
Speaker 1: and I think I would always like having done those

1320
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 1: things before, saying with high fence, having done them just

1321
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:09,439
Speaker 1: like your question around, like shooting pratt coyotes or whacking

1322
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:11,080
Speaker 1: a bunch of hogs. Having done them, I now know

1323
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,880
Speaker 1: for my own personal purity score that ain't the way.

1324
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 1: So I'm never gonna put myself a situation where you know,

1325
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 1: I'm hunting a ranch where driving around is the only

1326
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 1: way to get it done. And it might be like

1327
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 1: the purity scale of a the some of of a

1328
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 1: week of hunting, where you have you've been pounding it

1329
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 1: for five days all over the mountains, no luck. On

1330
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:38,000
Speaker 1: the sixth day, you're driving home from the morning hunt,

1331
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 1: back to the lodge or camp or wherever, and all

1332
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:44,240
Speaker 1: of a sudden there's ex animal like just rolling over

1333
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:47,639
Speaker 1: the ridge. Dude, I'm bailing out. I'm gonna go chase

1334
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 1: after it, or bailing out and laying down and get

1335
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 1: my right up for a shot. The only moose I

1336
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 1: ever shot in my life, I was with Joe Rogan

1337
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,680
Speaker 1: Nu shot a moose that we were driving over to

1338
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 1: park and get wall cut blocks, and two giant bulls

1339
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: across the road. I jumped out, jump across the bar

1340
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,800
Speaker 1: dish ran up into the field and shot one. And

1341
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:09,760
Speaker 1: I was super happy about that, Like I'm not I

1342
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 1: don't feel like that was a bad experience. We hunted

1343
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:14,880
Speaker 1: hard and that's what happened to be where the one was.

1344
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:16,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, putting yourself in a situation, why I'm hunting

1345
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 1: this ranch in New Mexico where you know, you really

1346
01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 1: just have to drive around. That's really the only way

1347
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 1: to get a look at you know, what's there, or

1348
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 1: sit a water hole or whatever. Um if I had

1349
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:30,719
Speaker 1: to pick, I'd sit a water hole, and so purity,

1350
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:33,760
Speaker 1: I gave the water all the wind over jumping out

1351
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:36,679
Speaker 1: of any vehicle and doing anything, no matter how rambo

1352
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 1: you look. Because I I wonder I have to ask Marshall,

1353
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:44,880
Speaker 1: did somebody actually fucking do that? I know guys that

1354
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:48,800
Speaker 1: roll that program with mule Deer in Kansas. Yeah, my

1355
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:52,200
Speaker 1: dad just my dad was just out in Montana here

1356
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 1: and and uh and broadest where it's flat, and then

1357
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:56,680
Speaker 1: you came back from a guided hunt. He was like,

1358
01:17:56,720 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have liked that. I was like, well, you

1359
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 1: mean I wouldn't like that. He's like, yeah, it was

1360
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:04,080
Speaker 1: drive around the trucks spotting deer. You see, when you

1361
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:06,560
Speaker 1: want to get out and go after it, if you

1362
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:08,240
Speaker 1: don't get to go back to the truck drive around

1363
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 1: some more and I was like, yeah, you're right. I

1364
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,600
Speaker 1: would not have liked that. But for him, you know,

1365
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 1: he enjoyed himself. So I'm not gonna but I don't

1366
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 1: judge you for that. He's sixty some years old. It

1367
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 1: signed his whole life. That's you know, that's the way

1368
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:23,840
Speaker 1: that that went with the challenge. He felt challenge. It

1369
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:25,640
Speaker 1: was cold that that they had to look over a

1370
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:27,880
Speaker 1: lot of country. They did, you know, a lot of

1371
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun and it was more about

1372
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 1: the people and the experience and seeing the country. And

1373
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:35,880
Speaker 1: he brought home like he was just about out of meat,

1374
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 1: brought home some meat. He was super happy with him.

1375
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:41,200
Speaker 1: So purity scaled ten. That's great for me, Like, I'm

1376
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:44,400
Speaker 1: happy that he's happy. So when it comes down to that,

1377
01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 1: like you got people in your clothes hunting circles that

1378
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:49,200
Speaker 1: are doing stuff like that, fucking just be supportive if

1379
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:53,400
Speaker 1: they're not being fully morally assholes or you know, be supportive.

1380
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 1: I would say, at the end of the day, if

1381
01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:58,519
Speaker 1: they're not doing something you feel like you have to question, Yeah,

1382
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:01,639
Speaker 1: and again a lot of times for yeah, a lot

1383
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:05,240
Speaker 1: of times your morals if you're having questions about your

1384
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:08,880
Speaker 1: personal morals and ethics around hunting. If you follow the rags,

1385
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:12,599
Speaker 1: you're probably going to be falling in a pretty safe

1386
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:17,679
Speaker 1: place and most people will be like, say, you're responsible. Okay.

1387
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 1: Last one, what's your take on shooting does with fawn

1388
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 1: slash deer of that year? I've always been of the

1389
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:30,000
Speaker 1: opinion that once the spots are gone, they are able

1390
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:34,320
Speaker 1: to survive on their own. That doesn't sound right, meaning

1391
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,360
Speaker 1: they are not relying on mother's milk. So if I

1392
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:40,200
Speaker 1: choose to shoot the mother, I don't have to worry

1393
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:45,160
Speaker 1: about the fawns survival. And he goes over some some

1394
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 1: This is Corey Dukehardt, by the way, and he goes

1395
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:51,800
Speaker 1: over some situational stuff that um that he's done. But

1396
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 1: he hunts a lot for meat and it's had some

1397
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:57,599
Speaker 1: situations where he's wanted to shoot a nice, big fat

1398
01:19:57,600 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 1: dough for meat and she's had some young uns with her,

1399
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 1: and he's had to make some tough decisions ethical decisions

1400
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 1: around that. Uh, what do you think Corey Ducard should do? Yanni,

1401
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:15,200
Speaker 1: No problem, No problem, am no ethical conundrum for me.

1402
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:18,160
Speaker 1: Where you draw the line is it spots? Is it

1403
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:22,160
Speaker 1: one year? Two years? I think that the biologists have

1404
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:26,160
Speaker 1: thought that through that set up your hunting seasons, and

1405
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:29,160
Speaker 1: that if there was a risk of you know, hurting

1406
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 1: the population, the population dynamics, herd health, whatever it might

1407
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:38,840
Speaker 1: be because you're shooting cows or does too close to

1408
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,760
Speaker 1: breeding seat or too close to gestation or whatever like, Yeah,

1409
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 1: then they wouldn't have that. I agree with that. I

1410
01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:48,240
Speaker 1: think that's a pretty simple one and that's the right answer.

1411
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:52,880
Speaker 1: I killed the big fat dough in Michigan last week

1412
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:57,720
Speaker 1: that had two dough two phones with her, and uh,

1413
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:01,599
Speaker 1: I felt a little bad about it. I did those

1414
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 1: fawns like they have to do hung around. I was

1415
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 1: just gonna ask you that because I've had that. Yeah,

1416
01:21:06,439 --> 01:21:09,040
Speaker 1: once be kind of disappeared, like once all the deer

1417
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 1: blew out from the shot. But then they're just happened

1418
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:14,559
Speaker 1: to be these two funds that kept kind of circling through,

1419
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:20,400
Speaker 1: you know. Um, But yeah, I'm not gonna anthropomorphis. It's

1420
01:21:20,479 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 1: like that's like the Kingdom and they're like they're going

1421
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:27,720
Speaker 1: to figure out their own thing within hours and be

1422
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:32,960
Speaker 1: good for him. Probably not UM. When I was young, young,

1423
01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:37,680
Speaker 1: maybe fifteen sixteen, I shot though one like open day

1424
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:42,679
Speaker 1: rival season with a family friend, and I remember walking

1425
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:44,439
Speaker 1: up on the stone and being super excited and then

1426
01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:48,640
Speaker 1: looking across and seeing a couple of fawns, you know,

1427
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 1: fifty yards away that I hadn't seen, and being like

1428
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 1: just sad, really sad because I'm gutting this deer. At

1429
01:21:56,840 --> 01:22:00,080
Speaker 1: these deer circling me in fifty yards, you know, M

1430
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:02,880
Speaker 1: doing that thing where they're like breaking their neck to

1431
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:04,599
Speaker 1: look and see what you're doing, whether that it's their

1432
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:07,720
Speaker 1: mom or not, you know, type of thing. So they're

1433
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:10,479
Speaker 1: not actually thinking that no, no, no, but they're like,

1434
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:12,519
Speaker 1: what happened there? I think they're more just confused about

1435
01:22:12,520 --> 01:22:14,760
Speaker 1: what the hell just happened than they are. But there's

1436
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:17,559
Speaker 1: no way to note that, right, I don't know, And

1437
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:23,559
Speaker 1: so I remember being like, very briefly like I'm not

1438
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 1: doing this again, but then pretty quickly realizing that's kind

1439
01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:33,120
Speaker 1: of the risk you take when you're doing it. Like

1440
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:35,880
Speaker 1: you said, I mean, it's kind of what you're doing

1441
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 1: every time you go out and kill something. So if

1442
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:43,639
Speaker 1: you're shooting does, you're kind of doing it every time.

1443
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:47,639
Speaker 1: A lot of people have an ethical conundrum with UH, like,

1444
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,160
Speaker 1: is there a certain age that you should let an

1445
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 1: animal get to before you kill it. Yeah, I mean

1446
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:58,840
Speaker 1: we definitely with with livestock, with factory farming, have got

1447
01:22:58,920 --> 01:23:01,800
Speaker 1: rid of that. You ever you have veal or you know,

1448
01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:05,280
Speaker 1: anything of that nature. We've definitely not say, hey, listen,

1449
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:07,880
Speaker 1: the cow has to be grass fed, free range and

1450
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:10,160
Speaker 1: three years old. We don't. We don't do that. We

1451
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 1: don't do that at all. In fact, we do the opposite,

1452
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:16,120
Speaker 1: you know, like hey, as fast as fat as possible.

1453
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:21,000
Speaker 1: And so if you're just talking to meat wise, then

1454
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:24,080
Speaker 1: you you kind there's a parallel there to me, and

1455
01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:27,520
Speaker 1: I'm not you know, nobody's shooting does for the you know, trophies.

1456
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:31,920
Speaker 1: Most people shooting does are doing it for the meat. Cows. Saying,

1457
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:35,920
Speaker 1: any any female critter you shoot, you're mostly time shooting

1458
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:37,559
Speaker 1: it for the meat, I would say, And I can't

1459
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:39,360
Speaker 1: think of an issue what any other way you would

1460
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 1: be doing it? Um and as you're purely doing population control,

1461
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,680
Speaker 1: which you should still eat to meet anyway. So so

1462
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,760
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I mean, shoot the dough and eat

1463
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:53,519
Speaker 1: the meat. And if you're doing that, you're fine. Yep,

1464
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 1: don't worry about take a mom out of the herd.

1465
01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:01,840
Speaker 1: Don't worry about it. Well, it's still snowing out here

1466
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:05,479
Speaker 1: in bows Man. Yeah. I think we're supposed to get

1467
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:08,040
Speaker 1: a few inches out of it. Mostly we're gonna get

1468
01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:10,800
Speaker 1: some cold. I think it's going single digit tonight, That's

1469
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:14,720
Speaker 1: what they say. I like it for now. Come see

1470
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:17,000
Speaker 1: me in February and I'll let you know. Is it

1471
01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:21,280
Speaker 1: just it's not December yet? Um? But it's it's been nice.

1472
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:24,760
Speaker 1: It's been like the perfect call. I think. I'm I'm like,

1473
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:27,080
Speaker 1: you know, come too early. Now we're not sitting here

1474
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:29,000
Speaker 1: going oh man, I hope it starts snowing like we're

1475
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 1: getting some snow. It's good being a new Bosman Bozeman

1476
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:40,920
Speaker 1: Indian bows Man in person, I feel like some of

1477
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:45,000
Speaker 1: the winter stuff maybe a little bit overstated. But I

1478
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 1: mean it gets cold here, and but I think it's

1479
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:49,519
Speaker 1: such a it's such a great place to live. People

1480
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:51,880
Speaker 1: have them very much to complain about, so they just

1481
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:54,680
Speaker 1: roll it into like what's the one bad thing that

1482
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:57,960
Speaker 1: gets really cold? But I mean it's back where I'm

1483
01:24:57,960 --> 01:24:59,880
Speaker 1: from in Maryland, it's no you know, six eight in

1484
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:02,920
Speaker 1: is yesterday and there was forty degrees here and really nice.

1485
01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 1: So I mean it's just it's situational people like talk

1486
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 1: about the weather. That's rights your Thanksgiving look like there, John, Uh,

1487
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:14,800
Speaker 1: you know, we've got some friends in town. Were not

1488
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:17,360
Speaker 1: doing any family, not doing any traveling friends in town.

1489
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:20,240
Speaker 1: We're gonna do a friends giving, they like to call it.

1490
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:25,240
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I have a very loud room

1491
01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:30,000
Speaker 1: full of kids and uh, otherwise I'm gonna do some

1492
01:25:30,120 --> 01:25:35,200
Speaker 1: hunting around Thanksgiving. Very nice, very nice to walk the

1493
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:40,760
Speaker 1: mountains beautiful. I'll be back in Maryland with my family. Yeah,

1494
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 1: we're last last week there. I don't have a bunch

1495
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:46,160
Speaker 1: of family in town. Do that. Uh, maybe get out

1496
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:49,080
Speaker 1: hunted day. I doubt it, but maybe. And then uh,

1497
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:51,400
Speaker 1: we're coming back to Bozeman for good. I'm closing our

1498
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:58,599
Speaker 1: house in permanent residents. Nice. We're excited. Hopefully we solved

1499
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 1: all your ethical you'll have another ethical quandary about coyotes

1500
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:06,120
Speaker 1: or shooting does or anything like that, because Janni has

1501
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:10,400
Speaker 1: you asked the eagle, and the Eagle answered. Thanks for

1502
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:13,080
Speaker 1: having me on, Ben, It's fun. Thanks for coming on, Yannie.

1503
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:20,280
Speaker 1: That's it. That's all. This episode of the Hunting Collective

1504
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:23,759
Speaker 1: is finished. Thank you to all of you for sending

1505
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:29,719
Speaker 1: in your questions. Your ethical quandries, and thanks to Janni

1506
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:33,719
Speaker 1: Pitelis for helping me do my best to answer those

1507
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:37,519
Speaker 1: to give our perspectives. Well, what's up with all these

1508
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:41,360
Speaker 1: difficult situations out in the woods. We've all been there,

1509
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:46,840
Speaker 1: so again, great podcast, thanks for tuning in? And uh,

1510
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 1: next week? What's up next week? Who we got next week?

1511
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:55,120
Speaker 1: Oh ship, we got Charles Post. Charles Post coming up

1512
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:57,519
Speaker 1: next week. Now, Charles has already been on twice, but

1513
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: I wanted to catch up with Charles and in that

1514
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:04,840
Speaker 1: one about grizzly bears and wildfires and all kinds of

1515
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 1: great topics. So hopefully you'll listen next week for that

1516
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:12,160
Speaker 1: one another episode of Hunting Collective. Until then, go to

1517
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:14,519
Speaker 1: the Mediator dot com. You'll find everything Hunting Collective there.

1518
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:18,720
Speaker 1: The Hunting Collective dot com is kind of dormant as

1519
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:21,280
Speaker 1: we move the business over to Meetia and Incorporated and

1520
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:24,400
Speaker 1: have everything living on the Mediator dot com. So if

1521
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:27,240
Speaker 1: you want to get everything in your inbox every single week,

1522
01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:30,439
Speaker 1: do me a favor and go over there and sign

1523
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:33,400
Speaker 1: up for the newsletter, because the newsletter just comes right

1524
01:27:33,439 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 1: to your inbox and you click on that sucker and

1525
01:27:35,280 --> 01:27:37,759
Speaker 1: it'll be everything you want to know. From Steve Ronella,

1526
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:41,200
Speaker 1: from me from April Bokey from our Kenyon, from Pat Durkin,

1527
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:43,120
Speaker 1: from just a bunch of people, a bunch of really

1528
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:46,000
Speaker 1: smart people. So get over there, sign up for that

1529
01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 1: and let me know that you did. Hopefully you enjoy it.

1530
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:56,040
Speaker 1: Until next time, thanks for joining us on the Hunting Collective.

1531
01:27:56,200 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 1: By one