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Speaker 1: Last minute tickets Lord's Price guaranteed. What's up, everybody, Welcome
Speaker 1: back to the Draymond Green Show. I am excited to
Speaker 1: have this next guest. Um, in my opinion, the founding
Speaker 1: father of the Five five, the leader, UM, the person
Speaker 1: who really embodied that spirit. Now, as you know, I
Speaker 1: can't really be too fond of that, being that it's
Speaker 1: from the other school. However, you know, you grow up
Speaker 1: in the state of Michigan. Really, you grow up anywhere,
Speaker 1: and you watch basketball. If you know anything, you knew
Speaker 1: something about the Five five, and obviously growing up in
Speaker 1: the state of Michigan, it's all right there. From Detroit
Speaker 1: Southwestern High schoolte pick in the NBA Draft by the
Speaker 1: Denver Nuggets, Jalen Rose my brother more like more like
Speaker 1: an uncle of mine. I appreciate you for coming on,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Appreciate the love you're killing and
Speaker 1: keep doing your thing. Absolutely, I appreciate you, I mean
Speaker 1: just getting right into it. Um. I get a lot
Speaker 1: of credit for being the first active player. UM doing
Speaker 1: TV that's actually you, that's actually you. How how did
Speaker 1: you go about way back I think in two thousand
Speaker 1: and six you did the playoffs, you were still playing.
Speaker 1: How did you go about way back then? And um
Speaker 1: saying I'm gonna start doing media right now as an
Speaker 1: active player. So the crazy thing is like growing up
Speaker 1: in the city, being a fan of the game, looking
Speaker 1: up to the bad boys, looking up to Magic Johnson.
Speaker 1: But also my favorite athletes had personality. They were flamboyant.
Speaker 1: They do only not only dressed loud like Diana Sanders
Speaker 1: or Clyde Fraser, but they also talked loud like Mohammad Ali,
Speaker 1: and those voices is something that I always appreciated, following
Speaker 1: Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Bill Russell and just how they
Speaker 1: were athletes, but they were more than jocks. And so
Speaker 1: when I got to college when it was trying to
Speaker 1: pick a major, I wanted communications to be that. So
Speaker 1: Radio TV Film became my major and I took those
Speaker 1: classes at Michigan, went there three years, eventually went back
Speaker 1: and got my degree. So while I was playing in
Speaker 1: the league, and it's crazy how this works. I remember
Speaker 1: feeling like like you're a good player, but you ain't magic,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And that happed me one day,
Speaker 1: like like, you got a chance to do this for
Speaker 1: a while, but you need to find something else to do,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And my first couple of
Speaker 1: years starting and coming off the bench and then getting
Speaker 1: trade to Indiana with Larry Brown gave me fifteen d
Speaker 1: m p s. I was like, I don't know if
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a thirteen year career. So I started
Speaker 1: to figure other things that I could do in the
Speaker 1: game that I love. And once I got traded from
Speaker 1: the Patients to the Bulls, it was February this time
Speaker 1: of the year and the team had nine wins and like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, we ain't going to the playoffs for Shure.
Speaker 1: So this was two thousand and two. I reached out
Speaker 1: to a contact and B team, Matt Sports, because I
Speaker 1: had just done the show and I just done one
Speaker 1: O six in part, and I pitched the idea for
Speaker 1: e T to let me cover the finals for them.
Speaker 1: At the time, it was New Jersey Nets and the Lakers.
Speaker 1: I was like, just sending the camera, I'll get the access,
Speaker 1: I'll do all of that. So they trusted me they
Speaker 1: did it, so they sent the cameras, we cut it,
Speaker 1: we spiced it, we edited, they showed it on TV
Speaker 1: and then I pitched that same idea to the Best
Speaker 1: Dance Sports Show the next year, and they already had
Speaker 1: big Bro John Sally who was doing TV and at
Speaker 1: the time, Jason Williams from the Nets. I saw him
Speaker 1: doing some stuff with NBC while he was still playing
Speaker 1: and the mad Rashot. I saw him kind of more
Speaker 1: from doing football to doing basketball. So those are guys.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I'm about to try
Speaker 1: to do this while I'm playing. So they hired me.
Speaker 1: So I was in the league two thousand and three
Speaker 1: to two thousand and seven playing while I was still
Speaker 1: working for Best Dance Sports Show, MTV Movie Awards. I
Speaker 1: was doing halftime with Bill Walton and Snapper. I was
Speaker 1: doing boxing for Top Rank. I was doing all of
Speaker 1: that stuff. And so when I retired to two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven and I was doing sideline for T and T.
Speaker 1: I worked with T and T for a couple of years.
Speaker 1: The famous video Nick Vanax and my brother throwing the
Speaker 1: towel at me when I was standing on the sideline
Speaker 1: and I just kept going and so in two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven when I retired, that's when I started working
Speaker 1: full time for ESPN. That's I actually didn't even know
Speaker 1: about all the BT stuff. So I appreciate that. I
Speaker 1: think UM did when I started this podcast last year,
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe a little different because I was
Speaker 1: doing it after game, but I caught a lot of
Speaker 1: heat for actively doing a podcast and providing the content
Speaker 1: that I was providing during the final, during the playoffs,
Speaker 1: during the finals, I caught a lot of heat for
Speaker 1: when you first started doing that. Did you catch a
Speaker 1: lot of heat? And I know it's different, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't social media and all of that stuff, But did
Speaker 1: you catch heat for that when you first started doing it? Absolutely, Because,
Speaker 1: as you know, in order to be colorful and or
Speaker 1: good at this job, that means you gotta say something.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people that's vanilla and don't say nothing.
Speaker 1: But you and I are strong will, strong opinion, and
Speaker 1: we ain't scared to stand on it. And what ends
Speaker 1: on how ends up happening, is why you still playing.
Speaker 1: I'm still running into these players, into these coaches, into
Speaker 1: the managers, into the agents and the fans also, and
Speaker 1: so guys used to sometimes take it personal. Oh man,
Speaker 1: how are you gonna call me out like that? Or whatever?
Speaker 1: I'm like, dog, you had six points and eight turnovers,
Speaker 1: like what you expect me to say? You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like And what ends up happening is people
Speaker 1: start to earn your You start to earn the respect
Speaker 1: of the players and of the coaches and of everybody
Speaker 1: when they know when you speak, not only are you knowledgeable,
Speaker 1: but it ain't personal, Like I ain't got nothing personal
Speaker 1: against you. I'm just saying what I see, giving my opinion.
Speaker 1: When you do poor, I'm gonna say it. When you
Speaker 1: do great, I'm gonna big you up. And I know
Speaker 1: you noticed this quick. You can big up people all
Speaker 1: day and they never shout you. They never say thank you,
Speaker 1: they never give love. But soon as you criticize them
Speaker 1: or call him out for some bs that they did,
Speaker 1: then they want to add you. Then they want to
Speaker 1: get but hurt. And so that's when I learned at
Speaker 1: that time, I'm gonna just stay authentic, be authentic to myself.
Speaker 1: And when I started to do that, I started to
Speaker 1: see me get results. You know. One of the one
Speaker 1: of the things that I wanted to do, especially that
Speaker 1: I'm actively playing is. I felt like I needed to
Speaker 1: find a balance of like um authenticity and telling the
Speaker 1: truth UM and being very critical, but doing it in
Speaker 1: a way where like, I still got to play these guys.
Speaker 1: I still have to play possibly with some of these guys.
Speaker 1: And I felt like that was one of the biggest
Speaker 1: things that I adjustments that I had to make and
Speaker 1: go on in the TV right now. And I spoke
Speaker 1: about this before one one instant that made me really
Speaker 1: happy because it was actually my first time doing T
Speaker 1: and T UM. I was doing the segment or and
Speaker 1: we were doing the Denver Nuggets game they were in
Speaker 1: the playoffs, was during the bubble and Joker and I
Speaker 1: pointed out his defense that he's the low man, he's
Speaker 1: the back, he's the center. He has to be everybody's eyes,
Speaker 1: he has to be the communication. He has to cover
Speaker 1: up everybody mistakes if somebody breaks down the defense, and
Speaker 1: he was missing his rotations, and so I pointed it
Speaker 1: out on TV, and I tried to do it in
Speaker 1: a way of like not bashing him, but letting the
Speaker 1: world know, like this is an issue. And when I
Speaker 1: saw him the following year, he said to me said, Hey,
Speaker 1: I talked, I saw your comments about my defense. I've
Speaker 1: gotten better and I appreciate it. It gave me so
Speaker 1: much confidence in TV like and doing TV like, Oh
Speaker 1: so I could, I can't do it. It gave me
Speaker 1: so much confidence. That was a very huge moment for me.
Speaker 1: That is that is huge. But here's what you also know,
Speaker 1: and you know this balance. Anytime you see a player
Speaker 1: doing this job, we're only really saying like what we
Speaker 1: really know facts, you know, like we know everything. So
Speaker 1: it's like if I'm on TV and I'm talking about
Speaker 1: somebody had a bad game, I know where it was
Speaker 1: at last night. I know who they was with. I
Speaker 1: know what time they got out. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: I probably was with him. You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So now when I'm on TV, if I'm speaking on
Speaker 1: what happened in the game, they know it ain't personal,
Speaker 1: but they know I ain't saying everything that I could say.
Speaker 1: And that's what the Joker felt about you. He saw
Speaker 1: you breaking it down and giving knowledge, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: like you was trying to clown him or disrespect him.
Speaker 1: And so that to me is when I started to
Speaker 1: draw the line because I don't like media members that
Speaker 1: name call. And so I remember when I was making
Speaker 1: my bones and I was doing first take and I
Speaker 1: was doing the show with Kid Bayless. I used to
Speaker 1: sit back and take notes and it's a debate show.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, wait a minute, he calling Chris bosh
Speaker 1: Spice like like like like this is really happening like that.
Speaker 1: That bugged me out, you know what I'm saying. And
Speaker 1: so I'm like, all right, I'm gonna have to have
Speaker 1: some material ready for this dude, because if he come
Speaker 1: at me like that, I got the jab, I got
Speaker 1: the head shot, I got the body blow, I got
Speaker 1: whatever he gonna need. Because I don't like the name calling.
Speaker 1: I think that went too far. Like I've seen him
Speaker 1: do this recently with Dak Prescott when he had just
Speaker 1: lost a family member, I believe, and he was dealing
Speaker 1: with some issues, and Homie was like basically saying, I
Speaker 1: don't care about this mental wellness. And so those are
Speaker 1: the examples for me that give us a different level
Speaker 1: of credibility that can never be matched because we could
Speaker 1: be authentic and say a portion of what we know
Speaker 1: without saying too much, but yet know what not to
Speaker 1: say to make it personal. And speaking of that, I
Speaker 1: always I always talk about this turn new media and
Speaker 1: old media, and quite frankly, people has always assumed that
Speaker 1: when I say new media, I'm talking about basketball players,
Speaker 1: current players or like, like it's this actual thing of
Speaker 1: new media. And reality is when I speak of new media,
Speaker 1: I'd be speaking of a way of going about the job,
Speaker 1: because I think the way people used to go about
Speaker 1: the job, in the way people go about it today,
Speaker 1: it's totally different. And and so I speak of new media,
Speaker 1: and I always say, like, it's truth telling, it's being
Speaker 1: upfront and honest, you know, it's it's it's actually analyzing
Speaker 1: the game and not just going with this statue and saying,
Speaker 1: oh man, this guy played bad because he missed shots.
Speaker 1: Like no, he could have played an incredible game and
Speaker 1: missed those shots, you know. And so when I speak
Speaker 1: about new media, but there's also this new way of
Speaker 1: doing things. And then there are the skip bayliss Is
Speaker 1: of the world that are old media, like it's tired,
Speaker 1: it's all in it, Uh, what do you make of
Speaker 1: new medias? And and and also but player driven media
Speaker 1: as opposed to the old fashioned way of media and
Speaker 1: kind of how we're seeing the change of the guard.
Speaker 1: Not in a sense because there's still a space for that,
Speaker 1: but there's a space for both. What do you make
Speaker 1: of that whole thing? The thing I make of it,
Speaker 1: first off is I love the term and it reminded
Speaker 1: me like, this is my twentieth year cover in the finals, right,
Speaker 1: And so what ends up happening is when you come
Speaker 1: onto the scene and you say the term new media.
Speaker 1: It reminded me of like an old school rapper for example,
Speaker 1: or somebody that's been out for a while, and then
Speaker 1: somebody else coming to the game and people try to
Speaker 1: put us against each other. I saw that happen when
Speaker 1: Lebron started his school and if I'll be on TV
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yo, Lebron did this, they lost the
Speaker 1: game or whatever whatever, people like, oh, he just jealous
Speaker 1: because Lebron started to school. I'm like like, like, I
Speaker 1: want all people to to to give back to their
Speaker 1: community and started school. I'm not quote unquote jealous because
Speaker 1: his school got more hyped, like he's one of the
Speaker 1: most famous people that ever walked to earth. Like I'm
Speaker 1: happy that he did it, because now it's how it's
Speaker 1: almost like this Michael Jackson wasn't the first person to
Speaker 1: do the moonwalk. He popularized it. And that's what Lebron
Speaker 1: now can do for people like me when he starts
Speaker 1: to school. It's the same thing when you say new media.
Speaker 1: People's coming to me like, what trade mind talking about?
Speaker 1: You were doing that twenty years ago. I'm like, First off,
Speaker 1: that's family, we ain't even doing that. Second off, he's right,
Speaker 1: And what you're talking about is the ability aid to
Speaker 1: articulate the game and be unapologetic. See, at first, when
Speaker 1: we got into this gig kind of had to walk
Speaker 1: on eggshells. There was there was times where family. I
Speaker 1: stopped wearing ear rings because they was frowned upon. I
Speaker 1: always wore long sleeves because tattoos wasn't necessarily welcome. I
Speaker 1: wore my hair a certain way. I always wore tying
Speaker 1: the blazer because the game was different then. Now, for me,
Speaker 1: new media is saying what you feel, dressing how you feel,
Speaker 1: driving how you want to whip, and then having a
Speaker 1: way to articulate your self that you're speaking the language
Speaker 1: other people that you play with. See when you see me,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm rocking with y'all, rocking listening to the music
Speaker 1: that y'all listening to. And so for me is it's
Speaker 1: up to the guys that's been doing it a long
Speaker 1: time to stay current, not the other way around. And
Speaker 1: so when I saw c J get eliminated with Portland
Speaker 1: and he was covering y'all, I pulled a nephew to
Speaker 1: the side. We got numbers, we exchange. I remember when
Speaker 1: he got drafted. I said that he was gonna be
Speaker 1: that same with j J Reddick saying whatever. And so
Speaker 1: the more of us they get into it, and the
Speaker 1: more we support one another, that now changes the entire
Speaker 1: narrative where we're all pulling together and we're all saying
Speaker 1: it absolutely I agree on Um, you just spoke about school.
Speaker 1: I got a couple of questions about school number one. Um,
Speaker 1: the Jalen Rose Charter Academy. Um, how did you get
Speaker 1: into starting that? And what do you need to continue
Speaker 1: to make that the success has been but also continue
Speaker 1: to take it to new heights because you continue to
Speaker 1: get it better and better and make it better and
Speaker 1: improving it. But what do you need to continue to
Speaker 1: take that the new heis to get these kids the
Speaker 1: opportunities that you've been affording to them. So you and
Speaker 1: I from the hood hood, and like, when you be
Speaker 1: out there balling, there's a reason why I be singing
Speaker 1: sacking all pride since the day you got drafted, because
Speaker 1: I remember you in high school and in college, and
Speaker 1: I know where you're from and when you come from
Speaker 1: where we come from. You know, the difference is money.
Speaker 1: The quality of your education. Unfortunately in the United States
Speaker 1: is defined by your zip code. And it ain't just education,
Speaker 1: it's the protection from the police if you make a
Speaker 1: nine one one call. Is fire, is deserts where you
Speaker 1: can't get a quality supermarket when you're in the hood.
Speaker 1: Is fast food, funeral homes, flower shops, gas station's, party stores.
Speaker 1: That's what we see. We see depression, you see poverty.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, how can I give back
Speaker 1: to my community? And I'm gonna be frank with you
Speaker 1: in a way. We're mass media, and people who don't
Speaker 1: look like me can't block me, even if they don't
Speaker 1: want me to do what I'm doing when I say
Speaker 1: I'm doing it for the sake of education, even if
Speaker 1: they're not gonna give me a dime, and even if
Speaker 1: they don't want to see me educating the kids that
Speaker 1: I'm educating. They can't say it out loud. It's almost
Speaker 1: like when white people listen to rap music. At some
Speaker 1: point when you're saying the lyrics, you're gonna say all
Speaker 1: of the lyrics. That's a fact. You're gonna say all
Speaker 1: of the lyrics. You just gotta watch where you're saying them, right.
Speaker 1: And so I realized that inner city students in Detroit
Speaker 1: we're getting like eight thousand dollars a year, while the
Speaker 1: suburban counterparts were getting doubled at and then the families
Speaker 1: who are fortunate enough to put their kids in private
Speaker 1: school that costs like forty dollars a year, and you
Speaker 1: can start doing that K through two or three years,
Speaker 1: K through one or two. So now that's like a
Speaker 1: five hundred thousand dollar investment in that student, or the
Speaker 1: suburban students like a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars investment,
Speaker 1: where the students from my community were only getting like
Speaker 1: nineties six thousand dollars. So how do I put them
Speaker 1: in position to compete for the same jobs, for the
Speaker 1: same careers, for the same opportunities, and put themselves in
Speaker 1: position to be successful. I'm gonna start a school open enrollment,
Speaker 1: tuition free, public charter. I'm not a part of a network.
Speaker 1: I don't test students in before ninth grade. I don't
Speaker 1: test students in after ninth grade. And here's the kicker.
Speaker 1: United States don't look at us like we're cute and
Speaker 1: cuddly when we're in high school anymore. A lot of
Speaker 1: times when people want to influence us, they want to
Speaker 1: do it when we're small, because you still got parental involvement.
Speaker 1: If you acting out in class, I could call your parents.
Speaker 1: But when you get in ninth grade, these young people
Speaker 1: have been exposed to life, sex, drugs, violence, gangs, poverty,
Speaker 1: and so these relationships are a lot different. When they're
Speaker 1: on social media. Now they know what www is and
Speaker 1: they can go anywhere in the world. So we influence
Speaker 1: that four hundred high school students, and I'm influencing another
Speaker 1: six hundred and what we call secondary education. So I'm
Speaker 1: influencing them in a model called nine through sixteen because
Speaker 1: after twelfth grade, just think about it, what does your
Speaker 1: high school do for you? Nothing? Nothing, but the job
Speaker 1: ain't done. If I just came from poverty and I
Speaker 1: just graduated from high school, I'm throwing my hat in
Speaker 1: the air, but I can't put my resume nowhere and
Speaker 1: get it gig. So now I'm helping those students in
Speaker 1: community college, trade school, military, four year college, and now
Speaker 1: we're helping them be in position to be successful in life.
Speaker 1: So the thing that we need is money and awareness,
Speaker 1: and I'm continuing to try to do that, and I'm
Speaker 1: really proud of what we've accomplished over twelve years. We're
Speaker 1: fundraising right now to expand our facility. I took over
Speaker 1: a middle school, converted it into a high school, and Sally,
Speaker 1: our basketball team is never played the home game because
Speaker 1: I took over an elementary school. And when you look
Speaker 1: at our budget, I'm the founder, I'm the president of
Speaker 1: the board, I'm the chief fundraiser. And shout to my
Speaker 1: co founder, Michael Carter, Shout to all of my board members,
Speaker 1: the founding team, our students are, staff is amazing, our
Speaker 1: our school leader, Principal Lowis, our parents. They all believe
Speaker 1: in my vision. And so now for me, it's to
Speaker 1: expand the facility so I can get three more classrooms.
Speaker 1: I want to create a health and wellness space for
Speaker 1: mental health. I want to create a space for yoga
Speaker 1: where young people can be stretching and getting exposed to
Speaker 1: things while they're in the building. And I want to
Speaker 1: have a gym so that now when people come play
Speaker 1: college games or high school tournaments or proteins or whatever,
Speaker 1: we have the kind of facility that they can come
Speaker 1: and enjoy. So you took over in the elementary school.
Speaker 1: There's been um thirties high schools in Detroit clothes correct,
Speaker 1: are you not able to get access to those buildings
Speaker 1: that they've closed down. I'm about to give you some
Speaker 1: game that people don't know about education. First off, I
Speaker 1: remember trying to open the school, and this was a
Speaker 1: political cycle that people were going back and forth about
Speaker 1: public school, charter school, magnet school. I'm like, first off,
Speaker 1: I don't care what kind of school they go to.
Speaker 1: You can home school them. I'm just trying to put
Speaker 1: them in position to have a quality school to go to.
Speaker 1: And then there were people like, well, charter schools are
Speaker 1: still a students from the public schools. News flash, a
Speaker 1: charter school is a public school. That's just cap And
Speaker 1: why do people say that Because one of the largest
Speaker 1: donors of the Democratic Party is the teachers union, and
Speaker 1: so why is that so important to both of those
Speaker 1: things because if you're part of the union, you get
Speaker 1: something called tenure as a teacher. That means you could
Speaker 1: go to school for two or three years and basically
Speaker 1: never get fired, and that has nothing to do with
Speaker 1: your results. But when you go to a charter school,
Speaker 1: you give up your tenure opportunity. And so that's what
Speaker 1: they're fighting against. And then they're also fighting against the
Speaker 1: numbers of students that are in a public school building
Speaker 1: that you're talking about. You ready for this, because a
Speaker 1: public school building is gifted a charter school building, we
Speaker 1: get zero state funding for the facility. Zero, not for improvements,
Speaker 1: not for expansion, nothing. If something happens with the boiler
Speaker 1: at the school right now, if something happens with a
Speaker 1: lightbulb at the school right now, my phone ringing. Wow,
Speaker 1: you see what I'm saying. And so that's one of
Speaker 1: the dirty secrets about education, is that we get zero
Speaker 1: state funding for our facility. And so therefore that's why
Speaker 1: writing and raising and me creating awareness for the school
Speaker 1: is so very important. That's incredible. I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 1: sell checkers the next couple of weeks. I'll give my
Speaker 1: financial team and get that out absolutely amazing. Um, like
Speaker 1: the amount of like me knowing you personal amount of
Speaker 1: time that you give to that. Like I've seen you
Speaker 1: at times where your and you hustling like yo, I
Speaker 1: need to go raise his money for these kids, Like
Speaker 1: you really hustling going to do that. I got so
Speaker 1: much respect for you. Appreciate that because I think that's
Speaker 1: absolutely amazing. But continuing on along the lines of school,
Speaker 1: you said you ended up going back to finish your degree.
Speaker 1: Why was this so important for you to go back?
Speaker 1: You Jalen Rose, You're going in the TV like why
Speaker 1: was this so important for you to go back and
Speaker 1: finish your degree? Because school was actually always important to me.
Speaker 1: I never wanted to be considered a dumb jock. I
Speaker 1: hated that term. I used to see people get called that,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm gonna make sure nobody ever
Speaker 1: called me that. And then you know, the whole stigma like, oh,
Speaker 1: you play athlete, you're an athlete, you talented, so now
Speaker 1: people hooking you up with your grades or people doing
Speaker 1: your work for you and that type of stuff. So
Speaker 1: then I was like, you know, I started to take pride.
Speaker 1: And one of the funny things that happened in high
Speaker 1: school is I got a chance to take some accelerated
Speaker 1: classes because I was an honor roll student, and I
Speaker 1: heard that if you got a certain g p A
Speaker 1: and your attendance was this, that you got a chance
Speaker 1: to meet a special guest that was gonna come to
Speaker 1: the school at the end of the year for a seminar.
Speaker 1: And then I found out that guest was Irvan Magic Johnson.
Speaker 1: So I couldn't be on the basketball team all Americans
Speaker 1: and Magic come to the school and I can't go
Speaker 1: to the gym and see him. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: That would not have been a good look. So I
Speaker 1: really started to buckle down on my academics. Same when
Speaker 1: I was in Michigan. It was a was a Dean's
Speaker 1: List student at Michigan, and so at that point, I
Speaker 1: don't went to school for three years in the middle
Speaker 1: of winter, you know, it's cold outside. I might as
Speaker 1: well finished, you know what I'm saying, I might as
Speaker 1: well finish. At that point, I'm in the league taking
Speaker 1: correspondence courses. I'm like, I'm gonna finish in Michigan at
Speaker 1: the time, and this showing my age wasn't even offering
Speaker 1: the classes I needed for to allow me to graduate
Speaker 1: unless I went on campus. I'm like, I can't, I
Speaker 1: can't go on campus. So I eventually took my courses
Speaker 1: online at the University of Maryland University College, and that's
Speaker 1: actually where I got my degree from. Wait, so your
Speaker 1: degree today, it's not from the University of Michigan. Correct.
Speaker 1: They didn't even offer the classes that I needed. And
Speaker 1: I love Michigan and I hope somebody here this they
Speaker 1: should be getting at me to give me some sort
Speaker 1: of honorary degree and putting the banners back up, like
Speaker 1: I go to games now, I go. All right, I didn't.
Speaker 1: They didn't offer the classes that I needed. Just so
Speaker 1: you know, just so you know, just so we're clear,
Speaker 1: mistake you made in life that would have never happened
Speaker 1: that Michigan State. I'm just saying, I never happened that state.
Speaker 1: That's ridiculous, you know what I know. And let me
Speaker 1: just be real with you. You know, I love is
Speaker 1: absolutely and I took a visit to Michigan State. I
Speaker 1: looked up to magic, I looked up to Steve Smith's
Speaker 1: six eight big guards. No doubt I analized them. But
Speaker 1: I couldn't turn down the chance to be the fifth
Speaker 1: member of the Fat five. That's why I changed my number.
Speaker 1: I didn't wear five in high school. I wore forty two.
Speaker 1: I changed my number because I was the fifth member
Speaker 1: of the fat file to sign. That's why I changed
Speaker 1: my number. That's interesting things. Like I said, I, it's
Speaker 1: almost like you took it over though, like like the
Speaker 1: five five it became year thing. But it would make
Speaker 1: sense because you essentially made at the five five. But
Speaker 1: that's why I find that very interesting. So a lot
Speaker 1: of laws have changed in the United States of America.
Speaker 1: Drug laws have changed. We've seen people that you and
Speaker 1: I know that who had life in prison get out
Speaker 1: because laws changed and they're no longer subject to that time.
Speaker 1: The things that y'all got in trouble for, kids can
Speaker 1: now do no problem. They can make money off their likeness.
Speaker 1: They they got endorsement deals. There's kids in college making
Speaker 1: a million dollars a year, which I'm happy about, Like,
Speaker 1: get your money, it's great. I want to talk to
Speaker 1: you about the n I L too. But now that
Speaker 1: making money is legal in college, why hasn't those batters
Speaker 1: gone back up? If you're being punished, as I was thinking,
Speaker 1: about this about you guys five. I was thinking about
Speaker 1: this about Reggie Bush, like these are y'all. Y'all worked
Speaker 1: to become the five five and accomplished with y'all to
Speaker 1: accomplished Reggie Bush work, and it got snatched away because
Speaker 1: some poor kids needed some money. Now that those laws
Speaker 1: have changed, why having all of those banners going back
Speaker 1: up so and by the way, that's a Michigan thing
Speaker 1: at that point, not an n c A thing, because
Speaker 1: they can do it right now, just like you Mass
Speaker 1: did it for coach cal Um and Memphis did, just
Speaker 1: like Maurice Clarette at Ohio State. They could do it
Speaker 1: right now. For whatever reason, it just hasn't happened. And
Speaker 1: now that Jawan's leading the program, I have faith that
Speaker 1: it will happen. But to be honest, I probably shouldn't
Speaker 1: say this, but it's true. Since we didn't win it,
Speaker 1: I don't really care about those banners. I feel like
Speaker 1: it should be one banner with all of our numbers
Speaker 1: on it, or like retire our numbers, or like give
Speaker 1: us a statue of something like truly immortalize what we've done.
Speaker 1: And when you talk about what we got disciplined for,
Speaker 1: let me tell you what's crazy. It was a thing
Speaker 1: that's happened in sports because it's a remnant of slavery.
Speaker 1: And I know soon as I say this, people that
Speaker 1: don't look like us sometimes shoulder shrug and like, oh,
Speaker 1: here we go. But here's what happens the black sports,
Speaker 1: predominantly football and basketball. You're put in a position as
Speaker 1: an athlete where they could profit off of you longer
Speaker 1: and you get paid less, if you notice, in tennis
Speaker 1: and golf, in NASCAR, in hockey and all gymnastics, whatever, golf,
Speaker 1: whatever other sports, it ain't no restrictions after high school.
Speaker 1: M hmm, ain't no restrictions. They can have sponsors, they
Speaker 1: can go play, they could do what they love, and
Speaker 1: they can earn money. And by the way, you've been
Speaker 1: on the college campus, just because you wasn't getting paid,
Speaker 1: guess what the people from the student council was. They
Speaker 1: was getting paid. Other students could have jobs. So the
Speaker 1: remnants of those sports make it to where they could
Speaker 1: profit off of us as long as possible while paying
Speaker 1: us the least. And so when you have a high
Speaker 1: profile team like you and l V or John Thompson's
Speaker 1: teams at Georgetown, that all of a sudden play with
Speaker 1: an attitude. Oh man, we gotta muzzle them, We gotta,
Speaker 1: we gotta allowed them to perform. But we all want
Speaker 1: our kids dressing and looking like them. Like I remember
Speaker 1: being one of the most hated athletes. Now Jalen is
Speaker 1: a common name, like literally, and so what happens is
Speaker 1: it's one thing for Ray. It's one thing for Jalen,
Speaker 1: Chris and Jawan to go on and play long careers
Speaker 1: in the NBA and make the kind of coins that
Speaker 1: we did. It brings my heart when I look at
Speaker 1: you and l V and Anderson Hunt, the Final four
Speaker 1: m VP didn't profit off of his likeness or Jimmy
Speaker 1: King and Ray Jackson, members of the Fab five. For
Speaker 1: rachis were a shoe that we popularized. We popularized black socks.
Speaker 1: They didn't even sell black socks at the mall. Imagine
Speaker 1: if we had the trademark for long shorts. Imagine if
Speaker 1: we had the trademark for Fab five. Then you see
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. And so with all of that taking place,
Speaker 1: it just hurts me that those gentlemen ain't able to
Speaker 1: profit off of what blood, sweat and tears that they've
Speaker 1: been able to do. But I know, and it makes
Speaker 1: me smile that the young people now can because I
Speaker 1: remember being a champion for that for like thirty years
Speaker 1: and people looking at me like, oh, you should just
Speaker 1: be happy you got a scholarship. If I had a scholarship,
Speaker 1: I would know. But you ain't talented and making the
Speaker 1: school money, and therefore they're profiting off of you. Was
Speaker 1: selling your jersey and selling tickets and doing all of
Speaker 1: that and making money off the shoe company. You noticed
Speaker 1: you signed a letter of intent. You might as well
Speaker 1: sign a shoe deal. You can't go to Michigan State
Speaker 1: and whatever, wear whatever shoe you want. You gotta wear
Speaker 1: whatever you can't. And here's the here's a dirty secret
Speaker 1: about the n I l it ain't true market value.
Speaker 1: Here's why none of your sponsors could compete with the
Speaker 1: ones that the school already have. And they got the
Speaker 1: best ones, correct, correct, So they already getting top dollar
Speaker 1: from radio, from TV, from the advertisement from the shoe company.
Speaker 1: And so now you can get like, all right, you know,
Speaker 1: we'll get you something at the local gym. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. We'll get you We're gonna get you
Speaker 1: a membership for the next twelve months that type of stuff.
Speaker 1: We've seen some quarterbacks you know, get paid and the
Speaker 1: young lady um page page buckets from Connecticut get paid.
Speaker 1: It's been some individuals, but for the most part, if
Speaker 1: you notice in totality, it ain't become the mushroom effect
Speaker 1: for players getting paid to then want to go play
Speaker 1: in college like the headline is, because you're really getting
Speaker 1: the secondary market for the sponsors. Turn every Thursday into
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Speaker 1: n b A. I think when I look at the
Speaker 1: n I L and like I said, it's great that
Speaker 1: these kids are making money, but that, for instance, I
Speaker 1: think is a huge thing that will probably have learned
Speaker 1: long term effects that guys don't realize or not even gods,
Speaker 1: just students in general, guys, girls, And that is this
Speaker 1: if and which they are. You're not allowed to partner
Speaker 1: with premium brands essentially because they're gonna be in East Lansting.
Speaker 1: The top brands are going to be a sponsor of
Speaker 1: Michigan State. That's just other school before and after you.
Speaker 1: Absolutely so. And most of these college towns, I mean
Speaker 1: most of the where most of these colleges are college towns.
Speaker 1: So it's in East Lasting, it's in ann Arbor, it's
Speaker 1: some blah blah blah blah. You endorse these second tier,
Speaker 1: third tier brands for a year or two, three or
Speaker 1: four years, your name becomes synonymous with that brand. Say
Speaker 1: you then going to the NFL, You're going to the NBA.
Speaker 1: Your name is synonymous with second tier brands. If I'm
Speaker 1: merced these bands, I'm not coming to give you a deal.
Speaker 1: You don't have a premium brand, so why would I
Speaker 1: come give you? Why would I come give you a deal?
Speaker 1: And you you you haven't been aligned with premium brands.
Speaker 1: And I think that's something that that's one of the
Speaker 1: effects of of the n I L that we've yet
Speaker 1: to really see because it's so fresh. But I'm interested
Speaker 1: in seeing if people will find if that will happen.
Speaker 1: And that's a great point, and that's why I like
Speaker 1: imagine the revenue streams that the coaches get. They get
Speaker 1: money from TV, from radio, from the school, from the
Speaker 1: shoe company, endorsements and appearances. Just give us that absolutely right.
Speaker 1: Imagine if these schools had a shoe brand that was
Speaker 1: sponsoring them. It's X amount of football players on the team,
Speaker 1: say a hundred this X amount of players on the
Speaker 1: basketball team, say fifteen. If the school getting a hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty million, two hundred million, why each player can't
Speaker 1: get a million? Mm hmm hm. I agree that the
Speaker 1: school can do that, they're choosing not to. They're not
Speaker 1: sharing their revenue stream from their premium endorser with their
Speaker 1: student athletes. And also they can't say it out loud,
Speaker 1: but they're still coaches that don't even want the players
Speaker 1: to get that. M hmm. It's still coaches in college football, basketball,
Speaker 1: all of these sports that still don't want the players
Speaker 1: to profit off of their name, image and likeness. And
Speaker 1: that's crazy. I think. I think it's absolutely ridiculous. And
Speaker 1: like you talk to those coaches, you know, they'll they'll
Speaker 1: they'll speak on the challenges that it presents. But a
Speaker 1: challenge that's presented if if you don't have that is
Speaker 1: how are these kids eat? How are these kids families?
Speaker 1: And all of those things? So I think, you know, no,
Speaker 1: no matter what, you can look at it from both sides.
Speaker 1: But in speaking of you know, these schools or the
Speaker 1: n c A in general, I think it's time that
Speaker 1: we get rid of this amateurism work. There's no longer amateurism.
Speaker 1: These guys are now they're making money off their name,
Speaker 1: image and likeness, which is great. Like you're you're you're
Speaker 1: getting some money. So and for for majority of these kids,
Speaker 1: and like you just talked about Anderson Hunt, like you
Speaker 1: just talked about Ray and Jim, for majority of these kids,
Speaker 1: they won't be in a position that will be in
Speaker 1: that will be the most money they will ever make
Speaker 1: from basketball. And now whether you go on and do
Speaker 1: something you know, down the road, that's a totally different thing.
Speaker 1: But from basketball, that will be the most money that
Speaker 1: they'll ever make. And for these schools and the n
Speaker 1: c A, not like I felt like the n I
Speaker 1: L for the n c A was just a cop
Speaker 1: out for everybody to shut up and say just for
Speaker 1: everyone to stop saying, let's pay these athletes. And guess what,
Speaker 1: I am guilty of this too, because I was very
Speaker 1: outspoken about athletes getting paid, and sure enough they did
Speaker 1: n I M And I shut up too. M. I
Speaker 1: shut up too. I remember being on TV the data
Speaker 1: ruling got paid and I literally stood on the table
Speaker 1: like I Am not about to bust my arm patting
Speaker 1: myself on the back for being a champion of the
Speaker 1: n I L happening because of my voice, because all
Speaker 1: that is a band aid. Yeah, all that's all that is.
Speaker 1: The true money is if I can make money off
Speaker 1: my name, image and likeness, or I can make money
Speaker 1: with the school that's the school got the money. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. You you you I can't. I
Speaker 1: can't use their logo at all at all, but the logo.
Speaker 1: But but the block m is very synonymous with Jaylen
Speaker 1: Rose five correct, no question is synonymous. Yeah you if
Speaker 1: you took the block right now, it's so five five years,
Speaker 1: it's sell out like that, Yes, absolutely, or they'll sue
Speaker 1: me so fast I wouldn't get a chance to do it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And that's what the athletes are kind of realizing, which
Speaker 1: is why people aren't lining up to necessarily go playing
Speaker 1: college no more. They're going to the G League, They're
Speaker 1: going overseas. It's players just like I'd rather just work
Speaker 1: out for a year into the draft versus going to
Speaker 1: college and being part of that system. That's that's what
Speaker 1: this has become. Absolutely, Yeah, I know you gotta get
Speaker 1: out of here. We haven't spoke NBA at all. Um,
Speaker 1: just a couple of NBA questions, Um, number one, who
Speaker 1: is your m v P this year? Who will walk
Speaker 1: with the m v P? And number two, who do
Speaker 1: you think the finals come down to when it's all
Speaker 1: set and done this year? So a couple of things.
Speaker 1: And I'm really fortunate to be an actual voter and
Speaker 1: I vote for all of the NBA awards. I just
Speaker 1: recently did an All Star ballot and as somebody who's
Speaker 1: biological father played in the league. And you know, being
Speaker 1: from Michigan, we played whatever sport it is that season,
Speaker 1: we played football, baseball, basketball, ran across country, whatever. Like
Speaker 1: I take it serious, like I'm literally trying to make
Speaker 1: sure that I'm a student of the game and I'm
Speaker 1: rewarding people that deserve it. And as I look at
Speaker 1: this year, there's some amazing candidates, but you can't ignore
Speaker 1: what the jokers doing, Like like, and I know Bill
Speaker 1: Russell and Larry Bird are the only people to win
Speaker 1: the m v P three times in a row. And
Speaker 1: so what ends up happening is it becomes an award
Speaker 1: about storyline. It becomes an award about perception of doing
Speaker 1: the most with the least and or having a historic
Speaker 1: year to go with your numbers. And so after he's
Speaker 1: won it twice, it's like, all right, we should be
Speaker 1: trying to give it to somebody else. In theory, that's
Speaker 1: what the the the lazy prevailing thinking becomes. And so
Speaker 1: I love what lucas doing. He putting up historic numbers,
Speaker 1: flirting with leading the league and scoring giving supersize triple doubles, um,
Speaker 1: But I just don't know if his team's record is
Speaker 1: gonna be, you know, top four in the West. I
Speaker 1: love with Jahs doing. He's spectacular. You know how explosive
Speaker 1: he is, and he'll eventually win it one day. Um,
Speaker 1: you gotta always talk about Steph in the conversation. I
Speaker 1: know he's dealt with some injuries and y'all didn't get
Speaker 1: off to the start that you wanted to get off too,
Speaker 1: But he's still out here, Flames. Lebron is out here
Speaker 1: killing this year, like like Lebron is the first time
Speaker 1: I've ever watched Lebron be down by twenty and he
Speaker 1: mesmerized was the other night against the Clippers, Like I
Speaker 1: was watching that game, like, yo, he is really killing
Speaker 1: threes off the catch off the trible Duncan spinning like
Speaker 1: he gotta be in the conversation, and then Jayson Tatum
Speaker 1: how he's elevated and the Celtics are a number one seed.
Speaker 1: Janice is gonna make sure that the Bucks are flirting
Speaker 1: with a top tier seed in the East and then
Speaker 1: then be eat also, So like there's all of these
Speaker 1: great candidates, So now what's gonna separate them? Team record?
Speaker 1: Right now, Denver's number one in the West historic stats,
Speaker 1: This dude about the average a triple double, not just
Speaker 1: ma bloin. And so right now, if I had to
Speaker 1: select a betting choice, it has to be the joker.
Speaker 1: He getting twenty five, twelve and ten assists on the
Speaker 1: nightly basis, shooting six and like thirties some from three like,
Speaker 1: and they got the number one seed. It's a lot
Speaker 1: of ball to be played. But right now we'll have
Speaker 1: to say him as it relates to the finals, I
Speaker 1: still feel like, y'all gotta run in, y'all. You know,
Speaker 1: I just saw coming to float to the left the
Speaker 1: other night, like Honnie Hawkins. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, young fella, that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: That's what they need. Um. And the beautiful thing about
Speaker 1: the West races in the East, I feel like Boston.
Speaker 1: Let me just say that Boston is the best team
Speaker 1: in the East. There, the deepest team in the East.
Speaker 1: They got two wing scores that could get you twenty
Speaker 1: five or thirty. They got great guard, played multiple guards
Speaker 1: with White and brogg Den and Marcus Smart like, they
Speaker 1: got multiple bigs, and Robert Williams and Horford like they
Speaker 1: just they just loaded. So I'll say Boston if healthy
Speaker 1: should win. Here's why the West is intriguing. The people
Speaker 1: that's been there and done that. Our lower in the
Speaker 1: standings today as we speak, the Warriors, as you know, Lebron,
Speaker 1: the Clippers, the Sons like these are all people that
Speaker 1: have done it recently. So now it's new Jack's at
Speaker 1: the top. Denver, Memphis, Sacramento. In the West, Sacramento, shout Brown,
Speaker 1: no doubt he ball and he got him, he got
Speaker 1: the ball and doing this thing. So but here's the thing.
Speaker 1: When the Kings play against one of the teams I
Speaker 1: just mentioned in the first round, like the Warriors or
Speaker 1: the Lakers, they ain't gonna be favorite. Yeah they're not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they ain't gonna be favorite. And so that's gonna catapult
Speaker 1: you veteran latent team teams into position to do it.
Speaker 1: So I'm just excited about the West. I'm excited about
Speaker 1: um covering the West because we have the West this year,
Speaker 1: and I ain't ruling out being in the Golden State
Speaker 1: for at least the conference finals. That part. I respect that. Actually,
Speaker 1: this is the last question we're gonna get out. Here's
Speaker 1: a very personal question. Um, Jimmy Walker, mm hmm. Number
Speaker 1: one pick. Yea, your biological father. You never met him,
Speaker 1: the number one pick in nineteen sixty seven. What impact
Speaker 1: did that have on you growing up as a kid,
Speaker 1: growing up as a kid that played basketball to know
Speaker 1: my father. It's the number one pick, but I never
Speaker 1: had the chance to know him. Yet I'm essentially walking
Speaker 1: in these footsteps like it's just in me, Like what impact?
Speaker 1: Because that's like having doad issues is one thing. Not
Speaker 1: meeting your father this is a totally different thing. We
Speaker 1: know the traumas that come with that. But to actually
Speaker 1: walk in that light and say, no, I'm a basketball player,
Speaker 1: I'm from Detroit. Basketball is a big thing. I'm chasing
Speaker 1: the stream. Or by the way, my father was a
Speaker 1: number one pick and I don't even have a chance
Speaker 1: to talk to him, meet him. What impacted to have him?
Speaker 1: A lot of pain, a lot of hurt, a lot
Speaker 1: of anger, a lot of disappointment because a lot of
Speaker 1: times you start to think he don't want to meet me.
Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying. And then it's when I'm
Speaker 1: at St. Cecilia and people are referencing him and showing
Speaker 1: him love. But I'm standing next to my mother who
Speaker 1: just brought me there and we're poor and they're talking
Speaker 1: about him. I resented that, you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And it became where I never talked about him. What
Speaker 1: I was very young, I used to carry his basketball
Speaker 1: card and I should take it to the park and
Speaker 1: be like, ooh, this is my dad or whatever. And
Speaker 1: then as I started to get like in middle school,
Speaker 1: and you know, kids say mean things, and so having
Speaker 1: his name, the first thing a kid to do when
Speaker 1: they try to joke on me was act like JJ
Speaker 1: from Good Times was my father. Wow, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. To try to disrespect me, you see what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like you don't know your father? That the
Speaker 1: he Jimmy Barker, No, No, JJ from good So that
Speaker 1: used to that used to be fist fight right off
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. And as I started to get older,
Speaker 1: I was like he was my inspiration to following his footsteps,
Speaker 1: but he was also my motivation and he was gonna
Speaker 1: learn my name one day. And when I got to
Speaker 1: high school and he wore twenty four when he played
Speaker 1: with the Pistons, I purposely picked number four the too,
Speaker 1: because I'm like, I'm gonna be the opposite of how
Speaker 1: he was with me. Wow, And so that was my
Speaker 1: number in high school out of spite, literally, and so
Speaker 1: once I got to college, and I'm not mad at
Speaker 1: Mitch album now, but as I look back at it,
Speaker 1: I'm disappointed. And he literally gave me a letter as
Speaker 1: he was writing a five five book the night before
Speaker 1: we played the national championship game, and I had never
Speaker 1: met my father. He gave me this letter because he
Speaker 1: had just talked to him for his book, and so
Speaker 1: I remember just sitting there staring at this letter. Ain't
Speaker 1: no excuse by the way we got waxed, and you know,
Speaker 1: I ain't got no problems talking about bad games or whatever.
Speaker 1: But I just remember like thinking about this years later
Speaker 1: and understanding that this has such a profound impact on me.
Speaker 1: I kept that letter for like seven years with me
Speaker 1: and never even opened it, like Linus in the Blanket
Speaker 1: on Charlie Brown, Like, I just kept it with me,
Speaker 1: just always in my bag, always with me, always with me.
Speaker 1: And after we made the finals, when I was in
Speaker 1: the league and after I got paid and I was
Speaker 1: almost improved, I was like, now I'm ready, And I
Speaker 1: remember being at Dale David's crib. They was in the
Speaker 1: front playing poker, and I went in the back in
Speaker 1: his bathroom and I opened the letter and I read
Speaker 1: it and it was a number on there, and I
Speaker 1: called him. I'm like, I'm about to call him right now.
Speaker 1: And the first number he wasn't there. They gave me
Speaker 1: a second number. Second number wasn't there. I ended up
Speaker 1: talking to like his sister, and she was giving me
Speaker 1: some game about him, some good games, some bad game,
Speaker 1: good game. He's a great man. He would love to
Speaker 1: meet you. It's all, you know, he whatever. Then there
Speaker 1: was some dubious things like he had thirteen kids by
Speaker 1: Levin women and died out of that. So it's all
Speaker 1: types of like just and so I finally got him
Speaker 1: on the phone first day. I told him, as I
Speaker 1: loved him, I thank them for the jenes, I thank
Speaker 1: them for the inspiration. And I told him I ain't
Speaker 1: got no hard feelings. I made it and however the
Speaker 1: journey took us, this is how God meant it to be.
Speaker 1: And so I want to meet you. I want to
Speaker 1: celebrate you. I want us to be able to start
Speaker 1: a relationship. And the crazy thing about this day they
Speaker 1: a couple of years go by, I'm playing in the
Speaker 1: league I'm working in the media. I'm talking to him
Speaker 1: on the phone and like twenties to two thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm coming to see you this summer.
Speaker 1: He died before the playoffs ended and I got a
Speaker 1: chance to see him. I believe he died like I
Speaker 1: was working on the finals, as you know, and I
Speaker 1: was gonna go see him like in July, and I
Speaker 1: believe he died before I got a chance to actually
Speaker 1: go see him. But I did go to his funeral
Speaker 1: with Dave being And for all you youngsters out there
Speaker 1: is having a lot of babies and choosing not to
Speaker 1: be in their lives, let me tell you something. His
Speaker 1: funeral was the coldest thing you ever want to see.
Speaker 1: It was like, I'm not making this up. It was
Speaker 1: like in a cafeteria and it was like thirty people there.
Speaker 1: It was so chilling. I was like, yo, WHOA. I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm just dropped to my knees and and
Speaker 1: just like ask for forgiveness to any of my sinness,
Speaker 1: because whatever this is, I don't want this, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like you can have an infant have
Speaker 1: a funeral and it could be hundreds of people there.
Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying. And so that experience did
Speaker 1: teach me a lot. But being a part of the
Speaker 1: NBA family and Kareem map do a Jabar coming up
Speaker 1: to me talking to me about, Hey, I went to
Speaker 1: your grandmother's house. She cooked real good, like to hang
Speaker 1: out with your dad or whatever. And Clyde Fraser telling
Speaker 1: me stories and Jerry West telling me stories and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. I appreciated how they still treated me those
Speaker 1: O g s like I was in the family then,
Speaker 1: even though I wasn't mm hmm because I was. That's deep, man,
Speaker 1: That's that's deep. Wow. You know I have I've had
Speaker 1: my little fair share of issues. And when you're going
Speaker 1: through it, no nobody talks anymore. And so until you
Speaker 1: start talking to someone, you realize, yo, it's so many
Speaker 1: more people going through the same thing. But when you're
Speaker 1: going through it by yourself and feel like you're the
Speaker 1: only person got that issue correct. And I applaud you
Speaker 1: for you for your approach to have to be mad
Speaker 1: enough to call him and say, man, I am mad
Speaker 1: at you, I love you like and I appreciate you.
Speaker 1: That's so powerful. What I will say that of people
Speaker 1: out there is if you're having those issues, talk to somebody.
Speaker 1: You'd be very shocked on the guy that you talked
Speaker 1: to next year got the same issues. But also, here's
Speaker 1: the other thing I want to say. You don't realize
Speaker 1: how much anxiety and pain and hurt that you have
Speaker 1: from that. So if you can fix it, do it.
Speaker 1: That's the other thing. Like there's certain relationships that for
Speaker 1: whatever reason that just you can't repair. But if you
Speaker 1: can fix it, do it. Mm hmm. J Rose, I
Speaker 1: appreciate you, my brother. Thank you for coming on the
Speaker 1: show always. I love you, my brother, Wanta call away.
Speaker 1: I see you in the playoffs. Yes, sir, I love
Speaker 1: you too, Bro. Thank you, Yes, sir,