1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Before we get started. This episode contains talk of sexual 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: abuse and sexual assault. Please take care while listening. 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: She's one of the most high profile politicians in the 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 2: United States. 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: But it's April twenty twenty four and we're just setting 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: out on our investigation into the man behind mister deep Fakes, 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: the largest deep fake porn site. When it happens again. 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 2: But even Alexandria Ocasio Cortez has now become the target 9 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: of an alarming and a graphic online phenomenon. In a 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 2: new interview with Rolling Stone, the Democratic congresswoman is sharing 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: the nightmare of discovering AI generated pornographic images of herself 12 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: on x. 13 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: It's been just a few months since Taylor Swift's deep 14 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: fake went viral. Aoc isn't the only public facing woman 15 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: to be newly victimized, but she is a powerful one. 16 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: So CNN asks me to go on one of their 17 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: nightly news shows to talk about the growing threat. Now, 18 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: what's a bit crazy about this moment is I'm not 19 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: in New York right now. I'm actually in the field 20 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: in another country, chasing a huge lead. But more on 21 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: that later. Okay, that's kind of freezing, very fitting into 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: the day I'm currently in a satellite office. It's small, dark, quiet, 23 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: and I have a second before I'll be patched in 24 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: with the scene in news anchor Abby Phillips. So my 25 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: producers and I chat about this weird kind of meta moment, like. 26 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 3: We're literally here trying to track down the guy behind 27 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 3: who's perpetuating this type of digitally afuse. He's like ground 28 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,559 Speaker 3: zero for this type of thing. And then this flows 29 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 3: up with AOC and it's going to start happening like 30 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 3: at a rate that we can even keep up with. 31 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: This is the rate of technology. Now, I'm experiencing this 32 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: internal struggle how much do I share about what I 33 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: actually know about deep fakes, the depth of abuse, how 34 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: widespread it actually is. What happened to AOC like Taylor 35 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: Swift is that she found one deep fake image of 36 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: her going viral on X But what I know is, 37 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: unfortunately there is so much more of that. 38 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 3: If she were to go to mister deep fakes right now, 39 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 3: which Lord knows, I will not say this on television, 40 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: Like there are pages of sexually explicit deep fake pornography 41 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 3: videos and she doesn't even know, like that millions of 42 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 3: people are seeing. 43 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 4: But you're in an awkward position because you're talking. 44 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 5: About to dinner. 45 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: So what you mentioned, it's like how to make a 46 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: pipe on right, Like, how much do you want to say, Hey, 47 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: this website and this is where the content is. 48 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, we're doing it. 49 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: This is the problem when talking about deep fake pornography. 50 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: By sharing the names of celebrities who are deep faked, 51 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: or talking specifically about the technology, you can accidentally encourage 52 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: people to go seek out those images or make their own. 53 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,559 Speaker 1: It's a fine line to walk, especially live on television. 54 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: So we decided to reference the problem without naming mister 55 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: deep fakes. 56 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 2: Laurie. I'm good to see you on this horrible topic, 57 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: this deep fake porn phenomenon. It's becoming more popular online, 58 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: but it's also easier to make than ever before. Some 59 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 2: sites are even offering tutorials on how to create this pornography. 60 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: You're actively investigating some of these sites behind this technology. 61 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 2: What can you tell us about them? 62 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm currently out here on an investigation into the 63 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: anonymous person behind one of the largest deep fake pornography sites. 64 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: And what I'll say is, I mean, it's not just 65 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 1: about X and having an image come out on X. 66 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: There are these sites that are operating in plain sight, 67 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: where millions, not one, hundreds, not thousands, and millions of 68 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: people are going every month to these sites to learn 69 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: how to do this type of thing, and then what's 70 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: happening is trickling out into the real world. 71 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 3: We're seeing this in high schools. 72 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: You now have apps just as easy as it is 73 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: to order an uber or order groceries. Now there are 74 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: apps that encourage young men to digitally undress their classmates 75 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: with generative AI. And I think we're just scratching the 76 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: surface on this. It's a huge problem. 77 00:03:59,440 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 6: As a parent. 78 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 2: I know actually a lot of parents who don't even 79 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 2: put their kids' faces on social media. It almost makes 80 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: you think that that might not be the wrong decision. 81 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost hard because parents don't even know that 82 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: we need to have these conversations. But these conversations need 83 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: to happen because not only are we creating a new 84 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: generation of victims, but this type of technology, when misused, 85 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: is creating a new generation of abusers. Mister deep Figs 86 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 1: had thrived for more than six years in the Shadows. 87 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: He'd created this community that deep faked these famous women 88 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: without detection from the mainstream, but this French behavior. It 89 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: was moving toward the center. For so long, it felt 90 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: like I was shouting into the ether. My team and 91 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: I had been investigating this for a really long time 92 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: and it didn't seem like we could get people to 93 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: pay attention. But things were starting to change. The world 94 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: was waking up. We had lawmakers speaking out on this, 95 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: and more people were acknowledging that this was actual abuse. 96 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: That said mister deep Fakes was enormous. The community was thriving, 97 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: and we were worried that, if anything, it might mean 98 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: that he would try to protect himself and the community. 99 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: As people were paying more attention, so we knew we 100 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: had to find him and we had to move quick. 101 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Siegel, and this is Mostly Human, a tech 102 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: podcast through a human lens. You're listening to part two 103 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: of our four part series searching for Mister d Fakes. 104 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: I guess my question, which is the thing that has 105 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: been on my mind for the last nine or ten months, 106 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: Who is mister d Fakes? 107 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 4: I will show you a picture. 108 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: It's been six weeks since I sent a call out 109 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: on social media asking if anyone knew anything about the 110 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: man behind mister de Fakes. And I get a tip, 111 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: a message from a stranger sent to me over TikTok, 112 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: saying he thinks he's uncovered the identity of mister Dee fakes. 113 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: Of course, mister deep fakes. The person behind it is 114 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: someone I want to to unmask, someone I've been searching 115 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: for and some would say maybe obsessing over for the 116 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: last two years, and now a voice in the void 117 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: of social media has appeared. His profile seems to be 118 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: a company, not a name. He has barely any followers, 119 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: no human profile pick and I'm like, who is this guy? 120 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: But also could it be true? Or is it too 121 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: good to be true? After messaging back and forth with him, 122 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: we commit to a zoom call the next day, and 123 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: then so when they come in, just make sure the 124 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: view and then pin them Oh, I okay great, which 125 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: is exactly what we did. Not even a full day 126 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: after getting this tip, I'm staring at an empty zoom 127 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: box in a sunlit Brooklyn studio, surrounded by video producers 128 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: and cameras, anxiously awaiting the guy behind the tip. Let's roll, okay, 129 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: all right, right, let him in. 130 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 4: Hi, Why how are you doing? Good to see you? Yeah, 131 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 4: nice to see you. 132 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: As well, the tipster is Jordi, a thirty something year 133 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,799 Speaker 1: old man based in the Netherlands. He owns a content 134 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: protection and cybersecurity company called Sidente. Now I have so 135 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: much I want to ask him, but I start with 136 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: how did he find us? 137 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,119 Speaker 7: We were searching for the mister d Fakes on different 138 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 7: social media and we were wondering if there is already 139 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 7: somebody working on the case for mister de Fikes, because 140 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 7: it's a really big website with a lot of different visitors. 141 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 7: So we were looking just for somebody who's on the 142 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 7: case already, and we found you on TikTok. 143 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: I quickly learned the backstory of Jordie's interest in mister 144 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: deep Fakes. Their company started to protect the identities of 145 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: only fan creators, influencers and celebrities who were seeing their 146 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: likeness used for someone else's profit. Soon enough, that identity 147 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: theft crossed over into graphic deep fake videos, many of 148 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: those on mister deep Fakes. 149 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 7: Two years ago, we got the first email for the 150 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 7: deep fakes and right now we obviously have like every 151 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 7: single month five six emails coming in for defake video removal. 152 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 7: So and then it came on the news in the 153 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 7: Netherlands and we thought, okay, maybe we can investigate this further. 154 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: It was a Dutch journalist who turned Jordie's attention towards 155 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: this mystery. The journalists had been looking into mister deep 156 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: Fakes after Dutch politicians and prominent public figures appeared on 157 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: the site. He also wanted to know who's behind mister 158 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: deep Fakes. Did Jordie know or could he and his 159 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: team find out? 160 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 7: And then he came here. We are very interested in 161 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 7: knowing who this person is. Who is this person? I 162 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 7: was his daily life looking and yeah, do you have 163 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 7: any information for us? I said, now, unfortunately not, We 164 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 7: do not know who this person is. We can try 165 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 7: to research and maybe find him out and do some 166 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 7: investigation by our team. And there's where it all started 167 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 7: for us. 168 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: Why did you care about finding mister de fakes? 169 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 7: What he is doing is absolutely one We believe using 170 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 7: somebody's image, using somebody face should always and always be 171 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 7: only with the permission of the person, and if there's 172 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 7: no permission of the person, it should be punished. 173 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: How did you find it? 174 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 4: I guess a lot of luck. 175 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,239 Speaker 7: We have found some patterns, we have found some information, 176 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 7: and we connected the software that misterdefects dot com used 177 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 7: and eventually we found a name. 178 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: So can you give us some of the clues that 179 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: enabled you to track them down? 180 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 7: Absolutely, so, i will start at the beginning and show 181 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 7: you the graft that we have created. 182 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: Jordy shares his screen, and now we're looking at this 183 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: intricate web of connections that should lead us from mister 184 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 1: deep fakes dot com to a real person. 185 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 7: As you can see here, we will start right at 186 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 7: the eighth chen dot net posts. 187 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: Jordy's team started by investigating an eight Chan post from 188 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: when the site first launched as dpfks dot com in 189 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: February twenty eighteen, and it's here that Jordie discovers a 190 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: message that mentions a new deep fake website. Now we're 191 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: going to use AI voices to bring these messages to life. 192 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 8: I'm beta testing my tube site dedicated to deep fakes. 193 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 8: Please check it out and give us feedback. 194 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: This message traces back to a generic email. 195 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 7: We found this email being connected to thedfix dot com 196 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 7: Gmail accounts, and we started looking for some possibility of connections. 197 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: They follow the genericdfix email across the internet down some 198 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: wild paths including a shady offshore corporation site, but it 199 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: doesn't yet connect them to a real person. 200 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 7: So there our investigations stopped. 201 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: So they turn their attention to misterdefakes dot com itself 202 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: and they look more closely at the software and the 203 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: tools the site was using over the year, searching for 204 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: changes that maybe they could trace, and it was here 205 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: that they had their next big break. 206 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 4: So we found out his username. 207 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: They find a username of interest azn Rico or Asian Rico. 208 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: It just kept popping up downloading site features during relevant 209 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: time periods. They tracked it from across the Internet and 210 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: they found it used on porn sites, a student pharmacist forum, 211 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 1: and a car enthusiast page, and then on another site, Jackpot. 212 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 7: This is where he made a big mistake. May click 213 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 7: on his profile and just go to the information is 214 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 7: personal emails connected. 215 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 4: Here is theehotmail dot com. 216 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: Email, a real world email address attached to the username. 217 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: Jordie's team runs his email through a database and finds 218 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: that it's connected to a lot of things. A Twitter profile, 219 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: a Yelp page, a Nike run club profile, and another username. 220 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: So then they searched that username and they find something 221 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: noteworthy a bunch of posts on a site called black 222 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: hat world Forum, right when mister deep fakes launched. In 223 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: a thread where others were talking about deep fake porn, 224 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: the new username adds this post. 225 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 8: Anyone working on projects involving this deep fake Niche I 226 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 8: have a streaming platform and form up and running and 227 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 8: want to grow it with someone. 228 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: Jordy goes on to show us how all these little 229 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: digital breadcrumbs cross confirm one another. All this evidence, it 230 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: paints a compelling picture that this is the person who 231 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: created and built the site. It would be difficult for 232 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: him to explain it any other way, I guess, Jordy, 233 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: My question is, like, looking at all of this evidence, 234 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: was there a smoking gun. 235 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 4: For us? 236 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 7: Glue was that he said I was your original owner 237 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 7: of the domain, which I saw to the domain. 238 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: The Dutch journalist Jeordi had been working with reached out 239 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,599 Speaker 1: to the personal email address and he got a sponds. 240 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: The man they tracked down admitted that he had purchased 241 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: the domain, but claimed he sold it shortly afterward. But 242 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: this didn't match the evidence. 243 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 7: Sometimes you see changing in the name servers, changing the 244 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 7: email address to a different Gmail address, but everything states 245 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 7: with the same email address, state name servers. So I 246 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 7: think with this email, he basically exposed himself. 247 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 1: This person's digital associations with the site not only spent years, 248 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: there were also no signs that ever changed hands, and 249 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: when the journal is pressed for proof, the suspected owner 250 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't give any How certain are you that it's him? 251 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 4: We are very sure. You're very sure this is the 252 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 4: right person. They're positive, very positive, fairy. 253 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 7: And also that he deleted all the social media actually 254 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 7: just one message if he may be misterdefis dot com 255 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 7: and saying that we find the information that he maybe 256 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 7: can miss defixs dot come either leaded everything. 257 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 4: Why would you even do that? 258 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: I guess my question, which is the thing that has 259 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: been on my mind for the last nine or ten months. 260 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: Who is mister d fix. 261 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 7: I will show you a picture. And you also said 262 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 7: about like a person who is one of the most 263 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 7: dangerous people on the Internet, And I will show you 264 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 7: right now who this person is. 265 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 4: Here is mister deep fake. 266 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 6: This is. 267 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: Jordi enlarge. Is a photo on his screen. It's a 268 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: selfie something you posts on Instagram, and it's of a 269 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: youngish guy somewhere in his thirties and he's got this 270 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: huge smile on his face, and there's a woman with him, 271 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: her arms around his shoulders, he i tucked into the 272 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: crook of his neck. They're posing somewhere scenic in front 273 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: of a body of water, and honestly, this is not 274 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: what I was expecting. It is so strange, if I 275 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: can just be honest, like, I've looked at the site 276 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: too many times to try to understand why someone to 277 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: create a platform that democratizes these tools that just annihilate women. 278 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: And just look at this photo. It's like, I don't know, 279 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: you walk by that, that guy in the street and 280 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: you don't think that's mister d fikes. Yes, absolutely, tell 281 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: me a little bit about the person you found. 282 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 7: So the person that we found here, can I call 283 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 7: his name? Can I say his name? 284 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, you can say his name, goat. 285 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 7: So his name is David, And David is very active 286 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 7: in photography. He likes photography, makes a lot of different photos. 287 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 7: He also had an active Instagram account where he created 288 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 7: like professional pictures of people he likes to. 289 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 4: Go on holidays. 290 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 7: He went to a lot of different countries in two years, 291 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 7: two three years, I believe, And it's. 292 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 4: Just a really really normal guy. How old is he? 293 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 7: Two thirty five at the moment, and this picture is 294 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 7: from twenty eighteen if I'm correct. 295 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: And where did you get this picture? 296 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 4: From his Instagram? 297 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 7: And then we found his girlfriend's instagram and there was 298 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 7: this photo published. He was also a big fan of cars, 299 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 7: and he published pictures of his car. He liked the 300 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 7: I'm saying it's correct, it's in a Mitchy busy car. 301 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 7: And well, you're investigating his address. He found something very interesting. 302 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 7: If I go to Google Maps and the same car 303 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 7: is exactly standing in his fop for the girl so Frost, 304 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 7: Oh wow, the exact same car. 305 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: Oh wow? Is that his house? 306 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,119 Speaker 4: This is his house? Wow? 307 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: A house an address in Canada, And so you know 308 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: based on off of this information that he lives in Canada. 309 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, Tonto, Canada, Toronto. 310 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: I just have to say, I feel like you've got 311 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: an interesting day job, but that this does not suck 312 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: an easy search, Like even though it might seem like, 313 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: oh we went here, that brought us here here here, 314 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: this is like pretty complicated searching. 315 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 7: Yeah, but eventually everything will find out win in forty 316 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 7: eight hours. So we were still favorite first with this 317 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 7: we did it. 318 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: In forty eight hours. You tracked down mister deep fais. 319 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 4: Yes. 320 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: Wow. Jordie agreed to send me his entire dossier with 321 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: all of these details and all of the evidence mapped out. 322 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: His research was very compelling, but we needed to vet 323 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: it thoroughly, and I planned to send it to our 324 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: own cybersecurity guy, David Kennedy, who could go a step 325 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: further before we parted ways. Jordi shared the Canadian address 326 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: he found, and he shared a phone number, and I 327 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: instantly knew two things. One we're going to Canada and 328 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: the other we're about to call mister deep fakes. 329 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 8: I'm not able to take your call right now. 330 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 6: From sleep the. 331 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: Message, Hi David, my name is Lorie Siegel. I'm a 332 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: longtime reporter covering technology. So I leave a message for 333 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: mister deep Fakes, and I text and I call again. 334 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 9: AM unable to take your call right now? 335 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 10: Tha message Okay, so we're hearing his voice this time, 336 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 10: it was clear, well he's not going to call back, 337 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 10: so I'm going to text him, call him, probably email 338 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 10: and leave a voice mama. 339 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: But then my phone rings, Oh shit, no caller ID Hello, Hello. 340 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:06,719 Speaker 4: David, David. 341 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 5: I think I'm the rule. I'm the rule, and Taylor 342 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 5: Swift is the exception. 343 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 6: It can happen to literally anybody, and also literally anybody 344 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 6: can do it all right now, that's to me, that's 345 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 6: the hardest part to swallow. 346 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: This is Molly and Steve. They're married and they live 347 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: in Minnesota, and they have a close knit group of friends, 348 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: friends they know through the restaurant and bar industry where 349 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: they've worked. In twenty twenty four, when Molly was pregnant 350 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 1: with her second child, something happened that shook them to 351 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: their core. 352 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 6: It shattered our friend group. The collateral damages I can't 353 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,160 Speaker 6: calculate it. It's insane. 354 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 5: Ben Is was my husband's best friend for the past 355 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 5: twenty years. My husband was best man in both of 356 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 5: his weddings. He was an art wedding. We've traveled the 357 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 5: world with him. His wife she had an inkling. 358 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 4: That something was up. 359 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 5: She went and looked on his computer, fully expecting to 360 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 5: find pornography, but also like thinking infidelity probably, And what 361 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 5: she found was a AI face swapping website, and she 362 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 5: saw a ton of pornography of me and basically all 363 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 5: of our closest friends, like the. 364 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 11: Wives of his entire wedding party, all of us. 365 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: When we started our search for the guy behind the 366 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: world's largest defake porn site, we worried that the abuse 367 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: would trickle down from the site and the celebrities it targeted, 368 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: and straight into our communities, our high schools, and our neighborhoods. 369 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what was happening. The deep fake abuse 370 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: was already spreading far beyond one site or one time 371 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: of technology. It was getting closer and closer to Hull. 372 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 5: She panicked and got really scared, and so she took 373 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 5: screenshots with her phone of his monitor. I was six 374 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 5: months pregnant, by the way, and I took it a 375 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 5: couple of days for me to wrap my head around it, 376 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 5: and then I decided I wanted to see the images. 377 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 11: So she showed them to me. 378 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 5: And one of his family members was there, his sister 379 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 5: in law, co workers of his, a dead woman, a 380 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 5: friend of ours who passed in twenty three of an 381 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 5: accidental overdose. I knew like thirty forty women that were there. 382 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 5: I mean we worked together in the service industry. I 383 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 5: don't know if you've ever bartended her way to tables, 384 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 5: but like it's a small. 385 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 11: It's a pretty close knit group. 386 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: Ben had basically created this AI driven fantasy world of 387 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: his friends and his friend's wives eighty five women in total. 388 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: He used a popular AI utification app, prominently advertised on 389 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: Mister Deep Fakes and elsewhere. 390 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 6: My wife was pregnant at the time, and he was 391 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 6: asking me how Molly was doing, like how was the 392 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 6: pregnancy going, Like as well, let you guys know, if 393 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 6: you need anything, I'm there. And meanwhile, at the same time, 394 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 6: like within like six feet of me, probably was his 395 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 6: laptop with all these nude images of my wife and 396 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 6: all of our friends and or their wives or girlfriends 397 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 6: on there. 398 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 4: It was. 399 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 6: It was completely duplicitous, and. 400 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 4: It really shook me. Still. 401 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 5: That's the scary part is we've lost our sense on 402 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 5: reality as a society to where it felt like nothing 403 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 5: to him, but it wrecked me. Now I'm going to 404 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 5: spend the next twenty five years of my life reacting 405 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 5: to this. That's what it is, you know it I mean, 406 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 5: And so for eighty five women, and it probably took 407 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 5: him less than twenty minutes to do this. 408 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: Mollie also wants some recourse. She happens to be going 409 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: to law school at the time, so she has an 410 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: understanding of how to tackle the issue. She goes to 411 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: law enforcement to see what can be done. 412 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 11: What I learned is that law enforcement is. 413 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 5: Wildly ill equipped and unprepared and unwilling to do anything. 414 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 5: And and it's more. But it's not really their fault. 415 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 5: It's not their fault because they can only do what 416 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 5: the law allows them to do. And the law requires dissemination. 417 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:52,479 Speaker 5: It requires intentional dissemination, and the presumption of harm falls 418 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 5: on the finding of that, and the finding of the 419 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 5: intent and the dissemination falls on me. 420 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: To file a criminal complaint against Ben, Mollie has to 421 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: prove Ben not only created these defake images, but that 422 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: he shared them or posted them somewhere. So to protect yourself, 423 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: Molly has to search for her own deep fake abuse. 424 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 12: So now I am scouring the creepiest, weirdest corners of 425 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 12: the Internet, like trying to find my own pornography, like 426 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 12: I'm searching for my own victimization. 427 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 5: At the end of the day, what it comes down 428 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 5: to is I've spent my whole life keeping track of 429 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:39,479 Speaker 5: what my body does it doesn't do. So to know 430 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 5: that now against my will and consent, you make this 431 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 5: Frankenstein version of me that is currently existing in like 432 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 5: a shadow world, Like there's another version of me out 433 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 5: there doing porn, you know. 434 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 11: And will forever. 435 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,239 Speaker 5: It's the sort of Damocleas is over your head for 436 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 5: the rest of my life. 437 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: This abuse has had a huge impact on Molly's life. 438 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: It severed lifelong friendships, altered the community she was a 439 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: part of, and shattered the safety she felt. 440 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 5: Very boring, mundane things are very anxiety inducing now, like 441 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 5: being on a bus and going to commuting to work, 442 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 5: or sitting in a meeting or talking to a client. 443 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 5: You start to get in your head and it's like 444 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 5: they're looking at me too long. Maybe they've seen it, 445 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 5: and you just start to wonder, where is it. It's 446 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 5: like a spider you can't find, you know. I just 447 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 5: hate that this is where we're headed as a society. 448 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 5: I'm scared for my sons that they will someday come 449 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 5: to an age where. 450 00:25:53,480 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 11: This could be so flippant and it's sad. It's really sad. 451 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 11: It's losing your grip on reality. 452 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 5: So it's like. 453 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: We're officially in Toronto. I can't believe we're here. 454 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 4: I mean, how does it feel to like take it from. 455 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: Like this has all been like online. Yeah, I think 456 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: this for like months, and now it's like. 457 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 13: To be in this reel. 458 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I've been. I feel like I've been 459 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: in this guy's head and being so just like frustrated 460 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: by it and being like we've got this part. This 461 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 1: thing should not exist. 462 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 6: Why does it exist? 463 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: To like, who's the person responsible for this? But it's 464 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: all been kind of like online, right and now we 465 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: are literally in Toronto, so that's crazy. A lot has 466 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: happened in the five days since I got that tip 467 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: about the real identity behind mister deep Fakes. The name 468 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: had been a starting point for us, Just like Jordie's 469 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: web of connections, we began building out our own web. 470 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: We've gathered possible addresses, built out contact lists, and identified 471 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: key spots of interest in the area. And this wasn't 472 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: the easiest because he tried to erase himself from the Internet. 473 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: In addition to sorting through all the remnants left behind online, 474 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: we got creative. We used an AI facial recognition tool 475 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: with the main photo that we did have, and we 476 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: had a bunch of hits him at a music festival 477 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, even his own wedding photo. All of 478 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: this helped us prepare for when we landed in Toronto 479 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 1: on a brisk April day. Our first step after landing 480 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: in Canada was to talk to our hacker friend, David Kennedy. 481 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: We had enlisted him and his team to pressure test 482 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: Jeordie's findings. They had sophisticated techniques to retrace the dossier 483 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: and fortify whether this was mister Dve fakes or not. 484 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 13: It very very much looks like mister d fakes. Pretty 485 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 13: pretty high confidence level there based on everything that was posted. 486 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 13: I think there was a total of like seventeen different 487 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 13: ways to kind of collaborate that a HM post based 488 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 13: off of it, it's pretty compelling that it is this individual. 489 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 13: I had our researchers over at Trusted Second Binder and 490 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 13: Defense go through it as well. You know, people that 491 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 13: are in this field that focus on you know, threat 492 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 13: intelligence and unmasking Nation states. It overlaid very well with 493 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 13: the research that they did and correpated a lot of that, 494 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 13: so you know, it's about as good as you're going 495 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 13: to get without the person actually admitting that he is 496 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 13: mister Dee Fakes. 497 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 4: Right. 498 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,239 Speaker 13: I think it's it's one of those things where you know, 499 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 13: it's it's very hard to stay anonymous online, especially when 500 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 13: you have one or two or three or four mistakes 501 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 13: that you can kind of trace back to an individual, 502 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 13: their persona and then eventually their identity, the eventually who 503 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 13: they are. You know, it's it's it's it's a very 504 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 13: high confidence that you have the David. 505 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: Do that you're looking for. David Doe. David Doe is 506 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: the name of the person gelready found and David Kennedy 507 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: confirmed to be the key figure behind mister deep Fakes 508 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: with a high level of certainty. And now we're driving 509 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: to the first address and the most concrete lead that 510 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: we have, which is about an hour outside of Toronto. 511 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 5: Ar Hi, how are you. 512 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 10: Hi? 513 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: Well, I have a minute. I finally connect with Sebastian, 514 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: who's the Dutch journalist that Jeordie had been working with. 515 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: Sebastian had been reporting on the deep fake porn abuse 516 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: happening in the Netherlands for his newspaper. 517 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 9: Well known Dutch celebrities and members of our parliaments apparents 518 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 9: owned mister deep Fakes. 519 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 4: It turned out Todd with more than an individuals. I 520 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 4: crossed the story out of this, and it cost a 521 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 4: huge uproar in the Netherlands. 522 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: Sebastian's newspaper decided not to run David Doe's name in print, 523 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: but Sebastian believed they had likely found the man behind 524 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: mister d Fakes. He, like Jordie, found it suspicious that 525 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: David shut off most of his social media accounts after 526 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: Sebastian emailed him asking if he owned mister deep Fakes. 527 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 9: I think if you were in since and the journalists 528 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 9: approached you. 529 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: You would want to clear it up. 530 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 10: You want to. 531 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 6: Clear it up. 532 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 4: So I think he's trying to cover up himself. Yeah, 533 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 4: and he is also removing his Yeah, he's removing evidence. 534 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: Before we got off the phone, Sebastian shared his own 535 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: motivation my. 536 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 9: And Michael to do to make this story because a 537 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 9: lots of women are ye feeling harassed. There was just 538 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 9: one prominent politician and she said to me, I feel 539 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 9: like I'm dig digitally raped, and that goes for a 540 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 9: lot of women. I think, yeah, there are too many victims. 541 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 9: I think if if, if, if you can reach him 542 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 9: and you you can yeah, discover what he's doing, then 543 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 9: you can really have a big, big story, yeah, with 544 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 9: lots of geppects. 545 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: When I got off the phone with Sebastian, we're pulling 546 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: off the highway. We enter a cozy looking suburb. Lawns 547 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: are well manicured. There are hockey nets and basketball oops, 548 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: signs of families, signs of community. Such a nice neighborhood. 549 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: It's like people walking their golden retrievers. I think I'm 550 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: also feeling just like this sadness, you know. It's like 551 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: this is such a lovely little neighborhood where I could 552 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: see like families, so family oriented, and like we're coming 553 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: here for such a dark thing. Okay, we are one 554 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: minute away. It's gonna be up there on the left. 555 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: We come up to the house. It's an idyllic suburban 556 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: home with flowers and bird houses and a Canadian flag 557 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: out front and parked in the driveway. Oh my god, 558 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: is that the red car. Oh my god, the red 559 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: Mitsubishi Jordy found photos of on David Doe's associated accounts. 560 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 561 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: We knew we had the right place, and now I 562 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: just have to go knock on the door. Okay, you guys, 563 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: I think someone's in the back. I think I just 564 00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: saw someone in the back okay, in the garden. Oh god, 565 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: I think that's his dad. This makes me sad. Okay, 566 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go and ask okay, all right, can you 567 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: unlock me? I am all right, okay, all right, Hi, okay, Hey, 568 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: how are you okay? I'm Laurie. Do you mind if 569 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: I just ask you a couple questions. There's an older 570 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: man standing in the driveway. He has white hair, and 571 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: he's dressed casually in a black long sleeved shirt, sweatpants 572 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: and sneakers. It's sunny outside but chili, and he's come 573 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: from his backyard. And knowing I'm not confronting David but 574 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: his dad, I decide to soften my approach. I'm a 575 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: longtime journalist. I'm looking for your son, David Poh for 576 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: a story I've been working on. It's about something on 577 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: the internet related. 578 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 3: Oh sorry, is he is? 579 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 4: It's no, no, no, no no. 580 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 10: I don't want to. 581 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: I try to introduce myself to share my credentials, but 582 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: there's also a language barrier. He also doesn't want to talk. 583 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: I understand, I understand, and don't understand me. Do you 584 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: mind if I just tell you? If I if I 585 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: say one thing to you, just at a respect I'm 586 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: trying to get some information about a website that your 587 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: son might be involved with, and I want to be 588 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: really respectful and talking to you, but I'm trying to 589 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: I'm trying to chat with him. Sorry, is this his car? 590 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 7: Hi? 591 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: How are you? I'm Laurie. At that moment, a woman 592 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: pokes her head outside the door. I'm assuming this is 593 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: David's mother. I try the same approach, but she doesn't 594 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: want to talk either. I try to pass on a 595 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: letter that explains the situation and has my contact infoy. 596 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: Could I give you this to in case you change 597 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: your mind. It's just a note that I wrote. No, no, 598 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: Would you let David know that we came and we're 599 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: looking for him at least to chat? 600 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 8: Oh? 601 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 5: No, no, because. 602 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 7: I don't know why you come here. 603 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: I've been trying to get in touch with him. And Okay, 604 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: thank you, have a nice day, you guys. Thank Back 605 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: in the car, Tony, our producer checks in after the encounter, 606 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: what are you feeling? M feel shitty, like all of 607 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: that feel shitty, like to kind of go and like 608 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: confront a family about this, and then I have to 609 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: like grapple with in my head. But doesn't it feel 610 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: shitty to like the thousands and thousands of women who 611 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: are being exposed on this site. It's like when you 612 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: think about searching for mister deep fakes, you think about 613 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: like going to like an underground place full of like 614 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: hackers with hoodies. You don't think about going to a 615 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: family oriented neighborhood and a house that has like bird cages, 616 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: you know, and gardening and you know, to parents who 617 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: are afraid. But then you got to take a step 618 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:21,320 Speaker 1: back and remember why I'm knocking on that door before 619 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 1: we move on. I decided to call David Doe using 620 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: the same number I used before. I imagine his parents 621 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: might be calling him now too, so I dial. 622 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 7: I'm unable to take all right now present. 623 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 10: After leaving a message, you can hang up or press 624 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:37,760 Speaker 10: pun for more often. 625 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,919 Speaker 1: Hey David, it's Laurie again. I'm hoping you'll be able 626 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: to give us a call. We just went by and 627 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: stopped by the address that we had on file for 628 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: you based off of some of the investigation, and I 629 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: believe it's your parents' home, and candidly like David, like 630 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to your parents. I really 631 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: want to talk to you, so give me a call back. 632 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: This was just the first stop. Over the next two days, 633 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: we follow a ton of leads we canvass the neighborhood. 634 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,720 Speaker 1: I'm looking for a David Doe. I know his parents 635 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: go to the other addresses we found. Hi, is this 636 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 1: David the wrong address? I was looking for a guy 637 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: named David David Doe. 638 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 5: I don't think they're home. 639 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: We had verified that David went to pharmacy school and 640 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: gathered context he might have known there. One we discovered 641 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: actually worked at a costco pharmacy nearby. I'm looking to 642 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: find a guy named David Doe. 643 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 4: Oh oh, I'll be here. You're the one that best 644 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 4: see me. 645 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: In the flesh, and we're just looking. I'm trying to 646 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: get in touch with him, and so I was wondering if, 647 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: like you had, you could tell me anything about like 648 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: where he lives, if you know about a website he 649 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 1: potentially owns. 650 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 3: Anything like that. 651 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 4: I don't know any particular details, but I can. I 652 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 4: can take your contact generation I see if I can out 653 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 4: to David. 654 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 1: At a local library, we find his high school yearbook there. 655 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: He is, Wow, he looks really young. He's wearing a 656 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: tie in a graduation robe, and next to him is 657 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 1: an earnest quote about making all these memories and friends 658 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,240 Speaker 1: that won't be forgotten. We took photos of the pages 659 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: and we jotted down the names of the people in 660 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,879 Speaker 1: his class to try contacting them later. It's our last 661 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: day in Canada and we've traveled miles across Ontario. We've 662 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: spoken to a lot of people and collected a bunch 663 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: of new clues that said still know David do At 664 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: this point, he's like a ghost. It's crazy because we 665 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: know his name, which I thought was going to be 666 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: the hardest thing once we knew his name, because he's 667 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: just like living out in the world very openly. But 668 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: we have not been able to get to him. He's 669 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: actually a lot harder to get to and we've given 670 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,399 Speaker 1: him every opportunity to speak with us, and so we've 671 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: got to figure out a way to get one step closer. 672 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: So I decided to make one more stop to return 673 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: to the place where we got closest to him. This 674 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: is not the door I want to be knocking on 675 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: his parents' house. I'd had my note translated into Vietnamese, 676 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 1: and I figure I'll leave it for his parents in 677 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: case they want to reconsider talking to me. I'm chregon. 678 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,359 Speaker 1: They don't come to the door, and as I'm leaving 679 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: their home, I peek into the red Mitsubishi and I 680 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:30,360 Speaker 1: noticed something. You know, it's interesting is there is a baby. 681 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: I looked in the red car. There was a baby seat, Like, 682 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: does mister dee Fake have a kid? The idea that 683 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: mister dee Fakes could be a dad was shocking. It 684 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 1: just didn't match the person I had in my head. 685 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: Back at the hotel. With a minute to think about 686 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 1: the day, I call Roxy. 687 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 5: You've been in it for like a few days now, 688 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 5: just hardcore investigating and knocking on doors and things. 689 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: How are you doing? You know, It's funny. It's like 690 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: I can get so obsessed that I forget like why 691 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: I'm even doing it. You know, It's like you get 692 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: into this adrenaline go mode. And I think there was 693 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 1: like this moment when. 694 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 3: When I'm talking to. 695 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 14: That dad and it's so heartbreaking, like you forget that 696 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 14: a big part of accountability is heartbreak, and so it 697 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:30,840 Speaker 14: I think it just makes it. 698 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,919 Speaker 1: Even a little more confusing to me of like how 699 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,439 Speaker 1: can you how can you have this site that does 700 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 1: this thing that is so bad for humanity when you 701 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 1: grew up in a place that seemed like the best 702 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: of humanity. 703 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,760 Speaker 11: I mean, it's really interesting, slush disturbing. 704 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:51,240 Speaker 10: That he might be a father. 705 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 5: It would be so much easier if they were just 706 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,280 Speaker 5: the villain that you picture. 707 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: You know, I know, it would just be so much 708 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 1: more simple. This wasn't just about the villain you picture. 709 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 1: I was thinking about having a baby at the time, 710 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: and Roxy was pregnant, and we were both thinking a 711 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: lot about the world that our children will grow up in. 712 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: My biggest fear was that we weren't just going to 713 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,359 Speaker 1: create new victims, but we would create new villains who 714 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: don't look like villains, young boys who look at mister 715 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 1: de Fakes and think this is okay. And that's why 716 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: the site was so dangerous to us. There are so 717 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: many things in the world right now that are out 718 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,320 Speaker 1: of our control that feel shitty. 719 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,839 Speaker 12: I mean, I think it's just one step in a big, 720 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 12: big journey that we're on, but it's an important one. 721 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 11: And you know, I think you just gotta get get 722 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 11: get back here to New York, and I know, well, 723 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:47,760 Speaker 11: keep we keep. 724 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 3: Digging, you know, keep digging. 725 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 4: Yeah. 726 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 1: Next week on mister Dee Fakes, We're on a stakeout 727 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: and I hopefully we're in the right parking lot. He 728 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: will show up any minute. We have like a very 729 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,719 Speaker 1: small window of time. A lot of things have to 730 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,880 Speaker 1: happen for us to be able to get to him. 731 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:14,359 Speaker 1: So fingers Cristo, there he is. Find Searching for Mister 732 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: Dee Fikes Part three right here in the mostly Human 733 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:25,760 Speaker 1: podcast feed. If you've been targeted by sexually explicit deep Fakes, 734 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. Email us at hello 735 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,360 Speaker 1: at mostly human dot com and for resources, visit beyond 736 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,800 Speaker 1: mister deep fakes dot com. That's beyond mrdepfakes dot com 737 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 1: for resources. If you are a loved one needs support, 738 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 1: text hope to six four six seven three or caller 739 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: text nine to eight eight. Mostly Human is a production 740 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 1: of iHeart Podcast and mostly Human Media. Searching for Mister 741 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: Deep Fikes is a multi year investigation in partnership with 742 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: BFD and eleven eleven Media. It's produced and edited by 743 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 1: Lori Siegel, Nicole Bouchet, Lauren Hanson, Boozafar, Roxy Hunt, and 744 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: Tony Castle. Sound designed and mixing by Derek Clements and 745 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: Abu Zafar. If you want to see our short form 746 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: vertical docu series on Mister de Fakes, go to mostly 747 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 1: Human Media on TikTok or Paris Hilton's TikTok channel. Find 748 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: us all on socials at mostly human Media. You can 749 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: also watch mostly Human on our YouTube page. And if 750 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: you want to get in touch, please email us at 751 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: hello at mostlyhuman dot com. We'd love to hear from you. 752 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: Oh and please rate and review the show and share 753 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,240 Speaker 1: it with your friends. See you next week.