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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Tracy, do you think the memestock thing is like already

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Speaker 2: over already? I'm serious.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know what, I'm looking at the chart of

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Speaker 1: game Stop and it went up a lot and now

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Speaker 1: it's coming down a lot. The thing I think is

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Speaker 1: kind of funny is if you view the entire memes

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Speaker 1: stock phenomenon from an efficient markets hypothesis, you get really

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Speaker 1: interesting questions like why didn't the market already price in

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Speaker 1: the risk or the possibility of Roaring Kitty coming back

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Speaker 1: on Twitter and tweeting a picture of a guy sitting

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Speaker 1: up in a chair that should have been priced in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. As you know, I am the

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Speaker 2: world's biggest believer in the efficient market hypothesis. It's always

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Speaker 2: priced in all the time. And for the first time

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Speaker 2: in my life, at age forty three, something has come

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Speaker 2: along to shake my faith. And it is the no.

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Speaker 2: It is the fact that the market did not pricing

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Speaker 2: apparently the possibility that after like three years of radio silent,

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Speaker 2: we would get a tweet of a guy leaning forward

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Speaker 2: from the Roaring Kitty sending the stock high.

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Speaker 3: Then I've done.

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Speaker 1: RFK Junior tweeting that he was investing in game stock.

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Speaker 2: I have to I have to completely rethink my fundamental

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Speaker 2: assumptions about how all markets work. Based on the game

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Speaker 2: Stop chart of the last ten or so days, I'm

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Speaker 2: completely revisiting all my core assumption.

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Speaker 1: It's good that the apes have you thinking.

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Speaker 2: I did a deadlift one two, Jimmy, Okay, up barges.

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Speaker 2: This isn't after school Special, except.

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Speaker 1: I've decided I'm going to base my entire personality going

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Speaker 1: forward on campaigning for a strategic pork reserve in the US.

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Speaker 2: Where's the best with imposta?

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Speaker 1: These are the important question? Is it robots taking over

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Speaker 1: the world?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: I think that like in a couple of years, the

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Speaker 2: AI will do a really good job of making the

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Speaker 2: app podcast and people say, I don't really need to

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Speaker 2: listen to Joe and Tracy anymore.

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Speaker 3: We do have.

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Speaker 1: The perfect You're listening to lots More where we catch

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Speaker 1: up with friends about what's going on right now, because.

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Speaker 2: Even when Odd Lots is over, there's always lots More.

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Speaker 1: And we really do have the perfect guest.

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Speaker 2: Luke, what do you think? Why wasn't it priced in already?

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Speaker 3: Yess? My My favorite way is to you know, answer

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Speaker 3: a question with a question, And I think the bigger

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Speaker 3: one is, why the heck if you're management of GM

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Speaker 3: and you've seen your stock get memed before, how the

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Speaker 3: hell do you not have like a shelf oh ready

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Speaker 3: to go. That's as we can sell shares into this

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Speaker 3: any time. But you know, as for why, you know,

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Speaker 3: folks were expecting this, I would say, look at what

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Speaker 3: you have. Slash haven't gotten from you know, the the

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Speaker 3: Roaring Kitty Twitter account or anything from Keith gill sense

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Speaker 3: you know, let's call it mid twenty twenty one, didn't

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Speaker 3: participate in the book or the movie effectively made about him.

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Speaker 3: It just seemed like, no, I don't know if the

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Speaker 3: you know, the Roaring Kitty just kind of went into

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Speaker 3: to pseudo hibernation. It seemed like, you know, nine Lives

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Speaker 3: over and was gone from the scene. So not something

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Speaker 3: that was on anyone's radars, certainly of all the you know,

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Speaker 3: crazy things in markets that happened, this was not one

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Speaker 3: when I was, you know, coming back into journalism that

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Speaker 3: I was expecting to get hit over the head with.

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Speaker 1: We're speaking with Luke Kawa, our former colleague at Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: We worked together with him for many years, and then

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Speaker 1: he left us to join ubs and do serious financial jobs.

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Speaker 1: And now he's back in journalism. He's a markets editor

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Speaker 1: over at Robin Hood's Sherwood Media. So a very triumphant

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Speaker 1: return to financial journalism.

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Speaker 2: Well timed. I guess, it's like great, It's like we're

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Speaker 2: going to go to Robin Hood's media arm and immediately

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Speaker 2: the game stop thing happens. It's like fate, right, That's right.

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Speaker 1: And the other reason we wanted to talk to Luke,

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Speaker 1: other than the fact that he's fun to talk to,

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Speaker 1: is he was one of the first people at Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: who took what was happening on Wall Street Bets fairly seriously.

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Speaker 1: And I think was one of the first writers of

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Speaker 1: our big cover story on Wall Street Bets when it

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Speaker 1: actually started to take off. And this was way back

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Speaker 1: in let's see early twenty twenty, Is that right.

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Speaker 3: Luke, Yeah, Yeah, that's the I'd say, you know, late

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Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, early twenty twenty. It was when we got

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Speaker 3: the you know, the prelude or the proof of concept

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Speaker 3: to a lot of things that we would see in

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Speaker 3: later years. And I love the transition from I want

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Speaker 3: to go do serious work and now he's back covering

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Speaker 3: the Memes ducks.

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Speaker 1: So yeah. Well, one of the things that I really

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Speaker 1: liked about the way you wrote about the Memes talk

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Speaker 1: phenomenon and Wall Street bets at the time was like, Okay, yes,

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Speaker 1: there was this whole cultural phenomenon attached to it where

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Speaker 1: we get to throw around words like uh, autists and

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Speaker 1: apes and lots of profanity, which I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: say on the show because then We'll just have to

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Speaker 1: bleep everything out. But you kind of approached it from

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Speaker 1: a market's angle, which I think tends to get very

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Speaker 1: forgotten nowadays. Everyone's just like, haha, game stop, isn't the

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Speaker 1: silly But when all of this first started happening, it

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Speaker 1: was kind of an experiment in market structure, and I

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Speaker 1: think people forget that. So the idea was that basically,

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Speaker 1: if you bought a bunch of options on a particular stock,

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Speaker 1: then market makers would have to go out and hedge

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Speaker 1: their own risk, and they might do that by buying

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Speaker 1: the stock, and so you get this sort of like

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Speaker 1: perpetual motion machine that effectively forces the stock to go up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great explanation. I think, like, what where

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Speaker 3: I had my kind of eureka moment, so to speak,

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Speaker 3: was there's obviously Wall Street Betch was a place where

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Speaker 3: people were pitching they're crazy option bets, they're large positions,

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Speaker 3: they're yolo's what have you, Although like with some of

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Speaker 3: the stocks getting memed several times. Now I don't know

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Speaker 3: if like yolo is the way to describe it. You

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Speaker 3: get two or three opportunities seemingly on a lot of these.

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Speaker 2: Things, but if but if you miss it, you get

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Speaker 2: to live a second time exactly.

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Speaker 3: But one of the things that really struck a chord

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Speaker 3: with me was you saw like a lot of you know,

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Speaker 3: intrigue on maybe like smaller names or story stocks. Tessel

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Speaker 3: was obviously an early favorite of the Wall Street Bets community,

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Speaker 3: but there was one user who one time made the argument.

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Speaker 3: And this was after that, you know, I did a

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Speaker 3: little publishing on the Perpetual Motion Machine as you have it.

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Speaker 3: You know, the quote unquote forced Gamma squeeze if we're

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Speaker 3: getting into the Greeks. But one person said we should

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Speaker 3: try to do this with Microsoft tomorrow in the pre market,

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Speaker 3: and I saw this, but I go like, okay, like

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Speaker 3: let's let's relax, You're going to meme Microsoft now like

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Speaker 3: this is going to be like a thing you're going

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Speaker 3: to try to do. Why not like come on, like

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Speaker 3: stick to your own knitting kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: Then there was the next morning a crazy amount of

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Speaker 3: call activity in Microsoft and buying in the pre market

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Speaker 3: and Microsoft up like it was something like two and

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Speaker 3: a half to three percent for no reason. And that's

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Speaker 3: when I started to take it more seriously as a okay,

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Speaker 3: well coordinated buying power at certain times through certain vehicles

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Speaker 3: can even leave an imprint on you know what was

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Speaker 3: then the and probably still is now the largest US

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Speaker 3: doc by market cap. So that's something that you know,

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Speaker 3: really blew my mind then and was something worth following

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Speaker 3: up on as it became kind of even more coordinated,

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Speaker 3: even more revolving around kind of you know, certain stories.

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Speaker 3: And then the success the proof of concept grew to

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Speaker 3: a point where you you know, you get more and

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Speaker 3: more power because if nothing else, this is a momentum

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Speaker 3: play that just got you know, more momentum as it

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Speaker 3: got more attention.

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Speaker 2: It's so crazy, by the way, I know, this is

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Speaker 2: not the point. It's so wild to me that Microsoft

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Speaker 2: is still the biggest company in the entire world, given

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Speaker 2: it was the biggest company in the entire world or

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Speaker 2: more or less decades ago, and so many different things

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Speaker 2: that ostensibly would have disrupted it, from the Internet to whatever, Apple,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. And yet still I did. But I know

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Speaker 2: that that's a divergence.

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Speaker 1: No one wants to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: I know, I know, I know. I just that's just

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Speaker 2: one of those facts that still blows my mind. That

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Speaker 2: big said. So you mentioned, you know, GMME management should

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Speaker 2: have had that shelf registration ready to go. AMC, which

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Speaker 2: always seemed like, I guess I would say, played a

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Speaker 2: little bit more cynically into the memestock crowd than the

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Speaker 2: GMC management. They did have that plan ready to go.

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Speaker 2: They did do something because they broke.

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Speaker 1: The emergency Memestock glass, Yeah, took their plan off the shelf.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so the yes, But what happened with AMC during

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Speaker 3: this round was they had a they had a shelf

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Speaker 3: offering that they had pretty much sold out of, so

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Speaker 3: to speak, by by the end of so just as

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Speaker 3: it was starting, they had an opportunity to sell a

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Speaker 3: little more into it. And I remember, you know, on

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Speaker 3: the on the Monday or something going like GEZ AMC

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Speaker 3: really really blew this one really blew this opportunity. And

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Speaker 3: it's weird because as you know, you know, the CEO there,

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Speaker 3: Aaron has done a i would say, a fantastic job

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Speaker 3: and recognizing that to a certain extent, the shareholder base

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Speaker 3: is a lot of the product, both in terms of

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Speaker 3: you know, integration into you know, rewards that you get

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Speaker 3: to go to the theater, and also in terms of

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Speaker 3: some of the more shrewd let's call them financing angles

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Speaker 3: that have been litigated back and forth through the courts

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Speaker 3: but seem to have mainly served the purpose of raising

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Speaker 3: more capital from AMC, from people that just wanted to

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Speaker 3: see the stock go up and the company succeed. And

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Speaker 3: then of course AMC, right after you think that even

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Speaker 3: they kind of missed the window here, the next day

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Speaker 3: they you know, effectively I've called you know, they turned

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Speaker 3: memes into a debt jubilee and able to issue bors

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Speaker 3: stairs trade trade shairs for for debt retire effectively the debt.

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Speaker 3: And it's that's one of my favorite parts about this

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Speaker 3: is just watching the the memes make things happen in

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Speaker 3: real life for companies that is going to have a

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Speaker 3: meaningful impact on their on their ability as a as

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Speaker 3: a going forward concern in the months, quarters, possibly years

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Speaker 3: to come. What was a little different about GME was

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Speaker 3: that as this was happening, as this was starting, GM

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Speaker 3: was already in its earnings blackout period. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: typically that is that is something that is going to

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Speaker 3: preclude you from coming forward if you don't already have

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Speaker 3: you know, an existing shelf open to to be able

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Speaker 3: to sell sharers at market, that's going to preclude you

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Speaker 3: from bringing one to the market at that point, unless

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Speaker 3: you're also willing to come forward with your you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of preliminary earnings results. So it's probably more likely

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Speaker 3: that the you know, effectively the choke point on GM

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Speaker 3: being able to cash in more on this from the

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Speaker 3: management perspective was just the you know, I think it

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Speaker 3: was five days it probably took for them to get

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Speaker 3: those numbers together, so they were able to say like, hey,

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Speaker 3: here's our numbers. Also, yes, we want to sell another

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Speaker 3: forty five million and shairs if you'll have them at

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Speaker 3: a price. But you know, by that time, we had

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Speaker 3: already seen a lot of deflation in the in the

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Speaker 3: stock price by then.

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Speaker 1: Yeah I've said this before, but I think one of

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Speaker 1: the nicer interpretations of the memes stock phenomenon is people

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Speaker 1: basically treating the stock market buying shares of a company

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Speaker 1: that is very much struggling to maintain or achieve profitability

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Speaker 1: as a giant GoFundMe for businesses that they kind of

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Speaker 1: like or feel some sense of nostalgia for, which, again

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, when no one was able to

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Speaker 1: go to the movie theater, that did actually make a

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Speaker 1: big difference for amc Luke, I have a really important

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Speaker 1: question for you, as a fellow redditor. Is it true

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Speaker 1: that you may be a mod on Wall Street Bets

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Speaker 1: and how did that rumor get started?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 3: I can, I can say confidently so I am not

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Speaker 3: a cat and I am not a r All Street

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Speaker 3: Bets subreddit monitor. I am. I'm a mod on nowhere

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Speaker 3: on Reddit. I have no clue where it all of

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Speaker 3: this got started. I think it may come from the

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Speaker 3: era where I was back in twenty two twenty, where

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Speaker 3: I was more kind of fervently having back and forth

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Speaker 3: with folks there. And I know the thing I remember

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Speaker 3: most vividly about that is I was probably, I think

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Speaker 3: the only one posting Bloomberg charts on Wall Street Bets

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Speaker 3: because everyone was like, what what is this chart? Background

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Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of e trades and stuff

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Speaker 3: of that nature. So I think that's maybe why I

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Speaker 3: stood out to some folks back then.

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Speaker 2: You would be a really good Wall Street bed mod.

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Speaker 2: So I'm just saying I would probably be even more

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Speaker 2: inclined to pay attention to it if you were. But

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Speaker 2: I will trust your denial. I don't think you would

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Speaker 2: be dishonest with us that you're not one of the

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Speaker 2: pupil secretly running that page. Here's the other thing I'm

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Speaker 2: thinking about, Like, with this sort of seemingly brief round

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Speaker 2: of game memestock menia over like, it alsol like I

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Speaker 2: don't know, people are saying, like, what a stuck culture

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Speaker 2: we have? We're doing this again. It's like we know

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Speaker 2: how the story begins, we know how the story ends,

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Speaker 2: and so why not just like fast forward the tape

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Speaker 2: and get through the entire process quickly, like all of

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Speaker 2: the ups and downs with this without the sort of

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Speaker 2: awe and mysticism around it this time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say this was a lot more of

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Speaker 3: a of a cynical episode. And I think if you

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Speaker 3: just compare and contrast the previous rounds we've had. You

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Speaker 3: can a see it in the you can see it

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Speaker 3: kind of in the raw numbers. Whether we want to

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Speaker 3: talk about like how much total call volumes rose, how

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Speaker 3: much volumes rose, turnover value traded, YadA, YadA, YadA, all

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Speaker 3: of that is very different from now to then. But

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Speaker 3: it's almost kind of like a chicken and egg question there,

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Speaker 3: because is is there something about the story that was different?

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Speaker 3: Is there something about the market structure that was different

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Speaker 3: this time round? I would say yes on both sides.

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Speaker 3: I'll start with the story first. Heading up to twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty one, there had already been you know, the a

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Speaker 3: small crowd including Roaring Kitty, including Rod Allsman, I think

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Speaker 3: you've had on in the past. Who are who are

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Speaker 3: really making the vigorous, you know, value case for GameStop

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Speaker 3: that you know, you had this one big last puff,

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Speaker 3: so to speak, of the legacy business that was being

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Speaker 3: price Azz was going to imminently go out of business,

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Speaker 3: but it probably had a lot more runway in terms

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Speaker 3: of another full cycle of generating some some free cash flow.

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Speaker 3: And then maybe you also have this you know, big

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Speaker 3: effective option on you know, the the loyal GameStop subscribers

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Speaker 3: that you know you can maybe turn into and monetize

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Speaker 3: a little bit better than you are. Couple that with

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Speaker 3: also the high amount of short interests. So that was

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Speaker 3: a story that started good got even better when you

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Speaker 3: know the stock four x effectively over the final four

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Speaker 3: or so months of twenty twenty, and then you had

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Speaker 3: Ryan Cohen coming in in early January, so there was

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Speaker 3: actually like a lot of potential catalysts that were happening

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Speaker 3: at that time. I think you also got another another

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Speaker 3: round of Stimmi checks, and on the entertainment side, I

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Speaker 3: don't know how much pro sports we really had back

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Speaker 3: on then. So all the stars really aligned for the

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Speaker 3: story to be a lot better and that to be

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Speaker 3: able to command a lot more mind share compared to now,

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Speaker 3: nothing's been happening in game SOT. There's been really no

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Speaker 3: change in the fundamental story. All that really happened is,

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Speaker 3: you know, right before this shares got back to where

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Speaker 3: they were in January twenty twenty one, right before they

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Speaker 3: went parabolic. So that's really all that changed this time.

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Speaker 3: I would also say potentially something to highlight on the

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Speaker 3: on the market structure side that may have changed a

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Speaker 3: little bit. It's it's it's tough to quantify, and this

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Speaker 3: is still somewhat of a more embryonic hypothesis on my end.

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Speaker 3: But if you just want to compare the you know,

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Speaker 3: let's look at the peak in call volumes traded on

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Speaker 3: GME at different times. At this the call volume peak

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Speaker 3: was about six hundred and fifty thousand and today. Back

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Speaker 3: in January twenty twenty one, that peaked at over four million.

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Speaker 3: So one of the factors that goes into two options

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Speaker 3: pricing is effectively, the more an option is in demand,

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Speaker 3: the higher the implied volatility for that option, i e.

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Speaker 3: It's its cost should be. What happened this time was

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Speaker 3: we did see in my eyes, for a lower amount

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Speaker 3: of volume and for a lower move in the in

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Speaker 3: the stock some of those options, those lottery ticket options,

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Speaker 3: you start to see the implied volatility jack up a

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Speaker 3: lot faster than they had in the past. So that's

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Speaker 3: a bit of a sign that, you know, maybe if

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Speaker 3: GME didn't have the shelf ready to go, market makers

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Speaker 3: had their playbook ready to go on, how more or

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Speaker 3: less they were going to respond to something like this

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Speaker 3: happening again and build themselves a little in a little

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Speaker 3: better margin of safety. I would say, so just worse

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Speaker 3: story and you know, better market mechanics probably are are

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Speaker 3: things that help this thiszle out a lot lot quicker

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Speaker 3: and just be a lot more about making a quick

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Speaker 3: buck than any kind of you know, grand story you

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Speaker 3: can wrap around about you know, sticking it to the

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Speaker 3: man or you know, sticking it to a particular hedge fund. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that's right, especially about the market makers being

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Speaker 1: more prepared for this, and also maybe even the hedge funds.

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Speaker 1: And you see this discourse on Wall Street Bets itself

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Speaker 1: where people talk about how like Wall Street couldn't beat them,

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Speaker 1: and so they decided to join them instead. And now

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Speaker 1: you have a lot of hedge funds that are actively

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Speaker 1: monitoring all sorts of social media, but Wall Street Bets

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Speaker 1: is certainly one of them, or plugging into discord servers

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Speaker 1: and things like that to try to track sentiment. So

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Speaker 1: in some ways, the big irony here is that I

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Speaker 1: guess Wall Street Bets has kind of become more intertwined

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Speaker 1: with Wall Street itself.

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Speaker 3: I think if you if you know that momentum is

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Speaker 3: a factor, if you have seen this story play out before,

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Speaker 3: I think there's a reason why a lot of the

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Speaker 3: socks with the kind of similar characteristics or have had

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Speaker 3: these the similar history during previous rounds of retail media.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's a surprise that, you know, to

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Speaker 3: some extent they traded like a bit of a basket.

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Speaker 3: That is, that's something that suggests a you know, a

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Speaker 3: lot more professional piggybacking at play here rather than just

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Speaker 3: a more grassroots move in all of these names.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, I find that at this point

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Speaker 2: I hadn't I, unlike Tracy, I don't troll troll Wall

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Speaker 2: Street bets. I try to control to U troll and

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Speaker 2: your trol, but I don't troll. I don't troll either,

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Speaker 2: but I don't troll. I did not realize this phenomenon,

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Speaker 2: that the inherent richness of the options as measured by

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Speaker 2: their the volatility, had gone up so much faster in

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Speaker 2: this whole phenomenon with the market makers just getting better.

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Speaker 2: It's like, oh, we've seen this before. We're going to

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Speaker 2: price them more when we sell these call options to

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Speaker 2: end retail that we're going to like make them pay

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Speaker 2: more right off the bat, because we've seen that playbook before.

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Speaker 2: I find that really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Well, the other thing that I noticed looking at Wall

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Speaker 1: Street Bets recently, is that like roaring Kitty has basically

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Speaker 1: been excommunicated from that subreddit. So when he tweeted, you know,

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Speaker 1: someone made a post about it, but then the moderators

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Speaker 1: came in and said, you can't really talk about roaring

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Speaker 1: Kitty and if you want to talk about GameStop then

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Speaker 1: go over to a super stunk or there's a dedicated

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Speaker 1: GME subreddit as well. When did that happen and why, like,

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Speaker 1: why is rooring Kitty basically not part of Wall Street

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Speaker 1: Bets anymore?

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Speaker 3: At least I can say that in terms of the

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Speaker 3: the archived post like they're they'll still there, so the

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Speaker 3: record of you know, all of roing Kitty's position updates,

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Speaker 3: all of that still there. In terms of the the

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Speaker 3: lack of GME AMC, I think that is more a

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Speaker 3: legal liability thing brought on by you know, that particular

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Speaker 3: subreddit mod's opinions on what is taller rble, what is

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Speaker 3: not in in the wake of you know a lot

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Speaker 3: of people based SEC investigations after twenty twenty one, and

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Speaker 3: you know, had demanded all their sec demanded like all

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Speaker 3: their messages on Reddit to this this and that any

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Speaker 3: other message boards, any discords, uh scrubbing for that and

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Speaker 3: you know, at pretty amazing legal expense. So I think

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Speaker 3: that's certainly an angle here in terms of you know,

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Speaker 3: those folks trying to cover some legal liability. Also, you know,

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Speaker 3: around the same time, I think there's been more of

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Speaker 3: a divide or divorce among that that Moud's community, of

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Speaker 3: which I was never a part that, including one that

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Speaker 3: you know, saw the effect of the first founder, Jamie Rugazinski,

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Speaker 3: exit around during these times and you know, in the

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Speaker 3: wake of publishing his book and you know, some question

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Speaker 3: over trademarks, some questions over self promotion. I believe still

401
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Speaker 3: in legal battles with with Reddit over that to this day.

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Speaker 3: So I think just with all the attention that came

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Speaker 3: on this because of gm AMC and Roaring Kitty, you know,

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Speaker 3: they say there's no such thing as as good press,

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Speaker 3: but I guess when good press can lead to potentially

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Speaker 3: high legal bills, then maybe that's that's the way where

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Speaker 3: it can.

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Speaker 2: I think you meant to say there's no such thing

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Speaker 2: as bad press, but I actually think there's no such

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Speaker 2: thing as good press. Is actually yeah, yeah, no, I

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Speaker 2: think that's probably true. Never talk to the media. I

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Speaker 2: kind of believe that. Don't ever, no one everyone ignored that,

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Speaker 2: especially future all.

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Speaker 1: You do realize what we're doing here right well, we're

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Speaker 1: media talking to media right now, But on other days,

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Speaker 1: people outside of the media do talk to us.

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Speaker 2: Why though, who talks to media? I wouldn't ever talk

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Speaker 2: to media. Don't, but don't no one pay attention.

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Speaker 1: Please for the sake of this podcast. Everyone who's listening,

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Speaker 1: don't don't take that to heart. Ignore Joe.

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Speaker 2: Okay. You know the other thing. When the first round

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Speaker 2: of memestock Mania happened, there was all of this sort

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Speaker 2: of I would call it like amateur anthropology, or maybe

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Speaker 2: amateur sociology is like men and they're gambling and blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah, and you know that faded. But now we

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Speaker 2: have sports betting, which people talk about. The explosion of

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Speaker 2: crypto has been doing very well. Is there is that

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Speaker 2: a thing? Did it like spread out, did it metastasized

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Speaker 2: to other areas or was there really sort of this

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Speaker 2: fever pitch in twenty twenty one with that stuff that

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Speaker 2: we haven't really come back to.

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Speaker 3: I'd see a little bit from Colin a, a little bit

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Speaker 3: from Calm b here, I think if you see, you

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Speaker 3: know a lot of the accounts that are you know,

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Speaker 3: willing to you know, post their you know, sell the

436
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 3: gam into the moon, I bought even you know, one

437
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 3: hundred percent into the move, bought more options type of folks.

438
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 3: So those are also the same kind of people who

439
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 3: their next you know, tweet'll be a coin I've never

440
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 3: heard of, or a like, yeah, a lot of a

441
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 3: lot of all coins that I've never heard of effectively

442
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 3: that are also you know, preferred vehicles of there. So

443
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 3: I think like having it be more dispersed, more outlets

444
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 3: effectively for you to speculated, I wouldn't be surprised if

445
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 3: that's something that helped kind of cool this round a

446
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 3: lot more. But I really don't think it can be

447
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 3: emphasized as much the complete lack of a story, like

448
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 3: at least last time. My personal view is that nobody

449
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 3: ever really cared about Roaring Kitty's story. If you look

450
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 3: back at you know, the streams he used to do,

451
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 3: the last one he did, and he talked about this

452
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 3: in front of Congress, the last dream he did in

453
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,719
Speaker 3: December twenty twenty. Stock's already up three hundred percent by

454
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 3: this time in a matter of months had ninety six

455
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 3: concurrent viewers. It isn't until the stock starts to move

456
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 3: more in January and people, you know, Roaring Kitty effectively

457
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: connects the dots that yes, I'm also a deep fing

458
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 3: value that you start to see all of the interest

459
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 3: in him pick up. It picked up because he was winning.

460
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 3: People weren't interested in fundamentals. They turned the fundamental guy

461
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 3: into their momentum catalyst. So that's all it was. And

462
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 3: this time we started from that standpoint with nothing on

463
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 3: the fundamental And you know that to me is another

464
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 3: just huge reason why this is just a really really

465
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 3: faint echo of what we've seen before. We can't even

466
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 3: pretend there's a story.

467
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: Crazy. Like I said, I haven't been following Wall Street

468
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 2: bets as much. Do people still sort of post their

469
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 2: negative screenshots just as just as enthusiastic. Yeah, the lost part.

470
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: You know, I read this biography once of a professional

471
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 2: poker player and he said he had a friend trying

472
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: to think how he can say who would get into

473
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 2: a state of arousal upon losing a big hand in poker?

474
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 2: And I'm just sort of curious if that's still a

475
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 2: thing there where people seem to just get just excited

476
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: about losing money as they make money. Ew, I'll find

477
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 2: that book, Luke.

478
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: One thing I was wondering is so Roaring Kitty on Twitter.

479
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: I think he follows like ninety people just about. I

480
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: know he follows you, and he follows me. He does

481
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: not follow you.

482
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 2: I checked he does follow me a screenshot. Right now?

483
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: All right, we can argue about.

484
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 2: Have you had to argue I have a right here. Look,

485
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 2: I'm wait, I'm gonna walk over to Tracy one second.

486
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,479
Speaker 1: I can't believe we're arguing over who Rowing Kitty follows.

487
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: That's weird. Okay, fine, fine, Joe wins that round. But

488
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: have you had people reaching out to you asking, like

489
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: for you to get in touch with Rooring Kitty for them,

490
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: because this has happened to be to both me and

491
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: Sid recently, which is kind of nuts, Like this idea

492
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: that there's there's one guy on Twitter who is tweeting

493
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: out at the moment memes and like clips from movies

494
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: and not actually saying anything about specific stocks. But you

495
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: have a bunch of people who are like, oh, please

496
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: please put me in touch with Roaring Kitty.

497
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 3: Yes, I will say a big deluge a lot of

498
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 3: it from just general can you get me in touch?

499
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 3: Egg adjacent type accounts, but also I would say a

500
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 3: lot of interest from people who operate in the in

501
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 3: the social V and DA sphere, wanting to be able

502
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 3: to contact to effectively say like, hey, will you do

503
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 3: you know sponsored or integrated sponsored content. I'd be, you know,

504
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 3: interested in letting you do that. And uh, you know,

505
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 3: I my you know, kind of personal view on that is,

506
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 3: you know, certainly not passing any of them along. I

507
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 3: would love to get in contact first, though I don't

508
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 3: think that's necessarily a very high probability.

509
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 2: And tried, He've all tried, and I assume he's responded

510
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 2: to none of us.

511
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: Yes, I made an excellent meme. I made a meme

512
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: of the the guys sitting up and I put on

513
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: the screen odd lots hoping and I sent it to him,

514
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: hoping that that would entice him. But I'm afraid to

515
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: say it hasn't worked yet yet.

516
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, exactly. So a lot of that and the

517
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 3: I mean the I think the social media angle is

518
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 3: very interesting because again there was at the beginning a

519
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 3: lot of confusion, misinformation. Is this actually Keith Gill, Is

520
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 3: this you know, a you know, performance art scene. Was

521
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 3: his account sold to someone the you know, no reports

522
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 3: I've seen that you know suggested it isn't him, and

523
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 3: the reports that suggested it's sold have been debunked. But

524
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 3: I you know, I think that's where you have to

525
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 3: really think hard. In contrast the like, the reason why

526
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 3: this had the power to move the you know, move

527
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 3: certain stocks this time around was because of the decentralized

528
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 3: nature of the trust. I would say that Keith gil

529
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 3: built up as a person. He was, you know, one

530
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 3: man doing fundamental research, betting big, doubling down, doubling down

531
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 3: and winning consistently and never selling as far as as

532
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 3: far as anyone knew. So you know, comparing contrast that

533
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 3: to even Elon Musk. Now, if you look at the

534
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 3: look you look at the action that happened in like

535
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 3: any Argentinian a d RS or just ETFs that US

536
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 3: investors can access. What happened after Elon Musk said, you

537
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 3: know invest in Argentina. I love Argentina. You know how

538
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 3: they are is is great. Really didn't see a pickup

539
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 3: in anything there. So it really just goes to show

540
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 3: the kind of I think newfound focus on who we

541
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 3: select to trust to tell us about whether things will

542
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: go up or not. Elon Musk has obviously spent a

543
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 3: lot of currency on different vehicles effectively in terms of

544
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 3: things that might degrade his trust by talking about different

545
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: things that you have gone up and then down a lot,

546
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,239
Speaker 3: Keith Gill hadn't. So you know, that's what kind of

547
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 3: makes the That's what kind of adds a certain cachet

548
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 3: to the comments coming out of this account, and certainly

549
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 3: why people would want to use this account if they could,

550
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 3: to be able to promote to their own ventures. That's

551
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 3: why there's seemingly a lot of interest in that.

552
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: You know what else is funny? On that note, no

553
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: one refers to Keith Gill as anything other than Keith

554
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: Gill or Roaring Kitty anymore. And of course, originally on

555
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: Reddit he was known as deep Thing Value. I think

556
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: I can say that, but no one says that anymore.

557
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: Value is dead, Tracy. The only person in the meme

558
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 2: arena that I trust is not Keith or Elon is

559
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: luke Kawa.

560
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: That's fair.

561
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 2: Lots More is produced by Carmen Rodriguez and dash Ol Bennett,

562
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 2: with help from Moses Onam and kil brooks.

563
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: Our sound engineer is Blake Maples. Sage Bauman is the

564
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: head of Bloomberg Podcasts.

565
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: Please rate, review, and subscribe to Odd, Lots and Lots

566
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: More on your favorite podcast platforms.

567
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: And remember that Bloomberg subscribers can listen to all our

568
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: podcasts at free by connecting through Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.