Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Governor Tim Walls says Dems need
Speaker 1: to be a little meaner. He's from the Midwest. We
Speaker 1: have such a great show for you today. The Lincoln
Speaker 1: Project's own Rick Wilson joins us to discuss elon short
Speaker 1: lived rain on Doge and what his exit from the
Speaker 1: District of Columbia means. Then we'll talk to MSNBC's Antonia
Speaker 1: Hilton about her new NBC News digital doc The Children's Pastor.
Speaker 1: But first the news.
Speaker 2: Molly so a few times on the show, the news
Speaker 2: has come right into our own backyard.
Speaker 1: And in this time it's really yes.
Speaker 2: Many of you have probably seen the news that DHS
Speaker 2: officials arrested a staffer from Jerry Nidler's office. Temporarily. Prominently
Speaker 2: in that video is my wife, and the staffer was
Speaker 2: arrested as a friend of mine and one of the sweetest,
Speaker 2: most amazing people I know. And I hate very much
Speaker 2: that this happened to her, because I can't think of
Speaker 2: anyone I'd rather not happen to more. But obviously this
Speaker 2: was a very gross misstep. They said they were looking
Speaker 2: for rioters. There was no riot going on. There was
Speaker 2: people protesting the immigration courts where Eric Adams has allowed
Speaker 2: Christy Nomes DHS to come in and arrest people going
Speaker 2: in their immigration court dates, which is in the same
Speaker 2: building as Congressman Nadler's offices. And in the video circulating
Speaker 2: you can see my wife not allowing them entry without
Speaker 2: a warrant into the office at first. I think the
Speaker 2: thing I'd like to say, I'm be curious of your thoughts, Molly.
Speaker 2: Is we on a recent episode discussed that Stephen Miller
Speaker 2: has said that they have to do more arrests and
Speaker 2: ratchet things up. And this is what happens when you
Speaker 2: in bolden law enforcement to go even harder, is that
Speaker 2: you have roast smith steps like this.
Speaker 1: Yes, this is so fucked up, And I think that
Speaker 1: it's important to remember this's a member of Congress, Democrat
Speaker 1: who represents the majority of Manhattan. So then why are
Speaker 1: they arresting staffers in a congressman's office. Why are they
Speaker 1: arresting staffers of a Democratic congressman? And I think the
Speaker 1: most likely scenario is because they want to intimidate them, right,
Speaker 1: there's no way these people are writers, right, they are
Speaker 1: staffers for a member of Congress. So the question is
Speaker 1: what does this mean. I mean, you have these are
Speaker 1: members of the law enforcement trying to intimidate democratic elected
Speaker 1: and their staff. I think that we see what this is, right,
Speaker 1: This is autocratic stuff. Right, when you start arresting your
Speaker 1: political enemy, is just like Bukel does in Venezuela. You
Speaker 1: are an autocrat. These are autocratic things, right, Just like
Speaker 1: Trump administration is going to war with Harvard, they are
Speaker 1: now trying to arrest their political opponents. And I think
Speaker 1: that there is a real straight line here. I think
Speaker 1: we have to be clear eyed. I think we have
Speaker 1: to understand this is real autocratic stuff. This is not
Speaker 1: people breaking the law. This doesn't even look like people
Speaker 1: breaking the law. This looks like people working in an
Speaker 1: office for a Democratic congressman. And this is not something
Speaker 1: where it's like we know what this happened. Because Jesse's
Speaker 1: wife was there.
Speaker 2: She's our picture is on every major news website as
Speaker 2: we speak.
Speaker 1: Right, So this isn't like maybe the reporting is wrong,
Speaker 1: maybe this didn't happen the way they're saying it. Jesse's
Speaker 1: wife saw it happen.
Speaker 2: It's also on video, right, it's.
Speaker 1: On video obviously, but it's more like we even know
Speaker 1: someone where this happened. So we really have like firsthand
Speaker 1: knowledge of DHS going into the office of a Democratic
Speaker 1: congressperson who represents much of Manhattan and arresting a member
Speaker 1: of his staff. Now, in the end, Jerry Nadler was
Speaker 1: able to explain to these people that they had no
Speaker 1: basis to arrest a member of his staff. But I
Speaker 1: think it's important to realize here, this is what's happening
Speaker 1: in America. Okay, this is autocracy. This is it's here. Okay,
Speaker 1: autocracy is here. The war, the Trump administration's war against Harvard,
Speaker 1: them arresting members of a Democratic congressman's staff, this is here.
Speaker 1: Autocracy is here. And I think we have to be
Speaker 1: clear eyed. We have to understand what we're dealing with,
Speaker 1: and we have to push back in every possible peaceful
Speaker 1: way we can, because this is we have. The door
Speaker 1: has been opened to this. The second Trump administration was
Speaker 1: the opening of the door to Trump's worst authoritarian instincts.
Speaker 1: And we have to be really clear eyed about what's happening.
Speaker 1: We have to push back, we have to fight in
Speaker 1: nonviolent but important and smart ways and protect ourselves each
Speaker 1: other and also American democracy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I should also say I cannot be more
Speaker 2: proud of my wife for the way she handled this
Speaker 2: sid what you see her doing that video is exactly
Speaker 2: what we all have to do if this comes to
Speaker 2: our door, which is, we have to demand that they
Speaker 2: use due process and that they don't skirt the law
Speaker 2: with their tough guy tactics and bluster her. And that's
Speaker 2: exactly what you see her do there, And I cannot
Speaker 2: be more proud of what she did.
Speaker 1: Yes, Jesse Canon, wife guy, and we love it. We
Speaker 1: love it, and it happens to be that that wife
Speaker 1: is awesome. So really happy that we get to celebrate
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon's wife guyness, but also that wife happens to
Speaker 1: be the best. So I'm glad that everybody's safe. And
Speaker 1: in the end, Jeryndler really did protect his staff, which
Speaker 1: is really it says a lot of good stuff about
Speaker 1: jery Nandler. Despite the fact that I'm mad at him
Speaker 1: for any number of things in which I'm mad at
Speaker 1: members of elected I am, in fact, really glad to
Speaker 1: see this, and that's what we all need to be doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Molly in more of our idiocracy news type
Speaker 2: thing instead of our authoritarian news. Tulsi Gabbert, she's got
Speaker 2: to do some innovative stuff here as D and I chief,
Speaker 2: and she's considering ways to revamp Trump's intelligence BRIEFIX to
Speaker 2: appeal to his absolutely awful attention span.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, this is again let us file this
Speaker 1: under Thank god they're idiots, because otherwise we'd all be cooked.
Speaker 1: And look, we may all end up being cooked. But
Speaker 1: right now, the biggest problem is that. And again this
Speaker 1: is Tulsi Gabbert, right, the woman who defended Bisher, right,
Speaker 1: the butcher of Syria, president of Syria who gots his
Speaker 1: own people. This guy not a good guy. Telsey Gabbert
Speaker 1: very dubious, spouts Russian propaganda. Hillary Clinton said she was
Speaker 1: a Russian asset. Again, who is to say, but she
Speaker 1: is the woman who delivers the presidential Daily Brief, which
Speaker 1: is in itself very worrying. But one of her big problems,
Speaker 1: because Trump is a moron and she is perhaps compromised,
Speaker 1: is that Trump eat too interested in the PDB, and
Speaker 1: so one of the things that they that his staff
Speaker 1: has had to do. And this was true in Trump
Speaker 1: one point zero two is try to get him interested
Speaker 1: in it, And so Gabbert has figured out that the
Speaker 1: only way that she can get him interested is to
Speaker 1: make it seem like perhaps Fox News. Look again, Fox
Speaker 1: News hosts are the one thing that has been with
Speaker 1: both administrations Trump one point o Trump two point zero
Speaker 1: is that the most powerful people in the world, at
Speaker 1: least in this moment are Fox News is programmers and bookers,
Speaker 1: because they are the people who are actually getting Trump's attention.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is hilarious as there's headlines that say
Speaker 2: things this week like Trump was not informed of Ukraine
Speaker 2: attack on Russia. And it's because this we've read these
Speaker 2: reports so many times that he can't pay attention to these.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, so again, Americans may be tuning out, but
Speaker 1: so is their presence.
Speaker 2: Boy well, speaking of tuning out, Mike Johnson, Speaker of
Speaker 2: the House's Brain, who I don't think it's just so
Speaker 2: tuned in. He says, four point eight million Americans won't
Speaker 2: lose Medicaid access unless they choose.
Speaker 3: To do so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they choose to do so, they will. Again,
Speaker 1: this is the whole thing that they've been doing on
Speaker 1: the Sunday shows is all of the members of this administration,
Speaker 1: which I mean, good for them for going on the
Speaker 1: Sunday shows, but bad for them for lying. They're lying
Speaker 1: because look why Mike Johnson is going on Sunday shows
Speaker 1: right now is because he knows that he needs the
Speaker 1: Senate to pass the big beautiful bill filled with bullshit
Speaker 1: the BBBB, the Big Beautiful Bullshit Bill is now it
Speaker 1: has passed the House and it now needs the Senate.
Speaker 1: Has been on vacation, but now the Senate is back,
Speaker 1: and Johnson wants the Senate to pass the one piece
Speaker 1: of legislation that this administration is going to pass. This
Speaker 1: is likely the only thing they'll do by July fourth.
Speaker 1: It's not going to make this July fourth deadline unless
Speaker 1: the Senate is completely functions in a totally different way
Speaker 1: than it has historically, which it may because remember, these
Speaker 1: people have completely given up their power to Trump, and
Speaker 1: so Trump was able to whip the House vote very
Speaker 1: very fast by calling people and yelling at them or
Speaker 1: doing something else. I don't know, maybe they were threatening them,
Speaker 1: who even knows. But now this bill goes to the Senate.
Speaker 1: The question is will Republican senators be the pathetic, craven
Speaker 1: opportunists that they were with Trump's cabinet, And the answer
Speaker 1: is maybe yes, right, I mean, they signed off on
Speaker 1: things like putting RFK Junior in charge of all of
Speaker 1: our health, which is why none of us know now
Speaker 1: like bird flu, they cured it or maybe they didn't. Right,
Speaker 1: we don't know what the fuck is going on there
Speaker 1: because they're not releasing information, you know, and they've still
Speaker 1: they're no longer recommending the COVID vaccine for pregnant women.
Speaker 1: So and we all know that COVID can be very,
Speaker 1: very terrible for pregnant women, right, I mean, we've seen
Speaker 1: numerous stories about how it's much much worse for pregnant women.
Speaker 1: So I don't know what's going to happen here, but
Speaker 1: they are literally on television lying about what this bill
Speaker 1: is going to do, at least what the House version
Speaker 1: of this bill does. Again, these Medicare cuts may get
Speaker 1: tempered in the Senate, but they may not. I mean,
Speaker 1: we'll see what this Senate does. Again. You will not
Speaker 1: lose money betting that Republicans will be cowardly. So there's
Speaker 1: a likely scenario where Republicans in the Senate rubber stamp
Speaker 1: Trump's agenda. And by the way, this is the MAGA
Speaker 1: agenda in this House bill. So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1: But there is literally no evidence to support Republican bravery.
Speaker 1: Rick Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln Project and
Speaker 1: the host of the Enemy's List. Welcome back to past politics,
Speaker 1: Rick Wilson.
Speaker 3: Only Jong fast I would ask how you're doing, But
Speaker 3: I know how you're doing.
Speaker 1: I'm doing Okay, we did. We lost port Spartacus yesterday.
Speaker 1: I had to put him down. Waited maybe a little
Speaker 1: too long to put him down.
Speaker 3: So that was the story with my Riley.
Speaker 1: He yeah, you know, he was really in pain and
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 3: And that's just not fair. That's just not fair to them.
Speaker 3: So you need the right thing.
Speaker 1: There's a lesson in there to do it, maybe a
Speaker 1: month or two earlier.
Speaker 3: But enough about Elon being fired.
Speaker 1: Yes, speaking of which, you see that interview, this CBS interview.
Speaker 1: Was it CBS where they asked him about his work
Speaker 1: with destroying the federal government and.
Speaker 3: He's like, we're talking about rockets.
Speaker 1: We're here to talk about We're not here to talk
Speaker 1: about all the carnage.
Speaker 3: I but apparently we are do you.
Speaker 1: Get to turn it on and off like that? Is that?
Speaker 3: No? Look, I have some rules about politics that I've
Speaker 3: always followed and not everybody does. But you treat civilians
Speaker 3: one way and active combatants in politics another. And he
Speaker 3: chose to make himself an active combatant in our politics.
Speaker 3: He chose to put himself in a position where he
Speaker 3: hurt people, where he deliberately chose to hurt people. And
Speaker 3: because of that, you don't get to walk back out
Speaker 3: the door and go, never mind, Hey, I'm sorry I
Speaker 3: burned down your village, but let's continue trading. You know,
Speaker 3: it just doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1: It's so funny because it's like we kept thinking right
Speaker 1: when Trump took office in January, kept saying, you know,
Speaker 1: we all had a clock going of how long Elon
Speaker 1: would be interested in federal government play. It turns out
Speaker 1: it's you know, now again, I think it's worth pausing
Speaker 1: for a minute and realizing that part of why Elon
Speaker 1: is making such a big show of leaving is because
Speaker 1: it is one hundred. You know, it's whatever, the number is,
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty. It is yeah, that where a
Speaker 1: special government, you know, where he would need technically congressional approval,
Speaker 1: though this Congress has completely given up any authority, so
Speaker 1: they might give it to him. But I just think
Speaker 1: that there, you know, and and again, and there's so
Speaker 1: much reporting this weekend about this. So and I've talked
Speaker 1: to actually people who were, you know, talking about how
Speaker 1: they've put people in as deputy chief of staff and
Speaker 1: different federal agencies who are like recent college grads. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of people in these agencies
Speaker 1: that are just Elon holdovers, and maybe they're ideologically in
Speaker 1: lined with them, and maybe they're not.
Speaker 3: There is a degree to which you can't pretend that
Speaker 3: Doge hasn't become kind of an infection in the government.
Speaker 3: These people, it has been a class of people were
Speaker 3: attracted to work for Elon who are basically these little
Speaker 3: in cell government terrorists, and they're having fun still and
Speaker 3: a lot of them have figured out that there's not
Speaker 3: really a lot of adult supervision in the Trump administration
Speaker 3: right now. Even with you On gone, maybe the party's
Speaker 3: a little less wild every night, but at play in
Speaker 3: the government, they're still collecting our day in the government.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then of course there's palent here, which is
Speaker 1: collecting our data which the government as well.
Speaker 3: Which I want to say, and I know I know
Speaker 3: that like the weakest form of teasing the MAGI is
Speaker 3: what if Barack Obama did this? But I will tell you, Molly,
Speaker 3: if Barack Obama or Joe Biden had suggested that a
Speaker 3: single company that's a major donor to the president's owned
Speaker 3: by a guy like Peter Thiel, who's a major supporter
Speaker 3: of the president, collected all government data about every single
Speaker 3: American citizen to run it through their super secret AI system,
Speaker 3: Republicans would burn Washington to the ground and blow the
Speaker 3: ashes around with a fucking leaf blower. Yeah, it would be,
Speaker 3: they would go, absolutely say, and by the way, they
Speaker 3: would be right to do so, a right, they'd be
Speaker 3: right to do so.
Speaker 1: But Democrats would never dare or do something like that.
Speaker 3: No, of course not. They would go, wow, there's some
Speaker 3: civil liberties stuff behind this. Maybe we do not do this,
Speaker 3: but yeah, And and honestly, a lot of folks in
Speaker 3: MAGA are are look at the Pallenger thing going wait,
Speaker 3: what what us wait us to us?
Speaker 2: Two?
Speaker 3: What you use? I thought it was only the bad people.
Speaker 1: It's It's is honestly kind of amazing that there's so
Speaker 1: much that they're just there's no sense in which they
Speaker 1: believed any of the stuff they've been saying, right like,
Speaker 1: And the very few people who have really stood up,
Speaker 1: and there's very, very vanishingly few are the Libertarians, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, the the only people Rand Paul, Thomas Massey.
Speaker 1: I mean, these are not how.
Speaker 3: We find ourselves in agreement with Rand Paul more often
Speaker 3: than not these days.
Speaker 1: Because only because ramboll is the only person who's like,
Speaker 1: this is not okay.
Speaker 3: But you know, only and it trickles down everywhere. Mind.
Speaker 3: They the thing this morning in the Times about the
Speaker 3: Texas woman who is tracked through a series. There's a
Speaker 3: company called Flock. Flock. Nobody's ever heard of Flock, but
Speaker 3: they run a network of AI driven license plate reading
Speaker 3: cameras around the whole country, and Texas is now using Flock.
Speaker 3: These owned by these guys in Atlanta, Georgia. They're using
Speaker 3: Flock to track women who they suspect of driving out
Speaker 3: of Texas to get abortions in other states by monitoring
Speaker 3: their license plate cameras. In what world is the government's
Speaker 3: too big and needs to stay out of our business?
Speaker 3: Do you track women down by tracking their license plate
Speaker 3: across a network of ninety thousand cameras around the country.
Speaker 1: Insane. I mean that is insane. That is let me
Speaker 1: tell you how.
Speaker 3: And the flock gives these cameras basically to communities around
Speaker 3: the country so they can sell the data to other
Speaker 3: people too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, no, that's and that is not none of it.
Speaker 3: It is like that this intrusion. Pete Water had a
Speaker 3: great piece about this, like, none of this is conservative,
Speaker 3: none of this is republican, none of this is small government,
Speaker 3: none of this is the state has too much power. Now,
Speaker 3: it's like whatever daddy wants.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, yeah, no, I mean it's it's just so crazy.
Speaker 1: So let's just talk though for a minute about speaking
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump being in great shape and totally I
Speaker 1: want to talk about Donald Trump retweeting something.
Speaker 3: That oh my god, I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm going to read sort of a little
Speaker 1: bit here because I think it's it is so stupid
Speaker 1: that it should be just we should focus on a
Speaker 1: two seconds. So, I mean, there's a lot there was
Speaker 1: a lot of stupid shit. And by the way, a
Speaker 1: lot of members of the Trump administration lying on the
Speaker 1: Sunday shows, including the FDA Commissioner making up, you know,
Speaker 1: stuff about vaccines. We had Russ Vought lying about.
Speaker 3: They got Russ Loot out of his hole, though I
Speaker 3: was kind of amazed by that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know Russ Vought. We had
Speaker 1: him saying that he you know, he's still may impound funds.
Speaker 1: He said, we're not in love with the law. That
Speaker 1: was a great moment. He also said that Medicaid cuts
Speaker 1: will not lose coverage. People won't lose coverage. We know
Speaker 1: that it will be millions of people losing coverage. We
Speaker 1: had more Jony Earnst double downing, but the one I
Speaker 1: want to talk about is okay. So Donald Trump retweets
Speaker 1: something that says that basically that there's no Joe Biden.
Speaker 1: He was executed in twenty twenty, and their clones and doubles,
Speaker 1: robotic engineered soulness, mindless entries are what you see now.
Speaker 1: Philip Bump, who is a very straight down the middle,
Speaker 1: very better than even odds that Trump shared this dumb
Speaker 1: post because he didn't have his glasses on a like
Speaker 1: the photo not impossible. And now the White House Press
Speaker 1: Secretary will have to be like experts agree, it's quite
Speaker 1: possible cyborgs walk across among us, no matter what the
Speaker 1: fake news claims.
Speaker 3: The fact that they are claiming now that Joe Biden
Speaker 3: is dead and was replaced by an alien cyborg, clone.
Speaker 1: Robot whatever, I mean, we don't know that. I mean,
Speaker 1: Trump definitely retweeted it. But again, try he retweeted it.
Speaker 3: And here's the thing, Molly, this actually is a great
Speaker 3: example and what Bump says there about. You know, Levitt
Speaker 3: will go out and say the tweet speaks for itself
Speaker 3: or something to that efface, and she'll get very aggressive.
Speaker 3: And honestly, most reporters will just shrug and go, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: he's just being crazy late at night, right, But I
Speaker 3: think it deserves actually to be spoken about and looked
Speaker 3: at and reviewed for what it is. It's one more
Speaker 3: sign of his disconnection from reality. And it's also one
Speaker 3: more sign that Trump has always been conscious of throwing
Speaker 3: little bits of bait out to the weirdest edges of
Speaker 3: his coalition.
Speaker 1: And that feels there.
Speaker 3: And I mean, he's got to be worried because Dan
Speaker 3: Bongino is covering up all the Epstein stuff.
Speaker 1: Now wait, say more about that.
Speaker 3: Mauga's theory now is that cash Hotel, Dan Bongino and
Speaker 3: Pam Bondi are secretly redacting all the Epstein stuff because
Speaker 3: the deep state got to them.
Speaker 1: That is really good. I have to say, it's so good.
Speaker 1: That's a great story and so good. And you know,
Speaker 1: the reality is you cannot once you get down the
Speaker 1: rabbit hole here, like in.
Speaker 3: Moh No, there's no escaping once once you start thinking
Speaker 3: that there's a global lizard overlord conspiracy, you know, as
Speaker 3: Hunter S. Thompson said, you know about about drugs, It's like,
Speaker 3: you know, once you've gotta stash that big that the
Speaker 3: temptation just go all in. I'm mangling the quote a
Speaker 3: little bit, right, but it really is, you know, but
Speaker 3: I think I think sometimes you can go back. There
Speaker 3: have been times, like during the peak of the QAnon stuff,
Speaker 3: when Trump was in a lot of political trouble, right,
Speaker 3: he would throw out little things, you know, like I'm
Speaker 3: the storm and all that shit, right right, And I
Speaker 3: don't know that we can just dismiss this as a
Speaker 3: as a a click error on Trump's part, because there
Speaker 3: is a history of.
Speaker 1: Him there is appealing to the cuckoo of his face. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do want to also point out that I think
Speaker 1: that's a really good point. I do think Trump is
Speaker 1: again the Elon dislodgment is instability. Right, Whether or not
Speaker 1: he's really gone whatever, who knows what to believe, but
Speaker 1: there is a certain amount of instability now, I think.
Speaker 3: I think the sign that it's gone, that Elon's lost
Speaker 3: all of his political power is a weird small sign.
Speaker 3: There was a guy named Jared Isaacman, and I will
Speaker 3: just say this, in the realm of the Trump administration,
Speaker 3: Jared Isaacman actually knew what he was going to be doing,
Speaker 3: like actually had knowledge of space roid so he was
Speaker 3: gonna be the head of NASA. But he was a
Speaker 3: friend of Elon's. And so over the weekend Trump killed
Speaker 3: Isaacman's appointment. He had about seventy five or eighty votes
Speaker 3: in the Senate. He was really not a controversial guy.
Speaker 3: But this is Susie Wiles, as I like to say,
Speaker 3: settling all family business. She's crying up Elon. She's wanted
Speaker 3: to kill elonof from the very beginning, right right right.
Speaker 1: And by the way, the excuse they used is a
Speaker 1: great one.
Speaker 3: No, I actually hadn't heard the excuse yet.
Speaker 1: That he donated to Democrats, and that's why they're cutting
Speaker 1: him loose.
Speaker 3: Trump the guy that gave Hillary Clinton over three hundred
Speaker 3: thousand dollars when she's running for US Senate.
Speaker 1: That guy, that guy said And by the way, then
Speaker 1: the reporting said, well, but the guy had told Trump
Speaker 1: that he had donated to Democrats. But Trump didn't care.
Speaker 3: Again, so had Steven Schwartzman and Mark Zuckerberg and Tim
Speaker 3: Cook and Elon Musk and everybody else. No, I do
Speaker 3: that that's not why they fired it. They fired because
Speaker 3: they wouldn't get rid of anybody with an Elon power
Speaker 3: center that Susie found threatening.
Speaker 1: I do think that Trump will continue to torture Zuckerberg
Speaker 1: and actually, oh yeah, yeah, and there is no world
Speaker 1: in which Trump is going to forgive zuck I think
Speaker 1: that's fair. Right.
Speaker 3: No, never, Look, he's at war with Tim Cook, who's
Speaker 3: like the least offensive of the tech guys, that's right,
Speaker 3: and just been very very neutral about handling Trump and
Speaker 3: very smart about it. But he's now like Apple has
Speaker 3: to pay twenty five percent.
Speaker 1: In the end, Really is the author of this thesis?
Speaker 1: How good do you feel about the fact that it
Speaker 1: really is? Is everything? Trump touches us.
Speaker 3: Look like every day that I wish that people believe
Speaker 3: the part two of.
Speaker 1: It, which is.
Speaker 3: Because I'm the one who can do you know this,
Speaker 3: like the abusive boyfriend, things like I can cure him,
Speaker 3: I can change him, Yeah, can you Yeah? That's that
Speaker 3: that is That is somebody in abusive relationships. People here,
Speaker 3: you know that. People, everybody knows a friend who's in
Speaker 3: an abusive relationship or a bad relationship. It's like, I
Speaker 3: can change him. It's my fault. No, you can't. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And they never realize it. And it's like the illusion
Speaker 3: and seduction of power is so meaningfully overwhelming to these people.
Speaker 3: And a lot of the tech people are now using
Speaker 3: the sort of excuse frame of well, I have to
Speaker 3: do what's best for my shareholders, and if I just
Speaker 3: be nice to him, he'll find somebody else to be
Speaker 3: pissed off that eventually.
Speaker 1: I don't riot, I don't definitely not.
Speaker 3: It never works that way with Trump. It has never.
Speaker 3: It has never been that way with Trump. Once you
Speaker 3: humiliate yourself to him, he hates you more.
Speaker 1: It is interesting, though, that it doesn't work. I had
Speaker 1: been really worried about Elon's seemingly endless financial You know,
Speaker 1: I had been worried about right Elon Musk piggybank forever
Speaker 1: the richest man in the world. That seemed like a
Speaker 1: very you know, a sort of disaster scenario. But it
Speaker 1: seems like he's just not going to give any more money.
Speaker 3: There have been two separate interviews that I've seen, there
Speaker 3: may be more, the two where he has basically said,
Speaker 3: I've spent what I'm going to spend, I've done what
Speaker 3: I'm going to do. I think he is probably extremely
Speaker 3: bitter right now. If you can't spend three hundred and
Speaker 3: fifty million dollars and keep Donald Trump on your side,
Speaker 3: there aren't many people that can have that kind of
Speaker 3: liquid cash in the universe, right And so if that's
Speaker 3: not enough to keep Trump as an ally, what what
Speaker 3: would be?
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? I mean, what do
Speaker 1: you think about is he gone? Will he no longer donate?
Speaker 1: And also, I mean, like, do you feel better about
Speaker 1: that now? I mean, he certainly seems like he's not.
Speaker 3: There were a lot of major Democratic donors that I've
Speaker 3: sat with over the last year, well six months, let's
Speaker 3: call it just since the election, who are like, no
Speaker 3: matter what, we do. We can't rival Elon. He's gonna
Speaker 3: go nucas everywhere. And now if I put ten million
Speaker 3: dollars into this, he'll put twenty or fifty or one hundred.
Speaker 3: And I think Elon is off the board now in
Speaker 3: a meaningful way. And that meaningful way is this understanding
Speaker 3: that Tesla is a doomed brand, right fucked? Tesla is
Speaker 3: fa fucked?
Speaker 1: Right? Well, they were down seventy one percent in the
Speaker 1: last call, which seems like a lot to me if
Speaker 1: I'm not a mask. Yeah, it's a real number, seventy
Speaker 1: one per And the.
Speaker 3: Way the way I got banned from Twitter was basically
Speaker 3: outlining that story. They reacted to the head line. But
Speaker 3: what I said was if you kill their stock price,
Speaker 3: Elon can't play these games anymore. Well, their stock prices
Speaker 3: and the shitter. It's up a little bit now that
Speaker 3: he's out of the White House, but he has this
Speaker 3: interlocking set of companies he has to maintain. Tesla has
Speaker 3: to do well so he can fund SpaceX. SpaceX has
Speaker 3: to do well so he can expand Starlink, and which
Speaker 3: is a which is actually his best business in a
Speaker 3: lot of ways, non controversial, not politically facing, works great.
Speaker 3: You know, it's a good product, whereas Tesla's product is
Speaker 3: old and stale and now has a bad brand. SpaceX.
Speaker 3: As much as I want it to work out, I
Speaker 3: think we need good rockets. It hasn't been a straight
Speaker 3: line from A to B to get them into into
Speaker 3: orbit right now. And if she focuses his admittedly formidable
Speaker 3: intellect on some of these things for a year or
Speaker 3: two years, he might turn back into the guy, the
Speaker 3: lovable elon, the nerd who could match things. He got
Speaker 3: addicted to politics.
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't I actually think that that
Speaker 1: chip has sailed. I think they may have. Even if
Speaker 1: he can, in fact pretend to be that person, I
Speaker 1: don't think it matters. I think that he killed the
Speaker 1: poorest children in the world. Yeah, I believe me. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I had somebody from Marco World reach out to
Speaker 3: me today because I tweeted about the death. I was like,
Speaker 3: proud of yourself, Marco, what's a Marco guy? Reached out
Speaker 3: and he goes, how dare you take that tone with him?
Speaker 3: He didn't do that? Did that? I'm like, no, he's
Speaker 3: pretty good with it though he pulled the trigger.
Speaker 1: But I'm curious, like how do you defend that.
Speaker 3: You can't defend it. Look, we we're gonna kill three
Speaker 3: hundred thousand people this year alone, from what the numbers
Speaker 3: that I've seen. Three hundred thousand people, Molly are going
Speaker 3: to die because of food and the food that it's
Speaker 3: going into those countries now, on those bags of rice
Speaker 3: and lintels and.
Speaker 1: Soybas it says Russia.
Speaker 3: You know it's in Mandarin. And you've given up not
Speaker 3: only the moral high ground, but we've given up. We've
Speaker 3: given up political power in those places where the AID
Speaker 3: made a difference. We've given up moral power. And Ewon
Speaker 3: did it because he was pissed off because he thought
Speaker 3: USAID helped end a part time which it did. Oh well.
Speaker 1: Antonia Hilton is the co host of the Weekend on
Speaker 1: AMASNBC and a producer of the new NBC News digital
Speaker 1: doc Children's Pastor. Welcome to Fast Politics, Antonio.
Speaker 4: Hilton, thanks for having me, Mollie.
Speaker 1: Delighted to have you so talk to us about this documentary.
Speaker 1: How you got here, why you decided to do it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we have been working on this for six months, Mollie.
Speaker 4: This is a story about an influential pastor who's now
Speaker 4: based in Missouri, but who has traveled from state to
Speaker 4: state in his career, and as he's moved around, he
Speaker 4: has been dogged by, but never really held accountable for
Speaker 4: decades worth of allegations, mostly from women, although NBC News
Speaker 4: has spoken to men as well, and the women alleged
Speaker 4: that he raped and sexually abused them as children as
Speaker 4: part of an influential and very popular children's ministry that
Speaker 4: he and his wife, Becky Campbell formed in the eighties.
Speaker 1: And the through.
Speaker 4: Line of this or the purpose of telling this story
Speaker 4: now is, first, this man is still out there. Pastor
Speaker 4: Joe Campbell is part of you remember infamous, disgraced televangelist
Speaker 4: Jim Baker.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, very wow.
Speaker 4: So he is a member of Jim Baker's televangelist ministry
Speaker 4: in Missouri and he still runs a camp for children
Speaker 4: in the Ozarks to this day.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 4: And so the women that we've spoken to, they have
Speaker 4: been motivated over the decades to continue to try to
Speaker 4: tell their stories to friends, to family, clergy members, to
Speaker 4: law enforcement, often hitting one road block or you know,
Speaker 4: person who wanted to discredit or not believe them after another,
Speaker 4: but their real motivation has been the fear that there
Speaker 4: are more people out there like them who have potentially
Speaker 4: been harmed by this person. And for us at NBC
Speaker 4: and MSNBC, this is kind of exactly the sort of
Speaker 4: impact and community based reporting that we try to do,
Speaker 4: you know, whenever you cover a major religious organization. He
Speaker 4: was a part of the Assemblies of God, which is
Speaker 4: the largest Pentecostal denomination, incredibly influential denomination here in the US.
Speaker 4: You know, there are the political elements, of course, the power,
Speaker 4: the gender dynamics to it, but there's also simply just
Speaker 4: the opportunity as reporters to do the right thing and
Speaker 4: to give a platform a voice to people who have
Speaker 4: been harmed by or potentially armed by very powerful people
Speaker 4: for quite a long time, and to bring them back
Speaker 4: into the frame, to make the people the real human
Speaker 4: beings at the center of the story kind of you know,
Speaker 4: off didn't become statistics or just sort of the avatars
Speaker 4: of our day to day political conversations. Make them the
Speaker 4: heart of something. And so that's what this investigation for
Speaker 4: our team was really about. And I was really honored
Speaker 4: to get to do this with my good friend and
Speaker 4: senior investigative reporter here, Mike Kick, Simba, Roberto Daza, and
Speaker 4: so many others in this building. You know, it's the
Speaker 4: kind of work, Molly that just reminds me why I
Speaker 4: grew up wanting to do this in the first place
Speaker 4: for so long, and why priests like this are so special.
Speaker 1: So what has happened since the movie? Like I mean,
Speaker 1: is there a chance for accountability here?
Speaker 4: I think there's a chance for accountability here. NBC News
Speaker 4: has made exhaustive and extensive efforts to reach Pastor Joe Campbell,
Speaker 4: to reach his wife Becky, and to reach Jim Baker,
Speaker 4: the televangelist with whom he works now. We called him,
Speaker 4: texted him and he had his read receipts on we emailed.
Speaker 4: Then I made in person visits to the campgrounds this
Speaker 4: is the camp that he's still runs for kids in
Speaker 4: the Ozarks in Missouri, and then to the compound the
Speaker 4: Jim Baker runs where the Campbell's often live. I spoke
Speaker 4: to staff at that site, I handed hand to hand
Speaker 4: delivered a letter with the allegations with an invitation to talk,
Speaker 4: to sit down, to record an interview, or even just
Speaker 4: discuss over the phone. And I did the same when
Speaker 4: I visited the campsite. I left a note for the
Speaker 4: family there. We have never, at least as of this recording,
Speaker 4: we have not heard from Pastor Joe Campbell, from any
Speaker 4: members of his family, or from Jim Baker's ministry to
Speaker 4: respond to any of these allegations at all. Molly, I've
Speaker 4: been on air all week telling our viewers if you
Speaker 4: have a story about Pastor Joe Campbell, if you have
Speaker 4: feedback for us, a detail you think we're missing, reach
Speaker 4: out because we're going to continue reporting this story out.
Speaker 4: We know that law enforcement and in states like Oklahoma and
Speaker 4: Missouri where Pastor Campbell operated, that there are law enforcement
Speaker 4: that are already in some cases aware of him or
Speaker 4: are certainly now aware of our So there's opportunity there,
Speaker 4: But there's also the potential for you know, like I said,
Speaker 4: he's running a camp for kids exists in the ozarks,
Speaker 4: So we want to hear from people. If you have
Speaker 4: a child who has attended that camp and you need
Speaker 4: to speak to us, the door is very open, the dms,
Speaker 4: the emails are open, and that's where I think the
Speaker 4: impact comes from.
Speaker 1: But he's still there. Yeah, yeah, how does that work?
Speaker 1: I mean, why are people sending their kids there.
Speaker 4: You know, that's one of the most interesting challenges or
Speaker 4: questions I guess as reporters that you kind of meditate
Speaker 4: on when you're working on a project like this. Right,
Speaker 4: everyone wants to think, like, if I heard this powerful
Speaker 4: person that I had befriended or trusted as my pastor,
Speaker 4: if I heard they even just the rumor that they
Speaker 4: may be harmed a child in this way, most people
Speaker 4: would say, I like to think I would call the police,
Speaker 4: I'd run the other direction, I'd take my kids out,
Speaker 4: or at.
Speaker 1: The very least, I wouldn't send my kids there.
Speaker 4: Right, That's the question, certainly the question that at times
Speaker 4: we've asked people through the course of our reporting. But
Speaker 4: this pastor, Joe Campbell, was incredibly charismatic, beloved by people
Speaker 4: in the ministries that he's been a part of, and
Speaker 4: you know, in many cases, what we found, really a
Speaker 4: pattern that emerged in our reporting was that so many
Speaker 4: of the they're now women, but when they were just
Speaker 4: young girls that he's alleged to have done all this too.
Speaker 4: They came from very similar backgrounds and families isolated as
Speaker 4: children often maybe parent or parents missing from the home,
Speaker 4: dealing with a lot of poverty in states like Oklahoma
Speaker 4: or Missouri and depending on the resources of the church,
Speaker 4: which is so common throughout the United States, by the way,
Speaker 4: across all denominations, but certainly Pentecostal and Evangelical denominations playing
Speaker 4: these immense cultural and political roles in their local communities,
Speaker 4: distributing aid and food, being a place where kids can
Speaker 4: consistently come after school to get a warm meal and
Speaker 4: to hang out with people who are supposed to protect
Speaker 4: and guide them. And so kids who up in that
Speaker 4: position where they're dependent on this ministry, it makes it
Speaker 4: really challenging from what they've told us to then come
Speaker 4: forward and tell people, oh, the man you love, the
Speaker 4: man you depend on sometimes for events, support, trips out
Speaker 4: of states, opportunities, he's been harming me in this way.
Speaker 4: And for the women that did try to Carrie Jackson
Speaker 4: is one. She alleges that he raped and sexually abused
Speaker 4: her from the ages of nine to twelve. When she
Speaker 4: came forward, she was brought into a hearing run by
Speaker 4: a regional office of the Assemblies of God and questioned
Speaker 4: aggressively by grown men astors in the church. At times,
Speaker 4: Joe Campbell himself present watching her getting interrogated, asked to
Speaker 4: do things like describe his naked body. This is a child,
Speaker 4: and so there's this sort of gut reaction to discredit
Speaker 4: children women's voices often. And two, it appears from the reporting,
Speaker 4: maintain the status quo, sort of continue to believe what
Speaker 4: you might want to believe about the person that has
Speaker 4: built your community up and who so many depend on.
Speaker 4: And even after, you know, shortly after Carrie Jackson's allegations,
Speaker 4: then another woman named Fadrir Creed, or a girl named
Speaker 4: Fader Creed, accuses him. She's brought in essentially as a
Speaker 4: foster child into his family in Missouri, and within a
Speaker 4: month of her living there, she alleges he began to
Speaker 4: sexually abuse her. There was so much evidence that her
Speaker 4: case moved to trial, but because she was a child
Speaker 4: and struggled to deal with the pressure, the trauma, and
Speaker 4: the criticism from her community and her congregants, she ended
Speaker 4: up not being able to testify and charges were dropped.
Speaker 1: But you know, you just you see.
Speaker 4: Time time again how people want to not feel uncomfortable
Speaker 4: and not some of the facts in front of them
Speaker 4: in order to keep their community, their ministry and maybe
Speaker 4: even their psyche intact.
Speaker 1: It sounds as if there's a certain amount of intimidation
Speaker 1: going on. As that fair.
Speaker 4: I think absolutely the women we've spoken to would tell
Speaker 4: you that that's the case. Phaedr. Creed, the woman who
Speaker 4: he allegedly abused in Missouri, talks about how people would
Speaker 4: follow her in grocery stores, come to her home harassment.
Speaker 1: She wanted it.
Speaker 4: She was a harlot essentially, and then it actually persisted
Speaker 4: for years even after charges were dismissed, and you know,
Speaker 4: she tried to move on with her life and you
Speaker 4: know certainly wasn't speaking about it regularly. You know, she
Speaker 4: was trying to build her own life and family. She
Speaker 4: would still see people who would criticize and attack her,
Speaker 4: and so I think they would. They would definitely agree
Speaker 4: with you on that, Molly, and I think it tells
Speaker 4: you so much too. I think just about the kind
Speaker 4: of culture around power, gender and politics in this country
Speaker 4: that it takes like an entire army of women to
Speaker 4: come forward with the same patterns and clues photographs. I mean, Carrie,
Speaker 4: the woman I mentioned in Tulsa, Oklahoma, has childhood diary
Speaker 4: entries recounting her memory the contemporaneous notes, photographs of Joe
Speaker 4: and his wife and family, and the need to have
Speaker 4: like this tsunami of evidence to even have a chance
Speaker 4: at being believed. Yeah, it's astounding, but I think there's
Speaker 4: a reason that pattern repeats in our country, whether you're
Speaker 4: talking about these religious cases of abuse like this one,
Speaker 4: or you're talking about like the Diddy trial, which we're
Speaker 4: all watching unfold.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Diddy trial is a great example of that,
Speaker 1: because that is a situation too where the woman who
Speaker 1: is testifying talk to us about that, because that's a
Speaker 1: similar scenario.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I have been following my friends here at NBCNMSNBC all
Speaker 4: there reporting from the courtroom, and I think there's sort
Speaker 4: of two sides of this story that have emerged. And
Speaker 4: I think in a lot of cases, the media, and
Speaker 4: I mean that very broadly, like news organizations, gossip organizations,
Speaker 4: social media sites like Instagram, accounts like the Shade Room,
Speaker 4: so big picture media. There's a lot of attention on
Speaker 4: the salacious details, the drugs that were used, the lubricants
Speaker 4: and baby oils, the freak offs, and I don't see
Speaker 4: a lot of people very publicly at least engaging in
Speaker 4: what I think the real story is, which is a
Speaker 4: story about race, power and gender, about how hard it
Speaker 4: is when someone is an icon in a specific community
Speaker 4: who has achieved things many people in that community thought
Speaker 4: were simply impossible. I mean, this is sort of a
Speaker 4: cosbisque story, right, where this person has done the impossible,
Speaker 4: innovated in this in his field, and created careers and
Speaker 4: lives for so many people, or just simply bands have
Speaker 4: a certain emotional attachment to them and their music. And
Speaker 4: then this alternative story and video, right because of the
Speaker 4: infamous twenty sixteen hotel video we've now all seen of
Speaker 4: how did he was physically abusing Cassie at that time,
Speaker 4: It's hard for people to make sense of that, and
Speaker 4: so it seems like they then want to focus instead
Speaker 4: of having the conversation about what it says about all
Speaker 4: of us that we allowed someone like this to perhaps
Speaker 4: operate in our myths, that we celebrated, that we gave
Speaker 4: them money, that we elevated them, that they had access
Speaker 4: to people in the cultural and political spheres all over
Speaker 4: our country and world, instead of kind of interrogating what
Speaker 4: that says about all of us, that instead we want
Speaker 4: to focus on the grimiest and most salacious parts of
Speaker 4: the story, and you see the same patterns of people saying, well, Cassie,
Speaker 4: it was a techar relationship, she must have liked it.
Speaker 4: Why did she stick around the same kinds of questions
Speaker 4: that the women I spoke to in communities in Oklahoma
Speaker 4: and Missouri and now in Tennessee they were asked the
Speaker 4: same questions back in the seventies, eighties and beyond that
Speaker 4: now are being asked of Cassie. And there's something so
Speaker 4: disturbing to me about that we repeat the same mistakes,
Speaker 4: we have the same conversations over again, and then perhaps
Speaker 4: we don't learn anything new.
Speaker 1: I mean, I also just wonder, like the whole theory
Speaker 1: of the case with Ditty, from what I understand and again,
Speaker 1: is just that somehow their relationship negates these the volatile
Speaker 1: nature of their relationship, somehow undermines these allegations, which in
Speaker 1: my mind is just a non starter. Right, you can
Speaker 1: have crazy relationships and still do bad stuff. Like the
Speaker 1: idea that one thing can be true ergo nothing else
Speaker 1: is true seems wild to me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I spent a lot of time talking
Speaker 4: to mental health practitioners and doctors as part of another
Speaker 4: side of my reporting, which I have covered a lot
Speaker 4: of the history of mental health treatment in the US,
Speaker 4: and basically every expert in that field describes cases like
Speaker 4: Cassie's is actually really familiar to them, like textbook kind
Speaker 4: of familiar, where you know, there's a grooming process, someone
Speaker 4: testing boundaries, and there is the confusion about like love
Speaker 4: and dependence and codependence. And I think people think once
Speaker 4: she says something like well I loved him that, then
Speaker 4: that means she totally signed up for and understood, you know,
Speaker 4: what this relationship was, and therefore you know she needs
Speaker 4: to be held accountable for that. You know, very often
Speaker 4: victims of all kinds of abuse actually have a lot
Speaker 4: of love and affection and empathy and attachment to the
Speaker 4: people who've inflicted and enacted that upon them. It's not abnormal,
Speaker 4: that's not the outlier. That is the norm. And so
Speaker 4: I know that there are a lot of journalists hoping
Speaker 4: because the other dimension of this case, right is a
Speaker 4: lot of people saying, well, like, maybe this is just
Speaker 4: domestic violence and there's not the whole reco case that
Speaker 4: the federal government is supposed to be making here right now.
Speaker 1: Well, I think.
Speaker 4: Key to that to a lot of people would be, well,
Speaker 4: you're gonna have to bring in experts who make that
Speaker 4: make all of this make sense for people. You know,
Speaker 4: I don't think the average person can be expected to
Speaker 4: understand the way that PTSG and trauma function. And that's okay,
Speaker 4: So how do you demonstrate that? How do you make
Speaker 4: sure people are having responsible conversations about that? And then
Speaker 4: the question for us is like, well, how do we
Speaker 4: cover it and what kinds of voices do we bring
Speaker 4: on air so that it's not oh, again, all the
Speaker 4: attention on there was a freak off that lasted four days.
Speaker 4: I've heard that a million times this week.
Speaker 1: Right, are you surprised at how much me too has
Speaker 1: sort of we went from no me too to you
Speaker 1: know a lot of looking at men's behavior. There's been
Speaker 1: so much backlash to backlash to backlash, and now we're
Speaker 1: in another cycle of backlash where if you loved the person,
Speaker 1: they couldn't have done anything bad to you, which is like,
Speaker 1: we all know that's insane. So are you surprised at
Speaker 1: how much the culture has sort of dictated what is
Speaker 1: a crime and what is not a crime. Because eighteen
Speaker 1: months ago you pinched someone's butt, and you could lose
Speaker 1: your job. And now we have people who are running
Speaker 1: orgies and god knows what else being said that it's
Speaker 1: okay because they loved the person, right.
Speaker 4: I wish I could tell you, Molly that I'm that
Speaker 4: I'm surprised, but I remember, so, you know, a lot
Speaker 4: of my job at MSNBC the last three to five
Speaker 4: years has been covering the culture war in schools, book banning,
Speaker 4: the anti CRT movement anti and I remember while covering
Speaker 4: the George Floyd protests, like literally leaving protests in downtown
Speaker 4: Brooklyn and calling my mom and talking to her. And
Speaker 4: my mom is a lawyer and a professor, and she's
Speaker 4: the daughter of two civil rights activists, and I remember
Speaker 4: her saying to me, there will be a backlash to this.
Speaker 4: You know, this moment where you know people are asking
Speaker 4: these questions and they're you know, buying black authors books and.
Speaker 1: They're right right elevating.
Speaker 4: You just know there's going to be a moment where
Speaker 4: they get real tired of doing that and the pendulum
Speaker 4: swing back in the other direction. I remember being, oh yeah,
Speaker 4: and she was like that because that's what history tells us,
Speaker 4: so now we're living it, and that applies to everything
Speaker 4: from like the almost four hundred books banned from the
Speaker 4: Naval Academy a couple to the conversation the transpiring now
Speaker 4: around the Diddy trial. I see all of that as connected,
Speaker 4: and so in some ways it's not a surprise at all.
Speaker 4: But I do sometimes think that all of us, like
Speaker 4: we get overwhelmed and we forget to connect the dots
Speaker 4: for people about like where we are in the stage
Speaker 4: of the backlash and what specifically some of these like
Speaker 4: movements and counter movements are truly about, and using plain
Speaker 4: language to really describe it. I like constantly like reevaluate
Speaker 4: for myself, like before I'm doing a ninety second hit
Speaker 4: on a MSNBC or I'm working on a long term
Speaker 4: investigation like this one with a ton of colleagues on
Speaker 4: this specific you know pastor in this church. How do
Speaker 4: I use my language really careful and effectively. How do
Speaker 4: I think about my responsibility to the people that I'm
Speaker 4: reporting on, And how do I use every opportunity every
Speaker 4: new story I do to obviously tell the truest and
Speaker 4: most direct and effective story I can, but also use
Speaker 4: it in a way to like repair relationships and bring
Speaker 4: more clarity to the communities that I visit and I
Speaker 4: drop into. I think too often, like a lot of
Speaker 4: that just kind of falls to the side and the
Speaker 4: daily like rush and panic and hair on fire stuff.
Speaker 4: But like, I really try to catch myself to be
Speaker 4: better about that. And for me, it really began with
Speaker 4: that phone call with my mom when I was saving
Speaker 4: a George Floyd postest, which she was like, you're like,
Speaker 4: right now, you're on you think you're like a hot moment,
Speaker 4: but you're actually like part of a very long timeline here,
Speaker 4: and keep track of where you are and make sense
Speaker 4: of that for the people you're talking to too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that is the big question, is
Speaker 1: sort of how do we protect vulnerable people? Right because
Speaker 1: for us whatever, But for these women and for these victims,
Speaker 1: that's another story. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm
Speaker 1: such a fan of yours.
Speaker 4: Interviewers, Molly, thank you for having me really great.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: No, no moment.
Speaker 1: Fuck Rick Wilson. Can we talk about your moment of
Speaker 1: fuck ray?
Speaker 3: I think we could talk about my moment of fuckery.
Speaker 3: My moment of fuckery was the reaction on Sunday morning
Speaker 3: by a lot of magas to this absolutely fucking genius,
Speaker 3: top secret, brilliant plan that Ukraine pulled off where they
Speaker 3: shipped attack drones all over Russia hidden in semi trucks
Speaker 3: and took out about forty percent of Russia's air force
Speaker 3: today bomber air force, the bombers that were striking Ukraine
Speaker 3: every single night and killing civilians. And the reaction by
Speaker 3: MAGA was, how dare they not inform Donald Trump in advance?
Speaker 3: How dare they escalate this conflict like this? I'm like,
Speaker 3: fuck off. Two and a half years of Russia Nuki
Speaker 3: are not nuking but but bombing the shit out of
Speaker 3: civilian targets in Ukraine, and the Ukrainians strike back with
Speaker 3: this brilliant plan. It took them a year and a
Speaker 3: half to hatch it. Nobody in trumperl can keep a
Speaker 3: secret for an hour and a half, much less a
Speaker 3: year and a half. So I'm glad they didn't tell
Speaker 3: Trump's people. But the modern reaction to it has been
Speaker 3: amazing to me. It's like, oh, I'm sorry, poor Russia,
Speaker 3: They're the victim in this. Poor Donald Trump's the victim
Speaker 3: in it.
Speaker 1: Uh sure, thank you, Rick Wilson.
Speaker 3: As always, I will talk to you again. Soon.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best
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