1 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Every bit of evidence has been gathered, what on the 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: off chance that it has not, and that could be 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: the one piece that seals the fate of the case. 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 2: Either way, the big stunner of this case is that 5 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 2: these weren't people that necessarily even interface, not even once. 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: This is the Idaho Massacre, a production of KAT Studios 7 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio, Season two, Episode twelve, Listener Questions. I'm Courtney Armstrong, 8 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: a producer at KAT Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Gabe Castillo, 9 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 1: who you'll hear reading the questions. We wanted to take 10 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: this opportunity to answer some of the listener questions that 11 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: have come in over the course of the season, and 12 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: also to have a couple of listeners who were able 13 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: to make the time on the show so we can 14 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: speak with them. We're starting it off. 15 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 3: With page from Hobooken. 16 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: First, Stephanie high paid. 17 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 4: Hi. So my question is why you think the nine 18 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 4: one one call hasn't been released yet. 19 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: There can be a multitude of things at play, for example, 20 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: and Stephanie and I were talking about just this very 21 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: thing recently. And in another case we covered, which is 22 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: another high profile mass murder, the Pike did Masaker, which 23 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: is our other podcast. The nine one one call was 24 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: indeed released well before trial, well before the accused were known, 25 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: so that's something that can happen in this case. Obviously, 26 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: the nine on one call has not been released. There 27 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: have been articles people quoting that the prosecution will release 28 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: it quote when it's time, which means we may need 29 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: to wait until the actual trial to hear the nine 30 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: on one call. 31 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 2: Which is also interesting because I think this particular gular call, 32 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: maybe unlike other calls from other cases, does speak a 33 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 2: lot to the circumstances of how the bodies were found 34 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: and discovered. You know, there's been a couple of very 35 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 2: big questions about this timeline. One exactly who discovered the bodies. 36 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: We know that the bodies were discovered hours later, and 37 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: who that person was. All we know it to be 38 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: is a friend of Ethan's. From my understanding, I would 39 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: imagine if we hear their voice on the nine to 40 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 2: one one call, that would no longer be anonymous. And 41 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 2: they've been very tight lipped about releasing the information of 42 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: the nine one one call and also the surrounding roommates, right, 43 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 2: you could imagine that it must have been Mayhem when 44 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: they make this grizzly discovery. We've heard nine one one calls, 45 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 2: then there's nothing more harrowing or horrifying than hearing that 46 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 2: guttural sound. But we don't know. 47 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, And just to add to that, within the cloud 48 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: of sort of confusion that Stephanie was speaking about, should 49 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: we believe and there's no reason not to. The timeline 50 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 1: of the murders, which places that happening between approximately four 51 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: am and four twenty am. The nine to one one 52 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: call was not placed until just a few moments before noon, 53 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: so that's eight hours later. And as Stephanie said, it's 54 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: not clear precisely who necessarily made the call, but we 55 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: know the call came from one of the surviving roommate's 56 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: cell phones, but it was not them who was initially 57 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: making connection with nine one one. It was initially reported 58 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: as an unconscious person or person's which seemed ought for 59 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: what was ultimately found. And it turns out that that 60 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: was actually the categorization that that nine one one call 61 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: center used to let police know this is in the 62 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: realm of someone unconscious versus say a fire or something else. 63 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 3: So it was a nine one one designation. 64 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: Which is such a really interesting point and page. It's 65 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 2: such a good question because it's such an unknowable thing, right, 66 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: But that particular nine to one one call would answer 67 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,119 Speaker 2: so many questions. It would answer the who, the how, 68 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,119 Speaker 2: the state of affairs at that time. 69 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,119 Speaker 3: Anything else you want to say, ask or wonder about. 70 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 4: There was speculation that the fraternity across the street, the 71 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 4: two roommates went there and had some of the guys 72 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 4: go around the house to make sure that no one 73 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 4: was there, which I think might be another thing, Like 74 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 4: I think there was a lot of foot traffic in 75 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 4: the house before they called the police. 76 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: That's really interesting. 77 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: I have seen that as well, and I think it's 78 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: another thing that will come to bear. One thing that's 79 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: been reported is that there will quote multiple voices on 80 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: the nine one one call. So who exactly all of 81 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: those voices are we don't yet know, but soon to 82 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: find out. 83 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for coming on, of course, have 84 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 2: a good night, guys, Bye bye. 85 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 5: In a previous episode, it was mentioned that one of 86 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 5: the journalists had gone down to Moscow, Idaho, and noted 87 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 5: that in and around the area they noticed a lot 88 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 5: of ring cameras in the neighborhood and from what we 89 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 5: know there has been footage that was released from a 90 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 5: ring camera, So my question is, do you think police 91 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 5: have a lot more information than what has been released? 92 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 5: Is this why we have yet to see the first 93 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 5: day of trial? 94 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: Multilayered question, Do I think there's more we haven't seen? 95 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: I would bet any amount of money in the world 96 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,559 Speaker 1: that there is. Do I bet that investigators on every 97 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: level canvassed the neighborhood and procured every piece of evidence 98 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: possible at the time. Absolutely, I do. Is that part 99 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: of the delay and trial? I mean, it's interesting and 100 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: I don't have this stat at the tip of my tongue, 101 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: but I know we have to it before the enormity 102 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: of digital and other evidence that has been gathered that 103 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: has to be gone through by the prosecution, by investigators, 104 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: and then when hands it over by the defense as well. 105 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,799 Speaker 1: So I think that's part of it. Also, of course, 106 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: being a death penalty case that, as we've discussed, you know, 107 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: exacerbates a timeline because there's so many things that need 108 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: to be done correctly. But my knee jerk too, is 109 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: there more evidence from ring cameras we don't know about? 110 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 3: Absolutely? 111 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 2: I would really really hope so, because so much of 112 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 2: the evidence that we've been unpacking and has been set 113 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 2: into the public or the media, you know, really has 114 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: some circumstantial sides to it. So I would have to 115 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: imagine that there is a larger footprint from a technology 116 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 2: standpoint that frankly, we're just not aware of. It's amazing 117 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 2: that you can get away with any crime in today's 118 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 2: day and age, with the level of cameras and cell 119 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 2: phones and things that are tracking us real time. It's 120 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: actually pretty astounding that there was such a blind spot 121 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: if in fact there was, so I would assume that 122 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 2: we don't know this. But on the other side of that, 123 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 2: we have interviewed defense attorneys that would say, look, if 124 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 2: there was a ton of great information, they would be 125 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: yelling that from the rooftops and that would be front 126 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: page news, and we would be unpacking the fact that 127 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: there's a ring camera that has footage of someone else 128 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: other than the accused, Brian Coburger, walking into this murder house. 129 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: If that was the case, I think we would really 130 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: know about it. So, on the one hand, I completely 131 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 2: agree with you, Courtney, and on the other no, no, 132 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 2: some of this feels like a little bit of a 133 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: house of cards. 134 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: That's a fair point because now that you say that, 135 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: thinking about the fact that even the identification of the 136 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: car took three times for the FBI, and this is 137 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: no dig on them, but it took three times to 138 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: publicly get it correct what the carr was, assuming, of course, 139 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: the accused is whose car that we should. 140 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 3: Be looking for. 141 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 2: And by the way, we don't even have an actual 142 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: idea of the person driving that car. So yes, he 143 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 2: was driving a white Lantra, and yes it was in 144 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: and around the area, and yes that is wildly suspicious, 145 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: no question. But where's the visual of him actually behind 146 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: the wheel? I have to assume that exists, or that 147 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 2: there is some way to get around the fact that 148 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: it doesn't appear that we. 149 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 3: Have that it doesn't. 150 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it certainly hasn't been public that or any 151 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: glimpse to the public's knowledge of a license plate. 152 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 3: So I don't know. Maybe my bet all the money 153 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 3: in the world was a little a little quick on 154 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 3: the trigger to that end. 155 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 2: So let's unpack a little of that, because there do 156 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 2: seem to be these big ticket items that gets discussed 157 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: in the press, and we certainly have discussed this here 158 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: as well, Like these big items that make. 159 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 6: It this no question, This is the guy, there's DNA, 160 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 6: and there's this car, and he was acting fishy and 161 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 6: bushy eyebrows and and and by the way, it does 162 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 6: all sort of seem like a pretty bad day and 163 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 6: a pretty bad morning and a pretty bad stretch frankly 164 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 6: of a lot of terrible things that had to happen 165 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 6: in the worst of timing for this accused Brian Coburger 166 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 6: to ultimately be accused of this crime. And then when 167 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 6: you take a step back, there are a lot of 168 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 6: these touch points that are like, what are the odds 169 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 6: of that happening? 170 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 2: Number one? Having all of these images of this car 171 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 2: in and around the area, but no actual idea of 172 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: who's driving it or the license plate. I feel like 173 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 2: if I roll through a red light, not that I 174 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 2: ever have, I guarantee you that there's a ticket in 175 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 2: my mailbox waiting for me somehow. So big brother is 176 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: watching just not that morning, and then we talk about 177 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: this bushy eyebrow id but like, really, is is that. 178 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 3: The big thing? 179 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: So a question we did get speaking of all the 180 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: quote coincidences had to do with a shooting that happened 181 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: on the morning that Brian Coberger and his father departed 182 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: Washington to head on their cross country drive to Pennsylvania. 183 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: And the question comes from Amy from Warwick, Rhode Island. 184 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: Is there a connection between the swat shooting of Brent 185 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: Kopaka related to the Idaho massacre. 186 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't appear that there is, and we 187 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: have gone down this rabbit hole. It is shocking to 188 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 2: me that something that is violent, like holding somebody hostage, 189 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: let alone holding your roommate hostage, happening in and around 190 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 2: the time of these violent murders. But again, it does 191 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 2: seem as though that may have just been a coincidence. 192 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: It does, and for listeners who aren't aware, this incident 193 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: happened on December fifteenth, twenty twenty two, so it was 194 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: about one month after the November thirteenth murders. A man 195 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: named Brent Kopaka was ultimately shot by Washington State Police 196 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: in Pullman, Washington, where the accused Brian Coburger lived, and 197 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: that's where people burned up the connection. Officers were alerted 198 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: that Kopaka was allegedly threatening the lives of his roommates. 199 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: There was a standoff, and according to reports, there were 200 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: unsuccessful negotiations, there was escalating behavior that ultimately ended in 201 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: the swat team killing Kopaka. This happened to happen on 202 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: that same morning of the drive, and in fact, when 203 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: the Coburger men were pulled over, Brian Coberger's father mentioned 204 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: the incident. Can hear it on the audio to one 205 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: of the officers. 206 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 2: Can you imagine? I can't. Can you imagine that you're 207 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 2: this father, You're getting pulled over and you're basically saying, wow, 208 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 2: I feel for you. Officers. A lot going on back there. 209 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 2: You're in a white a Landra and you're allegedly driving 210 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 2: the accused to be. But the police just happened to 211 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 2: pull the Coburger father son duo in this white car 212 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 2: driving across country. What are the odds that they get 213 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 2: pulled over two different times? That's been reported about so 214 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 2: many different ways here included. We were under the impression 215 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 2: because that's what we were told. We had early reported 216 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 2: that that was a very choreographed event that Brian Coberg 217 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 2: was being pulled over because the police were looking to 218 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 2: see if he had slashes on his hand, And now 219 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 2: we're hearing that that might not have been the case, 220 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: that it was just a really bad day behind the wheel. 221 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: It seems like it really was artis this is to 222 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: swallow coincidence. It has since come to bear and hold on. 223 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: I have actually from the report here. The FBI has 224 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: maintained its agents were not involved in the stops, and 225 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: also the Sheriff's office in Indiana, who actually did the stops, 226 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: also have said publicly that this had nothing to do 227 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: with the murders whatsoever. It was a separate drug interdiction check. Yes, 228 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: it's been confirmed by both the agencies that the FBI 229 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: did not call for those stops. 230 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 3: They did not know what was going to happen. It 231 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 3: was literally coincidence. 232 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: And it was coincidence that on the same day that 233 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 2: Dad and son depart on their cross country escapade of 234 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 2: a trip, that there is also a hostage situation that 235 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 2: a nearby neighbor is shot down by authorities because he's 236 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 2: holding his roommate hostage, was suffering from mental illness, and 237 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 2: has many many layers to this story. 238 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: All officials have said there is no connection, and in fact, 239 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: this is a really it's a good example of a 240 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: horrible thing which is when people do make connections because 241 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: of circumstance or because of coincidence when indeed there isn't 242 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: And actually Coopaka's family has spoken out, as have his 243 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: good friends, you know, saying that the speculation of his 244 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: involvement with the murders has marred his name. 245 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 3: And he was a vet, he earned a purple heart. 246 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: And it's just a tragedy in and of itself, and 247 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: it's a further tragedy of what can happen when people 248 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: are linked, whether in the news or via social media, 249 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: without factual merit. 250 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 251 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 3: a moment. 252 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 5: This is from Marcella via Instagram. Do you think if 253 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 5: Brian had left his phone at home he would have 254 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 5: been arrested? Could the DNA and surveillance of his vehicle 255 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 5: have been enough? 256 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 2: Court, you got to take this one. This is a 257 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 2: rabbit hole that I may never get out of. It's 258 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 2: an excellent question, and it's. 259 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: A much debated question, and it's ultimately an opinion. Right, 260 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: So the DNA, and this is just my opinion. The 261 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: DNA is what tied Coberger to this investigation by his 262 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: name through his father. Once the DNA on the knife 263 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: sheath was found, and according to court documents, Coburger's DNA 264 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: is at least five point three seven octillion times more 265 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: likely to match DNA found at the scene than a 266 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: person unrelated to Coburger's father. So those are pretty strong 267 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: odds to overcome. 268 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: Those numbers are shocking, of course, and we read that 269 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: for the first time it was like, Oh, I guess 270 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: this guy did it. However, listen, some of this stuff 271 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: can be explained away. I know we covered this at 272 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 2: some point this season, But imagine that you're a knife 273 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 2: enthusiast when you go to these like a convention for 274 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 2: people who are fishermen and hunters, and there's a lot 275 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 2: of knives for sale there, and they're on display, and 276 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 2: you might be looking at the various knives for purchase, 277 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 2: and yeah, you want to pick it up, maybe handle 278 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: it a little bit, and in doing so, hey, guess what, 279 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: It's possible that a droplet of your DNA is now 280 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: under the sheath of that knife. And now you put 281 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 2: it back down, and this person goes about their merry way, 282 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: and that knife eventually gets sold to someone and it 283 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 2: winds up at a murder scene. That could be the connection. 284 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 2: It's such a small amount on the other side of it. 285 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: That is no question that the DNA that is found 286 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 2: on that she is connected to the accused Brian Coburger. 287 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 2: That's pretty damning. 288 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I think these are all points that 289 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: will be brought up by the defense if I had 290 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 1: to guess, because you. 291 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 3: Know they are valid. 292 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: But yeah, just to simply answer your question, Marcella, yeah, 293 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: I do. I do think that and the surveillance of 294 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: his vehicle would have been enough. Because the last thing 295 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: I will say on this, because you said, you know 296 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: what if we took the cell phone pings out of it, 297 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: keep in mind that during the time of the murders, 298 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: as we understand it, there was no reporting to the 299 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: network from Coburger's phone. His phone was turned off or 300 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: was somehow unavailable, whether it was under a rock or somehow. 301 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: It stopped pinging off of any cell phone towers at 302 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: two forty seven am, and then it did not go 303 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: back to being received by cell phone towers until four 304 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: forty eight. So in a way, there are no pings 305 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:06,479 Speaker 1: at that time. 306 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 2: What a coincidence, right, That would be hard to throw 307 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 2: under the coincidence box. I mean, I guess that's what 308 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 2: is so interesting about this case. Yes, while some of 309 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 2: these pieces of the puzzle do in fact seem circumstantial 310 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 2: when when looked at individually, I guess that's the whole point, 311 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 2: right You dump them all in a bag and you're like, 312 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 2: that's a lot of circumstantial evidence in one bag. 313 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 5: We do have a follow up question from Marcella. She 314 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 5: unfortunately couldn't join us today, but her follow up question is, 315 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 5: I believe the killer was watching the house before he entered. 316 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 5: Do you think he entered the house after the food 317 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 5: was delivered in hopes that they would pin it on 318 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 5: the food delivery driver. 319 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 2: Great question, by the way, I mean we have discussed this, 320 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 2: we really have. The difference is though here you would 321 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 2: have to be predicting that food would be ordered and 322 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 2: therefore delivered at a certain time to ping it on 323 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 2: the guy, unless they always received food at the same time, 324 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 2: which is not untotally unheard of. I would imagine in 325 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 2: a college party house when you're out kind of late, 326 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 2: but it's sort of a leap. That would be a 327 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: lot of premeditation. Or maybe the person who committed this 328 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 2: crime just went forward after they saw there was somebody 329 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 2: exiting and entering the house. 330 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 5: And next up is another listener question. Here's Maya from Colorado. 331 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 7: So my question is, like, let's say they ordered it 332 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 7: from Uber Eats. If he is an Uber Eats driver, 333 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 7: which I don't know what if he is, he would 334 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 7: get a notification that at that address they ordered food, 335 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 7: so he could be aware that they ordered food and 336 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 7: that it was going to be arriving at so and 337 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 7: so time. 338 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: It seems like for that to be the case, then 339 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: the murderer is would then have to themselves be a driver. 340 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 3: Correct. 341 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: I love that question, but I think that actually goes 342 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 1: back to the fact that there was in Coberger's case, 343 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: his phone was unresponsive to any cell phone towers. So 344 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: actually I think that because of that reason that that 345 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: couldn't be the case. 346 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 5: David from Massachusetts asks via email, do you think the 347 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 5: accused committed the murders that night knowing that he was 348 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 5: going home for Thanksgiving and had a reason to make 349 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 5: a cross country road trip, thinking that might be enough 350 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 5: to make the police look a different direction. 351 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: This goes to knowing what's in someone's mind, which I 352 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: do not, but the thought of knowing that fairly soon 353 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: after a crime is committed, you will have three thousand 354 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: miles worth of distance between yourself and the crime scene. 355 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: That certainly could be something that comes into play, especially 356 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 1: the alleged is a criminology student. 357 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going out on a limb here, so to 358 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 2: take this with a grain of nothingness, But yes, of 359 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 2: course he was going home for the holidays, and that 360 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 2: there would be a break, and that that was a 361 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 2: kind of a nice way to exit the worst situation ever. 362 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 2: I always thought it was slightly interesting that his birthday 363 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 2: is a week later than the murders, so he would 364 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 2: be turning twenty nine in one week. So you commit 365 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 2: a murder of four, hop in a car with your dad, 366 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 2: drive across country, get pulled over twice, and then go 367 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 2: home to your mom, who's cooking for you and maybe 368 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 2: preparing for your birthday celebration as you're oddly unpacking any 369 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 2: evidence from your car allegedly and putting things into baggies 370 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 2: because you're wearing plastic gloves. I don't know. It's just 371 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 2: so wild it seems impossible, but or does it. 372 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 5: It's a follow up question, why did he coburger let 373 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 5: one roommate live after she had seen him? And the 374 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 5: murders were so violent and seemed so personal that the 375 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 5: accused doesn't really have any connection to the victims. Why 376 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 5: do you think that he made them look so violent? 377 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 2: Well, I think I'm going to jump in real quickly 378 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 2: here because I think this is the cross section of 379 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 2: this entire case, and what is so compelling and maddening 380 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 2: about it is, yes, it feels so intimate, but yes, 381 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 2: there's no connection. And I guess that's the real look 382 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: at where we live today with social media is making 383 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: us feel so connected, not just social media. That's not 384 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 2: an attack on all things media obviously, but just we're 385 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 2: all really connected to people that we actually don't really 386 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 2: have access to. And you know, we can look at 387 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 2: that till we're blue in the face. But I think 388 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 2: that's probably what's the big stunner of this case is that, yeah, 389 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 2: these weren't people that necessarily even interface, not even once necessarily, 390 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 2: but probably had some cross section on their phones. 391 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: It's staggering, And I think you're right, Stephanie, so David 392 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: from a situate, you have your finger on the pulse 393 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: of what is so compelled at the center of this case. 394 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: And it's so hard to imagine why whomever committed these 395 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: murders allowed an eyewitness and an ear witness to remain. 396 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 3: I don't know. 397 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 2: Thank god they did right, Thank god they did underscore 398 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 2: exclamation point in bold letters, shout it from the rooftop. 399 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 2: Thank goodness, the remaining roommates were spared. It's a stunner, 400 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 2: right to. 401 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: Your point, David, that the lack of connection that both 402 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: the prosecution and the defense have stipulated for the court 403 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 1: record that previously it had been thought that there was 404 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: some stalking personally of the victims, and they have both 405 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: agreed that that was not the case. So yeah, we 406 00:23:54,359 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: will see this all come to bear. Let's stop here 407 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: for another break. We'll be back in a moment. 408 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 3: We have waded from Baltimore calling in, Hello, Wade. I 409 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 3: was wondering if you all feel that the house demolition 410 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 3: may alter the verdict. 411 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, if I'm guilty, I want that house demolished. 412 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: But if you're not guilty, wouldn't you also potentially want 413 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: it there for any shred of evidence that could be 414 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: found to exonerate you and to then implicate the person 415 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: who actually did it. 416 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 2: Yes, if I'm guilty, I want it gone because there's 417 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: no evidence to be had. But if I'm not guilty, 418 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 2: of course, yes, You're absolutely right. You want to be 419 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,479 Speaker 2: able to make sure that there could be some proof 420 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 2: and some new evidence discovered. 421 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 3: To specifically answer this. 422 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: Wead I felt different after speaking with a bunch of 423 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 1: art different experts and hearing their points of view, because 424 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: my knee jerk goes that, Okay, this has been gone over. 425 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: It has been gone over thoroughly, and there are three 426 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: D pictures and every bit of evidence has been gathered. 427 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: What on the off chance that it has not, and 428 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: that could be the one piece that seals the fate 429 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: of the case either way. So yeah, I think it 430 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: could be affected by the demolition. Over the course of 431 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: the season, we've gotten a lot of listener questions and 432 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: we appreciate all of them. And I will say one 433 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: of the most commented on episodes was about Howard Bloom's 434 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: book When the Night Comes Falling, and the questions are 435 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,239 Speaker 1: all valid, all of them are, and it was a 436 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: little bit controversial. People had different perspectives they walked away 437 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: from the episode with. 438 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 3: And I think our answer is, of course, we. 439 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: Were going to interview the person who comes out with 440 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: the book that's on the topic of what we're discussing. 441 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: It would have been odd for us, honestly, not to 442 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: is it. You know, it's a big moment in time 443 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: for the case, and we want to glean from all 444 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: perspectives and let all different avenues of information flow into 445 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: us and out to you. So that's the main thing 446 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,479 Speaker 1: I would say about it is it was a It 447 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: was a touch point in this timeline, and we thought 448 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: it was important to note it. 449 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 5: Sheila, via email has asked, I wonder if Brian Koberger 450 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 5: is listening to you. It ennerves me a bit. Have 451 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 5: you ever thought about that? 452 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 1: Well, now that unnerves me a bit too, because until 453 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: this moment I have not what a question. 454 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 2: I mean, think about it. 455 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 4: Though. 456 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: This guy is by himself in a cell in the 457 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 2: basement of the courthouse with probably not too too much 458 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: going on. It's been reported that he watches the news 459 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 2: through the bars of his cell and that he is 460 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 2: interested in the coverage. No, I don't like it, but 461 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 2: I will say this if they accused Brian Coburger, if 462 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 2: he has a burning listener question, we would like to 463 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 2: hear it. 464 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 5: Last question, since it's the end of the season, is 465 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 5: there anything else you guys want to say? Any last 466 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 5: thoughts for the listeners? 467 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 2: I would say, sometimes our contributors become a part of 468 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 2: the headlines themselves because what they're reporting on catches wind 469 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 2: in the media. And it's worth noting that we get 470 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: every single thing legally vetted by First Amendment right lawyers, 471 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 2: So we have to take a lot of stuff out. 472 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 2: You'd be shocked about all the things that we can air, 473 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 2: because look, we don't want to accuse anybody of murder. 474 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 2: We don't want to interrupt a police investigation, and we 475 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 2: don't want to get it wrong. So the spirit of 476 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 2: this has been to curate information because there's been so 477 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,479 Speaker 2: much misinformation. The big ticket items, not only this season, 478 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 2: but just seemingly in the case in general, is the 479 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 2: vehicle and then the fact that he's not IDD in 480 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 2: the vehicle DNA evidence. Hard to explain that away, except 481 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 2: it's so little DNA evidence. Does that make that hard 482 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 2: to stick? And then there's odd, creepy, weird behavior. We've 483 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 2: heard all of those words. Those are not our words. 484 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 2: That's what we've been told. Does having an odd personality 485 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 2: make you a killer? Of course not. We really just 486 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 2: do not know. And I think the roommates, the first responders, 487 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 2: the friends that had to call nine to one one. 488 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 2: Those are big pieces of the puzzle, and we just 489 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,479 Speaker 2: don't have the answers, and we respect their privacy, and 490 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 2: we know quite obviously why authorities are keeping that information 491 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 2: very close to the vest they have to. There's been 492 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 2: so much back and forth about sharing of evidence in 493 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 2: the defense saying that the prosecution is holding back evidence, 494 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 2: and you know, look, we just saw that not too 495 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: too long ago with the Alec Baldwin trial. Suddenly it 496 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 2: appeared that the prosecution was holding onto something that was 497 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 2: really relevant. Again, different cases. I'm not making any comparison 498 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 2: and just simply this evidence piece of it, right, It's 499 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 2: kind of an interesting nuance to this whole thing. And 500 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 2: I think that's what's also really both scary and really 501 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 2: interesting about this case. We've talked to so many people. 502 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 2: When you're in front of one person, you're like, that 503 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 2: totally makes sense, and then the next person's like, well, 504 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 2: Devil's advocate, and I'm like, good point, that makes sense, 505 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 2: Like there's a three sixty about good points. So I 506 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 2: guess it depends where you really want to throw your 507 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 2: heart into it. But our hearts are not the thing 508 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 2: that are supposed to keep the justice wheel moving it's 509 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 2: supposed to be facts, and in this case it's it's 510 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 2: pretty plentiful on both sides. I'm more confused than ever. 511 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,959 Speaker 1: I think part of our collective goal in this season 512 00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: of the podcast was, it's a very specific moment time. 513 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: The arrest has been made of the one suspect in 514 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: the case that happened a while ago. The trial has 515 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: not yet begun, However, there has been so much, so 516 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: many facts, so many feelings, and we wanted to kind 517 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: of give that three p sixty view of what are 518 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: the touchstones of what's going on now, what is the 519 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: importance of these pre trial motions, and so it was really, 520 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: I think for us, a really specific look at a 521 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: specific moment in time and to try and responsibly gather 522 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: and present to you the information that exists to the 523 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: best of our ability. The trial is slated to happen 524 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: next summer, that summer twenty twenty five, and we will 525 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: be keeping very close tabs on everything going on in 526 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: the meantime. As new information arises, we will be back 527 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: with new episodes and greatly look forward to the time. 528 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 2: And also to listeners who have reached out with information 529 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 2: and tips so interesting and helpful and we really do 530 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 2: try to address all of them, so please keep it coming. 531 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 2: And I want to make sure that we touch on 532 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 2: the point that because oftentimes we're always talking about the 533 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,239 Speaker 2: case and the forensics and unpacking the legal process and 534 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,719 Speaker 2: looking at jurisdictions, and our goal is to unpack and 535 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 2: offer all sides, and sometimes we could lose the reality 536 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 2: of the four victims that we're talking about and Xanna, Madison, 537 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 2: Ethan and Kayley. We just really want to make sure 538 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 2: that anybody listening ourselves included, that we're all taking a 539 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 2: moment to send healing thoughts to their families and to 540 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 2: know that we are fighting with them alongside in our hearts, 541 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 2: and that the goal to find justice is one that 542 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 2: we all share. To make sure that everyone knows that collectively, 543 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 2: we're all interested in them and want them to feel supported. 544 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: For more information on the case and relevant photos, follow 545 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Kat Underscore Studios. The Idaho Masker 546 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: is produced by Stephanie Leideger, Gabriel Castillo, and me Courtney Armstrong. 547 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,479 Speaker 1: Editing and sound design by Jeff Trois, music by Jared Aston. 548 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: The Idaho Masker is a production of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio. 549 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: For more podcasts like this, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 550 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.